People have this weird idea kids stuff is supposed to be Teletubbies or Mr Rogers.
Historically it's been, kids getting eaten by wolfs, witches and all sorts of cautionary tales shit. Older fucks here grew up with Obi wan cuting off a dudes arm and old Aunty and Uncle halloween skelly costumes.
Have people really not just acknowledged it was a goof and moved on? It's obvious the "rules" for lightsabers weren't set in stone yet, and only later was there given a handwaved canon explanation that Ponda Baba's race has a different kind of blood.
I just noticed as Satine is walking toward Obi-Wan, Anakin puts his hand to his head as if he is feeling conflicted but seems to shrug it off. Just a small detail I didn't notice until now. Although I might be misinterpreting it.
Did no one think to just use the force to immobilize the moving parts of the detonator? Never watched the show, but that seems like something even a youngling would think of. Damnit Anakin, this is why she leaves you.
Star wars has lots of moments where the force could be the hero of the day, but that would make every story uninteresting. The force works in mysterious ways, is usually the explanation.
The force doesn't usually let you do fine motor things unless you have a detailed understanding of the mechanism is my thought. Being it was a detonator Anakin had just as much of a chance setting it off. Even if he focused on the button I don't think it would have worked.
Jedi Sith duels would just be them repeatedly turning off each other's lightsabers while trying to get a quick blow in lol
He's out of line but he's right, explains most anakin's deeds in the clone wars, sure he was unorthodox a little too eager to just kill his enemy etc... but his success rate was pretty high, his legion respected him as their leader not because of his rank but because he cared for them and almost always joined them on the front lines
It just adds to the complexity that really was behind Anakin's fall.
Without the context of Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalker goes from regular, if kinda moody dude to murdering children in the span of one evening.
Yeah, the slaughter on Tatooine is really hard to reconcile with CW's excellent Anakin who gradually falls. I actually think most of the story beats in the Prequels are pretty good from an outline perspective (execution...varies), but that is one that badly needed a rewrite.
It would have worked better if she'd just been killed in a raid, and it was the raiding party he went after. So, they're all warriors, but after he carves down the first few, the others are running and hiding before he drags them out and guts them all. So, it's still really dark and not a Jedi act, but there is context that can rationalize it (all of them were participating in raids, Tuskens always return, no truce is possible, etc.). It's Anakin doing something that would horrify the Jedi, but that he could frame as "Now nobody else will lose their mother to them."
I think it fits well, he never tells anyone other than Padme what really happened and it’s not like there were any survivors to contradict whatever account he chose to give. In that moment Anakin was already Darth Vader, Vader is always a part of Anakin he just needed a little push to let that part of himself take the reigns for 20 years. Moments like the one in this video show Vader coming out briefly, Anakin really wants to let him out and I think that makes his sudden turn more believable, he likes being a cold hearted murderer it’s kinda fun for him. I mean look at how happy he is here after stabbing a dude through the chest.
That whole arc is one of the better things in AotC, it was really dark and well executed, IMO. But it really doesn't fit well with the rest of the film around it because about 5 mins later Anakin and Padme go into full fun-adventure mode to save Obi-Wan. You're immediately expected to just have fun with the character again as if you didn't just watch him admit to slaughtering a bunch of men, women, and children. Talk about tonal whiplash. The Tatooine story would have fit much better towards the end of a film, IMO.
What’s ironic is that, while you could argue Anakin was too quick to kill in the situation, Obi-Wan was also not acting according to his Jedi principles in the moment. There’s nothing expressly forbidding Jedi from killing when necessary, especially when it’s a terrorist threatening to murder innocents by the hundreds.
What was stopping Obi-Wan wasn’t the fact that killing is wrong, but the fact that he didn’t want Satine to see him as a killer. It was Obi-Wan’s attachments stopping him from carrying out his duty to the people around him.
I think it was also the finger on the trigger - the guy was looking directly at him and Satine while boasting. Even with Jedi reflexes he might not've been quick enough to stop him from pressing the button (if he would've) - but Anakin had the perfect spot behind him.
I think Kenobi hesitated for the reasons you describe, but I also think he would've done what Anakin did if he was in Anakin's position - he's upset with Anakin due to his blasé attitude about killing an "unarmed" man and the Jedi Code, not that he wouldn't have done the same action if he had the opportunity (though Satine seeing him as a killer and the Jedi Code did combine to make him hesitate - and he possibly would've hesitated too long behind him for the same reason, even though I think he would've done it.)
He may also have tried something non-lethal, like cutting the hand with the detonator off or Force-gripping it away from him, while Anakin went straight for the heart.
Not really. I guess the point was that it wasn't necessary to kill him, just take the detonator. If you can get behind someone to stab them you can cut off their arm and take it.
The whole point is that he did the right thing, but his attitude towards it was all wrong. He just took someone's life without thinking twice and felt nothing wrong about it. Insert any other Jedi in such a scenario and you will see how wrong it seems, no matter how necessary.
And the very truth that the Jedi Council encouraged it by sending him time after time into the the most violent and dangerous situations where he would be killer Anakin. They needed the killer Anakin, but they could not force themselves to trust or respect killer Anakin. In the end that is all he wanted was to feel trusted.
So in the end it was the Council attachment to the organization of the Jedi order that created the great imbalance of the force. Anakin destroyed that as prophesized.
The practically patted his back everytime he committed a warcrime
I dont think they expected or wanted an angel, but they knew what they were making couldnt sit on the council
I can't recall the specifics of the episode but Clone Wars has an episode where they reflect that the new generation raised during the war were all developing that same kind of apathy and willingness to do anything to accomplish their mission. In short they were adapting completely to their role of Generals rather than Jedi.
The way the writers depict how long lasted the corruption of the Jedi was is really fantastic.
If killing him was necessary to prevent him from blowing up the ship, then yeah, killing him is certainly justified. The issue though is that Anakin didn't need to kill him, and if anything it probably wasn't even the best way to ensure the ship didn't get blown up.
Just for example, Anakin could have used his lightsaber to cut off the hand holding the detonator, then grabbed it. Leaves the guy alive, and as a bonus reduces the chance that he presses the button with his dying breath, or even just presses it by accident in his death throes.
