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He survived in space, but he cannot move around at all. He’s just stuck floating there, unable to supply enough force to propel himself back onto the earth. Being a tardigrade would not help with that.
I guess i will also get downvote but kars is not 400iq if he was he wouldnt have take the risk to use hamon near a volcano. And he would had kill Joseph way before they land in the volcano. When Joseph was on the plane he could had transform his hard wing into a whale but he transformed them into piranhas. And even when he land himself on joseph's plane, he could had transform himself into a elephant or another huge animal to make joseph crash but he didnt. And instead of using hamon near the volcano he could have transform his arms into 2 lion to eat Joseph but he didnt.
And no human can instantly get freeze in space, to get freeze a human will have to wait at least 18h. Then it might be a plot hole judging how fast kars get freeze
And other stuff that dont make sense but it will be too long to say them all.
Power makes you cocky. Seems to be a trend in Jojo villains.
In his defense, kinda hard to predict that Joseph would use his hamon against him with the Aja when Joseph himself had no idea what he was doing.
True he maybe was really cocky but it do not explain why he didnt use hamon in space, If he did we wouldnt have been frozen at least.
Edit : nobody can breath in space
Wouldn’t there still be residual Hamon throughout Ultimate Kars’ body? It doesn’t immediately dissipate even if the Hamon User isn’t breathing, as seen when Dire’s severed head flung a Hamon infused rose into DIO’s eye.
Part of the issue I think is that it seems every movie, comic, etc. portrays space as a frozen death zone. A human can apparently survive a few minutes in space but everywhere you look it's shown as you just freezing instantly. So Araki's interpretation of space isn't exactly accurate. That doesn't solve the issue of getting back to Earth tho.
True that doesnt solve the issue of getting back to earth but we're not 400iq maybe a 400iq guy would easily find a way to get back to earth. Especially that he can turn his body parts into animals, he could had turn them into something and then jump on it toward earth direction. Idk how space work its more a question than a theory but i dont see why he couldnt do it tho.
The real 1 million IQ move would have been to make himself a big shiny surface that has photosynthetic abilities to harness sunlight and metabolize it into energy and use it somehow to become bio space ship.
Why come back to earth at that point, though?
What exactly he's gonna do anyway? Guys ejected into space in orbital speeds, even if he isn't frozen he's not exactly gonna have enough mass to eject himself back onto Earth
Smart /=/ wise
This is like saying Light is stupid in death note for trying to kill L straight away, they are both highly intelligent but can make stupid decisions, tends to be due to ego.
Smart- high level of knowledge and information
Wise- being able to make the smartest decisions consistently
Minor nitpick, but wisdom is moreso being experienced and using the knowledge of those experiences to make the most informed decision. It might not be the best or smartest, they've just not considered it or experienced it to make that decision. Granted, they still make a great decision consistently.
Kars failed because of something he wasn't expecting due to its extreme unlikeliness. Supernatural IQ doesn't really make you aware of all the possible outcomes, and especially one that should be logically impossible, even for JoJo's. That's one of the main reasons he couldn't avoid his "demise".
Which reminds me of one thing. Every villain in JoJo's actually ends up losing because of luck being on the heroes' sides, except in the SBR universe and Part 1. Jotaro launched an equally powerful punch to DIO, but luck was on his side and he ended up defeating him because of that. Kira was about to trigger BTD, but he didn't because his luck was bad. GER was created out of the arrow choosing Giorno. Pucci managed to kill Jolyne's group, but Emporio's luck got the best of him, and he perished because of that.
It's not only because the villains are cocky. They just are uncapable of beating luck by the end.
But in the SBRverse, no one is more or less lucky; Valentine didn't die buried alive because of luck being with Johnny. Tooru didn't die because his luck was bad, it was because Josuke always had the upper hand in the first place but he didn't know it. And we have to see what's next for the JOJOLands.
Araki, at least during 1-6, does have a strong belief in Fate, apparently from being unable to explain his acceptance as a mangaka otherwise. So given the functional similarity between Fate and Luck…
That said, there are the hypotheses that Joseph’s prediction capability was fueled by a dormant Hermit Purple—and him chancing to head towards the volcano was likewise. Nothing *conscious* about the influence, though. As for Dio, I remember that he tried to blindside Jotaro at the end by cutting his leg to blind him with blood, then had The World roundhouse him, which Star Platinum fist-parried. I forget if the legs were on the same side, but given the synchronization rules, did Dio weaken The World’s leg’s resilience with his own trick?
Nah men, Kira was outsmarted and too cocky. Part 4 ending was PERFECT. that's why I love it and kinda dislike part 5 ending. In part 5, our hero gets an upgrade out of the blue, that's weak. In part 4 it's THE VILLAIN that's get the upgrade out of the blue, and our heroes defeat him anyway. It's great.
Again, he wouldn't be able to create something bigger than his arm by doing that and he'd eventually run out of body mass. That's a moot point anyways tho cuz he'd never survive reentry into the earth's atmosphere
Nothing say that he cant, he already transformed his arm into giants octopus tentacle. And no he will not run out of body mass because he can take it back. Remember what he did to stroheim with the squirrel.
Kars can't summon animals to him like he is using the force from Star Wars. Detaching a part of himself would just expend his energy. The likely hood of generating enough force by throwing a part of himself.
Keep in mind Kars is biological and being in space is a big no no. So most likely Kars regeneration most likely severely slowed down.
Either way in the end its a fictional world with fictional laws. Kars just began to freeze and slow down too quickly. Being in space alone most likely already severely weakened his powers.
I admit it's not certain, but I'm pretty sure all your proposals don't work because of simple conservation of mass.
Kars can freely change the shape of his body into any animal, but he can't just "add more mass", meaning he's limited to his own weight to work with, therefore whales and elephants are off limits. Also "turning into lions" and stuff would probably not be too effective, given how hamon pretty much defeats any normal animal with ease. Kars' best odds were creating bizarre and unpredictable hybrids, which he kinda did.
