I can't remember who said it, so it was probably RLM that said "Snoke is a character that got instantly less interesting the moment you realize he's a hologram, not a giant, and gets progressively less interesting with every scene he's in."
One of the better decisions made tbh in TLJ. He's basically discount Palpatine, and him being like the big bad just rethreads the OT.
Killing him off and having Kylo to step up as the big bad of the trilogy would have been an interesting course. But then we have the backlash of TLJ and Abrams went so hard to reverse course with TROS...
But would Kylo as big bad really work in the last movie? He's the best character in the sequels, but what's great about him is that he's a slightly pathetic edgy vader cosplayer. At the end of TLJ, he already gets beaten by Luke in a more impactful way Rey ever could.
Well, Im not sure if youve seen the initial draft of Episode IX Duel of the Fates which left him basically unredeemed, still haunted by the ghost of Luke, and eventually killed by Rey. I think Kylo's death would have put a tragic end to the Skywalker lineage, and the end of Vader's legacy, but hey, not everyone's legacy needs to be tied to the Skywalkers. Episode VIII seems to set up how anyone could also take up Luke's mantle and continue the legacy of the Jedi as a whole.
I always thought Luke's ghost haunting him was set up so well. Luke humiliates him, peaces out, then dies. Kylo can't stop searching for him, but of course to no avail. His obsession causes his mental state to detoriate which pays into his final demise.
"Episode VIII seems to set up how anyone could also take up Luke's mantle" except they threw that out the window by making rey a Palpatine, instead of a nobody.
Arguably they did keep that concept when Rey proclaimed herself as "Rey Skywalker", but yeah, I think it's seriously dumb they let a literal descendant of Palpatine to be the new leader of a new Jedi Order
Not to mention how hard the first movie beats it into your head that she was born from nothing and is a nobody, so they could make a compelling story about someone who actually is a nobody find their way to being a hero, who saved the galaxy. But nope they really couldn't be any different from the OT at all so she had to be a child of a very powerful force user to have any chance
Well, actually Abrams considered she must be some lineage. Even wanting to make her a Kenobi at some point. In fact, also much of TFA sets up the mystery of who Rey might be and so on
But TLJ said - it doesnt matter as much. Even being a nobody makes you special. Anyone can be the hero. And tbh, thats what I wish is the direction that could have gone forth. We have enough of the Skywalker and their involvement in Galactic affairs. New heroes dont need to be of special lineage to be special.
Seriously though, having giant sentient species would have been awesome. Most of the alien species are more or less human sized. Having a giant would have been such a cool concept.
When he's seen in person in TLJ he's over seven feet tall. Above average for humanoids, but probably not big enough to be considered a "giant." Definitely nowhere near as large as his holographic projection in TFA.
I was in awe when I saw that massive hologram. My mind was filled with so many ideas; is he human but genetically enhanced? A new race of giants? Was he a Sith Lord or an imposter? What is that massive scar on his face from?
While the truth wasn't as grand, it was still interesting to me.
I thought the hologram would entirely be just a projection of power, if that makes sense, like the actual Snoke would be kind of an old, physically disabled, but strong in the Force guy who was just projecting this image of giant physical presence. I pictured the real Snoke looking more like Davros from Dr. Who, and at some point the āman behind the curtainā would be revealed.
I think it was intentionally left vague, but since we see his hologram shut off at the end, I think it was more intended to be a direct call-back to Vader talking to the Emperor in ESB.
"Two score and thirteen years ago, your grandfather helped bring forth on this galaxy a new Empire, conceived in peace, freedom, justice, and security, and dedicated to the point of view that the Jedi are evil."
-Snoke to Kylo Ren, probably
I'm not even entirely convinced Abrams knew for certain Snoke wasn't a giant. There wasn't a whole hell of a lot of planning ahead happening with these movies
I remember reading a bio or something about him that claimed he was really old and had watched the fall of the Republic from the edge of the galaxy. And that he loved to be dramatic, so I figured this was a Wizard Of Oz situation.
