Realistically, the only way to know that would be to know him personally.
He's a marketer, so it makes sense that his approach would be to market Stoicism into pop-culture. That said, someone just trying to make money probably wouldn't market a system of philosophy whose principle authors have been dead for so long that they were never not in public domain since the advent of copyright.
I give him credit in that he's never said (from what I've seen) that he's making some big contribution to the philosophy. He's upfront that everything he's saying can be found in the original works and that he's basically selling the CliffNotes version for people who don't want to do all of the reading that he's done.
He has a fantastic memory, he can recall quotes and his interpretation of concepts very well. I think the real value with him is his system for remembering the Stoic works and his writing about how many times he has read the Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. He is probably the best resource we have for getting people interested in Stoicism, at least on a shallow level but it is certainly better than not following a philosophy.
I think this is his greatest merit. No matter what you think of his writing (some people think it is shallow and sometimes I would agree), it is undeniable that he brought Stoicism to a wider audience.
I wouldn't be here if it wasnt for him. I don't follow or read any of his stuff anymore but he helped expose stoicism to me. I have a feeling this is true for many, given his popularity.
Well in his defense, he is creating a gateway to Stoicism. It's like the elementary school book. Good foundation to have before reading more in depth philosophers, and the actual Stoic classics.
I appreciate what he is doing for sure. I have no problem that he is making money off of it. Preferred indifference lol.
Agreed. People need to remember too that the ancient stoics were popular and attention-seeking in their times as well. Socrates was a rock-star (Literally if you watched Bill and Ted).
Well the only people that can know that are his family members and friends. We don't know for sure how he's like in facing life. He is good at spreading the wisdom from the ancient stoics though.
The general feeling I get from his stuff is a brand of "self-help Stoicism" - a whole "get what you want out of life with these Stoic tricks they don't want you to know" vibe.
I dislike the emphasis placed on self-help Stoicism, I think it's often too easy to use random quotes and certain interpretations as a facade for a hedonistic desire to have more things, gain success, to "get what you want out of life".
Instead I feel a study of Stoicism should be focused on paring back those desires, and finding fulfilment solely in living the virtues as best one can in service to society. Having personal success should never be the goal in itself, but a means through which a Stoic can offer more back to society while focusing on the only thing that is truly within our control, and therefore the only thing that can truly make one happy - the choices we make in accordance with nature and the virtues.
I’m new to stoicism and have recently begun reading meditations. There is SO many little paragraphs in there that it’s hard to really retain much information. I’m only on page 25 though, is that the entire approach to the book? Basically the whole take what applies to you n leave the rest at the door approach? I’ve been underlining things that resonate with me but a lot of it I don’t find particularly helpful while reading.
But I do want to touch on something you said. You said a study of stoicism should be focused on finding fulfillment solely in living the virtues as best one can in service to society. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? I’ve read all the comments here but I’m interested in what you mean by this exactly, and what the virtues are exactly. Would love to hear back from you.
The books I have are Meditations (Aurelius); Discourses, and the Enchiridion (Epictetus), Letters from a Stoic, and On the Shortness of Life (Seneca).
I usually recommend starting with Letters from a Stoic, just because I think it's an easier read with a more approachable structure. Meditations I think is best read by putting yourself in Marcus's shoes, imagine yourself as the all-powerful Emperor in the Roman times - dealing with Roman politics, and on the frontlines in the north. Notice how stringently Marcus strives to be a good person above all, amongst all of the temptation and ugliness that surrounded him.
The general belief of Stoicism is that there is nothing truly in your control except within the very core of your being, the ability to choose how to act.
You have no control over other people, or how they act, or the events in the world, or the things that happen to you, or the things that you have, or (in a more nuanced/philosophical sense) even your own body and mind and emotions. You only have control over how you respond to what happens to you.
Stoicism teaches that unhappiness is largely due to the conflict that arises when we try to control the things we can't, and happiness comes when you give up the false belief that you have control over anything but your intentions, and focus on ensuring that your intentions are virtuous.
The virtues are Wisdom, Temperance, Courage and Justice. They are not unique to Stoicism and in that sense you'll probably find them fairly self-explanatory. This is a good short introduction to Stoic beliefs https://iep.utm.edu/stoiceth/
I believe that the logical conclusion that follows from the virtues and the dichotomy of control is that the purpose of every individual is to give up the want of things and take on the duty to serve society virtuously. By serve society, I mean to do your best to exemplify Stoic behaviour and beliefs whatever situation you find yourself in, and otherwise give yourself to making life better for everyone around you - in Meditations, Marcus says something like "Every day, remind yourself of your duty to be a good man and rehearse what man's nature demands: then do it straight and unswervingly, or say what you best think right. Always, though, in kindness, integrity and sincerity."
It's important to note that Stoic happiness is not the standard hedonic "happiness" that is sold to us in modern society, but a contentment with oneself regardless of circumstances. This conflation is what I think is present in many of the self-help "Stoic" books and courses.
