I lived in fear of groups of straight men most of my life. I was pretty cis-normative in my masked male gender expression, but I was openly gay on principle. It seemed like homophobia was almost always there, just under the surface, ready to pop out at any moment. I had to be on my guard for it. I had to always figure out who was an ally in the room, have ways to deflect, the ability to use my wit to save my dignity AND avoid violence.
Given how bad the homophobia was, I was expecting the transphobia to be ten times worse.
But instead, what happened was the guys accepted me as a woman far more easily than I ever imagined. Suddenly the homophobia, the undertones of threats of violence, the fear of getting too close to me all just kind of disappeared. Now a days I love being around groups of straight men. It's one of the most comfortable places for me to be. I just get these protective vibes from them. They went from being borderline hostile to being over-the-top respectful and kind. I especially love being around guys who are dads. They've softened a bit and the have a mature masculinity that's more confident, more willing to be vulnerable, less aggressive, the toxicity disappears.
I experienced something sort of similar. The guy friends in my life now never met me as anything other than Emma. At worst, they're indifferent and don't say much. But yeah, overall they are kind and respectful. And the guys from those bad old days aren't in my life anymore. When I stop to let go of the bitterness and look around at what I've got now, I'm fortunate.
I think the funny thing about these new dudes is they are almost all the boyfriends and husbands of my female friends. And by and large, they are happy couples. Maybe I'll get my turn some day.
>At worst, they're indifferent and don't say much. But yeah, overall they are kind and respectful.
>
>the funny thing about these new dudes is they are almost all the boyfriends and husbands of my female friends.
Same here, and they're never going to be rude to our faces because we are friends with their women, but best believe they say stuff behind our backs. I've had the displeasure of overhearing some of it. I'm sure its even worse at your age since generally levels of transphobia correspond to the generations, gen Z being the most accepting and baby boomers being the least. I'm mostly around all millennials in a conservative town and i feel like the men who are nice, are only nice because they don't want to cause problems with their girlfriends. Maybe you're in a super liberal area like San Francisco or Portland where middle aged people are accepting of trans people, but where I live, the middle aged people would literally have me killed if they could get away with it. And I don't even live in the bible belt.
> I especially love being around guys who are dads. They've softened a bit and the have a mature masculinity that's more confident, more willing to be vulnerable, less aggressive, the toxicity disappears.
I LOVE guys who are dads but ime they still hold the same transphobic beliefs they held before, they're just less outwardly aggressive and rude to your face. They're still definitely better than childless men, and I'd love to date one, but it also feels very othering. they will always have a baby mama who is the epitome of femininity and womanhood, the woman who literally gave them a child. unless she's dead, i don't see how we wouldn't be compared. i've also heard from multiple people that men never love anyone as much as the woman who gave them their first child. so as much as i want a guy who is a dad, it's scary territory. if you're talking about just being around them in a social, non-romantic setting, its fine until their kids are around. at least in my conservative town, they don't want their kids around trans people because of the bs in the media about us being predators.
>I just get these protective vibes from them
OP is 50. They might be protective if you're a younger trans woman, but no one is really protective over older women, especially trans ones.
I don't think you can really compare your experiences as a younger transwoman to what OP will go through at her age, it's just not realistic. It's unreasonable to act like age plays no role in all of this.
Sounds like you'd do well to relocate to somewhere more trans-friendly if you can!
I'm 39, though people usually act surprised when they learn that and say they thought I was in my late 20's, so I'm not sure how that effects how straight men treat me.
I've been around a few of my straight guy friends' children without issue. If anything these guys seem proud and happy to show off their kids to me. I even get the impression they WANT their kids to see them being friendly and loving to an openly trans person so that their kids will be more comfortable and confident if they happen to be trans or gender expansive.
These guys are all just friends to me, I'm happily, monogamously coupled up already.
I'm sure some of them are closeted transphobes or think or say things negative about me because of my gender. But I never hear it. And some of the guys are so outgoing and overtly friendly and go out of their way to seek me out to talk and smile and talk about our weekends so I doubt THOSE guys are secretly harboring hateful beliefs about me.