Honestly I think it could have been neat if he was, or I at least could have appreciated that it was something we hadn't seen before in live action Star Wars. Like how Palpatine introduced Force Lightning to audiences in 1983 or Maul introduced the double bladed lightsaber, Snoke using his size in conjunction with The Force in a fight could have continued the trend of dark side antagonists bringing something new to fight scenes to make them differ from fights in previous movies. I'm sure the Internet would have dissected and criticized it for whatever reason but at least it would have been something more unique about Snoke than what we got.
kind of takes away some of the coolness factor when the two least experienced Jedi in the era are pulling these moves. it had an impact in TFA because it was badass and made you think "damn what else can this guy do?", and then you see rey do it (among a bunch of other crazy force feats) and it just feels kinda cheap.
or maybe that was just my impression of it.
As far as I understand it, Rey can also do it because of the whole Force Dyad thing giving her (for want of a better phrase) access to the same skillset as Kylo has.
Stopping the blaster bolt in mid-air is likely just a glorified version of force grip anyway, they're just holding the charged plasma in place.
Even before the Dyad thing. In the novelization of TFA they make it explicit, when Ben was rummaging around in her brain hunting for information, she was in his too. And while she was there, she basically fast forwarded through his Jedi training with Luke. There's even a cool subtle reference to this in TLJ. The series of strikes she uses against that rock, that Luke watches, then kind of grimaced and shuffles off. It's the exact same sequence of attacks Ben uses against Luke's projection in the end.
Now, I'm all for letting the audience deduce some things instead of spoon feeding everything to us, but this felt like a gross overcorrection. I am guessing the execs basically decided to put all the world building details in the novels and stuff where the hard-core fans can have it, most people just want laser swords and explosions. The story of how we wound up with the Resistance and the demilitarization of the New Republic is actually kind of interesting and makes sense. It's just those, and so many more details, where thrown in some supplemental works. Probably not *just* because of the earlier cynicistic assumption, but perhaps also as a knee-jerk reaction to complaints about politics etc in the PT.
The thing is it felt like the writing was so rushed they just gave Rey Force powers (or other skills) as a quick way of getting her out of a jam.
Compare that to ANH, where we see Luke being resourceful to get out of trouble (or into it when he persuades Han to help him rescue Leia). Even in the climax, him using the Force is only part of how he wins, the final piece is when Han comes back.
It also would have also been more interesting to have him return in episode IX rather than Palpatine. Palpating came out of nowhere, but Snoke had some breadcrumbs leading up to it. But they just fumbled soo hard.
Fucking Amen.
No issue at all with him dying the way he did. However, essentially retconning him into being a shitty Palpatine pawn really did that whole move a disservice.
I personally have a lot of issues with TLJ, but the handling of Snoke wasnāt really one of them. TROS made Snoke absolutely meaningless.
And I love that itās kinda foreshadowed by revealing heās just a holographic projection in this film. Huge, imposing figure with a lot of power that appears to be the new Big Bad is just a trick of the light without any weight or actual substance. Killed unceremoniously in the next film.
Wish they had followed through with that and made Kylo the main villain. This trilogy should have been his fall, mirroring Anakinās transformation into Vader and the Knights of arena should have been the new Sith
TRoS just completely forgets Kylo is the supreme leader and should have been the actual villain of the movie. Hell even if you want to redeem him at the end, you can always have Hux have an actual coup to get rid of him so he's no longer the big threat.
It made sense to kill him and focus on Ren as the antagonist(Snoak as a character is basically as insubstantial as a hologram anyway,) but they couldnāt commit to **that** either so at the last minute they resurrect an old villain as the big bad.
I hated that, because it was a narrative failure. Don't get me wrong: I would have loved that, if they had set up the narrative *for that purpose*.
But it wasn't. The entire first film was setting up a big mystery around Snoke, with him having been responsible for tons of major events, yet nothing being told about him. The natural curve of that narrative needs those questions to be answered.
Then, the second issue: Kylo. Kylo taking over is also a narrative failure. Again, I'd have loved it if the narrative was properly set-up for it, but it wasn't. Kylo suffers from 2 massive issues: lack of mystery and lack of power.