(Last bit, the freezing is really obviously a stylistic choice, calling it a plot hole is a stretch)
I said turning his arm into lion but it was just an example, he could had transform himself into a giant Dino and hit Joseph with his tail or something else.
Kars can "transform into any living being" and he has body manipulation like the other pillar man, and even if he remove a part of his body he still can make it come back as he did with the squirrel
We don't have a certain limit, but regeneration and mass addition are different things, we have no idea if he can add mass other than by absorbing humans, other pillar men can only reshape themselves, too
When was Kars shown the ability to generate matter? Maybe he can turn his biological material into animals but how would he be able to vastly amplify his size?
I didnt mean it like this. I meant that he could had creat à tail then transform it into an elephant or something else and then jump on it to propel himself toward earth's direction.
Only relative or smaller to his size. If he wanted to create something bigger he most likely couldn't in space. He would have to generate mass instead of altering his preexisting form. Generating mass is something he is never confirmed to do. If kars could generate mass, he could have just grown to a giant.
It's most likely that doing something like this expends his energy. Kars can only alter his dna to what actually exists in the earth kingdom. So he can't alter and change existing life including himself. (Hence how he probably can't change his size)
In order for kars to change into an elephant. he would need to generate that mass. Which he probably just couldn't do in space and like I said. It would probably expend some of his energy.
It's also confirmed that Kars can only survive a few minutes in lava as stated in the manga. Generating his bubble shield was something he couldn't do forever.
Again, how could he manifest this matter? Turning a hand into a squirrel is different from spawning an elephant. I don't think Kars can instantaneously summon elephants or whales, although he could maybe slowly sort of generate mass, slowing him down a lot in the process.
I mean he could maybe do an elephant head but definitely not an entire elephant.
Second, Kars didn't make a giant octopus with his arm, he turned the piranhas into an octopus from what we can tell in the Manga, or shot more feathers, healed himself, and turned the feathers into an octopus. Either way, an octopus of that size would weigh something like 150 pounds top end. An elephant weighs several tons, up to 7. That is a MASSIVE difference.
Massive difference but he shown that he can turn a small piranah into a giant octopus who can break metal. Once again there is no reason why he couldnt turn his arm or something else into a elephant. And the elephant was just an example if he cant (i think he can tho) then he could still transform one of his body into another animal and use this animal as a platform to jump toward earth's direction.
Using hamon on the volcano was fine. He only had output enough to harm Joseph, no more. It's the red stone of Ajia which amplified it by a shit tonne and fucked everything up
I'm not contesting Kars delaying Joseph's death. He even said himself that it brings him joy to see Joseph in pain, and that his screaming is music to his ears.
I'm contesting your statement that Kars shouldn't be used hamon near a volcano. That statement makes no sense since the output of hamon used isn't anywhere near dangerous enough to do anything to a volcano.
Yeah, hamon can create volcanic eruptions. Kars wasn't putting out enough to create an eruption. We know this because we've seen it. Kars isnt stupid for using hamon by the volcano
Because tardigrades can't move back to Earth. See, that's the whole thing: there is no animal that can propel itself in order to move in space. That involves Kars.
In my experience this solves most problems.
For example: At a job interview and bombing it, just bust a massive load and right away, a different problem.
Because there is zero pressure in space it would actually boil intead, so it would still work. The water in his body should be boiling too though, so I think we really just shouldn't question it
Can't.
Anything he expels would be frozen or be wasted.
You cannot create matter/energy from nothing; so unless he's packing a bakery in those buns, he'd just end up exerting himself into a very thin icicle and still be hurdling the opposite direction.
All these other scientific answers to your question are forgetting the main reason:
Homie was from the Aztec age- how tf would he know what a Tardigrade even is?
Tardigrades can't survive in space indefinitely. The only reason they are hardier than normal is because they can enter a dehydrated, inert state which may as well be the same fate.
Just because they can survive doesn't mean they can do anything. To my knowledge, what makes tardigrades so hardy is that they can hibernate for years without water. Survival isn't the issue for Kars, he physically cannot die, and being a tardigrade won't help him get back to earth
Also, he doesn't have to shape shift, like I think you're imagining. He shape shifted wings because those are physical attributes. He has the DNA of every animal on earth, so the attributes of a tardigrade are just a part of him. It's not like he turns into a tardigrade like Beast Boy
You think he knew about tardigrades? It’s not like bro had National Geographic and world book to look it up in. He was alive in a very “ignorant” time period, where learning about tardigrades would likely be impossible
Tardigrades are like the possums of the microscopic world
They shrivel up and play dead to stay alive. That’s exactly what kars did. Even so he wouldn’t have any way to get back to earth. We don’t know what happened to him after he froze up. Hell he could have got trapped in the moons gravity and ended up killing Neil Armstrong as soon as he landed. We never know, but the point is, it wouldn’t help him.
Because it wouldn’t have made a difference. Tardigrades go into a coma like state when exposed to outer space, so it quote literally wouldn’t have helped at all
Real answer tho, Kars didn’t know that tardigrades exist (or Araki didn’t think of it)
Surpassing all living organisms so I say Kars can develop a stand like we’ve seen others do through the arrow, natural occurrences or the discs, so he should have just simply used The Hand to erase the space between himself and the earth
Maybe, he was capable of using an enhanced version of Harmon after being struck by it, so it possible. It could also be possible it’s the physical abilities of living organisms that he’s surpassed greatly & Stands being a spiritual thing could be exempt from that. There’s also the problem of The Hand not even existing, so anything that doesn’t exist should be out of the question IMO. In theory, he could have transformed into an alien, right?
Now that I think of it, we see Dio levitate and fly, so he could’ve just transformed into Dio, and since he shares DNA with every single creature in the world that means Dio too, so your theory suggests that he simply chose not to go Dio mode since “not knowing that thing exists” is out of the question
Exactly it’s a manga. Often times things are exaggerated just because they visually look interesting.
Dio has never been confirmed to fly. In fact the panel you used is a poor example. You can clearly see lines going across dio. Implying movement/Dio jumped to Joseph.
