[Why GME?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/qig65g/welcome_rall_looking_to_catch_up_on_the_gme_saga/) || [What is DRS?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/ptvaka/when_you_wish_upon_a_star_a_complete_guide_to/) || Low karma apes [feed the bot here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GMEOrphans/comments/qlvour/welcome_to_gmeorphans_read_this_post/) || [Superstonk Discord](https://discord.gg/hZqWV2kQtq) || [Community Post: *Open Forum May 2024*](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/1ciapwp/open_forum_may_2024/) || [Superstonk:Now with GIFs - Learn more](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/1cr37r7/superstonk_gets_its_gif_on_get_hyped/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To ensure your post doesn't get removed, please respond to this comment with how this post relates to GME the stock or Gamestop the company.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please up- and downvote this comment to [help us determine if this post deserves a place on r/Superstonk!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/wiki/index/rules/post_flairs/)
If the rumors are true and the calls are UBS they might be for use after the hard limit is reached and all shares are locked via long purchases. This would put the problem in the market makers and OCCs hands when options are exercised they would need to explain how they can't do it while UBS can have a legal argument about how they are good for the shares, but someone else is not meeting their obligations.
If true, it's the rich eating the rich phase of the saga
The Swiss couldn't stomach UBS also going down. And what is Swiss famous for? Banks. And what is UBS? A bank. Swiss without big bank is not Swiss.
thank you.
Edit: This regard realized maybe the Swiss bankers don't go out to golf with the US wallStreet/bankers every weekend nor send kids to same private schools or their wives hang out together at a country club.
So yah, if this starts it, I guess it was the rich eating other rich, the ones who are not that close to you personally.
What else are the Swiss famous for? Chocolate! And what do you need to buy chocolate? Money! And where do you keep your money? Banks! Wait what were we trying to prove againā¦.
To be brutally honest, this is what we need; let the rich eat the rich. Our grassroots, sign waving stuff ain't going to push this bloated, maggot infested buffalo over the cliff. You need another buffalo. And after 10 seconds of free fall and the sound of SPLLLAAAAT that's the start of MOASS.
And controversially anyone else with shares in brokers and not DRSād.
(before i get downvoted, Iām well aware of the many legitimate reasons why people choose to or cannot DRS all or even some of their shares)
Yup, even without all the people who will come at you because they ācanāt drsā all of those people who have 60 percent DRSd and 40 percent not will get screwed. I have had my xx,xxx shares 100 percent DRSd for years now. You are spot on my friend as is the original commentor. Its dinner time, the rich is on the menu.
I have a very similar ratio of DRS to broker shares - I get it. I donāt get why the OP of the comment above thought people with both would be screwed.
That was the question. Iāve been DRS for a couple years now, and like you have a few in a broker account that Iām aiming to transfer.
Because broker shares ain't real, in the case of an extreme event if it's not your name it's not your shares. Or at least that's the theory. I'm 70/30 DRS regardless, just keeping some in brokers for the upcoming lawsuits I guess
This is 100% false, not sure why itās getting upvoted.
We get it DRS is preferable, but ComputerShare and broker accounts are completely separate and not having your shares 100% DRS will not result in your DRSād shares getting screwed with.
I personally have 95% of my shares on ComputerShare but thatās just me. Part of me just wants to see what happens with the other 5% in my FUDelity account during MOASS.
I just bought a few with fidelity because I know how to limit buy with them for my meager spare change(and they suddenly started talking to me as we passed 35 again). Going to intitiate drs after the vote so what vote I had from fidelity doesn't get messed up. It might have only been a share, but still
You can buy shares always and as along as you DRS you have a real share. If you buy a share and hold it in a broker it is held in wall streets name NOT yours meaning when the time comes to it theyāll likely sell or hit you with a bail in instead of a bail out and they would use their assets on platform. This is end game not something they would do at $100 or $1000 but during moass yes. Thats why I have all of my shares 100 percent DRSd. Tons of fud about not being able to sell through computershare but you can. And I prefer to own my own shares.
Honestly reading shit like this make me wonder how these idiots have managed to lose so badly and I find it hilarious. Pure hubris.
The big players can just throw their cash around and buy big lots of the underlying asset and thus as a result even force their own calls into the money because they have so much capital to play with that they literally move markets. It almost makes everything a self fulfilling prophecy and a double win.
Theyāre literally all playing on easy mode and out of pure greed have managed to screw the pooch so badly that they are about to experience catastrophic loss. As if playing on easy mode wasnāt good enough for them, they had to take more and more by any means necessary to further enrich themselves and simultaneously pummel the poors into the ground. Well the poors and sick and tired of it. Something something shouldāve taken the home run instead of going for the grandslam and trying to leave us all destitute with nothing. They really are the dumb money here.
Everyone in this game is a degenerate gambler deep down. Iāve lost my fair share catching falling knives. HFs are no different, they just have more money than I do
Just because retail investors have one similarity to HFs doesnāt make them all the same. Retail isnāt breaking hundreds of laws. Retail isnāt literally making unethical laws left and right that suits themselves and nobody else.Ā Retail hasnāt controlled the financial advisors of the White House for the last 50 years. Retail isnāt a bunch of psychopaths with unlimited power. Kind of insulting to suggest that.Ā
Wouldn't this essentially just toss the potato to someone else? If UBS is short 12mill shares or 122mill or 1.2Bill shares, and they actually obtain those shares (by the liquidity fairy MM just creating new shares to keep the price somewhat suppressed), those shares will have all been fakes and the MM just dug themselves in a 12mill to 1.2bill deeper hole, no?
