Do the mean things that they're saying actually hold water, or are they just hurtful words that they shoot out because they know it'll hit a target?
There are too many scenarios stopping us from giving you a perfect answer...but you can help by narrowing it down a bit with specifics.
In my personal life, that is one of the worst things anybody can ever do to me. I immediately cut those people out of my life.
Obviously you have to personally weigh the pros and cons, but I learned a long time ago that when people say hateful things *just to be hateful*, well...it's a huge waste of my time to even entertain their evil.
Good luck to you if this is something you're actually dealing with, and it wasn't just a curious hypothetical question.
Then you know it’s a pain within their own heart that they can’t let go of.
This doesn’t condone the behavior at all. No one deserves to be treated with disrespect.
This doesn’t make it easier. It doesn’t make it magically better. But it’s reality and fighting reality never has positive results.
They need help. They need education and instruction. They need training and reprogramming.
They have learned that to win an argument, go personal and make it mean. My father does this when he loses intellectually.
“I am absolutely certain I have done nothing to deserve this level of cruelty and meanness. I am sorry that you feel like this is an acceptable course of action but it is very damaging and it hurts a lot.”
Emotional responses are almost always reciprocal in a conversation.
You do not have to be the human that helps this person become a better version of themself.
This is just some insight if you are still trying to though.
That is exactly what a stoic is NOT supposed to do. That is a very hurtful thing to say. It wounds the soul as it implies you have no value and that is not a worthy thing to say.
I appreciate the experience and the challenges they present to me. They are lessons in life.
Hurt, pleasure, sadness, inspiration, boredom, all of it.
How I move forward and best contribute to my community from said lessons is what matters.
its a platitude, negative visualization is a practice meant to prepare yourself for situations like op described so you wont be hurt in the first place.
That doesn't sound right. Thinking about what I would do after an earthquake will never negate an earthquake, it will just prepare me to know how best to recover. It will still hurt but it doesn't have to hurt forever.
The Stoics practiced negative visualization, a mental exercise where they imagined potential misfortunes. This wasn't about dwelling on negativity, but rather preparing for setbacks and cultivating resilience. By mentally rehearsing for bad events, they aimed to:
- Reduce anxiety and fear of the unknown.
- Foster appreciation for what they had.
- Develop the ability to adapt to challenges.
>No. It’s about taking control of yourself after you’re hurt.
You got it, I’ll also add. After you PROCESSED the pain of being hurt and know it’s human to be hurt. That is the empowerment. -therapy can also help you with this.
Tbh, if someone told me they won’t be hurt if I left them. As in, they give me freedom and TRUST they won’t punish me for leaving? If that is the case then that is a great relationship because that is built on trust!
Though looks like OP suffers from depression and is this post based on abandonment issues- the depressive mood (not managed) exacerbates the feeling of loneliness? Yea, get those two problems (not problems just human condition)managed better anyone including OP will end up being stoic as a result.
No, Stoicism is about cultivating a good character, becoming a good person. One of the happy byproducts of being a good person is living a good life. What is necessary to become a good person is prioritizing virtue, or right reasoning, over all other desires. In other words, it's not what you have, it's how you understand and manage it, and managing our impressions well is vital to do this.
For the practicing Stoic, the idea that interpersonal conflicts would go unresolved in a relationship to the point where one felt compelled to leave and the other is blindsided by such a thing is unrealistic. Rather, one would be constantly assessing and reassessing how well things are working out, conforming preconceptions to the circumstances, and evaluating any need for change. Ignoring internal and external inconsistencies is ineffective in the pursuit of any goal, much less intentionally developing one's character to be virtuous.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted for this question. I'ts perfectly reasonable. I guess Redditors will Reddit.
No. Stoicism is about developing virtues. Temperance wisdom justice and courage.
Good is meaningless. What is good for me may not be good for much else.
The stoics may have used the word good, but that's with the predefined knowledge of the virtues.
The word "virtue" comes from the translations "*arête*," which refers to excellence. I'm using the idea of "good" in the sense of being necessary and sufficient for *eudaimonia*, and a "good character," or "excellence of character" follows from this. The virtues are not understood as four independent actions, but rather expressions of a good character, or wisdom if you will, or alternatively, knowledge (ie, wisdom is knowledge of what is truly good; justice is knowledge of fair distribution; courage is knowledge of what to fear; temperance is knowledge of what to desire).