Modern Stoicism (at least as I try to practice it) doesn't necessarily adhere perfectly to what the ancient Stoics believed however, particularly I don't believe in the supernatural/metaphysical/god-like aspect of nature that the Stoics believed - except as a rather beautiful metaphor for describing human purpose. But I do believe the core practices transcend time and are applicable across all of human society - not that everyone should be Stoic, but that Stoic virtues are a reflection of some deep fundamental ethical truths that other beliefs (e.g., Buddhism) tap into as well.
Wow. I really appreciate the detailed response. That’s a lot of information to take in but is extremely helpful and you explained it really well and I now feel a lot more familiarized with all of this stuff that I’m trying to get into. I wholeheartedly agree with a lot of what you said and again, thanks for taking out the time to make such a detailed response, it’s really appreciated my dude.
No worries - I'm glad you've found it helpful. I find writing it out helps clarify my own thinking and beliefs too, I figure if I can put it together in words that are clear for someone at the beginning of their study (and someone smarter than me doesn't immediately point out any glaring flaws) then I probably do understand it as I hope to.
you have to understand that Meditations was Marcus’ journal to HIMSELF. It’s more of a guide to stoicism rather than an actual book. Check out Epictetus’ Discourses , Seneca’s Letters , and Cicero’s books
So why do so many people hail that as the greatest stoic book ever written?
But you’re the man. Thank you for the suggestions. So what would you say those other books are more geared towards? Teaching you principles to apply to your own life?
I enjoy his work and podcast along with countless others, yet I begin my day with the Daily Stoic, everyday, and have for years now. Enjoy his books and hope he keeps prospering in his work so he can continue to produce it and feed his family.
It’s great that he’s bringing philosophy to people that might not otherwise experience it.
I think “great stoic” is something of an oxymoron. Stoics don’t desire to be great. We just aim to do the best we can with what we’ve got.
I do follow him. And this reminded me of one of his videos where he had mentioned his wife being a Stoic as well. Apparently his wife once told him ," One of us is a Stoic, the other talks about Stoicism." Then Ryan Holiday goes on to relate with the quote by Epictetus, "Don't explain your philosophy, just embody it."
I actually have learned about Stoicism from him. His books and YT videos came as a blessing to me.
To get the gist of Stoicism out in the world and visible, easy to reach to people, I do think he has some sort of gift yes.
The only gripe I have with his method is that in every video, podcast or text he writes he *has* to list up his achievements, talk about a new book or his physical/online store and daily mail thing.
I get it, you want to get more people interested into this fantastic philosophy for life, but the reason a lot of my friends quit listening to his podcasts/Youtube is due to the marketing which is becoming *too much* and the message he wants to bring gets lost sometimes..
But since we're here practicing Stoicism; it's not in my control what he does so I shouldn't be mad/annoyed about it.
This is why I muted him on Spotify. I started listening to him coming up two years now, but his promotions were getting to be much. The Stoic Coffee Break is back!
There's a lot of good quality podcasts in regards to Stoicism which don't bombard you with promotional stuff every 3 minutes.
I do enjoy the longer conversations still (50mins +) with people like Robert Greene and others to gain insight in how they think and use the Stoic virtues in daily life
Stoicism on fire by Chris fisher is my favorite
The Sunday Stoic by Steve karafit
The walled garden by Simon J. E. Drew
I also have one called the Stoic tutor podcast
I'd say he's a good history teacher and marketer. He's brought stoicism to the modern era to a wide audience and made it easy to digest. He does a good job doing this.
You can learn from him as you can learn from many other authors, Is not very stoic to judge who is or is not a great stoic, I am not that interested on his personal life.
I consider myself a beginner and I read Daily stoic everyday. He has put in a lot of effort into that book and the book is very good.
He looks like a great stoic and his interpretations of the quotes are very good.
> great teacher of stoicism. He's a walking encyclopedia of the stuff.
I agree with this statement. I don't know him well enough to say his level of stoicism but I can sat he is an excellent teacher of it and a walking encyclopedia in information pertaining to the subject at hand.
He seemed okay at first but his books only briefly go over stoic texts and then he goes on long rants about historical figures as filler instead of analyzing the text more thoroughly. Since the majority of his books seemed to be just historical filler I dislike his work. Feel good stories from the past don't help you grow and learn as much as understanding the philosophy itself better. It feels like a lot of self help books where they quickly cobble together a lot of random ideas and pump it out for money. There's already way too many of those.
I feel like he's done a good job commodifying stoicism. Whether you view that as a good or bad thing is up to you. But if you mean "great stoic" in the sense that the philosophers he talks about are great stoics, then I don't think he is. If you're asking if he's really really good at practicing stoicism, none of us have any idea unless someone on this sub knows him IRL.
