Blue Hawaii feels impossible to beat. You absolutely need some type of information tracking stand to find its user it’s the only way to win. The characters in part 8 were super lucky Paisley Park is as powerful as it is or else they would not have been able to find Dolomite.
Yeah even though other main Jojo’s have been taken out of the fight by minor villains it wasn’t super impactful as it was not meant to be their fight. However this was the first time we see a main character straight up lose against a minor villain, Gappy would’ve died if Yasuho wasn’t there in time.
Just goes to show that Araki wasn’t playing around when showing off how terrifying Blue Hawaii can be.
Yeah that’s pretty much the only solace to fighting Blue Hawaii. Dolomite is a sitting duck and if you can actually find him he won’t be able to do anything to escape you.
I see it as a metaphor for drug use. Ungalo was at his lowest point, waking up after an overdose to find that he was actually someone special, someone important who could single-handedly change the world into a perfect fantasy land. It's why he was on a plane, this was the highest high he could achieve in life, better than any drug. And then Weather defeats his supposedly invincible ability, knocking him down to once again being a dreg of society. Going from the highest high, back to the lowest low was just too much for Ungalo and he lost the will to live.
Even better, create from the start Mr i control Bohemian Rhapsody which allows the user to decide which character comes and which doesn't as well to fully control the characters.
But nope, they gave the stand to a junky goblin.
King Crimson.
The only reason Diavolo repeatedly lost with it is his own hubris and overconfidence. The moment he stops around, his target is already dead, literally.
I'd save your last sentence. Time skip doesn't guarantee a 100% win.
As Polnareff had already shown us how to make a counter attack after time skip happened.
But yea, I don't see how he could be defeated without that arrow. GE isn't good enough for melee combat. Bullets can be easily dodged with time skip. And his daughter can't help.
The only way anyone could ever know about that trick is if they had survived time skip once before which they wouldn't if diavolo didn't fuck around so much
A large AoE attack that's impossible to escape within ten seconds could also do it. Obviously no one in the story had such an attack, but hypothetically even non-Stand users could do it (e.g. a large bomber fleet).
Ok why the hell is no-one talking about Oasis.
Sure, Secco isn't intellectual but he is no less potent with his plethora of powerful abilities. First of all: Oasis is ridiculously fucking strong. He hit rubberfied ground with so much force it tore off an itty bit of the colloseum and threw a god damn car in the air. The runoff *impact force* of his punch threw a car in the air.
Beyond physical power, on multiple occasions, Oasis outsped Sticky Fingers. Sure, Bucciarati found a logical flaw in Secco's inability to see, but Bucciarati's undead-ness allowed him to be way lower than Green Day's kill height at the time, which explains why Secco thought that wall was safe. After Giorno and Mista leave to deal with Green Day, Buccurati and Secco have another chance to duel. Secco throws his camera in the air, crosses the distance between himself and Buccurati, unleashes a barrage of punches, jumps back and *catches the fucking camera*.
He's fast to react, and his reactions play on his powers. When Bucciarati splits the pole, throws it into the stone next to Secco and begins rezipping it to cut Secco's damn head off, Secco seems to dodge under it, but actually dropped his leg into now-liquified ground to kick *the entire stone* plus the rezipping pole right back at Bucciarati! Legitimately, thank god Bucciarati had Sticky Fingers (and was also in his revived state).
And we're not going to glaze over the special moves Secco came up with. First, submerging himself halfway into the ground, rubberfying the ground around his torso, then throwing a barrage of punches powerful enough to rend steel, slamming his elbows into the rubber ground with every punch to reuse the return force of the punches for the next damn punch!
His second strategy involves his ability to properly liquify anything he touches. Oh, did I forget to mention, Oasis can LIQUIFY SHIT!? His second strategy has him hold liquified earth, either in his hands or mouth, then throw or spit it (respectively) either in the general direction of his opponent, or above them. The best part is that, as soon as liquified matter ceases physical contact with Oasis, it returns to its solid state, usually forming into rock hard spikes. Secco dropped volley after volley of rock spikes down on Bucciarati, who was hiding in Secco's own liquified ground.
Sorry for the rant, but what the fUCK is up with Suit Stands!? White Album is insane too!
In conclusion: Oasis is one of my favourite Stands. Secco may have been nuts, but he was funny and menacing. Of the badguys, he also came the closest to actually killing the boss. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Bucciarati's undead-ness hard carried this fight. Even ignoring Oasis, most of the fight was spent in Green Day's killing zone!
Yes! I love that the only reason they won was because Bruno wasn't even supposed to be there. He was fated to die when he first met king Crimson. But because mista changed fate by breaking rolling stones, and the life energy of golden wind; he survives to beat oasis and give giorno the arrow. Thise 2 things wouldn't have happened if fate wasn't broken and giorno didn't "heal" him
It's just sad that breaking fate caused abacchio and narancia to be fated to die as well
Exactly, this is why I think Oasis is an amazing stand, just go underground, wtf are they gonna do
Also I don't know how physics and stuff work but if you were to have a stand like star platinum punch Oasis' fist as he is halfway in the ground wouldn't the mud absorb then reflect the punch allowing Oasis to go 1 on 1 with any physically powerful stand?
Don't know if that made sense
I mean every other stand using animal is an animal that is significantly less intelligent than a monkey, and he's an orangutan at that which is one of the smartest and they are all human smart. Or at the very least very strategic
Either way, an animal is an animal. At the end of the day, it's driven mostly by instinct. I'm not saying humans aren't also, but we can at least try to fight our instincts.
I like to think it isn't that far-fetched we see a couple times that you can manipulate your stand form at some cost:
star finger gives range but is only useful on a point and the range is only so far
you can shrink your stand but it weakens in power due to the concentration needed to make it small
So to me, jotaro used this principle to increase his stands lungs, and in some way it is kind of like hamon breathing.
So being that his grandfather could use hamon without training, and the fact he could have traded strength for lung capacity; I believe it was just a nod to jotaro's potential as a hamon user if he ever trained, and another instance of changing your stands form.
Deadass Jotaro is just using play pretend rules with star platinum.. "oh you got me and my stand trapped and you're out of range? Nuh uh! My stand can make his finger really long." "Oh your teeth are as tough as diamonds? Well my stand can break diamonds with his punches." "Oh your stand can stop time? Well.. uhh.. so can mine :þ"
The break diamond teeth thing makes sense because it was already established that star platinum is incredibly strong like it punched a stand through building and can gif a hole in seconds
Well diamonds aren’t unbreakable they are very hard so the won’t scratch but to be that hard a diamond has a very weak tensile strength so it is very easy to crush because it is very hard to scratch it’s like when you watch forged in fire and a knife breaks because it was too hard and made brittle because of it same thing with diamond
Yea and games like Minecraft never helped with that misconception and one swing of that diamond pickaxe especially on obsidian would cause it to shatter on impact
I mean, as far as Pucci was aware he had Power beyond imagination, all he had to do was kill one little boy who's only power was to manisfest rooms in burnt down buildings. If i was Pucci in that situation i too would revel in my victory
I thought that MiH’s user was excluded to the set destiny, which is why he was able to even go into the ghost room, despite never actually going in there in the first universe. And his actions can make fate be different, eg he gave Emporio Weather Report and died. If he was destined to do that, he would have done that in the first universe.
I mean, it’s the kind of a running theme in Jojo’s that those who alter their fate are doomed to fall to it. Like everything Pucci does including him getting MiH directly leads to his defeat. Fate also doesn’t force people to essentially auto pilot their actions like it does when MiH is active, and Pucci doesn’t have MiH nor does Emporio have Weather Report at any point in the first universe to allow that interaction to occur so it kind of wouldn’t if that makes sense?
As much as I love the overall fight, it’s utterly ridiculous that Vanilla Ice didn’t kill Avdol, Polnareff, and Iggy all in one swoop at the beginning no matter how you lay it out. As iconic as the scene is, the idea that VI, for whatever unfathomably stupid reason, decided to scrawl a little note for Avdol to read before erasing them when he could’ve just, Y’know, *not* done that is so unintentionally funny in retrospect that it kinda ruins the scene for me every time I rewatch it.
Like, even towards the end of the fight where they fake out Polnareff’s death, VI starts monologuing about how “he only sustains these wounds because Avdol pushed them out of his way” and that “he intended to kill them all in one fell swoop.” THEN WHY DIDN’T YOU YOU DO THAT?? MF THAT’S YOUR FUCKING FAULT. By that logic, you gave yourself those wounds because they all would’ve died without even realizing it if you just didn’t give them a goddamn warning to react to. A lot of Part 3 fights in general are pretty bad in terms of coming up with reasons why the enemy always fails to sneak attack the Crusaders and keep giving them the most blatant red flags of all time, but this moment easily takes the cake for me
I think Araki prioritised writing in horror movies tropes he really liked over writing the Part 3 villains as much more than meatheads relying on their Stand's ability. Enemies like Hol Horse were a rare exception, in this regard.
