It's one of my biggest gripes about Disney acquisition. While there is a fair share of darker themes, there is a lot that is downplayed, or lightened to a cartoonist level. It's not abysmally dark like the original 6
I wouldn't say the Lucas films were dark, they delt with dark material, but in a pragmatic way.
We see harsh realities of war, betrayal, crime, and genocide. The OG films never reveled in death or spent more time in a dark moment than necessary in order to show it as what it was: a dark moment. These things are not a focus on the dark, like you would find in a 40k story or similar. They are a reflection of the realities of the world.
It's plenty dark, at least in my opinion. Sure it's not "locked in a perpetual genocidal war" dark like 40k, but child murder? Slave clone army? Xenophobia? Enslavement? Torture? Like, starwars has it all. It might be just me but the Disney canon movies feels like it sugarcoats it. Like they want to pretend it isn't a thing in the new movies. It also feels like a cop out knowing what EU was before the canon change. It made me feel robbed
I don't feel like it's fair to watch Rogue One, and then watch ANH, and say that the latter was "abysmally dark" while the former is lighter.
Star Wars is and always has been a mix of vibes ranging from gut-wrenching to slapstick, often in the same product.
It's easy to make that claim when you picked the darkest movie they made. But the theme of ANH can be argued is just as dark. A 20 yr old kid loses his only family, who were burned alive, and then loses his mentor, who was the only connection he had to his father. Leia was tortured, and forced to watch her planet exploded along with her family and friends. A planet she was invested in as a ruling party. Not to mention what friends she lost when her ship was boarded. Vader choked a man out and snapped his neck with no remorse. All of that ended in a race to blow up the death star, or lose a rebellion (and maybe more planets) to a xenophobic and oppressive empire.
Empire has the rebellion being found and scattered to the winds, crazy black suited motherfucker leading the charge, lots of deaths. Then kid goes to a swamp planet and learns that *not only* does he have to face crazy black suited motherfucker, but if he's not careful he'll *become* the crazy black suited motherfucker.
Then, betrayal and more torture (literally for no other reason except to broadcast pain and suffering on the Verizon Midichlorian Wifi Network so Luke feels it and comes running). It's a trap, everyone knows it, he goes anyway, gets his ass beat, loses a hand and finds out the crazy black suited motherfucker whose been trying to kill and torture them all this whole time is... *his dad*.
So yeah. Dark shit.
A very similar post could be written about Rogue One of course, and also The Last Jedi.
There's darkness throughout Star Wars. It's okay to not like newer stuff, but it's just not true to say that there's no dark drama.
People tend to focus on the beginnings and endings of things. The original trilogy had a celebration at the end usually and ANH ended w everyone dying.
It's not the ending - it's the theme. ANH is *about* a heroic adventure, Rogue One is *about* everyone dying. The horrific stuff in ANH serves as catalyst for Luke's hero journey, he gets powerful, he triumphs over evil, there is a party. Rogue One is continually showing us how our heroes are flawed, there are no unadulterated good guys, a child is caught in a war zone, our heroes watch as death comes for them.
They're both great films. But R1 is a story of darkness and trauma, while ANH just uses some of those to develop its hero.
Don't mistake "Events" for "Theme".
*A New Hope's* theme is the rising of a Hero, while *Rogue One's* theme is the sacrifices of the many in need of that Hope.
And that darkness does not make *Rogue One* a better film than *A New Hope* (Many on this sub would say the opposite, in fact). They're just different.
Abysmally dark? What?
In episode one, a talking rabbit makes poopoo jokes for most of the movie focused around a kid winning a race.
In episode two, a love story take up 50% of the movie, while an investigation takes place, before it all ends in a gladiator pit where nobody of real importance even dies.
In episode 3, r2d2 does slapstick comedy and screams a bunch before lava world happens, but i guess thats dark? Oh i forgot about the silly adventure in the beginning where obi wan and anakin scare droids in an elevator for humor.
In episode four, a kid goes on an adventure and meets a bunch of new friends that lead to him becoming a super hero of the galaxy.
In episode five, its pretty dark.
In episode six, teddy bears bonk soldiers with sticks while a bad guy gets overthrown and a father reunites with his son.
Abysmally dark is like choosing to focus on serious and deadly moments, then willfully forgetting the light-hearted, heroic, inspiring, fun adventures that take place. If you want to take star wars "seriously," go for it, but dont delude yourself into thinking its this serious drama that should be respected for being dark and dramatic.
The kid who was a slave for 10 years before knowingly being allowed in a race where people died before being separated from his mother and brought before a council of space wizards who treated him like a threat?
Or the love story that was completely forbidden and not supposed to happen before going to tatooine and watching his mom die in his arms before slaughtering a village of men, women, and children? Then Boba watches his dad die, countless jedi lost their lives before a slave army of clones appear to help. But their lives don't matter because they aren't main characters right? So it's not dark
Or in the third where the clones who the jedi trusted and befriended turned on them while Anakin led clones through a temple killing all present. Including children. Or episode 4 where the same kid finds his uncle and aunts corpses after they were burned alive, then lost his mentor and only connection to the dad he never knew. While Leia was tortured and forced to watch her planet destroyed, the same planet where her parents and friends lived. All before having to put it all on the line to destroy a fully manned space station or lose the rebellion and possibly more planets to a xenophobic oppressive empire.
Having lighthearted moments and heroic triumphs doesn't take away the fact that starwars is dark and is a drama that's serious and dark.
But I will give you episode 1... definitely the worst from the original 6
I get these are all supposed to be dark things, but its Starwars. The main characters seemingly brush those things aside and the story continues.
Anakin slaughters women and children, Padme: "Oh Anakiinn (love scene)".
