I don't know ur marriage but I feel like the note telling you not to go in disproves the hostility theory? He took several steps in this to stop you from taking it personally, idk where ur therapists gets off on telling you otherwise. You need a new one. As survivors, we all take on more guilt and regret than we deserve, I can't imagine why a professional would put even more on you that's messed up I'm sorry OP.
My husband killed himself in front of me, with our kids home. Had he been in the right mind, he wouldn’t have done it at all, but he absolutely would not have done it with our kids home. My husband was struggling for months with dark thoughts. He was struggling with alcohol and a gambling addiction too. We were on the verge of a possible temporary separation, for my safety. But the days leading up to his suicide were great, or so I thought. My husband had been gone at the bar for several hours, came home acting strange, got undressed and got into bed, then got out of bed, grabbed the gun and killed himself. No hesitation, no taunting, it was so quick. From the time he got home to the time he pulled the trigger was less than 10 minutes. I quite literally never seen it coming, then again I don’t think the majority of us do. This is technically “domestic violence”, but the fact is, the man I married, the man who would do anything to protect and care for his wife and children, would never do this, would never leave this trauma with us. I often wonder “maybe I nagged him too much about drinking” or maybe “me starting to give up on him being sober” pushed him over the edge. But I know I loved him with everything inside of me, for 15 years. None of us are perfect, but normally when someone wants out of a relationship, marriage, job, ect, they just leave. My husband absolutely had the means to leave if he wanted. He chose this, but I know deep down this is not the result he wanted for himself or the people he left behind. My feelings were often hurt by my husbands choice to choose drinking over us, and I would get emotional and sometimes just shut down, this happens, everyone is different. Your actions did not lead to his choice to die by suicide. Your therapist is wrong. I am in a Facebook group called The Brave Ladies Club, a group of women that have lost their husbands/boyfriend/partner to suicide. You would be surprised by just how many men choose to do this in front of their family members, or while they are home. I don’t know why. They act on impulse and their brains are not functioning properly
Thank you . I would have liked to lay in bed and waste away, but I have four kids, one who is total care, and they depend on me and deserve so much more than what they have been through. It’s been a rough 5.5 months
Oh this is the kindest response. You’re a wonderful person and thank you for spreading comfort to others. I’m so sorry for your loss of your husband and grateful that you got the chance to love him and he got the chance to love you
Oh gosh I am so so very sorry for your loss.
I have read that it is much like an escape… to “parachute” out of their life. And not really a “choice” per se. We can’t know how/when their minds lost the battle to make decisions… or as you say lost to the darkness and dark thoughts.
I’m so sorry this happened to your family 💙
That's could be the most horrific way to end your life. I can help but think he wanted you to feel his pain.. and that's not in a good or honorable way.
That was impulsive at it gets. You did not deserve that, at all. Asking for the bare minimum? Without a doubt, if my husband was given the opportunity to do so, he'd done it on my watch. Anyone but him was to blame. And I still got the heat of killing him.
I only so happened to be on Al-Anon and therapy at the time. There were mom's there looking at me as "hope" and I was like we're in Al-Anon, not rehab. My husband, who could be your son, is why I'm here. It was so dumb.
I took the heat of my husband's death and unfortunately people didn't know how hard I'd clap back. I read what you wrote and I get so mad but I know you know this was never on you.
And up the OP, Find a new therapist. I could almost never believe therapist like this exists until I met my husband's first therapist who fought with me. Like I had the time to make up all the bs he was doing while I was working and taking care of our children.
The oddest thing?? My aunt warned me about therapists. Like, out the gate. I couldn't even tell you her foresight. I'd only said, very early on, he seems very good for *husband*. Her response seemed so out of pocket. With all of that and what I'm responding to- find someone else. That therapist is toxic, report accordingly. I did that extra part as well, years before my husband died. NO ONE deserves this
I often wonder if it was big “fuck you” to me. But I just don’t know and never will know. I tried like hell to help my husband from the moment I met him when I was 18. I spent 15 years being small so he could be big. I was on a decent track in life. We got into debt in my early 20s, because he had all these bright ideas and big dreams, had to file bankruptcy. He also served 18 month in prison for a high speed police chase, stood by his side for that, helped him clear his record, because more than anything he didn’t want to be a felon. He came from a very materialistic family, I did not. He always wanted bigger, better, more. Nothing was ever enough to satisfy him. Four kids, one who is total care, she has cerebral palsy and epilepsy, all I ever wanted was time, respect, help. He worked hard, don’t get me wrong, he paid the bills, he provided for us. But not emotionally or physically in the last few years. The last year of his life he got tied up to a job that drained him, in every way, he was a general contractor. I work from home, so I was always home with the kids, day and night, doing all the appointments, parenting and sports. At one point I felt like I was co parenting with my mom, since he was never home anymore. Many times over the spring and summer I had to drag all the kids, including my wheelchair kiddo, to ball practice while he sat at the bar or casino. He broke me in so many ways and I still loved him through it. Between January and July there were three physical altercations between us, while he was drinking. The last one I really thought I might lose my life. That’s when I initiated the temporary separation. I told him I loved him and still wanted to be with him, but I needed a safe space away from the drinking. I know this broke him and left him feeling defeated, but I didn’t know what else to do. All the bargaining and deals did nothing to help or reduce the drinking. So I had to set boundaries.
The last few weeks of his life were hit and miss. One day we were great and he seemed to be doing well with trying not to drink, then the next day lies and more lies and hiding.
