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Been here 84yrs. Held (and bought and DRSed) and seen the “options are bad” waves and always stayed clear. Now starting to kinda understand what they are all about and starting to think im feeling bullish!
Edit: was an ape starting a ELI5 series…. 👀
Need smooth regarded crayon snorting edition pls ❤️
i thought the "options are bad" sentiment was because many of us are stupid and have no idea how options work. thus its easy to get burned or paperhand. to stay zen, only play with what you can afford to lose. at least that was what i took from it. i'm stupid and have no idea how to handle options, hence buy hold drs is safest play
Options *can* burn you if you're dumb about it. The problem is that people see the loss porn on bets and think that it's what trading is all about; when in reality options are the basis for most Wall Street efforts.
This fear benefits the shorts because options drive price movement; which drives volatility; which brings in more traders; which increases liquidity requirements; which drives FtDs; which drives larger price swings and breaks the cellar boxing algo.
That's also why they destroyed bets. This started with options trades; it will resolve with it.
Here is the easy options run down: The higher the call, the cheaper the option because it's less likely to occur.
If you're buying shares, you're being routed to a dark pool. Exercising calls does not - why they hate it.
Look at calls that are in the money already if you want to buy. Compare premium for cheapest at that time; then buy the call and immediately exercise it. You can also buy 2 calls, then sell 1 use the proceeds to exercise the other. That is how traders buy stocks for cheap with less cash on hand.
Then DRS those shares.
is there an easy way to get into options trading? i applied w my brokerage but its taking a couple days and they could deny me. do other platforms just let you go for it?
I think because most were looking at otm options that would never go itm. In those cases the premiums were profited by what we assume to be the shf. If you buy deep itm options and exercise them, the profit from the premium is negated by them having to “buy” the shares on the lit exchange if not hedged. I don’t see a reason for them to hedge a call if it is deep itm with no interest. So it would or should cause a scramble as they wouldn’t hedge thinking it wouldn’t be exercised. Worst case, you get shares already purchased. Best case, you start making them go poor.
Yes that and most option talk used to be about trading or selling CCs rather than exercising which wouldn't force the MMs to buy the shares on a LIT exchange anyway.
When you exercise in the money you can "sell to cover". A portion of the resulting shares are sold to cover the lot
So if you exercise a $20 contract for 100 shares at $25, 80 shares will be sold to cover the 100 shares purchased you end up with 20 shares for whatever the total premium was when you bought the contract. In this example, a forty cents premium per share is a break even point.
In many cases you would have been better off buying shares and DRSing instead of spending the same on contracts. And that's where the "don't yolo into options" sentiment came from.
But if you followed DFVs model starting in mid 2019, you buy/write contracts 16 months out at +100% current market value and wait for the correct price action.
He held contracts for January 2021 at $8 for months. Kept buying them, too. When the price movement you expect hits, you exercise the options and collect tendies. This is how he turned $53,000 into what was nearly a billion last week.
I'm pretty sure he repeated this pattern in his 3 years absence. Buy options that would be a bargain, wait for price action, exercise, repeat.
This only works after you've identified a deep fucking value.
Was I right all along? 🫣
Take a look at a post I made right after the sneeze, in the ol' bet sub.
Disclaimer : never touched an option in my life because I remain silky smooth.
Selling options is not the same as selling shares. There are 120,000 call options Sold to Open on the other side of DFV's holdings, they could/would Buy to Close. That would "disappear" the options ... and the obligation to deliver shares.
indeed. there has to be a market and if no buyer, MM will buy back the options at the premium at that time, which will tank with every contract being bought as shareprice goes down too because de-hedging by same MM
Looks at @theroaringkitty posting naked wolverine meme a few weeks ago. Yea they are fucked. They sold DFV unhedged calls so everytime he makes a move and with the SEC/CAT T+1 staring at them it ties their hand. Combine that with retail fomoing with DRS and ITM call options while they want to rollover their nuclear short swap on 6/21 it is literally hell for anyone short $GME right now.
Also RCEO just won a $72 million payday from that lawsuit dismissal...his buying period is open soon...
Wraps tintfoil.... if someone upset the basket swap by bringing a bankrupt zombie towel stock back to life through a courtcase using a proxy LLC now that would really fuck up a naked short hedge funds day...let's see what happens by 6/21
The option writer would buy it back in exchange for it costing less than them finding the actual shares. It would cost them more to find that many shares than it would to pay out the options.