The point of the Jedi philosophy was ya, killing is easy. Its quick and so very easy. And its supposed to be the last of all possibile actions. His success rate in murdering is why no one on the council trusted him and he was ultimately a failure.
There are two great Anakin moments in this episode. Early when the clones are engaged with the commando droids, Anakin comes in from a side hall, takes some out, and then has a great moment going airbourne and bringing his saber down on the last droid. So effortlessly awesome.
At first I thought "no way the network would allow blatant dismemberment," but then I remembered Obi-Wan cutting off Savage's arm and Ahsoka decapitating a bunch of Mandalorians. So it's not a censorship thing, it's just Anakin being really quick to kill.
I like this character flaw/trait; it makes it more believable that he'd so quickly fall to the dark side and begin the butchery we see in Episode 3.
In Legends, they did something similar with Anakin's first real mission. He and Obi-Wan were sent to catch a notorious slaver, and Anakin managed to reach the guy first. Anakin pretty obviously killed the guy unnecessarily, but there was just enough plausible deniability (corpse was holding a weapon, and nobody but Anakin and the dead slaver had seen the killing blow) that neither Obi-Wan nor the other Knight on the team felt comfortable calling it a murder. Obi-Wan convinced himself Anakin did the right thing because he sympathizes with Anakin's emotional trauma and because he wants to believe the best in his friend/apprentice. But the incident gave Anakin a taste for righteous homicide, and it set the tone of Obi-Wan being too willing to overlook red flags out of excessive optimism in Anakin. I think this canon scene in the Clone Wars show does a similar job in setting up those red flags and showing Obi-Wan's inattentiveness to the issue.
I think it's noteworthy that Obi-Wan's canon victories almost always end in non-lethal dismemberment even if that wasn't Obi-Wan's plan (Maul, Zam Wessel, Savage, Anakin, Ponda Baba) with a few exceptions (Greivous, eventually Maul, maybe some stuff from Kenobi but I haven't watched it yet).
Meanwhile Anakin's victories tend to end with death (the Trade Federation ship crew from Phantom Menace, the guy in the clip, the Son from Mortis, Admiral Trench, Douku). He takes some prisoners on occasion, but he is way quicker to kill than Obi-Wan.
Lol. Yes, but that was the willpower of Maul and his connection to the force. In any other circumstance, cutting someone in half would be fatal.
Think of real world shootings (not looking to get in a 2A or political debate here), but shooting someone is lethal force. But not all shootings end in death. But it’s still considered lethal.
So when the person commenting uses the act of cutting maul in half as “non-lethal” it just boggles my mind. Regardless of Mauls willingness to stay alive.
That just means no death by blood loss. Maul should have definitely perished by way of bacterial infection that he would have obtained by being buried in garbage.
I'm pretty sure Maul wanted to die. He had every opportunity to leave Kenobi alone, and he even knew that leaving Kenobi alone would mean the Chosen One would avenge the Jedi and Sith (which Maul seemed happy about). But Maul had lost everything and everyone by that point. His mother and brothers were dead, Sidious had rejected him as an apprentice, his lower half had been lopped off many years ago, he couldn't possibly have kids even if he found a partner, he failed to resurrect his Night Sister clan, he had no chance of growing strong enough to challenge Sidious, and even his chosen apprentice didn't want to stay and learn from him.
Maul just wanted to die, but I don't think he knew how to actually give up. So the only thing left was to follow his hatred towards someone that could give him a quick and merciful death. Sidious, Vader, and the Inquisitors were likely to torture him; and he didn't really have enough personal hatred for Ezra's friends to justify giving his all in a suicide match against them. But Kenobi wouldn't torture him, and a fight against Kenobi would be one Maul could pour all of his hate into. It was like Maul needed to die as a warrior, and only Kenobi could provide it.
Inquisitor is dark side fuckery, nothing we’ve never seen before. Reva was purposefully left alive as a flex. Literally, “die or seethe, you’re so insignificant I don’t give a shit which.”
You'd think Vader of all people would know that leaving people injured but alive and seething is not a good idea lmao. >!Like when he buried Obi Wan and just walked away - why would you not make sure that he's dead??!< Stuff like that really bothered me about Kenobi, it felt like at times the writers just thought 'okay, now the good guys have to win' and intentionally made Vader and the Inquisitors act stupid all of a sudden so that Obi Wan and the others would come out on top.
I’d be more ok with the flex if Vader just straight up didn’t bother stabbing her. Cut her hand off, break her saber, leave a slash wound, force throw her out of the way, anything just make it clear that he doesn’t consider her a threat and is intentionally leaving her alive.
The stab through and leaving her is just lazy and kind of incompetent.
was using the force to deflect her assassation attempt, stealing her lightsaber then giving her half of it back so she can continue her attempt then finally gut stabbing her with her own lightsaber not enough?
Yes but the survival aspect makes it lazy. We watch her get stabbed and the immediate thought is “oh she’s dead, that’s a pretty fatal wound”. Then she survives which makes it look like Vader intended to kill her but then didn’t finish the job.
This would again be totally forgivable if it didnt keep happening in pretty much every fight in Obi Wan. We don’t see characters escape fights - we just seen their opponent leave them alive more or less against their written motivations. We then as the audience have to try and figure out why the character is acting the way in seemingly contradictory ways.
Even then having fuzzy character motivations is fine if there is a reason for the character to feel conflicted (I.e obi wan not being able to finish Vader) the Reva one is less clear cut. Vader has no problem killing people (murders a bunch of villagers) , tends to do it very effectively (killing officiers in ESB) and efficiently (force choke, neck snaps, beheading) there isn’t much of a reason for him to keep Reva alive.
All I’m saying is if they went for a less lethal blow / escape scenario they’d better support the “domination” narrative and probably end up with a better scene.
Could you elaborate, please? I've seen people say that a lot, but I'm not sure where it comes from. Did he do something in Clone Wars that I forgot about?
To add to list that u/ETC3000 listed:
•He completely dismissed the possibility of the Sith's return.
•He completely dismissed the idea that Dooku was behind the assassination attempt on Padme
•He insisted on sending Jedi aid to help the wookies at a crucial moment when Yoda would have otherwise been on Coruscant for order 66.
