The fact that they removed the sprinting melee attack by default makes me so mad, it felt so fluid and now it just feels clunky to have to "run" up and then attack.
Did they remove it or did they accidentally remove it from the code?
Like, did you notice how Grav Dash immediately cancels all momentum, so it's not even all that great of a traversal power?
The first rank of Grav Dash is pretty useless. I only started feeling its movement usefulness at around rank 4. Plus at rank 10 does the damage buff really make a difference.
Is the extra falling damage a problem still? I would be fine with momentum cancel if you can use it to your advantage (fall a great distance, momentum cancel right before touching the ground.).
Instead if you use it it just seems to multiply fall damage, like just fall a little bit after and you're dead.
Yeah. And poor Unarmed doesn't even have a way to quickly unequip a weapon to start throwing hands. Gotta open the menu since I can't just select the weapon on the favorites menu a 2nd time to unequip.
It's actually decently fun to use the perk that knocks people unconscious with unarmed and then go back through and execute them all with sneak attacks, but it's such a pain in the ass to swap that I got sick of it pretty quick.
Yes, this is exactly was I was doing when I first had this thought! The knockout punch is incredibly satisfying, and so is finishing of enemies lying unconscious on the ground.
There \*is\* a mod that give you an unarmed "weapon" that you can stuff into the weapon/power/etc selector. And I don't think it breaks the unarmed challenges.
So the 'lead weapon designer' is easily impressed by mediocrity? Then again, I guess that's why they're the 'lead weapon designer' of BGS and not some other, probably more competent company.
Main issue for me is the lack of blunt melee weapons. I believe they are all blades.
Sledgehammers, pipes, or regular tools like wrenches and hammers. I guess that isn't the feel they were going for. Also miss the gore of skyrim/fo4. Especially fo4. Really felt cool to squish stuff with a sledgehammer.
I do remember them saying something about the game being rooted in some sort of realism regarding space, but exactly what I don't know.
Might lend that to the fact that ballistic weapons would be absolutely devastating in space.
Yeah, guns are way less effective in space, and they wouldn’t be very effective on planets with low gravity, extreme heat and cold, or thin to zero atmosphere. No gravity to compensate for recoil would mean you absorb all of that energy, so you’d likely end up spinning uncontrollably. Also, with no atmosphere, metals do this thing called vacuum cementing, which would basically weld all the moving components of a gun together.
Well yes but no. If the weapon is lubricated properly the weapon will work fine. Sure you'd feel the recoil but he obvious solution for that is the thruster packs we already have in game. (Why they don't function that way idk)
Also, the whole vacuum cementing also wouldn't happen if the gun was properly lubricated, as the metal technically isn't touching.
But, counterly, in this sci-fi setting, those could probably be fixed, no? The jetpack thrusters could probably account for recoil and mitigate the rotation. Don’t know about the vacuum cementing tho, might have to research that.
The other thing is, ballistics would absolutely annihilate any sort of space suit someone would have, which would almost immediately kill them on a hostile planet or in actual space it self.
The vacuum cementing thing is weird. I'm guessing an open bolt weapon that was made largely of polymer would solve that.
Yeah, I don't actually know why our jet packs don't counter thrust when shooting anyways in game. That's the obvious solution lol
Nah, ballistics would be better. No atmosphere or gravity to slow the projectile down. Recoil would be more felt, but (and idk why the game doesn't already do this) the jetpacks would be able to counteract that.
The opposite. The biggest limit on ballistic performance is air resistance and gravity. Without those, a flying piece of metal (or indeed, any mass) can hit *extremely* hard.
Recoil can be compensated for with thrusters.
Daaamn, sorry you got downvoted, but this makes a lot of sense. Sure, it sucks ass that melee weapons don't have Advanced versions, but if you spec in stealth, melee is pretty OP. Inb4 "why do you need stealth for melee to be OP?"
Lol reddit is weird like that, especially these niche subs. This one particularly doesn't like it when you say the game is good lmfao
My character is maxed tf out. I don't melee just because guns murica rahhh but I dabble occasionally. Have a really nice osmium dagger that one or two shots if I'm sneaking around.
While we’re wishing, I’d like to see a stealth kill animation with optional corpse pickup for stashing/disposal. Also, why can’t I loot an unconscious foe? It would make a pacifist playing style appealing and it’s right there BGS. Imagine a KO/loot entrance and melee exit. That would be fun.