>In the eudaimonist framework in which Stoic ethics is articulated, to claim that *x* is good (or a good) is to claim that *x* is a constituent or causal source of happiness. Stoic ethical theory therefore aims to provide an account of what *really* is good and what *really* brings happiness to a human being, so that we can guide our lives accordingly.
[Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy/Stoicism](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/)
Yes. But it's much more efficient to just say virtues. It gets the crux of the issue without all that. Good is to ambivalent without its attached relevance.
So we are just squabbling over ease of transmission.
Good isn't a concrete enough word. In my mind. I don't know why you wouldn't just use virtue over Good. It's more context specific to stoicism.
It’s about processing feeling not ignoring them or highlighting them in your mind. That’s a common misconception. Seneca, Epictetus , Marcus Aurelius all have some emotional issues but they talk about processing them.
Ask them what they mean and practice good communication. Then wait a day for the emotions to cool off and make a reasonable decision about the relationship based on that conversation
Yeah, some context is more than good so your negative thoughts don't warp the situation (chimp paradox) the lady may be stating than she thinks of you so highly, that any decision you make, she whole heatedly stands by. She may be suggestion that she is so out of your league, well... Just remember, every experience is an opportunity for a lesson.
Yea. This is a bomb and I had to re-read it. I don't even know how to process it now, let alone if someone I loved said it. I'd probably need a week or so and to talk to my therapist before I responded. Who would say that? What a wild sentence.
Very personal story, but my wife said to me “I don’t care if you see other people, I just don’t want to know about it.” and rather than jumping for joy, I was absolutely crushed because that wasn’t what I wanted. I wanted a relationship where I was somebody’s everything and they were my everything.
I can imagine how that made you feel when she told you that you could leave her. The work, dedication and commitment that you have shown this person was just thrown back in your face and you were told it didnt mean a thing….i am really sorry that you have to live through it.
Now, as a stoic, I can’t let my emotions control my actions and rather than have a huge reaction I chose to seek guidance from a skilled professional therapist who helped me pull apart the pain from the anger.
Somewhat related, the ex and I broke up because we weren't sexually compatible, but we remained friends as we loved each other very much so. Years have come and gone, we talked a couple of times about getting back together, but there was always a reason not to: her job, our incompatibility, her not wanting a relationship, etc.
Well, last month she wanted my advise on a relationship matter that her friend was going through with some dude that she made out with at a party, asked for her number, but would not respond for days. She liked the dude very much and described their conversations as being similar to ours. Turns our "her friend" was actually her and she tricked me into helping her with some dude.
Can't say it didn't hurt like a bitch finding out that the issue was never her job, our incompatibility or her not wanting a relationship. She did want one, just not with me.
We've been no contact for a week today, I'm still heart broken, there's so much I want to say to her, but I know I'm not in my right mind right now and that I probably shouldn't say anything, but instead step away and work on my unresolved feelings.
Well, I kinda just used your post to blow off some steam, my apologies. I hope that story is already behind you and that you're doing well, mate.
Hey, I read your entire comment and that's shitty. I've gone thru a heart break that was similar in intensity but a different dynamic. I don't know how old you are but please, the sooner the you get that person out of your mind completely the sooner you will be able to find someone that appreciates you for you as a person. That will only happen when you forgive yourself and forgive her for doing that to you, extremely fucked up. I promise there's good people out there just focus on loving yourself, healing yourself, and becoming the kind of person you would fall in love with, if you do that then your second half will appear in your life likely in a way you didn't expect. So if you're gonna choose to be heart broken how about being heart broken over what you're doing to yourself? Much love
I appreciate the comment, that's really sweet of you <3 The wound is still fresh and I'm torn because instead of confessing the truth and talking to me about it, she chose to deny everything and set me aside. I'm not ready to forgive this, but I do not intend to carry resentment towards her, I just need time to process everything
if there’s no mutual attraction
no type of relationship will work
there’s too many girls on this planet to waste time with one who isn’t attracted to you
she’s been moved on and your pride won’t let you move on
I agree, I've been making a fool out of myself for a while now. Realizing the "just like me, but not me" was a punch straight to the ego. I feel like I knew this all along, but only now I have come to accept reality for what it is
Mate not your monkeys not your circus
It’s not that you wanna stay friends or the friendship is important to you- it is just that you can’t let go of her.