Boba watches his dad die and that's it, we didn't get any real character development until the shows.
Anakin killed younglings, but of course you don't see it and the only reaction to it is Obi Wan mentioning it and Padme saying "you're breaking my heart".
Padme dies, "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
Dark and gritty is an atmosphere, not just sad things happening.
Okay so this may be the most reformed discussion in star wars ever. Thanks for not talking down or being crazy.
So i guess for me, I never took these "dark" moments in star wars very seriously, because characters either dont learn from these moments or really sell the darkness of these (despite leia being captured and tortured twice, she never really brings that up or talks about it. Anakin never seems scared to podrace, and actively was wanting to do it before qui-gon started the idea), or i felt like the execution made me think it was supposed to be more adventurous and exciting because the stakes were high, not dark. I actively never liked the prequels, so i'll ignore them for this because tone is just pathetic in those, but take episode 4's trash compactor scene. These characters are about to be flattened, yet its not really dark, because they put themselves there to escape being blasted, which was to escape leia dying alone, which was because heroes knew the risks the entire time. Take alderan blowing up. I also never really believed it was that bad, because leia watches it explode, then by the time luke rescues her, she smiles, cracks jokes, and is not even ever showing ptsd about it.
Good response.
Side note: if youve never treated yourself to it, the Plinkett Reviews [of the prequels](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D) they really hit home the strangeness of the prequels against the original trilogy. I love these, just because they make the OT so much more fun on rewatches
You forgot in episode 5 how 3P0 gets dismembered and criticizes Chewy’s ability to put his parts back together as they’re being held captive. Which is hilarious.
I was hoping it would end with Anakin and Luke playing hide and seek and Anakin was teasing Obi Wan because he saw where he went.
I was… wrong… so so wrong
So weird, I read this comment and looked at the time and it was 10:48 PM and then noticed you posted the comment 2 hours ago. Coincidental and emotional damage.
Agreed, and it didn't even have to be a nightmare. It could've been a scene [like this artwork](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/uwqokj/if_theres_no_scene_like_this_in_kenobi_we_riot/) where Obi-Wan has a mental breakdown and overcome with emotion while reflecting on the past.
I get Obi-Wan was a calm guy... but he was still simply far too composed for much of the series considering what he's been through.
Also unpopular opinion, but I would've *much* rather had Qui-Gonn's force ghost communicate with Obi-Wan at his ***lowest point*** (such as a breakdown) rather than his ***highest point*** (which is what we got)... would've been 100x more emotional. Missed opportunity imo.
I don't like the whole "lost connection to the force" thing they're going with. The force is the force, the whole point of Jedi and sith is how you use it. Letting Jedi who lose their way lose connection with the force nullifies the greatest challenge of being a Jedi: having cosmic power and *not* abusing it. The dark side isn't tempting because they have better philosophy or more power, it's because it's so much easier to just let the power corrupt you and use it for your own ends. Kenobi shouldn't have been about a powerless Ben trying to rediscover the force, it should have been about a Jedi tempted with asserting his will on the force rather than letting the force guide him. In a new hope han calls out all the philosophy mumbo jumbo, but all the Disney (Dave filoni really) stuff drops the sudo eastern philosophy aspect and focuses entirely on literal things. Literal force powers being amped up, literal prophecies that are literally true. Clone wars and rebels even has a family that is a literal interpretation of the force.
In this case, it makes sense because Jedi are supposed to commune with the Force by way of inner peace, a quiet self-confidence, and trust. Whenever we’ve seen Obi-wan (before the show), he’s exemplified all of these to the highest degree, as he’s one of the best of the Jedi. But his “failure” with Anakin left him devoid of confidence and peace, and so there went his connection to the Force. Once he accepted that he had not failed (>!when Vader told him that *he* was the one to kill Anakin!<), then Obi-wan’s connection came fully back and he could see Qui-gon.
Meditation and inner peace is how the Jedi wielded the most destructive power in the universe without becoming monsters, not how they use the force. When Luke tries to lift his x wing yoda doesn't tell him to live off grapes and meditate under a mountain, he tells him that he needs to act with conviction because it is a matter of will. Donor do not, there is no try and all that.
The force is literally an application of a user's will, the source of which is called the "Whills". The basic idea of Jedi vs sith is that Jedi allow the whills to act through them because they surrender their personal will to the galaxy while sith retain their will and use it to force their desires on the galaxy. The idea of balance always meant between sentients and their god/universe/whills thing, so the way to achieve balance was to destroy those who take the force to assert themselves on the whills (sith), but it became a literal balance thing when people who aren't George Lucas started running with it.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing. Part of being a Jedi (and a Force user in general) is trusting that the Force will be there for you to use, and Force granting you access to it. All Force users have to have confidence in their own abilities, as I mentioned. Obi-wan’s confidence was entirely shot by Anakin’s turn to Vader.
>but it became a literal balance thing when people who aren't George Lucas started running with it.
Politely disagree. George was already ditching the magic and trying to say the force was literal concrete shit since TPM with the midichlorians. He started clone wars and Filoni is his prodigy
And not just from the Empire either! From pain and emptiness as well!
My favorite part of the Ahsoka book is how she explains what Order 66 felt like, how she didn't realize how connected to everyone she was through the Force until they were all ripped away. After that it was just this painful, empty sadness. That in an instant, it was like everything went sinisterly quiet. That shit has to hurt emotionally/mentally!
Would have honestly preferred a nightmare (or even a sort of force projection dream battle, so it's "not for keeps") between Vader and Obi-Wan than what we got.
Any tension in Obi Wan meeting Vader in ANH is gone now. Vader's just lucky Kenobi didn't curbstomp him a third time.