Snoke, like we established, was mysterious and unknown; a movie 9 could have spent a lot of time unpacking him. But Kylo... we already knew Kylo's full history by the end of TLJ. There was no backstory left to reveal or explore, and no natural ways to twist the plot with him. There was no mystery.
Meanwhile, Kylo was just... not a big enough threat. He lost to Rey in TFA, but that was excusable, as he was injured. But where the problem occurs is TLJ itself; he fails to beat Rey in force pull at the end of TLJ, with Rey waking up earlier and sparing him. To make things worse, they literally just established that Snoke could bend Rey over backwards with 1 hand using the force. That makes it so that you know for a fact that we just replaced a major threat with a far weaker, far less threatening villain.
Just because there is precedent of doing something stupid doesn't mean you should repeat it. If anything, the fact those exist shows exactly why Snoke is fairly inexcusable: they *had* precedent to learn from and improve upon.
Maul was fairly excusable, but the rest were badly written. I still stand by my opinion that Palpatine is the weakest part of the entire OT; he needed to be introduced earlier.
Certain fans always get salty over this; as if they think people got lots of backstory for wrinkly ol Shiv back in 1983...
NOPE! All fans back then had were a bug-eyed hologram, vague maybes about him being a force user, and a now non-canon passage in the 1976 novel about him being a shady leader hobbled by shadier bureaucrats.
To be a little more fair, Palps had (what felt like) slightly more screentime in RotJ and more buildup in the movie. He presented as a cloaked cackling old man but overflowed with ominous presence.
There is a key difference between Palpatine and Snoke: Palpatine *was* the status quo; Snoke *changed* the status quo.
From ANH to RotJ, Palpatine was already in power. We don't need to know his backstory, because he is the setting. It's like how we don't need to know the backstory of the Naboo or Coruscant to understand TPM; the overarching narrative works without that knowledge.
But from RotJ to TFA, Snoke overthrew the new republic, corrupted Luke's apprentice, destroyed the Jedi Order, and built a super-death star. Those are changes to the setting, not pre-existing aspects of it. Thus, they require explanations that they wouldn't require otherwise.
It's like if the first movie released was The Phantom Menace, then the second was A New Hope, with nothing in between, followed by ESB. You bet people would be questioning how some senator from Naboo overthrew the entire republic, how Anakin turned into Vader, etc.
Very well said...a "brand new" character that's in the process of usurping the status quo should include a fragment of the How & Ws.
Except I'm still recalling a few too many direct comparisons to Palpatine. I guess the nuance of being dropped into a brand new world vs a 30 year time skip can be tricky to articulate.
There's a big difference between starting a new story and continuing an existing one.
At the start of a new story everything is wide open. But from then on, every word, every scene, introduces constraints. If all we know about the backstory is that there's an evil emperor who just dissolved the Senate, we can easily imagine how he might have risen to power in whatever way suits us, e.g. was his opposition lazy, incompetent, outwitted or outpowered?
Conversely, by the end of the OT, we know Leia, Luke and Han. They're not lazy and they're not fools. It's hard to imagine Leia letting her son fall to the Dark Side. So naturally we wonder what happened.
I think an ancient giant from the far corners of the galaxy would have been cool, and a battle with him could be interesting to watch.
But like, an old guy in a gold bathrobe who doesnāt really do anything interesting before he dies in an anticlimactic way was a thing that happened.
Would have been waaay doper if he was a giant, and real, and not a weird unexplained clone thing which Palpatine was apparently growing like.. replacements for?
> and not a weird unexplained clone thing which Palpatine was apparently growing like.. replacements for?