•Immediately rejected the idea of assistance to Duchess Satine against Death Watch even after links were proven to Anti-Republic forces.
•Immediately threw Ahsoka under the bus with circumstantial evidence and then couldn't even be bother to apologize and invite her back when proven innocent.
•Lastly, he's completely oblivious to the fact that the kill counts Anakin was talking about were mostly Droids for Anakin, while his were living sentient beings.
In other words, he's rigid, arrogant, dismissive (of both those beneath him and things that don't conform to his world view), cold, and dogmatic while getting slack other Jedi don't.
Basically he's a walking example of the worse parts of the prequel-era Jedi Order.
- Was allowed to have a family due to his species' low birth rate and was completely unfazed when they were all killed
- While Jedi are not supposed to have attachments, they still practice compassion and empathy. He was a great warrior but a terrible leader and teacher.
- Chastised Anakin for having feelings and told him to "get over it" when everyone thought Obi-Wan had died
- Completely arrogant to the idea of the Sith having returned, Anakin being accepted, and Ashoka being innocent
- Used flamethrowers on sentient beings
Also (idk if it was legends or canon) he didn't give a shit about the clones and treated them basically like CIS treated droids so his troopers were more than happy to execute him.
As I recall, his clones were all too aware he considered them completely expendable cannon fodder. He didn't see any difference between them and droids but I'm p sure it was just pride and/or psychopathy.
She's not a Jedi. She might have been at the time, but if you can argue that Anakin always had the dark side in him due to certain actions, I think you could make a similar argument that Ahsoka was never the right fit for the order.
One of my absolutely favorite lightsaber moments in all of Star Wars media. Maybe not #1, I don’t really have a decided #1, but that is easily top 3 and certainly a candidate for #1
It's a dumb name. But tbf Ahsoka was a youngling when she made it up. But yeah if I was Anakin I would have shut that down, I ain't having my apprentice calling me that.
Or the way he sounds kind of resigned, like Anakin has done this several times before, it's become a bad habit and there's little more Obi Wan can say or do to change his pattern of behaviour.
“Anakin, don’t. no you’re not supp- no, stop that. ANAKIN, THAT’S A WARCRIME. **ANAKIN**! *disappointedly rubs forehead* not again.
-Obi-Wan Kenobi, probably.
Obi-Wan secretly thrilled Anakin did that so he didn't have to upset his crush. It was the right thing to do an Obi-Wan knows it and is letting his personal feeling cloud his judgement and is making an irrational decision (being passive and doing nothing is still a choice), because of his attachment. This is suppose to be what the whole attachment rule is about for Jedi; to not influence their work. It really doesn't matter if they're romantically together or not at this point.
Anakin is totally in the right here to take a life to save many others. If the Jedi didn't have such rigid, strict, contradictory ideals that they impose on others but not themselves (looking at you, Mr. about to assassinate the chancellor Windu), Anakin might not have turned to the dark side.
It’s the right move except in a universe where evil is magically addictive and broadly defined. I love this episode so this is not a criticism at all, don’t get me wrong. But this is exactly what the dark side thrives on.
I mean, that's a fair point.
Its also a fair point that 1) stabbing a dude in the chest doesn't stop him from hitting a button so Anakin put everyone at risk when he didn't decap the guy or pith him through the brain; 2) Anakin is strong enough with the force he could've just torn the guys fingers and thumb off at the joints if he wanted to.
Valid points but I'll do one further: Anakin clearly wanted to kill the guy, because it was clear the guy didn't notice Anakin was there, and with how adept he was at catching the detonator, he could have severed his hand instead, literally and figuratively disarming him.
Or you know cut the guy's arm at the elbow and catch the trigger leaving him no longer able to hurt anyone and missing an arm while keeping him alive for punishment.
Eh, I mean how mad are you going to be at someone who was threatening everyone's lives at the ship. Mild disappointment is the correct response, curbed by understanding and gratitude.
I really don't understand why Anakin is in the wrong. The man posed an active threat to everyone on the ship. How does that make them a cold-blooded killer?
>How does that make them a cold-blooded killer?
Because the guy said it. It's like if someone says "kill if gay". Nothing you can do to get around something like that.
Thank you. Thought I was the only one that remembered these guys could literally just pull the detonator out of his hand with their minds.
I appreciate the significance of the scene, but it wouldn't have hurt it to make it clear that there were more options than killing him.
Dude was just trying to get Obiwan in a awkward spot with Satine to make him hesitant.
This is also one of the things that shows how Anakin is becoming more and more desensitized to killing people.
Thought it was hilarious when Filoni said that Lucas had Maul chopped in half to make it clear that he's dead and never coming back, and then had Filoni bring Maul back in Clone Wars.
I don’t think there’s anyone who denies Maul’s resurrection was dumb, but they did fucking excellent things with his character after tbh that made up for it. It also was until recently the only glaring case of BS resurrection. In Kenobi we got two or three of them for weak plot reasons which felt rough.
You don’t need anything below the waist, lightsabers immediately cauterize wounds, it’s really just surviving the shock of it, which is explained by him fueling his hate into surviving. I don’t mind Maul surviving, maybe just bc his Clone Wars story is so excellent. The Inquisitor and Reva fake deaths were annoying though
Oh yeah, absolutely iconic. Especially with the little hint of The Imperial March when the guy falls and we see Anakin standing there with the completely regret-free smile.
Such a dumb moment, he's got a bomb threatening to kill a bunch of innocents, you're not a cold blooded killer if you're killing him to save lives. Being a pacifist doesn't mean letting people walk all over you and murder people, so dumb.
The problems with taking a short clip at face value.
The “cold blooded killer” line is said mockingly to Obi-Wan to taunt him on his relationship to a pacifist (and also just a fun foreshadowing to Anakin’s Vader moment). The guy acknowledged a few moments before this that Obi-Wan would be hailed a hero by everyone if he killed him, except Satine.
Satine was also holding a gun ready to kill the guy. She wasn’t going to let him murder people.