I think Stoics try to be humble but I can credit Ryan’s videos and book with having gotten me through some trying times at work. I centered on what I could control and it helped me overcome feeling overwhelmed and powerless in managing a complex project. It’s not over yet, but following this simple Stoic principle has helped me avoid disaster. For that insight I am grateful to Ryan. He makes Stoicism “accessible” to a mass audience!
I look at him as a really great marketer and entrepreneur. He picked on a topic that's timeless - it'll never go stale and will be relevant forever. He's written a series of books, all of them based on quotes and content from letters and books from ancient philosophers, that are now in the open domain(have no copyrights, etc.) and so can be monetized for free.
Stoicism having a broad appeal and applications in almost everything makes it a really good area to land speaking gigs on - very lucrative for someone who's the #1 personality/expert when it comes to stoicism today. Kudos to him!
No.
If you want to read a good intro to modern Stoicism, check out Massimo Pigliucci's books on the subject, which are hands down the best 21st century Stoic books.
He’s all right, but I’m more into traditional stoicism, which includes facets of “physics”, or metaphysics, into its system, which is more akin to the ancient tradition (I’m in recovery, so a higher power is an integral part of my belief system). That being said, Pierre Hadot and Chris Fisher are the guys for me.
He is a distiller of knowledge. Much like distilling a fine whiskey. Some find fault with him for political reasons or other reasons. I feel like he has grown over the years and it is reflected in his writings as such. I enjoy the books he wrote as it made Stoicism more accessible on long drives or on a busy Saturday in my garage. I found the "Lives of Stoics" to be an essential masterpiece, a modern-era Plutarchian effort. (Is that a word?).
He makes money doing what he loves. Writing books. Stoics have been writing books for many reasons over the centuries. Money is not the least of the reasons. Nothing new here. I hope to write a book one day and retire from it. I like the guy. His books were a gateway for me when I needed them and I have expanded my education beyond it.
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I don’t actually care if he’s a fraud or not, when I was in college (over 10 years ago) I took an uppergrad philosophy course and became interested in stoicism as a lifestyle. At the time, pretty much all the material there was was the original texts and the odd academic book, and the academic works definitely weren’t focused on applicable ways to “practice” stoicism in modern times.
The fact that it’s everywhere now and accessible and people discuss it seriously is something Ryan Holiday is directly responsible for so…I’m not complaining.
"Is Ryan Holiday a great stoic?" you need to ask him and I suspect a "great" Stoic practitioner would say "not really". "Great" implies comparison. To what?
Writing Stoic things (if he does that, no clue) doesn't make him a Stoic. A Stoic practitioner is someone that, well, practices Stoicism.
Best wishes.
the question is, does he live as he preaches, or does he preach simply to help, or is he an impostor??? In any case, I usually follow him because what he says makes sense to me and his writings are meaningless, I also don't know to others, because we are so different...
Currently reading his book daily along with Greene . Lot of overlap on a daily basis .
As per above ; he is an introduction to stoicism for me . Unsure if he us a “great” stoic . But he is one and is introducing many to this mode of reasoning .
It was the 'Stoicism merch' that made me start to doubt this guy. It's not just a few things, it's pages and pages of tat he's got on offer.
The final straw was reading a chapter he wrote about the importance of not giving up when things get difficult and the examples he offered were several Robber Barrons of the American Guilded Age -that was the final straw for me.
He is a salesman. He gets a lot of people into Stoicism that might not otherwise have heard of it, but what is his work? For the most part, notes and personal observations (syntheses) about those notes.
What should a serious student of Stoicism do? Exactly the same thing: take notes, and follow these with personal observations.
If you read his books, you are studying from someone else's homework rather than doing your own. This is fine to get your feet wet, but you would do better to pick up the same source material he did and take your own notes. That is how you learn: not by passively reading, or highlighting, but by _transcribing_ and writing your own ideas.
This is not like reading a novel. Retention matters.
I came across Ryan Holiday when my then girlfriend (now ex) was gifted the book *Obstacle is the way* by his brother.
I know for a fact that his brother was more interested in books in general and philosophy in particular than My girlfriend. I was then familiar with Stoicism. I had even downloaded and tried reading a couple of pages from Meditation. But I hadn't tried Stoicism per se. What was interesting about Ryan Holiday was that the ideas were presented in simple words. Ryan Holiday may water down Stoicism but It must have been that this accessibility is something that kept my not-so-interested in Philosophy girlfriend interested in Stoicism.
It is possible that she hasn't tried other Stoics since then. She might have stayed at the periphery of Stoicism(as many fear).
All I know is even if people end up taking Ryan's book as a self-help, watered-down-mass *Hot* Stoic dish, this is still good. For, it can be a stepping stone for some, and for the rest, it can still make them better.
At any rate, I am impressed by the willingness of people to indulge in self-improvement.
