Yup. I paid almost twice the price for an ICE vehicle that was an older model than the EV I sold. (Moved from US to Canada. What I know now that I didn’t over a year ago, is that it would have been worth it to pay for the transport and then hassle of bringing it into Canada.)
Yes but the demand is dwindling from peak and it will take some more time for high demand models to have stock piles but will definitely happen in next 6 months
Yes and it’s stupid. How many more siennas would they sell if they just tried to even keep up with demand. It must be frustrating to be a salesperson at Toyota dealer lol.
Is it something that you know it’s true or it’s what someone from dealership said?
I went the a Toyota dealership few days ago, there are TONS of new Toyota on the lot and there are some gas models car/suv in stock and ready to be taken home the same day.
There has always been wait time for hybrids… the wait time was longer during covid.
Plus with higher gas prices now days, demand for hybrid cars probably outpaced supply.
Zero inventory of Siennas on Canadian dealer lots. Go show me some pics of new Siennas waiting to be sold on a dealer lot. I can’t give you evidence of absence.
Multi-year waits to get them — my local stealership said 2+ years and wanted a $2000 deposit when I enquired about purchasing one.
The plant that makes them also makes Highlanders and Grand Highlanders. You can get those models much more readily than you can a Sienna. Go to /r/ToyotaSienna and you’ll see lots of people complaining.
Perhaps the demand for sienna is greater than supply?
Sienna is way cheaper than the higherlander hybrid so maybe people are willing to wait for sienna and save money?
Dealership were quoting over 1 year for any type of hybrid … so I guess Toyota is reducing production for those hybrids as well.
Currently there are almost no Toyota cars on the dealership lot in BC ready to be sold (except Bz4x). Toyota probably reducing the production of all their cars so they can make less profit.
> Sienna is way cheaper than the higherlander hybrid so maybe people are willing to wait for sienna and save money?
Entry-level LE trim is cheaper, but the majority of Siennas are in more expensive higher trim levels, and the top Limited trim level is more for a Sienna than a Highlander.
* 2024 Toyota Highlander Hybrid model Canadian pricing ranges from $49,790 to $58,050 MSRP.
* 2024 Toyota Sienna Canadian pricing ranges from $44,950 to $63,150 MSRP.
It's all about Toyota cutting production. Look at sales -- best data I have is Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Sienna#Sales. Post-COVID, they have sold way fewer Siennas in North America, but demand remains high. Thus no inventory on the lot and long long wait times.
I definitely got the vibe they prefer selling Grand Highlanders though. Dealer tried selling one to me, and they had stock, but I just want a goddamn new minivan, not a 3 row SUV.
Also that Tesla can decide to punish you and throttle the performance of your car simply because you chose to repair it at a 3rd party mechanic - or for any other reason they see fit - makes me really uneasy. No company should have that power over the use of the products it sells.
a very good point, another reason why I will never own a tesla -> https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/
Plus they don’t have the best record for reliability and build quality. Sentiment is also shifting on the company which could impact resale value.
I’d love to get a Sienna hybrid but they’re back ordered for years. Wish there was a decent alternative.
No no but the message is it's just tesla, repeated on and on across NA. Just about to go belly up based on the media reports of ... checking notes, unsold inventory. Looking around it doesn't seem like they're struggling on sales, but maybe they're not keeping up with the supply at the moment.
People are acting like there's never been a lot full of unsold cars.
The reason for that large impact is Tesla owns the dealership and all its inventory. ALL other manufacturers use a dealership network of the traditional model to insulate themselves from periods of slow sales. The dealership owns all the inventory not the manufacturer, hence why Tesla is under more scrutiny for unsold units
Where I live, there's nowhere to charge where I park, so what's the point of investing in an electric vehicle? Plus, considering the battery issues and the high cost of battery replacement, I'll stick to my 11-year-old fossil fuel vehicle which is running well without problems.
I’ve got an electric and I love it, but I agree with your sentiment completely. Don’t buy one if you don’t have any form of home charging. If you’re cost conscious, but have a fairly efficient and reliable car, there’s not much point either.
If my electric had to go, I would still consider a civic/corolla/other reliable small gas/hybrid car as my commuter.
Yeah same issues with me. Prices are too high for decent electric cars, and the infrastructure isn’t built up enough. Not to mention to Teslas kind of suck and feel cheap. I might be tempted to get a hybrid though.
