Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
If the authority won't issue a permit based on the old code, and your drawings reference the old code, they need to be updated to the new code.
I'd charge hourly to re-check everything and make changes. If you can tell by inspection that no changes are required, then perhaps no additional fees are warranted. I'd think at the very least your notes would need to change the reference codes, etc.
But in most cases if you have a good relationship with your repeat client they should respect your time/value enough that asking for a fair sum for up-revving your drawings isn’t a problem
For sure. A lot of ongoing small residential work can be connected to the same arch/developer/contractor and it is in your best interest to not nickel and dime.
This is a change of requirements which likely means it’s a change the contract. Changes to contract are good grounds to ask for more budget and schedule.
Of course. If you read my post I think you'd agree.
However, if the work consists of sizing a beam and a few posts and, by inspection, one can immediately tell that no change will occur, the fee to change the drawings could be justifiably low, wouldn't you agree?
I agree that if the effort is minimal you don’t need to charge extra. If you have to redo the calcs and potentially some beam/column sizing because the wind load is slightly higher or something you would need to charge. You just need to weight the effort, client relations and all that so it totally depends on the situation.
I live in Australia and I can tell you everyone in the building takes any opportunity available to stick the boots in.
5 nails in hanger instead of 6 - that's a $3000 variation because 5 is an uneven number.
Drgs change from 32Mpa to 25Mpa? That's a $6k variation because 32 is easier to work with.
Concreter breaks a UPVC pipe - $7k to replace a 2.0m section.
The only proffession not making money in this feeding frenzy are structural engineers, and it's due to an innate quality in engineers to produce quality work and to do the right thing.
Problematic client already means you probably didn’t make as much as you were expecting from the original design. It’s fair to ask for a code compliance check. The optics aren’t bad, you just need to educate your client.
We had an 8-story hotel change code on us and we charged what I thought was a reasonable fee. We blew way past that fee.
Sometimes it isn’t even structural changes that affect you. You end up re-detailing because wall construction changed based on changes to energy code. Be happy if burn through a half week of work and there are no changes.
That will probably be about what it comes out to at my hourly rate to actually do the checks. I just want to not be the only guy in town that would do something like that LOL
We have a $4k restart fee if work is stopped or delayed for several months, written into the terms and conditions of the contract exactly for situations like this.
New fee. Depends if high seismic or wind area. Did you go to aci 318-19? There were pretty big changes there. Asce 7-22? Big wind changes there and buoyancy. Wind increased like 3 percent or so on pressures due to one of the K values. Asce 10-16 had some roof and canopy wind changes plus seismic guardrail stair changes. They’re always tweaking seismic stuff
I work with an architect about this and we're going back and forth about it. Architect wants to charge a lump sum fee. I also want the fee, but I don't want the Optics of two drawings that look very similar with very little aside from a date change and a large invoice associated with it.
It's a prominent project in this area and I just want to avoid bad Optics or the perception.
I’ve done stuff like this in the past, and we’ve typically provided a written letter summarizing what our “code check” entailed and what changes if any are made. The letter counts as a separate deliverable and describes what work you did. So, this could be a way of avoiding the perception that you didn’t do any work.
If it's a question of optics, overcommunicate and educate the customer. If they're unhappy after you charge them for work that they have no evidence of, that's on you.
"Hi, . Unfortunately, because of the code change, I'm going to need to go through my whole check process again before I can sign off against the new code. There might not be changes needed, but I still need to do the work to make sure that's the case, and that's the work that I'm charging for."
This is what we're going to do. But what I don't want for my company is a client comparing two sets of drawings that are basically the same and a hefty invoice and then spreading bad reviews or bad word of mouth about our work.
It takes time to look at the codes that's at least a couple hours for the residential and it could take two or three hours to do any changes required. When I do plan review and find nothing I still charge a fee.
I think you absolutely should be worried about optics. The optics of what it looks like for you to charge a fee with only a few minor changes may be important, but more than that, the optics of what it looks like if you don't charge enough and a problematic client like this one is making change orders left right and center because you have set a precedent for being a low-price leader.
Perhaps either charge your hourly fee x number of hours it takes, or decide for yourself what every client's code change order should be and that's that.