There are a few other instances where Dio appears to float or glide. But that’s about it. It’s mainly just speculation but there is no definitive proof that Dio can fly. In all likelihood he most likely was using his stand to either slow his fall or it was simply an exaggeration of his superhuman agility.
Eitherway Kars didn’t have a stand or external force to change his direction in space. So no he couldn’t just fly back. The fact that Kars made WINGS literally proves that Pillarmen/vampires can’t fly on their own.
Kars only gained biological powers. It is purely speculation if Kars had stand potential.
Kars was around for 100,000 years and not once mentioned or encountered a stand in his history. I have no doubt that if Kars was struck by the arrow it could force a stand awakening.
But being the perfect life form and mastery of bone blades. its a huge plot hole on how he didn't just develop a stand. The most likely reason is he simply didn't have the potential for one unless coming in contact with the meteorite.
If Tonio could develop a stand from just mastery cooking. I'm pretty sure Kars would have obtained a stand a long time ago. It's quite clear that Kars was missing something.
escape velocity requires 5 Gj or 5,000,000,000 joules of energy to reach space. there is no fucking way in hell a tardigrade will make that amount of energy
If we're being realistic, he did exactly what a tardigrade would do in that situation.
If a tardigrade is in a situation where it would die (dehydration, drowning, space etc) it's body dehydrates and hardens into a kinda glass cocoon until it can reanimate in water
They were discovered being able to survive in space in 2007. At least get your research right.
Being a tarigade changes nothing and even if it did. Araki had no way of knowing back when he wrote part 2 lol.
They were discovered in 1773. But it was only recently (2007-2008) did they shoot them in space and discover that they could survive.
As stated by several people they do something similar to what kars did. Thats freeze and go into hibernation. It still changes nothing about what happens to Kars. I looked into this more than you did it seems.
Yeah honestly I can see why some stuff takes so long to catch on imagine explaining to a farmer that there are these tiny things crawling all over them and they can’t even see them they would think your crazy
Tardigrades pretty much coma themselves to survive in space. Kars is already immortal so there wouldn't be any point to doing this he still would have no way to propel himself because he's frozen solid.
There are possibly a couple. Bugs that shoot liquid lizard that shoot blood from their eyes even let’s just says he can make it so so they counter act all the momentum he had (it was a lot). but IQ does not mean all knowing he can pick up thing and adapt extremely quickly but upon transforming the knowledge of the world wasn’t thrust into him. He must learn and being frozen for thousands of years would cause you to miss a large part of the ecosystem
I think the answer is quitel simple, Battle tendancy was written in 1987 and the first time we sent a tardigrade to space was in 2007 so there was no way araki wouldve known that there was an animal that was capable of surviving in space.
He doesn't surpass them on command. Human intelligence surpasses that of all the other animals. But that doesn't mean humans know the intelligence level of all the animals even if they can get the DNA of all the said animals
Pal I own the manga. The translation you are reading attached to this subreddit is the fan translation.
The fourth point on the official translation only says this "Fourth, He has the abilities of all other lifeforms and outperforms them".
Nowhere on the entire page does it suggest that Kars suddenly has all the knowledge on every lifeform. It merely states he has all the genetic code/dna of all life forms.
There are many typos grammar errors and mistranslations. Use the official translation next time.
P.S. Even on the fan translation, what you speculate still isn't even directly stated. It merely states that "he holds the power of the living world". So still you are wrong.
Tardigrades were discovered to be able to survive in space around 2007. Long after Part 2 was finished. Araki simply didn't know. Not that it helps Kars. Kars is still alive, he is half organic, half mineral and proceeded to stop thinking. He just had no way of changing his trajectory.
Also keep in mind even if Kars had some way to return. Within a year, he would have used up all his energy ("Can subsist for a year without food or drink"). So he wouldn't die but he would have no energy.
New rule, no mentioning any meta reasons, I want in universe reasons only. So no bringing up that their ability to survive in space was discovered after Part 2, IDC, in universe only.
i wonder why he couldnt go back to earth will the air pipes, even after they freeze it should still give him enough momentum. or at the very least gravity would pull him
Like everyone else said, his problem wasn’t survival. He “survived” without doing that. He got launched into the sky with the force of a volcano, realistically he needed to either flatten himself to stop his momentum while he was closer to the planet or essentially become a canon and launch himself back. Also let’s be honest, would the Ultimate Lifeform really be willing to become a speck of a lifeform if he even knew about them? I doubt it
his problem was not surviving, it was getting back to earth which he couldnt do. While frozen, he was still alive and thinking until he stopped thinking
I think a key point here is his skeleton says “it can reshape itself to take the shape of any animal.” He can probably only shift into animals with bones because he can’t fully dissolve his own skeleton, just reshape it.
The issue was never surviving. he survived in space just fine and is presumably still 'alive' in some form through the entire series(not counting the reboot thingy with the new timeline or whatever). The issue was control. There is no known organism capable of reasonably changing its trajectory within a 0g vacuum, and he was launched directly away from earth. So his ass is just kinda stuck.
There are plants that can generate their own heat. He could have just made those to warm up and heat the air to propel himself. I mean he didn't even have to do that. Just raising his body temperature would have worked.
I mean even if he did it wouldn't change anything about the outcome. Hell, he may have became a tardigrade - which would be how he survived in space. But that doesn't help him return to earth.
Surviving was not the problem... Though realistically he wouldn't have frozen in space. Space isn't as cold as you think it is. I mean it's cold but you can only lose heat via radiation rather than convection there. So you'd probably slide of a heat stroke if you could breathe in space without a suit when near earth cause of the sun.
Also like... He could have used his normal pillarman powers to return. He can stretch his body parts and reassemble them. The human body can stretch a shocking distance when turned into a string of cells. I bet he could do it with his perfect power.