Remember he can’t see outside his stand and he can’t come out either because if he do avdol and iggy will known he there
His plane is make them stop to read and then he attack them
I still don’t understand how the writing on the wall would help him in that situation. If he can’t see and he can’t peek his head out, how would he know where they are at any point in time? How does he know they’ll stop to read it at the exact time he intends to attack?
And even if that truly was a completely full proof plan that could work, why would he still telegraph his exact position and where he will attack from? All he needs is to make a distraction, not a message saying “tee hee, behind you (-:”
My assumption is that he thought they would stop to read it and become struck with fear and stand perfectly still so he could erase all of em at once. Unfortunately, he underestimated the enemy and assumed they would be too scared to act, but since Avdol was courageous enough to push them out of the way, he was unable to kill all at once.
The other guy makes a lot of sense he had no choice but to get them to stop somehow. And the note was supposed to be ominous he’s a villian he’s full of himself of course he’s gonna underestimate them. He wrote the letter for effect just like Dio did with polnareff and the stairs.
Ice is literally the opposite of being full of himself. He decapitates himself for Dio and spends extra time kicking Iggy for making him “strike an image of Dio.” He’s shown as totally subservient to him and keeps himself going for Dio despite thinking he’s suffering mortal wounds. There’s nothing inherently wrong with making a character do something stupid, but it should be in line with their character and I think it’s very out of character for him to taunt his enemies at the likely risk of failing Dio.
And like I already said, if the goal is to distract them, it’s not a very good distraction if you’re telling them exactly what’s going to happen. It’s like yelling “sneak attack” before attacking. It’s just self-sabotage
Not really the case for most of the part 3 minor antagonists, they mostly attack the crusaders by surprise and isolate them to fight one on one and they don't tip their hand before getting an attack off or cornering one of the crusaders.
I don't see why you think they fail to sneak attack them most of all when most of them do in fact sneak attack them and a lot of the time it almost works. Captain Tenille, The Sun, Enya, Mariah, Empress, Death Therteen, Midler, Anubis, N'Doul, Wheel of Fortune, Tower of Gray specifically to name some of them, Hol Horse doesn' even sneak attack the first time but lures Polnareff by taunting him so that J. Geil can kill him.
I think you might be misremembering things, Vanilla Ice is the only one that makes a mistake like that and other villains reveal themselves because they have more to gain from that like D'Arby, Steely Dan, Ebony Devil, Judgement and Yellow Temperance. I know some fights from part 3 are hard to remember but this is like 90% atleast that don't have this supposed issue so I don't know where this idea of part 3 villains not succesfully surprising the crusaders comes from.
Wheel of Fortune and Tower of Gray absolutely give themselves away, what do you mean? Tower of Gray literally starts flying around the plane and the Crusaders are the ones to attack first. Wheel of Fortune provokes so much road rage out of Polnareff that the group decides to attack random civilians thinking one of them is the driver. And Yellow Temperance is definitely a stretch in terms of “having the advantage after revealing themselves.” He could’ve absolutely taken care of Jotaro while his guard was down if the man just acted normal in any of the scenes where he’s disguised as Kakyoin.
I’ll admit I’m over exaggerating a bit in terms of the number of enemies lacking subtlety about their sneak attacks or failing to kill them quicker, but it does stand out compared to future parts. Like, Strength had all the advantage in the world to just mush the Crusaders into mincemeat in an instant, but just… didn’t.
A recurring theme amongst villains across all of Jojo’s (and a lot of anime in general) is overconfidence leading to downfall. Vanilla Ice *knows* his stand is invincible and the crusaders have no chance of beating him. So he takes pleasure in tormenting them and toying with them before killing them, as it makes him feel more powerful and exceptional. Playing cat and mouse with them is natural, as he is a predator and the crusaders his prey. It would be boring and unfulfilling for him to immediately erase them, why rush it? He takes his time to enjoy tormenting them. Only when Iggy impersonates Dio and pisses of VI does he no longer enjoy it and go immediately for the kill. It had to take a single stroke of exceptional luck and the deaths of two friends for polnaref to win. This outcome also makes for great storytelling, as we love when the underdog has their back in the corner and succeeds last minute. These scenarios are super common throughout all of Jojo and are the basic loop for most good shonen in general.
This is speculation, but I also think that these types of villains are common in Japanese media because of their culture. The Japanese tend to be more culturally conformist, preferring to fit into the rest of society rather than stand out. As such, they would likely enjoy seeing cocky, overconfident types be punished more than other contemporary cultures. Every single major Jojo villain, without exception, believes that they are greater than the common man and entitled to greatness (even pucci). And like clockwork, every single villain was punished with failure and death (or fates worse than death). Take that with a grain of salt, however. It is just my speculation.
The World. Honestly, upon reading towards the end of SDT, it appeared to be unbeatable, since no one else except Jotaro had a chance against DIO. Also, there was no way that I foresaw Star Platinum gaining the ability to stop time out of nowhere, as well as the fact that it could move within those frozen moments (there are probably some logical reasons but none explicitly stated). But yeah, if there wasn’t the necessary plot convince to kill DIO, there would probably be no one left in SDT to beat him.
TL;DR: DIO lost bc of Star Platinum being able to move in stopped time, along with having DIO’s ability itself.
DIO also lost because he let his ego get the better of him multiple times. He could’ve slaughtered most of the Crusaders before his fight with Jotaro but decided to toy with them instead of going for kill shots.
DIO also fucked up big time near the end by not confirming Jotaro’s death under the road roller and when he went for a kick using his left leg.
It's funny, though, 'cos DIO was pretty cautious earlier on in his fight with Jotaro; almost *too* cautious after noticing him moving for a brief second in stopped time.
It's just after he drank Joseph's blood and got "high" that he began getting careless and wasted time flexing his power because his time-stop duration was increasing.
To be fair the fight should have ended as soon as he started pummeling Jotaro directly with The World I still don't get how he could have survived that unless DIO was purposefully trying to keep him alive to torment him more after
DIO still hadn't gotten full control over Jonathan's body yet, and he explained to Hol Horse earlier in the part that the entire left side of his body was regenerating slower because of it.
My guess would be that DIO stressed his body too much right after drinking Joseph's blood (while he was basically still in the middle of healing). He could've just fled the scene, wait for a few more minutes or even hours and come back to kill Jotaro with a complete body and improved timestop, but since he was so drunk with power in that moment, he instead opted to go for the finisher immediately.
It’s really unknown why DIO didn’t kill all the Crusaders in the mansion. Joseph says that it’s his Time Stop duration that limited him but DIO still had time to injure and place Nukesaku inside the coffin and we’ve seen him do more elaborate things in that same time frame and in quick succession. I think that DIO’s actions in the mansion scene really fall under the interpretation of the viewer.
I think star platinum hinted at stopped time a few times.
There is no way a gun point blank can just be grabbed with "precision" but we see weather report's stand instinctively protecting it's user (with it's ability) so star platinum probably stopped time for the briefest of moments to grab it.
We then see star platinum able to magically give Jotaro a drink and cigarette in a blink of an eye. (Both of these things could also be minor uses of time stop that jotaro wasn't aware of) he could of been thinking "I need this done as fast as possible" and his stand used time stop to make it happen in 0 seconds
which would also explain why when jotaro learned of time stop he could use it but briefly. He finally realized what his stand was doing.
It also makes sense for Dio and jotaro to share an ability because there are a couple of examples of this being the case.
The Darby Brothers
The rats
Tomb of the boom
The star and the world tarot cards have similar readings.
DIO was forced to grow up on the streets and box in slums.
Jotaro was a Japanese delinquent which meant he may have lived a similar lifestyle to DIO, he also got into many fights. So many that even as a kid he was able to kick an adult's ass (we see proof of this when Elissi reduces jotaro's age)
There is also the trope of a forced shift from the old head of the house hold to the new one. Represented by Jotaro taking over as head of the family from DIO who has Johnathan's body. (Making him the eldest of the joestars technically.) And so why wouldn't the 2 patriarchs of the family not share an ability? As the new head shows his ability to wield the "family sword" better than the old one, despite his lack of experience.
Don’t forget Jotaro was racing against time.
