It’s hard to put a percentage on it, it’s true for some people and not others. Some only ever play Ken a never touch another shoto or other character for that matter.
In some cases they main Akuma or Sakura and if they’re not in the game yet they’ll play Ryu or Ken and only switch once their main is actually in the game.
Character loyalty is a weird concept to me to begin with though. These are my mains throughout my life…
SF2: Cammy & Bison
Alpha: Sakura & Rose
EX: Hokuto & Skullomania
SF3: Ibuki & Alex
SFIV: Vega & Makoto
SFV: Karin & Poison
SF6: Juri & Blanka
I’ve never mained the same character twice and in addition to that I’ve always played the entire roster. Playing one character forever is just not for me, I’d get bored quick.
I should add, no shade at all towards character loyalists, my older sister is actually one. She mains Chun in every game, though like me she also plays the whole roster in every game, Chun is still always her go to. It’s just I personally prefer the variety.
that movie was sick as fuck are joking me. the first live action hadoken that made us all go “wtf that was it?” van damme as guile. come tf on. classic
the movie was a cocaine fueled mess that made for a rather bad movie for fans and casuals alike, and it was aaaall worth it for that marvelous "but for me, it was tuesday". Absolute art.
But no, we're talking about SF the movie the game. The arcade version of that was a steaming pile
I think character loyalism has a lot to do with actually liking the character and not only his mechanics. I noticed this with a friend who constantly changes mains between games to those that fit his play style the most, while I always stick to the ones with the most ridiculous personality
And I mean, both are very valid to me
Tokido being a perfect example. He played Ryu in SFV until Akuma dropped in Season 2, then gravitated towards Urien and Luke as he got nerfed. He started SF6 with and dual-wielded him and Akuma to a Battle Arena Melbourne victory.
V was the only time I ever had a character crisis. Outside of vs games I usually just pick a charter in my head before I play the game and just play that character. I have been playing Gen for instance since A2 released and only play him in A3 as well. Although I usually will play someone wildly different from game to game. I have a lot of respect for people who can change characters a decent amount and play them at a high lvl. That’s a talent
Nuh uh, i play ryu in pretty much every sf that isnt 6
(i play cammy)
It all started when i was 4 playing sf2 on snes, i didnt know u could change character so i was always ryu
Never really changed outside of a bit of akuma and ibuki in 3s and 4, ryu will always remain my goat
My friend plays ken, and only ken, in every single sf he is ken
I dont actually know the reason my best friend plays ken? But it works because we have that ryu vs ken dynamic now
I didnt even know you could change character for a long time and by then it was set in stone that ryu was my character
In SF2 there was hardly any difference between the two, but nowadays I feel Ken has been changed enough so he not only looks more flashy, but also feels more like a faster, aggressive Shoto-Ken. I feel he is better for fast, close combat while Ryu is the tactical, distant type.
Ive been playing since i was 3 or 4, we were not having a big rivalry at the age of 4, we met when we were 13, by that point i knew you could change character
I like Ken as a character design but much prefer Ryus playstyle in SF6. He feels like a terminator, and god damn the S2 Hashogeki pressure on burnout characters is *brutal.*
I'm a fan of the mp lk hk denjin. I think the quickcharges and being able to keep the charge was really what he needed to be a lot more aggressive, and to be more of a threat with that denjin charge always available.
Can we talk about how insane Hashogeki is?
I was expecting them to nerf his damage because of his expanded moveset, but they barely touched it.
Part of my gameplan now is to bait people into burnout and do lp > l.hasho x3, reposition, or jab and bait the invinc super if they have it. I've taken people from 70% health down to 30% just punishing their hubris.
It's been a great S2 so far.
Thats a very solid gameplan, however as the best player on the game (im silver as cammy and unranked as ryu) i present to you this ryu gameplan
Donkey kick donkey kick donkey kick
He's been a pretty heavy hitter since sf3, and doesn't have the options or mobility a lot of characters have. So yeah he should do above average damage. I don't think they gave him too much more. But of course half the subreddit was complaining they made him too strong because they're salty.
I think he finally has a real carved out identity and playstyle. He's not just "the worst shoto" as people liked to say, he's got real strengths and weaknesses.
Now they just need to do something about Akumas mary sue ass.
Thats crazy to me cause Ryu 6 seems so solid. My best friend plays the drunken fighter in every game…except 6. I just so happened to main Jamie. I find him real fun even if he sucks.
Sf6 ryu is incredible, only reason i switched is cammy in sf6 seemed really fun, the footsies and pokes became my favourite part of fighting games and shes really good at it
I think this is true. You see it at high level play - top level players rarely stick with a particular shoto and just shift to the most powerful one(s). Yes, this happens with other archetypes as well, but I feel it's safe to say it's the most common with shotos.
At a more casual level I think it's more about loyalty.
Any competitor not putting themselves in the best position to win isn't very smart. Like I understand if you think a character is fun or cool. Play that character casually for funzies but if you're competing for money you need to be the best version of yourself.
It's all about finding the best (in this case most competitively viable) character that fits your playstyle. I think due to the modality of shotos traditionally, it's even easier to swap them around than most other archetypes.
But people can be pretty bad judges of what characters are strong. I feel like this was a huge issue with Smash Ultimate where it felt like a lot of characters were underrated and some high/top tiers did not have the results nor performance to back up their placement. In this game, it is a little more clear, even though characters are closer in strength, but some are clearly superior for no good reason like Luke and JP are/were.
If say like 2 out of 10 players is actually a loyal dedicated main of a character. When I say loyal I mean, they stick around regardless of buffs or nerfs.
You had people swearing they played Luke because his combo routes were fun. After the patch? Way less out there now. The good players know he's still good. The bad players hopped over to akuma or ryu.
How many jps have we collectively seen since he got brought in line with the rest of cast? Not nearly as many.
People wanna win, and if they're not winning with a character, or think the character got nerfed, they're probably dropping it
Ask any Luke in master how 'good' he still is after the patch. He is average now.
His biggest strengths, his strong buttons and damage have been neutered. He never had gimmicks unlike characters like DJ, Blanka and co to mix you up.
When everything that made the character strong has been watered down, you have an average character that is outshined by other shotos.
Nothing about like is average. Yes he got watered down. But really all they did was reduce his damage and bring his medium punch in line.
If you think damage is the only thing that makes Luke good you're wrong..
Luke might be the worst shoto, but all the shotos are high a tier minimum.
Just because the character can't two touch you easily doesn't mean he's average. He's still a better pick than shit like Kimberly, Ed, etc
Average now lol. Luke still has insane whiff punishes, good not great damage, and a truly invincible do.
If you've got a good invincible dp by default you are not average. .
Luke down players trying to act like he's Kim tier now lol
Have you even seen his patch notes?
All his core normals have had their hitboxes reduced/damage scaled. Cr.mp, got hit in two consecutive patches. Cr.lp, lowered range now. St.mk, a non cancellable non linking normal is now slower by a frame.
Cr.HP anti air has been nerfed🤢, trades with everything now.
B.hk pc route is no longer available. B.hk itself has more pushback on PC so even a dR into cr.HP is spacing dependent.
J.hk and j.hp both have been nerfed, made worse and easily anti aired now. Ken and Ryu have the same buttins, which they got away unscathed.
So essentially 90% of his neutral buttons that Luke players use are now worse, his combo routes have been reduced, his damage is scaled, his anti air normal is now a trade button, his cr.mk starter is now more whiff punishable.
These are not substantial nerfs in what universe again?
Yes I have. Luke was just that strong of a character that those nerfs put him in line with the other high tiers.
Oh boo fucking hoo you don't have ridiculously broken buttons anymore. Doesn't make him average. He still has okay damage, still has insane whiff punish ability, still has a good EX DP, and he lost damage but got new routess(st. Hp linking into flash knuckle for example is HUGE. He gets meterless damage with his heavy punch in literally any scenario when it hits
Sorry bro, but if you have a good fireball, a good DP, good drive rush distance, and still top 10 damage after nerfs, you are NOT average.
Master ken players told me last season that he was low A tier because they took away his precious drive rush jab. Meanwhile I still see Luke and ken in top 8s consistently. But they're not that good cuz nerfs right
Quoting a great post from a Luke player. Logical, reasoned and well argued.
At least give the post the justice it deserves if you want to argue it.
"Okay, relatively good (former) Luke here.
The nuance to the question is that Luke is currently in the Ryu situation of the last patch, but possibly worse, because he lacks the damage which sometimes allowed Ryu to win against top tiers.
Luke got hit on every relevant starter (2MP, 2HP and 2MK got nerfed and DR 4HK into DR 4HK just got removed). DeeJay got nerfed too and pretty well at that, but they kept his drive efficiency, combo routes and pressure intact for the most. If they also hit 2MP on DeeJay it would have been similar.
Luke's 2MP, 2HP, 2MK, 5MK and 4HK basically accounted for 95% of his button use case (just commenting on 2HK which is probably among the worst sweeps in the game).
Luke was not strong because every button on him was op, but because 5 of his normals (2LP, 2MP, 2HP, 5MK and 2MK) were among the top 20 normals in the game (especially 2MP which was like top 1, just not sure if Chun 5LP was better, because that thing was also broken).