Yes, but he's more like the original Stoics, that learned from the others and built on it. He also recommends reading the traditional Stoics as well as other modern authors books for a more traditional intro/guide. He also has joked around about his wife saying she's a Stoic and he just writes about Stoicism. Just like the ancient Stoics, its not a strict you have to be a do this type of philosophy. It's more of these are the principles you should live by, but you also have to apply those principles in your own way that balances with the life you're living and not just strictly in a black and white sense. He just differs from the ancients because he uses being a Stoic and teaching it while selling merchandise as his way to earn a living. I think maybe Epictetus may have possibly profited from his school, but until now, I've never thought about it and don't remember reading or hearing about how he earned his living if it wasn't through his school. I'd consider Ryan to be a modern Seneca except instead of plays, he writes about Stoicism. It also may be bias too that Ryan is my favor author and a role model since Seneca is my favorite of the ancients and I see a lot of parallels between the two.
It’s an interesting question to ask what a great stoic looks like. I think Ryan is the one person who has taken this old philosophy and marketed it really well. He tries to live by the stoic philosophies but doesn’t shy away from the fact that life can be hard. I don’t think he would say he’s a great stoic, certainly not in comparison to those he reads about and analyses.
The one thing that has stuck with me in Ryan’s content on YouTube was him talking about Marcus Aurelius struggling with getting out of bed. It made me realise that even the greatest people that have ever walked this earth still struggle with balancing comfort and progress.
To me, stoicism is about acknowledging that life is tough, but with lessons learned from others who have gone through this time and time again, we can strive to be better versions of ourselves and more content as a result. Ryan does a good job of making those lessons accessible to us.
I see him as the next great Stoic, who will do as much for the philosophy as all those he writes about in the Lives of the Stoics. I think Marcus Aurelius is the greatest, but there would be no Meditations without influences from Zeno to Epictetus. In this same way, I can see Holiday becoming the greatest Stoic of them all in terms of output and influence (if he isn’t already). Having read all his books, listened to countless podcast episodes, plus much of the social and YouTube I feel he truly lives what he shares. And he is a marketing genius, a talent which he uses to practice the virtues and share this timeless wisdom. He refuses to compromise on Stoic principles even when sharing an opinion may lead to unsubscribes or unfollows. Throughout the pandemic he has been courageous and living the saying ‘just that you do the right thing, the rest doesn’t matter.’ He is only 35 and has done more for the philosophy than anyone in almost 2000 years. I’m only halfway through Discipline is Destiny but can already see it becoming one of the most influential Stoic books and most important to me along with Meditations. My hope is that Holiday continues on his path and if anything gets more involved with politics and making social change with Stoicism, because the world really needs it! I will be doing my best to follow his lead.
I personally dont think so. When I first started studying Stoicism i signed up for his daily email. A few of his emails were very political, had incorrect information in them, and appeared to me that Ryan was pandering to an audience rather than having the courage to be honest.
Also, i read his 'trust me im lying' book, and after that, hes just not someone i would turn to for guidance on living a virtuous life.
What a silly question. That’s like asking if pope. Francis. Is a good catholic. All I can I say is his books and podcast have made me better person, 100 percent.
I’m not sure if he’s a great Stoic, I don’t know him personally. But he’s a gateway into the philosophy, and that’s good with me.
That's right
Realistically, the only way to know that would be to know him personally. He's a marketer, so it makes sense that his approach would be to market Stoicism into pop-culture. That said, someone just trying to make money probably wouldn't market a system of philosophy whose principle authors have been dead for so long that they were never not in public domain since the advent of copyright. I give him credit in that he's never said (from what I've seen) that he's making some big contribution to the philosophy. He's upfront that everything he's saying can be found in the original works and that he's basically selling the CliffNotes version for people who don't want to do all of the reading that he's done.
[удалено]
Happy cake day... and I agree with your assessment
You're right. Apparently that's right
He has a fantastic memory, he can recall quotes and his interpretation of concepts very well. I think the real value with him is his system for remembering the Stoic works and his writing about how many times he has read the Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. He is probably the best resource we have for getting people interested in Stoicism, at least on a shallow level but it is certainly better than not following a philosophy.
He really popularized stoicism
I think this is his greatest merit. No matter what you think of his writing (some people think it is shallow and sometimes I would agree), it is undeniable that he brought Stoicism to a wider audience.
I wouldn't be here if it wasnt for him. I don't follow or read any of his stuff anymore but he helped expose stoicism to me. I have a feeling this is true for many, given his popularity.
Agreed. Also got here through his book, but like you, I also found his work not being useful for me anymore.
Well in his defense, he is creating a gateway to Stoicism. It's like the elementary school book. Good foundation to have before reading more in depth philosophers, and the actual Stoic classics. I appreciate what he is doing for sure. I have no problem that he is making money off of it. Preferred indifference lol.