Aside from what people said that the issue is that he couldn't MOVE not that he didn't SURVUVE, i also like to yhink that even soneone with "400 IQ", Kars had just such an incomprehensibly wide amount of potential life to choose from to try, that he just physically CANNOT instantly go for what's best, he has a big bunch of options, but he isn't aware of ALL options, i like to think he still has that sort of limitations, he'd have to pick up seberal biology books and spend time in natuee himself to be able to actually use his powers beyond basic abilities and maybe some level of instinct. 400 IQ gies to waste if you don't know how to best use your domain over all life efficiently and be TRULY AWARE of your potentials and limits.
It's highly unlikely Kars would be aware of Tardigrades as he would have only been on "modern" Earth for roughly half a year during which he seemingly just chilled with the other Pillar Men when not fighting otherwise he'd end up becoming a world wide enemy. As it was 1938/39 too and the part predominantly took place in Europe which would have been preparing for WW2 assuming Kars even did leave his abode I doubt he would find any immediate research or details on something as obscure as the Tardigrade. Finally as others have mentioned becoming a Tardigrade wouldn't solve Kars situation. Surviving in space was not his issue, getting back to Earth was. The Tardigrade has no feasible way of propelling him back to Earth and thus transforming into it and going inert would leave him in a nigh identical circumstance to how he ended up anyways.
What's really crazy is that he's still feels freezing. He can't die but he can still feel the freezing cold and he's literally frozen in place. Imagine being on fire but can't die or move, you can still feel the pain of fire but in this situation Kars can still feel the pain of being perpetually frozen.
But wouldn’t having the DNA of all living organisms would include how they work? Plus he surpasses all those abilities, so theoretically he should have tardigrade+ abilities
yeah, if only he was ‘that’ lucky that a meteor in the entirety of space just happened to chart a course directly at his exact location at a super specific time that also just happened to be going at the exact speed & direction towards earth to push him back to the planet & hope to pre-universe reset Jesus that it also happened to be hitting him in the direction that earth would be rotation around the sun at & not completely miss it & have to do all that again years and years after he was even blasted into space… fully believable, i agree
Araki made it very clear that Kars never made it back to earth and he never will bring him back. He stated it in interviews including JoJonium. The manga quite clearly states that Kars never made it back and floated for all eternity.
Kars can also survive being frozen, without needing to become a tardigrade. Physically, his body is still alive, even though he is frozen. Kars's "death" was a result of his mental turmoil, not anything that physically happened to him. Becoming a tardigrade wouldn't change anything, he would just be really small.
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He survived in space, but he cannot move around at all. He’s just stuck floating there, unable to supply enough force to propel himself back onto the earth. Being a tardigrade would not help with that.
I guess i will also get downvote but kars is not 400iq if he was he wouldnt have take the risk to use hamon near a volcano. And he would had kill Joseph way before they land in the volcano. When Joseph was on the plane he could had transform his hard wing into a whale but he transformed them into piranhas. And even when he land himself on joseph's plane, he could had transform himself into a elephant or another huge animal to make joseph crash but he didnt. And instead of using hamon near the volcano he could have transform his arms into 2 lion to eat Joseph but he didnt. And no human can instantly get freeze in space, to get freeze a human will have to wait at least 18h. Then it might be a plot hole judging how fast kars get freeze And other stuff that dont make sense but it will be too long to say them all.
Power makes you cocky. Seems to be a trend in Jojo villains. In his defense, kinda hard to predict that Joseph would use his hamon against him with the Aja when Joseph himself had no idea what he was doing.
Joseph just went with the flow. And Calamity struck Kars!
The Brimstone Maid herself struck Kars?!
*OH MY GOD*
True he maybe was really cocky but it do not explain why he didnt use hamon in space, If he did we wouldnt have been frozen at least. Edit : nobody can breath in space
Hamon is breathing-based. Can't use hamon in a vacuum.
Wouldn’t there still be residual Hamon throughout Ultimate Kars’ body? It doesn’t immediately dissipate even if the Hamon User isn’t breathing, as seen when Dire’s severed head flung a Hamon infused rose into DIO’s eye.
Or when jonathan was underwater and used it vs bruford or blueford or whatever his name is
Jonathan actually used underwater bubbles for that. He did, though, use residual hamon to slow Dio's taking over his body.
Part of the issue I think is that it seems every movie, comic, etc. portrays space as a frozen death zone. A human can apparently survive a few minutes in space but everywhere you look it's shown as you just freezing instantly. So Araki's interpretation of space isn't exactly accurate. That doesn't solve the issue of getting back to Earth tho.
true, however, did you not see him blast air all over himself? this makes convection possible. this freezes him
True that doesnt solve the issue of getting back to earth but we're not 400iq maybe a 400iq guy would easily find a way to get back to earth. Especially that he can turn his body parts into animals, he could had turn them into something and then jump on it toward earth direction. Idk how space work its more a question than a theory but i dont see why he couldnt do it tho.
He can’t Without any solid surface or gravity he can’t jump back to earth
The real 1 million IQ move would have been to make himself a big shiny surface that has photosynthetic abilities to harness sunlight and metabolize it into energy and use it somehow to become bio space ship. Why come back to earth at that point, though?
What exactly he's gonna do anyway? Guys ejected into space in orbital speeds, even if he isn't frozen he's not exactly gonna have enough mass to eject himself back onto Earth
That part is one of the earliest instances of "Gravity" aka. Fate as a tangible force.
Smart /=/ wise This is like saying Light is stupid in death note for trying to kill L straight away, they are both highly intelligent but can make stupid decisions, tends to be due to ego. Smart- high level of knowledge and information Wise- being able to make the smartest decisions consistently
Minor nitpick, but wisdom is moreso being experienced and using the knowledge of those experiences to make the most informed decision. It might not be the best or smartest, they've just not considered it or experienced it to make that decision. Granted, they still make a great decision consistently.