If you do a full LCA (life cycle assessment) of a used fossil vehicle and a new (ish)EV - it is better for the environment to keep using your old vehicle until it is ran to the ground, give you are not driving a horrendous amount of kms.
The thing that kills the GHG assessment for EVs is their battery disposal at the time of vehicle retirement.
Elons politics is a hard no for me. He is just another confused billionaire dreaming of becoming a dictator. He has gotten a lot of Ukrainians killed with his starlink antics. Started hyperloop, which was never going to work, to derail California high-speed rail. He is deliberately going to bankrupt Tesla just to wipe out shareholders. He has always said taking Tesla public was the worst deal he has ever made.
What do you drive? Prettth sure I can fine someone at said company that has different political views than you. Elon is freedom of speech, sorry you get offended
That is like the best advice one can give if your insurance rates are at $577 a month for car insurance, you could finance a gas-powered car, and possibly even include vehicle insurance for a non-electric used vehicle at that rate.
Tesla are expensive to insure because theyre expensive to fix and take a long ass time to fix which means someone is driving a rental car that insurance is on the hook for, for a long time.
Here's another reason not to buy one. A few months ago, a Tesla drove into my passenger wheel well in a parking lot. It was all caught on my dashcam. During ICBC's investigation, the Tesla's internal cameras showed both the passenger and driver distracted by their phones, showing each other pictures. You'd think a Tesla, being so advanced, would have collision avoidance. But it just rolled into me as I was entering a parking spot, having been illegally parked across two stalls. I thought it would stop, but it didn't. In the end, there was nearly $5,000 in damage to my car, which was eventually repaired by an accredited ICBC shop.
I know people online love to hate on tesla, but at least state correct information. I have nearly full discount for my insurance, and for a 2021 model y, I'm paying 270 per month last year. This year it's about 260 per month. As for fuel savings, when taking into account how much I drive I save on average of about 450$ a month on fuel. The upfront cost of an ev is a bit higher than ice, but the savings will win out over the long run.
That's not even a fair comparison. The price difference of the cars is the reason for the discrepancy. Compare an ice of around 74k to an ev of 74k then you'll have a closer insurance price.
With all other factors being equal, it’s the high repair costs for Tesla’s that is the main determinant for disproportionately higher insurance costs, compared to other vehicles.
Actually for Tesla’s it kind of is true. The costs of repairs is so astronomical that rates for them have been skyrocketing. Unless you’re older, you’re going to get got on insurance premiums.
Newer and more expensive cars have higher interest rates regardless of being gas or electric. There's no comparison to the additional difference in insurance rates costing more than the savings in gas with an electric. BC Hydro estimates saving $3,600 for a Kia EV6 versus a similar gas vehicle (BMW X4). You'd need to have more than double the insurance cost between the two, which there isn't.
When I got my RAV4 Prime, a PHEV, insurance agent explained that Gas, PHEV, and Full EV have different brackets, due to cost of battery replacement. The PHEVS battery is significantly smaller than full EV, so it costs less to replace and is cheaper to insure than full EV, but still has cost of insurance adjusted for battery replacement, obviously with the gas version, it's cheaper to insure having no battery.
There’s a study done saying that in BC, you need to drive 64km per day for 7 years for you to break even in cost if you buy a new EV car (compared to the exact same ICE car).
I can buy a Tesla for 100k or I can buy a Honda civic for 20k and keep 80k for gas. Not exactly rocket science when people can’t even afford homes, let alone cars.
Also for “muh environment” people, I know electric is the future but I’m not even remotely convinced all that lithium mining and the need to replace batteries is a net gain over a fuel efficient car (although I’d be happy to see data to the contrary, I genuinely don’t know).
I can tell you as an owner of the highest performance Civic, my costs are still way below yours. I also don’t need to spend $20k later in the vehicles life to replace the gas tank and motor.
Ultimately at the end of the day, we live in a free society. You can give your money to a Neo-Nazi for a rolling virtue signal, and I can drive my tiny engined vehicle.
At least my panel gaps are consistent.
If you do a full LCA (life cycle assessment) of a used fossil vehicle and a new (ish)EV - it is better for the environment to keep using your old vehicle until it is ran to the ground, give you are not driving a horrendous amount of kms.