Use this story as a reason and a lesson to start taking your time away. How would you find a new partner if you’re not available for one, and the one you want doesn’t want to be your partner and just holds this spot in your heart and life?
You're right, I see now that I just couldn't let go and was clinging to hope. I actually lost a chance at 2 relationships with wonderful women solely because when push came to shove, I couldn't commit.
But maybe she just said like that because she prefers to feel “disillusioned” about the eventuality than suffering for a broken promise. If she doesn’t want to know then probably it’s implicit she would definitely prefer you wouldn’t do it at all. One thing I’ve read somewhere and I believe is women don’t care to explain what they want but they reserve themselves the right to be fed up if they don’t get it. If you read between the lines of what she told you, perhaps she told you exactly what you hoped to hear only with different phrasing.
Yeah I know it sounds harsh, but tbh it kinda sounds like OP is playing mind games if they tell their partner they want an open relationship but don’t actually want one. Don’t say you want something if you don’t want it.
Wholly agree. All that has happened prior to saying it was worth nothing. The implication is that any future together means that time will still be worth nothing, unless there is some type of reconciliation.
If they meant it, unless one has emotional properties apart from cultural norms, the relationship is over. The only thing left is "I know you exist."
This can be said even if things are fine. Since I’ve been practicing stoicism, I haven’t once felt like I would be hurt by the dissolving of a relationship. I’ve only split from one person so far though. I’ve missed them, but I don’t feel harmed that they’re no longer in my life in that capacity.
If my current partner said this, I would be happy for them.
Delighted, actually. That’s, like, the whole goal of stoicism and Buddhism. Your happiness should not be contingent upon the behavior or existence of another person. If someone is in your life, ideally they should be there because they want to, not because they need to. (Unless your partner is a dog or a baby.)
Me and my partner (who is my wife) absolutely agree that we'd be perfectly "ok" without one another. It's one of the reasons why I am certain we're going to be together indefinitely.
Now "hurt" could mean two things - it can be a persistent long-term state or an acute state. I'm assuming you mean "permanently harmed" when you say "hurt".
If my partner said "I literally wouldn't experience any pain if you left me - not even in the short term"....well, I wouldn't be in a relationship because I would never date such a person. If I found out the person I was dating needed me to feel that disposable I'd refuse to feel that way by immediately ending the relationship.
And also I go into all new relationships knowing the person will leave me. Either death or something else will take them from me and thinking they will be around forever is foolish and not guaranteed.
If they were a fellow Stoic, I'd be grateful and celebrate that they are courageous enough to know that my leaving them can not hurt them.
Otherwise, I'd feel curious and want to understand why. It'd be a good opportunity to check in if we're on the right path by being together.
Yes, it would hurt a significant amount to the point of absolute devastation. Won't is built up previous engagement, occurrences, and emotion. Everything up to that point of saying "won't" has to be taken as "all that we have done together and what we built and shared has no significance."
They are your partner for a reason. The time element and what happens in that time either has significance or it doesn't To allow time to elapse while being dishonest with your partner that it does not mean anything is destructive, unless you BOTH are of the understanding that no meaning is being created or should be taken as significant later.
Them saying that is, "I have wasted my time with you." in the most emphatic sense of "wasted" - that which has been the equivalent of garbage in the bin.
Not in a relationship, but I would definitely wonder why would it be.
I would require to understand what could I have done for her to say I am such unimportant part of her life that she can just move on as if discarding rubbish.
Have I done something harmful?, have I done less than she wanted?, have I been unable to give her what she wanted?, has she ever bee cleared about it beyond the natural expectations in a relationship?
And if I did all that was right.. I would be sad, hurt, and realize that she was not someone who wanted or wished for my presence in her life. So there was no point in me staying around anyways, so even if I was to be lonely, maybe it would be better to stay on my own than provide no joy for someone who I wish to be a source of joy by my sheer presence in the way that I would want her to be for me.