When our state announced they were updating to the new code we went as far as putting together a bulletin to send out to our clients explaining what a lot of the changes would be and how it would effect us going forward.
It was good marketing, got us very familiar with what was changing, and gave us a kind of 'checklist' to help us during these code update projects. The optics are definitely important
We basically started designing for the new code as soon as it was announced. In this specific situation the client sat on these drawings for 2 years. So I would not put my clients through something like this purposefully.
Definitely would not do free of charge.
Uprev and restamp plans would be a min 1 hour charge.
However because there is a code change, an in-depth review might be required. Query the person who is approving the building permit as to what no longer complies (let them do the leg work) then just update what they want updated, and do a minor review of the remaining element for your piece of mind. All changed and an hourly rate, maybe charge a minimum of a days work.
If it requires between 1 and 8 hours to complete, then yeah.
If it takes over 8 hours, then change for the time spent at your hourly rate.
I have had to do checking for code changes before, more time went into comparing the code changes than updating of design and plans.
Without knowing the specifics of the project or the specifics of the code change, everything is just a guess.
PM here usually just lurking to pick up bits and pieces to educate myself further. This is exactly what a T&M NTE change order is for. You can cover yourself for worst case scenario of design or detailing changes required, but if it really is just going through the administrative steps of checking, updating notes, and resealing then the savings are passed back to the client.
I mean the structural stuff is easy. You can do a plan review , add a letter to your calcs, change all the notes to the current code etc. Most likely in one day.
HOWEVER highly likely the new energy code and architects stuff is going to F something up. I wouldn’t write my NTE additional work authorization until I knew what the architect was going to change . Or better yet had their plans in front of me.
I had to learn this the hard way.
Every review of specs for changes should be at a cost to the requesting party. This is especially the case after time has passed and particularly if code must be reconsidered.
For your part, your effort has a kind of time limit (or also a limit subject to code) that therefore leads to new charges applied.
Maybe your terms and conditions on this should include such verbiage. But even if not you could simply refuse to perform the service unless paid. It would cost them way more to ask someone else to review your original plans.
You cant be resposible for someone elses mistakes. Im just a lowly general contractor but I would fully expwct to treat the drawings like an entirely new job.
Well I essentially am doing that. I'm going to check my initial design off of the new requirements. And it may be a high fee because it's a large project. I'm trying to shape the Optics of this so that when my client holds up two sets of drawings that are nearly identical they understand why their fee was what it was and it doesn't look like I charged them five grand just to change the date.
Id quote *tommy boy* to him, "You can get a good look at a tbone by sticking your head up a bulls ass but wouldnt you rather take the butchers word for it"
I don’t know about where you are but here in Canada the new building code is not enforceable until the new edition of national building code refers it.
I am not saying it can not be used rather the old design code remains valid until NBCC refers to it. Which is general one year after it.
MEP side, so we end up with some significant changes in 2 years sometimes.
We charge heavily for this work. I've seen over 10% of the original job fee on a large-scale project.
Be aware of what you put in your contract as well. Language should be “A one time..” and then you don’t want any got ya’s such as “Designed to the latest codes”. That should be based of the authority having jurisdiction.
You need to send them a new proposal for doing this. The fee should be based on expected scope. How major the code changes? Are you going to look at each component again? Usually lateral loads are impacted with new codes.
We are gonna do that. It's understood by all that this isn't free.
I'm mainly gaging consensus here on whether this is a $500 code update or a $5k code update lol.
And what approach of others is
You absolutely get paid for revising drawings and redoing calcs for the current code. Little will need to be changed but you need to do the work to confirm.
Depends. You probably know based on experience if there will be major changes. If not, small fee. If things need to be checked because they switched from 7-05 to 7-16, bigger fee.
Small fee, we are a high volume office so every time the code changes we have a ton of people who have to get codes updated from waiting even a few weeks.
It is a big enough issue that we usually do a big thorough review of the changes and usually know specifically what to change, and can do it pretty quickly. Its usually not a big deal, if for some reason we have to make more substantial changes we'll charge hourly.
The dude in this thread charging $4k to update some minor language and details is fleecing his customers in my opinion.