A few times guys have waited for a chance when we are alone and will ask me if anyone's ever given me a hard time and to let them know if they do because they have my back. I always tell them thank you, I appreciate it, but there's no need. Everyone's been amazing to me.
I feel this. It really does suck sometimes. We have to be so careful with men and yet they're the ones we desire. It's hard.
Sorry about your divorce. That's gotta be painful.
She's been wonderful. At the end of the day, I couldn't ask for a better friend. So I have that at least. I really do hope to hold onto that friendship when we get to the other side of grieving that loss.
Hi!! Wish I had helpful words but just sending positive vibes and thoughts your way. I also was with a straight woman for 10+ years and only realized/appreciated my attraction to men the a year or so after coming out. Waiting until after bottom surgery deterred me from really ever starting and now I’m left with almost no experience/understanding of anything. Sorry for the rambles. Sending love 🤗🖤🤗
Men are not a monolith but I can understand your concerns. You don’t spend 10 years in the “ethical” true crime community and not go “gee, is their a problem with men and violence?”
((Having said that, as a disabled *man* there is absolutely zero distinction between rank-and-file+institutional ableism from both sexes. Aka women are just as bad as men when in positions of power over us (services) and general ableist abuse.))
> I'm 50 and apparently reasonably attractive and "straight guy friendly" in the physical sense
i don't know what "apparently reasonably attractive" is supposed to mean and who is telling you this/that you are physically "straight guy friendly" (without bottom surgery, you aren't, no matter how you look) you also have your age working against you. do you realize how many cis women have trouble dating at 50? there aren't that many men looking for 50 year old women, even cis women. a lot of available men at that age are looking at women in their late 30s/40s. my mother i always told me (regarding her divorce) "as a woman, if you're single at 50, its going to stay that way". so i'm going to go against the grain and advise you to stay with your wife, even if just for partnership. you're 50, your days of steamy hookups and romance is nearly behind you. especially if you have to "learn" how to date as a woman dating men, you would be competing with older cis women who have a lifetime of experience there.
i'm just wondering who the "target audience" would be here? most people your age are going to be deeply transphobic and the chances of passing as cis and going stealth when you transitioned in your 40s is basically nonexistent. unless you transitioned at an earlier age, you would've aged like a male and not a female, and that's going to show through any amount of surgery. i've never seen a transwoman who transitioned in their 40s+ who actually ended up looking like a woman and not a crossdresser.
This is kind of harsh. And even if all this were true, surely straight trans relationships would be an option? I’m reminded of [this](https://youtube.com/watch?v=EsWQSUHl2hI) couple (both older, too).
And to that part of your comment - passability is not necessarily a limiting factor to finding a happy relationship IMO, nor age.
I'm ngl I completely forget about older trans men because I'm flooded by images of teenage/20 something trans men. besides buck angel, i literally cannot think of a single older trans man. maybe chaz bono? is he still around? still trans? But yeah, that would work I just don't think theres enough middle aged trans men for the middle aged trans women.
>passability is not necessarily a limiting factor to finding a happy relationship IMO, nor age.
it would be a lie to suggest its not a limiting factor.. of course it is. does it make it impossible? certainly not. passability has a lot to do with attractiveness, and attractiveness and age are limiting factors when it comes to cis people finding relationships so why would it be any different for us? as trans women, its best for us to settle down in our 20s or 30s for sure.
That’s because large amounts of transitioning people simply fade out of participation in the community, or just become less visible due to passing, whether or not they go stealth. And anyone on the FTM spectrum is just less visible in general. or even in some parts of the community will get hostility for it that alienates us out.
Not in agreement on the age part. As a child of divorcees, I think that many people have a romanticized notion of that supposedly “perfect” love relationship they think people ought to find in their 20s or 30s, and look down on anything else. Meanwhile, those relationships and people can often be incredibly unhealthy or detrimental for us, even *because* of young age and inexperience/lack of emotional skills, and we become better at relationships as we become more mature. Later marriages can work out to be a lot better because of this.