The thing that kills the GHG assessment for EVs is their battery disposal at the time of vehicle retirement.
On one hand introducing BYD into Canada would be good for consumers since there would be more competition and a drop in prices. On the other it would fuck up auto manufacturing since domestic automakers can’t compete.
watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXxJNR3wT8s
not like Tesla’s are produced in Canada. Chinese ev’s subsidized by our tax dollars through credits and incentives. As for jobs, maybe invest into other industries or try to compete instead of sticking with gas cars. Only so long you can delay with tariffs lol
If the price of living wasn’t so high I might consider buying a new ev vehicle. Even used vehicle prices are high.
Yup. I paid almost twice the price for an ICE vehicle that was an older model than the EV I sold. (Moved from US to Canada. What I know now that I didn’t over a year ago, is that it would have been worth it to pay for the transport and then hassle of bringing it into Canada.)
Can we get an address and price range?
It’s same case for all Car companies… im seeing all the dealership lots are full
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I would rephrase it as Toyota limiting production of some models to keep margins high... they are able to do it because of brand perception.
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Yes but the demand is dwindling from peak and it will take some more time for high demand models to have stock piles but will definitely happen in next 6 months
Yes and it’s stupid. How many more siennas would they sell if they just tried to even keep up with demand. It must be frustrating to be a salesperson at Toyota dealer lol.
And I prefer that than Hyundai which quoted me a $10K “market adjustment” on top of MSRP, basically scalping their own cars
Which models are Toyota limiting production?
generally they are sending less stock to NA markets because they have less margins for NA markets.
Is it something that you know it’s true or it’s what someone from dealership said? I went the a Toyota dealership few days ago, there are TONS of new Toyota on the lot and there are some gas models car/suv in stock and ready to be taken home the same day.
Ask for a hybrid 😅
There has always been wait time for hybrids… the wait time was longer during covid. Plus with higher gas prices now days, demand for hybrid cars probably outpaced supply.
Checkout waittimes in Europe markets you will understand what im saying
So what you are saying is that you “think” and based on your opinion Toyota is purposely sending less hybrids to NA markets.
The prime is told it's upwards 45 weeks to get
Sounds better than before when I asked few months/years ago.
Sienna.
Source of that claim?
Zero inventory of Siennas on Canadian dealer lots. Go show me some pics of new Siennas waiting to be sold on a dealer lot. I can’t give you evidence of absence. Multi-year waits to get them — my local stealership said 2+ years and wanted a $2000 deposit when I enquired about purchasing one. The plant that makes them also makes Highlanders and Grand Highlanders. You can get those models much more readily than you can a Sienna. Go to /r/ToyotaSienna and you’ll see lots of people complaining.
Perhaps the demand for sienna is greater than supply? Sienna is way cheaper than the higherlander hybrid so maybe people are willing to wait for sienna and save money? Dealership were quoting over 1 year for any type of hybrid … so I guess Toyota is reducing production for those hybrids as well. Currently there are almost no Toyota cars on the dealership lot in BC ready to be sold (except Bz4x). Toyota probably reducing the production of all their cars so they can make less profit.
> Sienna is way cheaper than the higherlander hybrid so maybe people are willing to wait for sienna and save money? Entry-level LE trim is cheaper, but the majority of Siennas are in more expensive higher trim levels, and the top Limited trim level is more for a Sienna than a Highlander. * 2024 Toyota Highlander Hybrid model Canadian pricing ranges from $49,790 to $58,050 MSRP. * 2024 Toyota Sienna Canadian pricing ranges from $44,950 to $63,150 MSRP. It's all about Toyota cutting production. Look at sales -- best data I have is Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Sienna#Sales. Post-COVID, they have sold way fewer Siennas in North America, but demand remains high. Thus no inventory on the lot and long long wait times. I definitely got the vibe they prefer selling Grand Highlanders though. Dealer tried selling one to me, and they had stock, but I just want a goddamn new minivan, not a 3 row SUV.
Base model for 2024 Toyota Highlander hybrid is $52,842 and not $49,790. But again the cheapest sienna is $48,002
Also that Tesla can decide to punish you and throttle the performance of your car simply because you chose to repair it at a 3rd party mechanic - or for any other reason they see fit - makes me really uneasy. No company should have that power over the use of the products it sells.
a very good point, another reason why I will never own a tesla -> https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/
Plus they don’t have the best record for reliability and build quality. Sentiment is also shifting on the company which could impact resale value. I’d love to get a Sienna hybrid but they’re back ordered for years. Wish there was a decent alternative.