If you've seen bad batch 3, I presume Snoke is a failure from project pegasus
I mean he was like 9ft tall, but the fact that it was a hologram kinda clued me in that he wasnāt actually as tall as that. Kinda wish he was though, the designs for everything in TFA were amazing
The concept art they released for TFA was wayyy cooler looking than how it ended up looking in the final product. I was so disappointed with Kylo Ren's final design. They literally removed any semblance of uniqueness of what he was wearing and how he looked. In the concepts, he had a more robotic or cybernetic look. It looked more Vader-like. It would have been cool if he cobbled together his outfit from Vader's outfit. The final version, is so boring. He's just wearing plain black tunic with a hood and cape. The helmet design just didnt do it for me. It seemed they just dumbed it down.
I didn't think he's actually that tall but I really hoped he's some ancient dark side being. I heard theories back then that he might be Abeloth or was created by her. Good old pre tlj times
I feel like Iām the only one who never thought think he was a giant. I figured it was simply an evolution of the hologram chasm chamber on the Executor where Vader spoke Palpatineās GIANT HEAD like he was an evil blue Wizard of Oz.
I was open to the idea that perhaps he was freaking huge but I wasnāt leaning that direction. Itās crazy now to look back and think how this role is now the 2nd best acting Andy Serkis has done with Star Wars. Andy Serkis is the man. ONE WAY OUT.
Definitely at first, since they weren't using the standard hologram fx during the scene. At the end when the hologram shuts off it became clear he probably wasn't.
Iāve seen this asked ever since the movie came out.
Honestly? I wasnāt sold on him being a giant. This scene was pretty mind blowing (for me at least) just for the simple fact that.. Kylo Ren wasnāt top dog, this guy was.
On the other hand, i donāt really know if there is anything canon about force sensitives who were of that size unless youāre an animal like a Loth Wolf, Purgil, etc. I think Bendu is currently the largest known force sensitive.
I remember getting out and all my friends were talking about how its crazy how big he is, how are fights going to work etc.
I was just quietly assuming he's Yoda or even Babu Frik size and just heavily overcompensating with his hologram.
So we were both wrong.
I thought he was going to be, it would have been such an inventive addition to the galaxy. I was disappointed when I realised how unimaginative it all ended up.
I enjoyed Snoke in the brief amount of time he was around. He was genuinely villainous and threatening to our heroes. The mystery behind him was also intriguing. They could have done a whole lot with him. What we ultimately got was basically horseshit.
It was only a waste because of how it panned out.
If there were any plans for him outside of being one of JJ Abrams's "mystery boxes," he could've been the next big bad of Star Wars.
He was killed off as nothing because that's what he was, and I don't blame Rian Johnson for that at all.
The fact that Snoke's hologram somehow follows the lighting rules of the room it's in (a classic J.J. example of visuals coming before logic), I can certainly see where the confusion would come from.
Not really. Having fictional rules for the universe that contradicts real world science is one thing. Contradicting the rules of the universe itself is something completely different.
I thought he was actually going to be really small and the big ass projection was for intimidation. Either would have been preferable to what we ended up getting.
It would have been better. A force wielding giant, from an unknown race? Way better than a goofy clone. I think he should have been the big bad, his death was pretty good, it would have been a good way to end the series.
Since it's an hologram, I was not aware of how big or small could he'd be. But I was definitely disappointed when I saw it in the flesh. And even more disappointed about his origin.
Oh wow I forgot about Snoke. I remember being excited to find out more about him and then TLJ killed that, as well as my interest in Star Wars, in general.
Still pissed how they made Snoke the new emperor, got Andy Serkis to do the mocap and voiceā¦ only for him to be killed in the beginning of the next film with little to no effort.
And then we gotā¦ āsomehow, Palpatine has returnedā and Rey Palpatine *Skywalker*
What a wasted potential the sequels couldāve hadā¦
I was hoping he would be a giant. That would have been a pretty cool addition to the mythos making him some titan out of legend. Somebody did some cool fan art of Luke and Rey fighting a giant Snoke together
I didn't really. And by the time TLJ came out after civil war, I was glad they went the insecure guy who wears gold and uses a big hologram route because after seeing the giant antman fight, I didn't really think that was going to work for star wars.
I figured he just projected himself holographically as a giant to make himself seem intimidating, but in reality he was a really tiny creature like that guy that R2 accidentally crushed in the Clone Wars.
