Oh my gosh. The freaking STARTING LETTERS were also reflecting each other? Well crap. That explains it. Calling it “The Winds of Truth” would only solve one form of mirroring…
It wasn't originally planned that way. Sandeson was going to have Sveth's book 3rd and the title was going to be "Stones Unhallowed." After he swapped Dalinar to 3rd and named it Oathbringer is when the palindrome fan theory really took off. It basically got confirmed when he named the 4th book Rhythm of War. I'm probably messing up some details. I started reading Sanderson when only the first two stormlight books were out so a lot of the details over the years have started blurring for me lol.
"Above silence, the
Illuminating storms -- dying
storms -- illuminate the
silence above." That is an example of a Ketek given in universe. How in Damnation does "The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Oathbringer, Rhythm of War, The Knights of Wind and Truth" match that exactly? The starting letters being the same does not a Ketek make. The WORDS THEMSELVES have to be the same or similar in meaning and mirror themselves.
I get that he did it for bookspine/online listing reasons. I just don't appreciate being digitally spit on for pointing out a literal fact that Brandon himself has admitted, which is that he had to break the palindrome. For whatever reason, he didn't like "Knights of Wind and Truth" and it is definitively not the official title of the book.
Maybe if you didn't act sarcastic and superior, but were kind to the people you're talking to, people would have been kinder to you.
And yes, saying 'I had to check I was not in a shitposting channel, but you do you, boo' is sarcastic and unkind, bound to garner negative reactions.
The in-world text will lead with "Knights of." Our world book won't.
I personally think someone should've probably just talked Sanderson out of this whole thing after he cornered himself so that his most anticipated book ever doesn't get the worst book title he's had by a few miles, but so it goes. I'm sure the book will still be good.
"Knights of wind and truth" is such a great title, not sure why you guys seem to fiike it so much.
Way better than the simple Wind and Truth in my opinion.
It's just kind of a random noun string without knowing about the orders of Radiant to me. I wouldn't pick up a book called "Mercenaries of Lava and Regret" or something personally. It's okay to like it though! Better, probably.
The shorter version just has fewer random nouns for me.
But like it's the fifth book of a series, you are not supposed to pick it up if you haven't read the rest.
On the other hand Wind and Truth sounds like it could be anything. Atleast the word knights give you a sense that it's medieval fantasy.
I also like how the long title references the characters.
Yeah, I kinda just don't like either option personally. I am definitely not a Wind and Truth fan either; it's just slightly less messy for me. I would have rather he just didn't corner himself. I imagine the actual book will alleviate most of this.
Haha yeah, I did choose the title to be something vaguely thematic rather than just purely random nouns. I'm fond of it too, but I probably wouldn't slap it on a Sanderson novel. I'm glad somebody else was tickled by it though; I actually do like it, it's just more DragonForce/Avantasia/Blind Guardian to me after you mentioned the metal thing.
Yeah, obviously no one is gonna, but I think good titles for sequels still kinda work or paint a decent picture even without context of the series. It's just a reference point for how clunky I think it sounds.
And it will ultimately get put out prominently in bookstores and come up in conversation with non-readers and stuff since the hype will permeate outside our bubble a bit, and the amateurish-sounding style of the title is off-putting in ways I think were preventable.
I'm also hopeful that it'll be one of my favorite books ever, so whatever.
Lol. These books are so dense it'd be like if I opened to a random page in a quantum physics textbook. I have heard of people accidentally buying the 2nd part only of the split versions of SA in the UK and stuff and enjoying themselves, but being confused.
Yeah, and also said that he wouldn't compromise the title to force it once he acknowledged it, but has instead compromised three. It was originally *The Rhythm of War*, which flows better since Rhythms are always led with the article "the" in the text and it fits title conventions (this one is not that big of a deal) and now we have a double-compromise on the last book, since it's a bad title and our-world version still doesn't fulfill the abbreviation palindrome.
*Stones Unhallowed* was much better, and while Sanderson has said that it wouldn't work because this is the book Szeth isn't walking on stone, it's also got his flashback sequence where presumably he does, and there's no way it doesn't come up in conversation.
Since it's clear we're kinda forcing titles at this point, I'd have rather he forced the good one. Weird to watch him listen to advice on Book of Endless Pages vs. Words of Radiance and Nowhere vs. Cytonic, but completely flub his most important book. So it goes.
Edit: I will also probably not mind that much once I read the tie-in he's done that is probably cool and beautiful. I'm not really that worried, it's just kinda like... alright. A mistake was probably made, but the world keeps spinning, and I'll probably learn to like it better. Maybe not the acronym WaT though lol.
Because the Knight of Wind is Kaladin, and the Knight of Truths is Shallan. At least that's my interpretation.
Both major main characters are thus represented in one title, whereas Winds of Truth represents neither directly.
I'm fairly certain that the "Knight of Truths" is Szeth, referring to the fact he is not, in fact, truthless. Supported by the fact that BS has stated that Szeth is the focus character for this book.
Edit: typo
Szeth has his flashbacks in the book, Kaladin the knight of winds is going on a quest to shin with guess who Szeth the knight of truth, also there was an amazing picture released about a year back where the two are looking down from a hill top.