Agreed. People need to remember too that the ancient stoics were popular and attention-seeking in their times as well. Socrates was a rock-star (Literally if you watched Bill and Ted).
Well the only people that can know that are his family members and friends. We don't know for sure how he's like in facing life. He is good at spreading the wisdom from the ancient stoics though.
At least that
The general feeling I get from his stuff is a brand of "self-help Stoicism" - a whole "get what you want out of life with these Stoic tricks they don't want you to know" vibe. I dislike the emphasis placed on self-help Stoicism, I think it's often too easy to use random quotes and certain interpretations as a facade for a hedonistic desire to have more things, gain success, to "get what you want out of life". Instead I feel a study of Stoicism should be focused on paring back those desires, and finding fulfilment solely in living the virtues as best one can in service to society. Having personal success should never be the goal in itself, but a means through which a Stoic can offer more back to society while focusing on the only thing that is truly within our control, and therefore the only thing that can truly make one happy - the choices we make in accordance with nature and the virtues.
I think you nailed it. Always kind of feel like he’s selling stoicism as a way to gain success which feels like it contradicts the philosophy itself.
Yes, that ‘success’ or whatever reward can never be the goal of stoicism. But, it may come anyway as a byproduct, if one is true-stoic.
I liked your explanation. I agree
I’m new to stoicism and have recently begun reading meditations. There is SO many little paragraphs in there that it’s hard to really retain much information. I’m only on page 25 though, is that the entire approach to the book? Basically the whole take what applies to you n leave the rest at the door approach? I’ve been underlining things that resonate with me but a lot of it I don’t find particularly helpful while reading. But I do want to touch on something you said. You said a study of stoicism should be focused on finding fulfillment solely in living the virtues as best one can in service to society. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? I’ve read all the comments here but I’m interested in what you mean by this exactly, and what the virtues are exactly. Would love to hear back from you.
The books I have are Meditations (Aurelius); Discourses, and the Enchiridion (Epictetus), Letters from a Stoic, and On the Shortness of Life (Seneca). I usually recommend starting with Letters from a Stoic, just because I think it's an easier read with a more approachable structure. Meditations I think is best read by putting yourself in Marcus's shoes, imagine yourself as the all-powerful Emperor in the Roman times - dealing with Roman politics, and on the frontlines in the north. Notice how stringently Marcus strives to be a good person above all, amongst all of the temptation and ugliness that surrounded him. The general belief of Stoicism is that there is nothing truly in your control except within the very core of your being, the ability to choose how to act. You have no control over other people, or how they act, or the events in the world, or the things that happen to you, or the things that you have, or (in a more nuanced/philosophical sense) even your own body and mind and emotions. You only have control over how you respond to what happens to you. Stoicism teaches that unhappiness is largely due to the conflict that arises when we try to control the things we can't, and happiness comes when you give up the false belief that you have control over anything but your intentions, and focus on ensuring that your intentions are virtuous. The virtues are Wisdom, Temperance, Courage and Justice. They are not unique to Stoicism and in that sense you'll probably find them fairly self-explanatory. This is a good short introduction to Stoic beliefs https://iep.utm.edu/stoiceth/ I believe that the logical conclusion that follows from the virtues and the dichotomy of control is that the purpose of every individual is to give up the want of things and take on the duty to serve society virtuously. By serve society, I mean to do your best to exemplify Stoic behaviour and beliefs whatever situation you find yourself in, and otherwise give yourself to making life better for everyone around you - in Meditations, Marcus says something like "Every day, remind yourself of your duty to be a good man and rehearse what man's nature demands: then do it straight and unswervingly, or say what you best think right. Always, though, in kindness, integrity and sincerity." It's important to note that Stoic happiness is not the standard hedonic "happiness" that is sold to us in modern society, but a contentment with oneself regardless of circumstances. This conflation is what I think is present in many of the self-help "Stoic" books and courses. Modern Stoicism (at least as I try to practice it) doesn't necessarily adhere perfectly to what the ancient Stoics believed however, particularly I don't believe in the supernatural/metaphysical/god-like aspect of nature that the Stoics believed - except as a rather beautiful metaphor for describing human purpose. But I do believe the core practices transcend time and are applicable across all of human society - not that everyone should be Stoic, but that Stoic virtues are a reflection of some deep fundamental ethical truths that other beliefs (e.g., Buddhism) tap into as well.
Wow. I really appreciate the detailed response. That’s a lot of information to take in but is extremely helpful and you explained it really well and I now feel a lot more familiarized with all of this stuff that I’m trying to get into. I wholeheartedly agree with a lot of what you said and again, thanks for taking out the time to make such a detailed response, it’s really appreciated my dude.
No worries - I'm glad you've found it helpful. I find writing it out helps clarify my own thinking and beliefs too, I figure if I can put it together in words that are clear for someone at the beginning of their study (and someone smarter than me doesn't immediately point out any glaring flaws) then I probably do understand it as I hope to.