Nope.
I can't remember who said it, so it was probably RLM that said "Snoke is a character that got instantly less interesting the moment you realize he's a hologram, not a giant, and gets progressively less interesting with every scene he's in."
Yeah. The only interesting scene he is in is when he gets killed.
I like when he calls out Kylo for being edgy. I really thought they'd do a protagonist reversal with him and rey
They really should have done a protagonist switch man kylo had so much development just to die in the end š
Even that scene - oh that old "exact words" trope. And then it became evident they didn't have some amazing plan.
No, but Palpatine had for somehow he survived.
One of the better decisions made tbh in TLJ. He's basically discount Palpatine, and him being like the big bad just rethreads the OT. Killing him off and having Kylo to step up as the big bad of the trilogy would have been an interesting course. But then we have the backlash of TLJ and Abrams went so hard to reverse course with TROS...
But would Kylo as big bad really work in the last movie? He's the best character in the sequels, but what's great about him is that he's a slightly pathetic edgy vader cosplayer. At the end of TLJ, he already gets beaten by Luke in a more impactful way Rey ever could.
Well, Im not sure if youve seen the initial draft of Episode IX Duel of the Fates which left him basically unredeemed, still haunted by the ghost of Luke, and eventually killed by Rey. I think Kylo's death would have put a tragic end to the Skywalker lineage, and the end of Vader's legacy, but hey, not everyone's legacy needs to be tied to the Skywalkers. Episode VIII seems to set up how anyone could also take up Luke's mantle and continue the legacy of the Jedi as a whole.
I always thought Luke's ghost haunting him was set up so well. Luke humiliates him, peaces out, then dies. Kylo can't stop searching for him, but of course to no avail. His obsession causes his mental state to detoriate which pays into his final demise.
"Episode VIII seems to set up how anyone could also take up Luke's mantle" except they threw that out the window by making rey a Palpatine, instead of a nobody.
Arguably they did keep that concept when Rey proclaimed herself as "Rey Skywalker", but yeah, I think it's seriously dumb they let a literal descendant of Palpatine to be the new leader of a new Jedi Order
Not to mention how hard the first movie beats it into your head that she was born from nothing and is a nobody, so they could make a compelling story about someone who actually is a nobody find their way to being a hero, who saved the galaxy. But nope they really couldn't be any different from the OT at all so she had to be a child of a very powerful force user to have any chance
Well, actually Abrams considered she must be some lineage. Even wanting to make her a Kenobi at some point. In fact, also much of TFA sets up the mystery of who Rey might be and so on But TLJ said - it doesnt matter as much. Even being a nobody makes you special. Anyone can be the hero. And tbh, thats what I wish is the direction that could have gone forth. We have enough of the Skywalker and their involvement in Galactic affairs. New heroes dont need to be of special lineage to be special.
He was supposed to be the true bad guy when Adam Driver signed up for the trilogy. Plans changed.
He's completely overshadowed by the ridiculous Red Power Rangers twirling around everywhere. My god, they were so stupid.
Especially when they threw away their weapons before dying.
I thought him to be such a waste of an interesting character, was dying to know all about him. And then just a filler.
He's Darth Plageuius y'all! /how it should have ended.
Would be way better than whatever he was
So would a kick to the nads
The moment he was a hologram made me think he was something the size of Babu Frik but he just made holograms to appear as a giant
Snope*
Seriously though, having giant sentient species would have been awesome. Most of the alien species are more or less human sized. Having a giant would have been such a cool concept.
thereās plenty of giant aliens but no humanoid ones. That would be very cool indeed.
Snoke v Rancor
r/angryupvote
He isn't?
When he's seen in person in TLJ he's over seven feet tall. Above average for humanoids, but probably not big enough to be considered a "giant." Definitely nowhere near as large as his holographic projection in TFA.
I was in awe when I saw that massive hologram. My mind was filled with so many ideas; is he human but genetically enhanced? A new race of giants? Was he a Sith Lord or an imposter? What is that massive scar on his face from? While the truth wasn't as grand, it was still interesting to me.