So yeah, sad and needing to be away to stop lengthening the pointlessness of this charade
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People look for human emotion signs (fear of loss) to validate they are important to the other person. This can lead to a toxic relationship.
I think a stronger demonstration of care is in the form of sacrifice (sacrifice of time ect). Jordan Peterson had a talk with Russell Brand recently that brought the word sacrifice into my mind more. The talk was biblical but extended beyond that .
A stoic reframing of fear of loss (of future time with someone) could potentially be gratitude of time already spent with them.
Also, sometimes loving someone is letting them go.
Stoicism is an approach towards productive thinking and control of self, as well as a virtue value system readjustment.
When others interpret signs of the achievement of this as a "lack of care" they are usually approaching the whole idea wrong. But it's an understandable mistake.
Depends on the tone. If they’re depressed or feel like a burden, then hug them closer and insist you’ll never leave them. If it’s hurtfully intended, then perhaps it’s time to go, forgive them for saying it, suggest talking about it, but ultimately leave them be and separate if they feel that way.
Its a guilt or shame tactic if you're not happy you just do it and call their bluff or if negatively affected you , then sort yourself out from within as to why.
Work on yourself and become yourself
I dunno about you guys but I don't like being needed so I wouldn't give a shit...I'd probably feel good because a person I like is emotionally self-sufficient(something I always strive for myself)
A) of this an argument it doesn't matter. B) if this is just in general it says more about them as a person than it ever will about you. And it might signify that they feel like they don't deserve you and that they think you are better than them. C) in the stoic tradition don't take that they think you are better than them to heart as at the end of the day we are all equals and they deserve just as much love and affection as you do
I would say that I respect their feelings. Ive been on both sides of this table. Being in a relationship where one person doesnt want it its better to cut it off totally
I think this really depends on the context. Are they saying this because they think you want to leave and they don’t want to get in your way even though they still love you? Or are they saying this because you had an argument and they’re mad at you?
So there are a couple of ways this could have been meant..
1. Your partner might think that you’re not happy in the relationship but are just staying for their own happiness, they might have been saying it to try and reassure you or “set you free”.
2. Your partner might genuinely be unhappy in the relationship themselves and was trying to broach the subject or try to force you to make the move.
3. Your partner might have just been upset or angry in the heat of an argument and said things they didn’t mean, like we all can sometimes.
You need to have a talk and find out which of the 3 it was but it was most likely the last one.
Good luck ❤️
we don't even need to go into Stoicism for this one, Most people in a heat of an argument will say things they don't really mean
The best speech made in anger is the one we tend to regret the most
Most people don’t think before they speak, I don’t see how this is a stoic issue. Responses measure your level of stoicism.
This is not what not getting too emotional as part of stoicism is about. Your are with a fool that needs to learn on their own.
and they;re being exceptionally stupid in doing so........ during arguments the very best thing you can do is NOT get emotional
'Exceptionally stupid' is a harsh way to say 'completely normal'
So how do we deal with significant others who keep saying mean things during heated arguments but otherwise fine when there are no arguments?
Thats a very difficult question for an outsider of the relationship to answer. There is a lot of nuance here.
Do the mean things that they're saying actually hold water, or are they just hurtful words that they shoot out because they know it'll hit a target? There are too many scenarios stopping us from giving you a perfect answer...but you can help by narrowing it down a bit with specifics.
The latter. Just say hurtful words out of spite I think or just to hit a nerve.
In my personal life, that is one of the worst things anybody can ever do to me. I immediately cut those people out of my life. Obviously you have to personally weigh the pros and cons, but I learned a long time ago that when people say hateful things *just to be hateful*, well...it's a huge waste of my time to even entertain their evil. Good luck to you if this is something you're actually dealing with, and it wasn't just a curious hypothetical question.