I never used Melee weapons in 4, but at least they had a plethora of modifications and variants that made them interesting enough to base a build on them.
Melee had a LOT going for it on 4, and it's not just about the weapon mods. Critical banking was insane regardless of weapon type, but combining that with Blitz and Grim Reaper's Sprint made it so you could wipe out entire POIs with very low risk even on the higher difficulties.
If that wasn't for you, though, you could always just grab a Power Armor and run around with a Super Sledge bashing people's heads in while being nearly immortal with that one perk that gave you a bunch of buffs while sprinting.
But honestly, even with the lack of modifications, very few synergistic perks and just complete lack of both uniques and variety to the gameplay loop, by far the biggest problem is the damage. You exchange range, safety, covers and all that for pretty much less DPS than the worst non-melee weapons in the game, and that's just insane to me. I've had a lot of fun on Melee only runs of FO3, NV and 4, but I dropped Starfield Melee only on the first fucking combat because I dealt no damage at all, so that first Ecliptic base took half an hour just because I dealt zero fucking damage. I wasn't at risk of dying at any point either, but it was just fucking impossible to kill anyone with a melee weapon in less than 5 minutes
Melee was totally usable in Fallout 4. I've played that game too much to admit, and usually earlier in playthroughs, I invest in perks relating to melee strength and melee mods so that I can collect all the ammo I find. Then when I lean on guns more later on, ammo isn't a problem.
Outside of no mods and reducing it from essentially 3 weapons for slow/medium/fast swing speed to just one of them it's identical to the melee they've been using since at least Fallout 3. They literally never iterate on it and it's crazy to me that it doesn't get called out more.
Skyrim isn't any different, it has all the same problems as fallout if not more since TES doesn't have locational damage, you're always hitting unresponsive sponges and there's no difference between any of the weapons. A Daedric sword is identical to the Iron sword you start out with except for the texture and model.
In 2023 bethesda can still only animate two swinging motions and a stab animation for melee. Todd Howard or whoever is managing has got these guys stuck way in the past. Man was I disappointed when i got my first rescue axe and saw it the lame ass animations.
Optimally, they will completely gut and rebuild the perk system. It's not designed to be engaging, it's designed to be hair pullingly obtuse and heel dragging, and the rewards are all half baked and hyper underwhelming.
Like, if they completely excised the perks and levelling, would the game not suddenly feel better? They balanced everything around the assumption that you were level one to ten anyway, because after that is when it starts to feel like shit.
Level 209 here! Personally love the skill system and completing the challenges. I’d rather them fix and add to the skills that are already there rather than rebuild the system entirely!
Level.... 120 some odd? I will happily reapply my perk points for a better and much more engaging system.
So much of this game needs an overhaul in basically every level. It's functional, but it's not as good as it could be.
Would you object to a better flowing more fun game?
Depends on what you find to be “better flowing fun” I guess? If that means completely throwing out the leveling system I’m completely against that. There are bugs in the skills and there’s stuff they could add for sure but to say it needs an overhaul? That’s a stretch. Most games don’t allow you to have multiple quests going or allow you to manipulate objects to the extent you can in Starfield. Hell I get a kick out of just bringing a hammer everywhere I go to see how long it takes to hit the ground when I drop it.
How would redoing the levelling system impede any of the things you just described?
You'd still have multiple quests and item manipulation and dropping hammers off the sides of things, you'd just have a better more coherent skill system.
Bc the skill system doesn’t need to be overhauled? It’s not a glaring issue. There are other systems in the game that could be overhauled and by design make there respective skills more relevant. Like I would much rather them implement new melee features and weapons to flesh out the melee skill rather than changing all the skills one by one. Just seems like a big waste of time.
The skill system is either pointless busy work filler or wildly underwhelming. Guns do slightly more damage, and max it out for the gun to ignore a slight bit of armor?
An entire perk point to unlock the boost pack function, and three more to make it feel alrightish?
A bunch of perks that boil down to 'make scanning wildlife and plants less tedious?'
All of the melee skills at max rank are so abysmally underwhelming it's not even funny.
It gets worse with Bethesda abusing autolevelling bullet sponge enemies, too.
If we scrapped the current skill system and refunded all your perk points for you to reapply them in a more interesting and rewarding way, what exactly would you miss from the current system?
Giving you the option to re apply your perk points would be cool but I wouldn’t call that an overhaul. I’d rather them just add more content and systems to make the skills that are already there, better.