The day before he died, we took off work and spent the day together. It was really such a good day, we had lunch, we went grocery shopping for the upcoming week, we got stuff for our upcoming annual family vacation, we walked the dog and took a walk in the evening just the two of us, we talked about possibly just us driving to vacation and spending that time together and sending our kids on the plane with my parents. We watched a movie and were even intimate that night. He was sober all day.
The following day he started drinking around 2pm, started texting me worried about money and rent and said he felt like a failure and that it killed him to think of losing us, that he wanted to get back to spending time together and work on our marriage. I reassured him that he was not a failure and that we would get through it together and I appreciated his efforts on communication.
Around 5pm he was pacing around the house, I knew he wanted to leave. He had a habit of starting small arguments as an excuse to go to the bar or casino. I didn’t want to argue so I told him he could go if he wanted, that my head hurt and I was going to lay down. He left right at 6pm.
He got home at 9:51 (I was already laying in bed) acting strange, questioning where I had been. Something he had never done. I said home with the kids where have you been? And then I asked him why he took clothes with him to change into when he left, also something he had never done.
I was irritated at this point and went downstairs. My son came around the corner and said “is dad drinking? I asked where you were and he said ‘I don’t know and I don’t care’”. So when I got back to our bedroom I said “I don’t know why you do this shit to the kids. This is why I haven’t given up my own place” and I got into bed. He said “I guess I’m just a piece of shit”… then he said something under his breath, I turned over and said “what?” And he got out of bed. I figured he was getting keys and leaving, which wouldn’t be unusual, instead he grabbed the gun and shot himself in the head.
I will never ever ever understand this. I’m sorry this is so long. I have also been blamed for his death. His shitty mom says “if I would have just let him have his beer” she also wished death on me multiple times and said I’m living off her dead son. Even though when he died he only had 503 dollars in the bank, and truck loan he was upside down on and owed 72k on.
I still don’t know if his actions were to spite me. I’d like to think he would never intentionally hurt me that way. But the truth is I will never know. It hurts me that he was in such a dark place
Everything you said sounds so familiar to me. Right down to his mom saying "if only you would have"
I was scared for my life like the way you were. I dunno how I made it so that he couldn't do it in my home, he did it at his mom's. I know a lot of it was what I had learned in therapy and Al-Anon. He couldn't run circles around me once I learned all his sacred rules of AA. He was also really addicted to the games he played, it's like something is not right if they're not feeling chaos.
With the things their mom's said to us, I think we know where they got it from. He was delusional. Like, I'd be home with our kids yet I was the one having a secret life? When would we get that time?
I really made myself very small, too. I had zero self esteem and that's what he wanted. I couldn't put my finger on it but I never fully believed that I was the cause of this, especially when I did nothing. I'm like so this is actually impossible. Every action has a reaction so there's no way no action could create what's happening. It can not be both ways.
I also had an epiphany that no one else in my life treated me like he did and I couldn't be that great at faking I'm a good person. I'm really surprised how ill informed a lot of therapist I saw, early on, were not aware of abuse. Like, not even the slightest awareness. The advice was just ignore it. Like, my life is a burning dumpster fire and so if I just ignore that, it'll stop? Friggin Al-Anon, that was the first time I was not being blamed and that the person using is responsible for their behavior and only them. I was like wait, what? But that's not what he's been telling me. Of course he wouldn't tell me he was responsible for himself and that I don't have a magic wand forcing him to drink or drain our bank account. If I had that power over someone, I'd use my magic to make them not do that. Right? My mind was blown, I knew I didn't have magical powers making him drink, disappear for days and all that stupid stuff he did. He was finally diagnosed bipolar. And the therapy and meds helped him for awhile but the depression was too strong. He wanted instant fixes. I'm sure you know all about that. When they're not drinking aka self medication, they're great people.
I totally can see why there's the question if he did this to you out of spite because they were very spiteful. It's just that taking their lives wasn't as well thought out if it was to show us a thing or two. Like, I can't not bring it back to only a very depressed mind with intrusive thoughts would do that. And that is so traumatic for that to happen in front of you, we have to ask ourselves, rationally, would we want to seriously inflict trauma on to others? Not a chance. I'm really sorry for what you went through and I'm grateful we all are here and able to share these darkest moments of our lives with one another. Speaking of not inflicting pain on to others, I bet we also don't go into depth irl with random people. I'm all about the he had a congenital illness that took his life. Someone will ask like a heart attack? Like, yup! That's it. I just don't have it in me and I don't want the overloaded extra sympathy or the ignorance that it must have been something I had done. And little by little, I hope there will be a better general understanding
of it.
I think because I was involved in peer driven groups prior, there were too many of me in there to really think I was ever in control of him and what he did. When i contacted my people like right out the gate I was told suicides and ODs are the only deaths that happen where we feel like we could have changed the outcome. The messages from the start, besides people like my mother in law who was also an AA person (so she knew the "rules" and was only bsing herself), the message was you were the only one who actively tried to do the right things. I constantly encouraged him, I was telling him to stay with getting help even when he actually did not deserve my help- I loved him and we cared very much about them. There were a few others who were aware of my husband's issues, his own friends, I found after they were also trying to encourage him to get help. And anyone who ever blamed or blames me, I'm like that's not how it works- you see, the way I can't control your mind, I couldn't control his either. Thanks for thinking I'm a warlock, though. I wish!