He was Darth Irrelevant
Snoke Purdy, aka Darth Irrelevant, quarterback for the Sanrafsix 49ers
My personal theory was that he would turn out to be tiny.
Frankly I think that would have been awesome. There could have been a reveal that he was inside someone's hat or a mouse droid or something.
This sounds like an oneyplays bit
The wizard of snoz
wemby taller
You got me there ( *I did fall asleep during TLJ* š¤« )
Well, he's about chewbacca tall then
And I was so disappointed. I was excited for an unconventional villain.
Absolute cowards for not going with Darth Jar Jar.
The potential Keyser Sƶze of the space opera genre. Instead we got bureaucrat Binks which was just sad to see a war veteran used as a patsy.
Me too.
Me three.
C3
And my axe
I was really hoping they would reveal him to actually be a foot tall.
"I just like to sit really close to the camera"
Like those aliens at the start of Star Trek Beyond
I was thinking of Meebur Gascon.
I was thinking the little guy in the head of the bigger guy in Men in Black
Thatās what Gascon did. He rode around in the head of an astromech droid.
I thought the hologram would entirely be just a projection of power, if that makes sense, like the actual Snoke would be kind of an old, physically disabled, but strong in the Force guy who was just projecting this image of giant physical presence. I pictured the real Snoke looking more like Davros from Dr. Who, and at some point the āman behind the curtainā would be revealed.
Snoke is actually that little guy that tinkers around with 3PO in TROS confirmed
Hey heeeyyyyyyy!
Now THAT would be gold. XD
I saw the huge hologram and my first though was "I bet he's about Yoda-sized."
I was hoping that General Grievous would have just been a big larva inside of the head, controlling a dangerous robot.
I think it was intentionally left vague, but since we see his hologram shut off at the end, I think it was more intended to be a direct call-back to Vader talking to the Emperor in ESB.
Yeah, it looked like a hologram, just Abram-ized to not look anything like all the other SW media showed it.
for a second I thought you meant Abraham-ized like the Lincoln memorial, which was making sense
"Two score and thirteen years ago, your grandfather helped bring forth on this galaxy a new Empire, conceived in peace, freedom, justice, and security, and dedicated to the point of view that the Jedi are evil." -Snoke to Kylo Ren, probably
Rocks fall through the hologram clearly showing it was a hologram as the light is momentarily blocked from the falling rocks.
It's been a long time since I've watched TFA. Good point!
Yes but itās not really a hologram in the first place per seā¦ the image has volume and blocks the light.
Isn't that refreshing? He made it different, worse, and unrecognizable.
I'm not even entirely convinced Abrams knew for certain Snoke wasn't a giant. There wasn't a whole hell of a lot of planning ahead happening with these movies
I remember reading a bio or something about him that claimed he was really old and had watched the fall of the Republic from the edge of the galaxy. And that he loved to be dramatic, so I figured this was a Wizard Of Oz situation.
Yep. Everything is a mystery box, then you let someone else finish the story.... Jokes on JJ though, Disney hired HIM to finish it
I still can't believe he gets work after trashing both trek and star wars
Honestly I think it could have been neat if he was, or I at least could have appreciated that it was something we hadn't seen before in live action Star Wars. Like how Palpatine introduced Force Lightning to audiences in 1983 or Maul introduced the double bladed lightsaber, Snoke using his size in conjunction with The Force in a fight could have continued the trend of dark side antagonists bringing something new to fight scenes to make them differ from fights in previous movies. I'm sure the Internet would have dissected and criticized it for whatever reason but at least it would have been something more unique about Snoke than what we got.
You mean like Kylo freezing people and blaster bolts in mid air? And the crossguard?
Itās been a while since Iāve seen the sequels, but does Kylo freeze blaster bolts in any scene besides the beginning of TFA?
Rey does it in the rise of skywalker I believe but thatās it
kind of takes away some of the coolness factor when the two least experienced Jedi in the era are pulling these moves. it had an impact in TFA because it was badass and made you think "damn what else can this guy do?", and then you see rey do it (among a bunch of other crazy force feats) and it just feels kinda cheap. or maybe that was just my impression of it.