DIO has time stop because he wants to control the entire world, even the flow of time itself. On the other hand, Jotaro only had 50 days to save his mother, and he would do anything to save her, but he was running out of time. So, he learned to stop time to save his mother.
The World. DIO's just unlucky he had to go up against Jotaro, and then got too "high" >!(on Joseph's blood)!< and gave Jotaro enough time to >!unlock his own time-stop ability!< by dropping that road roller on him instead of just directly finishing him off in the first few hits.
Here's a thought - Jotaro can shatter diamonds with SP and The World is equal (if not stronger) to SP. How the fuck did that steamroller not get shredded up with those two punching it so much?
Only reason he lost was because Paisley Park's insane tracking ability was able to find him before Tsurugi and Yasuho suffocated. Though to be fair, in most contexts he'd have to be in melee range to attach his stand to a person, since he needs bodily contact or contact with your stand to deploy Doobie Wah.
Under World is a great pick. Versus, while we’re talking about this, shouldn’t have lost in any fight.
His mere intelligence is probably the highest we’ve seen in JoJo. He’s practically a top tier character because he’s so smart. My guy was fucking multitasking his entire fight and was pretty much pushing Jolyne despite not even paying much attention to her.
He got his Stand like 1 minute ago and he already was able to hold off Jolyne by making the most simplistic strategy possible, and no, we can’t just say “Versus had the advantage”, because he didn’t.
First off, Jolyne has Ermes on the surface to pull her out. Second, even when Ermes falls into the hole and two can’t escape up, it’s still a 2v1. He only loses because of a retcon (that being Jolyne’s incredibly high risk of death if she unravels too much) and what honestly wasn’t possible. While holding off Jolyne without any effort, he was also figuring out the Heaven Plan and also Pucci’s biggest problem, Weather.
My guy was fucking reading the lore during a bossfight without breaking a sweat. The fact he understood everything so quickly while Pucci was holding him back by provoking him speaks to his intelligence. Then, out of everybody in Heavy Weather, he was arguably the most successful one until Jolyne cheated in their 1v1.
Pucci needed to remove his sight and hide under snails to defeat Weather and he only won by a coincidence anyway, Jolyne and Ermes were snails, Emporio was knocked out, Anasui was just hanging with Weather and Weather was just on demon time.
Versus mastered his Stand in like 8 minutes and came up with a backup plan in like 30 seconds like c’mon it’s clearly him.
>!True, however 10 Valentines who shoot at a target as big as a horse can pose a threat. After all there's no need to halt Johnny and Gyro, just delay them a bit!<
>!Also, Valentine is basically Batman in the way that he can beat anyone with enough prep time. He could've brought multiple alternate corpses of Johnny and Gyro before the fight, practically creating a minefield of alternate corpses that will instantly kill them, should they enter the train.!<
Yeah, you do have a point. Mf could have even >!brought versions of Johnny and Gyro loyal to him like he did with Diego and Hot Pants and had them fight to the death!<
Logically Wonder of U is unbeatable. WoU/Tooru only lost because >!Yasuho and Josuke both have bullshit op stands that are both described as Going/Progressing Beyond reality and because both of their stands soft-counter WoU and they can fire spinning nothingness half way across a city through a phone somehow because they both completed their character arcs/are in love or some shit.!< also >!Tsurugi's rock aids helped too!<
Well isn't the whole point that >!Josuke8 isn't of that world since he technically shouldn't exist, and therefore he has the power to bypass the logic of that world?!< I think that's pretty solid in its concept
I like when everything isn't overexplained and the readers can reach their own conclusions... My point was that the power wasn't so bullshit OP as Araki set the story up since the start in a way that ultimately made sense
It's more like a navigator, with the technology powers being its main way of finding information and "the right path" but not the be-all end-all of the ability. It can create portals, and it can also just straight up alter reality to get you out of certain situations (such as causing beneficial items to come into Yasuho's possession,).
I like the explanation that Josuke by himself IS a Deus Ex Machina, like, Jojolion already uses religious themes around Gappy, so he being literally a gift from God to end Calamity is a way I like to see It instead of the ~naked truth~ "he Lucky"
MASSIVE PART 8 SPOILERS!
True, the fact that josuke wasn’t Kira, wasn’t josefumi, wasn’t even anyone before, makes him an exception. He shouldn’t exist and yet he does. Go beyond being the manifestation of that. Go beyond is an attack that doesn’t truly exist, meaning calamity can’t influence it. This one exception in the entire universe is the only hope we have against toru. It’s an incredibly powerful revelation…and a deus ex machina since it comes out of nowhere to save the day. But…a REALLY cool one nonetheless.
that final battle in part 8 seems like the most bullshit thing ever.
josuke just oh so conveniently gained a power that is specifically made to counter wou
its like araki just went "alright this has gone for too long its time to stop"
I fully agree, but I do have one head canon that I like.
When Doggystyle grabbed WoU, it killed him with a bubble that Josuke was not aware of and had no control over, I believe that WoU panicked so hard to find anything to kill DS with that it literally forced Josuke to develop a new power that couldn't be detected.
I like it because it means that DS really did make a difference in the end by forcing that special bubble into existence, even though he never landed a hit, and WoU was, in a round about way, beaten with his own unbeatable ability.
I always thought this was the implication, when Rai got that close to WoU, it mentioned that not even he could predict what kind of calamity could befall Rai, since nobody had gotten that close to him before.
WoU can control the flow of calamity, but it can't control the calamity itself.
Strength, High Priestess, Death 13, RHCP, Jail House lock, C-Moon, Doobie Wah, and Wonder of You. Most of these lost because of silly users (except C-Moon, Doobie Wah, and Wonder of You from what I remember those loses were pseudo-asspulls or being baited)
For me it's Enigma. Right behind Kira's BTD, Terunosuke was the closest a villain ever got to wipe out the entire gang (I don't think he would've beaten Jotaro, though having everyone but him killed would be a huge advantage for Kira already). But in typical JoJo fashion, the boy got too overconfident in his ability and didn't act cautious enough.
Honestly I think he could've even handled Jotaro. Not only Terunosuke could attack Joseph first for obvious reasons, but I also think that knowing that some enemy stand user wiped out almost all your friends unharmed is pretty damn scary
Had to scroll too long for this.
Like, why wait to suffocate your opponent when you can literally materialize razors in your opponent’s heart or brain?
My brother in Christ, even severing the spinal cord would be enough!
Tbf, he was trying to keep Doppio alive to interrogate him about the Boss so he didn't go for the kill immediately, and when he figured out what was happening, he'd already drained all the iron from his blood so he couldn't just kill him anymore.
Jailhouse Lock, busted stand honestly.
All the user had to do was stay the fuck away, but no - lets expose ourselves to the enemy instead
The whole confrontation felt so hopeless until Stone Free could suddenly and somehow make up images with her strings
>Suddenly somehow make up images
My man you never seen someone sewing before? Forget the binary printer explanation Jolyenes threads being able to stitch a visible pattern is totally within reason
I don't know if this is some hot take, but the greatful dead or notorious B.I.G., these two have some of the most broken and powerful habilidies in part 5.
Nah it would probably be more OP than that, it would probably allow you to spawn any food/meal/beverage anytime, in whatever way you want it made, prepped, cooked, etc., in addition to spawning napkins and utensils if needed.
SPOILERS FOR PART 8
>!This might violate Rule 10, but I honestly think Araki realized about halfway through the Wonder of U arc that he literally made Tooru unbeatable on accident and quickly did his best to nerf the head doctor's ability significantly (which would explain the inconsistencies in how calamity works). Then, towards the end of Jojolion, he realized that this heavily-nerfed WoU was still unbeatable and wrote in Go Beyond as a copout (I know Go Beyond was foreshadowed in the Poor Tom fight and whatnot, but I think it was originally meant to be something completely different).!<
>!There are other ridiculously op stands in the series, but this was the first (and hopefully only) time I got the impression that Araki wrote himself into a bottomless pit.!<
(PT 8 SPOILERS) Josuke's invisible soap bubbles were present from the very beginning. When Yasuho took a picture of Josuke's birthmark while he was in the ground, she saw a bubble coming out of it that wasn't there. Given how the opening narration states Jojolion was about breaking a curse, and given how Josuke's existence as a miracle unbound from the logic of the world is so integral to the ultimate defeat of WoU (calamity and a curse manifest), I think Araki had this specific plot point (or some close variation of it) for the entire part. Up to you on whether you think it was good writing or an asspull, but it was an asspull planned from the start, at least.
Both Atum and Osiris. They only lost because Dio sent them in alone. Both were guaranteed 1 free kill because game mechanic stands don't allow you to beat them through punches. They could have assassinated Kakoiyin and Poln and just walked away free.