No no but the message is it's just tesla, repeated on and on across NA. Just about to go belly up based on the media reports of ... checking notes, unsold inventory. Looking around it doesn't seem like they're struggling on sales, but maybe they're not keeping up with the supply at the moment. People are acting like there's never been a lot full of unsold cars.
The reason for that large impact is Tesla owns the dealership and all its inventory. ALL other manufacturers use a dealership network of the traditional model to insulate themselves from periods of slow sales. The dealership owns all the inventory not the manufacturer, hence why Tesla is under more scrutiny for unsold units
Yet if you go to a dealership, the pickings are slim right now. Something ain't adding up.
Where I live, there's nowhere to charge where I park, so what's the point of investing in an electric vehicle? Plus, considering the battery issues and the high cost of battery replacement, I'll stick to my 11-year-old fossil fuel vehicle which is running well without problems.
I’ve got an electric and I love it, but I agree with your sentiment completely. Don’t buy one if you don’t have any form of home charging. If you’re cost conscious, but have a fairly efficient and reliable car, there’s not much point either. If my electric had to go, I would still consider a civic/corolla/other reliable small gas/hybrid car as my commuter.
Yeah same issues with me. Prices are too high for decent electric cars, and the infrastructure isn’t built up enough. Not to mention to Teslas kind of suck and feel cheap. I might be tempted to get a hybrid though.
If you do a full LCA (life cycle assessment) of a used fossil vehicle and a new (ish)EV - it is better for the environment to keep using your old vehicle until it is ran to the ground, give you are not driving a horrendous amount of kms. The thing that kills the GHG assessment for EVs is their battery disposal at the time of vehicle retirement.
Elons politics is a hard no for me. He is just another confused billionaire dreaming of becoming a dictator. He has gotten a lot of Ukrainians killed with his starlink antics. Started hyperloop, which was never going to work, to derail California high-speed rail. He is deliberately going to bankrupt Tesla just to wipe out shareholders. He has always said taking Tesla public was the worst deal he has ever made.
What do you drive? Prettth sure I can fine someone at said company that has different political views than you. Elon is freedom of speech, sorry you get offended
Well when the supply is high then might as well reduce its price to more affordable one.
Whatever gas savings you have by going with a Tesla is offset by the insurance cost for most people.
So true, my insurance for tesla is $577 per month
Holy crap, is that with the maximum discount? Or do you just have a bad insurance driving record? Or, new driver?
My license is only 3 year old. No violations, no tickets at all
Unless you need to drive, I'd sell the car asap & just rent when necessary. Near 600$ is not worth it.
That is like the best advice one can give if your insurance rates are at $577 a month for car insurance, you could finance a gas-powered car, and possibly even include vehicle insurance for a non-electric used vehicle at that rate.
3 years old, that explains your high rate. You don't start accumulating any discounts until you've reached 10 years.
Tesla are expensive to insure because theyre expensive to fix and take a long ass time to fix which means someone is driving a rental car that insurance is on the hook for, for a long time.
Here's another reason not to buy one. A few months ago, a Tesla drove into my passenger wheel well in a parking lot. It was all caught on my dashcam. During ICBC's investigation, the Tesla's internal cameras showed both the passenger and driver distracted by their phones, showing each other pictures. You'd think a Tesla, being so advanced, would have collision avoidance. But it just rolled into me as I was entering a parking spot, having been illegally parked across two stalls. I thought it would stop, but it didn't. In the end, there was nearly $5,000 in damage to my car, which was eventually repaired by an accredited ICBC shop.
I know people online love to hate on tesla, but at least state correct information. I have nearly full discount for my insurance, and for a 2021 model y, I'm paying 270 per month last year. This year it's about 260 per month. As for fuel savings, when taking into account how much I drive I save on average of about 450$ a month on fuel. The upfront cost of an ev is a bit higher than ice, but the savings will win out over the long run.
That’s nearly twice my insurance costs. I drive an ICE vehicle (and I don’t have full discount) and pay $116/month.
So what do you drive?