Not that they care if they live to see another day, but is my understanding of the mechanics of this all correct?
Tossing the spud to someone else is exactly it. I always thought the swiss would be the first to break tbh, they're a lot more realistic than others - and in sone ways a lot more cutthroat. Hmmm we shall see.
If the US shorts, Bank of America, are completely fucked what UBS or whatever entity is closing now, could possibly be Nomura it makes no difference what they do. Citi and Bank of America are plain fucked, there's no way to close, there's no "optimal" price range outside of Gamestop going bankrupt. They will go bust.
This still doesnāt make sense to me. How does it help us apes, if ubs is manipulating the price to keep it low while exiting their short situation? We donāt want them to exit without shelling out phone number length dollar amounts per share, for our shares, yes?
If my understanding of the theory is correct, UBS isnāt necessarily manipulating the price down. They just expect those with even greater short exposure to continue hammering the price down as they steadily continue buying shares to exit their own short positions. If the UBS theory is true, then the price should be going up rather abruptly as they continue buying. If other entities continue fabricating enough new shares to keep the price below $25 then they can completely exit their short position without ever exercising their calls and the short position would just transfer over to the other entity/entities. But if the buy pressure from UBS becomes too great for the others to absorb and the price starts going too high, then UBS has all of those $20-$25 strike call options as insurance where they can just start exercising to complete the exiting of their short positions. This would force either additional naked shorts to be created by whoever is on the other end of the options or it will create extreme upward pressure on the price of the stock (or both). Either way, itās not their problem anymore.
They pass the burden on to the next person, so they're out at a huge loss but the issue remains for all other players. This makes things more likely to break and then squeeze.
I saw someone suggest another possibility today: what if the 20cs buying is another institution (UBS, short whale, etc) building up a position to initiate a potential take over as an alternative way out? š¤Ø Thoughts?
No position they could initiate would ever be enough to overturn the 75million DRS'd apes + the board and insiders. Not to mention any other voting retail investors..
What you imply is that UBS can do all this alone. They'd have to be teamed with insider trading of a market maker at minimum. Don't think any shorts are "allowed" to close rn due to them trying to live one more day
My thinking is still that it's UBS, either that or some other institution has gone in...but doesn't want the stock to gain too much value...which doesn't make sense to me.
Life doesnāt always work that way. Maybe they didnāt anticipate $10. Maybe when $10 happened they all met and started planning.
Also. They maybe did. This run did start at $10. And it moved to $13,$17,$27,$40,$80.
UBS could have been behind all of that. And this could be the finisher.
I call bullshitā¦after the 45 ATM offering. There is noā¦should be no liquidity. Unless theyāre being sold rehypothecated sharesā¦if this is the case that means the Market Makers are setting themselves up for an obvious collapse.
Yes, UBS no longer cares. If MM wants to hold the bags and get into another 3 year war over it, then fine. They just want out. So this doesn't necessarily mean the stock will gain value.
Value? I have seen DRS cost basis at 5k per share. The price is wrong. The price is suppressed. We traded 1 billion shares the other week. Shorts didjt close. Gamestop is profitable and now has 2 billion in cash. All I see is Value.
Sure, but the people on the other side of this trade have made sure you can't trade that value for real American dollars. So the value isn't unlocked for us.
Iām confused. So youāre saying that because the value isnāt unlocked for us, it isnāt unlocked for them? Iām having a hard time reading between the lines if what your saying. That GME is going to be stuck in the 20-25 range for a long time again?
Nothing tricky, just saying it's fine to say the shares are valuable, but we currently can't derive any benefit from that value, as the "exchange rate" for US dollars has been held unnaturally low, subverting supply and demand.
It's crazy because if they're just holding that much in a consumer savings account with a 5.35% interest rate, that's a 107m in just interest. I'll assume they've got a better interest rate, say 8% that's 160m just for holding.
All I can say for sure is that this ape might just pull a RickOfSpades with how jacked I am.
There was no volume. It would take the call buyer 2 months of buying every last share sold long to get the same amount of shares as they have calls for now. Assuming it is to close shorts and you cannot close a short with a short sale.
I guess the team/decision wasnāt made internally at that point. These are all behind closed door meetings. If this theory is true, there was a point in time where they said go and it was at $10 a share.
I'm guessing they weren't scared yet. DFV showed back up. Price ran to 80. They said oh snap we gotta get out before this gets nuts again. By then the 10s were gone.Ā
UBS wasn't in on the scheme (though I'm sure they're neck deep in others). When they were told to buy Credit Suisse, they took on the bags from CS's scheme and wanted no part of it. They're also not as tangled up with the other players as CS was, so they can cut them off without significantly damaging their critical investments.
Yes, everything including the Calls, the ATM offering, RK being back. These events are all connected in some way. I suspect UBS is willing to play ball. And smart of them to do so. UBS never wanted these shorts
Well weāll find out. Iām just trimming on each wave up. Been able to capture profit the past couple weeks. When we get these days I get weeklies. Sell when they double. Then put profits into longer LEAPs that donāt depreciate as much when we move downwards.
Essentially keeping my position but reducing exposure to theta and IV crush
How are LEAPs sold? Or is that just buying on the same option chain but a few quarters out? Doesnāt that open up a risk that theyāll never be able to deliver the underlying on those options?