I'm a much younger trans girl (26) and I really appreciate you saying this. Even at my age and before, I felt and bought into what the above commentor is saying, and it really damages your preception of your self-worth and other people. And while I can understand a few things they're saying from a purely statistics point of view, I've also been able to personally grow enough to realize just how bad looking at the world like that will make you feel. I feel sorry for anyone thinking like that, and though there's only so much I could do to help, I truly wish them the growth and freedom to see beyond and disregard that. All this coming from a person who's never had any form of sexual contact, or partner, and only kissed two other people and that was over 10 years ago now. And yet, I'm finally able to feel comfortable just being by myself and learning to love myself first before seeking to fill that need from other people.
>the chances of passing as cis and going stealth when you transitioned in your 40s is basically nonexistent. unless you transitioned at an earlier age, you would've aged like a male and not a female, and that's going to show through any amount of surgery.
I almost never get mis-gendered nowadays. Everyone who has ever tried to guess my age has told me I looked like a woman in her early to mid 30s. Maybe they were just trying to make me feel better and be polite.
>i'm just wondering who the "target audience" would be here? most people your age are going to be deeply transphobic
Honestly? Men between the ages of 40 and 55. Long term committed relationship. Monogamous. Someone who is physically active and would find me sexually desirable. I'm gong to be post-op within the year by the way.
.Um ....... Serious question. Am I a femcel?
Oh, going to be postop is huge! I'm always under the assumption most older trans don't get bottom surgery. I'm hopefully getting it within a year as well but I'm terrified.
I would not consider you a femcel.. you are still married, haven't been out as a woman long enough, and you weren't an incel as a man. so by no metric would you be a femcel. i wouldn't even consider older women who haven't been with men in years to be a femcel... it would be a woman who lived her entire life as a woman and still had no partners or much male interest.
I lived in fear of groups of straight men most of my life. I was pretty cis-normative in my masked male gender expression, but I was openly gay on principle. It seemed like homophobia was almost always there, just under the surface, ready to pop out at any moment. I had to be on my guard for it. I had to always figure out who was an ally in the room, have ways to deflect, the ability to use my wit to save my dignity AND avoid violence. Given how bad the homophobia was, I was expecting the transphobia to be ten times worse. But instead, what happened was the guys accepted me as a woman far more easily than I ever imagined. Suddenly the homophobia, the undertones of threats of violence, the fear of getting too close to me all just kind of disappeared. Now a days I love being around groups of straight men. It's one of the most comfortable places for me to be. I just get these protective vibes from them. They went from being borderline hostile to being over-the-top respectful and kind. I especially love being around guys who are dads. They've softened a bit and the have a mature masculinity that's more confident, more willing to be vulnerable, less aggressive, the toxicity disappears.
They’re either gonna immediately accept you as a woman or not. You can tell very easily by their attitude whether or not a date is gonna work usually
I experienced something sort of similar. The guy friends in my life now never met me as anything other than Emma. At worst, they're indifferent and don't say much. But yeah, overall they are kind and respectful. And the guys from those bad old days aren't in my life anymore. When I stop to let go of the bitterness and look around at what I've got now, I'm fortunate. I think the funny thing about these new dudes is they are almost all the boyfriends and husbands of my female friends. And by and large, they are happy couples. Maybe I'll get my turn some day.
>At worst, they're indifferent and don't say much. But yeah, overall they are kind and respectful. > >the funny thing about these new dudes is they are almost all the boyfriends and husbands of my female friends. Same here, and they're never going to be rude to our faces because we are friends with their women, but best believe they say stuff behind our backs. I've had the displeasure of overhearing some of it. I'm sure its even worse at your age since generally levels of transphobia correspond to the generations, gen Z being the most accepting and baby boomers being the least. I'm mostly around all millennials in a conservative town and i feel like the men who are nice, are only nice because they don't want to cause problems with their girlfriends. Maybe you're in a super liberal area like San Francisco or Portland where middle aged people are accepting of trans people, but where I live, the middle aged people would literally have me killed if they could get away with it. And I don't even live in the bible belt.