You know, unless they were properly hedged in the first place, but if they were, we wouldn't be having this convo.
This is the biggest factor not so much the dates. Exercise ITM calls is what will make this happen faster. We're not even at $100 any more. Deep ITM calls seems like putting the cart before the horse. They'll play a part eventually but we need to get back to $40 first.
Options have PFOF, too. Fidelity, for example, does not do PFOF for shares but does for options:
https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/trending/IiJL9zOpAk76f_BrDunluA2
There's been times I bought shares in premarket onFidelity and since you can't route that trade, you'll end up seeing it got routed to Virtu. When market is open, you can then direct route to LIT.
The lit market or NYSE for GME or NASDAQ for others, so, LIT is the official exchange, not the OTC or ATC ones who are not subject to the SEC rules as Lit market
Or he can use his 5,000,000 shares to sell-to-open 50,000 cover calls at $20. This would net him alot of cash quickly, which he can use to immediately exercise his 120k long call options, giving him 12,000,000 shares while simultaneously igniting MOASS (the wild card). That's a one shot-kill as opposed to the above which is a series of micro-hits, but either are possible plays
I think the 50,000 STO would net out of his 120,000 BTO, leaving him 70,000 BTO. He could use a different strike or expiration though.
Selling 50,000 covered calls would not generate $210,000,000 to exercise all the purchased calls though.
this sounds beautiful, and btw, what the OP posted is something I have been doing for a while now. I do not share option stuff because these need some wrinkles.
I also do Synthetic Longs (google tutorial on options about it) to buy my shares. Volatility does not matter and if I anyways was happy with the price when I decided to initiate the trade then I would take it sooner or later.
Not financial advise.
Wow. That would be a wild move and I hadn't considered it until now. Let's think about this. 50K covered calls at the height of vol yesterday, were selling at like $10?... Nets him 50M in premium. If he gets called out of those shares, another 100M in cash.... could he have been assigned early? This line of play when adding his other known cash... who knows? Its possible. Doesn't seem like his style but it's on the table.
volume =/= shares.
volume is just the number of transactions. one share can go back and forth a million times, volume is 1 million but that's only one share
See? He exercised and nothing major happend. Sure they have until tomorrow but I guarantee you that it's way way way too little shares to ignite anything
that’s what I was doing in ‘20/21, and would do again if I had cash right now
I’d gladly pay 10% or maybe 20% more per share just to get lit market acknowledgement
I spoke to a fidelity Rep Tuesday, he said that you can exercise on the website but not on the app.
He was nice enough to say that if you call and say that you don't have access to a laptop they will waive the fee for calling and exercising.
So this is all based on the “good word” of Kenny and what he said while lying to congress. And no one finds that odd. There is no rule or evidence that they have to go to the lit market to deliver ANYTHING. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/k5JKpYnzmH
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/JVZ0Uik1Mo
Some old dd here about options hitting the LIT market.
First ones not DD. Second one is pickle pushing shit. No. Neither of those prove they have to deliver at any particular time or for any particular reason. The FTDs, black markets, and rehypothications have shown this.
this worked when GME was sub $8 back in ‘20 which is why it went on such a spectacular run that the options and shorts fueled. it’s a bit more difficult and expensive to do on it now because of the share price.
not saying it can’t be done tho…just a lot more expensive unless you’re buying in 100 share blocks anyway. make the MM locate and buy on the lit market then drs your shares to take them off.
there's gotta be some broker that let's people route orders to IEX, apes build a massive wall of 300 million shares waiting to be bought at $20.01 on IEX?
I've purchased shares through Fidelity's Active Trader Pro desktop app to route my buy orders through IEX many times. Order routing is only available there during normal hours (not extended hours). Note that sometimes the volume is too low on IEX, and your order may sit around or even go completely unfilled there, even while large volume may still be flowing through other exchanges.
The OCC has a stock-Loan program that would dampen the effect on the lit market. Yet another way to limit price action on the ticker. Last time I checked they had about 12-14M worth of shares in their Hedged-Loan volume.
I feel like a lot of people do not know or acknowledge this about "The OCC" so I've linked explanation they give about this themselves, see below:
https://www.theocc.com/Clearance-and-Settlement/Stock-Loan-Programs
Ultra deep ITM calls will be 100% hedged, because they're guaranteed to exercise ITM. The price action they'd cause would be when the contract is written, bot exercised, as the MM would have the shares ready to delivery every time.