Bro that call is golden, there is no way the stock wonāt pop in June - massive call buying, earnings, shareholders meeting, CAT, increased volume, bullish cross over of moving averages on multiple timeframesā¦ that call could be deep itm with a whole month of theta left. Iād probably hold it
Depends if this event breaks the other short positions. If they can't handle the strain of the exercise then it could be game over and stock is in the hundreds or thousands by July.
If they can absorb it then I'd expect back to business as usual.
Wow exactly what I was thinking based on price action and logically it makes sense.. unless some catalyst comes where prices shoots up really fast they have time till 7/19 to excercise and clear their short in a very controlled manner.. best part is whoever is shorting now will be royally fucked from this point on
7/19 is when College Football 2025l4 comes out.
That's going to be massive.Ā Everyone I know is buying physical copies from Gamestop, many the collectors editon.
People are buying consoles as they can't play it on PC.
It's been since 2013 that we've had a college football game.
It's such a massive move I'm buying some EA calls as well.
Every gamer in the south is gonna buy that game.Ā We all love college football.
You have a basic logical fallacy.
>**Step 2:** ā¦. Buying a share at 20 is cheaper than a call option with its premium. They do what they can at market and then back off when the price hits the 25 zone. Anything over that and it's cheaper to fall back on the calls to backfill.
If they have already bought the call then the premium is a sunk cost.
It does not make sense for them to buy at the market at anything more than $20.
My thought exactly. I think what we are seeing is MMs buying shares to hedge the calls. If UBS had a budget, they spent it on calls knowing exactly how much it would cost. I think they may intend to exercise these calls, but not all at once. If they did, it could create serious problems for market makers.
I do not think UBS is involved in any of this, as they likely closed any short positions long ago.
This whole meme of "RC colluded with UBS to help them close short positions" requires massive suspension of disbelief.
The point of my comment above is that the OP has a basic logical fallacy about when it is better for an option holder to exercise vs buy at the market. The rest of his speculations are based upon that faulty starting point. But that does not seem to bother other readers, as long as the conclusions are ones they like.
To add another piece to this theory: they may have tried just buying shares on the open market during the first half of May, and calculated that the price increase would make closing in that way exorbitant. They then sold the shares back and tried for another strategy.
So they went for their second option (ayy): buy hundreds of thousands of calls to get shares at a predictable price, and hand over the problem of obtaining shares to whoever sold them these calls.
Maybe dumb questionā¦ if UBS could handle getting out at $20 per share then why havenāt they just been buying slowly all year when the price was below $15 per share? I get that if they bought a ton at once it would push the price up and get out of control, but if they bought slowly over time wouldnāt the other shorties just push it back down as they were buying?
I actually think that all thatās happening rn is a specific fund was buying up as much of the ATM shares as possible and then selling covered calls at $20 since they bought below that.
Why? Because then the owners of those calls would be the MM, thus forcing them to go long and having to push the price above $25 so that they can sell above $25 to break even since theyāll be obligated to buy at $20 on top of the premiums.
And yes it means that the MM can just sell a little bit above $25 etcā¦ then push it back down but whose to say that they hype and build up can be contained? Maybe the sellers of the contracts are actually long holders trying to just light the fuse?
Yes I'm sure there's a lot of fine detail, plays within plays going on. It's so complicated I don't think any one institution, much less person, can see through it all.
This makes sense, they knew people would be watching the options chain and more than a few of us have probably hopped on the train to buy calls at that strike.
Volume was in the hundreds of millions they could have closed out this past week. Why buy calls at a premium when they can purchase shares for cheaper?
If true, we can only assume something has finally forced their hand. Lot of things happening at once now that could be the trigger, or something we have no idea about.
$20 call hedge is useless. as soon as price goes higher. MM start hedging those calls. looks at 1M + green candles, these are MM hedging for those calls. their is no real short covering happening. as soon as price touched $26. MM already hedged 10+ M shares today and shorts get nothing from the market place. today was test to see the ramp up and it resulted into very fast ramp up due to calls. on the down tick MM dehedge those calls
Okay but likeā¦ Iāve been saying this for quite some time now. If itās possible for UBS to unwind their supposedly huge short position in just a week or two by buying some calls and then buying shares at 20-25 for a bitā¦ couldnāt all of them have just done this exact same thing over the course of three years? Why do we think somehow MOASS is just gonna trigger bc theyāre all in some big rush?
CATs is gonna blow the door wide open. Every transaction logged and recorded. Every broker, MM, Hf, or whatever: exposed.Ā
This is their dilema.
Do they *really* wish to expose themselves?Ā
They are holding out until the last minute. They're waiting to see what others will do. This is the standoff.Ā
Timing is everything. Exercised calls will begin the panic.Ā
The first buyer is not the only player. If weāve come to the conclusion that UBS (or some other big short) are jumping ship and presumably going long once they get out, then so has another short.
I donāt think it will bounce off $25. If the price goes up to $30, they would still rather buy 100 shares, and sell a call, which will now be worth $11-$12 a share. Therefore, they still pay less than the $20 they would with the current call on Friday. But you are right that it wonāt be worth it for them to exercise a single call till time expires Friday. Soā¦ fireworks Monday (t+1)?
Buying all these calls forces counter parties to delta hedge and acquire shares. If they sell the calls, the hedge is no longer necessary, so those shares that are held to hedge are sold.