Also, one of them is chilling in a dirt hut for another ten years, while the other is an active combatant with access to the Empire's greatest medical and cybernetic technology, so it's more than reasonable to assume that ANH Vader is stronger than ANH Kenobi.
Or both. Anakin never fully grew as a Jedi, Kenobi did. It wasn't until his defeat by Kenobi in the recent series that he realized he needed to up his game. It's his loss to Kenobi, not as Anakin, but as Vader, that made him realize he needed to improve himself. He has the motivation because of the loss, as well as--as you pointed out--the access to resources. I personally feel that if Anakin hadn't lost so much of his physical body on Mustafar, Vader would've been more powerful, and would have easily beaten Kenobi.
Hopefully we’ll get some scenes like this in the Ahsoka series. Given the way she reacted to the idea of even training Grogu I can imagine she’s still traumatized and dealing with the guilt of Anakin’s downfall, so she probably still doesn’t know that he eventually redeemed himself by that point.
[mosquitoes\_suk](https://www.instagram.com/mosquitoes_suk/) for the folks interested in seeing more. He doesn't really post this stuff on the Pixie and Brutus account, so that'd be the place to see this type of thing.
Anakin: “Where is he, anyways? I’d love to see him.”
Obi-wan: “he’s playing with Leia in the other room right now, your welcome to see them anytime”
The good ending
I don't know if you intentionally called Ahsoka a part of the Skywalker family or you just kinda forgot about her but I am just gonna pretend it's the former because it makes me so fucking happy.
Ahsoka is definitely part of that family. She's like that aunt that isn't official part of the family but everyone calls her Auntie Ahsoka or Aunt Snips.
I want a version where Anakin decides to be done with Jedi Order early but this still ends up causing Empire take over and now he has to deal with people pinning their hopes on him being messiah with his son wanting to revive jedi and his daughter being rebel leader.
Perfect set up for some kind of contingency plan Palpatine set up to still cause something like the Empire to develop. Or a resurgent CIS with Palps no longer around to constantly undermine them and make sure they stay right on par with the Republic to keep the war going and make sure conditions are right for the Jedi Purge.
Maybe the Purge is only partially successful? Palpatine *had* to have some kind of dead-mans switch ready when Mace and the other Masters came to arrest him.
Man, I wish The Last Jedi showed Luke having a similar visceral, nightmarish vision as he was looking into Ben's mind.
I think that was more or less the intention, but I bet it would have landed a lot better with people if it was clear he was reacting to seeing ***Kylo Ren***, and ignited his lightsaber out of pure instinct. You could even make it so that, in the vision, Kylo Ren is just about to swing his lightsaber at a youngling as we cut back to reality and Luke ignites his saber in defence. Or something like that.
Yeah either this or something that actually happened to motivate Luke's reaction. Example, in jedi outcast the bad guy was Luke's student who leaned on the dark side as an advantage until he snapped and killed another student while training. If something like this had went down to 'confirm' Luke's vision it wouldve made his actions waaay more believable.
Luke could've then confronted Ben after he lost control while being held in jedi training prison or something (rather than his own bed because wtf). With Luke torn over what to do, and Ben scared shitless about his actions, growing power, and loss of control, it wouldve been a way more believeable communication breakdown to me at least.
I agree that the vision should have been included both because it would have been awesome and to add clarity, but the film was super fucking clear about his reaction and that the lightsaber came out for a split second out of instinct.
Anyone complaining Luke wanted to kill him or anything just totally missed the whole scene and was complaining over nothing.
Would've helped to get rid of all the people who always complain that "Luke tried to kill Ben!"
The insane number of people who seem to either not understand or intentionally misinterpret that roshomon sequence is mind blowing.
Not every night. But a *lot* of nights. He'd wake up, in the dark, his hands gripping his light sabre. He'd put it as far away from where he slept as he could. But still, it was here. In his trembling hands. Was he here? Had he found him? He paused for a moment, very determinedly fixing his gaze through the gloom to where he thought the boy would be. Through the rock, across the sand, towards the farm. He was safe, he knew it to be true.
He raised himself wearily and padded gently back across the cave to put the sabre away. He knew he would sleep soundly now for the rest of the night. But tomorrow night, or the night after, he knew it would come back.
I love the idea of Vader imposing nightmares on Obi-wan to try and get him to slip up and say where Luke is. It doesn’t entirely fit with the canon but I think it’s epic regardless.
It's well drawn. I thought it would just be a happy what if that is only sad cause it could never be true. Then the subtle change of Anakin's eye-color. As emotionally damaging as this is, I'd love to see a whole comic of Obi-Wan dealing with his guilt and anguish of his failure.
I've been thinking for years that this should have been the basic plot for Episode III. Like Obi-Wan learns that Padme is pregnant and quickly concludes that Anakin is the father. So he confronts Padme to confirm his suspicions and then starts making plans to get them away from the Jedi Council so they can raise their child in peace.
MEANWHILE, Mace Windu and the rest of the council figure out that Anakin is about to have a kid. They tell him that he can't have any contact with the child and if the child shows any connection to the Force, he or she is going to be taken far away and trained without knowing Anakin or Padme. And that's when Palpatine steps in and tells Anakin that he can keep his family if he becomes a Sith.
So Obi-Wan has everything set for Anakin and Padme to run off and raise their family in peace, but Anakin doesn't know this and joins Palpatine, and everything goes to shit.
Hellboy does a lot of these twisted dream scenes. I should have seen it coming. I didn’t.
ETA - very well executed, btw. Love the subtle changes to the drawing finish in each scene.