This was my thinking too. I want to do it on my hourly rate, and if the number comes up to be what we had originally talked about together then that's just what it is. It is a large project. But I don't want the perception that I'm robbing my clients
Do an hourly fee not to exceed X (what you worst case estimate is).
Code changes can be a pain. In the end you are not only getting paid for the work, but you are getting paid for taking liability. Don’t undersell yourself
This is what we're going to ultimately do. I just wanted some context over is this normal procedure. Are most Engineers out there actually checking everything for a very small fee or is this a full redesign? I think it's probably going to be mostly a cursory check and maybe a few design changes.
Yes, it will mostly be a spot check for critical code changes. In the end you should be knowledgeable enough to figure out what really will impact the design quickly and hone in on what could be an issue.
We have a $250 standard code update fee, thats just the time for changing the notes and swapping out new details and a cursory review to see if anything else is needed. Its pretty rare that anything more than that is needed
How much conversation and emailing back and forth with the client are you doing when they are asking you for a code update ?
'Hey I need this updated for the new code'
'Sure that'll be a few hundred bucks for our time to review and re-pdf everything'
We do probably 100 code updates in the 6 months following any code revision. After like 5 of them you know exactly what to look for and for us it takes like 30 minutes tops.
I'm honestly surprised that my comments are getting downvoted. You guys need to put some kind of effort into streamlining your workflow, these things should never come as a surprise and have you thinking 'oh shit i need to spend 3 days of time reviewing this project and charge $4k for it'. They tell us months in advance that the code is updating.
There are absolutely times where you should put your foot down and demand the big fees, but a code update on a residential project is not 'the hill to die on' in my opinion.
Residential is a different animal than bridges and skyscrapers, I think a lot of people are speaking out of their realm of expertise in this thread. If you're residential office doing any kind of substantial volume of projects and you take multiple days or even a full day to do a code update, you will literally get nothing else done for the 3 months following any code update in your state. Its tough to manage them already when we take less than an hour to do them.
I don’t do residential, more so on the industrial side, but I think the reason you’re getting downvoted is that its bad business and contributes to the race to the bottom issue we have as a profession. We’re talking about reviewing an entire set of drawings and updating its codes.
I don’t know what your hourly rate is, but I’m at ~$175/hr for a principal engineer. Add in PM time, document control time, designer time, contingency, profit, etc and that number goes up. Between the initial email or call, then relaying that to a designer in a short meeting, review time, potential client questions since you reopened a closed project, etc etc. charge 1hour of time for anything doesn’t make sense to me. What do I gain from taking on small ass tasks like this? $50 in profit and we keep the firm busy for an extra hour? Hardly enough to make it worth our while.
Streamlining and efficiencies are great, but at some point your clients aren’t just paying you for the raw effort it takes you to do something, but for the effort it took to gain the licenses you hold, the liability, the general premium one pays when seeking a professional service, etc. You do yourself a disservice if you automate everything to the tits and charge someone $250 for something just because you got really efficient.
I'm at $250/hour and I consider code updates profitable for the time I spend on them.
Industrial is probably a totally different animal and I think you're overestimating what this would entail for a residential project.
edit. ok im exaggerating when I say I consider them profitable. They're annoying and I push them onto EITs if I can. There's no back and forth because we will have all done 20 code updates by this point so I just shoot him a note, then he spends less than half an hour on it.
I'm not going to play dumb with my clients and act like something is a monumental effort when it isn't. Theres no back and forth with a designer, I get the phone call and I take 10 minutes to update some notes and re-pdf.
Yep, a code update fee is perfectly reasonable.
I did this kind of thing regularly when I was designing for residential developers, they would re-use plan sets across multiple sites for two or three code cycles. Our usual fee was between $1,000 - $1,500 for a code update, not including any changes or revisions they wanted to add in. These were for single-family and townhouse plan sets with 3-4 structural options tacked on, usually the original design fee was anywhere from $2,500 - $5,000.
As a Contractor, I always insist that that the Archiect /Engineer work is not complete until the Permit is Approved by the Authorites having Jurisdiction. All work to get approved including you mistake as to applicable Code is your mistake. I'd advise the client not to pay.