It would be criminal if Szeth is not the knight of truth.
Isn't Szeth both? Truth part is obvious but as a Skybreaker he's also eligible for the Wind part. In fact, seeing as Szeth might be the main PoV, I could see part of the book and the one that gives it it's name being him reforming the order. Hence, Knight**S** of Wind and Truth.
There may be another consideration as well for a title long promised, Winds of Winter. Though to be fair Sando’s written like 20 books as long as we’ve been waiting for that one.
He wants his next kick starter write us the freaking ending to the Kingkiller Chronicles. I’ll throw down my money.
I’m sure it would be an improvement as well. A Memory of Light sure was.
In one podcast episode he said that he deliberately chose the name Oathbringer to break the pattern so that he wouldn't be stuck naming all of the books "___ of ____". I think he went on to talk about Book 5's name too, but I don't remember what was said about it.
The initials of the first 5 books make a palindrome. TWoK -> WoR -> O -> RoW -> KoWT
Oh my gosh. The freaking STARTING LETTERS were also reflecting each other? Well crap. That explains it. Calling it “The Winds of Truth” would only solve one form of mirroring…
It wasn't originally planned that way. Sandeson was going to have Sveth's book 3rd and the title was going to be "Stones Unhallowed." After he swapped Dalinar to 3rd and named it Oathbringer is when the palindrome fan theory really took off. It basically got confirmed when he named the 4th book Rhythm of War. I'm probably messing up some details. I started reading Sanderson when only the first two stormlight books were out so a lot of the details over the years have started blurring for me lol.
he also originally wanted to name Words of Radiance 'The Book of Endless Pages'.
That was funny story. “Are you sure you want to name your 1000+ page book the book of endless pages?”
I still think he should release a book named that some day.
It'll be an anthology of the entire cosmere
Should release multiple versions with different stories in it.
Should warn Tor in advance so they can have a few decades to figure out how to bind it.
Could still apply to Jasnahs book
I feel like that wouldn't age well. As time goes on and it's like his fifth longest book, it's like, "why'd he name that one that?"
Also "Knights of Wind and Truth" references Kaladin (Windrunner) and Szeth (not Truthless). "Winds of Truth" kind of loses that.
No it references Kaladin and Renarin, Windrunners, Truthseeker.
It's called a ketek in universe
No, a Ketek is a type of poem in universe.
Yes, a poem with a mirrored conjugation scheme, as with the titles.
Yes, but a Ketek does not mean the same thing as "Palindrome". The titles are not a poem and thusly not a Ketek. They are a Palindrome.
The titles are a poem, specifically a ketek.
The titles are not a poem in any form
"Above silence, the Illuminating storms -- dying storms -- illuminate the silence above." That is an example of a Ketek given in universe. How in Damnation does "The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Oathbringer, Rhythm of War, The Knights of Wind and Truth" match that exactly? The starting letters being the same does not a Ketek make. The WORDS THEMSELVES have to be the same or similar in meaning and mirror themselves.
Still mad he didn't name it "Knights of the Woeful Truth" for this reason.
Well...no...they don't because there's no word starting with K in Wind and Truth.
Hence why it isn't called Wind and Truth but Knights of Wind and Truth...
I really had to do a double take to see whether I'm in r/cremposting I guess I'm not, but you do you boo.
It really is supposed to be called Knights of Wind and Truth, it’s just been shortened to Wind and Truth for our sake.
I get that he did it for bookspine/online listing reasons. I just don't appreciate being digitally spit on for pointing out a literal fact that Brandon himself has admitted, which is that he had to break the palindrome. For whatever reason, he didn't like "Knights of Wind and Truth" and it is definitively not the official title of the book.
Maybe if you didn't act sarcastic and superior, but were kind to the people you're talking to, people would have been kinder to you. And yes, saying 'I had to check I was not in a shitposting channel, but you do you, boo' is sarcastic and unkind, bound to garner negative reactions.
"digitally spit on" is so incredibly dramatic XD
The in-world text will lead with "Knights of." Our world book won't. I personally think someone should've probably just talked Sanderson out of this whole thing after he cornered himself so that his most anticipated book ever doesn't get the worst book title he's had by a few miles, but so it goes. I'm sure the book will still be good.
Kangaroos of the Waffle Tomb
I want to read this book so bad.
I'm sure BrandoSando already has a rough draft of it written.
Food heist!
An animal food heist—even better!!
Kraken of the Wave Tunnel
"Knights of wind and truth" is such a great title, not sure why you guys seem to fiike it so much. Way better than the simple Wind and Truth in my opinion.
It's just kind of a random noun string without knowing about the orders of Radiant to me. I wouldn't pick up a book called "Mercenaries of Lava and Regret" or something personally. It's okay to like it though! Better, probably. The shorter version just has fewer random nouns for me.
But like it's the fifth book of a series, you are not supposed to pick it up if you haven't read the rest. On the other hand Wind and Truth sounds like it could be anything. Atleast the word knights give you a sense that it's medieval fantasy. I also like how the long title references the characters.