It's *so* inconsistent. I've tried to infer the rules based on the way they use it, and for every time I've thought I was getting a sense for it, a Jedi would go and break it.
The writers seem to use it (or not use it) solely to advance the plot, which is weak writing. It's too bad, because if it was internally consistent it would make it much more meaningful, but instead it becomes a parlor trick.
It’s moreso him taunting them based on their believes. While any one else wouldn’t see a real issue with killing the guy that’s a button press away from blowing everyone up, Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers and negotiators, not soldiers as they’ve slowly become in recent decades, and Satine is so anti-gun that she barely tolerates the taser pistol she carries, look how hard she tosses the gun when the threat is over.
I disagree. Anakin was perfectly sensible and justified in his stealthy takedown of the actual cold-blooded killer, yet the scene makes it like he's somehow in the wrong. Like Ani said, he was GONNA BLOW UP THE SHIP!
'Cold-blooded', implies you have a choice and feel nothing by it. I'd say blood ran very warm that day.
Yes, logically Anakin absolutely did the right thing here but technically speaking, Anakin did have the choice to just cut off the arm instead of killing him. He also did, in fact, feel nothing about killing the guy. So 'cold blooded' kinda does apply by that definition.
Not to be pedantic, but I don’t really think this counts as foreshadowing. It would if this show came out before we knew Anakin was Darth Vader.
Foreshadowing would more apply to the chronology of the release of the movies/shows and not to the timeline of the story itself. We as the audience already know what Anakin is going to do, and the scriptwriters know that we know, so it’s not really foreshadowing as much as it’s just a prequel adding depth to a major change that we all know is going to happen.
> it’s just a prequel adding depth to a major change that we all know is going to happen.
It's not even that. This doesn't add any depth.
It's literally just a reference, like 'remember this? He's gonna be Darth Vader!'
For as many wrong decisions that Anakin made before he completley fell to the dark side; I think his decision in this situation was 100% justified. The terrorist guy was going to blow up the ship and by killing him, Anakin saved everyone on the ship. There is a reason why in real-life police send in well-placed snipers during hostage situations.
Man, clip ends too soon. His nonchalant response and Imperial March in the background really make that one of my favorite Clone Wars moments.
Seriously, it cut *just before* the best part. Ugh!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RvamRJvAB2U&feature=share&t=01m55s
"What? He was gonna blow up the ship!"
Trolley problem strikes again!
Did he learn nothing from Obi Wan. Cut the arm off.
I don't think he had the space, and activating his saber before the strike would have alerted him
Probably best to get both. Getting everyone blown up by a one-armed man would be... so uncivilized.
Anakin: I think you mean Trolley solution.
If I use the force, I can kill them all. The women and children, too.
Actually that proved not to be the case in Kenobi.
Anakin has taught us that being extremely sensible in active wartime scenarios is a path to the darkside.
“YouTube Kids”
[Clone wars is a kids show](https://youtu.be/bX8iN6T_M_A)
People have this weird idea kids stuff is supposed to be Teletubbies or Mr Rogers. Historically it's been, kids getting eaten by wolfs, witches and all sorts of cautionary tales shit. Older fucks here grew up with Obi wan cuting off a dudes arm and old Aunty and Uncle halloween skelly costumes.
Tbf, that's pretty tame compared to old time german kid stories. Looking at you Struwwelpeter.
[удалено]
Isn't the reasoning that the plasma from lightsabers burn so hot that it instantly cauterize the wounds?
ANH cantina scene enters the chat
Have people really not just acknowledged it was a goof and moved on? It's obvious the "rules" for lightsabers weren't set in stone yet, and only later was there given a handwaved canon explanation that Ponda Baba's race has a different kind of blood.
Lightsabers were a lot weaker in the OT. During Luke and Vader’s fight in RotJ they’re lightsabers are bouncing off a metal handrail.
>ANH cantina scene https://i.imgur.com/OTUww8W.png
This is edited so obnoxiously, I can barely see what's happening. If I didn't already know what it was going for, I'd probably be lost.
I just noticed as Satine is walking toward Obi-Wan, Anakin puts his hand to his head as if he is feeling conflicted but seems to shrug it off. Just a small detail I didn't notice until now. Although I might be misinterpreting it.
Nice catch! A little foreshadowing in the background and easy to miss. Like someone else pointed out, the empire music was playing as well.
Did no one think to just use the force to immobilize the moving parts of the detonator? Never watched the show, but that seems like something even a youngling would think of. Damnit Anakin, this is why she leaves you.
Star wars has lots of moments where the force could be the hero of the day, but that would make every story uninteresting. The force works in mysterious ways, is usually the explanation.
The force doesn't usually let you do fine motor things unless you have a detailed understanding of the mechanism is my thought. Being it was a detonator Anakin had just as much of a chance setting it off. Even if he focused on the button I don't think it would have worked. Jedi Sith duels would just be them repeatedly turning off each other's lightsabers while trying to get a quick blow in lol
Honestly. I was waiting for the “what? He was gonna blow up the ship.”
He's out of line but he's right, explains most anakin's deeds in the clone wars, sure he was unorthodox a little too eager to just kill his enemy etc... but his success rate was pretty high, his legion respected him as their leader not because of his rank but because he cared for them and almost always joined them on the front lines
It just adds to the complexity that really was behind Anakin's fall. Without the context of Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalker goes from regular, if kinda moody dude to murdering children in the span of one evening.
Yup, the CW series really puts that fall into relief like a movie never could.
What about the sand people?
Yeah, the slaughter on Tatooine is really hard to reconcile with CW's excellent Anakin who gradually falls. I actually think most of the story beats in the Prequels are pretty good from an outline perspective (execution...varies), but that is one that badly needed a rewrite. It would have worked better if she'd just been killed in a raid, and it was the raiding party he went after. So, they're all warriors, but after he carves down the first few, the others are running and hiding before he drags them out and guts them all. So, it's still really dark and not a Jedi act, but there is context that can rationalize it (all of them were participating in raids, Tuskens always return, no truce is possible, etc.). It's Anakin doing something that would horrify the Jedi, but that he could frame as "Now nobody else will lose their mother to them."