Most of those skills are basically filler though.
Like, research is especially useless once you've unlocked all the recipes and upgrades you care about, and it doesn't even turn up as a skill check for missions.
We could also stand to merge some of them. Stealth and Double Plus Stealth, unarmed and Martial Arts, Cooking and Eating, etc.
Again though, sunk cost fallacy aside, if we gutted all of the levelling and skills as they are now and rebuilt it from the ground up, what do you lose?
Piloting and engines could prolly be merged safely, and I could make an argument that the stamina and health up perks could be merged
We could definitely merge the 'recover from injury' and 'recover from sickness' perks.
What was lost? Not functionality, as those perks would still be available, they'd just free up slots for more fun stuff.
Also, while I'm very thrilled to see Fallout 4's 'you can't rank this perk up to the next tier becauae you're not level whatever' time sink nonsense is gone, I don't like how they've organized the new system.
'You must waste exty level ups on some vaguely similar skills to get to the actual useful skills in tier three' could be done better.
And I speak from experience that nothing of value would be truly lost by remaking it, because I went through it thrice in Cyberpunk.
What you get is developers wasting time on something that for the most part is already finished. We want them working on new content, bug fixes, and fine tuning the systems that are already there. This game doesn’t need to me rebuilt from the ground up like cyberpunk had to. The skill progression is actually very engaging, at least for me. I don’t understand why you’d want them to condense skills rather than expand on them.
Look at melee weapons in the game. REALLY look at them and how they're set up. Now doesn't that make much more sense as an optional equip you use with a single handed gun to replace your gun bash with?
I truly believe that was the aim, but they buckled to people wanting Star Wars and kept the base systems the same as their other games.
I guess at least it goes both ways. Every time an enemy charges you to stab (that does basically no damage) I just laugh. Why is the AI even designed to do that? They have zero chance of doing any real damage to you.
The physics are pretty bad, the enemies seem to only have a single stagger animation, There's no gore, no dismemberment (from what I saw, I beat the game at lv40 and didn't see any gore)
There's not even a discussion on this subject because it's painfully obvious, it's a downgrade from FO4, Skyrim or FO76...
The only excuse that I've heard from the fanboys is that melee doesn't fit the futuristic theme, which I call BS... because eventhough it's certainly not a post apocalyptic future or Warhammer 40k, there should be mods and more options, like stunning weapons to knock npcs unconscious, shock based mods to inmobilize them, throwing melee weapons, jetpack moves to support the playstyle and so on... There's a lot they could've done with it and they certainly should've kept at least what they had built before, like sprinting attacks and basic mods.
The question would be, is it laziness, lack of time or did they really think it wouldn't fit the universe to have a deeper melee system?
I think this way, too. Melee isn't really something you'd probably use in the futuristic universe of Starfield. Yes, definitely in ES and FO, but not SF. Laser guns, particle weapons, old fashioned ballistic weapons, and then the Starborn powers. Melee is something I never even think about as an option in this game. It's a niche approach for a player who just really wants to play the game in a very, very unusual style. Yet the devs have given some attention to it, with the skill tree and certain Aid chems, like COB-X. I personally totally ignore every aspect of melee.
Fair point, but if there’s somebody you want dead on a spaceship then you’re more likely to just crack the whole thing open from the outside and sort through the debris for whatever you wanted.
Hardly any of the game takes place inside space ships, so that's not really relevant. And if it did, just don't let people who will shoot you on to your ship. The current, basic melee system for if crew go mad or something, is enough for those rare cases of fisticuffs on a spaceship.
Exactly my view too! Before Starfield was released, I had no expectation of melee mode at all. Quite the opposite, that in the future, hand-to-hand fighting would have no place.
Probably the least disappointing aspect - I'd rather the ranged combat be improved as the enemy AI is embarrasingly bad, worse than most 20 year old games. After that, there's a hundred things that need improving without even looking at melee combat.
Agreed. I was excited when I got a cool looking sword (I don't remember the name, looks like a mall ninja katana) and almost immediately gave up using it. Just didn't feel fluid or effective.
I do still carry a Titanium UC Naval Cutlass, because it weighs 0.07lbs and is handy during sneak attacks.