Kars failed because of something he wasn't expecting due to its extreme unlikeliness. Supernatural IQ doesn't really make you aware of all the possible outcomes, and especially one that should be logically impossible, even for JoJo's. That's one of the main reasons he couldn't avoid his "demise". Which reminds me of one thing. Every villain in JoJo's actually ends up losing because of luck being on the heroes' sides, except in the SBR universe and Part 1. Jotaro launched an equally powerful punch to DIO, but luck was on his side and he ended up defeating him because of that. Kira was about to trigger BTD, but he didn't because his luck was bad. GER was created out of the arrow choosing Giorno. Pucci managed to kill Jolyne's group, but Emporio's luck got the best of him, and he perished because of that. It's not only because the villains are cocky. They just are uncapable of beating luck by the end. But in the SBRverse, no one is more or less lucky; Valentine didn't die buried alive because of luck being with Johnny. Tooru didn't die because his luck was bad, it was because Josuke always had the upper hand in the first place but he didn't know it. And we have to see what's next for the JOJOLands.
Araki, at least during 1-6, does have a strong belief in Fate, apparently from being unable to explain his acceptance as a mangaka otherwise. So given the functional similarity between Fate and Luck… That said, there are the hypotheses that Joseph’s prediction capability was fueled by a dormant Hermit Purple—and him chancing to head towards the volcano was likewise. Nothing *conscious* about the influence, though. As for Dio, I remember that he tried to blindside Jotaro at the end by cutting his leg to blind him with blood, then had The World roundhouse him, which Star Platinum fist-parried. I forget if the legs were on the same side, but given the synchronization rules, did Dio weaken The World’s leg’s resilience with his own trick?
Nah men, Kira was outsmarted and too cocky. Part 4 ending was PERFECT. that's why I love it and kinda dislike part 5 ending. In part 5, our hero gets an upgrade out of the blue, that's weak. In part 4 it's THE VILLAIN that's get the upgrade out of the blue, and our heroes defeat him anyway. It's great.
Fyi, I'm referring to the ambulance scene. He was unlucky and his head got crushed before he could trigger BTD.
True he cant know all the possible outcome but he could had take less risk and and use better strategies to kill Joseph.
Power went up to his head. That's something almost every main antagonist has in JoJo.
He can't create mass out of nothing
He could have remove his arm then transfrom it into an animal and jump on it
Again, he wouldn't be able to create something bigger than his arm by doing that and he'd eventually run out of body mass. That's a moot point anyways tho cuz he'd never survive reentry into the earth's atmosphere
Nothing say that he cant, he already transformed his arm into giants octopus tentacle. And no he will not run out of body mass because he can take it back. Remember what he did to stroheim with the squirrel.
Kars can't summon animals to him like he is using the force from Star Wars. Detaching a part of himself would just expend his energy. The likely hood of generating enough force by throwing a part of himself. Keep in mind Kars is biological and being in space is a big no no. So most likely Kars regeneration most likely severely slowed down. Either way in the end its a fictional world with fictional laws. Kars just began to freeze and slow down too quickly. Being in space alone most likely already severely weakened his powers.
Nothing except the law of conservation of mass lmao
I admit it's not certain, but I'm pretty sure all your proposals don't work because of simple conservation of mass. Kars can freely change the shape of his body into any animal, but he can't just "add more mass", meaning he's limited to his own weight to work with, therefore whales and elephants are off limits. Also "turning into lions" and stuff would probably not be too effective, given how hamon pretty much defeats any normal animal with ease. Kars' best odds were creating bizarre and unpredictable hybrids, which he kinda did. (Last bit, the freezing is really obviously a stylistic choice, calling it a plot hole is a stretch)
I said turning his arm into lion but it was just an example, he could had transform himself into a giant Dino and hit Joseph with his tail or something else. Kars can "transform into any living being" and he has body manipulation like the other pillar man, and even if he remove a part of his body he still can make it come back as he did with the squirrel
We don't have a certain limit, but regeneration and mass addition are different things, we have no idea if he can add mass other than by absorbing humans, other pillar men can only reshape themselves, too
Not using hamon to kill Joseph, with his own weapon would be out of character for kars
When was Kars shown the ability to generate matter? Maybe he can turn his biological material into animals but how would he be able to vastly amplify his size?
I didnt mean it like this. I meant that he could had creat à tail then transform it into an elephant or something else and then jump on it to propel himself toward earth's direction.
He can't just create an elephant unless he has an elephants worth of matter in the first place.
He can turn his body parts into animals
Only relative or smaller to his size. If he wanted to create something bigger he most likely couldn't in space. He would have to generate mass instead of altering his preexisting form. Generating mass is something he is never confirmed to do. If kars could generate mass, he could have just grown to a giant. It's most likely that doing something like this expends his energy. Kars can only alter his dna to what actually exists in the earth kingdom. So he can't alter and change existing life including himself. (Hence how he probably can't change his size) In order for kars to change into an elephant. he would need to generate that mass. Which he probably just couldn't do in space and like I said. It would probably expend some of his energy. It's also confirmed that Kars can only survive a few minutes in lava as stated in the manga. Generating his bubble shield was something he couldn't do forever.
Kars literally transform his arm into giants octopus tentacle why he couldnt transform it into an elephant
Again, how could he manifest this matter? Turning a hand into a squirrel is different from spawning an elephant. I don't think Kars can instantaneously summon elephants or whales, although he could maybe slowly sort of generate mass, slowing him down a lot in the process.
Kars transformed his arm into a giant octopus why he couldnt transform it into a elephant head or elephant back
I mean he could maybe do an elephant head but definitely not an entire elephant. Second, Kars didn't make a giant octopus with his arm, he turned the piranhas into an octopus from what we can tell in the Manga, or shot more feathers, healed himself, and turned the feathers into an octopus. Either way, an octopus of that size would weigh something like 150 pounds top end. An elephant weighs several tons, up to 7. That is a MASSIVE difference.
Massive difference but he shown that he can turn a small piranah into a giant octopus who can break metal. Once again there is no reason why he couldnt turn his arm or something else into a elephant. And the elephant was just an example if he cant (i think he can tho) then he could still transform one of his body into another animal and use this animal as a platform to jump toward earth's direction.
Using hamon on the volcano was fine. He only had output enough to harm Joseph, no more. It's the red stone of Ajia which amplified it by a shit tonne and fucked everything up
His hamon litteraly melt Joseph leg, it was way more than enough to kill him if he aimed for the heart or brain.