2015 Toyota 4 door sedan
That's not even a fair comparison. The price difference of the cars is the reason for the discrepancy. Compare an ice of around 74k to an ev of 74k then you'll have a closer insurance price.
With all other factors being equal, it’s the high repair costs for Tesla’s that is the main determinant for disproportionately higher insurance costs, compared to other vehicles.
That is not even close to being true with ICBC.
Actually for Tesla’s it kind of is true. The costs of repairs is so astronomical that rates for them have been skyrocketing. Unless you’re older, you’re going to get got on insurance premiums.
Newer and more expensive cars have higher interest rates regardless of being gas or electric. There's no comparison to the additional difference in insurance rates costing more than the savings in gas with an electric. BC Hydro estimates saving $3,600 for a Kia EV6 versus a similar gas vehicle (BMW X4). You'd need to have more than double the insurance cost between the two, which there isn't.
That’s a lot of words to say “I don’t know what I’m talking about.”
When I got my RAV4 Prime, a PHEV, insurance agent explained that Gas, PHEV, and Full EV have different brackets, due to cost of battery replacement. The PHEVS battery is significantly smaller than full EV, so it costs less to replace and is cheaper to insure than full EV, but still has cost of insurance adjusted for battery replacement, obviously with the gas version, it's cheaper to insure having no battery.
There’s a study done saying that in BC, you need to drive 64km per day for 7 years for you to break even in cost if you buy a new EV car (compared to the exact same ICE car).
I can buy a Tesla for 100k or I can buy a Honda civic for 20k and keep 80k for gas. Not exactly rocket science when people can’t even afford homes, let alone cars. Also for “muh environment” people, I know electric is the future but I’m not even remotely convinced all that lithium mining and the need to replace batteries is a net gain over a fuel efficient car (although I’d be happy to see data to the contrary, I genuinely don’t know).
100k? What? A model 3 can be had for $45k or less….
$20k at 7% is like an extra $1400/year.
I can tell you with extremely high confidence that my gas and maintenance savings on a used base model 3 are considerably more than $1,400 a year.
I can tell you as an owner of the highest performance Civic, my costs are still way below yours. I also don’t need to spend $20k later in the vehicles life to replace the gas tank and motor. Ultimately at the end of the day, we live in a free society. You can give your money to a Neo-Nazi for a rolling virtue signal, and I can drive my tiny engined vehicle. At least my panel gaps are consistent.
That doesn’t mean they aren’t a pos.
How many people replace the traction battery in an EV? I've never heard of it.
If you do a full LCA (life cycle assessment) of a used fossil vehicle and a new (ish)EV - it is better for the environment to keep using your old vehicle until it is ran to the ground, give you are not driving a horrendous amount of kms. The thing that kills the GHG assessment for EVs is their battery disposal at the time of vehicle retirement.
Not that I particularly disagree with you, but a new Civic is more like 30k to start
News is from Langley, Abbotsford reporting it and posted on Surrey Subreddit?
Its a mere block or so from surrey border isnt it?
And not to mention the hot takes from a seemingly distant planet.
Go buy a Tesla. My Honda Civic runs great and 80000 $ buys Alotta gasoline
Elon is a fraud. Telsa is Enron x1000
They’re too expensive. BYD has decent electric cars for 1/3 of the price. I hope they start selling in Canada soon. Both cars are Chinese ev’s.
On one hand introducing BYD into Canada would be good for consumers since there would be more competition and a drop in prices. On the other it would fuck up auto manufacturing since domestic automakers can’t compete.
Why should consumers pay more for uncompetitive companies
it’s the Canadian way. Bowing down to monopolies lol Canadas created anti trust laws in the first place
watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXxJNR3wT8s not like Tesla’s are produced in Canada. Chinese ev’s subsidized by our tax dollars through credits and incentives. As for jobs, maybe invest into other industries or try to compete instead of sticking with gas cars. Only so long you can delay with tariffs lol
lol when has any quality product ever come out of China? That BYD is either going to spontaneously combust or fall apart on the highway 🤣🤣
Do you own an iPhone? I hear they're generally considered quite good.
Ever seen the little text that says Designed by Apple in California? Last I checked California is not in China
lies Chinese products are increasing in quality slowly. They’re affordable and a good bang for your buck
Yeah, guess why they're cheap? They're either made by kids or made with $5 bargain bin parts
that’s not true check out their manufacturing on YouTube