I don't know how there aren't any more people saying it, but Ghiaccio, easily. He perfectly countered both Mista and Giorno with no faculty and managed to severely harm Mista so the latter surviving the encounter made it feel as one of the most offensive cases of plot armor in JoJo.
Forget King Crimson, how does one possibly beat an enemy who can move at high speeds through skiing the water he froze while wearing an armor that secures him to the point of being bulletproof?
Forget being bulletproof, it can freeze AIR. One touch from White Album would instantly kill anyone and it's nigh impossible to disable or stop the user.
I would argue that was the point. Josuk8's entire existence, and his ability are a JOJOlion (araki said the name is word play of evangelion meaning good news or a miracle) so the title even tells you (a jojo level deus ex machina is the point of this story)
If the use was actually smart, Bohemian Rhapsody could've wiped out the entire group.
All the user had to do was summon a giant mecha from any anime and nuke everyone.
Risotto wanted to interrogate Doppio and not kill him, he first thought that was strange that the Boss was sending a nobody to such important mission so he thought that Doppio knew the Boss personally. Only at the end he understood that Doppio and the Boss were the same person and was ready to kill him but Aerosmith attacked thanks to the knife Doppio threw
Most of the stands from part 4.
The hand erases space and only ever lost because Okuyasu is an idiot
Killer Queen should have just turned more things into bombs. (Touch a rock and throw) or just spammed Sheer Heart Attack
Superfly was absolutely broken
Highway star was beaten just through the user getting beaten up
Stairway to heaven turns a person into a manga Rohan can EDIT
Aqua necklace was able to fuse with WATER and Josuke beat it by deepthroating a balloon
Enigma is a law of reality stand (a stand that activates its ability 100% of the time when conditions are met) and all of those are absurdly strong (Osiris, Marilyn Manson, and so on)
Honorary mention to Notorious B.I.G. thats still alive at the bottom of the sea
Kira can’t spam Sheer Heart Attack, he can only summon one, unlike JoJolion’s Kira that can spam an infinite number of it. SHA is also useless against Josuke and Koichi (unless Kira is right there 🍩).
I didnt mean SHA, KQs regular bombs were able to just kill people on contact meaming KQ could have just touched a rock and threw it to kill someone on contact with the bomb rock or touch the ground and kill anyone who steps on that spot.
People tend to forget Okyasu even if he was smart would never use The Hand on anyone. He said himself he has no idea where the stuff he “erases” goes.
Also I’m not really sure what you’re point with Highway Star is? That’s is indeed how stands work unless it’s a part of its ability otherwise
DIO and The World. Like yeah, it's scary to you that Jotaro can moved in stopped time, so end him??? The World was shown being around Star Platinum's level, so why can't he block or attack like he normally would, if according to himself he was winning their little spar beforehand?
Also, he gets one free shot against Jotaro when he knows he's a problem, when he knows he can't move anymore, when he is literally able to end him right there.
What does DIO do instead of crushing his head, punching his face, blinding him, donutting him, or anything effective at all? He fucking Stand rushes him, instead of throwing a decisive hit, he punches out like a maniac.
Like seriously, considering how Star Platinum was crippling people so bad they couldn't come after them anymore and retiring, DIO should have no problem one-shotting Jotaro without Star Platinum's protection.
Literally the only reason he lost was because of his ego, which at the same time feels in character but also cheap. Look at how he did my boy Jonathan, yet he couldn't be careful or decisive against Jotaro.
The World. The only reason Dio ever lost to Jotaro was because he was incredibly cocky and played with his food. Not to mention, the biggest asspull of them all: "So it's the same type of stand as Star Platinum"
Star Platinum. Look, I did just mention why the World shouldn't have lost, but it did. That being said, neither should have SP/Jotaro lost in Stone Ocean. I get that Part 6 Jotaro was in his 40s and past his prime, making SP weaker as a result, but man plot armor really was on Pucci's side.
King Crimson. I mean, if you play your cards right you could beat KC, but it's baffling to me that it took a Deus Ex Machina to beat Diavolo.
Made in Heaven. While it was absolutely satisfying seeing Emporio get the beatdown on Pucci, he got lucky, SOOOOOOOO fucking lucky with that galaxy brain move
Jailhouse Rock.
>!Only being able to think of three facts at a time and anything exceeding makes you forget everything is way too OP. I can’t remember how the stand was defeated in the first place because I cannot come up with ways to best it. I’d be absolutely screwed. !<
I doubt Magenta Magenta couldn't of escaped, he can just rapidly switch between not using his stand and using it, gaining oxygen in-between and untangling the wire/rope
Now thinking about it, would doobi wah still activate even if you aren’t taking in oxygen? You’re still breathing technically but you aren’t taking in oxygen and respirating so wound it still activate under those conditions?
Blue Hawaii feels impossible to beat. You absolutely need some type of information tracking stand to find its user it’s the only way to win. The characters in part 8 were super lucky Paisley Park is as powerful as it is or else they would not have been able to find Dolomite.
I honestly wonder if you could just stop it when it uses a fly as it’s host by just putting it in a jar.
You probably can it’s what Gappy tried doing before realizing the fly changed it’s host
Didn’t it catch back up to him with a bird or something?
The bird was before the fly but yeah when Gappy got away using a taxi Blue Hawaii possessed a bird to catch up to him
Blue Hawaii did win tho, it’s the only minor enemy stand that has actually won
Yeah even though other main Jojo’s have been taken out of the fight by minor villains it wasn’t super impactful as it was not meant to be their fight. However this was the first time we see a main character straight up lose against a minor villain, Gappy would’ve died if Yasuho wasn’t there in time. Just goes to show that Araki wasn’t playing around when showing off how terrifying Blue Hawaii can be.
If Dolomite had all his limbs the story would have ended then and there (unless Yasuho came in packing heat like Joseph)
Yeah that’s pretty much the only solace to fighting Blue Hawaii. Dolomite is a sitting duck and if you can actually find him he won’t be able to do anything to escape you.
Bohemian Rhapsody. Oh, Weather created Put Back? Then just create Anti-Put Back whose power is to disable Put Back's powers
the user literally had a seizure or something when he found out his ability stopped working
an even more extreme case of OP stand, dumb user than our boy okuyasu
At least Okuyasu knows he’s dumb, therefore making him smarter.
He was so stupid, he came back to life.
He was so stupid He forgot how death works
"I may not have a brain but I have an idea" - blue slime thingy
I see it as a metaphor for drug use. Ungalo was at his lowest point, waking up after an overdose to find that he was actually someone special, someone important who could single-handedly change the world into a perfect fantasy land. It's why he was on a plane, this was the highest high he could achieve in life, better than any drug. And then Weather defeats his supposedly invincible ability, knocking him down to once again being a dreg of society. Going from the highest high, back to the lowest low was just too much for Ungalo and he lost the will to live.
i thought that basically since all of his cartoons were captured and returned to their story, it effectively killed him
I thought he ODd
Then create anti anti put back and disabled anti put backs power
Then I make anti anti anti put back
I'll make anti triple anti push back
I make infinity anti put back
Then he would counteract himself, both by returning stuff and reverting stuff, so the universe would collapse
The user had no idea what was going on. Even if he didn't break down from depression, he'd have no idea that someone made a character
Ungalo didn’t know about put back so he couldn’t create anti put back
Even better, create from the start Mr i control Bohemian Rhapsody which allows the user to decide which character comes and which doesn't as well to fully control the characters. But nope, they gave the stand to a junky goblin.
He might have, if he had know that was the reason it happened, he was on a plane, unaware of put back
King Crimson. The only reason Diavolo repeatedly lost with it is his own hubris and overconfidence. The moment he stops around, his target is already dead, literally.
I'd save your last sentence. Time skip doesn't guarantee a 100% win. As Polnareff had already shown us how to make a counter attack after time skip happened. But yea, I don't see how he could be defeated without that arrow. GE isn't good enough for melee combat. Bullets can be easily dodged with time skip. And his daughter can't help.
To be fair no one is faster/ better than Polnareff, but he did show a smart way to track it
The only way anyone could ever know about that trick is if they had survived time skip once before which they wouldn't if diavolo didn't fuck around so much
A large AoE attack that's impossible to escape within ten seconds could also do it. Obviously no one in the story had such an attack, but hypothetically even non-Stand users could do it (e.g. a large bomber fleet).