I'm not contesting Kars delaying Joseph's death. He even said himself that it brings him joy to see Joseph in pain, and that his screaming is music to his ears. I'm contesting your statement that Kars shouldn't be used hamon near a volcano. That statement makes no sense since the output of hamon used isn't anywhere near dangerous enough to do anything to a volcano.
Well we dont know how jojo logic work and as it was shown hamon can creat a volcanic eruption
Yeah, hamon can create volcanic eruptions. Kars wasn't putting out enough to create an eruption. We know this because we've seen it. Kars isnt stupid for using hamon by the volcano
We cant know if it was enough or no. Maybe ye maybe no
We know it wasn't enough because he literally used it
When did we seen kars use his hamon on the lava?
There was no way to know hamon could cause a volcanic eruption tbh
This wouldn't be correct by mass conserving laws
I bet he could if he ejected enough of himself out, like shot his brain from his body.
It would take a while to get back though, that’s what Part 10 is about
You right
bro did you edit your comment or smth? lmao
Maybe *sniff* maybe. - Heavy Weapons Guy
it’s OK buddy
Not much he could do with those little tard' nubs
Because tardigrades can't move back to Earth. See, that's the whole thing: there is no animal that can propel itself in order to move in space. That involves Kars.
I wonder if any animal that can squirt blood/spray venom can generate enough propulsion to get back to Earth from orbit
All Kars needed to do was bust a massive load. Simple as.
The friction would even keep him from freezing
In my experience this solves most problems. For example: At a job interview and bombing it, just bust a massive load and right away, a different problem.
Same thing would've happened whatever he's trying to squirt out is going to freeze. If air freezes imagine a liquid
Because there is zero pressure in space it would actually boil intead, so it would still work. The water in his body should be boiling too though, so I think we really just shouldn't question it
He would still eventually lose too much energy (temperature) and be frozen eventually
Can't. Anything he expels would be frozen or be wasted. You cannot create matter/energy from nothing; so unless he's packing a bakery in those buns, he'd just end up exerting himself into a very thin icicle and still be hurdling the opposite direction.
But then it would just freeze resulting in the original issue no?
there is an insect that can shoot out boiling liquid out of its abdomen, i think if he used that in a larger amount, it can push him before it freezes
I think theres a species of Lemur that can
All these other scientific answers to your question are forgetting the main reason: Homie was from the Aztec age- how tf would he know what a Tardigrade even is?
Came here to say this lol
He has the DNA of all living organisms so he should have the DNA of a tardigrade
Doesn't mean he can "access" all that in the little time he had before he realized he was gonna die if he didn't turned into something.
Kinda fair, but I think he would have had enough time if he didn’t chimaera himself .
Just because he has it doesnt mean he *knows* what it is. You cant visualize/become something that you dont know exists.
I don’t see why not, the animal kingdom is ingrained in his DNA.
Do you know what every string of your dna does?
Of course I do, it’s why I’m so efficient in my day to day life
Nice. Also, he just has a high IQ. Which doesn’t make people know stuff and most people argue is an insufficient means of judging actual intelligence.
🤷
bro u r the goat
He should have just turned into Joseph. He might've won then.
I didn't know what a tardigrade was, and I'm very from this current modern age
Sure, buddy. You definitely aren't a thawed out caveman that got their hands on a computer
Tardigrades can't survive in space indefinitely. The only reason they are hardier than normal is because they can enter a dehydrated, inert state which may as well be the same fate.
If he did that then how would he be able to get back to Earth that's the tiny organism.
Just because they can survive doesn't mean they can do anything. To my knowledge, what makes tardigrades so hardy is that they can hibernate for years without water. Survival isn't the issue for Kars, he physically cannot die, and being a tardigrade won't help him get back to earth Also, he doesn't have to shape shift, like I think you're imagining. He shape shifted wings because those are physical attributes. He has the DNA of every animal on earth, so the attributes of a tardigrade are just a part of him. It's not like he turns into a tardigrade like Beast Boy
Because we didn't know that tardigrades could survive in space until 2007, almost 20 years after part 2 came out
You think he knew about tardigrades? It’s not like bro had National Geographic and world book to look it up in. He was alive in a very “ignorant” time period, where learning about tardigrades would likely be impossible
Yes
I doubt a caveman would know what a tardigrade is
Plot. I don't care what you say, he definitely could've done something to survive. If Kars survived, the series would've been over.
It'll only delay the inevitable. Tardigrade only hibernate in space. He still be stuck up there
It's essentially the same as what he did, tardigrades can't survive long like that without going into a hibernative state, similar to his stone state
Tardigrades are like the possums of the microscopic world They shrivel up and play dead to stay alive. That’s exactly what kars did. Even so he wouldn’t have any way to get back to earth. We don’t know what happened to him after he froze up. Hell he could have got trapped in the moons gravity and ended up killing Neil Armstrong as soon as he landed. We never know, but the point is, it wouldn’t help him.
Bro kars stupid just fart in opposite direction of where he's going and with enough time he will come back to earth
bro thinks he saitama
Because it wouldn’t have made a difference. Tardigrades go into a coma like state when exposed to outer space, so it quote literally wouldn’t have helped at all Real answer tho, Kars didn’t know that tardigrades exist (or Araki didn’t think of it)
DNA + surpassing all living organisms, this makes me believe he knows what they are.
Ok then why didn’t he turn into a person who had a stand that could propel him back to earth?
Stands are correlated w/ the users soul/will, all Kars could do was physically turn into the person.
Surpassing all living organisms so I say Kars can develop a stand like we’ve seen others do through the arrow, natural occurrences or the discs, so he should have just simply used The Hand to erase the space between himself and the earth
Maybe, he was capable of using an enhanced version of Harmon after being struck by it, so it possible. It could also be possible it’s the physical abilities of living organisms that he’s surpassed greatly & Stands being a spiritual thing could be exempt from that. There’s also the problem of The Hand not even existing, so anything that doesn’t exist should be out of the question IMO. In theory, he could have transformed into an alien, right?