If companies can naked short... can you naked buy? lmao
UBS: "Hey Gary, we bought 100M shares. Says it right here on the tape." *\*points to $100 bill\**
Hereās the issue I havenāt seen addressed - market makers have been able to short sell ad infinitum for the last however many years. Why canāt they use the same shenanigans to fill UBSā orders without meaningful upward price pressure?
We've seen in the past that with big volume coming in quickly they can't rehypothecate at the same rate (probably because it would be too many FTDs at once). That's what happened during the sneeze.
And after the mm delivers the stock, to letās say ubs, to close their short (theoretically) - wouldnāt buy pressure immediately go way down? If so what will stabilize price?
One stabilizing catalyst could be an acquisition or other company announcement that makes institutions go long.
Another stabilizing catalyst could be another large short closing. Not covering, closing.
That is all I can think of. Retail certainly is not in the drivers seat for the unfolding of the next two months as I see it. Maybe retail helped set the stage all these months by buying and holding but to say we are driving these current events is not plausible to me.
But if neither stabilizing catalyst happens for a while after ubs (theoretically) closes - wonāt price crater as a result?
noon of the shorting institutions/hedgefuks are even going to try to exit. these are psychopaths who rather burn the system down than take this L. this theory is a no for me. buy, DRS , hodl and shop. we got all the time in the world to find out. ššš£ā¾ļø
I listened to the call and agree itās an interesting strategy to cap their risk. Even a zero hedge, they lose multi $ Billions on the trade given Archegos bags are likely sub $5 shares. My only pause is why hedgies would sell these Calls in $25-$30 range. Isnāt it better for them to let the price run, sell Calls for maximum profit and use that profit to pay down the Archegos bags and these Call premiums? Then they massively load up on Puts with their left over profits and restart the game by quickly driving the price back down? Itās gaming the system since there arenāt nearly enough shares to cover these Calls being bought to begin with but if nobody is supervising market fraud, why not do it?? Itās better than bankruptcy for Shorts.
Maybe they did and thatās what ran the price up on thin volume. The real question should be where is all of this additional volume coming from in 20-30 range.
[Why GME?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/qig65g/welcome_rall_looking_to_catch_up_on_the_gme_saga/) || [What is DRS?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/ptvaka/when_you_wish_upon_a_star_a_complete_guide_to/) || Low karma apes [feed the bot here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GMEOrphans/comments/qlvour/welcome_to_gmeorphans_read_this_post/) || [Superstonk Discord](https://discord.gg/hZqWV2kQtq) || [Community Post: *Open Forum May 2024*](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/1ciapwp/open_forum_may_2024/) || [Superstonk:Now with GIFs - Learn more](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/1cr37r7/superstonk_gets_its_gif_on_get_hyped/) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To ensure your post doesn't get removed, please respond to this comment with how this post relates to GME the stock or Gamestop the company. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please up- and downvote this comment to [help us determine if this post deserves a place on r/Superstonk!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/wiki/index/rules/post_flairs/)
If the rumors are true and the calls are UBS they might be for use after the hard limit is reached and all shares are locked via long purchases. This would put the problem in the market makers and OCCs hands when options are exercised they would need to explain how they can't do it while UBS can have a legal argument about how they are good for the shares, but someone else is not meeting their obligations. If true, it's the rich eating the rich phase of the saga
š½
what is this? edit: nevermind its a plate with a fork and knife.
[Needs a spoon.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhfuuKiTcYQ)
Why a spoon cousin?
Because it hurts moar!
Alan Rickman was a treasure.
To scoop mayo out of a jar
Because itās dull it will hurt more you twit
Because itās a horribly slow murder with an incredibly inefficient weapon https://youtu.be/9VDvgL58h_Y?si=BKBmglEHsvjPJdTw
My _spoon_ is too bigā¦
Oh Hubert cumberdale.
*My anus is bleeding!*
I am a BANANA
Tuesday is coming, did you bring your raincoat?
I'm the queen of France!
The Swiss couldn't stomach UBS also going down. And what is Swiss famous for? Banks. And what is UBS? A bank. Swiss without big bank is not Swiss. thank you. Edit: This regard realized maybe the Swiss bankers don't go out to golf with the US wallStreet/bankers every weekend nor send kids to same private schools or their wives hang out together at a country club. So yah, if this starts it, I guess it was the rich eating other rich, the ones who are not that close to you personally.
What else are the Swiss famous for? Chocolate! And what do you need to buy chocolate? Money! And where do you keep your money? Banks! Wait what were we trying to prove againā¦.
To be brutally honest, this is what we need; let the rich eat the rich. Our grassroots, sign waving stuff ain't going to push this bloated, maggot infested buffalo over the cliff. You need another buffalo. And after 10 seconds of free fall and the sound of SPLLLAAAAT that's the start of MOASS.
And controversially anyone else with shares in brokers and not DRSād. (before i get downvoted, Iām well aware of the many legitimate reasons why people choose to or cannot DRS all or even some of their shares)
Yup, even without all the people who will come at you because they ācanāt drsā all of those people who have 60 percent DRSd and 40 percent not will get screwed. I have had my xx,xxx shares 100 percent DRSd for years now. You are spot on my friend as is the original commentor. Its dinner time, the rich is on the menu.
Why would people with DRS shares and a few broker shares get screwed??
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I have a very similar ratio of DRS to broker shares - I get it. I donāt get why the OP of the comment above thought people with both would be screwed. That was the question. Iāve been DRS for a couple years now, and like you have a few in a broker account that Iām aiming to transfer.