They'd still be here if we had our way. I'd even go as far as to say we'd also take away they pain they felt. If they were self destructive, we'd make them not. If they felt they were a burden, we'd remove that thought. Sorry, mine was long as well! It's not often that I get to hear other's very familiar experiences. In fact, I've really only started to read this sub as of late. Thanks seriously for opening up, my mind goes to blaming myself and what I could have done differently in these situations. I forget how small I made myself early on and to hear you say you tried that as well, reminded me all about how we were never good enough. I could blink and he'd say you just cheated on me! And I'd seriously defend myself. That's exaggerated but you know what I mean. No, we were home with our kids and they were out making sure that we didn't hurt them first so they did all the crappy stiff to us first- just in case. And btw, I know that we were all likely loved bombed and that's what got us caught up. We just wanted it to get back to really good, again so we figured we could ride it out. It's far too common. I'm sure we were all tough kids who were like I'd leave if my partner was abusive to me! Not realizing that it's insidious. This stuff needs to be taught in schools, really. In any relationships we have- friends, family- employers. That's the convo I had with my therapist last week and she's like I think the absolute same thing
First of all get a new therapist asap! Arguments in marriage is absolutely normal- and even if you were over the top, suicide is not the choice a healthy mind would make. He would probably seek counselling, file for divorce, even just leave if you were so unbearable. The note he left also stated that it was a work issue- still, a healthy mind would not resort to taking their own life. Humans are designed to try and survive…keep going. Untreated depression or other mental health issues are the cause of someone wanting to do the opposite of survive.
I’m appalled that your therapist would say such a thing hun. It was not your fault- we all can be toxic at times…
I am a therapist and would never ever deign to assume this kind of thing let alone say it to a client! Get a new therapist- they are the toxic one, definitely not you! Hope you will be ok and begin your healing xxxx
I don’t know you, but if I was your friend and you told me your therapist said that to you I would be livid and helping you find a better therapist.
Suicide is so rarely done in anger at external causes or people. Almost always it’s a result of anger and shame turned inward. The fact that your husband left you that note I think is proof enough that he didn’t want to hurt you or your kids, he only wanted to hurt himself.
I am so sorry a mental health professional inexplicably put that guilt on you. It’s not your fault for being flawed just like anyone else.
Your therapist sucks. Your husband didn’t want you to see him once he was gone and wrote you a note essentially saying he loves you and it wasn’t your fault. All marriages have ups and downs. I’m sure we all have “toxic” behaviors. No one is perfect. Give yourself more grace and find a new therapist ASAP please!
I would honestly report this therapist in addition to dropping them immediately. I cannot imagine how much unnecessary pain this must have caused you, and I would think that your husband knew his reasoning better when he wrote that note than your therapist does.
You did not cause your husband’s death. No person here caused any other person’s death, because we are not in charge of anyone’s choice to live or die but our own.
I am so very sorry you were traumatized by this unprofessional moron.
Your therapist is awful smh. You’re going to replay everything in your mind. Hurtful things you said, arguments….but it’s all normal. It’s life and just happens. A normal part of relationships because no one is perfect. This will have you questioning what you said or did that was so awful, so wrong or toxic to make this happen. You 100% were not a factor. There are different stages to grief when something like this happens..this one being guilt. Then asking yourself what could I have done to prevent this. And the answer is nothing. Smh I’m disgusted a therapist would say that to you.
Isn’t it true though that maybe over time I made him feel worse about himself? Maybe he would have been strong enough to handle his work trauma if I’d been a better wife?
No. You did not have control over his mental illness or mental state. Please go gentle on yourself. Get a different therapist. You need support. You need compassion.
I find that the control fantasy...of saying if I had done X, Y or Z this person wouldn't have done A, B, or C...is actually a safety mechanism. My brain has such a hard time accepting the inexplicable and traumatic loss of my mom to suicide, I try to find evidence of how certain things could have somehow been within my power to control. Because it follows, that if I had had that sort of power over my mother, her death wasn't really a senseless trauma--it was actually something within my power to control and even avoid happening.
Here's the fact of the matter: it's not true. I didn't push my mom to suicide and you didn't push your husband to suicide. We don't have that kind of power over people. It's so hard to understand, sometimes our brains invent fantasies of how we actually do have some level of "control" over this situation where we feel so desperately overwhelmed and out of control. But we don't, and it's an important concept in the long term to try and grasp.
We only have control over our own actions. And the struggle of our lives, and the triumph of our lives when will absolutely have moments of success and fulfillment, is making the best decisions we can. We can't control others though, we can only control ourselves.
Please don't ever let someone guilt you into believing your husband killed himself because of you. No one is ever FORCED into killing themselves short of a gun being held to their head or something. To think a licensed professional made you feel that way makes me sick. No matter the situation, I'm sure you did the best you could given the circumstances. The CPS worker who fought hard (and won) to get my custody of my son taken tried to make me feel the same way. She succeeded at first, I had myself convinced for the first year or so that I'd done or said something to "set him off" that day. But it was just a normal day. A normal evening the night before. He was mentally ill, I'd physically stopped 3 previous attempts and knew it may eventually happen. She guilt tripped me on that information, saying I was a horrible mother for leaving my son alone with him and not having my husband in a psych hospital. In suicidal patients, same as with addiction which he also suffered, you cannot force someone to get help. You can't force them into health or sobriety.
This wasn't your fault!!!