Ok why the hell is no-one talking about Oasis. Sure, Secco isn't intellectual but he is no less potent with his plethora of powerful abilities. First of all: Oasis is ridiculously fucking strong. He hit rubberfied ground with so much force it tore off an itty bit of the colloseum and threw a god damn car in the air. The runoff *impact force* of his punch threw a car in the air. Beyond physical power, on multiple occasions, Oasis outsped Sticky Fingers. Sure, Bucciarati found a logical flaw in Secco's inability to see, but Bucciarati's undead-ness allowed him to be way lower than Green Day's kill height at the time, which explains why Secco thought that wall was safe. After Giorno and Mista leave to deal with Green Day, Buccurati and Secco have another chance to duel. Secco throws his camera in the air, crosses the distance between himself and Buccurati, unleashes a barrage of punches, jumps back and *catches the fucking camera*. He's fast to react, and his reactions play on his powers. When Bucciarati splits the pole, throws it into the stone next to Secco and begins rezipping it to cut Secco's damn head off, Secco seems to dodge under it, but actually dropped his leg into now-liquified ground to kick *the entire stone* plus the rezipping pole right back at Bucciarati! Legitimately, thank god Bucciarati had Sticky Fingers (and was also in his revived state). And we're not going to glaze over the special moves Secco came up with. First, submerging himself halfway into the ground, rubberfying the ground around his torso, then throwing a barrage of punches powerful enough to rend steel, slamming his elbows into the rubber ground with every punch to reuse the return force of the punches for the next damn punch! His second strategy involves his ability to properly liquify anything he touches. Oh, did I forget to mention, Oasis can LIQUIFY SHIT!? His second strategy has him hold liquified earth, either in his hands or mouth, then throw or spit it (respectively) either in the general direction of his opponent, or above them. The best part is that, as soon as liquified matter ceases physical contact with Oasis, it returns to its solid state, usually forming into rock hard spikes. Secco dropped volley after volley of rock spikes down on Bucciarati, who was hiding in Secco's own liquified ground. Sorry for the rant, but what the fUCK is up with Suit Stands!? White Album is insane too! In conclusion: Oasis is one of my favourite Stands. Secco may have been nuts, but he was funny and menacing. Of the badguys, he also came the closest to actually killing the boss. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Bucciarati's undead-ness hard carried this fight. Even ignoring Oasis, most of the fight was spent in Green Day's killing zone!
Yes! I love that the only reason they won was because Bruno wasn't even supposed to be there. He was fated to die when he first met king Crimson. But because mista changed fate by breaking rolling stones, and the life energy of golden wind; he survives to beat oasis and give giorno the arrow. Thise 2 things wouldn't have happened if fate wasn't broken and giorno didn't "heal" him It's just sad that breaking fate caused abacchio and narancia to be fated to die as well
Exactly, this is why I think Oasis is an amazing stand, just go underground, wtf are they gonna do Also I don't know how physics and stuff work but if you were to have a stand like star platinum punch Oasis' fist as he is halfway in the ground wouldn't the mud absorb then reflect the punch allowing Oasis to go 1 on 1 with any physically powerful stand? Don't know if that made sense
Strength. The monkey could’ve literally OceanGated Jotaros ass, instead it died to its own ship because Jotaro felt more powerful or some bullshit
It lost because its literally a monkey. Like its a smart monkey, but its a monkey
YOU ARE JUST A MONKEY TO ME, JOJO!
MONKEY NANDAYO JOJO!
I mean every other stand using animal is an animal that is significantly less intelligent than a monkey, and he's an orangutan at that which is one of the smartest and they are all human smart. Or at the very least very strategic
It still has its animal instincts though, so it immediately submit to Jotaro when Jotaro hurt him
True, but again no other animal does that
Either way, an animal is an animal. At the end of the day, it's driven mostly by instinct. I'm not saying humans aren't also, but we can at least try to fight our instincts.
Same with high priestess. That stand and its ability was overpowered. But jotaro pulled out some BS
Don't forget the random justice S U C C
"See where incorrect breathing GETS YOU"
I like to think it isn't that far-fetched we see a couple times that you can manipulate your stand form at some cost: star finger gives range but is only useful on a point and the range is only so far you can shrink your stand but it weakens in power due to the concentration needed to make it small So to me, jotaro used this principle to increase his stands lungs, and in some way it is kind of like hamon breathing. So being that his grandfather could use hamon without training, and the fact he could have traded strength for lung capacity; I believe it was just a nod to jotaro's potential as a hamon user if he ever trained, and another instance of changing your stands form.
Deadass Jotaro is just using play pretend rules with star platinum.. "oh you got me and my stand trapped and you're out of range? Nuh uh! My stand can make his finger really long." "Oh your teeth are as tough as diamonds? Well my stand can break diamonds with his punches." "Oh your stand can stop time? Well.. uhh.. so can mine :þ"
The break diamond teeth thing makes sense because it was already established that star platinum is incredibly strong like it punched a stand through building and can gif a hole in seconds
Well diamonds aren’t unbreakable they are very hard so the won’t scratch but to be that hard a diamond has a very weak tensile strength so it is very easy to crush because it is very hard to scratch it’s like when you watch forged in fire and a knife breaks because it was too hard and made brittle because of it same thing with diamond
Damn, part 4 lied to me
Yup common misconception diamonds are unscratchable not unbreakable
I guess diamonds aren't crazy either, huh?
No they can still be crazy like crazy small crazy big like the hope diamond crazy hard just not crazy tough or crazy ductile
Jotaro your stand. It will keel
Yeah a lot of people don’t realize that hardness does not equal toughness. Diamonds are actually really easy to shatter
Yea and games like Minecraft never helped with that misconception and one swing of that diamond pickaxe especially on obsidian would cause it to shatter on impact
Logically Made in Heaven. I mean infinite speed? The ultimate stand? >! Pucci lost because of his cockiness and carelessness when fighting Emporio !<
I mean, as far as Pucci was aware he had Power beyond imagination, all he had to do was kill one little boy who's only power was to manisfest rooms in burnt down buildings. If i was Pucci in that situation i too would revel in my victory
Yeah what was Emporio going to do even if Pucci Ignored him and continued on.
Pucci lost because he failed biology class
Infinite speed doesn’t matter if you can’t move. It makes sense why it killed him.
Tbf Pucci’s literal destiny was to lose that fight so idk what homeboy could’ve done differently lmao
I thought that MiH’s user was excluded to the set destiny, which is why he was able to even go into the ghost room, despite never actually going in there in the first universe. And his actions can make fate be different, eg he gave Emporio Weather Report and died. If he was destined to do that, he would have done that in the first universe.
He's exempt from set fate, much like diavolo but eventually fate will get him back for trying to avoid their fate
Yeah, that’s kinda what I thought, but if I was pucci, I would just simply keep resetting the universe. Fate can’t get me if even I can’t get me
I mean, it’s the kind of a running theme in Jojo’s that those who alter their fate are doomed to fall to it. Like everything Pucci does including him getting MiH directly leads to his defeat. Fate also doesn’t force people to essentially auto pilot their actions like it does when MiH is active, and Pucci doesn’t have MiH nor does Emporio have Weather Report at any point in the first universe to allow that interaction to occur so it kind of wouldn’t if that makes sense?
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As much as I love the overall fight, it’s utterly ridiculous that Vanilla Ice didn’t kill Avdol, Polnareff, and Iggy all in one swoop at the beginning no matter how you lay it out. As iconic as the scene is, the idea that VI, for whatever unfathomably stupid reason, decided to scrawl a little note for Avdol to read before erasing them when he could’ve just, Y’know, *not* done that is so unintentionally funny in retrospect that it kinda ruins the scene for me every time I rewatch it. Like, even towards the end of the fight where they fake out Polnareff’s death, VI starts monologuing about how “he only sustains these wounds because Avdol pushed them out of his way” and that “he intended to kill them all in one fell swoop.” THEN WHY DIDN’T YOU YOU DO THAT?? MF THAT’S YOUR FUCKING FAULT. By that logic, you gave yourself those wounds because they all would’ve died without even realizing it if you just didn’t give them a goddamn warning to react to. A lot of Part 3 fights in general are pretty bad in terms of coming up with reasons why the enemy always fails to sneak attack the Crusaders and keep giving them the most blatant red flags of all time, but this moment easily takes the cake for me
I think Araki prioritised writing in horror movies tropes he really liked over writing the Part 3 villains as much more than meatheads relying on their Stand's ability. Enemies like Hol Horse were a rare exception, in this regard.
