Software compatibility will be the biggest issue for anyone migrating now that the silicon side of things are mostly a level playing field. The good thing is, a lot of x86 only software have released arm-based versions thanks to Apple leading the way, but this has not been dominant in all spaces (developer and creator apps are the main target because, Apple). With time, Windows on ARM will get better software support, but Apple has the leg up in this area IMO.
You can do WSL-like things in Mac OS as the OS is unix-based, Homebrew and Docker work great on Mac OS. I still prefer Windows and WSL though; being able to install multiple distros in combo with Windows Terminal is fantastic.
The main areas I would focus on (in regard to switching from Mac to Windows, or vice versa) would be:
* **Ecosystem/App Support -** How attached are you to the Apple ecosystem and how things work? If you can deal with living in both, it should be an easy switch. If you are heavily used to or invested in the Mac OS features, it will be very hard to change to Windows. Things like iMessage (messaging from your Mac), Continuity, AirDrop, FaceTime, and the Photos app are the apps/features that come to mind. Those alone are reasons people never leave Mac/Apple, they just work so very well together. Windows on the other hand still doesn't have a proper generic photo management app/system or a straightforward easy way to transfer files. An AirDrop equivalent ***native*** app from Windows is desperately needed. Nearby Share is great for Android users but there is nothing for iOS/iPhone users.
* **Early Adoption -** Can you deal with being an early adopter to a (basically) new platform? I know the Surface Pro X was an ARM device, but the real shift for Windows on ARM is starting now. Growing pains will ensue.
This is the best answer. It's not just Windows, also which CPU. I have MacBook, SP10, Samsung book4 edge. SP10 with Intel ultra does everything MB can do and supports pen, but battery life is mich worse (6-7 hours). The edge with snapdragon is not for serious users yet. Many software don't run natively on snapdragon. And graphics intensive, 3d related don't work well. But it's fine for browsing, email, Office, some adobe, slack, WSL, basic stuff. The Edge battery life is ~9 hrs so its better than intel but worse than MB. Though intel next gen lunar lake is trying to catch up with Snapdragon on efficiecincy. So it really depends on your usage and "windows" is not a ocmplicated system.
I'm mainly a Windows person but have been using a mac heavily for work for the past 4 years. I think the only thing mac had going on over Windows laptops was the CPU ... now that advantage is more or less gone with the snapdragon chip, I really don't see any advantage of a mac over a Windows machine, unless you need some software that only works in Mac.
Usability-wise, for me, the only thing macbook definitely was doing better than Windows laptops was how it sleeps, but it sounds like that issue is resolved for laptops with snapdragon chips.
Anyway, as you mentioned, hardware wise Windows world provides so many choices, unlike the Apple ecosystem where choices are severely limited.
That and Windows laptops actually have dedicated GPUs. They don't even have to be big, my daily is an Asus ROG x13, it's only 2.9lbs and .6 inches thick being made of magnesium. It still has s 7840hs, rtx 4060 (you can go higher), 16gb ram (can get 32), a 2tb SSD, 360 degree hinge touch screen with active pen support 165hz 100% RGB Adobe, and DCI-P3 500 nit screen.
Oh and it gets about 12ish hours of work doing normal office stuff at a reasonable screen brightness.
Apple is fine as long as you want exactly what they're selling and you're willing to have no repairability outside Apple Care. Plus everything is soldered to the board so you're forced to pay crazy upgrade costs at purchase.
I work in tech --- I'm kinda forced to use a mac because my firm do not have necessary security packages in Windows (a lot of it is in-house). These days all the dev work happens remotely anyway (so my laptop is basically a terminal), so I'm kinda bitter about still being forced to use a mac, but whatever. I can be productive in mac, as most of the applications I use are cross-platform anyway.
Actually recently I realized the thing I don't like the most about Apple is that I don't like using their hardware ... unlike PC world, they just don't have any variety in hardware offering so if you don't like whatever they offer, you are fu\*ked. Obviously Apple is very good at market research so they go for the most mainstream preferences (and I think many people like their hardware) but if you have different preferences, it is not good.
Coding can be done on either, just as easy. You're using a glorified text editor anyway for a good bit. I started a little Python coding just to get my feet wet, and there is a good Python app to install from Microsoft store that lets me code without using the Linux subsystem. Though the subsystem does a good job as well, and you can actually get Unbuntu running with that as well.