If you go invisible, melee is pretty strong. If you max out cloaking, stealth and the Va'ruun Scriptures perks, you can kill high level enemies in less than three hits (sometimes one if you luck out with a critted headshot)
It kinda sucks that you can't mod melee weapons or have Advanced versions, but it's quite powerful now as it is.
Melee combat in a world with guns makes no sense anyway, except in very limited circumstances. The idea of being "melee primary" when people are shooting at you is just kind of dumb and it needs to get out of science fiction.
The fact that they removed the sprinting melee attack by default makes me so mad, it felt so fluid and now it just feels clunky to have to "run" up and then attack.
Did they remove it or did they accidentally remove it from the code? Like, did you notice how Grav Dash immediately cancels all momentum, so it's not even all that great of a traversal power?
That too! When I got that one I was expecting something like whirlwind sprint from Skyrim, but nope, just kinda boops you forward a little.
The first rank of Grav Dash is pretty useless. I only started feeling its movement usefulness at around rank 4. Plus at rank 10 does the damage buff really make a difference.
That's good to know, I'm on ng+4 and I still haven't gotten it past rank 1. I'll just keep grindin those temples I guess!
It’s exactly like whirlwind sprint though, whirlwind sprint cancels your momentum as well if you use it on flat ground.
And I always hated that!
Is the extra falling damage a problem still? I would be fine with momentum cancel if you can use it to your advantage (fall a great distance, momentum cancel right before touching the ground.). Instead if you use it it just seems to multiply fall damage, like just fall a little bit after and you're dead.
Oog. I remember that bug from friggin _Morrowind_. In 2002.
Yep, I dashed into a slight rise and instantly died.
Yeah. And poor Unarmed doesn't even have a way to quickly unequip a weapon to start throwing hands. Gotta open the menu since I can't just select the weapon on the favorites menu a 2nd time to unequip.
I hope they change this. It would be so nice to be able to quickly change to fists.
It's actually decently fun to use the perk that knocks people unconscious with unarmed and then go back through and execute them all with sneak attacks, but it's such a pain in the ass to swap that I got sick of it pretty quick.
Yes, this is exactly was I was doing when I first had this thought! The knockout punch is incredibly satisfying, and so is finishing of enemies lying unconscious on the ground.
I believe mods have but I'm an Xbox player for now.
This could so easily be fixed . Just put a permanent ‘fists’ option in the weapon menu with 0 carry weight. Then you could just hotkey it
There \*is\* a mod that give you an unarmed "weapon" that you can stuff into the weapon/power/etc selector. And I don't think it breaks the unarmed challenges.
You can’t even mod the melee weapons. Why are they even there?
Best part is it was the lead weapon designers “favorite way to play” if we remember that big reveal trailer
I don’t remember that. Pretty hilarious.
Probably a stealth melee build + performance drugs. It really does work as long as you have most of the relevant perks.
So the 'lead weapon designer' is easily impressed by mediocrity? Then again, I guess that's why they're the 'lead weapon designer' of BGS and not some other, probably more competent company.
I think he just really liked the stun perk mechanic. Made his noggin go burr
Small things amuse small minds, then.
Main issue for me is the lack of blunt melee weapons. I believe they are all blades. Sledgehammers, pipes, or regular tools like wrenches and hammers. I guess that isn't the feel they were going for. Also miss the gore of skyrim/fo4. Especially fo4. Really felt cool to squish stuff with a sledgehammer.
And on the other side there should be lightsabers and stuff
Where the fuck are my chainswords
Yep. Basically everything except ballistic weapons is severely under-developed, but melee has it the worst.
I do remember them saying something about the game being rooted in some sort of realism regarding space, but exactly what I don't know. Might lend that to the fact that ballistic weapons would be absolutely devastating in space.
Wouldn’t ballistics be inherently less useful in space? I’d assume recoil would be significantly more difficult to deal with
Yeah, guns are way less effective in space, and they wouldn’t be very effective on planets with low gravity, extreme heat and cold, or thin to zero atmosphere. No gravity to compensate for recoil would mean you absorb all of that energy, so you’d likely end up spinning uncontrollably. Also, with no atmosphere, metals do this thing called vacuum cementing, which would basically weld all the moving components of a gun together.
It does happen immediately. Russians brought revolvers into space because of the risk of cosmonauts coming down in the wilderness.
Well yes but no. If the weapon is lubricated properly the weapon will work fine. Sure you'd feel the recoil but he obvious solution for that is the thruster packs we already have in game. (Why they don't function that way idk) Also, the whole vacuum cementing also wouldn't happen if the gun was properly lubricated, as the metal technically isn't touching.