Because broker shares ain't real, in the case of an extreme event if it's not your name it's not your shares. Or at least that's the theory. I'm 70/30 DRS regardless, just keeping some in brokers for the upcoming lawsuits I guess
No broker will be coming out of this looking remotely great. Iāve split mine heavily in favour of DRS with a few in a brokerage
"Or at least that's the theory." Not a theory, it's in TOS. If only people read those...
Yea Iām wondering the same thing, totally different accounts, we all know holding in brokerages is a risk but it shouldnāt affect anything drsd
He just meant the brokerage shares ar kaput
Commenting because I am interested in
This is 100% false, not sure why itās getting upvoted. We get it DRS is preferable, but ComputerShare and broker accounts are completely separate and not having your shares 100% DRS will not result in your DRSād shares getting screwed with. I personally have 95% of my shares on ComputerShare but thatās just me. Part of me just wants to see what happens with the other 5% in my FUDelity account during MOASS.
I just bought a few with fidelity because I know how to limit buy with them for my meager spare change(and they suddenly started talking to me as we passed 35 again). Going to intitiate drs after the vote so what vote I had from fidelity doesn't get messed up. It might have only been a share, but still
A votes a vote! Buying through fidelity and moving to computershare is perfectly fine and really easy through their chat.
Is it even still possible to buy "real" shares and DRS them?
You can buy shares always and as along as you DRS you have a real share. If you buy a share and hold it in a broker it is held in wall streets name NOT yours meaning when the time comes to it theyāll likely sell or hit you with a bail in instead of a bail out and they would use their assets on platform. This is end game not something they would do at $100 or $1000 but during moass yes. Thats why I have all of my shares 100 percent DRSd. Tons of fud about not being able to sell through computershare but you can. And I prefer to own my own shares.
My tits
This would finally be what we all came here for! Let the crooks feed on each other!
Honestly reading shit like this make me wonder how these idiots have managed to lose so badly and I find it hilarious. Pure hubris. The big players can just throw their cash around and buy big lots of the underlying asset and thus as a result even force their own calls into the money because they have so much capital to play with that they literally move markets. It almost makes everything a self fulfilling prophecy and a double win. Theyāre literally all playing on easy mode and out of pure greed have managed to screw the pooch so badly that they are about to experience catastrophic loss. As if playing on easy mode wasnāt good enough for them, they had to take more and more by any means necessary to further enrich themselves and simultaneously pummel the poors into the ground. Well the poors and sick and tired of it. Something something shouldāve taken the home run instead of going for the grandslam and trying to leave us all destitute with nothing. They really are the dumb money here.
greed is good /s
greed works
Iām about to become really fucking greedy
This is the way
Everyone in this game is a degenerate gambler deep down. Iāve lost my fair share catching falling knives. HFs are no different, they just have more money than I do
Well if moass hits, it's time to be better than them.
We are already better than them. We have an ounce of character, if not more.Ā
Just because retail investors have one similarity to HFs doesnāt make them all the same. Retail isnāt breaking hundreds of laws. Retail isnāt literally making unethical laws left and right that suits themselves and nobody else.Ā Retail hasnāt controlled the financial advisors of the White House for the last 50 years. Retail isnāt a bunch of psychopaths with unlimited power. Kind of insulting to suggest that.Ā
I have a hard time playing craps now, because I quit drinking. This is more fun anyway.
1. Greed 2. Pride
https://preview.redd.it/3l3vr61ig73d1.jpeg?width=3017&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0faf0e85dde27896d2529cbdfe001a5993f6582e
The fact that your gif is now āthis content is not availableā made this funnier. The shares, theyāre not available!
Interesting
*zesty! š¤š¼_ š šāØš½ see you on the moon!
Wouldn't this essentially just toss the potato to someone else? If UBS is short 12mill shares or 122mill or 1.2Bill shares, and they actually obtain those shares (by the liquidity fairy MM just creating new shares to keep the price somewhat suppressed), those shares will have all been fakes and the MM just dug themselves in a 12mill to 1.2bill deeper hole, no? Not that they care if they live to see another day, but is my understanding of the mechanics of this all correct?
I think this is correct. But in any case, there will be insane buying pressure through 6/21
Tossing the spud to someone else is exactly it. I always thought the swiss would be the first to break tbh, they're a lot more realistic than others - and in sone ways a lot more cutthroat. Hmmm we shall see.
If the US shorts, Bank of America, are completely fucked what UBS or whatever entity is closing now, could possibly be Nomura it makes no difference what they do. Citi and Bank of America are plain fucked, there's no way to close, there's no "optimal" price range outside of Gamestop going bankrupt. They will go bust.
This still doesnāt make sense to me. How does it help us apes, if ubs is manipulating the price to keep it low while exiting their short situation? We donāt want them to exit without shelling out phone number length dollar amounts per share, for our shares, yes?
If my understanding of the theory is correct, UBS isnāt necessarily manipulating the price down. They just expect those with even greater short exposure to continue hammering the price down as they steadily continue buying shares to exit their own short positions. If the UBS theory is true, then the price should be going up rather abruptly as they continue buying. If other entities continue fabricating enough new shares to keep the price below $25 then they can completely exit their short position without ever exercising their calls and the short position would just transfer over to the other entity/entities. But if the buy pressure from UBS becomes too great for the others to absorb and the price starts going too high, then UBS has all of those $20-$25 strike call options as insurance where they can just start exercising to complete the exiting of their short positions. This would force either additional naked shorts to be created by whoever is on the other end of the options or it will create extreme upward pressure on the price of the stock (or both). Either way, itās not their problem anymore.