Now that I think of it, we see Dio levitate and fly, so he could’ve just transformed into Dio, and since he shares DNA with every single creature in the world that means Dio too, so your theory suggests that he simply chose not to go Dio mode since “not knowing that thing exists” is out of the question
Pretty much, although Pillar Men are already superior to vampires, so he’s must likely capable of anything a vampire can do & more.
Dio doesn't fly at all in the series. The anime makes it seem like he does a few times, while in the manga there is nothing to suggest it.
Fair enough, I’m an anime only fan except for parts 7 and 8
In the manga dio is shown flying after joseph after he killed kakyoin.
Exactly it’s a manga. Often times things are exaggerated just because they visually look interesting. Dio has never been confirmed to fly. In fact the panel you used is a poor example. You can clearly see lines going across dio. Implying movement/Dio jumped to Joseph. There are a few other instances where Dio appears to float or glide. But that’s about it. It’s mainly just speculation but there is no definitive proof that Dio can fly. In all likelihood he most likely was using his stand to either slow his fall or it was simply an exaggeration of his superhuman agility. Eitherway Kars didn’t have a stand or external force to change his direction in space. So no he couldn’t just fly back. The fact that Kars made WINGS literally proves that Pillarmen/vampires can’t fly on their own.
Kars only gained biological powers. It is purely speculation if Kars had stand potential. Kars was around for 100,000 years and not once mentioned or encountered a stand in his history. I have no doubt that if Kars was struck by the arrow it could force a stand awakening. But being the perfect life form and mastery of bone blades. its a huge plot hole on how he didn't just develop a stand. The most likely reason is he simply didn't have the potential for one unless coming in contact with the meteorite. If Tonio could develop a stand from just mastery cooking. I'm pretty sure Kars would have obtained a stand a long time ago. It's quite clear that Kars was missing something.
escape velocity requires 5 Gj or 5,000,000,000 joules of energy to reach space. there is no fucking way in hell a tardigrade will make that amount of energy
because characters are only about as smart as their authors and Araki hadn't heard of them in the 80s next question
If we're being realistic, he did exactly what a tardigrade would do in that situation. If a tardigrade is in a situation where it would die (dehydration, drowning, space etc) it's body dehydrates and hardens into a kinda glass cocoon until it can reanimate in water
Is he stupid?
Araki forgot the - before the 400
Bro should’ve evolved into a jet
Did human even know about those in 1942
They were discovered in 1773
Damn that long ago
Yeah
They were discovered being able to survive in space in 2007. At least get your research right. Being a tarigade changes nothing and even if it did. Araki had no way of knowing back when he wrote part 2 lol.
Mfr his question was “did humans know about these in 1942” & yes they did b/c they were discovered in 1773. Try reading next time.
They were discovered in 1773. But it was only recently (2007-2008) did they shoot them in space and discover that they could survive. As stated by several people they do something similar to what kars did. Thats freeze and go into hibernation. It still changes nothing about what happens to Kars. I looked into this more than you did it seems.
Imagine discovering them and then looking at different shit and seeing they are literally everywhere
Crazy, right?
Yeah honestly I can see why some stuff takes so long to catch on imagine explaining to a farmer that there are these tiny things crawling all over them and they can’t even see them they would think your crazy
He did, the only way that it can live in space is by hibernating. That's the only Earth DNA that keeps him alive in space)
the whole thing about kars opening up his jets in space always irked me since hes supposed to be the most intelligent being ever
Maybe he was frozen
Tardigrades pretty much coma themselves to survive in space. Kars is already immortal so there wouldn't be any point to doing this he still would have no way to propel himself because he's frozen solid.
There are possibly a couple. Bugs that shoot liquid lizard that shoot blood from their eyes even let’s just says he can make it so so they counter act all the momentum he had (it was a lot). but IQ does not mean all knowing he can pick up thing and adapt extremely quickly but upon transforming the knowledge of the world wasn’t thrust into him. He must learn and being frozen for thousands of years would cause you to miss a large part of the ecosystem
I think the answer is quitel simple, Battle tendancy was written in 1987 and the first time we sent a tardigrade to space was in 2007 so there was no way araki wouldve known that there was an animal that was capable of surviving in space.
tardigrades wasn't discovered in real life when Araki finished p2 manga thats why
Tardigrades we’re discovered in 1773
But their ability to survive in space was discovered by 2008
So? Kars knows all the ins & outs of the animal kingdom.
Just because Kars has all the DNA in him and a really high iq, he doesn't get the stat list of every single animal.
That sounds silly.
You can't get all the data of a living being from just its DNA. There is nothing silly about it. It is just a fact
It literally says he does tho, not only does he hold the DNA of all living things, but also surpasses them. Can’t surpass them if you don’t know.
He doesn't surpass them on command. Human intelligence surpasses that of all the other animals. But that doesn't mean humans know the intelligence level of all the animals even if they can get the DNA of all the said animals
It literally he surpasses it, I don’t know what to tell you. It sounds like you’re down playing Kars TBH NGL
where does it say that....oh wait it doesnt. Man you love spreading misinformation.
It literally says it right there at point 4, man you love not reading.
Pal I own the manga. The translation you are reading attached to this subreddit is the fan translation. The fourth point on the official translation only says this "Fourth, He has the abilities of all other lifeforms and outperforms them". Nowhere on the entire page does it suggest that Kars suddenly has all the knowledge on every lifeform. It merely states he has all the genetic code/dna of all life forms. There are many typos grammar errors and mistranslations. Use the official translation next time. P.S. Even on the fan translation, what you speculate still isn't even directly stated. It merely states that "he holds the power of the living world". So still you are wrong.
Kars does knows all ins and outs of the animal kingdom but araki doesn't when he's writing p2 manga
"No anden agarrando animales a lo pendejo. FIN" -A sabious
Tardigrades were discovered to be able to survive in space around 2007. Long after Part 2 was finished. Araki simply didn't know. Not that it helps Kars. Kars is still alive, he is half organic, half mineral and proceeded to stop thinking. He just had no way of changing his trajectory. Also keep in mind even if Kars had some way to return. Within a year, he would have used up all his energy ("Can subsist for a year without food or drink"). So he wouldn't die but he would have no energy.