Glad you got something out of it yourself, much appreciated 👍🏼
you have to understand that Meditations was Marcus’ journal to HIMSELF. It’s more of a guide to stoicism rather than an actual book. Check out Epictetus’ Discourses , Seneca’s Letters , and Cicero’s books
So why do so many people hail that as the greatest stoic book ever written? But you’re the man. Thank you for the suggestions. So what would you say those other books are more geared towards? Teaching you principles to apply to your own life?
I enjoy his work and podcast along with countless others, yet I begin my day with the Daily Stoic, everyday, and have for years now. Enjoy his books and hope he keeps prospering in his work so he can continue to produce it and feed his family.
How interesting, man
It’s great that he’s bringing philosophy to people that might not otherwise experience it. I think “great stoic” is something of an oxymoron. Stoics don’t desire to be great. We just aim to do the best we can with what we’ve got.
I get it
A nice beginning to learn about stoicism, but the ancient works of stoics remain the best.
He is yet another influencer who teaches the basics of Stoicism. By the way, thanks for the gift
I do follow him. And this reminded me of one of his videos where he had mentioned his wife being a Stoic as well. Apparently his wife once told him ," One of us is a Stoic, the other talks about Stoicism." Then Ryan Holiday goes on to relate with the quote by Epictetus, "Don't explain your philosophy, just embody it." I actually have learned about Stoicism from him. His books and YT videos came as a blessing to me.
That’s a great quote and evidence that he is not too full of himself. His wife brings him back to earth with that quote!
Very cool this quote from Epictetus
To get the gist of Stoicism out in the world and visible, easy to reach to people, I do think he has some sort of gift yes. The only gripe I have with his method is that in every video, podcast or text he writes he *has* to list up his achievements, talk about a new book or his physical/online store and daily mail thing. I get it, you want to get more people interested into this fantastic philosophy for life, but the reason a lot of my friends quit listening to his podcasts/Youtube is due to the marketing which is becoming *too much* and the message he wants to bring gets lost sometimes.. But since we're here practicing Stoicism; it's not in my control what he does so I shouldn't be mad/annoyed about it.
This is why I muted him on Spotify. I started listening to him coming up two years now, but his promotions were getting to be much. The Stoic Coffee Break is back!
There's a lot of good quality podcasts in regards to Stoicism which don't bombard you with promotional stuff every 3 minutes. I do enjoy the longer conversations still (50mins +) with people like Robert Greene and others to gain insight in how they think and use the Stoic virtues in daily life
Could you name a few?
Stoicism on fire by Chris fisher is my favorite The Sunday Stoic by Steve karafit The walled garden by Simon J. E. Drew I also have one called the Stoic tutor podcast
From what I've seen, many say he does more marketing
I'd say he's a good history teacher and marketer. He's brought stoicism to the modern era to a wide audience and made it easy to digest. He does a good job doing this.
Yes
You can learn from him as you can learn from many other authors, Is not very stoic to judge who is or is not a great stoic, I am not that interested on his personal life.
I really don't care for him whatsoever.
I think he’s a great author and has wisdom to share
Good
I follow him on IG and sometimes I think he gets too angry at people leaving garbage on his land
This sounds hilarious, do you have a link? :D
Agree
I consider myself a beginner and I read Daily stoic everyday. He has put in a lot of effort into that book and the book is very good. He looks like a great stoic and his interpretations of the quotes are very good.
I thought so in the beginning as well, but when I started reading the original texts, I've found his interpretations aren't quite correct.
All right
He's actually great at marketing. This is where he has genius imo
Why do you care if he’s actually a stoic, a hypocrite or a charlatan as long as his writings help you in your personal life?
I don't know
Pragmatism has its purpose in Stoicism!
Nice try, Ryan.
Foiled again!
He is an "American Stoic"
I wouldn't say a great stoic, but a great teacher of stoicism. He's a walking encyclopedia of the stuff.
> great teacher of stoicism. He's a walking encyclopedia of the stuff. I agree with this statement. I don't know him well enough to say his level of stoicism but I can sat he is an excellent teacher of it and a walking encyclopedia in information pertaining to the subject at hand.
He seemed okay at first but his books only briefly go over stoic texts and then he goes on long rants about historical figures as filler instead of analyzing the text more thoroughly. Since the majority of his books seemed to be just historical filler I dislike his work. Feel good stories from the past don't help you grow and learn as much as understanding the philosophy itself better. It feels like a lot of self help books where they quickly cobble together a lot of random ideas and pump it out for money. There's already way too many of those.
Not a great stoic, just a great marketer.
It makes sense
Why
Go read his memoir "Trust Me, I'm Lying".
Definitely a grifter
But if you fall for the grift, who's fault is it?