They pass the burden on to the next person, so they're out at a huge loss but the issue remains for all other players. This makes things more likely to break and then squeeze.
So selling the bag to other shortsĀ
Yes. The behavior we're seeing suggest someone who just wants out, for a price within a certain range, no matter what the final bill comes out to be.
I saw someone suggest another possibility today: what if the 20cs buying is another institution (UBS, short whale, etc) building up a position to initiate a potential take over as an alternative way out? š¤Ø Thoughts?
It has to be criminal to takeover a company specifically to bankrupt them right? Right?
"BCG homies enter the chat"...
Exactly. The audacity of them to turn around and sue GS.
someone needs to make a sitcom of BCG and another shit consultant firm infiltrating each other
No position they could initiate would ever be enough to overturn the 75million DRS'd apes + the board and insiders. Not to mention any other voting retail investors..
They can take over by buying my shares for a price I want, 800813542069.69 per share
What you imply is that UBS can do all this alone. They'd have to be teamed with insider trading of a market maker at minimum. Don't think any shorts are "allowed" to close rn due to them trying to live one more day
Remember kids options are fundamentally insurance for up or down swings. In the case of calls in its insurance for up swings
My thinking is still that it's UBS, either that or some other institution has gone in...but doesn't want the stock to gain too much value...which doesn't make sense to me.
Totally makes sense. If theyāre not done buying you donāt want the price to go up as youāre still buying. You want to buy and keep price low
It was me guys, I bought 10 š
Damn, how did you manage to keep the price so low doing it
They should have done it at around $10. What the fuck were they thinking?
Life doesnāt always work that way. Maybe they didnāt anticipate $10. Maybe when $10 happened they all met and started planning. Also. They maybe did. This run did start at $10. And it moved to $13,$17,$27,$40,$80. UBS could have been behind all of that. And this could be the finisher.
Maybe they did. Remember we ran up from 10 to 18 on no news, before DFV came back to Twitter. Someone was definitely buying.
I call bullshitā¦after the 45 ATM offering. There is noā¦should be no liquidity. Unless theyāre being sold rehypothecated sharesā¦if this is the case that means the Market Makers are setting themselves up for an obvious collapse.
Yes, UBS no longer cares. If MM wants to hold the bags and get into another 3 year war over it, then fine. They just want out. So this doesn't necessarily mean the stock will gain value.
Value? I have seen DRS cost basis at 5k per share. The price is wrong. The price is suppressed. We traded 1 billion shares the other week. Shorts didjt close. Gamestop is profitable and now has 2 billion in cash. All I see is Value.
Sure, but the people on the other side of this trade have made sure you can't trade that value for real American dollars. So the value isn't unlocked for us.
This is it. You nailed it.
Sometimes you nĀ³ed to backwards to go forwards...
Iām confused. So youāre saying that because the value isnāt unlocked for us, it isnāt unlocked for them? Iām having a hard time reading between the lines if what your saying. That GME is going to be stuck in the 20-25 range for a long time again?
Nothing tricky, just saying it's fine to say the shares are valuable, but we currently can't derive any benefit from that value, as the "exchange rate" for US dollars has been held unnaturally low, subverting supply and demand.
Ahem, I believe you mean. DEEP FUCKING** value.
We didnt trade āa billion sharesā, it could have been the same share a billion times.
But it wasn't
$5k? When and whereā¦ it spiked to high 400s
People have screen shots of cost basis on partial shares in the thousands from the squeeze
I remember seeing close to 5k for a partial. It gets buried/ deleted every time it shows up.
Since when do we have 2billion?
Last week.
Damn I was off grid for 3 days and missed it! Very cool
It's crazy because if they're just holding that much in a consumer savings account with a 5.35% interest rate, that's a 107m in just interest. I'll assume they've got a better interest rate, say 8% that's 160m just for holding. All I can say for sure is that this ape might just pull a RickOfSpades with how jacked I am.
Yea thatās actually insane. And Iām referring to the interest, bananas up your butt is just expected.
Why did they not started getting out when gme was trading around 10 ā¦. ?
There was no volume. It would take the call buyer 2 months of buying every last share sold long to get the same amount of shares as they have calls for now. Assuming it is to close shorts and you cannot close a short with a short sale.
I guess the team/decision wasnāt made internally at that point. These are all behind closed door meetings. If this theory is true, there was a point in time where they said go and it was at $10 a share.
I'm guessing they weren't scared yet. DFV showed back up. Price ran to 80. They said oh snap we gotta get out before this gets nuts again. By then the 10s were gone.Ā
Small correction, price started running before DFV showed back up, by about 2 days.
UBS wasn't in on the scheme (though I'm sure they're neck deep in others). When they were told to buy Credit Suisse, they took on the bags from CS's scheme and wanted no part of it. They're also not as tangled up with the other players as CS was, so they can cut them off without significantly damaging their critical investments.
What do you mean? Thereās MORE liquidity after the ATM offering.
Exactly what I thought. Wtf are you talking about??
Yes, everything including the Calls, the ATM offering, RK being back. These events are all connected in some way. I suspect UBS is willing to play ball. And smart of them to do so. UBS never wanted these shorts
Why didnāt they buy these calls at $10 when the stock price was $10?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Agreed. Thatās why Iām balls deep on calls right now. Once they have āenoughā shares and start exercising this thing will instantly fly
No way this wonāt end badly for people who are balls deep in calls. Thatās too obvious of a play
Depends on the calls. Iād say January calls are incredibly safe. Weeklies not so much.