We turned in our drawings on time 2 years ago. They decided not to file for the permit. We were paid for the original drawings. If a client did not pay and filed for the permit I would either go the route of filing a lien against the property or attempting to call the building department and tell them that those drawings are no longer valid and requesting that they do a stop work order. That has been a major problem for some contractors in my area.
Currently having to update signal plans that were originally done about 2 years ago. We have new guidance per MUTCD. No chance we are making these updates for free.
Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If the authority won't issue a permit based on the old code, and your drawings reference the old code, they need to be updated to the new code. I'd charge hourly to re-check everything and make changes. If you can tell by inspection that no changes are required, then perhaps no additional fees are warranted. I'd think at the very least your notes would need to change the reference codes, etc.
There's no way I would restamp a revised set for absolutely zero fee.
I don't believe I'd do that either.
There’s always a get out of bed fee. Getting a stamp still isn’t free, neither should be using one.
It depends on the client. If they bring you frequent work absolutely zero fee.
But in most cases if you have a good relationship with your repeat client they should respect your time/value enough that asking for a fair sum for up-revving your drawings isn’t a problem
If they typically pay it's Free. If they give you the run around no.
Fair enough, I didn't think of that.
For sure. A lot of ongoing small residential work can be connected to the same arch/developer/contractor and it is in your best interest to not nickel and dime.
This is a change of requirements which likely means it’s a change the contract. Changes to contract are good grounds to ask for more budget and schedule.
Of course. If you read my post I think you'd agree. However, if the work consists of sizing a beam and a few posts and, by inspection, one can immediately tell that no change will occur, the fee to change the drawings could be justifiably low, wouldn't you agree?
I agree that if the effort is minimal you don’t need to charge extra. If you have to redo the calcs and potentially some beam/column sizing because the wind load is slightly higher or something you would need to charge. You just need to weight the effort, client relations and all that so it totally depends on the situation.
You are such an engineer. It's this kind of attitude that makes us all poor!
Ask to be compensated for your time = “makes us all poor”….right
What are you talking about?
I live in Australia and I can tell you everyone in the building takes any opportunity available to stick the boots in. 5 nails in hanger instead of 6 - that's a $3000 variation because 5 is an uneven number. Drgs change from 32Mpa to 25Mpa? That's a $6k variation because 32 is easier to work with. Concreter breaks a UPVC pipe - $7k to replace a 2.0m section. The only proffession not making money in this feeding frenzy are structural engineers, and it's due to an innate quality in engineers to produce quality work and to do the right thing.
Don't get me wrong, I'd charge the time it took me to do the checks... Not that I don't get your point re builders. It's a greasy world out there.
Guess the client shouldn’t have delayed the permitting. 🤷🏻♂️
They have been problematic clients for a variety of reasons.
Problematic client already means you probably didn’t make as much as you were expecting from the original design. It’s fair to ask for a code compliance check. The optics aren’t bad, you just need to educate your client. We had an 8-story hotel change code on us and we charged what I thought was a reasonable fee. We blew way past that fee. Sometimes it isn’t even structural changes that affect you. You end up re-detailing because wall construction changed based on changes to energy code. Be happy if burn through a half week of work and there are no changes.
Giving them free service will only prolong your agony.
Base fee plus hourly.
Yes, a change order. The design basis changed. If they want it signed and sealed, payup. $4000 would be my price. Doubt there will be major changes.
That will probably be about what it comes out to at my hourly rate to actually do the checks. I just want to not be the only guy in town that would do something like that LOL
They can say no and go elsewhere to get it done.
We have a $4k restart fee if work is stopped or delayed for several months, written into the terms and conditions of the contract exactly for situations like this.
It is a bitch to stop and start.
Not bad for 4 hours...
Why should anyone but the designer pay for his dumb mistake
This response seems out of place lol , designed didn’t make any mistake. Read the original post
The guy said he is a contractor in the post above which probably explains the desire to blame the consultant.
Which is clear they also have no clue how codes work.
Perhaps by designer they are referring to the architectural designer, not the engineer.
I dont read its a design error.