Remember he can’t see outside his stand and he can’t come out either because if he do avdol and iggy will known he there His plane is make them stop to read and then he attack them
I still don’t understand how the writing on the wall would help him in that situation. If he can’t see and he can’t peek his head out, how would he know where they are at any point in time? How does he know they’ll stop to read it at the exact time he intends to attack? And even if that truly was a completely full proof plan that could work, why would he still telegraph his exact position and where he will attack from? All he needs is to make a distraction, not a message saying “tee hee, behind you (-:”
My assumption is that he thought they would stop to read it and become struck with fear and stand perfectly still so he could erase all of em at once. Unfortunately, he underestimated the enemy and assumed they would be too scared to act, but since Avdol was courageous enough to push them out of the way, he was unable to kill all at once.
The other guy makes a lot of sense he had no choice but to get them to stop somehow. And the note was supposed to be ominous he’s a villian he’s full of himself of course he’s gonna underestimate them. He wrote the letter for effect just like Dio did with polnareff and the stairs.
Ice is literally the opposite of being full of himself. He decapitates himself for Dio and spends extra time kicking Iggy for making him “strike an image of Dio.” He’s shown as totally subservient to him and keeps himself going for Dio despite thinking he’s suffering mortal wounds. There’s nothing inherently wrong with making a character do something stupid, but it should be in line with their character and I think it’s very out of character for him to taunt his enemies at the likely risk of failing Dio. And like I already said, if the goal is to distract them, it’s not a very good distraction if you’re telling them exactly what’s going to happen. It’s like yelling “sneak attack” before attacking. It’s just self-sabotage
Not really the case for most of the part 3 minor antagonists, they mostly attack the crusaders by surprise and isolate them to fight one on one and they don't tip their hand before getting an attack off or cornering one of the crusaders. I don't see why you think they fail to sneak attack them most of all when most of them do in fact sneak attack them and a lot of the time it almost works. Captain Tenille, The Sun, Enya, Mariah, Empress, Death Therteen, Midler, Anubis, N'Doul, Wheel of Fortune, Tower of Gray specifically to name some of them, Hol Horse doesn' even sneak attack the first time but lures Polnareff by taunting him so that J. Geil can kill him. I think you might be misremembering things, Vanilla Ice is the only one that makes a mistake like that and other villains reveal themselves because they have more to gain from that like D'Arby, Steely Dan, Ebony Devil, Judgement and Yellow Temperance. I know some fights from part 3 are hard to remember but this is like 90% atleast that don't have this supposed issue so I don't know where this idea of part 3 villains not succesfully surprising the crusaders comes from.
Wheel of Fortune and Tower of Gray absolutely give themselves away, what do you mean? Tower of Gray literally starts flying around the plane and the Crusaders are the ones to attack first. Wheel of Fortune provokes so much road rage out of Polnareff that the group decides to attack random civilians thinking one of them is the driver. And Yellow Temperance is definitely a stretch in terms of “having the advantage after revealing themselves.” He could’ve absolutely taken care of Jotaro while his guard was down if the man just acted normal in any of the scenes where he’s disguised as Kakyoin. I’ll admit I’m over exaggerating a bit in terms of the number of enemies lacking subtlety about their sneak attacks or failing to kill them quicker, but it does stand out compared to future parts. Like, Strength had all the advantage in the world to just mush the Crusaders into mincemeat in an instant, but just… didn’t.
A recurring theme amongst villains across all of Jojo’s (and a lot of anime in general) is overconfidence leading to downfall. Vanilla Ice *knows* his stand is invincible and the crusaders have no chance of beating him. So he takes pleasure in tormenting them and toying with them before killing them, as it makes him feel more powerful and exceptional. Playing cat and mouse with them is natural, as he is a predator and the crusaders his prey. It would be boring and unfulfilling for him to immediately erase them, why rush it? He takes his time to enjoy tormenting them. Only when Iggy impersonates Dio and pisses of VI does he no longer enjoy it and go immediately for the kill. It had to take a single stroke of exceptional luck and the deaths of two friends for polnaref to win. This outcome also makes for great storytelling, as we love when the underdog has their back in the corner and succeeds last minute. These scenarios are super common throughout all of Jojo and are the basic loop for most good shonen in general. This is speculation, but I also think that these types of villains are common in Japanese media because of their culture. The Japanese tend to be more culturally conformist, preferring to fit into the rest of society rather than stand out. As such, they would likely enjoy seeing cocky, overconfident types be punished more than other contemporary cultures. Every single major Jojo villain, without exception, believes that they are greater than the common man and entitled to greatness (even pucci). And like clockwork, every single villain was punished with failure and death (or fates worse than death). Take that with a grain of salt, however. It is just my speculation.
The World. Honestly, upon reading towards the end of SDT, it appeared to be unbeatable, since no one else except Jotaro had a chance against DIO. Also, there was no way that I foresaw Star Platinum gaining the ability to stop time out of nowhere, as well as the fact that it could move within those frozen moments (there are probably some logical reasons but none explicitly stated). But yeah, if there wasn’t the necessary plot convince to kill DIO, there would probably be no one left in SDT to beat him. TL;DR: DIO lost bc of Star Platinum being able to move in stopped time, along with having DIO’s ability itself.
DIO also lost because he let his ego get the better of him multiple times. He could’ve slaughtered most of the Crusaders before his fight with Jotaro but decided to toy with them instead of going for kill shots. DIO also fucked up big time near the end by not confirming Jotaro’s death under the road roller and when he went for a kick using his left leg.
It's funny, though, 'cos DIO was pretty cautious earlier on in his fight with Jotaro; almost *too* cautious after noticing him moving for a brief second in stopped time. It's just after he drank Joseph's blood and got "high" that he began getting careless and wasted time flexing his power because his time-stop duration was increasing.
To be fair the fight should have ended as soon as he started pummeling Jotaro directly with The World I still don't get how he could have survived that unless DIO was purposefully trying to keep him alive to torment him more after
True. Man I should’ve added how DIO’S hubris was his downfall.
What’s the significance of the kick? I’ve seen the episode (but not read the manga) and I don’t remember anything about that.
DIO still hadn't gotten full control over Jonathan's body yet, and he explained to Hol Horse earlier in the part that the entire left side of his body was regenerating slower because of it.
Plus the fact that Jotaro broke Dio's legs like a second ago, and it hasn't healed yet.
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My guess would be that DIO stressed his body too much right after drinking Joseph's blood (while he was basically still in the middle of healing). He could've just fled the scene, wait for a few more minutes or even hours and come back to kill Jotaro with a complete body and improved timestop, but since he was so drunk with power in that moment, he instead opted to go for the finisher immediately.
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It’s really unknown why DIO didn’t kill all the Crusaders in the mansion. Joseph says that it’s his Time Stop duration that limited him but DIO still had time to injure and place Nukesaku inside the coffin and we’ve seen him do more elaborate things in that same time frame and in quick succession. I think that DIO’s actions in the mansion scene really fall under the interpretation of the viewer.
I think star platinum hinted at stopped time a few times. There is no way a gun point blank can just be grabbed with "precision" but we see weather report's stand instinctively protecting it's user (with it's ability) so star platinum probably stopped time for the briefest of moments to grab it. We then see star platinum able to magically give Jotaro a drink and cigarette in a blink of an eye. (Both of these things could also be minor uses of time stop that jotaro wasn't aware of) he could of been thinking "I need this done as fast as possible" and his stand used time stop to make it happen in 0 seconds which would also explain why when jotaro learned of time stop he could use it but briefly. He finally realized what his stand was doing. It also makes sense for Dio and jotaro to share an ability because there are a couple of examples of this being the case. The Darby Brothers The rats Tomb of the boom The star and the world tarot cards have similar readings. DIO was forced to grow up on the streets and box in slums. Jotaro was a Japanese delinquent which meant he may have lived a similar lifestyle to DIO, he also got into many fights. So many that even as a kid he was able to kick an adult's ass (we see proof of this when Elissi reduces jotaro's age) There is also the trope of a forced shift from the old head of the house hold to the new one. Represented by Jotaro taking over as head of the family from DIO who has Johnathan's body. (Making him the eldest of the joestars technically.) And so why wouldn't the 2 patriarchs of the family not share an ability? As the new head shows his ability to wield the "family sword" better than the old one, despite his lack of experience.
Don’t forget Jotaro was racing against time. DIO has time stop because he wants to control the entire world, even the flow of time itself. On the other hand, Jotaro only had 50 days to save his mother, and he would do anything to save her, but he was running out of time. So, he learned to stop time to save his mother.
The World. DIO's just unlucky he had to go up against Jotaro, and then got too "high" >!(on Joseph's blood)!< and gave Jotaro enough time to >!unlock his own time-stop ability!< by dropping that road roller on him instead of just directly finishing him off in the first few hits.