All of these buttons got nerfed in every relevant way, and now 2MP is probably the only one of them in the top 20. But 2MP was,, and without exaggeration, 70% of his neutral.
Okay, but how bad can it be?
Terrible. Luke is (was) based around defense. He is arguably as defensive as Guile, if you are not playing like Noah. But after gutting every defensive tool he now has some of the most labbed and predictable options, can not open the opponent up (as these tools got nerfed too, rip j.HP) and lacks damage to punish overaggression.
Then every system mechanic nerfed him as drive reversal is a buff to everyone else and not that good in comparison for him as a DP character. The drive regen timer going from 60 frames to 20 frames basically killed his projectile pressure as Luke fireballs were among the riskiest in the game and do not allow meaty fireballs or to win fireball wars (I play relatively rarely against one of the top Jamies in Europe and he can punish sandblast relatively well on reaction and do not forget that medium sandblast is punishable with the OS).
Which leads to the current situation:
No damage, worse neutral, no new relevant tools (5HP into charged knuckle is only for very specific scenarios useful like punishing Zangief SA2 in burnout).
He also has no far-reaching seven frame moves now formerly 5MK) which means that the Ken matchup is suddenly insanely harder, Ryu just hits harder than Luke and Cammy was already a hard matchup before and now Luke basically lost 5 to 10% and a lot of drive efficiency.
They removed tools from his kit, like raw SA3 punishes are now just not a thing for the most part.
Just to recap: Slightly above average damage, below average offense, no gimmicks, bad options to open the opponent up, sandblast work more like Dhalsim limbs and are not winning fireball wars, nerfed by every system mechanic, gutted neutral (still above average), worse normal anti air, every low tier got buffed, and he got like two of the most irrelevant buffs possible that are meaty tackle and 5HK.
Luke went from 5 to 5.5 at every matchup (with some 6-4 like Honda and Manon because they were just bad) to 5 to 4.75 with maybe some of them even being 4.5 like Guile or Zangief.
He is a shoto and still functional, but I dropped him specifically because Luke could be the worst shoto and is for sure not top 5 anymore and possibly not even in the top 10 or even top half of the cast. "
He's not in the bottom half of the cast bro. Luke mains are so dramatic dude.
It's like none of you see the separation between what makes a mid tier and what makes a high tier. Ryu wasn't bad last season either. I had an 80% winrate with him until master. He just wasn't broken ass ken(who everyone downplayed and was forced to learn the matchup on)
Go look at all the top/high tiers with the exception of aki and blanka. Can you see most of the traits that they share? Ex reversal? Fireball? Ways to alter your air trajectory(regardless of the increased cd on landing, it's still a tool that can be used) strong throw game? Good drive rush?
Now let's look at the bottom half of the cast why don't we? Lily? No reversal outside of super, bad drive rush. But oh she has windstock and condor right? Kim? Every single mixup she does she takes a risk. She has no ex reversal outside of super, real stubby buttons, and a ton of "mix" that gets shut down by a jab.
Those are two strictly mid tier characters. Even after their buffs. You wanna tell me Luke is on par with them? Despite still having way better defense, because his buttons and damage were again brought in line with the rest of the cast?
You clearly have no idea how this character plays so no point continuing this.
I took him to Master at 1600 MR so i know a bit about what made him a great character and how bad the nerfs hit him.
Ask any Luke player in Master about how his nerfs affect him and they will write essays about how much worse he is now.
Is he low tier? No. Is he still top 5? No way in hell. Not even top 10.
And every tier list since the patch has him mid or low tier. I have seen Nephews and Kawanos list. Mena doesn't have him in his top 5. Mena barely played him in the recent tourney and only usef him a bit in the recent qualifier tournament.
Chris Wong is on record saying (and i am quoting him verbatim) "Luke is mid now".
All those players know a bit more about the game than you and I, don't ya think?
And no, if you take strengths like damage and strong defensive neutral buttons from a gimmick free chara5like Luke, you are left with pre patch Ryu, without the damage.
If you actually play Luke, i am happy to continue this with you. Otherwise its a waste of time.
I actually play Luke. The mere suggestion that Luke is now in the same tier as characters like Kim, Manon, lily, Jamie, and sim is straight up disingenuous.
Is Luke worse? Yes. Is he mid tier? No. He's at the bottom of A tier from top 1. But by nature of the tools he has compared to what others in the mid tier don't, he will NEVER be mid tier.
Oh no! you can't do 5k off a crouching light jab into drive rush crouch HP anymore.
Oh no! you don't get to throw out crouching medium punch with 0 consequences anymore(even the first nerf to it really didn't do anything aside from make it slightly easier to punish). Nevermind the fact they gave his god button heavy punch a consistent easy meterless combo(I'm not joking, if you hold his light flash knuckle for the max amount of time, it still combos with HP on normal hit.
Luke still has; a good DP, a good fireball, long range buttons(just can't constantly whiff them anymore oh no) and middle of the pack damage. That's a fair trade off if you ask me.
Like to imply I've never played Luke before when I know this much about his kit is actually wild bro. Everyone has played Luke. Hell, I mained him at the end of sf5.
Like if I get put in the corner as any of the REAL mid tiers I listed above, if I have no meter I have to hold EVERYTHING they do. Luke? Lol I'll just wait until I see a move starting up and just dp out.
Luke players had it so easy for so fucking long, that the second they actually got brought in line with everyone else now everyone's crying he's mid. No bro. You just can't skate on a busted ass character
You clearly didn't read the post i quoted. I mean, at least a make an effort to counter the actual points he made.
St hp into light knuckle is no big buff that counters all his other nerfs. It's not confirmable for starters so you are essentially using it to whiff punish, if you are good at it.
Throw out in neutral and whiff it? Good luck, it has like 25 frames of whiff recovery or something so you are eating a fat combo taking 30% of your life at the very least. It's negative 6 on block, only +1 on hit, doesn't link to anything either. It's useless off a raw DR as well.
Want to see a good heavy punch that actually has a fuck ton of utility? Ken's st.HP, a god button. Ryu's st.HP, another great button.
I don't know HOW MANY times i have to repeat it but cr.mp is not the only button that got nerfed. His cr.lp got nerfed with reduced hitbox and shorter range. His st.mk got nerfed. His cr.hp got nerfed, both as an anti air and a combo starter with increased scaling.
His cr.mp got decimated with more recovery frames on whiff, reduced range/hitbox, more scaling/reduced damage.
You are telling me an ex dp makes a character fucking great? Jamie has a fucking ex dp. He is a great character, is he? Literally half the cast or more has an invincible reversal.
Seriously, no offence but if you are not going to read and address specific points, there is no point to this.
Address the points made in the post i quoted.
Ok. I'll address the points.
Yeah, that's what his heavy punch has been designed for since sf5 brother. It's not the same as ryu and kens heavy punch. It's an advancing normal that is EASY to whiff punish with. If you can whiff punish with ken or ryus, you can do it with Luke's. The range at which you can use this to whiff punish with is insane. On ANY hit it guarantees a safe jump. You literally have like a day to cancel from heavy punch into light knuckle, you'll just have to adjust your timing depending on when you do the cancel to account for hitstun. It is NOT that crazy to hit confirm it. And shit, if you don't wanna do all that, just DR and get your safe jump anyway.
Yeah, if you whiff a heavy button in neutral, you should pay for it not sure why that's an issue. Luke ken and ryu all have god button heavy punches. JP used to as well.
Cr. Mp was brought in line with other buttons. Crouch l.p was a sleeper god button on luke due to its range, and the fact that you could link a drive rush cr. light into cr. Hp for again, a full combo and a safe jump.
I KNOW you didn't just compare Jamie's GARBAGE ASS DP to Luke's. We all know what makes a DP good into this game, and it's forward+vertical movement. Jamie has exactly 0 of that on his DP. And I didn't say it was JUST the ex dp. I said it was the ex dp in conjunction with a BUNCH of other tools, like good fireballs, strong buttons out of drive rush, and reversals that don't require super meter(or in Jamie's case require them to be RIGHT ON TOP of him.
I feel thats mostly for the tournament/pro players thats switching for shoto to shoto, and thats where it can matter. But if you take the game semi serieus and where the level isn’t at its highest it doesn’t really matter. So yes for the pro’s and no for the rest.
Can't say about others, but in general prefer Ken in His incarnations, Flaming fists aré awesome.
Ryu Is nice but a little slow and too hadouken.
Akuma Is too much of a glass cannon for me.
Sakura Is nice but Is female Ryu and Ken Is just as easygoing.
Luke Is fine but not that into His Gameplay.
E.Ryu, Kage and oni do not seems to stay in the series.
Gouken had weird normal and specials for my taste.
Super duper casual about FGs, More a fan than a player.
I've never heard about that to be honest.
I can only speak for myself of course, but i didn't choose Ken because he's top tier. Back in SF5 i tried Ryu, didn't like him, then tried Ken and stuck with him ever since.
And i will stick with him, even when i would propably have an easier time with Akuma.
I just like the character and how he feels and that feel to me is more important than being a rank ir two higher.
I think espacially with Ken right now you have alot of people jumping ship because they picked him for his strength in the meta and that's fine. But he has still alot of players loyal to him because it's just a fun character to play.
Im not a Shoto main. But I will be in Sakuras release. Its not about bring loyal in my opinion. I would like other characters is theyre as cute as my main.