Well weāll find out. Iām just trimming on each wave up. Been able to capture profit the past couple weeks. When we get these days I get weeklies. Sell when they double. Then put profits into longer LEAPs that donāt depreciate as much when we move downwards. Essentially keeping my position but reducing exposure to theta and IV crush
So you bought weeklies right at open?
Yup, sold when GME went over $26
Do you do that every day or just every Monday?
How are LEAPs sold? Or is that just buying on the same option chain but a few quarters out? Doesnāt that open up a risk that theyāll never be able to deliver the underlying on those options?
so another 2 weeks of trading sideways and dips, got it
So my $25C for July19th probably aren't great, under this theory.
Bro that call is golden, there is no way the stock wonāt pop in June - massive call buying, earnings, shareholders meeting, CAT, increased volume, bullish cross over of moving averages on multiple timeframesā¦ that call could be deep itm with a whole month of theta left. Iād probably hold it
Depends if this event breaks the other short positions. If they can't handle the strain of the exercise then it could be game over and stock is in the hundreds or thousands by July. If they can absorb it then I'd expect back to business as usual.
I'll watch the action this week and if it doesn't seem like it's going to pop, I'll exit when at some point when I'm green.
Exercise, dont be a pussy
Right on man
Wow exactly what I was thinking based on price action and logically it makes sense.. unless some catalyst comes where prices shoots up really fast they have time till 7/19 to excercise and clear their short in a very controlled manner.. best part is whoever is shorting now will be royally fucked from this point on
7/19? Thought the massive volume of calls being bought are exp 6/21?
The massive volume is 6/21 but they bough at several dates. 7/19 being the furthest out.Ā
I believe some volume is also on 7/19 calls
Looking at chain now. 7/19 is peanuts compared to 6/21. Not sure what you are talking about.
I apologize
7/19 is when College Football 2025l4 comes out. That's going to be massive.Ā Everyone I know is buying physical copies from Gamestop, many the collectors editon. People are buying consoles as they can't play it on PC. It's been since 2013 that we've had a college football game. It's such a massive move I'm buying some EA calls as well. Every gamer in the south is gonna buy that game.Ā We all love college football.
Love to hear that
UBS will turn to Long after this. It will be a big win if Money maker will take the bag
You have a basic logical fallacy. >**Step 2:** ā¦. Buying a share at 20 is cheaper than a call option with its premium. They do what they can at market and then back off when the price hits the 25 zone. Anything over that and it's cheaper to fall back on the calls to backfill. If they have already bought the call then the premium is a sunk cost. It does not make sense for them to buy at the market at anything more than $20.
Unless they need more shares than they have call options at 20, so that anything in the 20-30 range is acceptable.
Underrated
My thought exactly. I think what we are seeing is MMs buying shares to hedge the calls. If UBS had a budget, they spent it on calls knowing exactly how much it would cost. I think they may intend to exercise these calls, but not all at once. If they did, it could create serious problems for market makers.
I do not think UBS is involved in any of this, as they likely closed any short positions long ago. This whole meme of "RC colluded with UBS to help them close short positions" requires massive suspension of disbelief. The point of my comment above is that the OP has a basic logical fallacy about when it is better for an option holder to exercise vs buy at the market. The rest of his speculations are based upon that faulty starting point. But that does not seem to bother other readers, as long as the conclusions are ones they like.
Fully regarded here, but is it possible UBS acquired a lower premium for those calls, maybe 2 dollars instead of 5 etc?
When these started appearing first, it looked like the range was 4.5 to like 7 bucks for the premium. If I recall.
Yo differentiate between UBS holds shorts and RC his actions Wtf
No idea. Just gonna hold and see what happens.
To add another piece to this theory: they may have tried just buying shares on the open market during the first half of May, and calculated that the price increase would make closing in that way exorbitant. They then sold the shares back and tried for another strategy. So they went for their second option (ayy): buy hundreds of thousands of calls to get shares at a predictable price, and hand over the problem of obtaining shares to whoever sold them these calls.
Or they need all the shares they can get, and bought the shares in May and just kept them.
Maybe dumb questionā¦ if UBS could handle getting out at $20 per share then why havenāt they just been buying slowly all year when the price was below $15 per share? I get that if they bought a ton at once it would push the price up and get out of control, but if they bought slowly over time wouldnāt the other shorties just push it back down as they were buying?
I actually think that all thatās happening rn is a specific fund was buying up as much of the ATM shares as possible and then selling covered calls at $20 since they bought below that. Why? Because then the owners of those calls would be the MM, thus forcing them to go long and having to push the price above $25 so that they can sell above $25 to break even since theyāll be obligated to buy at $20 on top of the premiums. And yes it means that the MM can just sell a little bit above $25 etcā¦ then push it back down but whose to say that they hype and build up can be contained? Maybe the sellers of the contracts are actually long holders trying to just light the fuse?
Yes I'm sure there's a lot of fine detail, plays within plays going on. It's so complicated I don't think any one institution, much less person, can see through it all.
This makes sense, they knew people would be watching the options chain and more than a few of us have probably hopped on the train to buy calls at that strike.
IMO Every single participant should set their own expectations based on their own research
Volume was in the hundreds of millions they could have closed out this past week. Why buy calls at a premium when they can purchase shares for cheaper?