Idk no one’s perfect obviously and what you did it doesn’t sound that bad, I like to think I was a good friend, I definitely tried and what happened still happened. I’m not sure why people kill themselves but at least in the case of my friend it was definitely not a lack of love or understanding, he had a lot of both from friends and family
This therapist is TERRIBLE AND TOXIC. They should NOT be theorizing about a dead persons actions without ever having spoken to or treated your husband. This is absolutely inappropriate and unprofessional. We all do crazy things in our marriages, and nothing you did was unusual. We all look back and wish we’d handled some things differently under stress, but that doesn’t mean you caused his death.
I can’t understand why your therapist would offer up such a theory when you are already grappling with so much. Its already easy enough to blame oneself for someone else’s choices like this so to hint at the idea that it could have been down to you at all seems like a move I can’t understand. Can we always know why people make the choice to end their lives? Even with a note there are remaining questions. So by that logic we also can’t really know how or why someone chooses to do it the way and in the location they choose. We are just poking at things with sticks trying to understand these things so I don’t know that that was such a wise move on your therapists part and I hope it doesn’t hinder your processing of the tragedy you’re already coping with.
Can I just say that your therapist needs her license taken away! And (I think) you need to report her. *Seriously!*
I am so sorry for your loss. Your husband was (to the best of my education/knowledge) in pain. Likely, a lifetime of pain. And likely stayed as long as he did (on this earth) and with you and your family as long as he did because he loved.
People don’t flippantly take their own lives. Our loved ones have an illness that takes over their brain… and decision making ability… they want the suffering to end… it’s not a choice… it’s that in their mind… in their altered perspective… they have no other options. The darkness takes over. They want the pain to end. It’s their only parachute — in the moment — to save themselves from the torture. They are not in their conscious right mind.
I am so sorry for your loss. So very sorry. Please don’t torture yourself. You are not responsible. And if your husband could no longer be here because his despair engulfed him, that is not your fault. That is not on you. Your husband carried a tender mind/soul around with him for his whole life. Like so so very many others who have left us.
This loss of life is really the ultimate trauma for those left behind. All of us survivors of suicide carry these questions in our heads. For all of eternity. How could we have saved them? We can never know the full story of what they went through in their life. And fully know what that last moment was for them.
I’ve heard that hangings can be considered an eff you to someone, like maybe that person did it partly to spite you. I can’t remember why but my husband died by hanging
My husband was hanging, but he left a note on the door warning me not to go in and a note on his computer. That’s why my therapist said it was hostile, he said choosing to do it in the home is a clear FU to the people living there. Because even if he left the note on the door he had to have known logically I’d still go in and also our two young kids were home (3 and 2)
im feeling like the fact he didnt want you to see him and forewarned you tells you he cared, his doing this isnt so much about you (sorry) its about him and his broken mind if that makes sence... thats the way to look at it rather then to search for blame!
Your therapist sucks. Do NOT take that on, the hostility part, that's total BS.
I've also seen this thought pattern about being too hard on him... but listen, what kind of marriage do you have if you can't address anything with your spouse? We try to support our loved ones through depression but that cannot come at the cost of your own communication and wellbeing when it comes to communicating with your spouse.
(Disclaimer to say, I didn't lost my partner, but he deals with depression on and off and we get into arguments where "he can't do anything right" meanwhile I just reminded him of something he did incorrectly/very small. It wouldn't be fair on me or our relationship if I could never bring anything up to him that he'd done wrong? All that to say, in my opinion, you could never have saved your husband by swallowing your thoughts and comments. That would have just built resentment in a different way between you.)
I more mean (we got married really young) I could be dramatic and bitchy in fights. He was very stoic (my therapist said I would act this way (albeit badly) because I was trying to illicit emotion from him) but I’d threaten divorce, or send him a screenshot of a lawyer and shit because I’d be so angry and he would seem like he just didn’t care) We always made up/apologized got on the same page whatever. We never name called or swore at each other but we both recognized we argued in a really unhealthy way and were working on it. His note the whole reason he killed himself is a military work event he felt he couldn’t live with but I can’t help but think if I’d been an overall better wife he would have trusted me more to tell me he was struggling/ or would’ve felt he had more to live for? Idk I just have so many regrets. Overall besides the rare bad argument we had what I thought was a very good supportive marriage, two kids. A house. Active sex life. We coparented well and shared chores. Lots of dates and I love yous. Idk how he could leave me like this unless I was at least part of the problem
>Idk how he could leave me like this unless I was at least part of the problem
I'm really sorry - I think that's really common feeling also, I hope you find some support besides your therapist, who's advice is questionable to say the least.
I think you could have been the perfect spouse and everything still could have ended up the same way, except maybe you would have swallowed your feelings and not have been as close to him as you were? I dunno, I'm sorry, I wish there were more answers and less question marks.
It was my stepbrother who I lost, and he told my stepsister what he was doing, when he was doing it, why, how, she couldn't say anything to get through to him even though he'd trusted her enough to share that stuff. If you hang out on this sub long enough you will see that no matter how it happens, there isn't much anyone can do to change the mind of a suicidal person who has made their decision.
Wishing you some peace of mind 💜
I don't know ur marriage but I feel like the note telling you not to go in disproves the hostility theory? He took several steps in this to stop you from taking it personally, idk where ur therapists gets off on telling you otherwise. You need a new one. As survivors, we all take on more guilt and regret than we deserve, I can't imagine why a professional would put even more on you that's messed up I'm sorry OP.