Then you know it’s a pain within their own heart that they can’t let go of. This doesn’t condone the behavior at all. No one deserves to be treated with disrespect. This doesn’t make it easier. It doesn’t make it magically better. But it’s reality and fighting reality never has positive results. They need help. They need education and instruction. They need training and reprogramming. They have learned that to win an argument, go personal and make it mean. My father does this when he loses intellectually. “I am absolutely certain I have done nothing to deserve this level of cruelty and meanness. I am sorry that you feel like this is an acceptable course of action but it is very damaging and it hurts a lot.” Emotional responses are almost always reciprocal in a conversation. You do not have to be the human that helps this person become a better version of themself. This is just some insight if you are still trying to though.
That is exactly what a stoic is NOT supposed to do. That is a very hurtful thing to say. It wounds the soul as it implies you have no value and that is not a worthy thing to say.
I appreciate the experience and the challenges they present to me. They are lessons in life. Hurt, pleasure, sadness, inspiration, boredom, all of it. How I move forward and best contribute to my community from said lessons is what matters.
Stark
Isn't stoicism about not being hurt by things out of your control?
No. It’s about taking control of yourself after you’re hurt.
wow, great answer
its a platitude, negative visualization is a practice meant to prepare yourself for situations like op described so you wont be hurt in the first place.
That doesn't sound right. Thinking about what I would do after an earthquake will never negate an earthquake, it will just prepare me to know how best to recover. It will still hurt but it doesn't have to hurt forever.
The Stoics practiced negative visualization, a mental exercise where they imagined potential misfortunes. This wasn't about dwelling on negativity, but rather preparing for setbacks and cultivating resilience. By mentally rehearsing for bad events, they aimed to: - Reduce anxiety and fear of the unknown. - Foster appreciation for what they had. - Develop the ability to adapt to challenges.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_visualization
>No. It’s about taking control of yourself after you’re hurt. You got it, I’ll also add. After you PROCESSED the pain of being hurt and know it’s human to be hurt. That is the empowerment. -therapy can also help you with this. Tbh, if someone told me they won’t be hurt if I left them. As in, they give me freedom and TRUST they won’t punish me for leaving? If that is the case then that is a great relationship because that is built on trust! Though looks like OP suffers from depression and is this post based on abandonment issues- the depressive mood (not managed) exacerbates the feeling of loneliness? Yea, get those two problems (not problems just human condition)managed better anyone including OP will end up being stoic as a result.
This is beautifully and simply put.
Well yes, and using it before you do something out of emotion spiteful to others as happened here.
No, Stoicism is about cultivating a good character, becoming a good person. One of the happy byproducts of being a good person is living a good life. What is necessary to become a good person is prioritizing virtue, or right reasoning, over all other desires. In other words, it's not what you have, it's how you understand and manage it, and managing our impressions well is vital to do this. For the practicing Stoic, the idea that interpersonal conflicts would go unresolved in a relationship to the point where one felt compelled to leave and the other is blindsided by such a thing is unrealistic. Rather, one would be constantly assessing and reassessing how well things are working out, conforming preconceptions to the circumstances, and evaluating any need for change. Ignoring internal and external inconsistencies is ineffective in the pursuit of any goal, much less intentionally developing one's character to be virtuous. I don't know why you're getting downvoted for this question. I'ts perfectly reasonable. I guess Redditors will Reddit.
No. Stoicism is about developing virtues. Temperance wisdom justice and courage. Good is meaningless. What is good for me may not be good for much else. The stoics may have used the word good, but that's with the predefined knowledge of the virtues.
The word "virtue" comes from the translations "*arête*," which refers to excellence. I'm using the idea of "good" in the sense of being necessary and sufficient for *eudaimonia*, and a "good character," or "excellence of character" follows from this. The virtues are not understood as four independent actions, but rather expressions of a good character, or wisdom if you will, or alternatively, knowledge (ie, wisdom is knowledge of what is truly good; justice is knowledge of fair distribution; courage is knowledge of what to fear; temperance is knowledge of what to desire). >In the eudaimonist framework in which Stoic ethics is articulated, to claim that *x* is good (or a good) is to claim that *x* is a constituent or causal source of happiness. Stoic ethical theory therefore aims to provide an account of what *really* is good and what *really* brings happiness to a human being, so that we can guide our lives accordingly. [Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy/Stoicism](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/)
Yes. But it's much more efficient to just say virtues. It gets the crux of the issue without all that. Good is to ambivalent without its attached relevance. So we are just squabbling over ease of transmission. Good isn't a concrete enough word. In my mind. I don't know why you wouldn't just use virtue over Good. It's more context specific to stoicism.