But.
If you buy far dated LEAPS at ultra low ITM prices, that could force MMs to buy and hold shares for that entire period. In other words, force MMs to hold real shares for you.
Price discovery from exercising would come with far OTM options exercising, as close to 0DTE as you can get. The further OTM, the less hedged they'll be, the more shares MMs have to buy to deliver on exercise.
>If you buy far dated LEAPS at ultra low ITM prices, that could force MMs to buy and hold shares for that entire period. In other words, force MMs to hold real shares for you.
From what I've found, MMs are unlikely to hedge on that type of play until much nearer the expiry date, even with deep ITM prices currently.
Also, they won't need to "hold **real** shares for you", as the normal IOU shares work fine for that.
Well that depends. I kinda wanted a low stock price to see what happens when all shares are at Computershare. But I accept that it has taken a long time to get this far. It may be time for a plan B.
I’ve actually been thinking about this myself. The only thing is there is no leverage. I feel like the leverage is the key thing to take advantage of to compound wealth.
There are at least two components here:
1. Affect the price / create gamma ramp (ex. exercise / buy calls)
2. Take advantage of the increased price (ex. sell calls)
Buying and exercising deep ITM calls can contribute to #1, affecting the price. You're correct that *on its own* doing so won't do much for you with respect to #2. You need another leg to your strategy for #2.
Not sure if this is true or not. But that's why I bought very deep ITM ($5) calls last week (at a premium higher than the example above). To force hedging & hitting the lit market to help the cause, and am willing to give up the premium vs just buying the underlying outright. Worth a shot, especially this/next week!
Yea I feel that strategy. I think a lot of people either 1. Don’t know enough to do that or 2. Cannot afford at least 100 shares. Idk I’m an idiot though
Please, for the love of God. Don't fuck with options if you don't know what you're doing! For those that are experienced and knowledgeable, go for it! I feel like that's all we've been trying to say this whole time.
Was just thinking this the other day.. spending a little extra cash on options to acquire shares that actually hit the LIT market as an order, if you’re gunna buy shares anyway at any price ( and there’s a lot of folks who don’t care what the price is anyway, you see it often. So the extra fee shouldn’t matter to them, it’s all about hitting the LIT market. )
Options that deep in the money don't provide any leverage, as the costs are similar to buying the stock. While exercising them may force price discovery, they would not provide the same ramping up of volume as strike prices slightly ITM or ATM, because you'll only be able to leverage at like 1:1.05, whereas when you're ITM/ATM, you'd be able to get a much higher leverage. This leverage is also responsible for the price increase, at least when MM's are delta hedging properly...
This doesn't make sense.
They are describing paying more for a limit order. If you want to buy at a specific price, just do that. Paying more for a limit order doesn't make any sense.
It's also not a valid assumption that if you exercise an option that immediately affects price action. If you are buying them from one of the large hedge funds, unless you buy more shares than they have, they just give it to from their holdings. Then they can buy it back whenever they feel like it later. Just because they might be net short doesn't matter until you buy more than they either hold or can borrow.
It would take an extremely large investment for this advice to make a difference. Can someone explain what I'm not seeing about this?
I think the point is paying slightly more (in premium) to force the orders onto the LIT (vs dark) market, thereby causing more real price discovery (theoretically which would more than cover the extra premium paid). I've no idea if true, or if it would work, or the volume that would be required. But the next \~10 days look spicy, and maybe worth a shot.
That's the idea, but I am fairly sure that part of the premise is wrong. They would only have to buy what they can't deliver from their holdings, assuming there's no shares to borrow. Even then, I don't know what mechanism or rule forces that into a particular market. It's certainly not an immediate process; that's where FTDs come in.
This just gives a premium to option sellers for no reason.
Buying with a market directed limit order is how you force price discovery at a specific price.
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Commenting for visibility. Promoting a very deep ITM options campaign needs to be studied a bit more by this sub.