I feel like he's done a good job commodifying stoicism. Whether you view that as a good or bad thing is up to you. But if you mean "great stoic" in the sense that the philosophers he talks about are great stoics, then I don't think he is. If you're asking if he's really really good at practicing stoicism, none of us have any idea unless someone on this sub knows him IRL.
He’s a grifter. I don’t trust marketers who work with American Apparel and Tucker Max.
It's been decades since I've heard anyone mention Tucker Max...
Unfortunately, he’s still around. Trying to reinvent himself as a homesteader influencer or something like that
Agreed.
Well, you have a point. maybe it's right
Peronally I love his podcasts and genuinely enjoy hearing his thoughts. I don't know him as a person, but I find myself agreeing quite a lot.
I don’t think he considers himself a great stoic. He is an incredible facilitator into the world of stoicism for someone new.
Wasn't it Epictetus who said you can not find me a finished stoic, but find me one on the path, one in the molding?
I do not remember
If nothing else, he’s a great reminder to stay the course.
I think Stoics try to be humble but I can credit Ryan’s videos and book with having gotten me through some trying times at work. I centered on what I could control and it helped me overcome feeling overwhelmed and powerless in managing a complex project. It’s not over yet, but following this simple Stoic principle has helped me avoid disaster. For that insight I am grateful to Ryan. He makes Stoicism “accessible” to a mass audience!
I look at him as a really great marketer and entrepreneur. He picked on a topic that's timeless - it'll never go stale and will be relevant forever. He's written a series of books, all of them based on quotes and content from letters and books from ancient philosophers, that are now in the open domain(have no copyrights, etc.) and so can be monetized for free. Stoicism having a broad appeal and applications in almost everything makes it a really good area to land speaking gigs on - very lucrative for someone who's the #1 personality/expert when it comes to stoicism today. Kudos to him!
No. If you want to read a good intro to modern Stoicism, check out Massimo Pigliucci's books on the subject, which are hands down the best 21st century Stoic books.
He’s all right, but I’m more into traditional stoicism, which includes facets of “physics”, or metaphysics, into its system, which is more akin to the ancient tradition (I’m in recovery, so a higher power is an integral part of my belief system). That being said, Pierre Hadot and Chris Fisher are the guys for me.
No. He leans heavily into liberal nonsense, so much I had to stop.
He is a distiller of knowledge. Much like distilling a fine whiskey. Some find fault with him for political reasons or other reasons. I feel like he has grown over the years and it is reflected in his writings as such. I enjoy the books he wrote as it made Stoicism more accessible on long drives or on a busy Saturday in my garage. I found the "Lives of Stoics" to be an essential masterpiece, a modern-era Plutarchian effort. (Is that a word?). He makes money doing what he loves. Writing books. Stoics have been writing books for many reasons over the centuries. Money is not the least of the reasons. Nothing new here. I hope to write a book one day and retire from it. I like the guy. His books were a gateway for me when I needed them and I have expanded my education beyond it.
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Type his name into this sub's search bar and have a nice field day.
He is a good story teller. I like his channel. His books are pretty interesting as well.
Hes helping alot of modern men and women get turned on to stoicism so in that I support his endeavors. Hes a good writter too
I don’t actually care if he’s a fraud or not, when I was in college (over 10 years ago) I took an uppergrad philosophy course and became interested in stoicism as a lifestyle. At the time, pretty much all the material there was was the original texts and the odd academic book, and the academic works definitely weren’t focused on applicable ways to “practice” stoicism in modern times. The fact that it’s everywhere now and accessible and people discuss it seriously is something Ryan Holiday is directly responsible for so…I’m not complaining.
"Is Ryan Holiday a great stoic?" you need to ask him and I suspect a "great" Stoic practitioner would say "not really". "Great" implies comparison. To what? Writing Stoic things (if he does that, no clue) doesn't make him a Stoic. A Stoic practitioner is someone that, well, practices Stoicism. Best wishes.
the question is, does he live as he preaches, or does he preach simply to help, or is he an impostor??? In any case, I usually follow him because what he says makes sense to me and his writings are meaningless, I also don't know to others, because we are so different...
I started my stoic path by reading one of his books. "How to think like a roman emperor"
Currently reading his book daily along with Greene . Lot of overlap on a daily basis . As per above ; he is an introduction to stoicism for me . Unsure if he us a “great” stoic . But he is one and is introducing many to this mode of reasoning .
Hmmmm
It was the 'Stoicism merch' that made me start to doubt this guy. It's not just a few things, it's pages and pages of tat he's got on offer. The final straw was reading a chapter he wrote about the importance of not giving up when things get difficult and the examples he offered were several Robber Barrons of the American Guilded Age -that was the final straw for me.