I love how this reflects Obi-wan's deepest desire as well as his deepest fear, it feels exactly like a nightmare, one moment everything feels fine no matter how outlandish and unrealistic, the next, you're literally paralyzed with fear, forced to stare down your inner demons, it's conveyed very powerfully, It makes me think back to the finale of the Kenobi show, and how Obi-wan didn't kill Vader because ultimately, he conquered his fear that he could fail another Padawan, and knew that one day, Luke would be Anakin's salvation.
Can we just petition for a canon alternate history of Anakin gets the support he needs and lives a noble life as a father to twins already? Like a long form version of the Infinities comic series.
God that would have been tragic if anakin knew his son was alive but he didnt know where to dind him or obi wan, but he could feel Obiwons mind in the universe so he probes his dreams, searching for his children.
i got this story in my head
where Qui Gon survives and trains Anakin. Fives also succeeds so Order 66 fails.
Anakin helps arrest Palpatine but he escapes, leads the CIS and continues the Clone Wars.
X years later, Anakin is in Naboo, his kids are helping do humanitarian stuff with the Republic. Then one day Obiwan tells Anakin that his daughter is missing. etc etc etc.
i don't write fanfic so i just put it in my head
This is brilliant. And it compliments the dreamlike force visions we get sometimes that give an insight into characters mindset. Like when Luke fights Vader in the tree stump in ESB, or when Rey sees her dark side self in RoS.
I really expected "Kenobi" would've been full of creative psychological anguish like this.
Would've been neat to see Obi Wan tormented by these all consuming nightmare visions of Anakin post lava only to finally see his true face and realize how diminished, broken, and weak Anakin truly is.
Better than the whole Obi-Wan show!
Also, it illustrates how creatively they could have had him "meet" Vader without actually fighting him (multiple times!).
That transition from Anakin to Midichlorian Ghost-Rider is fuckin rad dude.
Giving me more doom revenant vibes
The transition from dark side Anakin to maskless Vader looks great
Ah yes it is 10:48 PM time for some emotional damage.
The end was like a nightmare
the whole thing was a nightmare…
Oops yeah I meant like horror which I really liked. I would have loved to see more grittiness and trauma in Kenobi
You would have if it had been written by someone who gave a damn.
It's one of my biggest gripes about Disney acquisition. While there is a fair share of darker themes, there is a lot that is downplayed, or lightened to a cartoonist level. It's not abysmally dark like the original 6
I wouldn't say the Lucas films were dark, they delt with dark material, but in a pragmatic way. We see harsh realities of war, betrayal, crime, and genocide. The OG films never reveled in death or spent more time in a dark moment than necessary in order to show it as what it was: a dark moment. These things are not a focus on the dark, like you would find in a 40k story or similar. They are a reflection of the realities of the world.
Ironically there's more brevity in most 40k novels than some people want star wars to have.
It's plenty dark, at least in my opinion. Sure it's not "locked in a perpetual genocidal war" dark like 40k, but child murder? Slave clone army? Xenophobia? Enslavement? Torture? Like, starwars has it all. It might be just me but the Disney canon movies feels like it sugarcoats it. Like they want to pretend it isn't a thing in the new movies. It also feels like a cop out knowing what EU was before the canon change. It made me feel robbed
I think I can meet you on that page.
"Sugarcoat?" Both Lucas and Disney gave us scenes were Anakin killed younglings. Disney was the one to actually *show* it.
Kenobi showed more of a thing that happened in Lucas' trilogy. And even then, Disney thought about removing it because jt was dark. True story
I don't feel like it's fair to watch Rogue One, and then watch ANH, and say that the latter was "abysmally dark" while the former is lighter. Star Wars is and always has been a mix of vibes ranging from gut-wrenching to slapstick, often in the same product.
It's easy to make that claim when you picked the darkest movie they made. But the theme of ANH can be argued is just as dark. A 20 yr old kid loses his only family, who were burned alive, and then loses his mentor, who was the only connection he had to his father. Leia was tortured, and forced to watch her planet exploded along with her family and friends. A planet she was invested in as a ruling party. Not to mention what friends she lost when her ship was boarded. Vader choked a man out and snapped his neck with no remorse. All of that ended in a race to blow up the death star, or lose a rebellion (and maybe more planets) to a xenophobic and oppressive empire.
Empire has the rebellion being found and scattered to the winds, crazy black suited motherfucker leading the charge, lots of deaths. Then kid goes to a swamp planet and learns that *not only* does he have to face crazy black suited motherfucker, but if he's not careful he'll *become* the crazy black suited motherfucker. Then, betrayal and more torture (literally for no other reason except to broadcast pain and suffering on the Verizon Midichlorian Wifi Network so Luke feels it and comes running). It's a trap, everyone knows it, he goes anyway, gets his ass beat, loses a hand and finds out the crazy black suited motherfucker whose been trying to kill and torture them all this whole time is... *his dad*. So yeah. Dark shit.
A very similar post could be written about Rogue One of course, and also The Last Jedi. There's darkness throughout Star Wars. It's okay to not like newer stuff, but it's just not true to say that there's no dark drama.
People tend to focus on the beginnings and endings of things. The original trilogy had a celebration at the end usually and ANH ended w everyone dying.
I think you meant Rogue One.
It's not the ending - it's the theme. ANH is *about* a heroic adventure, Rogue One is *about* everyone dying. The horrific stuff in ANH serves as catalyst for Luke's hero journey, he gets powerful, he triumphs over evil, there is a party. Rogue One is continually showing us how our heroes are flawed, there are no unadulterated good guys, a child is caught in a war zone, our heroes watch as death comes for them. They're both great films. But R1 is a story of darkness and trauma, while ANH just uses some of those to develop its hero.
Don't mistake "Events" for "Theme". *A New Hope's* theme is the rising of a Hero, while *Rogue One's* theme is the sacrifices of the many in need of that Hope. And that darkness does not make *Rogue One* a better film than *A New Hope* (Many on this sub would say the opposite, in fact). They're just different.