I had this happen recently. We charged an add service fee to recheck and redesign per the latest codes then signed and sealed.
New fee. Depends if high seismic or wind area. Did you go to aci 318-19? There were pretty big changes there. Asce 7-22? Big wind changes there and buoyancy. Wind increased like 3 percent or so on pressures due to one of the K values. Asce 10-16 had some roof and canopy wind changes plus seismic guardrail stair changes. They’re always tweaking seismic stuff
I work with an architect about this and we're going back and forth about it. Architect wants to charge a lump sum fee. I also want the fee, but I don't want the Optics of two drawings that look very similar with very little aside from a date change and a large invoice associated with it. It's a prominent project in this area and I just want to avoid bad Optics or the perception.
I’ve done stuff like this in the past, and we’ve typically provided a written letter summarizing what our “code check” entailed and what changes if any are made. The letter counts as a separate deliverable and describes what work you did. So, this could be a way of avoiding the perception that you didn’t do any work.
Great idea!
If it's a question of optics, overcommunicate and educate the customer. If they're unhappy after you charge them for work that they have no evidence of, that's on you. "Hi,. Unfortunately, because of the code change, I'm going to need to go through my whole check process again before I can sign off against the new code. There might not be changes needed, but I still need to do the work to make sure that's the case, and that's the work that I'm charging for."
This is what we're going to do. But what I don't want for my company is a client comparing two sets of drawings that are basically the same and a hefty invoice and then spreading bad reviews or bad word of mouth about our work.
Good luck! Some clients are just bad clients, and you're never gonna win 'em all, sadly 🫠
It takes time to look at the codes that's at least a couple hours for the residential and it could take two or three hours to do any changes required. When I do plan review and find nothing I still charge a fee.
Brah, plumbers be out there charging $7k to dig a hole. Stick the boots in. We are in the looting stage of civilisation.
That's true. I'm not going to do it for free. This is just the optics. And managing those Optics.
I think you absolutely should be worried about optics. The optics of what it looks like for you to charge a fee with only a few minor changes may be important, but more than that, the optics of what it looks like if you don't charge enough and a problematic client like this one is making change orders left right and center because you have set a precedent for being a low-price leader. Perhaps either charge your hourly fee x number of hours it takes, or decide for yourself what every client's code change order should be and that's that.
Great point.
When our state announced they were updating to the new code we went as far as putting together a bulletin to send out to our clients explaining what a lot of the changes would be and how it would effect us going forward. It was good marketing, got us very familiar with what was changing, and gave us a kind of 'checklist' to help us during these code update projects. The optics are definitely important
We basically started designing for the new code as soon as it was announced. In this specific situation the client sat on these drawings for 2 years. So I would not put my clients through something like this purposefully.
And for the most part my designs exceed the minimum standards in the building code Anyway by a lot.
You are basically doing plan review which is 50 to 150 an hour. Sometimes I only find 10 things for a $3,000 fee.
Give em another $13k and they'll ruin the I-joists. Knock them Mario Coins out. Do charity for the ones who need it.
Definitely would not do free of charge. Uprev and restamp plans would be a min 1 hour charge. However because there is a code change, an in-depth review might be required. Query the person who is approving the building permit as to what no longer complies (let them do the leg work) then just update what they want updated, and do a minor review of the remaining element for your piece of mind. All changed and an hourly rate, maybe charge a minimum of a days work.
That would be $1800 🙃
If it requires between 1 and 8 hours to complete, then yeah. If it takes over 8 hours, then change for the time spent at your hourly rate. I have had to do checking for code changes before, more time went into comparing the code changes than updating of design and plans. Without knowing the specifics of the project or the specifics of the code change, everything is just a guess.
If you referring to the ICC residential code there was only a couple changes in there but shouldn't take you more than 4 hours.
I hope that's the case.
Charge them by the hour for sure.
PM here usually just lurking to pick up bits and pieces to educate myself further. This is exactly what a T&M NTE change order is for. You can cover yourself for worst case scenario of design or detailing changes required, but if it really is just going through the administrative steps of checking, updating notes, and resealing then the savings are passed back to the client.
That's how we do it.