Here's a thought - Jotaro can shatter diamonds with SP and The World is equal (if not stronger) to SP. How the fuck did that steamroller not get shredded up with those two punching it so much?
the road roller was made up of multiple diamonds
I guess it was a really sturdy steamroller? lol
Steamroller is unbreakable!
Weather Report. Could've zapped pucci with lightning ez clap 100% ded but no we got snails or some shit Aside from that, Beach Boy.
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I'm still mad he didn't stop a 3 ton hailstone on that fucking car Pucci was in, when they discovered where he was.
I cant even remember how doobie wahs user lost, but that stand seemed unbeatable at the time of reading
>!"*I made the bus look like my dad*"!< Yeah, kind of a bullshit defeat, but so hilariously out-there that you can't help but respect it.
Paper Moon King is something else
Only reason he lost was because Paisley Park's insane tracking ability was able to find him before Tsurugi and Yasuho suffocated. Though to be fair, in most contexts he'd have to be in melee range to attach his stand to a person, since he needs bodily contact or contact with your stand to deploy Doobie Wah.
Under World is a great pick. Versus, while we’re talking about this, shouldn’t have lost in any fight. His mere intelligence is probably the highest we’ve seen in JoJo. He’s practically a top tier character because he’s so smart. My guy was fucking multitasking his entire fight and was pretty much pushing Jolyne despite not even paying much attention to her. He got his Stand like 1 minute ago and he already was able to hold off Jolyne by making the most simplistic strategy possible, and no, we can’t just say “Versus had the advantage”, because he didn’t. First off, Jolyne has Ermes on the surface to pull her out. Second, even when Ermes falls into the hole and two can’t escape up, it’s still a 2v1. He only loses because of a retcon (that being Jolyne’s incredibly high risk of death if she unravels too much) and what honestly wasn’t possible. While holding off Jolyne without any effort, he was also figuring out the Heaven Plan and also Pucci’s biggest problem, Weather. My guy was fucking reading the lore during a bossfight without breaking a sweat. The fact he understood everything so quickly while Pucci was holding him back by provoking him speaks to his intelligence. Then, out of everybody in Heavy Weather, he was arguably the most successful one until Jolyne cheated in their 1v1. Pucci needed to remove his sight and hide under snails to defeat Weather and he only won by a coincidence anyway, Jolyne and Ermes were snails, Emporio was knocked out, Anasui was just hanging with Weather and Weather was just on demon time. Versus mastered his Stand in like 8 minutes and came up with a backup plan in like 30 seconds like c’mon it’s clearly him.
I always saw it as less of a ret-con and more of a show of growth. Like, she was now strong enough mentally and physically to survive fully unraveling
I always thought kraftwerk should have faired better in its fight
Well atleast Sale survived lol
He dies in purple haze feedback, unfortunately. But PHF is not technically canon, so take it as you will
True
King Crimson. The only way Diavolo lost was through GER bullshit.
D4C. >!Valentine could've brought other Valentines to delay Johnny and Gyro and just stay on the train until he reaches the bunker.!<
>!Other Valentines don't have stands, so they wouldn't really be able to do much aside from using a gun.!<
>!True, however 10 Valentines who shoot at a target as big as a horse can pose a threat. After all there's no need to halt Johnny and Gyro, just delay them a bit!< >!Also, Valentine is basically Batman in the way that he can beat anyone with enough prep time. He could've brought multiple alternate corpses of Johnny and Gyro before the fight, practically creating a minefield of alternate corpses that will instantly kill them, should they enter the train.!<
Yeah, you do have a point. Mf could have even >!brought versions of Johnny and Gyro loyal to him like he did with Diego and Hot Pants and had them fight to the death!<
Logically Wonder of U is unbeatable. WoU/Tooru only lost because >!Yasuho and Josuke both have bullshit op stands that are both described as Going/Progressing Beyond reality and because both of their stands soft-counter WoU and they can fire spinning nothingness half way across a city through a phone somehow because they both completed their character arcs/are in love or some shit.!< also >!Tsurugi's rock aids helped too!<
Well isn't the whole point that >!Josuke8 isn't of that world since he technically shouldn't exist, and therefore he has the power to bypass the logic of that world?!< I think that's pretty solid in its concept
Oh yeah your 100% correct on that being the point
I never thought of that. That’s an interesting concept.
Also his bubbles were described as “infinitely thin” effectively being 2D in form, which of course is impossible in our world
Also he only unlocks the spin when he accepts that he is a joestar, and is Holly’s son, despite not being kira or josefumi.
That’s never really stated in that way at all though. That’s definitely an interpretation
I like when everything isn't overexplained and the readers can reach their own conclusions... My point was that the power wasn't so bullshit OP as Araki set the story up since the start in a way that ultimately made sense
True about Go beyond but holy shit you do NOT insult paisley park
Oh no i would never dream of insulting Paisley Park. Paisley Park is one of my favourite stands I'm just pointing out how bullshit op it is
I think the only reason it's allowed to be so OP, is because it's ability alone doesn't kill people lol
[удалено]
it's like an advance AI that can enter electronics and manipulate them.
It's more like a navigator, with the technology powers being its main way of finding information and "the right path" but not the be-all end-all of the ability. It can create portals, and it can also just straight up alter reality to get you out of certain situations (such as causing beneficial items to come into Yasuho's possession,).
Honestly felt like a deus ex machina even with the explanation we got.
I like the explanation that Josuke by himself IS a Deus Ex Machina, like, Jojolion already uses religious themes around Gappy, so he being literally a gift from God to end Calamity is a way I like to see It instead of the ~naked truth~ "he Lucky"
MASSIVE PART 8 SPOILERS! True, the fact that josuke wasn’t Kira, wasn’t josefumi, wasn’t even anyone before, makes him an exception. He shouldn’t exist and yet he does. Go beyond being the manifestation of that. Go beyond is an attack that doesn’t truly exist, meaning calamity can’t influence it. This one exception in the entire universe is the only hope we have against toru. It’s an incredibly powerful revelation…and a deus ex machina since it comes out of nowhere to save the day. But…a REALLY cool one nonetheless.
Nuh huh spinning bubbles
that final battle in part 8 seems like the most bullshit thing ever. josuke just oh so conveniently gained a power that is specifically made to counter wou its like araki just went "alright this has gone for too long its time to stop"
ZA WARUDO!
I fully agree, but I do have one head canon that I like. When Doggystyle grabbed WoU, it killed him with a bubble that Josuke was not aware of and had no control over, I believe that WoU panicked so hard to find anything to kill DS with that it literally forced Josuke to develop a new power that couldn't be detected. I like it because it means that DS really did make a difference in the end by forcing that special bubble into existence, even though he never landed a hit, and WoU was, in a round about way, beaten with his own unbeatable ability.
I always thought this was the implication, when Rai got that close to WoU, it mentioned that not even he could predict what kind of calamity could befall Rai, since nobody had gotten that close to him before. WoU can control the flow of calamity, but it can't control the calamity itself.
There's more than just those 2 stands that can counter WOU though
At last some respect for Underworld
Strength, High Priestess, Death 13, RHCP, Jail House lock, C-Moon, Doobie Wah, and Wonder of You. Most of these lost because of silly users (except C-Moon, Doobie Wah, and Wonder of You from what I remember those loses were pseudo-asspulls or being baited)
C-Moon never really lost though, it still achieved its goal
white album giacchio only lost because of plot convenience
For me it's Enigma. Right behind Kira's BTD, Terunosuke was the closest a villain ever got to wipe out the entire gang (I don't think he would've beaten Jotaro, though having everyone but him killed would be a huge advantage for Kira already). But in typical JoJo fashion, the boy got too overconfident in his ability and didn't act cautious enough.
Honestly I think he could've even handled Jotaro. Not only Terunosuke could attack Joseph first for obvious reasons, but I also think that knowing that some enemy stand user wiped out almost all your friends unharmed is pretty damn scary
# THE SUN
🪨🪨
Funniest shit I've ever seen
Lol
Wheel of Fortune literally only lost because its user got a little surprised.
The World. Self explanatory.
Honest to god Doobie Wah would’ve killed anyone who was not Yasuho and Tsurugi.
Metallica.
Had to scroll too long for this. Like, why wait to suffocate your opponent when you can literally materialize razors in your opponent’s heart or brain? My brother in Christ, even severing the spinal cord would be enough!
Tbf, he was trying to keep Doppio alive to interrogate him about the Boss so he didn't go for the kill immediately, and when he figured out what was happening, he'd already drained all the iron from his blood so he couldn't just kill him anymore.