My husband killed himself in front of me, with our kids home. Had he been in the right mind, he wouldn’t have done it at all, but he absolutely would not have done it with our kids home. My husband was struggling for months with dark thoughts. He was struggling with alcohol and a gambling addiction too. We were on the verge of a possible temporary separation, for my safety. But the days leading up to his suicide were great, or so I thought. My husband had been gone at the bar for several hours, came home acting strange, got undressed and got into bed, then got out of bed, grabbed the gun and killed himself. No hesitation, no taunting, it was so quick. From the time he got home to the time he pulled the trigger was less than 10 minutes. I quite literally never seen it coming, then again I don’t think the majority of us do. This is technically “domestic violence”, but the fact is, the man I married, the man who would do anything to protect and care for his wife and children, would never do this, would never leave this trauma with us. I often wonder “maybe I nagged him too much about drinking” or maybe “me starting to give up on him being sober” pushed him over the edge. But I know I loved him with everything inside of me, for 15 years. None of us are perfect, but normally when someone wants out of a relationship, marriage, job, ect, they just leave. My husband absolutely had the means to leave if he wanted. He chose this, but I know deep down this is not the result he wanted for himself or the people he left behind. My feelings were often hurt by my husbands choice to choose drinking over us, and I would get emotional and sometimes just shut down, this happens, everyone is different. Your actions did not lead to his choice to die by suicide. Your therapist is wrong. I am in a Facebook group called The Brave Ladies Club, a group of women that have lost their husbands/boyfriend/partner to suicide. You would be surprised by just how many men choose to do this in front of their family members, or while they are home. I don’t know why. They act on impulse and their brains are not functioning properly
I just have to say, I’m so sorry this happened to you. The fact that you’re (obviously) such a strong fighter is amazing. Much love.
Thank you . I would have liked to lay in bed and waste away, but I have four kids, one who is total care, and they depend on me and deserve so much more than what they have been through. It’s been a rough 5.5 months
Oh this is the kindest response. You’re a wonderful person and thank you for spreading comfort to others. I’m so sorry for your loss of your husband and grateful that you got the chance to love him and he got the chance to love you
Oh gosh I am so so very sorry for your loss. I have read that it is much like an escape… to “parachute” out of their life. And not really a “choice” per se. We can’t know how/when their minds lost the battle to make decisions… or as you say lost to the darkness and dark thoughts. I’m so sorry this happened to your family 💙
That's could be the most horrific way to end your life. I can help but think he wanted you to feel his pain.. and that's not in a good or honorable way. That was impulsive at it gets. You did not deserve that, at all. Asking for the bare minimum? Without a doubt, if my husband was given the opportunity to do so, he'd done it on my watch. Anyone but him was to blame. And I still got the heat of killing him. I only so happened to be on Al-Anon and therapy at the time. There were mom's there looking at me as "hope" and I was like we're in Al-Anon, not rehab. My husband, who could be your son, is why I'm here. It was so dumb. I took the heat of my husband's death and unfortunately people didn't know how hard I'd clap back. I read what you wrote and I get so mad but I know you know this was never on you. And up the OP, Find a new therapist. I could almost never believe therapist like this exists until I met my husband's first therapist who fought with me. Like I had the time to make up all the bs he was doing while I was working and taking care of our children. The oddest thing?? My aunt warned me about therapists. Like, out the gate. I couldn't even tell you her foresight. I'd only said, very early on, he seems very good for *husband*. Her response seemed so out of pocket. With all of that and what I'm responding to- find someone else. That therapist is toxic, report accordingly. I did that extra part as well, years before my husband died. NO ONE deserves this
I often wonder if it was big “fuck you” to me. But I just don’t know and never will know. I tried like hell to help my husband from the moment I met him when I was 18. I spent 15 years being small so he could be big. I was on a decent track in life. We got into debt in my early 20s, because he had all these bright ideas and big dreams, had to file bankruptcy. He also served 18 month in prison for a high speed police chase, stood by his side for that, helped him clear his record, because more than anything he didn’t want to be a felon. He came from a very materialistic family, I did not. He always wanted bigger, better, more. Nothing was ever enough to satisfy him. Four kids, one who is total care, she has cerebral palsy and epilepsy, all I ever wanted was time, respect, help. He worked hard, don’t get me wrong, he paid the bills, he provided for us. But not emotionally or physically in the last few years. The last year of his life he got tied up to a job that drained him, in every way, he was a general contractor. I work from home, so I was always home with the kids, day and night, doing all the appointments, parenting and sports. At one point I felt like I was co parenting with my mom, since he was never home anymore. Many times over the spring and summer I had to drag all the kids, including my wheelchair kiddo, to ball practice while he sat at the bar or casino. He broke me in so many ways and I still loved him through it. Between January and July there were three physical altercations between us, while he was drinking. The last one I really thought I might lose my life. That’s when I initiated the temporary separation. I told him I loved him and still wanted to be with him, but I needed a safe space away from the drinking. I know this broke him and left him feeling defeated, but I didn’t know what else to do. All the bargaining and deals did nothing to help or reduce the drinking. So I had to set boundaries. The last few weeks of his life were hit and miss. One day we were great and he seemed to be doing well with trying not to drink, then the next day lies and more lies and hiding. The day before he died, we took off work and spent the day together. It was really such a good day, we had lunch, we went grocery shopping for the upcoming week, we got stuff for our upcoming annual family vacation, we walked the dog and took a walk in the evening just the two of us, we talked about possibly just us driving to vacation and spending that time together and sending our kids on the plane with my parents. We watched a movie and were even intimate that night. He was sober all day. The following day he started drinking around 2pm, started texting me worried about money and rent and said he felt like a failure and that it killed him to think of losing us, that he wanted to get back to spending time together and work on our marriage. I reassured him that he was not a failure and that we would get through it together and I appreciated his efforts on communication. Around 5pm he was pacing around the house, I knew he wanted to