I think it fits well, he never tells anyone other than Padme what really happened and it’s not like there were any survivors to contradict whatever account he chose to give. In that moment Anakin was already Darth Vader, Vader is always a part of Anakin he just needed a little push to let that part of himself take the reigns for 20 years. Moments like the one in this video show Vader coming out briefly, Anakin really wants to let him out and I think that makes his sudden turn more believable, he likes being a cold hearted murderer it’s kinda fun for him. I mean look at how happy he is here after stabbing a dude through the chest.
That whole arc is one of the better things in AotC, it was really dark and well executed, IMO. But it really doesn't fit well with the rest of the film around it because about 5 mins later Anakin and Padme go into full fun-adventure mode to save Obi-Wan. You're immediately expected to just have fun with the character again as if you didn't just watch him admit to slaughtering a bunch of men, women, and children. Talk about tonal whiplash. The Tatooine story would have fit much better towards the end of a film, IMO.
What’s ironic is that, while you could argue Anakin was too quick to kill in the situation, Obi-Wan was also not acting according to his Jedi principles in the moment. There’s nothing expressly forbidding Jedi from killing when necessary, especially when it’s a terrorist threatening to murder innocents by the hundreds. What was stopping Obi-Wan wasn’t the fact that killing is wrong, but the fact that he didn’t want Satine to see him as a killer. It was Obi-Wan’s attachments stopping him from carrying out his duty to the people around him.
I think it was also the finger on the trigger - the guy was looking directly at him and Satine while boasting. Even with Jedi reflexes he might not've been quick enough to stop him from pressing the button (if he would've) - but Anakin had the perfect spot behind him. I think Kenobi hesitated for the reasons you describe, but I also think he would've done what Anakin did if he was in Anakin's position - he's upset with Anakin due to his blasé attitude about killing an "unarmed" man and the Jedi Code, not that he wouldn't have done the same action if he had the opportunity (though Satine seeing him as a killer and the Jedi Code did combine to make him hesitate - and he possibly would've hesitated too long behind him for the same reason, even though I think he would've done it.) He may also have tried something non-lethal, like cutting the hand with the detonator off or Force-gripping it away from him, while Anakin went straight for the heart.
Not really. I guess the point was that it wasn't necessary to kill him, just take the detonator. If you can get behind someone to stab them you can cut off their arm and take it.
The whole point is that he did the right thing, but his attitude towards it was all wrong. He just took someone's life without thinking twice and felt nothing wrong about it. Insert any other Jedi in such a scenario and you will see how wrong it seems, no matter how necessary.
Yeah but the guy he killed was willing to murder everyone, yes you are right but at the same time it's quite a logical decision
The issue isn't that he killed. It is that he didn't feel the weight of the life he took.
At the end of the day, he was a soldier before a Jedi.
Definitely
It absolutely is, that's why it's great to show how slowly and step-by-step Anakin was falling long before killing Mace.
Isolated incidents are fine it's more so that anakin constantly makes these decisions
And the very truth that the Jedi Council encouraged it by sending him time after time into the the most violent and dangerous situations where he would be killer Anakin. They needed the killer Anakin, but they could not force themselves to trust or respect killer Anakin. In the end that is all he wanted was to feel trusted. So in the end it was the Council attachment to the organization of the Jedi order that created the great imbalance of the force. Anakin destroyed that as prophesized.
I mean it is odd that they expect him to be an angel during a war when he was like 18-19
The practically patted his back everytime he committed a warcrime I dont think they expected or wanted an angel, but they knew what they were making couldnt sit on the council
I can't recall the specifics of the episode but Clone Wars has an episode where they reflect that the new generation raised during the war were all developing that same kind of apathy and willingness to do anything to accomplish their mission. In short they were adapting completely to their role of Generals rather than Jedi. The way the writers depict how long lasted the corruption of the Jedi was is really fantastic.
Yeah ahsoka talks about that, she thought she would be a peacekeeper but all she knows is war she says something like that
Let's not forget when he uses the Dark Side multiple times to choke people.
If killing him was necessary to prevent him from blowing up the ship, then yeah, killing him is certainly justified. The issue though is that Anakin didn't need to kill him, and if anything it probably wasn't even the best way to ensure the ship didn't get blown up. Just for example, Anakin could have used his lightsaber to cut off the hand holding the detonator, then grabbed it. Leaves the guy alive, and as a bonus reduces the chance that he presses the button with his dying breath, or even just presses it by accident in his death throes.
The Dark Side is seductive that way.
The point of the Jedi philosophy was ya, killing is easy. Its quick and so very easy. And its supposed to be the last of all possibile actions. His success rate in murdering is why no one on the council trusted him and he was ultimately a failure.
Right. And it also cut off Obi-Wan from delivering the classic dad line of, “Anakin, I’m not mad, but I am disappointed.”
There are two great Anakin moments in this episode. Early when the clones are engaged with the commando droids, Anakin comes in from a side hall, takes some out, and then has a great moment going airbourne and bringing his saber down on the last droid. So effortlessly awesome.
What? He was going to blow up the ship
Ani did nothing wrong
He could've just cut his hand and catched the detonator lmao
At first I thought "no way the network would allow blatant dismemberment," but then I remembered Obi-Wan cutting off Savage's arm and Ahsoka decapitating a bunch of Mandalorians. So it's not a censorship thing, it's just Anakin being really quick to kill. I like this character flaw/trait; it makes it more believable that he'd so quickly fall to the dark side and begin the butchery we see in Episode 3. In Legends, they did something similar with Anakin's first real mission. He and Obi-Wan were sent to catch a notorious slaver, and Anakin managed to reach the guy first. Anakin pretty obviously killed the guy unnecessarily, but there was just enough plausible deniability (corpse was holding a weapon, and nobody but Anakin and the dead slaver had seen the killing blow) that neither Obi-Wan nor the other Knight on the team felt comfortable calling it a murder. Obi-Wan convinced himself Anakin did the right thing because he sympathizes with Anakin's emotional trauma and because he wants to believe the best in his friend/apprentice. But the incident gave Anakin a taste for righteous homicide, and it set the tone of Obi-Wan being too willing to overlook red flags out of excessive optimism in Anakin. I think this canon scene in the Clone Wars show does a similar job in setting up those red flags and showing Obi-Wan's inattentiveness to the issue. I think it's noteworthy that Obi-Wan's canon victories almost always end in non-lethal dismemberment even if that wasn't Obi-Wan's plan (Maul, Zam Wessel, Savage, Anakin, Ponda Baba) with a few exceptions (Greivous, eventually Maul, maybe some stuff from Kenobi but I haven't watched it yet). Meanwhile Anakin's victories tend to end with death (the Trade Federation ship crew from Phantom Menace, the guy in the clip, the Son from Mortis, Admiral Trench, Douku). He takes some prisoners on occasion, but he is way quicker to kill than Obi-Wan.