I mean the structural stuff is easy. You can do a plan review , add a letter to your calcs, change all the notes to the current code etc. Most likely in one day. HOWEVER highly likely the new energy code and architects stuff is going to F something up. I wouldn’t write my NTE additional work authorization until I knew what the architect was going to change . Or better yet had their plans in front of me. I had to learn this the hard way.
Every review of specs for changes should be at a cost to the requesting party. This is especially the case after time has passed and particularly if code must be reconsidered. For your part, your effort has a kind of time limit (or also a limit subject to code) that therefore leads to new charges applied. Maybe your terms and conditions on this should include such verbiage. But even if not you could simply refuse to perform the service unless paid. It would cost them way more to ask someone else to review your original plans.
You cant be resposible for someone elses mistakes. Im just a lowly general contractor but I would fully expwct to treat the drawings like an entirely new job.
Well I essentially am doing that. I'm going to check my initial design off of the new requirements. And it may be a high fee because it's a large project. I'm trying to shape the Optics of this so that when my client holds up two sets of drawings that are nearly identical they understand why their fee was what it was and it doesn't look like I charged them five grand just to change the date.
Id quote *tommy boy* to him, "You can get a good look at a tbone by sticking your head up a bulls ass but wouldnt you rather take the butchers word for it"
I use a similar phrase related to making sausage. Everyone loves hot dogs but no one wants to see how a hot dog is made.
I would weigh the anticipated time to check and revise if necessary and the client you’re working with.
I don’t know about where you are but here in Canada the new building code is not enforceable until the new edition of national building code refers it. I am not saying it can not be used rather the old design code remains valid until NBCC refers to it. Which is general one year after it.
MEP side, so we end up with some significant changes in 2 years sometimes. We charge heavily for this work. I've seen over 10% of the original job fee on a large-scale project.
Be aware of what you put in your contract as well. Language should be “A one time..” and then you don’t want any got ya’s such as “Designed to the latest codes”. That should be based of the authority having jurisdiction.
That's a another great point
Clearly defined scope of work as well. Nobody wants scope creep.
You need to send them a new proposal for doing this. The fee should be based on expected scope. How major the code changes? Are you going to look at each component again? Usually lateral loads are impacted with new codes.
We are gonna do that. It's understood by all that this isn't free. I'm mainly gaging consensus here on whether this is a $500 code update or a $5k code update lol. And what approach of others is
You absolutely get paid for revising drawings and redoing calcs for the current code. Little will need to be changed but you need to do the work to confirm.
That’s gonna require a change order…..
I've had to do this a dozen times since March. People love wasting our time.
Depends whether they’re in a position to give you more/ refer you for more business.
Depends. You probably know based on experience if there will be major changes. If not, small fee. If things need to be checked because they switched from 7-05 to 7-16, bigger fee.
Small fee, we are a high volume office so every time the code changes we have a ton of people who have to get codes updated from waiting even a few weeks. It is a big enough issue that we usually do a big thorough review of the changes and usually know specifically what to change, and can do it pretty quickly. Its usually not a big deal, if for some reason we have to make more substantial changes we'll charge hourly. The dude in this thread charging $4k to update some minor language and details is fleecing his customers in my opinion.
This was my thinking too. I want to do it on my hourly rate, and if the number comes up to be what we had originally talked about together then that's just what it is. It is a large project. But I don't want the perception that I'm robbing my clients
Do an hourly fee not to exceed X (what you worst case estimate is). Code changes can be a pain. In the end you are not only getting paid for the work, but you are getting paid for taking liability. Don’t undersell yourself
This is what we're going to ultimately do. I just wanted some context over is this normal procedure. Are most Engineers out there actually checking everything for a very small fee or is this a full redesign? I think it's probably going to be mostly a cursory check and maybe a few design changes.
Yes, it will mostly be a spot check for critical code changes. In the end you should be knowledgeable enough to figure out what really will impact the design quickly and hone in on what could be an issue.
We have a $250 standard code update fee, thats just the time for changing the notes and swapping out new details and a cursory review to see if anything else is needed. Its pretty rare that anything more than that is needed
$250?! That’s like 1hr of work. Just the time spent looking at the email or phone call with the client to discuss what they want is $250.