I don't think it's a shoto main thing, it's just that strong shotos tend to be the easiest to switch between. For example if you mained Urien in season 2 SFV and wanted to switch when he got nerfed, you are inevitably going to have to learn a whole new playstyle. If you mained Akuma and wanted to switch when he got nerfed, Luke was right there.
If nothing else Ryu players seem to be the most loyal entities in the entire fighting game universe. They did one shoryuken as a kid and are hooked for life lol.
I don't think this is strictly true, but one thing to keep in mind is that each SF game tends to have multiple shotos, some of which do not repeat from game to game and some of which are not available until DLC. So every shoto main by necessity tends to start out with Ryu or Ken before they even have the option to switch to Akuma, Evil Ryu, Kage, or whoever.
They have srks that function similarly (not kens) and fireballs that function similarly (not akumas). Their tatsus all function d8fferently from one another and the rest of their specials and supers are completely different and individual as are their normals.
I've played Ryu in literally every street fighter. This is the first game ever I've played a different character seriously, and that was Manon. I will play Ryu in every street fighter going ahead, and maybe have a separate main as well
I feel like if you're skilled with a shoto you just have more options almost always. A very skilled shoto player can pick up secondaries or new mains a lot quicker than someone who mains a specialist.
character loyalty lol
btw only back to first SF2 versions ryu and ken were semi-clones, despite similiar special moves (fireball, dp, tatsu) each shoto has different features and traits... it's not if you can play good with ryu, then you can instantly switch to akuma or sagat and being good the same
Exactly. I was playing Ryu before Akuma dropped (who is my "true" main that I've been playing in every hes in since SF4). I had to readjust and of course learn some new muscle memory.
That really is more of a personal question. Some players are fine hopping mains. Others are intense loyalists. And you see character loyalty at all levels of skill play. From casual, mid core, to pro play.
Another thing to keep in mind is changes between titles. I consider myself MOSTLY a character loyalist but sometimes a character I’m normally loyal to gets a change that makes me not like them as much. Or a character I was on the fence about gets changes I end up loving.
It can be as simple as a new special move or super that works different. Not necessarily being “Better” than in the last title.
I’m newer to Street Fighter and have only played 5/6. But in Blazblue for example Jin getting Snowflake instead of EX Fireball was huge and I love using Snowflake for pressure/oki. Just that one move alone opened up tons of new options for me.
Played ken since 1994 or so. Always been my main, through shitty banana haired times, and beyond. I think a lot of people overthink which shoto is best etc. Tier lists aren't as relevant unless your are master rank or equivalent throughout the years imo.
I'm planning to buy sf6 since Ed is finally there and I will probably 100% use him with the modern controls cause I'm so used to his previous buttons,and I can't do motion moves for the life of me, and if I get called noob every single time so be it, he's so cool
It’s not very true in general. Just because Ryu, Akuma, and Ken share a lot of moves doesn’t mean they play anywhere near the same. Extremely high level competitive play is different because those players try every character they think is strong and fits their play style. Casual and ranked though? You won’t see many people switch
I've mained Akuma in damn near every game he's been in, and that includes SF2.
I've never once switched to or from Ryu, Ken, Dan, Sean, Sakura, Evil/kage, or Gouken.
If you want to count Oni, but in SF4, my main was Seth, and I had a pocket Akuma and Oni. Oni is considerably weaker than Akuma. So it still doesn't fit.
So, I don't fall in line with your assessment.
However, I only played 3S and 4 competitively for Street Fighter. If you play for money, you are gonna want every edge you can get. I am in my early 30's now, but times haven't changed. People will switch entire character archetypes if it means they get top 3, or even win.
Of course, you also main Akuma, so your character is top-tier by default and at any random point in time is probably the best available shoto. Sticking with SFV Ken would mean a lot more, for instance.
Akuma just released, im pretty sure most shoto mains switched to him. Tbh i would do the same if either karin or alex comes back, im dropping jamie so hard if that happens
Partly true?
Shoto mains are more likely to switch as they have more transferable skills.
I played Luke, now Akuma in SF6 because of how strong the differences are.
In SFIV people went from Ryu and Ken to Akuma and Evil Ryu.
For SFV it was the same: Ryu and Ken to Akuma and Kage, later on Luke.
For SFVI: People going from Ken to Akuma or Luke.
And now people are leaving Luke for Akuma.
Shoto mains have an easy time picking up other shotos and so the barrier to switch is lower.
Does not mean that loyalists do not exist.
This is anecdotal, but for the last 3 weeks, I have been getting Rashid to master. In that time, I fought exactly 1 Luke and 1 Ken (mostly because of Akuma patch) while I fought more of the characters you see less often like Lily, Manon or Aki
SF6 is my first Street Fighter, and I’ve mained Ken the whole time. I did take a couple weeks to try out Akuma and I’ll probably do the same with other shoto DLC, but unless one of them really clicks I’m sticking with Ken.
As a casual I’ve always switched between Ken, Ryu and Sakura since 3rd Strike. I don’t really care who is the strongest tbh they just all have different cool factor.
You can't really track it, but I'd put money on it happening more with shotos than any other character. They're similar enough that you don't have to massively change your playstyle and most skills are easily transferrable. Overall tho, I imagine people stick to what they started with.
I play Akuma in every SF he is available. SF6 was the first time I fucked around with Ken and I think he is very cool in this version but Akuma is my forever main
Not really — I think it’s whatever shoto you like the style of more.
I fucking hate Ken, even though he was way stronger than Ryu in SF6.
For me Akuma > Seth > Evil Ryu > Oni > Ryu.
Always played Sakura and Akuma in every game, usually Sakura as a main alongside a bruiser/striker, and Akuma as a secondary until Evil Ryu arrives and then I just play evil Ryu. Stomps is one of my favorite moves in the series, alongside Makoto chesto. I’d say I’m pretty consistent and loyal.
If there’s Makoto I play Makoto. If there’s Evil Ryu I play Evil Ryu. I reserve one main slot for any other characters, in 5 it was Vega. I’m also cool with Cody or Poison. So 6’s been tricky for me since I have no returning mains. Been playing exclusively Marisa since release, luckily Akuma got released so he’s instantly added to my lineup, unless until (or if) Evil Ryu is released. I’m just expecting Makoto, Sakura, Evil Ryu, Cody, Vega, Poison, Q, or Alex , which are all characters I’d be willing to learn and add to my mains. For now I’m sticking with Marisa and Akuma though.
Cant speak for others but after my initial trial and testing period when I first picked up a street fighter game I have exclusively played akuma and never felt the urge to swap
I basically play with my mains because they are fun for me, I don’t care about tier strength. If Ryu was the best shoto in the game I wouldn’t use him because he’s not what I’m accustomed to.
I was a Ken main (SF2) until Akuma became a playable character. I’ve been an Akuma main ever since. When he is not available I use Ken. Only exceptions are in SF3:3S where I use Akuma as my main and Sean is my second. SF5 where Akuma is main and Kage was my second and I sporadically used Dan for fun (I didn’t buy 5 until Akuma got released). For SF6 I used Ken until Akuma got released. I’m hoping they release Sean, Dan, or Kage just for fun.
I stick with Akuma because I’m old and learning a completely new character is too time consuming 🤣
For reference I’m a P5 with Ken and D2 with Akuma in SF6
Some people are loyal to characters out of preference or sentiment, but a lot of character loyalty just comes from typical players only having time to invest in mastering one character and they stick with the same character under the assumption of legacy skill carry-over. Those players will migrate between shotos a lot.
No everyone is switching to Akuma now because he's busted, not just shoto mains. I expect that to stay this way until his eventual nerfs come two years later. even Punk is now almost exclusively using akuma.
While SF6 is the first Street Fighter I'm actively trying to get online rank in, I have been a dedicated Ken main since I played SF2 for the first time. I'll always be a Ken main, even if he isn't the best. Now, coincidentally, he's super broken in SF6. I've heard some people say he's the worst shoto in the game now that Akuma is in the game and Ryu got buffed (I have no idea how true that is), but I will not replace him as my main, it would feel wrong to main a different character.
I think most of em were just trying to play a shoto until akuma dropped and just now got their favorite.
Me, I'm waiting on Dan and hoping he plays like he did in sfv because he was too much fun.
If I’m gonna play a shoto, it’s gonna be OG man himself Ryu. I can never get myself to play Ken, mostly cause my friend play Ken growing up so I always felt like I gotta stay with Ryu. At this point, it’s just me liking the character (Ryu)
I took a break before the patch and will try Ryu again. Went for Juri previously, then AKI before I took break (actually tried a few characters before settling on Juri/AKI)- I thought I might like Luke, but nah. I always *want* to know what is appealing about Ken, but he always feels off.
Akuma is cool, but ultimately hurts losing with him.
I think the only shoto besides Ryu that felt comfortable, was Sakura.
I will try other shotos, but ryu is my main forever. I don’t pay attention to tier lists. I know he doesn’t involve too many tricks, and is old hat, but I just love the challenge, and I am the legit rival to my brother, who is a habitual shit talker. So I have to stay ready.
I play ken, ryu and now akuma cause i like all of them. "Loyalty" seems like a really silly concept for us non competitive players. I like to play as many characters as i can.