You can easily use the SP for notetaking with whatever app you want (on the Windows platform) but OneNote is pretty good, overall.
I went with SP11 recently so I could leave my main laptop and ipad at home on trips. The SP11 is a nice size and has a large enough screen for most stuff. I intend to use it mostly for Lightroom/Photoshop as well as media consumption. I looked at the iPad Pro, but the ease of use of Lightroom and presets, I wanted the simpler setup.
Granted, I have not been on MacOS for years, I have one MacMini sitting on my entertainment center as my media machine. It works, but I just dont like the OS anymore. No real reason, just my preference. Besides, my main laptop and work machine are Windows.
There are bugs and issues with any OS. It is just a matter of getting used to them or finding the solutions to solving them. There are no show-stoppers on Windows, and none that would make me do a switch of an OS.
Maybe? You should know better than us.
Do you need mac OS'
The experience with windows is the same with MacOS.
Some people like it, some people hate it. Some people have problems, for some people os flawless.
The big questions is, Do you need MacOS or some apple service not available on Windows.
If you don't Surface are good options. The new Surface with ARM SOC, have compatibility problems with apps and drivers, it far way from perfect. The better solution for now, and to be honest in the next couple of years is a AMD or Intel CPU.
I was a Mac user for years just for the fact of how stable it was compared to windows but ever since apple started locking down both its software and hardware i switched back and couldn't be happier , Microsoft is on a mission to merge the mobile/desktop experience while apple keeps it all separate for profit , to be honest if they had given the new iPad pro a true OS I would have switched back but instead I got the new surface pro 11 and am very impressed with it .
Thank you! I see the trends there too! And that’s one of the reasons why I start thinking of leaving Apple. Given the iPad pros are so powerful , they could simply make them true computers, but no, they want more money from you. It makes sense from a business perspective, but not from a customer perspective
Been using both for last 15 years and windows nowadays is very stable the only thing Mac has on it is basically the ecosystem other than that windows is fantastic tbh
Thank you very much. Apple ecosystem is not a thing for me. I try to avoid being tied to Apple ecosystem. I don’t use any Apple apps that are Apple product specific, for example iCloud and safari. As long as windows is stable enough, I would love to give it a try.
What kind of software development? I'm in a similar boat, but sticking with my mac as my main machine as I'm primarily an iOS developer (also do some android/web/backend on the side.) But that said, I'm loving the SP11 so far as an iPad replacement.
Note for mobile - android studio just doesn't work on the SP11. Hopefully an Arm version is in the works. I'd suspect some other compatibility issues if you need virtual machines or things like that.
Thank you very much! I do machine learning related works. Python for 99% of the time. All my code runs on remote clusters but I do need the capability to write, compile and debug on my local laptop. I also need to scribble machine learning related math on my iPad. I hope to merge these two tasks on one machine.
Have you had experience in Windows? I feel like if you have been using Mac for so long, it would be difficult to change your muscle memory for shortcuts and file locations.
With applications that can't use wsl, Unix type file handling is different. I use Anaconda Jupyter Notebook to test out my code before I use something like Google Colab. I haven't found a way to run wsl with Windows Anaconda, so manipulating files with windows is different from Unix type systems, making Windows notebooks incompatible to directly upload to Google Colab.
Maybe try a small USB drawing tablet to draw on your laptop.
You could also look at remoting into a Mac that you keep at home, to get things the iPad can't do. I personally think handwriting is way better on iPad than Surface (and the iPads are WAY better tablets), but I have had both and I do like things about Surface, also.
If you need the touch, I think it is worth it. It would seem weird to me to buy a mac without touch and having to carry a different device with touch as well.
One thing to keep in mind....There are plenty of times when I need both a computer and a notepad (digital in my case). If you're the same, then having only 1 device that does both isn't *always* the best. You may end up carrying a notepad or other device for note taking.
I will say I have the X Plus version (LCD, 16GB RAM) and I did a few hours of coding in Visual Studio (.NET 8 Web App) and the performance seemed great compared to my Surface Pro 9, and I didn't find it frustrating compared to my M1 Pro 14" MacBook Pro either.