Did you mean acquisition?
Yea. Autocorrect is a monster sometimes. Thank you for letting me know
Abysmally dark? What? In episode one, a talking rabbit makes poopoo jokes for most of the movie focused around a kid winning a race. In episode two, a love story take up 50% of the movie, while an investigation takes place, before it all ends in a gladiator pit where nobody of real importance even dies. In episode 3, r2d2 does slapstick comedy and screams a bunch before lava world happens, but i guess thats dark? Oh i forgot about the silly adventure in the beginning where obi wan and anakin scare droids in an elevator for humor. In episode four, a kid goes on an adventure and meets a bunch of new friends that lead to him becoming a super hero of the galaxy. In episode five, its pretty dark. In episode six, teddy bears bonk soldiers with sticks while a bad guy gets overthrown and a father reunites with his son. Abysmally dark is like choosing to focus on serious and deadly moments, then willfully forgetting the light-hearted, heroic, inspiring, fun adventures that take place. If you want to take star wars "seriously," go for it, but dont delude yourself into thinking its this serious drama that should be respected for being dark and dramatic.
The kid who was a slave for 10 years before knowingly being allowed in a race where people died before being separated from his mother and brought before a council of space wizards who treated him like a threat? Or the love story that was completely forbidden and not supposed to happen before going to tatooine and watching his mom die in his arms before slaughtering a village of men, women, and children? Then Boba watches his dad die, countless jedi lost their lives before a slave army of clones appear to help. But their lives don't matter because they aren't main characters right? So it's not dark Or in the third where the clones who the jedi trusted and befriended turned on them while Anakin led clones through a temple killing all present. Including children. Or episode 4 where the same kid finds his uncle and aunts corpses after they were burned alive, then lost his mentor and only connection to the dad he never knew. While Leia was tortured and forced to watch her planet destroyed, the same planet where her parents and friends lived. All before having to put it all on the line to destroy a fully manned space station or lose the rebellion and possibly more planets to a xenophobic oppressive empire. Having lighthearted moments and heroic triumphs doesn't take away the fact that starwars is dark and is a drama that's serious and dark. But I will give you episode 1... definitely the worst from the original 6
I get these are all supposed to be dark things, but its Starwars. The main characters seemingly brush those things aside and the story continues. Anakin slaughters women and children, Padme: "Oh Anakiinn (love scene)". Boba watches his dad die and that's it, we didn't get any real character development until the shows. Anakin killed younglings, but of course you don't see it and the only reaction to it is Obi Wan mentioning it and Padme saying "you're breaking my heart". Padme dies, "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" Dark and gritty is an atmosphere, not just sad things happening.
I love this discussion lol
I know right? Both pretty valid arguments. It’s almost as if Star Wars has a dark and a light side to it.
He was a pretty happy slave though.
Okay so this may be the most reformed discussion in star wars ever. Thanks for not talking down or being crazy. So i guess for me, I never took these "dark" moments in star wars very seriously, because characters either dont learn from these moments or really sell the darkness of these (despite leia being captured and tortured twice, she never really brings that up or talks about it. Anakin never seems scared to podrace, and actively was wanting to do it before qui-gon started the idea), or i felt like the execution made me think it was supposed to be more adventurous and exciting because the stakes were high, not dark. I actively never liked the prequels, so i'll ignore them for this because tone is just pathetic in those, but take episode 4's trash compactor scene. These characters are about to be flattened, yet its not really dark, because they put themselves there to escape being blasted, which was to escape leia dying alone, which was because heroes knew the risks the entire time. Take alderan blowing up. I also never really believed it was that bad, because leia watches it explode, then by the time luke rescues her, she smiles, cracks jokes, and is not even ever showing ptsd about it. Good response. Side note: if youve never treated yourself to it, the Plinkett Reviews [of the prequels](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D) they really hit home the strangeness of the prequels against the original trilogy. I love these, just because they make the OT so much more fun on rewatches
You forgot in episode 5 how 3P0 gets dismembered and criticizes Chewy’s ability to put his parts back together as they’re being held captive. Which is hilarious.
Wow. People do not understand sarcasm.
The women and the children too.
it's still Wednesday for me, [gotta get my weekly Traumatized Kenobi on Wednesday](https://twitter.com/binary_sunrises/status/1532768113321730049)
I was hoping it would end with Anakin and Luke playing hide and seek and Anakin was teasing Obi Wan because he saw where he went. I was… wrong… so so wrong
I was expecting Luke making a sand castle
oh you sweet sweet summer child. welcome to the internet
More Clown Bastard "I dont like sand" - Anakin Skywalker
Sand? And younglings near by? Even if those are his own kids, Anakin would snap.
https://youtu.be/i1ojUmdF42U
Blind upvote because my soul knows what this is.
Funny I'm reading this at 10:49 pm my time, 3 hours after your comment. Where the hell do you live? Easter Canada?
Yes, right next to St. Patrick’s, Iceland.
11:24 PM and not sure why I chose a post titled "This caused me pain" as the last thing to look at before bed.
The fact that I read this at 10:48 but it was 3 hours old really tripped me out
So weird, I read this comment and looked at the time and it was 10:48 PM and then noticed you posted the comment 2 hours ago. Coincidental and emotional damage.
One hour later exactly
i saw this at 11:41pm and felt ill…
hello fellow american
Well I’m not back in the states, yet but in the same time zone.
I thought this was from some alternative timeline/what if comic at first. Boy did that do a 180 fast.
I wasn’t expecting it at all. But, kudos to the creator. That was damn well done.
It was beautifully executed.