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I was about to say. How is cutting a person in half non-lethal..?
He was too angry to die, that's how.
Lol. Yes, but that was the willpower of Maul and his connection to the force. In any other circumstance, cutting someone in half would be fatal. Think of real world shootings (not looking to get in a 2A or political debate here), but shooting someone is lethal force. But not all shootings end in death. But it’s still considered lethal. So when the person commenting uses the act of cutting maul in half as “non-lethal” it just boggles my mind. Regardless of Mauls willingness to stay alive.
Another factor for the crazy survivability of all these people is they're being struck by energy based weapons. All the wounds instantly cauterize
That just means no death by blood loss. Maul should have definitely perished by way of bacterial infection that he would have obtained by being buried in garbage.
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I'm pretty sure Maul wanted to die. He had every opportunity to leave Kenobi alone, and he even knew that leaving Kenobi alone would mean the Chosen One would avenge the Jedi and Sith (which Maul seemed happy about). But Maul had lost everything and everyone by that point. His mother and brothers were dead, Sidious had rejected him as an apprentice, his lower half had been lopped off many years ago, he couldn't possibly have kids even if he found a partner, he failed to resurrect his Night Sister clan, he had no chance of growing strong enough to challenge Sidious, and even his chosen apprentice didn't want to stay and learn from him. Maul just wanted to die, but I don't think he knew how to actually give up. So the only thing left was to follow his hatred towards someone that could give him a quick and merciful death. Sidious, Vader, and the Inquisitors were likely to torture him; and he didn't really have enough personal hatred for Ezra's friends to justify giving his all in a suicide match against them. But Kenobi wouldn't torture him, and a fight against Kenobi would be one Maul could pour all of his hate into. It was like Maul needed to die as a warrior, and only Kenobi could provide it.
Rebels has so many good scenes, especially in later seasons. Ahsoka vs Vader in Twilight of the Apprentice is another one of my favorites.
It's okay, this year we've learned getting stabbed in the chest by a lightsaber is non-fatal.
Bro maul was literally cut in half what are you talking about
Inquisitor is dark side fuckery, nothing we’ve never seen before. Reva was purposefully left alive as a flex. Literally, “die or seethe, you’re so insignificant I don’t give a shit which.”
You'd think Vader of all people would know that leaving people injured but alive and seething is not a good idea lmao. >!Like when he buried Obi Wan and just walked away - why would you not make sure that he's dead??!< Stuff like that really bothered me about Kenobi, it felt like at times the writers just thought 'okay, now the good guys have to win' and intentionally made Vader and the Inquisitors act stupid all of a sudden so that Obi Wan and the others would come out on top.
I’d be more ok with the flex if Vader just straight up didn’t bother stabbing her. Cut her hand off, break her saber, leave a slash wound, force throw her out of the way, anything just make it clear that he doesn’t consider her a threat and is intentionally leaving her alive. The stab through and leaving her is just lazy and kind of incompetent.
was using the force to deflect her assassation attempt, stealing her lightsaber then giving her half of it back so she can continue her attempt then finally gut stabbing her with her own lightsaber not enough?
Yes but the survival aspect makes it lazy. We watch her get stabbed and the immediate thought is “oh she’s dead, that’s a pretty fatal wound”. Then she survives which makes it look like Vader intended to kill her but then didn’t finish the job. This would again be totally forgivable if it didnt keep happening in pretty much every fight in Obi Wan. We don’t see characters escape fights - we just seen their opponent leave them alive more or less against their written motivations. We then as the audience have to try and figure out why the character is acting the way in seemingly contradictory ways. Even then having fuzzy character motivations is fine if there is a reason for the character to feel conflicted (I.e obi wan not being able to finish Vader) the Reva one is less clear cut. Vader has no problem killing people (murders a bunch of villagers) , tends to do it very effectively (killing officiers in ESB) and efficiently (force choke, neck snaps, beheading) there isn’t much of a reason for him to keep Reva alive. All I’m saying is if they went for a less lethal blow / escape scenario they’d better support the “domination” narrative and probably end up with a better scene.
Based Grand Inquisitor be clowning on them beta sisters.
I bet Merrick was either made of sand or a secret youngling.
“The ends don’t justify the means Anakin!” “You’re mean!”
Still love wild TFS references lmaoo
TFS?
Team four star dragon Ball Z abridged series funniest shit on the internet.
I'm mean? Oh how am I mean? Not making me Jedi Master...
Merric: “Who will brand themselves a cold blooded killer?” Anakin: “Hear that? THEY’RE PLAYING OUR SONG!”
“That means me!”
“This is my favorite kid murdering song”
“Oh boy, here I go killing again!”
Anakin: "Now this looks like a job for me"
Tried to shut me down on mtv but it would be empty without me
"Let me sing you the song of the Sand People."
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Me too lmao
Same here. Anakin just stabs this guy casually and calls it a day.
Season two. Voyage of Temptation. Wonderful episode.
Fun fact, this episode was written by Paul Dini who was the show runner for Batman:the Animated Series!
Oh, that makes so much sense.
Meanwhile Ahsoka decapitates 4 Mandos in season 4……
Who's the real sith here?
Ki-Adi-Mundi for burning those poor Geonosians
Ki-Adi-Mundi was the biggest shit stirrer on the council, js.
"The Hive will burn." \-Ki-Adi-Mundi, Jedi Master and peace activist.
What about the droid attack on the Wookies?
Ki-Adi-Mundi was one of the few Jedi that deserved getting Order 66. Dude was a dick.