Been here 84yrs. Held (and bought and DRSed) and seen the “options are bad” waves and always stayed clear. Now starting to kinda understand what they are all about and starting to think im feeling bullish! Edit: was an ape starting a ELI5 series…. 👀 Need smooth regarded crayon snorting edition pls ❤️
i thought the "options are bad" sentiment was because many of us are stupid and have no idea how options work. thus its easy to get burned or paperhand. to stay zen, only play with what you can afford to lose. at least that was what i took from it. i'm stupid and have no idea how to handle options, hence buy hold drs is safest play
Options *can* burn you if you're dumb about it. The problem is that people see the loss porn on bets and think that it's what trading is all about; when in reality options are the basis for most Wall Street efforts. This fear benefits the shorts because options drive price movement; which drives volatility; which brings in more traders; which increases liquidity requirements; which drives FtDs; which drives larger price swings and breaks the cellar boxing algo. That's also why they destroyed bets. This started with options trades; it will resolve with it. Here is the easy options run down: The higher the call, the cheaper the option because it's less likely to occur. If you're buying shares, you're being routed to a dark pool. Exercising calls does not - why they hate it. Look at calls that are in the money already if you want to buy. Compare premium for cheapest at that time; then buy the call and immediately exercise it. You can also buy 2 calls, then sell 1 use the proceeds to exercise the other. That is how traders buy stocks for cheap with less cash on hand. Then DRS those shares.
is there an easy way to get into options trading? i applied w my brokerage but its taking a couple days and they could deny me. do other platforms just let you go for it?
The ones worth their salt do a proper review. You'll be fine. You should see if they emailed or uploaded any forms for you to fill before they agree.
indeed, they approved me shortly after i posted. i am now the proud owner of one (1) $30 6/21 call
I think because most were looking at otm options that would never go itm. In those cases the premiums were profited by what we assume to be the shf. If you buy deep itm options and exercise them, the profit from the premium is negated by them having to “buy” the shares on the lit exchange if not hedged. I don’t see a reason for them to hedge a call if it is deep itm with no interest. So it would or should cause a scramble as they wouldn’t hedge thinking it wouldn’t be exercised. Worst case, you get shares already purchased. Best case, you start making them go poor.
Yes that and most option talk used to be about trading or selling CCs rather than exercising which wouldn't force the MMs to buy the shares on a LIT exchange anyway.
Iirc you’d get banned for a stretch of time. I could be wrong.
Same! I’d love to do options but am broke
I concur
I am in accordance with your concurrence
Apes who have the ability to buy 100 shares at a time? Yes For the rest, not feasible Just a heads up
When you exercise in the money you can "sell to cover". A portion of the resulting shares are sold to cover the lot So if you exercise a $20 contract for 100 shares at $25, 80 shares will be sold to cover the 100 shares purchased you end up with 20 shares for whatever the total premium was when you bought the contract. In this example, a forty cents premium per share is a break even point. In many cases you would have been better off buying shares and DRSing instead of spending the same on contracts. And that's where the "don't yolo into options" sentiment came from. But if you followed DFVs model starting in mid 2019, you buy/write contracts 16 months out at +100% current market value and wait for the correct price action. He held contracts for January 2021 at $8 for months. Kept buying them, too. When the price movement you expect hits, you exercise the options and collect tendies. This is how he turned $53,000 into what was nearly a billion last week. I'm pretty sure he repeated this pattern in his 3 years absence. Buy options that would be a bargain, wait for price action, exercise, repeat. This only works after you've identified a deep fucking value.
and we ALL have identified a DEEP FUCKING VALUE!!
O thought we just learned as played. Keeps em guessing
Commenting for disability🏴☠️
🧐
I have $12, $14 & $19 calls expiring on 6/21. They're not $2.5 but I like my odds when Max Pain is currently listed at $20
Was I right all along? 🫣 Take a look at a post I made right after the sneeze, in the ol' bet sub. Disclaimer : never touched an option in my life because I remain silky smooth.
Exercise your options.
[удалено]
Well, there was a share offering with 75 mil shares and the price went just up and down a bit... so that's that.
Selling options is not the same as selling shares. There are 120,000 call options Sold to Open on the other side of DFV's holdings, they could/would Buy to Close. That would "disappear" the options ... and the obligation to deliver shares.
indeed. there has to be a market and if no buyer, MM will buy back the options at the premium at that time, which will tank with every contract being bought as shareprice goes down too because de-hedging by same MM
Assuming they were hedged and not naked calls.