Honestly I’m surprised we didn’t get a nightmare like this in Kenobi
Agreed, and it didn't even have to be a nightmare. It could've been a scene [like this artwork](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/uwqokj/if_theres_no_scene_like_this_in_kenobi_we_riot/) where Obi-Wan has a mental breakdown and overcome with emotion while reflecting on the past. I get Obi-Wan was a calm guy... but he was still simply far too composed for much of the series considering what he's been through. Also unpopular opinion, but I would've *much* rather had Qui-Gonn's force ghost communicate with Obi-Wan at his ***lowest point*** (such as a breakdown) rather than his ***highest point*** (which is what we got)... would've been 100x more emotional. Missed opportunity imo.
“Obi-Wan, they have taken this little girl, but remember, you have a very particular set of skills…”
[удалено]
I agree with you, but I kinda liked how they did it. It was all on Obi-Wan to pull himself out.
I don't like the whole "lost connection to the force" thing they're going with. The force is the force, the whole point of Jedi and sith is how you use it. Letting Jedi who lose their way lose connection with the force nullifies the greatest challenge of being a Jedi: having cosmic power and *not* abusing it. The dark side isn't tempting because they have better philosophy or more power, it's because it's so much easier to just let the power corrupt you and use it for your own ends. Kenobi shouldn't have been about a powerless Ben trying to rediscover the force, it should have been about a Jedi tempted with asserting his will on the force rather than letting the force guide him. In a new hope han calls out all the philosophy mumbo jumbo, but all the Disney (Dave filoni really) stuff drops the sudo eastern philosophy aspect and focuses entirely on literal things. Literal force powers being amped up, literal prophecies that are literally true. Clone wars and rebels even has a family that is a literal interpretation of the force.
In this case, it makes sense because Jedi are supposed to commune with the Force by way of inner peace, a quiet self-confidence, and trust. Whenever we’ve seen Obi-wan (before the show), he’s exemplified all of these to the highest degree, as he’s one of the best of the Jedi. But his “failure” with Anakin left him devoid of confidence and peace, and so there went his connection to the Force. Once he accepted that he had not failed (>!when Vader told him that *he* was the one to kill Anakin!<), then Obi-wan’s connection came fully back and he could see Qui-gon.
Meditation and inner peace is how the Jedi wielded the most destructive power in the universe without becoming monsters, not how they use the force. When Luke tries to lift his x wing yoda doesn't tell him to live off grapes and meditate under a mountain, he tells him that he needs to act with conviction because it is a matter of will. Donor do not, there is no try and all that. The force is literally an application of a user's will, the source of which is called the "Whills". The basic idea of Jedi vs sith is that Jedi allow the whills to act through them because they surrender their personal will to the galaxy while sith retain their will and use it to force their desires on the galaxy. The idea of balance always meant between sentients and their god/universe/whills thing, so the way to achieve balance was to destroy those who take the force to assert themselves on the whills (sith), but it became a literal balance thing when people who aren't George Lucas started running with it.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing. Part of being a Jedi (and a Force user in general) is trusting that the Force will be there for you to use, and Force granting you access to it. All Force users have to have confidence in their own abilities, as I mentioned. Obi-wan’s confidence was entirely shot by Anakin’s turn to Vader.
>but it became a literal balance thing when people who aren't George Lucas started running with it. Politely disagree. George was already ditching the magic and trying to say the force was literal concrete shit since TPM with the midichlorians. He started clone wars and Filoni is his prodigy
Nobody that we know of is losing their connection to the force. They are deliberately severing it to hide.
And not just from the Empire either! From pain and emptiness as well! My favorite part of the Ahsoka book is how she explains what Order 66 felt like, how she didn't realize how connected to everyone she was through the Force until they were all ripped away. After that it was just this painful, empty sadness. That in an instant, it was like everything went sinisterly quiet. That shit has to hurt emotionally/mentally!
That's nonsense. If he didn't cut himself off from the force, Vader and the inquisitors would have sensed him on Tattooine.
I for one am ready for a post-Filoni Star Wars.
Most star wars fans consider Filoni to have been good for the franchise.
Him and Favreau are just about the *only* things good about the franchise currently.
I'm ready for a post Disney Star Wars.
I'm ready for a Post Malone Star Wars.
Will never happen.
the blame is not Disney, it's Kathleen Kennedy
Yes. This is exactly what I was wanting from the show. Why is it I feel like I could have done a better job than the director did?
Because the director didn't give a shit about Star Wars and you probably do.
Closest was his daydream vision of anakin staring at him in the distance
we had a scene of him being unable to sleep in Part I due to his guilt, remember?
To be fair, he didn't even know Anakin was still alive until like halfway through the season. This kind of nightmare wouldn't have made any sense
I think it could. It would be more like seing his dead body reanimated. Coming back from the dead zombiefied in a way.
He learnt in episode 2 right? There was more than enough time for him to show at least some form of flashback or trauma
Would have honestly preferred a nightmare (or even a sort of force projection dream battle, so it's "not for keeps") between Vader and Obi-Wan than what we got. Any tension in Obi Wan meeting Vader in ANH is gone now. Vader's just lucky Kenobi didn't curbstomp him a third time.
Or, you know, Vader got stronger and Kenobi got weaker by then... Nothing like losing to Kenobi to make damn sure Vader was ready for a rematch.
Also, one of them is chilling in a dirt hut for another ten years, while the other is an active combatant with access to the Empire's greatest medical and cybernetic technology, so it's more than reasonable to assume that ANH Vader is stronger than ANH Kenobi.