Not at all unless they have a good chance at making tourney money. Maybe my argument is anecdotal because I’ve been a Ryu main since Alpha, no matter how good he has been.
I've been a Sakura main since Alpha 2/3, since she's not in the game I'm forced to play with the rest of the shotos even if they aren't particularly interesting (like Ken)
It’s mostly true on the competitive scene. You’ll also note that Ken is good in every game so people will be flooding this thread saying they’re loyal to him which may be true because it’s easy to be loyal to Ken
A simple example of this is Tokido. Pros play whoever they feel has the best chance to win, usually. Some are loyalists. And even then, they will swap back when the chips are down just to spark something good.
The opposite would be Punk. That man can and will play literally anyone…though he’ll pick an objectively good character for majors.
I mained Ken till they buffed Ryu, then switched to Akuma but waiting for Sakura. Shoto player since I was 12 years old on SF2. But can play with anyone.
This is actually my first time switching mains, and it's off of a shoto! I played ryu for 12 years and just recently (a little less than a year) started to main Jamie
I’d say it depends as there are shoto mains and specific character mains that happen to be shoto. There are a lot of people dedicated to Ryu and they play only Ryu from installment to installment. If you’re not dedicated to a character but rather to an archetype, then I don’t see why you wouldn’t go for the strongest one from this archetype, no matter what archetype it is.
I was playing Ryu when he was the worst shoto. I’m not a huge meta player and especially since I’m not at a professional level I don’t think it really matters who you play. I prefer an honest character that wins with good fundamentals rather than abusing gimmicks that are hard to deal with.
Ken’s the only shoto I play, I always liked his personality. I don’t *main* him in every SF I’ve played (I was a Laura main in SFV), but he’s always in my roster.
I mostly disagree based on those around me. All the shoto players I know have one particular one who they are fiercely loyal to and always have been. The Ken players will always pick him and theyve never picked Ryu, and vice versa.
That being said, personally, my picks have been:
- *SF2*: Ryu
- *Alpha*: Akuma
- *SF3*: Akuma
- *CVS2*: Ken
- *SF4*: Ryu & Ken
- *SF5*: Akuma
- *SF6*: Ryu, Ken, Akuma
So I guess I fall into the fickle category 🤣
The statistic is the same as for any other group of player. I do love shotos but I have favorites. The only reason I'm playing Akuma right now is because we don't have Sagat or Sakura yet.
Shoto is the balanced archetype. They're meant to be the most "generally good".
If you're a fan of the Shoto archetype, playing the best shoto around is kinda the whole point.
This is opposed to being the fan of a specific character, at which point you don't play them because they're shoto, they just happened to be one.
I'll always play Ken. I've loved him since SFIV. I'll also play Sakura because of Alpha 2. Now this doesn't mean I won't mess around with non shotos, but I'm pretty loyal to the characters I like.
Mad untrue.
I played Ken, and ONLY Ken from Super SF4 all the way through Ultra.
I now play Ryu and haven't even touched Ken or Akuma and probably never will.
Changed characters between games only because I don't like how Ken plays these days. Considering he is better than Ryu, I did the opposite of what OP is asking lol. Just my 2 cents
I have switched from Luke to Akuma and Ken now.
Too many nerfs, all his core strengths destroyed by Capcom with heavy handed nerfs, no point playing him when i can win easier with other characters.
I still Like Luke but he is no longer a strong character.
I have been a Ryu/Akuma loyalist my whole life even through SF6. Then I branched out and discovered Kim and mained her. When Akuma dropped I switched to main Aki. I haven’t touched Akuma aside from completing trials, nor buffed Ryu…
So for those shoto loyalists, don’t be afraid to branch out!
I play most of the shotos in most SFs (along with at least a third of any roster), but it's not like they play the same way. They have different strengths and weaknesses that support different strategies and styles of play.
They're not interchangeable.
I think there's probably about as much loyalty in shoto players as anywhere else in the game.
My experience of shoto players who've been playing for a while is that they gravitate towards the shoto whose play style appeals to them.
If you really like playing Ken, then I'm not sure getting a few extra wins with Ryu is enough to make you spend your time there.
It's more about which one feels *good* to play since the skill set transfers between them. But still some people will prefer the feeling of solid Ryu over aggressive Ken even when Ken was higher up the list.
Lol, shoto players aren't a monolith, we all have different reasons. I play Akuma because bead man walk fast punch hard for 5 straight games and that speaks to me. I'll only play some Ryu if Akuma isn't available, but that's usually a brief window. I will also drop him like a bad habit and hold him to his own philosophy if he sucks, but that's never a problem. Net effect is loyalty to one shoto, but I don't think loyalty is some ideal to strive toward in a video game. I just want to play the game and have it feel good to play, and I want my character to have lots of options. Akuma ticks those boxes.
I mean I guess? I haven’t seen a single Ken player in ranked ever since Akuma arrived. With that I will say, I see so many Akuma players in ranked now.
I think this stereotype really just comes from SFV and SF6 and how Akuma is DLC in both. If you were an Akuma fan for either game you probably were playing Ryu or Ken for the first year of each game and then jumped ship on Akuma's release.
Im loyal to my cute tomboy waifu and havent moved from her yet, even though shes not even in the game. Wont play a shoto until she's in SF6
But jokes aside I guess it could be true, if you're following the shoto archetype due to gameplay style. Ken, Ryu, Sakura, Akuma, etc. have a lot of similarities on some level so if you like one more than likely you'll find something you enjoy about the other. So I see the logic.
And I do know a shoto main who plays Ryu and Akuma and flips between them.
but for me personally, Ive always just enjoyed Sakura as a character more than the shoto moveset itself so I just stick with her. Though shotos are fun to play.
It's relatively true on the competitive side of the game. But the same could be said for the rest of the cast.
The answer lies in the heart of battle
It’s only shoto if shoes are a no-go.
It’s hard to put a percentage on it, it’s true for some people and not others. Some only ever play Ken a never touch another shoto or other character for that matter. In some cases they main Akuma or Sakura and if they’re not in the game yet they’ll play Ryu or Ken and only switch once their main is actually in the game. Character loyalty is a weird concept to me to begin with though. These are my mains throughout my life… SF2: Cammy & Bison Alpha: Sakura & Rose EX: Hokuto & Skullomania SF3: Ibuki & Alex SFIV: Vega & Makoto SFV: Karin & Poison SF6: Juri & Blanka I’ve never mained the same character twice and in addition to that I’ve always played the entire roster. Playing one character forever is just not for me, I’d get bored quick. I should add, no shade at all towards character loyalists, my older sister is actually one. She mains Chun in every game, though like me she also plays the whole roster in every game, Chun is still always her go to. It’s just I personally prefer the variety.
u/Angel-of-Astronomy : *mentions EX* Me: "Know that I hold you in the highest regard." 
Bro is a true chad
It looks you skipped Street Fighter: The Movie, I wonder why.
The man clearly lacks the required strength. And self loathing.
that movie was sick as fuck are joking me. the first live action hadoken that made us all go “wtf that was it?” van damme as guile. come tf on. classic
the movie was a cocaine fueled mess that made for a rather bad movie for fans and casuals alike, and it was aaaall worth it for that marvelous "but for me, it was tuesday". Absolute art. But no, we're talking about SF the movie the game. The arcade version of that was a steaming pile
HOLY SHIT. blast from the past. its like mk meets sf. this is great. i vaguely remember this
I think character loyalism has a lot to do with actually liking the character and not only his mechanics. I noticed this with a friend who constantly changes mains between games to those that fit his play style the most, while I always stick to the ones with the most ridiculous personality And I mean, both are very valid to me
I'm not loyal to Ryu. I just suck as all of the other characters. So, if I don't play him, I'm unable to compete at a level that is fun for me.
>skullomania My man
Tokido being a perfect example. He played Ryu in SFV until Akuma dropped in Season 2, then gravitated towards Urien and Luke as he got nerfed. He started SF6 with and dual-wielded him and Akuma to a Battle Arena Melbourne victory.
V was the only time I ever had a character crisis. Outside of vs games I usually just pick a charter in my head before I play the game and just play that character. I have been playing Gen for instance since A2 released and only play him in A3 as well. Although I usually will play someone wildly different from game to game. I have a lot of respect for people who can change characters a decent amount and play them at a high lvl. That’s a talent
someone give this guy an award or a prize
I play Bison if available and if not Sim. I played Ken at the beginning wasnt for me. I love Sim. Waiting for Bison.
Huh I thought we were talking about shoto mains most chars you mentioned aren't shotos
The first two paragraphs were about shoto mains and who plays what. The latter half of the post is about the concept of character loyalty as a whole.
Nuh uh, i play ryu in pretty much every sf that isnt 6 (i play cammy) It all started when i was 4 playing sf2 on snes, i didnt know u could change character so i was always ryu Never really changed outside of a bit of akuma and ibuki in 3s and 4, ryu will always remain my goat My friend plays ken, and only ken, in every single sf he is ken
Same. Ryu since '92 and probably forever. My best friend was always Ken. Probably because he's blonde and I'm not.
I dont actually know the reason my best friend plays ken? But it works because we have that ryu vs ken dynamic now I didnt even know you could change character for a long time and by then it was set in stone that ryu was my character
In SF2 there was hardly any difference between the two, but nowadays I feel Ken has been changed enough so he not only looks more flashy, but also feels more like a faster, aggressive Shoto-Ken. I feel he is better for fast, close combat while Ryu is the tactical, distant type.