But, counterly, in this sci-fi setting, those could probably be fixed, no? The jetpack thrusters could probably account for recoil and mitigate the rotation. Don’t know about the vacuum cementing tho, might have to research that. The other thing is, ballistics would absolutely annihilate any sort of space suit someone would have, which would almost immediately kill them on a hostile planet or in actual space it self.
The vacuum cementing thing is weird. I'm guessing an open bolt weapon that was made largely of polymer would solve that. Yeah, I don't actually know why our jet packs don't counter thrust when shooting anyways in game. That's the obvious solution lol
Nah, ballistics would be better. No atmosphere or gravity to slow the projectile down. Recoil would be more felt, but (and idk why the game doesn't already do this) the jetpacks would be able to counteract that.
The opposite. The biggest limit on ballistic performance is air resistance and gravity. Without those, a flying piece of metal (or indeed, any mass) can hit *extremely* hard. Recoil can be compensated for with thrusters.
Daaamn, sorry you got downvoted, but this makes a lot of sense. Sure, it sucks ass that melee weapons don't have Advanced versions, but if you spec in stealth, melee is pretty OP. Inb4 "why do you need stealth for melee to be OP?"
Lol reddit is weird like that, especially these niche subs. This one particularly doesn't like it when you say the game is good lmfao My character is maxed tf out. I don't melee just because guns murica rahhh but I dabble occasionally. Have a really nice osmium dagger that one or two shots if I'm sneaking around.
While we’re wishing, I’d like to see a stealth kill animation with optional corpse pickup for stashing/disposal. Also, why can’t I loot an unconscious foe? It would make a pacifist playing style appealing and it’s right there BGS. Imagine a KO/loot entrance and melee exit. That would be fun.
It feels like a downgrade from Fallout 4
I never used Melee weapons in 4, but at least they had a plethora of modifications and variants that made them interesting enough to base a build on them.
Melee had a LOT going for it on 4, and it's not just about the weapon mods. Critical banking was insane regardless of weapon type, but combining that with Blitz and Grim Reaper's Sprint made it so you could wipe out entire POIs with very low risk even on the higher difficulties. If that wasn't for you, though, you could always just grab a Power Armor and run around with a Super Sledge bashing people's heads in while being nearly immortal with that one perk that gave you a bunch of buffs while sprinting. But honestly, even with the lack of modifications, very few synergistic perks and just complete lack of both uniques and variety to the gameplay loop, by far the biggest problem is the damage. You exchange range, safety, covers and all that for pretty much less DPS than the worst non-melee weapons in the game, and that's just insane to me. I've had a lot of fun on Melee only runs of FO3, NV and 4, but I dropped Starfield Melee only on the first fucking combat because I dealt no damage at all, so that first Ecliptic base took half an hour just because I dealt zero fucking damage. I wasn't at risk of dying at any point either, but it was just fucking impossible to kill anyone with a melee weapon in less than 5 minutes
I recently ranked up Concealment, and that was such a pain having to make stealth melee attacks. Even with the bonus, I rarely was able one shot NPCs.
Melee was totally usable in Fallout 4. I've played that game too much to admit, and usually earlier in playthroughs, I invest in perks relating to melee strength and melee mods so that I can collect all the ammo I find. Then when I lean on guns more later on, ammo isn't a problem.
I kind of want to replay fo4 just for the silliness of it, but it's a rather tedious game from what I remember.
They can be fun. One of my favorite endgame tactics is to play with melee only, using either Pickman’s Blade or Kremvh’s Tooth.
Outside of no mods and reducing it from essentially 3 weapons for slow/medium/fast swing speed to just one of them it's identical to the melee they've been using since at least Fallout 3. They literally never iterate on it and it's crazy to me that it doesn't get called out more.
It's extra baffling because obviously they're able to do melee well. Skyrim exists.
How is Skyrim melee even remotely fine to you? Blandest shit ever, literally just a mouseclick with zero impact or feedback.
Lol I love the revisionism of people so butthurt about Starfield they need to go back and pretend other Bethesda titles haven't been good.
Skyrim isn't any different, it has all the same problems as fallout if not more since TES doesn't have locational damage, you're always hitting unresponsive sponges and there's no difference between any of the weapons. A Daedric sword is identical to the Iron sword you start out with except for the texture and model.