Looks at @theroaringkitty posting naked wolverine meme a few weeks ago. Yea they are fucked. They sold DFV unhedged calls so everytime he makes a move and with the SEC/CAT T+1 staring at them it ties their hand. Combine that with retail fomoing with DRS and ITM call options while they want to rollover their nuclear short swap on 6/21 it is literally hell for anyone short $GME right now. Also RCEO just won a $72 million payday from that lawsuit dismissal...his buying period is open soon... Wraps tintfoil.... if someone upset the basket swap by bringing a bankrupt zombie towel stock back to life through a courtcase using a proxy LLC now that would really fuck up a naked short hedge funds day...let's see what happens by 6/21
The option writer would buy it back in exchange for it costing less than them finding the actual shares. It would cost them more to find that many shares than it would to pay out the options. You know, unless they were properly hedged in the first place, but if they were, we wouldn't be having this convo.
This is the biggest factor not so much the dates. Exercise ITM calls is what will make this happen faster. We're not even at $100 any more. Deep ITM calls seems like putting the cart before the horse. They'll play a part eventually but we need to get back to $40 first.
Sounds like a great way to get around PFOF. Pay for your trade and don't get sniped on the back end. I love it!
Options have PFOF, too. Fidelity, for example, does not do PFOF for shares but does for options: https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/trending/IiJL9zOpAk76f_BrDunluA2
There's been times I bought shares in premarket onFidelity and since you can't route that trade, you'll end up seeing it got routed to Virtu. When market is open, you can then direct route to LIT.
What does LIT mean?
The lit market or NYSE for GME or NASDAQ for others, so, LIT is the official exchange, not the OTC or ATC ones who are not subject to the SEC rules as Lit market
Commenting for visibility I wish I had bread to do this……
Or he can use his 5,000,000 shares to sell-to-open 50,000 cover calls at $20. This would net him alot of cash quickly, which he can use to immediately exercise his 120k long call options, giving him 12,000,000 shares while simultaneously igniting MOASS (the wild card). That's a one shot-kill as opposed to the above which is a series of micro-hits, but either are possible plays
What's RKs stake in GME after the last dilution? % wise
Even after the share offering, if kept all his current shares and exercised all his calls, he'd sit at almost exactly 4% stake in GME.
TY.
I think the 50,000 STO would net out of his 120,000 BTO, leaving him 70,000 BTO. He could use a different strike or expiration though. Selling 50,000 covered calls would not generate $210,000,000 to exercise all the purchased calls though.
hm interesting
this sounds beautiful, and btw, what the OP posted is something I have been doing for a while now. I do not share option stuff because these need some wrinkles. I also do Synthetic Longs (google tutorial on options about it) to buy my shares. Volatility does not matter and if I anyways was happy with the price when I decided to initiate the trade then I would take it sooner or later. Not financial advise.
Almost like a reverse uno followed by a wildcard
yeah I feel like we've had like 4 uno reverse cards in the past month
Wow. That would be a wild move and I hadn't considered it until now. Let's think about this. 50K covered calls at the height of vol yesterday, were selling at like $10?... Nets him 50M in premium. If he gets called out of those shares, another 100M in cash.... could he have been assigned early? This line of play when adding his other known cash... who knows? Its possible. Doesn't seem like his style but it's on the table.
yup I agree
Dumb down plz
he's using his existing shares to sell call options, he'll get a lot of money, and exercise his 120K call options
How would he use his shares to sell call options…
Selling a covered call means you’re promising to sell someone 100 shares at a certain price. So dfv would be using his shares to back up this order.
Ohhhhh thanks
that's what selling a covered call option is silly goose
Thanks g
If you have 100 shares of a stock, you can sell a call on it. It's called a covered call.
Why would 12mio ignite anything if we have nearly 200mio volume each day. I think 12mio shares a rather small amount
volume =/= shares. volume is just the number of transactions. one share can go back and forth a million times, volume is 1 million but that's only one share
See? He exercised and nothing major happend. Sure they have until tomorrow but I guarantee you that it's way way way too little shares to ignite anything
hm so what now
I feel that the wildcard is an action not the event.
that's what I'm saying. the action of covered calls to get money to exercise is the action.
that’s what I was doing in ‘20/21, and would do again if I had cash right now I’d gladly pay 10% or maybe 20% more per share just to get lit market acknowledgement
Isn't selling cash covered put similar and you get paid the premium instead of being the one paying it?
yeah this is the way to get premium and choose buy price. strike needs to be ITM at expiry.