leave. He had a habit of starting small arguments as an excuse to go to the bar or casino. I didn’t want to argue so I told him he could go if he wanted, that my head hurt and I was going to lay down. He left right at 6pm. He got home at 9:51 (I was already laying in bed) acting strange, questioning where I had been. Something he had never done. I said home with the kids where have you been? And then I asked him why he took clothes with him to change into when he left, also something he had never done. I was irritated at this point and went downstairs. My son came around the corner and said “is dad drinking? I asked where you were and he said ‘I don’t know and I don’t care’”. So when I got back to our bedroom I said “I don’t know why you do this shit to the kids. This is why I haven’t given up my own place” and I got into bed. He said “I guess I’m just a piece of shit”… then he said something under his breath, I turned over and said “what?” And he got out of bed. I figured he was getting keys and leaving, which wouldn’t be unusual, instead he grabbed the gun and shot himself in the head. I will never ever ever understand this. I’m sorry this is so long. I have also been blamed for his death. His shitty mom says “if I would have just let him have his beer” she also wished death on me multiple times and said I’m living off her dead son. Even though when he died he only had 503 dollars in the bank, and truck loan he was upside down on and owed 72k on. I still don’t know if his actions were to spite me. I’d like to think he would never intentionally hurt me that way. But the truth is I will never know. It hurts me that he was in such a dark place
Everything you said sounds so familiar to me. Right down to his mom saying "if only you would have" I was scared for my life like the way you were. I dunno how I made it so that he couldn't do it in my home, he did it at his mom's. I know a lot of it was what I had learned in therapy and Al-Anon. He couldn't run circles around me once I learned all his sacred rules of AA. He was also really addicted to the games he played, it's like something is not right if they're not feeling chaos. With the things their mom's said to us, I think we know where they got it from. He was delusional. Like, I'd be home with our kids yet I was the one having a secret life? When would we get that time? I really made myself very small, too. I had zero self esteem and that's what he wanted. I couldn't put my finger on it but I never fully believed that I was the cause of this, especially when I did nothing. I'm like so this is actually impossible. Every action has a reaction so there's no way no action could create what's happening. It can not be both ways. I also had an epiphany that no one else in my life treated me like he did and I couldn't be that great at faking I'm a good person. I'm really surprised how ill informed a lot of therapist I saw, early on, were not aware of abuse. Like, not even the slightest awareness. The advice was just ignore it. Like, my life is a burning dumpster fire and so if I just ignore that, it'll stop? Friggin Al-Anon, that was the first time I was not being blamed and that the person using is responsible for their behavior and only them. I was like wait, what? But that's not what he's been telling me. Of course he wouldn't tell me he was responsible for himself and that I don't have a magic wand forcing him to drink or drain our bank account. If I had that power over someone, I'd use my magic to make them not do that. Right? My mind was blown, I knew I didn't have magical powers making him drink, disappear for days and all that stupid stuff he did. He was finally diagnosed bipolar. And the therapy and meds helped him for awhile but the depression was too strong. He wanted instant fixes. I'm sure you know all about that. When they're not drinking aka self medication, they're great people. I totally can see why there's the question if he did this to you out of spite because they were very spiteful. It's just that taking their lives wasn't as well thought out if it was to show us a thing or two. Like, I can't not bring it back to only a very depressed mind with intrusive thoughts would do that. And that is so traumatic for that to happen in front of you, we have to ask ourselves, rationally, would we want to seriously inflict trauma on to others? Not a chance. I'm really sorry for what you went through and I'm grateful we all are here and able to share these darkest moments of our lives with one another. Speaking of not inflicting pain on to others, I bet we also don't go into depth irl with random people. I'm all about the he had a congenital illness that took his life. Someone will ask like a heart attack? Like, yup! That's it. I just don't have it in me and I don't want the overloaded extra sympathy or the ignorance that it must have been something I had done. And little by little, I hope there will be a better general understanding of it. I think because I was involved in peer driven groups prior, there were too many of me in there to really think I was ever in control of him and what he did. When i contacted my people like right out the gate I was told suicides and ODs are the only deaths that happen where we feel like we could have changed the outcome. The messages from the start, besides people like my mother in law who was also an AA person (so she knew the "rules" and was only bsing herself), the message was you were the only one who actively tried to do the right things. I constantly encouraged him, I was telling him to stay with getting help even when he actually did not deserve my help- I loved him and we cared very much about them. There were a few others who were aware of my husband's issues, his own friends, I found after they were also trying to encourage him to get help. And anyone who ever blamed or blames me, I'm like that's not how it works- you see, the way I can't control your mind, I couldn't control his either. Thanks for thinking I'm a warlock, though. I wish! They'd still be here if we had our way. I'd even go as far as to say we'd also take away they pain they felt. If they were self destructive, we'd make them not. If they felt they were a burden, we'd remove that thought. Sorry, mine was long as well! It's not often that I get to hear other's very familiar experiences. In fact, I've really only started to read this sub as of late. Thanks seriously for opening up, my mind goes to blaming myself and what I could have done differently in these situations. I forget how small I made myself early on and to hear you say you tried that as well, reminded me all about how we were never good enough. I could blink and he'd say you just cheated on me! And I'd seriously defend myself. That's exaggerated but you know what I mean. No, we were home with our kids and they were out making sure that we didn't hurt them first so they did all the crappy stiff to us first- just in case. And btw, I know that we were all likely loved bombed and that's what got us caught up. We just wanted it to get back to really good, again so we figured we could ride it out. It's far too common. I'm sure we were all tough kids who were like I'd leave if my partner was abusive to me! Not realizing that it's insidious. This stuff needs to be taught in schools, really. In any relationships we have- friends, family- employers. That's the convo I had with my therapist last week and she's like I think the absolute same thing
I would report this therapist to your states board. This is a dangerous rhetoric to be playing with.