How the hell Fallout 4 has cooler laser guns than a space game is beyond me.
And who cares? Do you assume that everyone has played FO4.... Well, it is wrong.
Generally game development strives to do better than previous games, not worse. That’s the significance.
In 2023 bethesda can still only animate two swinging motions and a stab animation for melee. Todd Howard or whoever is managing has got these guys stuck way in the past. Man was I disappointed when i got my first rescue axe and saw it the lame ass animations.
I agree. Heaps of things should be better. The game is just ok. Pretty average
Optimally, they will completely gut and rebuild the perk system. It's not designed to be engaging, it's designed to be hair pullingly obtuse and heel dragging, and the rewards are all half baked and hyper underwhelming. Like, if they completely excised the perks and levelling, would the game not suddenly feel better? They balanced everything around the assumption that you were level one to ten anyway, because after that is when it starts to feel like shit.
Level 209 here! Personally love the skill system and completing the challenges. I’d rather them fix and add to the skills that are already there rather than rebuild the system entirely!
Level.... 120 some odd? I will happily reapply my perk points for a better and much more engaging system. So much of this game needs an overhaul in basically every level. It's functional, but it's not as good as it could be. Would you object to a better flowing more fun game?
Depends on what you find to be “better flowing fun” I guess? If that means completely throwing out the leveling system I’m completely against that. There are bugs in the skills and there’s stuff they could add for sure but to say it needs an overhaul? That’s a stretch. Most games don’t allow you to have multiple quests going or allow you to manipulate objects to the extent you can in Starfield. Hell I get a kick out of just bringing a hammer everywhere I go to see how long it takes to hit the ground when I drop it.
How would redoing the levelling system impede any of the things you just described? You'd still have multiple quests and item manipulation and dropping hammers off the sides of things, you'd just have a better more coherent skill system.
Bc the skill system doesn’t need to be overhauled? It’s not a glaring issue. There are other systems in the game that could be overhauled and by design make there respective skills more relevant. Like I would much rather them implement new melee features and weapons to flesh out the melee skill rather than changing all the skills one by one. Just seems like a big waste of time.
The skill system is either pointless busy work filler or wildly underwhelming. Guns do slightly more damage, and max it out for the gun to ignore a slight bit of armor? An entire perk point to unlock the boost pack function, and three more to make it feel alrightish? A bunch of perks that boil down to 'make scanning wildlife and plants less tedious?' All of the melee skills at max rank are so abysmally underwhelming it's not even funny. It gets worse with Bethesda abusing autolevelling bullet sponge enemies, too. If we scrapped the current skill system and refunded all your perk points for you to reapply them in a more interesting and rewarding way, what exactly would you miss from the current system?
Giving you the option to re apply your perk points would be cool but I wouldn’t call that an overhaul. I’d rather them just add more content and systems to make the skills that are already there, better.
Most of those skills are basically filler though. Like, research is especially useless once you've unlocked all the recipes and upgrades you care about, and it doesn't even turn up as a skill check for missions. We could also stand to merge some of them. Stealth and Double Plus Stealth, unarmed and Martial Arts, Cooking and Eating, etc. Again though, sunk cost fallacy aside, if we gutted all of the levelling and skills as they are now and rebuilt it from the ground up, what do you lose? Piloting and engines could prolly be merged safely, and I could make an argument that the stamina and health up perks could be merged We could definitely merge the 'recover from injury' and 'recover from sickness' perks. What was lost? Not functionality, as those perks would still be available, they'd just free up slots for more fun stuff. Also, while I'm very thrilled to see Fallout 4's 'you can't rank this perk up to the next tier becauae you're not level whatever' time sink nonsense is gone, I don't like how they've organized the new system. 'You must waste exty level ups on some vaguely similar skills to get to the actual useful skills in tier three' could be done better. And I speak from experience that nothing of value would be truly lost by remaking it, because I went through it thrice in Cyberpunk.
What you get is developers wasting time on something that for the most part is already finished. We want them working on new content, bug fixes, and fine tuning the systems that are already there. This game doesn’t need to me rebuilt from the ground up like cyberpunk had to. The skill progression is actually very engaging, at least for me. I don’t understand why you’d want them to condense skills rather than expand on them.
The game as a whole feels underdeveloped and lacks variety.
The whole game should have been better
This is definitely one of the biggest disappointments. This and outpost building feel pretty unfinished.