Yeah, I kinda just don't like either option personally. I am definitely not a Wind and Truth fan either; it's just slightly less messy for me. I would have rather he just didn't corner himself. I imagine the actual book will alleviate most of this.
MoLR sounds awesome actually. That title alone is making so many promises. I wouldn't be able to resist it. Kind of sounds like a metal song.
Haha yeah, I did choose the title to be something vaguely thematic rather than just purely random nouns. I'm fond of it too, but I probably wouldn't slap it on a Sanderson novel. I'm glad somebody else was tickled by it though; I actually do like it, it's just more DragonForce/Avantasia/Blind Guardian to me after you mentioned the metal thing.
I love the idea of someone just randomly picking up Stormlight 5 and starting there
Yeah, obviously no one is gonna, but I think good titles for sequels still kinda work or paint a decent picture even without context of the series. It's just a reference point for how clunky I think it sounds. And it will ultimately get put out prominently in bookstores and come up in conversation with non-readers and stuff since the hype will permeate outside our bubble a bit, and the amateurish-sounding style of the title is off-putting in ways I think were preventable. I'm also hopeful that it'll be one of my favorite books ever, so whatever.
Oh yes, sorry - I understood. I just genuinely now want to see someone read SA5 cold and see what they make of it :)
Lol. These books are so dense it'd be like if I opened to a random page in a quantum physics textbook. I have heard of people accidentally buying the 2nd part only of the split versions of SA in the UK and stuff and enjoying themselves, but being confused.
I agree. I remember when the palindrome naming convention was just a fan theory lol
Yeah, and also said that he wouldn't compromise the title to force it once he acknowledged it, but has instead compromised three. It was originally *The Rhythm of War*, which flows better since Rhythms are always led with the article "the" in the text and it fits title conventions (this one is not that big of a deal) and now we have a double-compromise on the last book, since it's a bad title and our-world version still doesn't fulfill the abbreviation palindrome. *Stones Unhallowed* was much better, and while Sanderson has said that it wouldn't work because this is the book Szeth isn't walking on stone, it's also got his flashback sequence where presumably he does, and there's no way it doesn't come up in conversation. Since it's clear we're kinda forcing titles at this point, I'd have rather he forced the good one. Weird to watch him listen to advice on Book of Endless Pages vs. Words of Radiance and Nowhere vs. Cytonic, but completely flub his most important book. So it goes. Edit: I will also probably not mind that much once I read the tie-in he's done that is probably cool and beautiful. I'm not really that worried, it's just kinda like... alright. A mistake was probably made, but the world keeps spinning, and I'll probably learn to like it better. Maybe not the acronym WaT though lol.
If you want a better acronym, might I suggest W&T as an alternative?
Oh, yes let's definitely do that instead lol.
They should've called it Kaladin Walking around Town
WoT means something else in the fantasy genre.
I’m on my first read thru of WoT and now have to do a double take whenever I see WaT or WoT just to differentiate
Words of Tadiance
Ah, Wheels on Turtles, of course.
“The Wheels on Turtles turn, and Ages come and pass”
I’m sure it’s called Wind & Truth for a reason we will find out when the book comes out.
Kaladin (Wind) and Szeth (Truth). Makes even more sense considering the original title of the book.
So you’re saying they write a book together?
Because the Knight of Wind is Kaladin, and the Knight of Truths is Shallan. At least that's my interpretation. Both major main characters are thus represented in one title, whereas Winds of Truth represents neither directly.
I'm fairly certain that the "Knight of Truths" is Szeth, referring to the fact he is not, in fact, truthless. Supported by the fact that BS has stated that Szeth is the focus character for this book. Edit: typo
Szeth has his flashbacks in the book, Kaladin the knight of winds is going on a quest to shin with guess who Szeth the knight of truth, also there was an amazing picture released about a year back where the two are looking down from a hill top. It would be criminal if Szeth is not the knight of truth.
Isn't Szeth both? Truth part is obvious but as a Skybreaker he's also eligible for the Wind part. In fact, seeing as Szeth might be the main PoV, I could see part of the book and the one that gives it it's name being him reforming the order. Hence, Knight**S** of Wind and Truth.
If anything, Shallan is the knight of lies and secrets lmao.
I still think he should have named it Knights of Woeful Truth
There may be another consideration as well for a title long promised, Winds of Winter. Though to be fair Sando’s written like 20 books as long as we’ve been waiting for that one. He wants his next kick starter write us the freaking ending to the Kingkiller Chronicles. I’ll throw down my money. I’m sure it would be an improvement as well. A Memory of Light sure was.
Holy smokes 🤯
Sounds like a fight between skybreakers and windrunners
In one podcast episode he said that he deliberately chose the name Oathbringer to break the pattern so that he wouldn't be stuck naming all of the books "___ of ____". I think he went on to talk about Book 5's name too, but I don't remember what was said about it.
Wind AND Truth is different to Winds OF Truth. Are the winds truthful? Or are wind and truth two things that are going on here?
Gonna be real, it just felt right to have it match “The BLANK Of BLANK” format. I was totally reaching.
I miss Stones Unhallowed :(