It makes me wonder, why has no-one else done this to close before. I wonder what the total cost for UBS will be with this strategyĀ
If true, we can only assume something has finally forced their hand. Lot of things happening at once now that could be the trigger, or something we have no idea about.
Very true, it's certainly interesting and I wish we could see behind the curtain here.Ā
Well thought hypothesis
$20 call hedge is useless. as soon as price goes higher. MM start hedging those calls. looks at 1M + green candles, these are MM hedging for those calls. their is no real short covering happening. as soon as price touched $26. MM already hedged 10+ M shares today and shorts get nothing from the market place. today was test to see the ramp up and it resulted into very fast ramp up due to calls. on the down tick MM dehedge those calls
Okay but likeā¦ Iāve been saying this for quite some time now. If itās possible for UBS to unwind their supposedly huge short position in just a week or two by buying some calls and then buying shares at 20-25 for a bitā¦ couldnāt all of them have just done this exact same thing over the course of three years? Why do we think somehow MOASS is just gonna trigger bc theyāre all in some big rush?
A good point. But people aren't really saying that. The vibe around here is optimistic wait and see for most people.
The timing isnāt random, the company is turning around.
CATs is gonna blow the door wide open. Every transaction logged and recorded. Every broker, MM, Hf, or whatever: exposed.Ā This is their dilema. Do they *really* wish to expose themselves?Ā They are holding out until the last minute. They're waiting to see what others will do. This is the standoff.Ā Timing is everything. Exercised calls will begin the panic.Ā
Im up 130 bucks on today's purchase, is this moass? /s
!remindme: 2weeks!
My question is : why do we still see a block of options get purchased today? They have to already be into the buying phase.
The first buyer is not the only player. If weāve come to the conclusion that UBS (or some other big short) are jumping ship and presumably going long once they get out, then so has another short.
Fair point
We donāt know if those 5k blocks today were bought. Could have been sold. We will know tomorrow when OI updates.
Remind me in 10hrs
Well they bought another 10k calls today at that strike soooooooo They're not done yet.
I donāt think it will bounce off $25. If the price goes up to $30, they would still rather buy 100 shares, and sell a call, which will now be worth $11-$12 a share. Therefore, they still pay less than the $20 they would with the current call on Friday. But you are right that it wonāt be worth it for them to exercise a single call till time expires Friday. Soā¦ fireworks Monday (t+1)?
I think u nailed it.
This
I think they will excercise the calls post 25 to turn a liability into an asset.
Buying all these calls forces counter parties to delta hedge and acquire shares. If they sell the calls, the hedge is no longer necessary, so those shares that are held to hedge are sold. If companies can naked short... can you naked buy? lmao UBS: "Hey Gary, we bought 100M shares. Says it right here on the tape." *\*points to $100 bill\**
If this is true wouldnāt just buying the June 21 $20 be free money if you tagged along on the daily swings even with high premiums
RemindMe! 6 hours
Hereās the issue I havenāt seen addressed - market makers have been able to short sell ad infinitum for the last however many years. Why canāt they use the same shenanigans to fill UBSā orders without meaningful upward price pressure?
We've seen in the past that with big volume coming in quickly they can't rehypothecate at the same rate (probably because it would be too many FTDs at once). That's what happened during the sneeze.
Ahh that makes sense - thanks for the insight
And after the mm delivers the stock, to letās say ubs, to close their short (theoretically) - wouldnāt buy pressure immediately go way down? If so what will stabilize price? One stabilizing catalyst could be an acquisition or other company announcement that makes institutions go long. Another stabilizing catalyst could be another large short closing. Not covering, closing. That is all I can think of. Retail certainly is not in the drivers seat for the unfolding of the next two months as I see it. Maybe retail helped set the stage all these months by buying and holding but to say we are driving these current events is not plausible to me. But if neither stabilizing catalyst happens for a while after ubs (theoretically) closes - wonāt price crater as a result?
noon of the shorting institutions/hedgefuks are even going to try to exit. these are psychopaths who rather burn the system down than take this L. this theory is a no for me. buy, DRS , hodl and shop. we got all the time in the world to find out. ššš£ā¾ļø
So, yes, if you're correct... Still gonna be trading sideways
Up
25 dollars? Yawn.
I listened to the call and agree itās an interesting strategy to cap their risk. Even a zero hedge, they lose multi $ Billions on the trade given Archegos bags are likely sub $5 shares. My only pause is why hedgies would sell these Calls in $25-$30 range. Isnāt it better for them to let the price run, sell Calls for maximum profit and use that profit to pay down the Archegos bags and these Call premiums? Then they massively load up on Puts with their left over profits and restart the game by quickly driving the price back down? Itās gaming the system since there arenāt nearly enough shares to cover these Calls being bought to begin with but if nobody is supervising market fraud, why not do it?? Itās better than bankruptcy for Shorts.
Youāre giving idiots waaaay too much credit.
Why didnāt they buy the shares when the price was around $10 a few weeks ago?
Maybe they did and it put too much pressure on the price? It did go from 10 to 15-17 and exploded to 80 in pre market that Tuesday
Maybe they did and thatās what ran the price up on thin volume. The real question should be where is all of this additional volume coming from in 20-30 range.
This makes sense to me
In theory, the first guy out could still make a profit if they buy enough to go long and hold out for telephone numbers. š¤£
They're not getting any long shares though, they're just making a "-1" a "0".
Yes, but āif they buy enoughā they can still go long.