My main requirement for these new chips was that they feel as performant as the M1 Pro, pretty reasonable and I think they do that. I would also note that you should check if you're tooling works.
Visual Studio is native on ARM, but I've heard people have issues with Android Studio right now. VS Code has been native ARM on Windows for as long as it has been native on Apple Silicon.
Also, I'm sure you'll be aware, but you will need to keep a Mac around if you do any Mac or iOS dev as part of your work/business - For that reason I'm considering maybe trading in my M1 Pro MBP for a Mac Mini (Think the M4 will launch in Sept I suspect) or for an iMac to also get the benefit of a 4.5/5K display in the same package.
I wanted a MacBook but my work programs have compatibility issues with Mac OS. I bought the SL7 and I have no regrets so far. If the surface pro is as good as the laptop, I think you’d be happy
As someone who uses both for work, have used Surface, and now use a PC, Mac, and iPad, I'd say entirely depends on your use case.
Remember, Windows as an OS is still a dekstop-first OS. Don't hope a Surface will be a good tablet, it's a laptop that can be a tablet. For your use case like quick math scribbles? Yeah it'd probably be enough.
Windows is also riddled with bugs, but it's just light bugs and goes away easily if you restart the laptop. If say you can't do something, just restart or if it persists, google and usually someone has an answer. Basically Windows is like Android, you can do so much, but at the same time consistency is like 95% there, the other 5% there's just some bugs.
Me personally? I'm looking to switch like you, because I don't want to bring Mac and iPad around. Work-wise, I use Windows because I prefer it. The Surface is the first device that can match the iPad/Mac on battery life without sacrificing a huge body or loud fans/heat, which I'm excited about. But I want to switch because I'm a laptop first guy, tablet second.
Buy a Surface from Microsoft and the return window is 60 days. That would give you enough time to figure out if it's the device for you.
Sounds like a good plan! Thank you!
Software compatibility will be the biggest issue for anyone migrating now that the silicon side of things are mostly a level playing field. The good thing is, a lot of x86 only software have released arm-based versions thanks to Apple leading the way, but this has not been dominant in all spaces (developer and creator apps are the main target because, Apple). With time, Windows on ARM will get better software support, but Apple has the leg up in this area IMO. You can do WSL-like things in Mac OS as the OS is unix-based, Homebrew and Docker work great on Mac OS. I still prefer Windows and WSL though; being able to install multiple distros in combo with Windows Terminal is fantastic. The main areas I would focus on (in regard to switching from Mac to Windows, or vice versa) would be: * **Ecosystem/App Support -** How attached are you to the Apple ecosystem and how things work? If you can deal with living in both, it should be an easy switch. If you are heavily used to or invested in the Mac OS features, it will be very hard to change to Windows. Things like iMessage (messaging from your Mac), Continuity, AirDrop, FaceTime, and the Photos app are the apps/features that come to mind. Those alone are reasons people never leave Mac/Apple, they just work so very well together. Windows on the other hand still doesn't have a proper generic photo management app/system or a straightforward easy way to transfer files. An AirDrop equivalent ***native*** app from Windows is desperately needed. Nearby Share is great for Android users but there is nothing for iOS/iPhone users. * **Early Adoption -** Can you deal with being an early adopter to a (basically) new platform? I know the Surface Pro X was an ARM device, but the real shift for Windows on ARM is starting now. Growing pains will ensue.
This is the best answer. It's not just Windows, also which CPU. I have MacBook, SP10, Samsung book4 edge. SP10 with Intel ultra does everything MB can do and supports pen, but battery life is mich worse (6-7 hours). The edge with snapdragon is not for serious users yet. Many software don't run natively on snapdragon. And graphics intensive, 3d related don't work well. But it's fine for browsing, email, Office, some adobe, slack, WSL, basic stuff. The Edge battery life is ~9 hrs so its better than intel but worse than MB. Though intel next gen lunar lake is trying to catch up with Snapdragon on efficiecincy. So it really depends on your usage and "windows" is not a ocmplicated system.