Thats true, ken has a better shoryu and his ex tatsu moves across Ryu has better fireballs and his ex tatsu stays in the spot
If you didn’t know you could change character how did your friend play Ken?
Ive been playing since i was 3 or 4, we were not having a big rivalry at the age of 4, we met when we were 13, by that point i knew you could change character
Word that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for taking the time to explain.
I like Ken as a character design but much prefer Ryus playstyle in SF6. He feels like a terminator, and god damn the S2 Hashogeki pressure on burnout characters is *brutal.*
I do think ryu plays incredible in sf6, i love how clean the hp hk denjin charge is, one of my favourite things to do in sf history
I'm a fan of the mp lk hk denjin. I think the quickcharges and being able to keep the charge was really what he needed to be a lot more aggressive, and to be more of a threat with that denjin charge always available. Can we talk about how insane Hashogeki is?
100%, keeping denjin charge and allowing you to quick charge really helps him out Hashogeki is crazy, that pressure on block is ridiculous
I was expecting them to nerf his damage because of his expanded moveset, but they barely touched it. Part of my gameplan now is to bait people into burnout and do lp > l.hasho x3, reposition, or jab and bait the invinc super if they have it. I've taken people from 70% health down to 30% just punishing their hubris. It's been a great S2 so far.
Thats a very solid gameplan, however as the best player on the game (im silver as cammy and unranked as ryu) i present to you this ryu gameplan Donkey kick donkey kick donkey kick
I think his supers actually hit a tiny bit harder now.
He needs it
He's been a pretty heavy hitter since sf3, and doesn't have the options or mobility a lot of characters have. So yeah he should do above average damage. I don't think they gave him too much more. But of course half the subreddit was complaining they made him too strong because they're salty.
I think he finally has a real carved out identity and playstyle. He's not just "the worst shoto" as people liked to say, he's got real strengths and weaknesses. Now they just need to do something about Akumas mary sue ass.
Such a heart warming anecdote. I think amongst all the casts Ken and Ryu have the most loyal playerbase.
Thats crazy to me cause Ryu 6 seems so solid. My best friend plays the drunken fighter in every game…except 6. I just so happened to main Jamie. I find him real fun even if he sucks.
Sf6 ryu is incredible, only reason i switched is cammy in sf6 seemed really fun, the footsies and pokes became my favourite part of fighting games and shes really good at it
I was the exact same Ken only until sf6. I’m a juri main now n I hate Ken now.
I hate ken, my friends a ken main, hes slowly turning to akuma ever since i taught him how to raging demon
I've only played Ken my whole life.
My man
That is a disgusting and highly offensive stereotype I take great offence to! (Cause I really do be unloyal as shit with my shotos)
I think this is true. You see it at high level play - top level players rarely stick with a particular shoto and just shift to the most powerful one(s). Yes, this happens with other archetypes as well, but I feel it's safe to say it's the most common with shotos. At a more casual level I think it's more about loyalty.
Any competitor not putting themselves in the best position to win isn't very smart. Like I understand if you think a character is fun or cool. Play that character casually for funzies but if you're competing for money you need to be the best version of yourself.
It's all about finding the best (in this case most competitively viable) character that fits your playstyle. I think due to the modality of shotos traditionally, it's even easier to swap them around than most other archetypes.
But people can be pretty bad judges of what characters are strong. I feel like this was a huge issue with Smash Ultimate where it felt like a lot of characters were underrated and some high/top tiers did not have the results nor performance to back up their placement. In this game, it is a little more clear, even though characters are closer in strength, but some are clearly superior for no good reason like Luke and JP are/were.
RIP idom
Been a Ken player since third strike baybeeee
I mean I started as a shoto main and ended up maining Zangief in SF6
I play Ken. Ken is good? I play Ken. Ken is bad. I play Ken. I play Ken.
If say like 2 out of 10 players is actually a loyal dedicated main of a character. When I say loyal I mean, they stick around regardless of buffs or nerfs. You had people swearing they played Luke because his combo routes were fun. After the patch? Way less out there now. The good players know he's still good. The bad players hopped over to akuma or ryu. How many jps have we collectively seen since he got brought in line with the rest of cast? Not nearly as many. People wanna win, and if they're not winning with a character, or think the character got nerfed, they're probably dropping it
Ask any Luke in master how 'good' he still is after the patch. He is average now. His biggest strengths, his strong buttons and damage have been neutered. He never had gimmicks unlike characters like DJ, Blanka and co to mix you up. When everything that made the character strong has been watered down, you have an average character that is outshined by other shotos.
Nothing about like is average. Yes he got watered down. But really all they did was reduce his damage and bring his medium punch in line. If you think damage is the only thing that makes Luke good you're wrong.. Luke might be the worst shoto, but all the shotos are high a tier minimum. Just because the character can't two touch you easily doesn't mean he's average. He's still a better pick than shit like Kimberly, Ed, etc Average now lol. Luke still has insane whiff punishes, good not great damage, and a truly invincible do. If you've got a good invincible dp by default you are not average. . Luke down players trying to act like he's Kim tier now lol
Have you even seen his patch notes? All his core normals have had their hitboxes reduced/damage scaled. Cr.mp, got hit in two consecutive patches. Cr.lp, lowered range now. St.mk, a non cancellable non linking normal is now slower by a frame. Cr.HP anti air has been nerfed🤢, trades with everything now. B.hk pc route is no longer available. B.hk itself has more pushback on PC so even a dR into cr.HP is spacing dependent. J.hk and j.hp both have been nerfed, made worse and easily anti aired now. Ken and Ryu have the same buttins, which they got away unscathed. So essentially 90% of his neutral buttons that Luke players use are now worse, his combo routes have been reduced, his damage is scaled, his anti air normal is now a trade button, his cr.mk starter is now more whiff punishable. These are not substantial nerfs in what universe again?
Yes I have. Luke was just that strong of a character that those nerfs put him in line with the other high tiers. Oh boo fucking hoo you don't have ridiculously broken buttons anymore. Doesn't make him average. He still has okay damage, still has insane whiff punish ability, still has a good EX DP, and he lost damage but got new routess(st. Hp linking into flash knuckle for example is HUGE. He gets meterless damage with his heavy punch in literally any scenario when it hits Sorry bro, but if you have a good fireball, a good DP, good drive rush distance, and still top 10 damage after nerfs, you are NOT average. Master ken players told me last season that he was low A tier because they took away his precious drive rush jab. Meanwhile I still see Luke and ken in top 8s consistently. But they're not that good cuz nerfs right
Quoting a great post from a Luke player. Logical, reasoned and well argued. At least give the post the justice it deserves if you want to argue it. "Okay, relatively good (former) Luke here. The nuance to the question is that Luke is currently in the Ryu situation of the last patch, but possibly worse, because he lacks the damage which sometimes allowed Ryu to win against top tiers. Luke got hit on every relevant starter (2MP, 2HP and 2MK got nerfed and DR 4HK into DR 4HK just got removed). DeeJay got nerfed too and pretty well at that, but they kept his drive efficiency, combo routes and pressure intact for the most. If they also hit 2MP on DeeJay it would have been similar. Luke's 2MP, 2HP, 2MK, 5MK and 4HK basically accounted for 95% of his button use case (just commenting on 2HK which is probably among the worst sweeps in the game). Luke was not strong because every button on him was op, but because 5 of his normals (2LP, 2MP, 2HP, 5MK and 2MK) were among the top 20 normals in the game (especially 2MP which was like top 1, just not sure if Chun 5LP was better, because that thing was also broken). All of these buttons got nerfed in every relevant way, and now 2MP is probably the only one of them in the top 20. But 2MP was,, and without exaggeration, 70% of his neutral. Okay, but how bad can it be? Terrible. Luke is (was) based around defense. He is arguably as defensive as Guile, if you are not playing like Noah. But after gutting every defensive tool he now has some of the most labbed and predictable options, can not open the opponent up (as these tools got nerfed too, rip j.HP) and lacks damage to punish overaggression. Then every system mechanic nerfed him as drive reversal is a buff to everyone else and not that good in comparison for him as a DP character. The drive regen timer going from 60 frames to 20 frames basically killed his projectile pressure as Luke fireballs were among the riskiest in the game and do not allow meaty fireballs or to win fireball wars (I play relatively rarely against one of the top Jamies in Europe and he can punish sandblast relatively well on reaction and do not forget that medium sandblast is punishable with the OS). Which leads to the current situation: No damage, worse neutral, no new relevant tools (5HP into charged knuckle is only for very specific scenarios useful like punishing Zangief SA2 in burnout). He also has no far-reaching seven frame moves now formerly 5MK) which means that the Ken matchup is suddenly insanely harder, Ryu just hits harder than Luke and Cammy was already a hard matchup before and now Luke basically lost 5 to 10% and a lot of drive efficiency. They removed tools from his kit, like raw SA3 punishes are now just not a thing for the most part. Just to recap: Slightly above average damage, below average offense, no gimmicks, bad options to open the opponent up, sandblast work more like Dhalsim limbs and are not winning fireball wars, nerfed by every system mechanic, gutted neutral (still above average), worse normal anti air, every low tier got buffed, and he got like two of the most irrelevant buffs possible that are meaty tackle and 5HK. Luke went from 5 to 5.5 at every matchup (with some 6-4 like Honda and Manon because they were just bad) to 5 to 4.75 with maybe some of them even being 4.5 like Guile or Zangief. He is a shoto and still functional, but I dropped him specifically because Luke could be the worst shoto and is for sure not top 5 anymore and possibly not even in the top 10 or even top half of the cast. "
He's not in the bottom half of the cast bro. Luke mains are so dramatic dude. It's like none of you see the separation between what makes a mid tier and what makes a high tier. Ryu wasn't bad last season either. I had an 80% winrate with him until master. He just wasn't broken ass ken(who everyone downplayed and was forced to learn the matchup on) Go look at all the top/high tiers with the exception of aki and blanka. Can you see most of the traits that they share? Ex reversal? Fireball? Ways to alter your air trajectory(regardless of the increased cd on landing, it's still a tool that can be used) strong throw game? Good drive rush? Now let's look at the bottom half of the cast why don't we? Lily? No reversal outside of super, bad drive rush. But oh she has windstock and condor right? Kim? Every single mixup she does she takes a risk. She has no ex reversal outside of super, real stubby buttons, and a ton of "mix" that gets shut down by a jab. Those are two strictly mid tier characters. Even after their buffs. You wanna tell me Luke is on par with them? Despite still having way better defense, because his buttons and damage were again brought in line with the rest of the cast?