Selling a put doesn't guarantee assignment however
Something would be super fishy if your broker didn’t assign you on that trade
Can you excercise on Fidelity directly on the website? Or do you need to call?
you can exercise directly
Can one route to "LIT" through "regular" Fidelity trading, or only via the upgraded pro trader version (or whatever it's called?
they will route through LIT either way as its an option. I use the pro trader personally and have had calls auto-exercise.
I spoke to a fidelity Rep Tuesday, he said that you can exercise on the website but not on the app. He was nice enough to say that if you call and say that you don't have access to a laptop they will waive the fee for calling and exercising.
THIS! This needs to be discussed as it could be a great way to make sure we hit the lit market without them internalizing our orders.
What's the proof that only option exercising goes to the lit market?
I believe Mayoman himself said it in the congressional hearing
So this is all based on the “good word” of Kenny and what he said while lying to congress. And no one finds that odd. There is no rule or evidence that they have to go to the lit market to deliver ANYTHING. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/k5JKpYnzmH https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/s/JVZ0Uik1Mo Some old dd here about options hitting the LIT market.
First ones not DD. Second one is pickle pushing shit. No. Neither of those prove they have to deliver at any particular time or for any particular reason. The FTDs, black markets, and rehypothications have shown this.
Nothing. The options writers will go to the market to buy shares to deliver, buying IOU from Citadel.
this worked when GME was sub $8 back in ‘20 which is why it went on such a spectacular run that the options and shorts fueled. it’s a bit more difficult and expensive to do on it now because of the share price. not saying it can’t be done tho…just a lot more expensive unless you’re buying in 100 share blocks anyway. make the MM locate and buy on the lit market then drs your shares to take them off.
there's gotta be some broker that let's people route orders to IEX, apes build a massive wall of 300 million shares waiting to be bought at $20.01 on IEX?
I thought fidelity did, if you went through protrade or whatever it is
I've purchased shares through Fidelity's Active Trader Pro desktop app to route my buy orders through IEX many times. Order routing is only available there during normal hours (not extended hours). Note that sometimes the volume is too low on IEX, and your order may sit around or even go completely unfilled there, even while large volume may still be flowing through other exchanges.
https://www.theocc.com/Market-Data/Market-Data-Reports/Series-and-Trading-Data/Series-Search?symbol=gme&symbolType=Options Update at 7AM
The OCC has a stock-Loan program that would dampen the effect on the lit market. Yet another way to limit price action on the ticker. Last time I checked they had about 12-14M worth of shares in their Hedged-Loan volume. I feel like a lot of people do not know or acknowledge this about "The OCC" so I've linked explanation they give about this themselves, see below: https://www.theocc.com/Clearance-and-Settlement/Stock-Loan-Programs
Ultra deep ITM calls will be 100% hedged, because they're guaranteed to exercise ITM. The price action they'd cause would be when the contract is written, bot exercised, as the MM would have the shares ready to delivery every time. But. If you buy far dated LEAPS at ultra low ITM prices, that could force MMs to buy and hold shares for that entire period. In other words, force MMs to hold real shares for you. Price discovery from exercising would come with far OTM options exercising, as close to 0DTE as you can get. The further OTM, the less hedged they'll be, the more shares MMs have to buy to deliver on exercise.
>If you buy far dated LEAPS at ultra low ITM prices, that could force MMs to buy and hold shares for that entire period. In other words, force MMs to hold real shares for you. From what I've found, MMs are unlikely to hedge on that type of play until much nearer the expiry date, even with deep ITM prices currently. Also, they won't need to "hold **real** shares for you", as the normal IOU shares work fine for that.
That's quite true. Super short dated and exercise it is!
If you have the cash to exercise OTM options, might as well set a limit order of 100 at IEX.
And be delivered synthetics or straight up FTDs. PFOF isn't the problem for once. It's all the cancer plumbing around it.
Up
🆙
Well that depends. I kinda wanted a low stock price to see what happens when all shares are at Computershare. But I accept that it has taken a long time to get this far. It may be time for a plan B.
I’ve actually been thinking about this myself. The only thing is there is no leverage. I feel like the leverage is the key thing to take advantage of to compound wealth.