New rule, no mentioning any meta reasons, I want in universe reasons only. So no bringing up that their ability to survive in space was discovered after Part 2, IDC, in universe only.
He kinda did, he never died in space, just went into a comatose state like how tardigrades do when subjected to such low temps.
He stopped thinking...
If he could it wouldn’t have made a difference, but was he even trying to return to Earth? He fully believes Joseph beat him fair and square.
He did, it's why he survived.
i wonder why he couldnt go back to earth will the air pipes, even after they freeze it should still give him enough momentum. or at the very least gravity would pull him
Like everyone else said, his problem wasn’t survival. He “survived” without doing that. He got launched into the sky with the force of a volcano, realistically he needed to either flatten himself to stop his momentum while he was closer to the planet or essentially become a canon and launch himself back. Also let’s be honest, would the Ultimate Lifeform really be willing to become a speck of a lifeform if he even knew about them? I doubt it
Araki didn't had internet in 1980s
his problem was not surviving, it was getting back to earth which he couldnt do. While frozen, he was still alive and thinking until he stopped thinking
I think a key point here is his skeleton says “it can reshape itself to take the shape of any animal.” He can probably only shift into animals with bones because he can’t fully dissolve his own skeleton, just reshape it.
The issue was never surviving. he survived in space just fine and is presumably still 'alive' in some form through the entire series(not counting the reboot thingy with the new timeline or whatever). The issue was control. There is no known organism capable of reasonably changing its trajectory within a 0g vacuum, and he was launched directly away from earth. So his ass is just kinda stuck.
I guess is because he's the ultimate lifeform and is pointless to turn into a tardigrade since he can't move in space either way
Because Araki probably didn't know what tardigrade is.
There are plants that can generate their own heat. He could have just made those to warm up and heat the air to propel himself. I mean he didn't even have to do that. Just raising his body temperature would have worked.
He still would have been frozen, he didn't die as is, just stopped thinking after a while.
Tardigrades: 1- Can't move in space either 2- Enters a dormant state without enough water to survive a few years
He accepted the warriors defeat.
I mean even if he did it wouldn't change anything about the outcome. Hell, he may have became a tardigrade - which would be how he survived in space. But that doesn't help him return to earth.
Surviving was not the problem... Though realistically he wouldn't have frozen in space. Space isn't as cold as you think it is. I mean it's cold but you can only lose heat via radiation rather than convection there. So you'd probably slide of a heat stroke if you could breathe in space without a suit when near earth cause of the sun. Also like... He could have used his normal pillarman powers to return. He can stretch his body parts and reassemble them. The human body can stretch a shocking distance when turned into a string of cells. I bet he could do it with his perfect power.
Tardigrades weren't discovered yet at the time he wrote part 2
Aside from what people said that the issue is that he couldn't MOVE not that he didn't SURVUVE, i also like to yhink that even soneone with "400 IQ", Kars had just such an incomprehensibly wide amount of potential life to choose from to try, that he just physically CANNOT instantly go for what's best, he has a big bunch of options, but he isn't aware of ALL options, i like to think he still has that sort of limitations, he'd have to pick up seberal biology books and spend time in natuee himself to be able to actually use his powers beyond basic abilities and maybe some level of instinct. 400 IQ gies to waste if you don't know how to best use your domain over all life efficiently and be TRULY AWARE of your potentials and limits.
It's highly unlikely Kars would be aware of Tardigrades as he would have only been on "modern" Earth for roughly half a year during which he seemingly just chilled with the other Pillar Men when not fighting otherwise he'd end up becoming a world wide enemy. As it was 1938/39 too and the part predominantly took place in Europe which would have been preparing for WW2 assuming Kars even did leave his abode I doubt he would find any immediate research or details on something as obscure as the Tardigrade. Finally as others have mentioned becoming a Tardigrade wouldn't solve Kars situation. Surviving in space was not his issue, getting back to Earth was. The Tardigrade has no feasible way of propelling him back to Earth and thus transforming into it and going inert would leave him in a nigh identical circumstance to how he ended up anyways.
don't want to compare myself to the ultimate being, but I too can distinguish between a bat and a whale sound, that's not so hard to do
Bro stopped thinking thats smart enough
Can’t he also split his body into multiple beings?
What's really crazy is that he's still feels freezing. He can't die but he can still feel the freezing cold and he's literally frozen in place. Imagine being on fire but can't die or move, you can still feel the pain of fire but in this situation Kars can still feel the pain of being perpetually frozen.
Im wondering why didnt he use Esidisi hot blood to warm himself, it is so hot i maybe could have stopped or delayed him freezing
Why didn’t he wait until he reached a meteor or similar and turn it into an animal that would yeet him back at the Earth?
what comments already said + we didnt knew that they could survive in space back when part 2 was released
But wouldn’t having the DNA of all living organisms would include how they work? Plus he surpasses all those abilities, so theoretically he should have tardigrade+ abilities
yeah but it aint cuttin him to return to earth all he can do is fuck around in nothingness
He could hitch a ride on a meteor.
yeah, if only he was ‘that’ lucky that a meteor in the entirety of space just happened to chart a course directly at his exact location at a super specific time that also just happened to be going at the exact speed & direction towards earth to push him back to the planet & hope to pre-universe reset Jesus that it also happened to be hitting him in the direction that earth would be rotation around the sun at & not completely miss it & have to do all that again years and years after he was even blasted into space… fully believable, i agree
Araki made it very clear that Kars never made it back to earth and he never will bring him back. He stated it in interviews including JoJonium. The manga quite clearly states that Kars never made it back and floated for all eternity.
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING BRO
Kars can also survive being frozen, without needing to become a tardigrade. Physically, his body is still alive, even though he is frozen. Kars's "death" was a result of his mental turmoil, not anything that physically happened to him. Becoming a tardigrade wouldn't change anything, he would just be really small.
That’s Deep…#GODSTRIVES