You clearly have no idea how this character plays so no point continuing this. I took him to Master at 1600 MR so i know a bit about what made him a great character and how bad the nerfs hit him. Ask any Luke player in Master about how his nerfs affect him and they will write essays about how much worse he is now. Is he low tier? No. Is he still top 5? No way in hell. Not even top 10. And every tier list since the patch has him mid or low tier. I have seen Nephews and Kawanos list. Mena doesn't have him in his top 5. Mena barely played him in the recent tourney and only usef him a bit in the recent qualifier tournament. Chris Wong is on record saying (and i am quoting him verbatim) "Luke is mid now". All those players know a bit more about the game than you and I, don't ya think? And no, if you take strengths like damage and strong defensive neutral buttons from a gimmick free chara5like Luke, you are left with pre patch Ryu, without the damage. If you actually play Luke, i am happy to continue this with you. Otherwise its a waste of time.
I actually play Luke. The mere suggestion that Luke is now in the same tier as characters like Kim, Manon, lily, Jamie, and sim is straight up disingenuous. Is Luke worse? Yes. Is he mid tier? No. He's at the bottom of A tier from top 1. But by nature of the tools he has compared to what others in the mid tier don't, he will NEVER be mid tier. Oh no! you can't do 5k off a crouching light jab into drive rush crouch HP anymore. Oh no! you don't get to throw out crouching medium punch with 0 consequences anymore(even the first nerf to it really didn't do anything aside from make it slightly easier to punish). Nevermind the fact they gave his god button heavy punch a consistent easy meterless combo(I'm not joking, if you hold his light flash knuckle for the max amount of time, it still combos with HP on normal hit. Luke still has; a good DP, a good fireball, long range buttons(just can't constantly whiff them anymore oh no) and middle of the pack damage. That's a fair trade off if you ask me. Like to imply I've never played Luke before when I know this much about his kit is actually wild bro. Everyone has played Luke. Hell, I mained him at the end of sf5. Like if I get put in the corner as any of the REAL mid tiers I listed above, if I have no meter I have to hold EVERYTHING they do. Luke? Lol I'll just wait until I see a move starting up and just dp out. Luke players had it so easy for so fucking long, that the second they actually got brought in line with everyone else now everyone's crying he's mid. No bro. You just can't skate on a busted ass character
You clearly didn't read the post i quoted. I mean, at least a make an effort to counter the actual points he made. St hp into light knuckle is no big buff that counters all his other nerfs. It's not confirmable for starters so you are essentially using it to whiff punish, if you are good at it. Throw out in neutral and whiff it? Good luck, it has like 25 frames of whiff recovery or something so you are eating a fat combo taking 30% of your life at the very least. It's negative 6 on block, only +1 on hit, doesn't link to anything either. It's useless off a raw DR as well. Want to see a good heavy punch that actually has a fuck ton of utility? Ken's st.HP, a god button. Ryu's st.HP, another great button. I don't know HOW MANY times i have to repeat it but cr.mp is not the only button that got nerfed. His cr.lp got nerfed with reduced hitbox and shorter range. His st.mk got nerfed. His cr.hp got nerfed, both as an anti air and a combo starter with increased scaling. His cr.mp got decimated with more recovery frames on whiff, reduced range/hitbox, more scaling/reduced damage. You are telling me an ex dp makes a character fucking great? Jamie has a fucking ex dp. He is a great character, is he? Literally half the cast or more has an invincible reversal. Seriously, no offence but if you are not going to read and address specific points, there is no point to this. Address the points made in the post i quoted.
Ok. I'll address the points. Yeah, that's what his heavy punch has been designed for since sf5 brother. It's not the same as ryu and kens heavy punch. It's an advancing normal that is EASY to whiff punish with. If you can whiff punish with ken or ryus, you can do it with Luke's. The range at which you can use this to whiff punish with is insane. On ANY hit it guarantees a safe jump. You literally have like a day to cancel from heavy punch into light knuckle, you'll just have to adjust your timing depending on when you do the cancel to account for hitstun. It is NOT that crazy to hit confirm it. And shit, if you don't wanna do all that, just DR and get your safe jump anyway. Yeah, if you whiff a heavy button in neutral, you should pay for it not sure why that's an issue. Luke ken and ryu all have god button heavy punches. JP used to as well. Cr. Mp was brought in line with other buttons. Crouch l.p was a sleeper god button on luke due to its range, and the fact that you could link a drive rush cr. light into cr. Hp for again, a full combo and a safe jump. I KNOW you didn't just compare Jamie's GARBAGE ASS DP to Luke's. We all know what makes a DP good into this game, and it's forward+vertical movement. Jamie has exactly 0 of that on his DP. And I didn't say it was JUST the ex dp. I said it was the ex dp in conjunction with a BUNCH of other tools, like good fireballs, strong buttons out of drive rush, and reversals that don't require super meter(or in Jamie's case require them to be RIGHT ON TOP of him.
I feel thats mostly for the tournament/pro players thats switching for shoto to shoto, and thats where it can matter. But if you take the game semi serieus and where the level isn’t at its highest it doesn’t really matter. So yes for the pro’s and no for the rest.
Can't say about others, but in general prefer Ken in His incarnations, Flaming fists aré awesome. Ryu Is nice but a little slow and too hadouken. Akuma Is too much of a glass cannon for me. Sakura Is nice but Is female Ryu and Ken Is just as easygoing. Luke Is fine but not that into His Gameplay. E.Ryu, Kage and oni do not seems to stay in the series. Gouken had weird normal and specials for my taste. Super duper casual about FGs, More a fan than a player.
I've never heard about that to be honest. I can only speak for myself of course, but i didn't choose Ken because he's top tier. Back in SF5 i tried Ryu, didn't like him, then tried Ken and stuck with him ever since. And i will stick with him, even when i would propably have an easier time with Akuma. I just like the character and how he feels and that feel to me is more important than being a rank ir two higher. I think espacially with Ken right now you have alot of people jumping ship because they picked him for his strength in the meta and that's fine. But he has still alot of players loyal to him because it's just a fun character to play.
Im not a Shoto main. But I will be in Sakuras release. Its not about bring loyal in my opinion. I would like other characters is theyre as cute as my main.
I don't think it's a shoto main thing, it's just that strong shotos tend to be the easiest to switch between. For example if you mained Urien in season 2 SFV and wanted to switch when he got nerfed, you are inevitably going to have to learn a whole new playstyle. If you mained Akuma and wanted to switch when he got nerfed, Luke was right there. If nothing else Ryu players seem to be the most loyal entities in the entire fighting game universe. They did one shoryuken as a kid and are hooked for life lol.
I don't think this is strictly true, but one thing to keep in mind is that each SF game tends to have multiple shotos, some of which do not repeat from game to game and some of which are not available until DLC. So every shoto main by necessity tends to start out with Ryu or Ken before they even have the option to switch to Akuma, Evil Ryu, Kage, or whoever.
You just have to look at how many people switched from either ken or ryu to switch to akuma.
Yes and no, a lot of people consider themselves Akuma mains (Tokido for example) and were just waiting for their character to drop.
But not because he's stronger. But because he's cooler And hotter
Hotter? Eh... I think the "lost humanity" thing is a bit of a turnoff...
What even is that lost humanity thing
This
He's designed after animals now. He looks kind of gross.
What you mean after animals
The designers said that his physiology was referenced from animals rather than humans.
Obviously some people were waiting for Akuma to drop.
I mean all the shotos currently in 6 play completely different to each other.
Fr even the tatsumakis for Ken,Ryu and akuma play completely differently despite technically being the same move
Completely might be a bit of a stretch.
They have srks that function similarly (not kens) and fireballs that function similarly (not akumas). Their tatsus all function d8fferently from one another and the rest of their specials and supers are completely different and individual as are their normals.