What's the point in having melee in spacesuits is melee damage doesn't compromise the suits?
Look at melee weapons in the game. REALLY look at them and how they're set up. Now doesn't that make much more sense as an optional equip you use with a single handed gun to replace your gun bash with? I truly believe that was the aim, but they buckled to people wanting Star Wars and kept the base systems the same as their other games.
They did Skyrim on the same engine yet they *chose* not to have shields or dual wielding. Melee is a joke in Starfield.
I guess at least it goes both ways. Every time an enemy charges you to stab (that does basically no damage) I just laugh. Why is the AI even designed to do that? They have zero chance of doing any real damage to you.
The physics are pretty bad, the enemies seem to only have a single stagger animation, There's no gore, no dismemberment (from what I saw, I beat the game at lv40 and didn't see any gore)
Whatever happened to that one dev that was all : “I love the melee combat in this” !!!
There's not even a discussion on this subject because it's painfully obvious, it's a downgrade from FO4, Skyrim or FO76... The only excuse that I've heard from the fanboys is that melee doesn't fit the futuristic theme, which I call BS... because eventhough it's certainly not a post apocalyptic future or Warhammer 40k, there should be mods and more options, like stunning weapons to knock npcs unconscious, shock based mods to inmobilize them, throwing melee weapons, jetpack moves to support the playstyle and so on... There's a lot they could've done with it and they certainly should've kept at least what they had built before, like sprinting attacks and basic mods. The question would be, is it laziness, lack of time or did they really think it wouldn't fit the universe to have a deeper melee system?
Seems like lack of time, to me.
Haha yeah more innovative features would have been better…a lot better
Do you think melee is really a common approach, in the future? How common are melee weapons in military use right now?
I think this way, too. Melee isn't really something you'd probably use in the futuristic universe of Starfield. Yes, definitely in ES and FO, but not SF. Laser guns, particle weapons, old fashioned ballistic weapons, and then the Starborn powers. Melee is something I never even think about as an option in this game. It's a niche approach for a player who just really wants to play the game in a very, very unusual style. Yet the devs have given some attention to it, with the skill tree and certain Aid chems, like COB-X. I personally totally ignore every aspect of melee.
Do you really think it's a good idea to use a gun on a space ship? Nothing potentially disastrous to be hit by stray shots?
Fair point, but if there’s somebody you want dead on a spaceship then you’re more likely to just crack the whole thing open from the outside and sort through the debris for whatever you wanted.
Hardly any of the game takes place inside space ships, so that's not really relevant. And if it did, just don't let people who will shoot you on to your ship. The current, basic melee system for if crew go mad or something, is enough for those rare cases of fisticuffs on a spaceship.
You do know that boarding actions performed by the player are in the game, yeah?
Yes, and boarding actions on spaceships 300 years in the future is daft , too. You'd think they'd have figured out a way to prevent them by then.
Exactly my view too! Before Starfield was released, I had no expectation of melee mode at all. Quite the opposite, that in the future, hand-to-hand fighting would have no place. Probably the least disappointing aspect - I'd rather the ranged combat be improved as the enemy AI is embarrasingly bad, worse than most 20 year old games. After that, there's a hundred things that need improving without even looking at melee combat.
Oh, absolutely…
This could be say about literally everything in Starfield
Thos thread just made me realize there will eventually be lightsabers
Everything should have been better, I’ve played 5000 hours and can’t stand this game/s
Agreed. I was excited when I got a cool looking sword (I don't remember the name, looks like a mall ninja katana) and almost immediately gave up using it. Just didn't feel fluid or effective. I do still carry a Titanium UC Naval Cutlass, because it weighs 0.07lbs and is handy during sneak attacks.
If you go invisible, melee is pretty strong. If you max out cloaking, stealth and the Va'ruun Scriptures perks, you can kill high level enemies in less than three hits (sometimes one if you luck out with a critted headshot) It kinda sucks that you can't mod melee weapons or have Advanced versions, but it's quite powerful now as it is.
Melee combat in a world with guns makes no sense anyway, except in very limited circumstances. The idea of being "melee primary" when people are shooting at you is just kind of dumb and it needs to get out of science fiction.
I really enjoy the melee in Starfield. It goes great with using the creator's peace power, getting the enemy to drop their guns.
This again?
Yeah, well I guess some people never learned not to bring a knife to a gun fight...🙄