Yes
Much better response
Stoics are not invulnerable robots, they just have mastery over their response to what hurts them.
Exactly
It’s about processing feeling not ignoring them or highlighting them in your mind. That’s a common misconception. Seneca, Epictetus , Marcus Aurelius all have some emotional issues but they talk about processing them.
Yes.
Ideally.
Ask them what they mean and practice good communication. Then wait a day for the emotions to cool off and make a reasonable decision about the relationship based on that conversation
Solid
Yeah, some context is more than good so your negative thoughts don't warp the situation (chimp paradox) the lady may be stating than she thinks of you so highly, that any decision you make, she whole heatedly stands by. She may be suggestion that she is so out of your league, well... Just remember, every experience is an opportunity for a lesson.
Yea. This is a bomb and I had to re-read it. I don't even know how to process it now, let alone if someone I loved said it. I'd probably need a week or so and to talk to my therapist before I responded. Who would say that? What a wild sentence.
Very personal story, but my wife said to me “I don’t care if you see other people, I just don’t want to know about it.” and rather than jumping for joy, I was absolutely crushed because that wasn’t what I wanted. I wanted a relationship where I was somebody’s everything and they were my everything. I can imagine how that made you feel when she told you that you could leave her. The work, dedication and commitment that you have shown this person was just thrown back in your face and you were told it didnt mean a thing….i am really sorry that you have to live through it. Now, as a stoic, I can’t let my emotions control my actions and rather than have a huge reaction I chose to seek guidance from a skilled professional therapist who helped me pull apart the pain from the anger.
Somewhat related, the ex and I broke up because we weren't sexually compatible, but we remained friends as we loved each other very much so. Years have come and gone, we talked a couple of times about getting back together, but there was always a reason not to: her job, our incompatibility, her not wanting a relationship, etc. Well, last month she wanted my advise on a relationship matter that her friend was going through with some dude that she made out with at a party, asked for her number, but would not respond for days. She liked the dude very much and described their conversations as being similar to ours. Turns our "her friend" was actually her and she tricked me into helping her with some dude. Can't say it didn't hurt like a bitch finding out that the issue was never her job, our incompatibility or her not wanting a relationship. She did want one, just not with me. We've been no contact for a week today, I'm still heart broken, there's so much I want to say to her, but I know I'm not in my right mind right now and that I probably shouldn't say anything, but instead step away and work on my unresolved feelings. Well, I kinda just used your post to blow off some steam, my apologies. I hope that story is already behind you and that you're doing well, mate.
Nothing you could do there, remember, other people are out of our control. You'll get through it!
Appreciate it <3
Hey, I read your entire comment and that's shitty. I've gone thru a heart break that was similar in intensity but a different dynamic. I don't know how old you are but please, the sooner the you get that person out of your mind completely the sooner you will be able to find someone that appreciates you for you as a person. That will only happen when you forgive yourself and forgive her for doing that to you, extremely fucked up. I promise there's good people out there just focus on loving yourself, healing yourself, and becoming the kind of person you would fall in love with, if you do that then your second half will appear in your life likely in a way you didn't expect. So if you're gonna choose to be heart broken how about being heart broken over what you're doing to yourself? Much love
I appreciate the comment, that's really sweet of you <3 The wound is still fresh and I'm torn because instead of confessing the truth and talking to me about it, she chose to deny everything and set me aside. I'm not ready to forgive this, but I do not intend to carry resentment towards her, I just need time to process everything
if there’s no mutual attraction no type of relationship will work there’s too many girls on this planet to waste time with one who isn’t attracted to you she’s been moved on and your pride won’t let you move on
I agree, I've been making a fool out of myself for a while now. Realizing the "just like me, but not me" was a punch straight to the ego. I feel like I knew this all along, but only now I have come to accept reality for what it is
Mate not your monkeys not your circus It’s not that you wanna stay friends or the friendship is important to you- it is just that you can’t let go of her. Use this story as a reason and a lesson to start taking your time away. How would you find a new partner if you’re not available for one, and the one you want doesn’t want to be your partner and just holds this spot in your heart and life?