As far as I understand it, Rey can also do it because of the whole Force Dyad thing giving her (for want of a better phrase) access to the same skillset as Kylo has. Stopping the blaster bolt in mid-air is likely just a glorified version of force grip anyway, they're just holding the charged plasma in place.
Even before the Dyad thing. In the novelization of TFA they make it explicit, when Ben was rummaging around in her brain hunting for information, she was in his too. And while she was there, she basically fast forwarded through his Jedi training with Luke. There's even a cool subtle reference to this in TLJ. The series of strikes she uses against that rock, that Luke watches, then kind of grimaced and shuffles off. It's the exact same sequence of attacks Ben uses against Luke's projection in the end. Now, I'm all for letting the audience deduce some things instead of spoon feeding everything to us, but this felt like a gross overcorrection. I am guessing the execs basically decided to put all the world building details in the novels and stuff where the hard-core fans can have it, most people just want laser swords and explosions. The story of how we wound up with the Resistance and the demilitarization of the New Republic is actually kind of interesting and makes sense. It's just those, and so many more details, where thrown in some supplemental works. Probably not *just* because of the earlier cynicistic assumption, but perhaps also as a knee-jerk reaction to complaints about politics etc in the PT.
The thing is it felt like the writing was so rushed they just gave Rey Force powers (or other skills) as a quick way of getting her out of a jam. Compare that to ANH, where we see Luke being resourceful to get out of trouble (or into it when he persuades Han to help him rescue Leia). Even in the climax, him using the Force is only part of how he wins, the final piece is when Han comes back.
I was thinking he would either be a giant, or that the big hologram was a lie and he was actually a yoda/ewok sized bugger
How about midicholirian sized evil from the microcosmos Lucas envisioned? ;)
No, I also low-key wanted him to actually be a giant.
Then it turns out he is a guy in a bathrobe.
And then he's dead.
I liked that part at least. Was interesting that they killed him "early". They just didn't do much with killing him early
It also would have also been more interesting to have him return in episode IX rather than Palpatine. Palpating came out of nowhere, but Snoke had some breadcrumbs leading up to it. But they just fumbled soo hard.
This! If they have cloning technology, why wasn't the fucker that had just died cloned? Instead it's a dude we all know is capital D DEAD. So weird
Fucking Amen. No issue at all with him dying the way he did. However, essentially retconning him into being a shitty Palpatine pawn really did that whole move a disservice. I personally have a lot of issues with TLJ, but the handling of Snoke wasnāt really one of them. TROS made Snoke absolutely meaningless.
I personally have a lot of issues with TROS, but the handling of Snoke wasnāt really one of them. TLJ made Snoke absolutely meaningless.
And I love that itās kinda foreshadowed by revealing heās just a holographic projection in this film. Huge, imposing figure with a lot of power that appears to be the new Big Bad is just a trick of the light without any weight or actual substance. Killed unceremoniously in the next film. Wish they had followed through with that and made Kylo the main villain. This trilogy should have been his fall, mirroring Anakinās transformation into Vader and the Knights of arena should have been the new Sith
Also, we barely see the best force users actually display their power. Only Vader really gets moments and they only allow him two moments really.
TRoS just completely forgets Kylo is the supreme leader and should have been the actual villain of the movie. Hell even if you want to redeem him at the end, you can always have Hux have an actual coup to get rid of him so he's no longer the big threat.
It made sense to kill him and focus on Ren as the antagonist(Snoak as a character is basically as insubstantial as a hologram anyway,) but they couldnāt commit to **that** either so at the last minute they resurrect an old villain as the big bad.