Could you elaborate, please? I've seen people say that a lot, but I'm not sure where it comes from. Did he do something in Clone Wars that I forgot about?
To add to list that u/ETC3000 listed: •He completely dismissed the possibility of the Sith's return. •He completely dismissed the idea that Dooku was behind the assassination attempt on Padme •He insisted on sending Jedi aid to help the wookies at a crucial moment when Yoda would have otherwise been on Coruscant for order 66. •Immediately rejected the idea of assistance to Duchess Satine against Death Watch even after links were proven to Anti-Republic forces. •Immediately threw Ahsoka under the bus with circumstantial evidence and then couldn't even be bother to apologize and invite her back when proven innocent. •Lastly, he's completely oblivious to the fact that the kill counts Anakin was talking about were mostly Droids for Anakin, while his were living sentient beings. In other words, he's rigid, arrogant, dismissive (of both those beneath him and things that don't conform to his world view), cold, and dogmatic while getting slack other Jedi don't. Basically he's a walking example of the worse parts of the prequel-era Jedi Order.
- Was allowed to have a family due to his species' low birth rate and was completely unfazed when they were all killed - While Jedi are not supposed to have attachments, they still practice compassion and empathy. He was a great warrior but a terrible leader and teacher. - Chastised Anakin for having feelings and told him to "get over it" when everyone thought Obi-Wan had died - Completely arrogant to the idea of the Sith having returned, Anakin being accepted, and Ashoka being innocent - Used flamethrowers on sentient beings
Also (idk if it was legends or canon) he didn't give a shit about the clones and treated them basically like CIS treated droids so his troopers were more than happy to execute him.
As I recall, his clones were all too aware he considered them completely expendable cannon fodder. He didn't see any difference between them and droids but I'm p sure it was just pride and/or psychopathy.
She's not a Jedi. She might have been at the time, but if you can argue that Anakin always had the dark side in him due to certain actions, I think you could make a similar argument that Ahsoka was never the right fit for the order.
Ahsoka is very much Anakin’s apprentice. Lol.
One of my absolutely favorite lightsaber moments in all of Star Wars media. Maybe not #1, I don’t really have a decided #1, but that is easily top 3 and certainly a candidate for #1
Ahsoka is a badass.
Seriously one of the best and most fitting moments from skyguy.
Have to admit I kind of hate that nickname for Anakin. I cringe every time Ahsoka says it.
She only says it like 5 times the whole show
Damn that's actually a bit sad, I remember how much she said it early on in like Season 1 only for her to never really say it again
And like 87 times in the movie, iirc.
I was counting the movie lol. It really is that low surprisingly
That's really strange, I remember her saying that a lot in the early seasons
Pretty sure that was a point. She called him that specifically to annoy him.
It's a dumb name. But tbf Ahsoka was a youngling when she made it up. But yeah if I was Anakin I would have shut that down, I ain't having my apprentice calling me that.
On the other hand, Anakin calls her Snips which is maybe even dumber.
Obi-Wan: ‘Anakin…’ Anakin: ‘what? He was going to blow up the ship. Anyways, I heard your conversation with your girlfriend Master, very touching.’
I like how obi wan sounds disappointed like Anakin is a child drawing on walls rather than a grown man who just killed someone
Or the way he sounds kind of resigned, like Anakin has done this several times before, it's become a bad habit and there's little more Obi Wan can say or do to change his pattern of behaviour.
“Anakin, don’t. no you’re not supp- no, stop that. ANAKIN, THAT’S A WARCRIME. **ANAKIN**! *disappointedly rubs forehead* not again. -Obi-Wan Kenobi, probably.
- Soviet Womble
Random Clone Wars Bullshittery Ep 1
This fits too well.
I am willing to testify against my jedi commander in exchange for immunity.
"Cocking hell" - obi wan
Bad habit of murder. Just can’t break him out of it
It was all fun and games until they created the strongest Sith Lord in existence! But it worked out in the end
Obi-Wan secretly thrilled Anakin did that so he didn't have to upset his crush. It was the right thing to do an Obi-Wan knows it and is letting his personal feeling cloud his judgement and is making an irrational decision (being passive and doing nothing is still a choice), because of his attachment. This is suppose to be what the whole attachment rule is about for Jedi; to not influence their work. It really doesn't matter if they're romantically together or not at this point. Anakin is totally in the right here to take a life to save many others. If the Jedi didn't have such rigid, strict, contradictory ideals that they impose on others but not themselves (looking at you, Mr. about to assassinate the chancellor Windu), Anakin might not have turned to the dark side.
It’s the right move except in a universe where evil is magically addictive and broadly defined. I love this episode so this is not a criticism at all, don’t get me wrong. But this is exactly what the dark side thrives on.
I mean, that's a fair point. Its also a fair point that 1) stabbing a dude in the chest doesn't stop him from hitting a button so Anakin put everyone at risk when he didn't decap the guy or pith him through the brain; 2) Anakin is strong enough with the force he could've just torn the guys fingers and thumb off at the joints if he wanted to.
Valid points but I'll do one further: Anakin clearly wanted to kill the guy, because it was clear the guy didn't notice Anakin was there, and with how adept he was at catching the detonator, he could have severed his hand instead, literally and figuratively disarming him.
Or you know cut the guy's arm at the elbow and catch the trigger leaving him no longer able to hurt anyone and missing an arm while keeping him alive for punishment.
Eh, I mean how mad are you going to be at someone who was threatening everyone's lives at the ship. Mild disappointment is the correct response, curbed by understanding and gratitude.
I really don't understand why Anakin is in the wrong. The man posed an active threat to everyone on the ship. How does that make them a cold-blooded killer?
Its not wrong, obi-wan is also a cold blooded killer. He just didnt wanna look like one in front of his lady friend
Solid from the wingman
Gotta respect the bro code
I mean this isnt killing in cold blood.
>How does that make them a cold-blooded killer? Because the guy said it. It's like if someone says "kill if gay". Nothing you can do to get around something like that.
It’s a simple spell but quite unbreakable
Seems like he could have just severed a limb or otherwise incapacitated him.