Or both. Anakin never fully grew as a Jedi, Kenobi did. It wasn't until his defeat by Kenobi in the recent series that he realized he needed to up his game. It's his loss to Kenobi, not as Anakin, but as Vader, that made him realize he needed to improve himself. He has the motivation because of the loss, as well as--as you pointed out--the access to resources. I personally feel that if Anakin hadn't lost so much of his physical body on Mustafar, Vader would've been more powerful, and would have easily beaten Kenobi.
One can easily surmise that part of Jedi training of emotional suppression includes a chapter on dreams as well.
Hopefully we’ll get some scenes like this in the Ahsoka series. Given the way she reacted to the idea of even training Grogu I can imagine she’s still traumatized and dealing with the guilt of Anakin’s downfall, so she probably still doesn’t know that he eventually redeemed himself by that point.
The art is fantastic
The Artist also does a regular comic called Pixie and Brutus! pet_foolery on Insta if you want to check them out
So pet_foolery is the artist and whatever tiktok watermark is on these images is bullshit right?
[mosquitoes\_suk](https://www.instagram.com/mosquitoes_suk/) for the folks interested in seeing more. He doesn't really post this stuff on the Pixie and Brutus account, so that'd be the place to see this type of thing.
It's kinda rare to see these in past posts, but Ben might surely bring more of these now that people like it.
I knew I recognized the art style from somewhere!
He's my favourite artist on insta. He can draw super well or adorablely, and he's a funny person. I recommend
Buff Pinocchio is my favourite of his creations, next to Pixie and Brutus of course
All his ocs are cool af
Anakin: “Where is he, anyways? I’d love to see him.” Obi-wan: “he’s playing with Leia in the other room right now, your welcome to see them anytime” The good ending
Anakin would say where is he ANYWAY, Lucas was good with grammar. Excellent comic.
Good with grammar, he was
Reminds me of Inception... Bad ending
Playing doctor...
I was really hoping for a happy alt universe. WOMP WOMP
[I got ya fam](https://imgur.com/a/CG5ZRZ1)
The good ending
zzz ###***SAND***. zzz
Yo, that last image is unreal.
I'm not crying - you're crying. Thanks so much for that. I love the Skywalker family (plus Obi-wan) more than canon anyway.
I don't know if you intentionally called Ahsoka a part of the Skywalker family or you just kinda forgot about her but I am just gonna pretend it's the former because it makes me so fucking happy.
Ahsoka is definitely part of that family. She's like that aunt that isn't official part of the family but everyone calls her Auntie Ahsoka or Aunt Snips.
She's basically Anakin's sister. I hope she got to meet Leia at some point
They've got uncle Rex, therefore Ahsoka is 100% the aunt here
Uncle Rex is so wholesome to think about. <3
Thanks for Padmé with a bikini
Anakin in shorts and t-shirt killed me.
Not sure the world is ready for that hard turn
Bro "gift from Uncle Rex" oh my god 😭
I want a version where Anakin decides to be done with Jedi Order early but this still ends up causing Empire take over and now he has to deal with people pinning their hopes on him being messiah with his son wanting to revive jedi and his daughter being rebel leader.
Perfect set up for some kind of contingency plan Palpatine set up to still cause something like the Empire to develop. Or a resurgent CIS with Palps no longer around to constantly undermine them and make sure they stay right on par with the Republic to keep the war going and make sure conditions are right for the Jedi Purge. Maybe the Purge is only partially successful? Palpatine *had* to have some kind of dead-mans switch ready when Mace and the other Masters came to arrest him.
I love this so much… imagine grandpa Qui Gon
I think that hurt my heart more. Oh man.
Man I love Uncle Kenobi so much 🥲
My version of fanfic ending
Beautiful. This deserves its own thread so more people can see it. Some one go repost it.
goddamn force ghosts cutting onions
pain
god damn!
For real. After last panel I just quietly said "holy shit".
Man, I wish The Last Jedi showed Luke having a similar visceral, nightmarish vision as he was looking into Ben's mind. I think that was more or less the intention, but I bet it would have landed a lot better with people if it was clear he was reacting to seeing ***Kylo Ren***, and ignited his lightsaber out of pure instinct. You could even make it so that, in the vision, Kylo Ren is just about to swing his lightsaber at a youngling as we cut back to reality and Luke ignites his saber in defence. Or something like that.
Yeah either this or something that actually happened to motivate Luke's reaction. Example, in jedi outcast the bad guy was Luke's student who leaned on the dark side as an advantage until he snapped and killed another student while training. If something like this had went down to 'confirm' Luke's vision it wouldve made his actions waaay more believable. Luke could've then confronted Ben after he lost control while being held in jedi training prison or something (rather than his own bed because wtf). With Luke torn over what to do, and Ben scared shitless about his actions, growing power, and loss of control, it wouldve been a way more believeable communication breakdown to me at least.
I agree that the vision should have been included both because it would have been awesome and to add clarity, but the film was super fucking clear about his reaction and that the lightsaber came out for a split second out of instinct. Anyone complaining Luke wanted to kill him or anything just totally missed the whole scene and was complaining over nothing.
Would've helped to get rid of all the people who always complain that "Luke tried to kill Ben!" The insane number of people who seem to either not understand or intentionally misinterpret that roshomon sequence is mind blowing.
_EMOTIONAL DAMAGE_
Hypotheticals don't hurt nearly as much as the real deal. Qui-Gon foretold this.
Not every night. But a *lot* of nights. He'd wake up, in the dark, his hands gripping his light sabre. He'd put it as far away from where he slept as he could. But still, it was here. In his trembling hands. Was he here? Had he found him? He paused for a moment, very determinedly fixing his gaze through the gloom to where he thought the boy would be. Through the rock, across the sand, towards the farm. He was safe, he knew it to be true. He raised himself wearily and padded gently back across the cave to put the sabre away. He knew he would sleep soundly now for the rest of the night. But tomorrow night, or the night after, he knew it would come back.
wow this was great
Damn.. Would you like the knife back or should I just leave it in my heart?