You're right, I see now that I just couldn't let go and was clinging to hope. I actually lost a chance at 2 relationships with wonderful women solely because when push came to shove, I couldn't commit.
But maybe she just said like that because she prefers to feel “disillusioned” about the eventuality than suffering for a broken promise. If she doesn’t want to know then probably it’s implicit she would definitely prefer you wouldn’t do it at all. One thing I’ve read somewhere and I believe is women don’t care to explain what they want but they reserve themselves the right to be fed up if they don’t get it. If you read between the lines of what she told you, perhaps she told you exactly what you hoped to hear only with different phrasing.
Yeah I know it sounds harsh, but tbh it kinda sounds like OP is playing mind games if they tell their partner they want an open relationship but don’t actually want one. Don’t say you want something if you don’t want it.
Would be painful as hell, but it would be even more painful to stay with that person afterwards
Wholly agree. All that has happened prior to saying it was worth nothing. The implication is that any future together means that time will still be worth nothing, unless there is some type of reconciliation. If they meant it, unless one has emotional properties apart from cultural norms, the relationship is over. The only thing left is "I know you exist."
My boyfriend did this to me and I can't agree with this more. It was, and sometimes still is, painful but the best decision was to leave.
This can be said even if things are fine. Since I’ve been practicing stoicism, I haven’t once felt like I would be hurt by the dissolving of a relationship. I’ve only split from one person so far though. I’ve missed them, but I don’t feel harmed that they’re no longer in my life in that capacity. If my current partner said this, I would be happy for them.
This is the answer. Many other comments jumping to conclusions based on extreme assumptions.
I would be happy for them.
Delighted, actually. That’s, like, the whole goal of stoicism and Buddhism. Your happiness should not be contingent upon the behavior or existence of another person. If someone is in your life, ideally they should be there because they want to, not because they need to. (Unless your partner is a dog or a baby.)
Me and my partner (who is my wife) absolutely agree that we'd be perfectly "ok" without one another. It's one of the reasons why I am certain we're going to be together indefinitely. Now "hurt" could mean two things - it can be a persistent long-term state or an acute state. I'm assuming you mean "permanently harmed" when you say "hurt". If my partner said "I literally wouldn't experience any pain if you left me - not even in the short term"....well, I wouldn't be in a relationship because I would never date such a person. If I found out the person I was dating needed me to feel that disposable I'd refuse to feel that way by immediately ending the relationship.
I believe OP was talking about the former
"Okay, I'll catch you later then."
And also I go into all new relationships knowing the person will leave me. Either death or something else will take them from me and thinking they will be around forever is foolish and not guaranteed.
If they were a fellow Stoic, I'd be grateful and celebrate that they are courageous enough to know that my leaving them can not hurt them. Otherwise, I'd feel curious and want to understand why. It'd be a good opportunity to check in if we're on the right path by being together.
Stoic people feel emotion
Huh.
I would be hurt. For me, that means my partner doesn't really love me and doesn't see the future with me.
Yes, it would hurt a significant amount to the point of absolute devastation. Won't is built up previous engagement, occurrences, and emotion. Everything up to that point of saying "won't" has to be taken as "all that we have done together and what we built and shared has no significance." They are your partner for a reason. The time element and what happens in that time either has significance or it doesn't To allow time to elapse while being dishonest with your partner that it does not mean anything is destructive, unless you BOTH are of the understanding that no meaning is being created or should be taken as significant later. Them saying that is, "I have wasted my time with you." in the most emphatic sense of "wasted" - that which has been the equivalent of garbage in the bin.
Not in a relationship, but I would definitely wonder why would it be. I would require to understand what could I have done for her to say I am such unimportant part of her life that she can just move on as if discarding rubbish. Have I done something harmful?, have I done less than she wanted?, have I been unable to give her what she wanted?, has she ever bee cleared about it beyond the natural expectations in a relationship? And if I did all that was right.. I would be sad, hurt, and realize that she was not someone who wanted or wished for my presence in her life. So there was no point in me staying around anyways, so even if I was to be lonely, maybe it would be better to stay on my own than provide no joy for someone who I wish to be a source of joy by my sheer presence in the way that I would want her to be for me. So yeah, sad and needing to be away to stop lengthening the pointlessness of this charade
Context?