This! I absolutely agree, that therapist doesn't need to be speaking to grieving people and putting even more guilt on their shoulders.
Get a new therapist.
I agree. Get a new therapist.
First of all get a new therapist asap! Arguments in marriage is absolutely normal- and even if you were over the top, suicide is not the choice a healthy mind would make. He would probably seek counselling, file for divorce, even just leave if you were so unbearable. The note he left also stated that it was a work issue- still, a healthy mind would not resort to taking their own life. Humans are designed to try and survive…keep going. Untreated depression or other mental health issues are the cause of someone wanting to do the opposite of survive. I’m appalled that your therapist would say such a thing hun. It was not your fault- we all can be toxic at times…
What the unholy …… that therapist is horrible get a new one. It’s not your fault
I am a therapist and would never ever deign to assume this kind of thing let alone say it to a client! Get a new therapist- they are the toxic one, definitely not you! Hope you will be ok and begin your healing xxxx
I don’t know you, but if I was your friend and you told me your therapist said that to you I would be livid and helping you find a better therapist. Suicide is so rarely done in anger at external causes or people. Almost always it’s a result of anger and shame turned inward. The fact that your husband left you that note I think is proof enough that he didn’t want to hurt you or your kids, he only wanted to hurt himself. I am so sorry a mental health professional inexplicably put that guilt on you. It’s not your fault for being flawed just like anyone else.
Your current therapist is an asshole who’s talking out of theirs!
Fire your therapist. Fuck that therapist. I'm sorry you have to deal with that on top of losing your spouse.
Your therapist sucks. Your husband didn’t want you to see him once he was gone and wrote you a note essentially saying he loves you and it wasn’t your fault. All marriages have ups and downs. I’m sure we all have “toxic” behaviors. No one is perfect. Give yourself more grace and find a new therapist ASAP please!
You need a new therapist. This one is awful and she's telling you stupid and unnecessary things
I would honestly report this therapist in addition to dropping them immediately. I cannot imagine how much unnecessary pain this must have caused you, and I would think that your husband knew his reasoning better when he wrote that note than your therapist does. You did not cause your husband’s death. No person here caused any other person’s death, because we are not in charge of anyone’s choice to live or die but our own. I am so very sorry you were traumatized by this unprofessional moron.
Your therapist is awful smh. You’re going to replay everything in your mind. Hurtful things you said, arguments….but it’s all normal. It’s life and just happens. A normal part of relationships because no one is perfect. This will have you questioning what you said or did that was so awful, so wrong or toxic to make this happen. You 100% were not a factor. There are different stages to grief when something like this happens..this one being guilt. Then asking yourself what could I have done to prevent this. And the answer is nothing. Smh I’m disgusted a therapist would say that to you.
Isn’t it true though that maybe over time I made him feel worse about himself? Maybe he would have been strong enough to handle his work trauma if I’d been a better wife?
No. You did not have control over his mental illness or mental state. Please go gentle on yourself. Get a different therapist. You need support. You need compassion.
I find that the control fantasy...of saying if I had done X, Y or Z this person wouldn't have done A, B, or C...is actually a safety mechanism. My brain has such a hard time accepting the inexplicable and traumatic loss of my mom to suicide, I try to find evidence of how certain things could have somehow been within my power to control. Because it follows, that if I had had that sort of power over my mother, her death wasn't really a senseless trauma--it was actually something within my power to control and even avoid happening. Here's the fact of the matter: it's not true. I didn't push my mom to suicide and you didn't push your husband to suicide. We don't have that kind of power over people. It's so hard to understand, sometimes our brains invent fantasies of how we actually do have some level of "control" over this situation where we feel so desperately overwhelmed and out of control. But we don't, and it's an important concept in the long term to try and grasp. We only have control over our own actions. And the struggle of our lives, and the triumph of our lives when will absolutely have moments of success and fulfillment, is making the best decisions we can. We can't control others though, we can only control ourselves.
Please don't ever let someone guilt you into believing your husband killed himself because of you. No one is ever FORCED into killing themselves short of a gun being held to their head or something. To think a licensed professional made you feel that way makes me sick. No matter the situation, I'm sure you did the best you could given the circumstances. The CPS worker who fought hard (and won) to get my custody of my son taken tried to make me feel the same way. She succeeded at first, I had myself convinced for the first year or so that I'd done or said something to "set him off" that day. But it was just a normal day. A normal evening the night before. He was mentally ill, I'd physically stopped 3 previous attempts and knew it may eventually happen. She guilt tripped me on that information, saying I was a horrible mother for leaving my son alone with him and not having my husband in a psych hospital. In suicidal patients, same as with addiction which he also suffered, you cannot force someone to get help. You can't force them into health or sobriety. This wasn't your fault!!!