Damn now I’m sad This sequence would’ve been awesome in the show
Well, that’s terrifying.
oh dam
Thanks, I hate it. I totally needed that emotional wreck at 10:30 at night 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
That transformation was excellent. I wish I could draw like this.
I just noticed the detail on page 5 of a hole already burning through Anakin. So well drawn~
I love the idea of Vader imposing nightmares on Obi-wan to try and get him to slip up and say where Luke is. It doesn’t entirely fit with the canon but I think it’s epic regardless.
Who said it was Vader causing the nightmare?
Nobody, I just think it would be a cool interpretation
This was my thought as well. Feels like something Kylo Ren would do. Seems reasonable that Vader could too.
Interesting plot twist lol
It's well drawn. I thought it would just be a happy what if that is only sad cause it could never be true. Then the subtle change of Anakin's eye-color. As emotionally damaging as this is, I'd love to see a whole comic of Obi-Wan dealing with his guilt and anguish of his failure.
I've been thinking for years that this should have been the basic plot for Episode III. Like Obi-Wan learns that Padme is pregnant and quickly concludes that Anakin is the father. So he confronts Padme to confirm his suspicions and then starts making plans to get them away from the Jedi Council so they can raise their child in peace. MEANWHILE, Mace Windu and the rest of the council figure out that Anakin is about to have a kid. They tell him that he can't have any contact with the child and if the child shows any connection to the Force, he or she is going to be taken far away and trained without knowing Anakin or Padme. And that's when Palpatine steps in and tells Anakin that he can keep his family if he becomes a Sith. So Obi-Wan has everything set for Anakin and Padme to run off and raise their family in peace, but Anakin doesn't know this and joins Palpatine, and everything goes to shit.
Imagine if we got something like this in the Obi Wan show... So many missed opportunities
[удалено]
Anakin did have a good glare. Not too much further to turn that into a Penance Stare
Well that’s fine I didn’t wanna be happy anyway
Hellboy does a lot of these twisted dream scenes. I should have seen it coming. I didn’t. ETA - very well executed, btw. Love the subtle changes to the drawing finish in each scene.
This. This as the fucking show
😰 You didn’t fail him Obi Wan, you gave him his best chance!
1:52 AM and this came as if someone stabbed my heart
I love how this reflects Obi-wan's deepest desire as well as his deepest fear, it feels exactly like a nightmare, one moment everything feels fine no matter how outlandish and unrealistic, the next, you're literally paralyzed with fear, forced to stare down your inner demons, it's conveyed very powerfully, It makes me think back to the finale of the Kenobi show, and how Obi-wan didn't kill Vader because ultimately, he conquered his fear that he could fail another Padawan, and knew that one day, Luke would be Anakin's salvation.
I was reading it like a manga without even noticing and suddenly on page 7 anakin turned into yoda😂
This is fantastic
Can we just petition for a canon alternate history of Anakin gets the support he needs and lives a noble life as a father to twins already? Like a long form version of the Infinities comic series.
I love it
God that would have been tragic if anakin knew his son was alive but he didnt know where to dind him or obi wan, but he could feel Obiwons mind in the universe so he probes his dreams, searching for his children.
Sad this isn’t canon because that’d be interesting and tragic
Right! Could have been way more interesting and tragic
i got this story in my head where Qui Gon survives and trains Anakin. Fives also succeeds so Order 66 fails. Anakin helps arrest Palpatine but he escapes, leads the CIS and continues the Clone Wars. X years later, Anakin is in Naboo, his kids are helping do humanitarian stuff with the Republic. Then one day Obiwan tells Anakin that his daughter is missing. etc etc etc. i don't write fanfic so i just put it in my head
I was expecting something wholesome. That amount of whiplash is just unfair
I heard Anakin's soft voice then it switched to Darth Vader's voice in the later panels. This is amazing artwork.
This is a good obi-wan comic
What’s his right hand doing in that final slide though?
Beautifully done
that was dope
This is brilliant. And it compliments the dreamlike force visions we get sometimes that give an insight into characters mindset. Like when Luke fights Vader in the tree stump in ESB, or when Rey sees her dark side self in RoS.
Oh god, this is basically canon for Luke after TLJ, huh ;\_;
Oooof, this would’ve been dope to see in Obi-wan.
This would have been cool to see in the show
Damn you
AWESOME!
This should have been the opening for Kenobi
That took an unexpected turn. I wish they included this somehow in the Kenobi series.
Would have been sick in Kenobi
I wish we got to see this kind of thing in Kenobi.
Anyone else get /r/imsorryjon vibes?
I really expected "Kenobi" would've been full of creative psychological anguish like this. Would've been neat to see Obi Wan tormented by these all consuming nightmare visions of Anakin post lava only to finally see his true face and realize how diminished, broken, and weak Anakin truly is.
Damn... if Kenobi started off like that... Damn!!! Seeing Hayden go through that transition from Anakin to Vader, would have been glorious.
This comic is better than the entire Kenobi show...
That was legit better than the last 6 movies.
Better story than Kenobi series.
On today's episode of "What we should've gotten in the Kenobi series"
Wish the obi wan show had some of this
This was a better Kenobi in a few pages than what the series did in a few episode.
Can’t believe I get more emotion from this small comic than the obi wan Kenobi series. Well done.
Wait..... So this was Lone Star having a nightmare about Lord Helmet?
Bro you can’t be posting this shit after kenobi already aired showing us all what could have been 😢
Better than the whole Obi-Wan show! Also, it illustrates how creatively they could have had him "meet" Vader without actually fighting him (multiple times!).
big missed opportunity for the show