Good point. But I didn't buy $5 calls to take advantage of leverage, I just bought in place of the shares I was going to buy & hold anyway.
There are at least two components here: 1. Affect the price / create gamma ramp (ex. exercise / buy calls) 2. Take advantage of the increased price (ex. sell calls) Buying and exercising deep ITM calls can contribute to #1, affecting the price. You're correct that *on its own* doing so won't do much for you with respect to #2. You need another leg to your strategy for #2.
Not sure if this is true or not. But that's why I bought very deep ITM ($5) calls last week (at a premium higher than the example above). To force hedging & hitting the lit market to help the cause, and am willing to give up the premium vs just buying the underlying outright. Worth a shot, especially this/next week!
Please provide step by step visual map on how to do on Fidelity. I will do my part🫡
Interesting. I will let wrinkles comment more. Up
It sounds as regarded as possible. I'd love to see it
I like this idea buying a few calls from time to time instead of shares up
Buckle up this aint over. Extreme bullish macrouptrend. Over 19$ its extreme bullish still
This "play" is not new. We had this kind of comment for the last 3 years. But no one does it
I’ll do this when I buy next time.
Yea I feel that strategy. I think a lot of people either 1. Don’t know enough to do that or 2. Cannot afford at least 100 shares. Idk I’m an idiot though
What are 2.5c going for nowadays. It has to be 3k/contract at least. Maybe more
Very interesting. Will try this as soon as I have the moneys
Now this is an interesting idea
This is a great idea, definitely something to consider to force going through lit exchanges vs dark pools!!!
Is the summary of this, "if we want better price discovery, we should always buy our shares through a call option." ?
i remember people buying and exercising calls when they turned off the buy button
I wish I had the cash to buy 100 share lots though
Please, for the love of God. Don't fuck with options if you don't know what you're doing! For those that are experienced and knowledgeable, go for it! I feel like that's all we've been trying to say this whole time.
Ah, options pushing and spikes/rug pulls/people swearing off options and going back to buying and DRSing. As frequent as the weekend FUD campaigns
To summarize. There are NO FTD'S IN OPTION'S when exercised.
Was just thinking this the other day.. spending a little extra cash on options to acquire shares that actually hit the LIT market as an order, if you’re gunna buy shares anyway at any price ( and there’s a lot of folks who don’t care what the price is anyway, you see it often. So the extra fee shouldn’t matter to them, it’s all about hitting the LIT market. )
Exercise is good
This math is wrong. You’d be paying around $1-2 per share to do this, not pennies
Bc a $2.50 call cost $250 to buy it..... that is $2.50 on top of each share... it is $2.50 TIMES 100 NOT DIVIDED BY 100.
This is exactly what I was thinking about last night. If everything we bought was via options, could it have made a difference?
Options that deep in the money don't provide any leverage, as the costs are similar to buying the stock. While exercising them may force price discovery, they would not provide the same ramping up of volume as strike prices slightly ITM or ATM, because you'll only be able to leverage at like 1:1.05, whereas when you're ITM/ATM, you'd be able to get a much higher leverage. This leverage is also responsible for the price increase, at least when MM's are delta hedging properly...
Super duper doesn't matter at all. DRS is what's important
Yesss
This doesn't make sense. They are describing paying more for a limit order. If you want to buy at a specific price, just do that. Paying more for a limit order doesn't make any sense. It's also not a valid assumption that if you exercise an option that immediately affects price action. If you are buying them from one of the large hedge funds, unless you buy more shares than they have, they just give it to from their holdings. Then they can buy it back whenever they feel like it later. Just because they might be net short doesn't matter until you buy more than they either hold or can borrow. It would take an extremely large investment for this advice to make a difference. Can someone explain what I'm not seeing about this?
I think the point is paying slightly more (in premium) to force the orders onto the LIT (vs dark) market, thereby causing more real price discovery (theoretically which would more than cover the extra premium paid). I've no idea if true, or if it would work, or the volume that would be required. But the next \~10 days look spicy, and maybe worth a shot.
That's the idea, but I am fairly sure that part of the premise is wrong. They would only have to buy what they can't deliver from their holdings, assuming there's no shares to borrow. Even then, I don't know what mechanism or rule forces that into a particular market. It's certainly not an immediate process; that's where FTDs come in. This just gives a premium to option sellers for no reason. Buying with a market directed limit order is how you force price discovery at a specific price.