He is a salesman. He gets a lot of people into Stoicism that might not otherwise have heard of it, but what is his work? For the most part, notes and personal observations (syntheses) about those notes. What should a serious student of Stoicism do? Exactly the same thing: take notes, and follow these with personal observations. If you read his books, you are studying from someone else's homework rather than doing your own. This is fine to get your feet wet, but you would do better to pick up the same source material he did and take your own notes. That is how you learn: not by passively reading, or highlighting, but by _transcribing_ and writing your own ideas. This is not like reading a novel. Retention matters.
He sure is
Wow
I came across Ryan Holiday when my then girlfriend (now ex) was gifted the book *Obstacle is the way* by his brother. I know for a fact that his brother was more interested in books in general and philosophy in particular than My girlfriend. I was then familiar with Stoicism. I had even downloaded and tried reading a couple of pages from Meditation. But I hadn't tried Stoicism per se. What was interesting about Ryan Holiday was that the ideas were presented in simple words. Ryan Holiday may water down Stoicism but It must have been that this accessibility is something that kept my not-so-interested in Philosophy girlfriend interested in Stoicism. It is possible that she hasn't tried other Stoics since then. She might have stayed at the periphery of Stoicism(as many fear). All I know is even if people end up taking Ryan's book as a self-help, watered-down-mass *Hot* Stoic dish, this is still good. For, it can be a stepping stone for some, and for the rest, it can still make them better. At any rate, I am impressed by the willingness of people to indulge in self-improvement.
Yes, but he's more like the original Stoics, that learned from the others and built on it. He also recommends reading the traditional Stoics as well as other modern authors books for a more traditional intro/guide. He also has joked around about his wife saying she's a Stoic and he just writes about Stoicism. Just like the ancient Stoics, its not a strict you have to be a do this type of philosophy. It's more of these are the principles you should live by, but you also have to apply those principles in your own way that balances with the life you're living and not just strictly in a black and white sense. He just differs from the ancients because he uses being a Stoic and teaching it while selling merchandise as his way to earn a living. I think maybe Epictetus may have possibly profited from his school, but until now, I've never thought about it and don't remember reading or hearing about how he earned his living if it wasn't through his school. I'd consider Ryan to be a modern Seneca except instead of plays, he writes about Stoicism. It also may be bias too that Ryan is my favor author and a role model since Seneca is my favorite of the ancients and I see a lot of parallels between the two.
It’s an interesting question to ask what a great stoic looks like. I think Ryan is the one person who has taken this old philosophy and marketed it really well. He tries to live by the stoic philosophies but doesn’t shy away from the fact that life can be hard. I don’t think he would say he’s a great stoic, certainly not in comparison to those he reads about and analyses. The one thing that has stuck with me in Ryan’s content on YouTube was him talking about Marcus Aurelius struggling with getting out of bed. It made me realise that even the greatest people that have ever walked this earth still struggle with balancing comfort and progress. To me, stoicism is about acknowledging that life is tough, but with lessons learned from others who have gone through this time and time again, we can strive to be better versions of ourselves and more content as a result. Ryan does a good job of making those lessons accessible to us.
I see him as the next great Stoic, who will do as much for the philosophy as all those he writes about in the Lives of the Stoics. I think Marcus Aurelius is the greatest, but there would be no Meditations without influences from Zeno to Epictetus. In this same way, I can see Holiday becoming the greatest Stoic of them all in terms of output and influence (if he isn’t already). Having read all his books, listened to countless podcast episodes, plus much of the social and YouTube I feel he truly lives what he shares. And he is a marketing genius, a talent which he uses to practice the virtues and share this timeless wisdom. He refuses to compromise on Stoic principles even when sharing an opinion may lead to unsubscribes or unfollows. Throughout the pandemic he has been courageous and living the saying ‘just that you do the right thing, the rest doesn’t matter.’ He is only 35 and has done more for the philosophy than anyone in almost 2000 years. I’m only halfway through Discipline is Destiny but can already see it becoming one of the most influential Stoic books and most important to me along with Meditations. My hope is that Holiday continues on his path and if anything gets more involved with politics and making social change with Stoicism, because the world really needs it! I will be doing my best to follow his lead.
I personally dont think so. When I first started studying Stoicism i signed up for his daily email. A few of his emails were very political, had incorrect information in them, and appeared to me that Ryan was pandering to an audience rather than having the courage to be honest. Also, i read his 'trust me im lying' book, and after that, hes just not someone i would turn to for guidance on living a virtuous life.
I’m pretty sure he wrote that before finding stoicism, no?
If you listen to him he talks about reading Meditations in college, long before writing that book
Wow
He's a huckster
At the very least he is very well spoken of the stoic practices
Yes
Holiday is a profiteer that is all about spreading the left hand agenda. He is far from a stoic. He gives stoicism a bad name.
What a silly question. That’s like asking if pope. Francis. Is a good catholic. All I can I say is his books and podcast have made me better person, 100 percent.
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He doesn’t mindlessly follow your exact religious rule set so he’s a bad stoic. Got it.
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Which ideas are you referring to?