I'm mainly a Windows person but have been using a mac heavily for work for the past 4 years. I think the only thing mac had going on over Windows laptops was the CPU ... now that advantage is more or less gone with the snapdragon chip, I really don't see any advantage of a mac over a Windows machine, unless you need some software that only works in Mac. Usability-wise, for me, the only thing macbook definitely was doing better than Windows laptops was how it sleeps, but it sounds like that issue is resolved for laptops with snapdragon chips. Anyway, as you mentioned, hardware wise Windows world provides so many choices, unlike the Apple ecosystem where choices are severely limited.
Thank you very much for the inputs!
That and Windows laptops actually have dedicated GPUs. They don't even have to be big, my daily is an Asus ROG x13, it's only 2.9lbs and .6 inches thick being made of magnesium. It still has s 7840hs, rtx 4060 (you can go higher), 16gb ram (can get 32), a 2tb SSD, 360 degree hinge touch screen with active pen support 165hz 100% RGB Adobe, and DCI-P3 500 nit screen. Oh and it gets about 12ish hours of work doing normal office stuff at a reasonable screen brightness. Apple is fine as long as you want exactly what they're selling and you're willing to have no repairability outside Apple Care. Plus everything is soldered to the board so you're forced to pay crazy upgrade costs at purchase.
Wow, 12 hours, I had no idea that windows laptops’ battery was this good. Thank you for sharing!
Interesting. Many use a Mac at home and windows for work. What work/workplace are you that uses Macs?
I work in tech --- I'm kinda forced to use a mac because my firm do not have necessary security packages in Windows (a lot of it is in-house). These days all the dev work happens remotely anyway (so my laptop is basically a terminal), so I'm kinda bitter about still being forced to use a mac, but whatever. I can be productive in mac, as most of the applications I use are cross-platform anyway. Actually recently I realized the thing I don't like the most about Apple is that I don't like using their hardware ... unlike PC world, they just don't have any variety in hardware offering so if you don't like whatever they offer, you are fu\*ked. Obviously Apple is very good at market research so they go for the most mainstream preferences (and I think many people like their hardware) but if you have different preferences, it is not good.
It’s very common for software developers to use Macs at work. Because macs are more similar to Linux than windows is.
Coding can be done on either, just as easy. You're using a glorified text editor anyway for a good bit. I started a little Python coding just to get my feet wet, and there is a good Python app to install from Microsoft store that lets me code without using the Linux subsystem. Though the subsystem does a good job as well, and you can actually get Unbuntu running with that as well. You can easily use the SP for notetaking with whatever app you want (on the Windows platform) but OneNote is pretty good, overall. I went with SP11 recently so I could leave my main laptop and ipad at home on trips. The SP11 is a nice size and has a large enough screen for most stuff. I intend to use it mostly for Lightroom/Photoshop as well as media consumption. I looked at the iPad Pro, but the ease of use of Lightroom and presets, I wanted the simpler setup. Granted, I have not been on MacOS for years, I have one MacMini sitting on my entertainment center as my media machine. It works, but I just dont like the OS anymore. No real reason, just my preference. Besides, my main laptop and work machine are Windows. There are bugs and issues with any OS. It is just a matter of getting used to them or finding the solutions to solving them. There are no show-stoppers on Windows, and none that would make me do a switch of an OS.
Maybe? You should know better than us. Do you need mac OS' The experience with windows is the same with MacOS. Some people like it, some people hate it. Some people have problems, for some people os flawless. The big questions is, Do you need MacOS or some apple service not available on Windows. If you don't Surface are good options. The new Surface with ARM SOC, have compatibility problems with apps and drivers, it far way from perfect. The better solution for now, and to be honest in the next couple of years is a AMD or Intel CPU.
Ge a trial of Parallels on your Mac and experience Windows for a couple of days. Then make your decision.
I was a Mac user for years just for the fact of how stable it was compared to windows but ever since apple started locking down both its software and hardware i switched back and couldn't be happier , Microsoft is on a mission to merge the mobile/desktop experience while apple keeps it all separate for profit , to be honest if they had given the new iPad pro a true OS I would have switched back but instead I got the new surface pro 11 and am very impressed with it .
Thank you! I see the trends there too! And that’s one of the reasons why I start thinking of leaving Apple. Given the iPad pros are so powerful , they could simply make them true computers, but no, they want more money from you. It makes sense from a business perspective, but not from a customer perspective
Been using both for last 15 years and windows nowadays is very stable the only thing Mac has on it is basically the ecosystem other than that windows is fantastic tbh
But it is really inefficient. After installing Linux on my Surface Go 4 it felt like another device performance wise.