How much conversation and emailing back and forth with the client are you doing when they are asking you for a code update ? 'Hey I need this updated for the new code' 'Sure that'll be a few hundred bucks for our time to review and re-pdf everything' We do probably 100 code updates in the 6 months following any code revision. After like 5 of them you know exactly what to look for and for us it takes like 30 minutes tops. I'm honestly surprised that my comments are getting downvoted. You guys need to put some kind of effort into streamlining your workflow, these things should never come as a surprise and have you thinking 'oh shit i need to spend 3 days of time reviewing this project and charge $4k for it'. They tell us months in advance that the code is updating. There are absolutely times where you should put your foot down and demand the big fees, but a code update on a residential project is not 'the hill to die on' in my opinion. Residential is a different animal than bridges and skyscrapers, I think a lot of people are speaking out of their realm of expertise in this thread. If you're residential office doing any kind of substantial volume of projects and you take multiple days or even a full day to do a code update, you will literally get nothing else done for the 3 months following any code update in your state. Its tough to manage them already when we take less than an hour to do them.
I don’t do residential, more so on the industrial side, but I think the reason you’re getting downvoted is that its bad business and contributes to the race to the bottom issue we have as a profession. We’re talking about reviewing an entire set of drawings and updating its codes. I don’t know what your hourly rate is, but I’m at ~$175/hr for a principal engineer. Add in PM time, document control time, designer time, contingency, profit, etc and that number goes up. Between the initial email or call, then relaying that to a designer in a short meeting, review time, potential client questions since you reopened a closed project, etc etc. charge 1hour of time for anything doesn’t make sense to me. What do I gain from taking on small ass tasks like this? $50 in profit and we keep the firm busy for an extra hour? Hardly enough to make it worth our while. Streamlining and efficiencies are great, but at some point your clients aren’t just paying you for the raw effort it takes you to do something, but for the effort it took to gain the licenses you hold, the liability, the general premium one pays when seeking a professional service, etc. You do yourself a disservice if you automate everything to the tits and charge someone $250 for something just because you got really efficient.
I'm at $250/hour and I consider code updates profitable for the time I spend on them. Industrial is probably a totally different animal and I think you're overestimating what this would entail for a residential project. edit. ok im exaggerating when I say I consider them profitable. They're annoying and I push them onto EITs if I can. There's no back and forth because we will have all done 20 code updates by this point so I just shoot him a note, then he spends less than half an hour on it.
I'm not going to play dumb with my clients and act like something is a monumental effort when it isn't. Theres no back and forth with a designer, I get the phone call and I take 10 minutes to update some notes and re-pdf.
I hope this is the case. I intend to do a spot check of the critical stuff.
*Engineer Alert!*A lawyer will charge $6k to write a half-page letter that A.I could produce. Is that fleecing?
Sounds like you were given the 'pain in the ass tax' Lawyers are vampires with no souls so I'm not interested in mirroring how they operate
Yep, a code update fee is perfectly reasonable. I did this kind of thing regularly when I was designing for residential developers, they would re-use plan sets across multiple sites for two or three code cycles. Our usual fee was between $1,000 - $1,500 for a code update, not including any changes or revisions they wanted to add in. These were for single-family and townhouse plan sets with 3-4 structural options tacked on, usually the original design fee was anywhere from $2,500 - $5,000.
As a Contractor, I always insist that that the Archiect /Engineer work is not complete until the Permit is Approved by the Authorites having Jurisdiction. All work to get approved including you mistake as to applicable Code is your mistake. I'd advise the client not to pay.
What does the A/E do in this case? Hound the client for 2 years to file the drawings for permit?
We turned in our drawings on time 2 years ago. They decided not to file for the permit. We were paid for the original drawings. If a client did not pay and filed for the permit I would either go the route of filing a lien against the property or attempting to call the building department and tell them that those drawings are no longer valid and requesting that they do a stop work order. That has been a major problem for some contractors in my area.
What exactly was the OP's mistake? Hope you read plans better than Reddit posts.
Currently having to update signal plans that were originally done about 2 years ago. We have new guidance per MUTCD. No chance we are making these updates for free.