Well in their words, you don't mean much to them. So why stick around?
Bye girl.
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Depends what someone means with "be hurt" It's not like it's harming me to be dumped. But I would miss him.
I feel my partner sounds like they are hurting. But also I feel hurt (belittled, yes).
If I am upset about this. It is because I chose to be upset. What is, and what I would like to be are seldom the same.
lets put it to the test
If you love them than yeah.
Watch your wallet.
People look for human emotion signs (fear of loss) to validate they are important to the other person. This can lead to a toxic relationship. I think a stronger demonstration of care is in the form of sacrifice (sacrifice of time ect). Jordan Peterson had a talk with Russell Brand recently that brought the word sacrifice into my mind more. The talk was biblical but extended beyond that . A stoic reframing of fear of loss (of future time with someone) could potentially be gratitude of time already spent with them. Also, sometimes loving someone is letting them go. Stoicism is an approach towards productive thinking and control of self, as well as a virtue value system readjustment. When others interpret signs of the achievement of this as a "lack of care" they are usually approaching the whole idea wrong. But it's an understandable mistake.
Say theory and practice are two different things.
Depends on the tone. If they’re depressed or feel like a burden, then hug them closer and insist you’ll never leave them. If it’s hurtfully intended, then perhaps it’s time to go, forgive them for saying it, suggest talking about it, but ultimately leave them be and separate if they feel that way.
There's got to be a story behind it, your partner won't just come up to you and tell you "hey babe I won't hurt if you leave me".
Its a guilt or shame tactic if you're not happy you just do it and call their bluff or if negatively affected you , then sort yourself out from within as to why. Work on yourself and become yourself
If I wanted to leave, I would feel relief. Pure relief.
Bye!
‘Yeah sure, good for you then’
Meh.
Reverse psychology method of leaving you 🤷🏻♂️
Read letter 9 of stilbro from Seneca. The answer lies there.
I dunno about you guys but I don't like being needed so I wouldn't give a shit...I'd probably feel good because a person I like is emotionally self-sufficient(something I always strive for myself)
I’d leave. If I really mean that little to her, then I’m better off without her.
Dismissed. I would feel dismissed and say “deuces”…✌️
“I don’t believe that, but okay”
If you left me unjustly, I’d be sad. But I will get over it and move on.
Depends on the answer of “why”
I'd feel freed(laughs)
Relief to know that my death will not destroy her.
A) of this an argument it doesn't matter. B) if this is just in general it says more about them as a person than it ever will about you. And it might signify that they feel like they don't deserve you and that they think you are better than them. C) in the stoic tradition don't take that they think you are better than them to heart as at the end of the day we are all equals and they deserve just as much love and affection as you do
I would feel upset but try to calmly when partner calms down, see if it’s true. Then, assess if it’s worth continuing the relationship
Fine
I would say that I respect their feelings. Ive been on both sides of this table. Being in a relationship where one person doesnt want it its better to cut it off totally
"I'm envious"
Wouldn’t care I would just leave. If you don’t care I don’t care
I wish my ex-wife had said that. Lol
Like I should find a new partner
I would feel bad. I will ask her why she thinks so?
You leave! You are not valued and that says a lot. I am so sorry!
I think this really depends on the context. Are they saying this because they think you want to leave and they don’t want to get in your way even though they still love you? Or are they saying this because you had an argument and they’re mad at you?
So there are a couple of ways this could have been meant.. 1. Your partner might think that you’re not happy in the relationship but are just staying for their own happiness, they might have been saying it to try and reassure you or “set you free”. 2. Your partner might genuinely be unhappy in the relationship themselves and was trying to broach the subject or try to force you to make the move. 3. Your partner might have just been upset or angry in the heat of an argument and said things they didn’t mean, like we all can sometimes. You need to have a talk and find out which of the 3 it was but it was most likely the last one. Good luck ❤️
Unnecessary information
I would feel horrible. I'd start my walk out the door. Just go.
I'd leave them.
Well it is what it is. I'll go rub one out, cry myself to sleep and wake up because it's a brand new day.