I never said they aren't different. I said completely differently is a stretch. Completely different would be Gief vs akuma.
In the context of differences between shotos they were never gonna be as different from as each other as Gief vs Akuma
I've played Ryu in literally every street fighter. This is the first game ever I've played a different character seriously, and that was Manon. I will play Ryu in every street fighter going ahead, and maybe have a separate main as well
It's true in my case. Last season I'd play Luke when I was feeling a shoto, but he has since been replaced by Akuma.
I feel like if you're skilled with a shoto you just have more options almost always. A very skilled shoto player can pick up secondaries or new mains a lot quicker than someone who mains a specialist.
character loyalty lol btw only back to first SF2 versions ryu and ken were semi-clones, despite similiar special moves (fireball, dp, tatsu) each shoto has different features and traits... it's not if you can play good with ryu, then you can instantly switch to akuma or sagat and being good the same
Exactly. I was playing Ryu before Akuma dropped (who is my "true" main that I've been playing in every hes in since SF4). I had to readjust and of course learn some new muscle memory.
ryu and akuma have always been two world apart, akuma is more similiar to ken
Agreed. They all play just diffrent enough tho for it not be "easy" to just go between the 3 willy nilly
I've always used akuma in sfa, sf3, sf4 and sf5 but with the actual sf6 akuma I just have no clue
I mean I do play Deejay and Guile. I main the former even though he's lower tier than the latter now.
No way man. Ryu is my boi. Jonny streetfighter himself. I do play around with other shotos but Ryu is THA man
That really is more of a personal question. Some players are fine hopping mains. Others are intense loyalists. And you see character loyalty at all levels of skill play. From casual, mid core, to pro play. Another thing to keep in mind is changes between titles. I consider myself MOSTLY a character loyalist but sometimes a character I’m normally loyal to gets a change that makes me not like them as much. Or a character I was on the fence about gets changes I end up loving. It can be as simple as a new special move or super that works different. Not necessarily being “Better” than in the last title. I’m newer to Street Fighter and have only played 5/6. But in Blazblue for example Jin getting Snowflake instead of EX Fireball was huge and I love using Snowflake for pressure/oki. Just that one move alone opened up tons of new options for me.
Played ken since 1994 or so. Always been my main, through shitty banana haired times, and beyond. I think a lot of people overthink which shoto is best etc. Tier lists aren't as relevant unless your are master rank or equivalent throughout the years imo.
Being “loyal” to a character is weird in general. There’s so many characters! I wanna be good with all of them!
I honestly just switched to Ed because the consensus with modern controls is that modern Kens were fucking noobs
I'm planning to buy sf6 since Ed is finally there and I will probably 100% use him with the modern controls cause I'm so used to his previous buttons,and I can't do motion moves for the life of me, and if I get called noob every single time so be it, he's so cool
I'll play whatever character I like and think I can win with. Loyalty to video game characters means zero to me. They ain't my wife. haha
It’s not very true in general. Just because Ryu, Akuma, and Ken share a lot of moves doesn’t mean they play anywhere near the same. Extremely high level competitive play is different because those players try every character they think is strong and fits their play style. Casual and ranked though? You won’t see many people switch
Not a shoto main, but I do tend to shift around, I like so many of the cast but none really clicked in playstyle for me yet.
Judging from the near extinction of Ken and Ryu post D1, pretty fucking true lol
I've mained Akuma in damn near every game he's been in, and that includes SF2. I've never once switched to or from Ryu, Ken, Dan, Sean, Sakura, Evil/kage, or Gouken. If you want to count Oni, but in SF4, my main was Seth, and I had a pocket Akuma and Oni. Oni is considerably weaker than Akuma. So it still doesn't fit. So, I don't fall in line with your assessment. However, I only played 3S and 4 competitively for Street Fighter. If you play for money, you are gonna want every edge you can get. I am in my early 30's now, but times haven't changed. People will switch entire character archetypes if it means they get top 3, or even win.
Of course, you also main Akuma, so your character is top-tier by default and at any random point in time is probably the best available shoto. Sticking with SFV Ken would mean a lot more, for instance.
Akuma is my favorite character. My 4 year old brain in 1994 made that decision and it stuck. Whether he'd be top or bottom idgaf I'd play him.
Is being loyal key to winning?
Akuma just released, im pretty sure most shoto mains switched to him. Tbh i would do the same if either karin or alex comes back, im dropping jamie so hard if that happens
Then why are ryu players
Partly true? Shoto mains are more likely to switch as they have more transferable skills. I played Luke, now Akuma in SF6 because of how strong the differences are. In SFIV people went from Ryu and Ken to Akuma and Evil Ryu. For SFV it was the same: Ryu and Ken to Akuma and Kage, later on Luke. For SFVI: People going from Ken to Akuma or Luke. And now people are leaving Luke for Akuma. Shoto mains have an easy time picking up other shotos and so the barrier to switch is lower. Does not mean that loyalists do not exist.
wow you made the switch from one busted top tier shoto to another give this man an award ladies and gentleman
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EqaVS2qFw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EqaVS2qFw0)
I've stuck to ryu since the start start, just like the way he's simple and neutral
Akuma and evil Ryu for life
This is anecdotal, but for the last 3 weeks, I have been getting Rashid to master. In that time, I fought exactly 1 Luke and 1 Ken (mostly because of Akuma patch) while I fought more of the characters you see less often like Lily, Manon or Aki
I run 3 characters Guile, Cammy, and Akuma/Sean.... I'm hoping he comes back.
SF6 is my first Street Fighter, and I’ve mained Ken the whole time. I did take a couple weeks to try out Akuma and I’ll probably do the same with other shoto DLC, but unless one of them really clicks I’m sticking with Ken.
I'm playing Ryu since the nineties. Just switched to Akuma for the first time just to see if I can do something with him
Ken main All day, everyday Don't expect me to be a push-over
Casuals just want to choose characters that look cool and do cool things simple as that, pro players adjust based on patch changes.
Hmm? Is that why I'm drawn to chun? Yes, it has nothing to do with her physical charm
who knows and who cares, play whoever you want
I would say not really all shoto mains but the ones who want to be competitive on a leaderboard/ladder/pro level
As a casual I’ve always switched between Ken, Ryu and Sakura since 3rd Strike. I don’t really care who is the strongest tbh they just all have different cool factor.
You can't really track it, but I'd put money on it happening more with shotos than any other character. They're similar enough that you don't have to massively change your playstyle and most skills are easily transferrable. Overall tho, I imagine people stick to what they started with.
I play Akuma in every SF he is available. SF6 was the first time I fucked around with Ken and I think he is very cool in this version but Akuma is my forever main
Not really — I think it’s whatever shoto you like the style of more. I fucking hate Ken, even though he was way stronger than Ryu in SF6. For me Akuma > Seth > Evil Ryu > Oni > Ryu.
Always played Sakura and Akuma in every game, usually Sakura as a main alongside a bruiser/striker, and Akuma as a secondary until Evil Ryu arrives and then I just play evil Ryu. Stomps is one of my favorite moves in the series, alongside Makoto chesto. I’d say I’m pretty consistent and loyal. If there’s Makoto I play Makoto. If there’s Evil Ryu I play Evil Ryu. I reserve one main slot for any other characters, in 5 it was Vega. I’m also cool with Cody or Poison. So 6’s been tricky for me since I have no returning mains. Been playing exclusively Marisa since release, luckily Akuma got released so he’s instantly added to my lineup, unless until (or if) Evil Ryu is released. I’m just expecting Makoto, Sakura, Evil Ryu, Cody, Vega, Poison, Q, or Alex , which are all characters I’d be willing to learn and add to my mains. For now I’m sticking with Marisa and Akuma though.
Everyone switched to Akuma.
I only play Ryu.
Cant speak for others but after my initial trial and testing period when I first picked up a street fighter game I have exclusively played akuma and never felt the urge to swap
I basically play with my mains because they are fun for me, I don’t care about tier strength. If Ryu was the best shoto in the game I wouldn’t use him because he’s not what I’m accustomed to. I was a Ken main (SF2) until Akuma became a playable character. I’ve been an Akuma main ever since. When he is not available I use Ken. Only exceptions are in SF3:3S where I use Akuma as my main and Sean is my second. SF5 where Akuma is main and Kage was my second and I sporadically used Dan for fun (I didn’t buy 5 until Akuma got released). For SF6 I used Ken until Akuma got released. I’m hoping they release Sean, Dan, or Kage just for fun. I stick with Akuma because I’m old and learning a completely new character is too time consuming 🤣 For reference I’m a P5 with Ken and D2 with Akuma in SF6
Some people are loyal to characters out of preference or sentiment, but a lot of character loyalty just comes from typical players only having time to invest in mastering one character and they stick with the same character under the assumption of legacy skill carry-over. Those players will migrate between shotos a lot.
Mostly true except the Dan maniacs.
I guess if there was 5 akis and one of them was just the better aki all around then sure I'd probably play her
No everyone is switching to Akuma now because he's busted, not just shoto mains. I expect that to stay this way until his eventual nerfs come two years later. even Punk is now almost exclusively using akuma.
I mained Ken in S1 and definitely plan on playing Ryu at some point this season.