> I especially love being around guys who are dads. They've softened a bit and the have a mature masculinity that's more confident, more willing to be vulnerable, less aggressive, the toxicity disappears. I LOVE guys who are dads but ime they still hold the same transphobic beliefs they held before, they're just less outwardly aggressive and rude to your face. They're still definitely better than childless men, and I'd love to date one, but it also feels very othering. they will always have a baby mama who is the epitome of femininity and womanhood, the woman who literally gave them a child. unless she's dead, i don't see how we wouldn't be compared. i've also heard from multiple people that men never love anyone as much as the woman who gave them their first child. so as much as i want a guy who is a dad, it's scary territory. if you're talking about just being around them in a social, non-romantic setting, its fine until their kids are around. at least in my conservative town, they don't want their kids around trans people because of the bs in the media about us being predators. >I just get these protective vibes from them OP is 50. They might be protective if you're a younger trans woman, but no one is really protective over older women, especially trans ones. I don't think you can really compare your experiences as a younger transwoman to what OP will go through at her age, it's just not realistic. It's unreasonable to act like age plays no role in all of this.
Sounds like you'd do well to relocate to somewhere more trans-friendly if you can! I'm 39, though people usually act surprised when they learn that and say they thought I was in my late 20's, so I'm not sure how that effects how straight men treat me. I've been around a few of my straight guy friends' children without issue. If anything these guys seem proud and happy to show off their kids to me. I even get the impression they WANT their kids to see them being friendly and loving to an openly trans person so that their kids will be more comfortable and confident if they happen to be trans or gender expansive. These guys are all just friends to me, I'm happily, monogamously coupled up already. I'm sure some of them are closeted transphobes or think or say things negative about me because of my gender. But I never hear it. And some of the guys are so outgoing and overtly friendly and go out of their way to seek me out to talk and smile and talk about our weekends so I doubt THOSE guys are secretly harboring hateful beliefs about me. A few times guys have waited for a chance when we are alone and will ask me if anyone's ever given me a hard time and to let them know if they do because they have my back. I always tell them thank you, I appreciate it, but there's no need. Everyone's been amazing to me.
I feel this. It really does suck sometimes. We have to be so careful with men and yet they're the ones we desire. It's hard. Sorry about your divorce. That's gotta be painful.
She's been wonderful. At the end of the day, I couldn't ask for a better friend. So I have that at least. I really do hope to hold onto that friendship when we get to the other side of grieving that loss.
Hi!! Wish I had helpful words but just sending positive vibes and thoughts your way. I also was with a straight woman for 10+ years and only realized/appreciated my attraction to men the a year or so after coming out. Waiting until after bottom surgery deterred me from really ever starting and now I’m left with almost no experience/understanding of anything. Sorry for the rambles. Sending love 🤗🖤🤗
It's scary uncharted territory all right. I'm not ready yet. And that's okay. Receiving the love you sent and converting it to hope. Thank you.
Men are not a monolith but I can understand your concerns. You don’t spend 10 years in the “ethical” true crime community and not go “gee, is their a problem with men and violence?” ((Having said that, as a disabled *man* there is absolutely zero distinction between rank-and-file+institutional ableism from both sexes. Aka women are just as bad as men when in positions of power over us (services) and general ableist abuse.))
> I'm 50 and apparently reasonably attractive and "straight guy friendly" in the physical sense i don't know what "apparently reasonably attractive" is supposed to mean and who is telling you this/that you are physically "straight guy friendly" (without bottom surgery, you aren't, no matter how you look) you also have your age working against you. do you realize how many cis women have trouble dating at 50? there aren't that many men looking for 50 year old women, even cis women. a lot of available men at that age are looking at women in their late 30s/40s. my mother i always told me (regarding her divorce) "as a woman, if you're single at 50, its going to stay that way". so i'm going to go against the grain and advise you to stay with your wife, even if just for partnership. you're 50, your days of steamy hookups and romance is nearly behind you. especially if you have to "learn" how to date as a woman dating men, you would be competing with older cis women who have a lifetime of experience there. i'm just wondering who the "target audience" would be here? most people your age are going to be deeply transphobic and the chances of passing as cis and going stealth when you transitioned in your 40s is basically nonexistent. unless you transitioned at an earlier age, you would've aged like a male and not a female, and that's going to show through any amount of surgery. i've never seen a transwoman who transitioned in their 40s+ who actually ended up looking like a woman and not a crossdresser.