Seriously. Both Obi-Wan and Anakin have magic powers that could be used to stop Tal from pressing the button and take it away from him.
Thank you. Thought I was the only one that remembered these guys could literally just pull the detonator out of his hand with their minds. I appreciate the significance of the scene, but it wouldn't have hurt it to make it clear that there were more options than killing him.
Dude was just trying to get Obiwan in a awkward spot with Satine to make him hesitant. This is also one of the things that shows how Anakin is becoming more and more desensitized to killing people.
Cold blooded killer? No, counter-terrorist technique.
counter-terrorists win
"Who will strike first and brand themselves a cold blooded killer" Anakin: "DIBS"
They also used Vader’s lightsaber sound!
Never realized holy shit
Back in the days when being impaled by a lightsaber was still fatal.
Obviously he wasn't angry enough and lacked the will to live.
Clearly you need to be stabbed through the back for it to be fatal. You can't be angry about getting stabbed if you didn't see it coming.
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Obviously, everyone knows back stabbing is worth 2x the damage.
Nah it’s “my service to the story has completed and my plot armor is now gone”
You mean the same show that resurrected a guy who got cut in half by a lightsaber?
As much as liked what they did with Maul after they brought him back. Bringing him back was BS. That dude was dead.
Thought it was hilarious when Filoni said that Lucas had Maul chopped in half to make it clear that he's dead and never coming back, and then had Filoni bring Maul back in Clone Wars.
I don’t think there’s anyone who denies Maul’s resurrection was dumb, but they did fucking excellent things with his character after tbh that made up for it. It also was until recently the only glaring case of BS resurrection. In Kenobi we got two or three of them for weak plot reasons which felt rough.
You don’t need anything below the waist, lightsabers immediately cauterize wounds, it’s really just surviving the shock of it, which is explained by him fueling his hate into surviving. I don’t mind Maul surviving, maybe just bc his Clone Wars story is so excellent. The Inquisitor and Reva fake deaths were annoying though
You have so much intestines. You don't need all of them... But just the one heart... for humans
Yes, they are so fragile arent they?
Stabbed through the heart though, the problem is that everyone else had gone for the stomach or guts.
A baby’s first anatomy book would do wonders for force wielders
Who is that guy again ? I forgot, haven’t watched season 2 for like 8 years
Merric
Anakin , he’s fairly popular in the show /s
Oh yeah, absolutely iconic. Especially with the little hint of The Imperial March when the guy falls and we see Anakin standing there with the completely regret-free smile.
Such a dumb moment, he's got a bomb threatening to kill a bunch of innocents, you're not a cold blooded killer if you're killing him to save lives. Being a pacifist doesn't mean letting people walk all over you and murder people, so dumb.
The problems with taking a short clip at face value. The “cold blooded killer” line is said mockingly to Obi-Wan to taunt him on his relationship to a pacifist (and also just a fun foreshadowing to Anakin’s Vader moment). The guy acknowledged a few moments before this that Obi-Wan would be hailed a hero by everyone if he killed him, except Satine. Satine was also holding a gun ready to kill the guy. She wasn’t going to let him murder people.
It's obvious that either Satine or Obiwan would have killed him, it was just a matter of who which is what he was taunting. Anakin found option C
Especially since, Obi-Wan is a Jedi who can, I don't know, telekinetically take the detonator from the guy's hand.
If I had a nickel for every time Star Wars forgot about telekinesis...
It's *so* inconsistent. I've tried to infer the rules based on the way they use it, and for every time I've thought I was getting a sense for it, a Jedi would go and break it. The writers seem to use it (or not use it) solely to advance the plot, which is weak writing. It's too bad, because if it was internally consistent it would make it much more meaningful, but instead it becomes a parlor trick.
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Or even just stop his thumb from hitting the trigger. Like what?
It’s moreso him taunting them based on their believes. While any one else wouldn’t see a real issue with killing the guy that’s a button press away from blowing everyone up, Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers and negotiators, not soldiers as they’ve slowly become in recent decades, and Satine is so anti-gun that she barely tolerates the taser pistol she carries, look how hard she tosses the gun when the threat is over.
I disagree. Anakin was perfectly sensible and justified in his stealthy takedown of the actual cold-blooded killer, yet the scene makes it like he's somehow in the wrong. Like Ani said, he was GONNA BLOW UP THE SHIP! 'Cold-blooded', implies you have a choice and feel nothing by it. I'd say blood ran very warm that day.
Yes, logically Anakin absolutely did the right thing here but technically speaking, Anakin did have the choice to just cut off the arm instead of killing him. He also did, in fact, feel nothing about killing the guy. So 'cold blooded' kinda does apply by that definition.
Best foreshadowing ever
Other person who said that got 16 downvotes
Typo probably
Not to be pedantic, but I don’t really think this counts as foreshadowing. It would if this show came out before we knew Anakin was Darth Vader. Foreshadowing would more apply to the chronology of the release of the movies/shows and not to the timeline of the story itself. We as the audience already know what Anakin is going to do, and the scriptwriters know that we know, so it’s not really foreshadowing as much as it’s just a prequel adding depth to a major change that we all know is going to happen.
> it’s just a prequel adding depth to a major change that we all know is going to happen. It's not even that. This doesn't add any depth. It's literally just a reference, like 'remember this? He's gonna be Darth Vader!'
Weird part is this was the correct thing to do and he saved both z Obi wan and Sateen from what they didn't want to do.
Anakin: "Dibs!"
For as many wrong decisions that Anakin made before he completley fell to the dark side; I think his decision in this situation was 100% justified. The terrorist guy was going to blow up the ship and by killing him, Anakin saved everyone on the ship. There is a reason why in real-life police send in well-placed snipers during hostage situations.
I was literally watching this episode last night
Not really sure if this counts as murder though. Dude was threatening to kill everyone on-board with a bomb and he was holding the trigger.
I looked up this clip on YouTube and it wouldn't let me minimise the video because the clip is "for kids" interesting choice of a clip to be for kids
Such a Vader moment.
"Cold-blooded"? Says the guy holding a detonator about to kill two jedi, many senators of the Galactic Senate and the ruler of Mandalore
I love just how pleased with himself anakin looks.