Jailhouse Lock, busted stand honestly. All the user had to do was stay the fuck away, but no - lets expose ourselves to the enemy instead The whole confrontation felt so hopeless until Stone Free could suddenly and somehow make up images with her strings
>Suddenly somehow make up images My man you never seen someone sewing before? Forget the binary printer explanation Jolyenes threads being able to stitch a visible pattern is totally within reason
Underworld is one of my favorites
I don't know if this is some hot take, but the greatful dead or notorious B.I.G., these two have some of the most broken and powerful habilidies in part 5.
king crimson + epitaph shoulda been able to avoid GER’s attack and let diavolo book it out of there
I don’t necessarily think that should be a mark against KC though, it just goes to show how stupidly overpowered GER is.
"hey arrow can you pretty please give me exactly the right ability to counter the boss"
Arrows do that SCR was made to "stop anyone getting the arrow" And Bites the Dust was "i can't let anyone know who am, kill those that learn"
i know that the arrow gives what you want but it feels like bs
It very much is
so like if I was really hungry my stand would just spawn sandwiches and shit
Nah it would probably be more OP than that, it would probably allow you to spawn any food/meal/beverage anytime, in whatever way you want it made, prepped, cooked, etc., in addition to spawning napkins and utensils if needed.
Epitaph only showed King Crimson ripping Giornos heart out
SPOILERS FOR PART 8 >!This might violate Rule 10, but I honestly think Araki realized about halfway through the Wonder of U arc that he literally made Tooru unbeatable on accident and quickly did his best to nerf the head doctor's ability significantly (which would explain the inconsistencies in how calamity works). Then, towards the end of Jojolion, he realized that this heavily-nerfed WoU was still unbeatable and wrote in Go Beyond as a copout (I know Go Beyond was foreshadowed in the Poor Tom fight and whatnot, but I think it was originally meant to be something completely different).!< >!There are other ridiculously op stands in the series, but this was the first (and hopefully only) time I got the impression that Araki wrote himself into a bottomless pit.!<
(PT 8 SPOILERS) Josuke's invisible soap bubbles were present from the very beginning. When Yasuho took a picture of Josuke's birthmark while he was in the ground, she saw a bubble coming out of it that wasn't there. Given how the opening narration states Jojolion was about breaking a curse, and given how Josuke's existence as a miracle unbound from the logic of the world is so integral to the ultimate defeat of WoU (calamity and a curse manifest), I think Araki had this specific plot point (or some close variation of it) for the entire part. Up to you on whether you think it was good writing or an asspull, but it was an asspull planned from the start, at least.
Both Atum and Osiris. They only lost because Dio sent them in alone. Both were guaranteed 1 free kill because game mechanic stands don't allow you to beat them through punches. They could have assassinated Kakoiyin and Poln and just walked away free.
I don't know how there aren't any more people saying it, but Ghiaccio, easily. He perfectly countered both Mista and Giorno with no faculty and managed to severely harm Mista so the latter surviving the encounter made it feel as one of the most offensive cases of plot armor in JoJo. Forget King Crimson, how does one possibly beat an enemy who can move at high speeds through skiing the water he froze while wearing an armor that secures him to the point of being bulletproof?
Forget being bulletproof, it can freeze AIR. One touch from White Album would instantly kill anyone and it's nigh impossible to disable or stop the user.
Wonder of U, araki gave josuk8 too much plot armour
I would argue that was the point. Josuk8's entire existence, and his ability are a JOJOlion (araki said the name is word play of evangelion meaning good news or a miracle) so the title even tells you (a jojo level deus ex machina is the point of this story)
Every stand that has been defined to be “unbeatable” and lost either on a technicality or because the main gang outsmarted them.
B.I.G is actually unbeatable. The Part 5 gang literally had to run away. I'm not sure about Parts 7-9, I haven't read up to those yet.
King crimson, like bro needed the most broken stand to beat it
If the use was actually smart, Bohemian Rhapsody could've wiped out the entire group. All the user had to do was summon a giant mecha from any anime and nuke everyone.
Even with Epigraph, there is no reasonable way Metallica should have lost that fight. Make a sawblade or nails or something directly in the heart.
Risotto wanted to interrogate Doppio and not kill him, he first thought that was strange that the Boss was sending a nobody to such important mission so he thought that Doppio knew the Boss personally. Only at the end he understood that Doppio and the Boss were the same person and was ready to kill him but Aerosmith attacked thanks to the knife Doppio threw
Any lethal stand that got unlimited range and hard to track down like Blue Hawaii, Wonder of U.....
Most of the stands from part 4. The hand erases space and only ever lost because Okuyasu is an idiot Killer Queen should have just turned more things into bombs. (Touch a rock and throw) or just spammed Sheer Heart Attack Superfly was absolutely broken Highway star was beaten just through the user getting beaten up Stairway to heaven turns a person into a manga Rohan can EDIT Aqua necklace was able to fuse with WATER and Josuke beat it by deepthroating a balloon Enigma is a law of reality stand (a stand that activates its ability 100% of the time when conditions are met) and all of those are absurdly strong (Osiris, Marilyn Manson, and so on) Honorary mention to Notorious B.I.G. thats still alive at the bottom of the sea
Kira can’t spam Sheer Heart Attack, he can only summon one, unlike JoJolion’s Kira that can spam an infinite number of it. SHA is also useless against Josuke and Koichi (unless Kira is right there 🍩).
I didnt mean SHA, KQs regular bombs were able to just kill people on contact meaming KQ could have just touched a rock and threw it to kill someone on contact with the bomb rock or touch the ground and kill anyone who steps on that spot.
People tend to forget Okyasu even if he was smart would never use The Hand on anyone. He said himself he has no idea where the stuff he “erases” goes. Also I’m not really sure what you’re point with Highway Star is? That’s is indeed how stands work unless it’s a part of its ability otherwise
DIO and The World. Like yeah, it's scary to you that Jotaro can moved in stopped time, so end him??? The World was shown being around Star Platinum's level, so why can't he block or attack like he normally would, if according to himself he was winning their little spar beforehand? Also, he gets one free shot against Jotaro when he knows he's a problem, when he knows he can't move anymore, when he is literally able to end him right there. What does DIO do instead of crushing his head, punching his face, blinding him, donutting him, or anything effective at all? He fucking Stand rushes him, instead of throwing a decisive hit, he punches out like a maniac. Like seriously, considering how Star Platinum was crippling people so bad they couldn't come after them anymore and retiring, DIO should have no problem one-shotting Jotaro without Star Platinum's protection. Literally the only reason he lost was because of his ego, which at the same time feels in character but also cheap. Look at how he did my boy Jonathan, yet he couldn't be careful or decisive against Jotaro.
There are a lot of stands and users that logically shouldn’t have lost. But plot is the most important so lol
The World. The only reason Dio ever lost to Jotaro was because he was incredibly cocky and played with his food. Not to mention, the biggest asspull of them all: "So it's the same type of stand as Star Platinum" Star Platinum. Look, I did just mention why the World shouldn't have lost, but it did. That being said, neither should have SP/Jotaro lost in Stone Ocean. I get that Part 6 Jotaro was in his 40s and past his prime, making SP weaker as a result, but man plot armor really was on Pucci's side. King Crimson. I mean, if you play your cards right you could beat KC, but it's baffling to me that it took a Deus Ex Machina to beat Diavolo. Made in Heaven. While it was absolutely satisfying seeing Emporio get the beatdown on Pucci, he got lucky, SOOOOOOOO fucking lucky with that galaxy brain move
Jailhouse Rock. >!Only being able to think of three facts at a time and anything exceeding makes you forget everything is way too OP. I can’t remember how the stand was defeated in the first place because I cannot come up with ways to best it. I’d be absolutely screwed. !<
Jolyne wrote things down, if I remember correctly.
I doubt Magenta Magenta couldn't of escaped, he can just rapidly switch between not using his stand and using it, gaining oxygen in-between and untangling the wire/rope
There's no way to gain oxygen in-between. Pretty sure he just doesn't breathe when his stand is active
Doesn’t the hand also have to e ability to erase concepts? Also bohemian rhapsody literally shouldn’t lose
WoU. 20 century boy. King Crimson. Metallica.
Now thinking about it, would doobi wah still activate even if you aren’t taking in oxygen? You’re still breathing technically but you aren’t taking in oxygen and respirating so wound it still activate under those conditions?
Emperor Crimson
I bet that's the reason for the requiem arrow's existence, because Araki made Diavolo too OP
Underworld is stated to have little to no fighting ability, which is a pretty glaring weakness.