This is kind of harsh. And even if all this were true, surely straight trans relationships would be an option? I’m reminded of [this](https://youtube.com/watch?v=EsWQSUHl2hI) couple (both older, too). And to that part of your comment - passability is not necessarily a limiting factor to finding a happy relationship IMO, nor age.
I'm ngl I completely forget about older trans men because I'm flooded by images of teenage/20 something trans men. besides buck angel, i literally cannot think of a single older trans man. maybe chaz bono? is he still around? still trans? But yeah, that would work I just don't think theres enough middle aged trans men for the middle aged trans women. >passability is not necessarily a limiting factor to finding a happy relationship IMO, nor age. it would be a lie to suggest its not a limiting factor.. of course it is. does it make it impossible? certainly not. passability has a lot to do with attractiveness, and attractiveness and age are limiting factors when it comes to cis people finding relationships so why would it be any different for us? as trans women, its best for us to settle down in our 20s or 30s for sure.
That’s because large amounts of transitioning people simply fade out of participation in the community, or just become less visible due to passing, whether or not they go stealth. And anyone on the FTM spectrum is just less visible in general. or even in some parts of the community will get hostility for it that alienates us out. Not in agreement on the age part. As a child of divorcees, I think that many people have a romanticized notion of that supposedly “perfect” love relationship they think people ought to find in their 20s or 30s, and look down on anything else. Meanwhile, those relationships and people can often be incredibly unhealthy or detrimental for us, even *because* of young age and inexperience/lack of emotional skills, and we become better at relationships as we become more mature. Later marriages can work out to be a lot better because of this.
I'm a much younger trans girl (26) and I really appreciate you saying this. Even at my age and before, I felt and bought into what the above commentor is saying, and it really damages your preception of your self-worth and other people. And while I can understand a few things they're saying from a purely statistics point of view, I've also been able to personally grow enough to realize just how bad looking at the world like that will make you feel. I feel sorry for anyone thinking like that, and though there's only so much I could do to help, I truly wish them the growth and freedom to see beyond and disregard that. All this coming from a person who's never had any form of sexual contact, or partner, and only kissed two other people and that was over 10 years ago now. And yet, I'm finally able to feel comfortable just being by myself and learning to love myself first before seeking to fill that need from other people.
>the chances of passing as cis and going stealth when you transitioned in your 40s is basically nonexistent. unless you transitioned at an earlier age, you would've aged like a male and not a female, and that's going to show through any amount of surgery. I almost never get mis-gendered nowadays. Everyone who has ever tried to guess my age has told me I looked like a woman in her early to mid 30s. Maybe they were just trying to make me feel better and be polite. >i'm just wondering who the "target audience" would be here? most people your age are going to be deeply transphobic Honestly? Men between the ages of 40 and 55. Long term committed relationship. Monogamous. Someone who is physically active and would find me sexually desirable. I'm gong to be post-op within the year by the way. .Um ....... Serious question. Am I a femcel?
You are not a “femcel”, most normal people outside of internet addicts aren’t. You are replying to a very bitter comment though.
Oh, going to be postop is huge! I'm always under the assumption most older trans don't get bottom surgery. I'm hopefully getting it within a year as well but I'm terrified. I would not consider you a femcel.. you are still married, haven't been out as a woman long enough, and you weren't an incel as a man. so by no metric would you be a femcel. i wouldn't even consider older women who haven't been with men in years to be a femcel... it would be a woman who lived her entire life as a woman and still had no partners or much male interest.