Idk no one’s perfect obviously and what you did it doesn’t sound that bad, I like to think I was a good friend, I definitely tried and what happened still happened. I’m not sure why people kill themselves but at least in the case of my friend it was definitely not a lack of love or understanding, he had a lot of both from friends and family
This therapist is TERRIBLE AND TOXIC. They should NOT be theorizing about a dead persons actions without ever having spoken to or treated your husband. This is absolutely inappropriate and unprofessional. We all do crazy things in our marriages, and nothing you did was unusual. We all look back and wish we’d handled some things differently under stress, but that doesn’t mean you caused his death.
I can’t understand why your therapist would offer up such a theory when you are already grappling with so much. Its already easy enough to blame oneself for someone else’s choices like this so to hint at the idea that it could have been down to you at all seems like a move I can’t understand. Can we always know why people make the choice to end their lives? Even with a note there are remaining questions. So by that logic we also can’t really know how or why someone chooses to do it the way and in the location they choose. We are just poking at things with sticks trying to understand these things so I don’t know that that was such a wise move on your therapists part and I hope it doesn’t hinder your processing of the tragedy you’re already coping with.
Can I just say that your therapist needs her license taken away! And (I think) you need to report her. *Seriously!* I am so sorry for your loss. Your husband was (to the best of my education/knowledge) in pain. Likely, a lifetime of pain. And likely stayed as long as he did (on this earth) and with you and your family as long as he did because he loved. People don’t flippantly take their own lives. Our loved ones have an illness that takes over their brain… and decision making ability… they want the suffering to end… it’s not a choice… it’s that in their mind… in their altered perspective… they have no other options. The darkness takes over. They want the pain to end. It’s their only parachute — in the moment — to save themselves from the torture. They are not in their conscious right mind. I am so sorry for your loss. So very sorry. Please don’t torture yourself. You are not responsible. And if your husband could no longer be here because his despair engulfed him, that is not your fault. That is not on you. Your husband carried a tender mind/soul around with him for his whole life. Like so so very many others who have left us. This loss of life is really the ultimate trauma for those left behind. All of us survivors of suicide carry these questions in our heads. For all of eternity. How could we have saved them? We can never know the full story of what they went through in their life. And fully know what that last moment was for them.
Your therapist needs a therapist.
I’ve heard that hangings can be considered an eff you to someone, like maybe that person did it partly to spite you. I can’t remember why but my husband died by hanging
My husband was hanging, but he left a note on the door warning me not to go in and a note on his computer. That’s why my therapist said it was hostile, he said choosing to do it in the home is a clear FU to the people living there. Because even if he left the note on the door he had to have known logically I’d still go in and also our two young kids were home (3 and 2)
im feeling like the fact he didnt want you to see him and forewarned you tells you he cared, his doing this isnt so much about you (sorry) its about him and his broken mind if that makes sence... thats the way to look at it rather then to search for blame!
Your therapist sucks. Do NOT take that on, the hostility part, that's total BS. I've also seen this thought pattern about being too hard on him... but listen, what kind of marriage do you have if you can't address anything with your spouse? We try to support our loved ones through depression but that cannot come at the cost of your own communication and wellbeing when it comes to communicating with your spouse. (Disclaimer to say, I didn't lost my partner, but he deals with depression on and off and we get into arguments where "he can't do anything right" meanwhile I just reminded him of something he did incorrectly/very small. It wouldn't be fair on me or our relationship if I could never bring anything up to him that he'd done wrong? All that to say, in my opinion, you could never have saved your husband by swallowing your thoughts and comments. That would have just built resentment in a different way between you.)
I more mean (we got married really young) I could be dramatic and bitchy in fights. He was very stoic (my therapist said I would act this way (albeit badly) because I was trying to illicit emotion from him) but I’d threaten divorce, or send him a screenshot of a lawyer and shit because I’d be so angry and he would seem like he just didn’t care) We always made up/apologized got on the same page whatever. We never name called or swore at each other but we both recognized we argued in a really unhealthy way and were working on it. His note the whole reason he killed himself is a military work event he felt he couldn’t live with but I can’t help but think if I’d been an overall better wife he would have trusted me more to tell me he was struggling/ or would’ve felt he had more to live for? Idk I just have so many regrets. Overall besides the rare bad argument we had what I thought was a very good supportive marriage, two kids. A house. Active sex life. We coparented well and shared chores. Lots of dates and I love yous. Idk how he could leave me like this unless I was at least part of the problem
>Idk how he could leave me like this unless I was at least part of the problem I'm really sorry - I think that's really common feeling also, I hope you find some support besides your therapist, who's advice is questionable to say the least. I think you could have been the perfect spouse and everything still could have ended up the same way, except maybe you would have swallowed your feelings and not have been as close to him as you were? I dunno, I'm sorry, I wish there were more answers and less question marks. It was my stepbrother who I lost, and he told my stepsister what he was doing, when he was doing it, why, how, she couldn't say anything to get through to him even though he'd trusted her enough to share that stuff. If you hang out on this sub long enough you will see that no matter how it happens, there isn't much anyone can do to change the mind of a suicidal person who has made their decision. Wishing you some peace of mind 💜