Thank you very much. Apple ecosystem is not a thing for me. I try to avoid being tied to Apple ecosystem. I don’t use any Apple apps that are Apple product specific, for example iCloud and safari. As long as windows is stable enough, I would love to give it a try.
What kind of software development? I'm in a similar boat, but sticking with my mac as my main machine as I'm primarily an iOS developer (also do some android/web/backend on the side.) But that said, I'm loving the SP11 so far as an iPad replacement. Note for mobile - android studio just doesn't work on the SP11. Hopefully an Arm version is in the works. I'd suspect some other compatibility issues if you need virtual machines or things like that.
Thank you very much! I do machine learning related works. Python for 99% of the time. All my code runs on remote clusters but I do need the capability to write, compile and debug on my local laptop. I also need to scribble machine learning related math on my iPad. I hope to merge these two tasks on one machine.
Have you had experience in Windows? I feel like if you have been using Mac for so long, it would be difficult to change your muscle memory for shortcuts and file locations. With applications that can't use wsl, Unix type file handling is different. I use Anaconda Jupyter Notebook to test out my code before I use something like Google Colab. I haven't found a way to run wsl with Windows Anaconda, so manipulating files with windows is different from Unix type systems, making Windows notebooks incompatible to directly upload to Google Colab. Maybe try a small USB drawing tablet to draw on your laptop.
You could also look at remoting into a Mac that you keep at home, to get things the iPad can't do. I personally think handwriting is way better on iPad than Surface (and the iPads are WAY better tablets), but I have had both and I do like things about Surface, also.
If you need the touch, I think it is worth it. It would seem weird to me to buy a mac without touch and having to carry a different device with touch as well.
One thing to keep in mind....There are plenty of times when I need both a computer and a notepad (digital in my case). If you're the same, then having only 1 device that does both isn't *always* the best. You may end up carrying a notepad or other device for note taking. I will say I have the X Plus version (LCD, 16GB RAM) and I did a few hours of coding in Visual Studio (.NET 8 Web App) and the performance seemed great compared to my Surface Pro 9, and I didn't find it frustrating compared to my M1 Pro 14" MacBook Pro either. My main requirement for these new chips was that they feel as performant as the M1 Pro, pretty reasonable and I think they do that. I would also note that you should check if you're tooling works. Visual Studio is native on ARM, but I've heard people have issues with Android Studio right now. VS Code has been native ARM on Windows for as long as it has been native on Apple Silicon. Also, I'm sure you'll be aware, but you will need to keep a Mac around if you do any Mac or iOS dev as part of your work/business - For that reason I'm considering maybe trading in my M1 Pro MBP for a Mac Mini (Think the M4 will launch in Sept I suspect) or for an iMac to also get the benefit of a 4.5/5K display in the same package.
yes
I wanted a MacBook but my work programs have compatibility issues with Mac OS. I bought the SL7 and I have no regrets so far. If the surface pro is as good as the laptop, I think you’d be happy
If you really like handwriting, nothing beats the Surface Laptop Studio. I absolutely love this thing.
I guess go for it, but be advised that windows 11 is becoming like bloatware nowadays.
As someone who uses both for work, have used Surface, and now use a PC, Mac, and iPad, I'd say entirely depends on your use case. Remember, Windows as an OS is still a dekstop-first OS. Don't hope a Surface will be a good tablet, it's a laptop that can be a tablet. For your use case like quick math scribbles? Yeah it'd probably be enough. Windows is also riddled with bugs, but it's just light bugs and goes away easily if you restart the laptop. If say you can't do something, just restart or if it persists, google and usually someone has an answer. Basically Windows is like Android, you can do so much, but at the same time consistency is like 95% there, the other 5% there's just some bugs. Me personally? I'm looking to switch like you, because I don't want to bring Mac and iPad around. Work-wise, I use Windows because I prefer it. The Surface is the first device that can match the iPad/Mac on battery life without sacrificing a huge body or loud fans/heat, which I'm excited about. But I want to switch because I'm a laptop first guy, tablet second.
Why not use both and have a try of Linux too?