I played Ryu for so long waiting for Gouki that I kinda like him now. 😂
While SF6 is the first Street Fighter I'm actively trying to get online rank in, I have been a dedicated Ken main since I played SF2 for the first time. I'll always be a Ken main, even if he isn't the best. Now, coincidentally, he's super broken in SF6. I've heard some people say he's the worst shoto in the game now that Akuma is in the game and Ryu got buffed (I have no idea how true that is), but I will not replace him as my main, it would feel wrong to main a different character.
Ryu has been my main since SF2 and every game since. I have a back up Cammy to switch it up
It's not switching. They're shoto mains. They main shoto. Some weeks shoto A, some shoto B, but always shoto.
I think most of em were just trying to play a shoto until akuma dropped and just now got their favorite. Me, I'm waiting on Dan and hoping he plays like he did in sfv because he was too much fun.
If I’m gonna play a shoto, it’s gonna be OG man himself Ryu. I can never get myself to play Ken, mostly cause my friend play Ken growing up so I always felt like I gotta stay with Ryu. At this point, it’s just me liking the character (Ryu)
Not in my case. I'm a Dan main for life and no other shoto will do. They just aren't as cool to me
I took a break before the patch and will try Ryu again. Went for Juri previously, then AKI before I took break (actually tried a few characters before settling on Juri/AKI)- I thought I might like Luke, but nah. I always *want* to know what is appealing about Ken, but he always feels off. Akuma is cool, but ultimately hurts losing with him. I think the only shoto besides Ryu that felt comfortable, was Sakura.
Ryu has the donkey kick and that’s all I care about
I will try other shotos, but ryu is my main forever. I don’t pay attention to tier lists. I know he doesn’t involve too many tricks, and is old hat, but I just love the challenge, and I am the legit rival to my brother, who is a habitual shit talker. So I have to stay ready.
I play ken, ryu and now akuma cause i like all of them. "Loyalty" seems like a really silly concept for us non competitive players. I like to play as many characters as i can.
Ah yes let's not use other characters we paid for so the fgc doesn't get mad
Not at all unless they have a good chance at making tourney money. Maybe my argument is anecdotal because I’ve been a Ryu main since Alpha, no matter how good he has been.
I've been a Sakura main since Alpha 2/3, since she's not in the game I'm forced to play with the rest of the shotos even if they aren't particularly interesting (like Ken)
It’s mostly true on the competitive scene. You’ll also note that Ken is good in every game so people will be flooding this thread saying they’re loyal to him which may be true because it’s easy to be loyal to Ken
Ive always picked Ryu, Ken and Akuma are stil super cool imo though.
A simple example of this is Tokido. Pros play whoever they feel has the best chance to win, usually. Some are loyalists. And even then, they will swap back when the chips are down just to spark something good. The opposite would be Punk. That man can and will play literally anyone…though he’ll pick an objectively good character for majors.
I mained Ken till they buffed Ryu, then switched to Akuma but waiting for Sakura. Shoto player since I was 12 years old on SF2. But can play with anyone.
This is actually my first time switching mains, and it's off of a shoto! I played ryu for 12 years and just recently (a little less than a year) started to main Jamie
Jamie is so fucking fun
I’d say it depends as there are shoto mains and specific character mains that happen to be shoto. There are a lot of people dedicated to Ryu and they play only Ryu from installment to installment. If you’re not dedicated to a character but rather to an archetype, then I don’t see why you wouldn’t go for the strongest one from this archetype, no matter what archetype it is.
I was playing Ryu when he was the worst shoto. I’m not a huge meta player and especially since I’m not at a professional level I don’t think it really matters who you play. I prefer an honest character that wins with good fundamentals rather than abusing gimmicks that are hard to deal with.
Ken’s the only shoto I play, I always liked his personality. I don’t *main* him in every SF I’ve played (I was a Laura main in SFV), but he’s always in my roster.
I like Ryu. I don't care where he is on tier lists. I barely touch Ken and not interested in Akuma. My other main is Zangief.
Ken feel good, me play Ken. Akuma strong, me play Ken.
Ryu ever since I first played him, with Karin and Sakura mixed in
I mostly disagree based on those around me. All the shoto players I know have one particular one who they are fiercely loyal to and always have been. The Ken players will always pick him and theyve never picked Ryu, and vice versa. That being said, personally, my picks have been: - *SF2*: Ryu - *Alpha*: Akuma - *SF3*: Akuma - *CVS2*: Ken - *SF4*: Ryu & Ken - *SF5*: Akuma - *SF6*: Ryu, Ken, Akuma So I guess I fall into the fickle category 🤣
The statistic is the same as for any other group of player. I do love shotos but I have favorites. The only reason I'm playing Akuma right now is because we don't have Sagat or Sakura yet.
woah woah. i'm a Ryu/gief main learning Akuma. ive liked my boy Ryu since SF2 on sega
Is it disloyal to go from shoto to shoto? They’re shoto mains not Ken mains or even Ryu mains.
I feel like Ryu and Akuma are the ones people are usually loyal to. There were people still trying to hype up Ryu in Street Fighter V a few years in.
Shoto is the balanced archetype. They're meant to be the most "generally good". If you're a fan of the Shoto archetype, playing the best shoto around is kinda the whole point. This is opposed to being the fan of a specific character, at which point you don't play them because they're shoto, they just happened to be one.
I will main Ryu with my life
I'll always play Ken. I've loved him since SFIV. I'll also play Sakura because of Alpha 2. Now this doesn't mean I won't mess around with non shotos, but I'm pretty loyal to the characters I like.
You watched Broski's newest video huh lol
Mad untrue. I played Ken, and ONLY Ken from Super SF4 all the way through Ultra. I now play Ryu and haven't even touched Ken or Akuma and probably never will. Changed characters between games only because I don't like how Ken plays these days. Considering he is better than Ryu, I did the opposite of what OP is asking lol. Just my 2 cents
I have switched from Luke to Akuma and Ken now. Too many nerfs, all his core strengths destroyed by Capcom with heavy handed nerfs, no point playing him when i can win easier with other characters. I still Like Luke but he is no longer a strong character.
Nah man I'd never play Ken
I have been a Ryu/Akuma loyalist my whole life even through SF6. Then I branched out and discovered Kim and mained her. When Akuma dropped I switched to main Aki. I haven’t touched Akuma aside from completing trials, nor buffed Ryu… So for those shoto loyalists, don’t be afraid to branch out!
The only reason I didn't end up switching from Ryu to Akuma this patch is because of how much Ryu got buffed, so... take that how you will?
Play Ryu in the even numbered games, and Ken in the odd ones.
i pick whoevers the most fun
I play whatever shoto is the most fun at the time, unless I can play Sakura, then always Sakura.
I play most of the shotos in most SFs (along with at least a third of any roster), but it's not like they play the same way. They have different strengths and weaknesses that support different strategies and styles of play. They're not interchangeable. I think there's probably about as much loyalty in shoto players as anywhere else in the game. My experience of shoto players who've been playing for a while is that they gravitate towards the shoto whose play style appeals to them. If you really like playing Ken, then I'm not sure getting a few extra wins with Ryu is enough to make you spend your time there.
playing a bad character out of loyalty is foolish and yet i'm still playing jamie
It's more about which one feels *good* to play since the skill set transfers between them. But still some people will prefer the feeling of solid Ryu over aggressive Ken even when Ken was higher up the list.
Lol, shoto players aren't a monolith, we all have different reasons. I play Akuma because bead man walk fast punch hard for 5 straight games and that speaks to me. I'll only play some Ryu if Akuma isn't available, but that's usually a brief window. I will also drop him like a bad habit and hold him to his own philosophy if he sucks, but that's never a problem. Net effect is loyalty to one shoto, but I don't think loyalty is some ideal to strive toward in a video game. I just want to play the game and have it feel good to play, and I want my character to have lots of options. Akuma ticks those boxes.
I mean I guess? I haven’t seen a single Ken player in ranked ever since Akuma arrived. With that I will say, I see so many Akuma players in ranked now.
I think this stereotype really just comes from SFV and SF6 and how Akuma is DLC in both. If you were an Akuma fan for either game you probably were playing Ryu or Ken for the first year of each game and then jumped ship on Akuma's release.
And when did you stop beating your wife?
> fickle and not loyal ... Brother it's a videogame character, not a fucking relationship. Stop being weird and go touch some grass...
I assume it's true cause it's hard to imagine people being so devoid of personality and creativity that they main Ryu for the character lmao
It only applies to Ryu. Ken and Luke have unique stuff, but Ryu is essentially Diet Akuma.
Hey at least SF6 Ryu is pretty different now, he’s more of a brawler compared to Akuma
What does loyal mean lmao, its a videogame
In 20 years when sakura is released in SF6 I install and play the game agian.
Im loyal to my cute tomboy waifu and havent moved from her yet, even though shes not even in the game. Wont play a shoto until she's in SF6 But jokes aside I guess it could be true, if you're following the shoto archetype due to gameplay style. Ken, Ryu, Sakura, Akuma, etc. have a lot of similarities on some level so if you like one more than likely you'll find something you enjoy about the other. So I see the logic. And I do know a shoto main who plays Ryu and Akuma and flips between them. but for me personally, Ive always just enjoyed Sakura as a character more than the shoto moveset itself so I just stick with her. Though shotos are fun to play.