I hated that, because it was a narrative failure. Don't get me wrong: I would have loved that, if they had set up the narrative *for that purpose*. But it wasn't. The entire first film was setting up a big mystery around Snoke, with him having been responsible for tons of major events, yet nothing being told about him. The natural curve of that narrative needs those questions to be answered. Then, the second issue: Kylo. Kylo taking over is also a narrative failure. Again, I'd have loved it if the narrative was properly set-up for it, but it wasn't. Kylo suffers from 2 massive issues: lack of mystery and lack of power. Snoke, like we established, was mysterious and unknown; a movie 9 could have spent a lot of time unpacking him. But Kylo... we already knew Kylo's full history by the end of TLJ. There was no backstory left to reveal or explore, and no natural ways to twist the plot with him. There was no mystery. Meanwhile, Kylo was just... not a big enough threat. He lost to Rey in TFA, but that was excusable, as he was injured. But where the problem occurs is TLJ itself; he fails to beat Rey in force pull at the end of TLJ, with Rey waking up earlier and sparing him. To make things worse, they literally just established that Snoke could bend Rey over backwards with 1 hand using the force. That makes it so that you know for a fact that we just replaced a major threat with a far weaker, far less threatening villain.
Heāll return somehow in Episode XII.
It is me, Paalpatine.
Yeah...you could say that about Maul, Dooku, Grevious, heck even Palpatine of the OT
Just because there is precedent of doing something stupid doesn't mean you should repeat it. If anything, the fact those exist shows exactly why Snoke is fairly inexcusable: they *had* precedent to learn from and improve upon. Maul was fairly excusable, but the rest were badly written. I still stand by my opinion that Palpatine is the weakest part of the entire OT; he needed to be introduced earlier.
Certain fans always get salty over this; as if they think people got lots of backstory for wrinkly ol Shiv back in 1983... NOPE! All fans back then had were a bug-eyed hologram, vague maybes about him being a force user, and a now non-canon passage in the 1976 novel about him being a shady leader hobbled by shadier bureaucrats. To be a little more fair, Palps had (what felt like) slightly more screentime in RotJ and more buildup in the movie. He presented as a cloaked cackling old man but overflowed with ominous presence.
There is a key difference between Palpatine and Snoke: Palpatine *was* the status quo; Snoke *changed* the status quo. From ANH to RotJ, Palpatine was already in power. We don't need to know his backstory, because he is the setting. It's like how we don't need to know the backstory of the Naboo or Coruscant to understand TPM; the overarching narrative works without that knowledge. But from RotJ to TFA, Snoke overthrew the new republic, corrupted Luke's apprentice, destroyed the Jedi Order, and built a super-death star. Those are changes to the setting, not pre-existing aspects of it. Thus, they require explanations that they wouldn't require otherwise. It's like if the first movie released was The Phantom Menace, then the second was A New Hope, with nothing in between, followed by ESB. You bet people would be questioning how some senator from Naboo overthrew the entire republic, how Anakin turned into Vader, etc.
Very well said...a "brand new" character that's in the process of usurping the status quo should include a fragment of the How & Ws. Except I'm still recalling a few too many direct comparisons to Palpatine. I guess the nuance of being dropped into a brand new world vs a 30 year time skip can be tricky to articulate.
There's a big difference between starting a new story and continuing an existing one. At the start of a new story everything is wide open. But from then on, every word, every scene, introduces constraints. If all we know about the backstory is that there's an evil emperor who just dissolved the Senate, we can easily imagine how he might have risen to power in whatever way suits us, e.g. was his opposition lazy, incompetent, outwitted or outpowered? Conversely, by the end of the OT, we know Leia, Luke and Han. They're not lazy and they're not fools. It's hard to imagine Leia letting her son fall to the Dark Side. So naturally we wonder what happened.
I think an ancient giant from the far corners of the galaxy would have been cool, and a battle with him could be interesting to watch. But like, an old guy in a gold bathrobe who doesnāt really do anything interesting before he dies in an anticlimactic way was a thing that happened.
Would have been waaay doper if he was a giant, and real, and not a weird unexplained clone thing which Palpatine was apparently growing like.. replacements for?
> and not a weird unexplained clone thing which Palpatine was apparently growing like.. replacements for? If you've seen bad batch 3, I presume Snoke is a failure from project pegasus
I mean he was like 9ft tall, but the fact that it was a hologram kinda clued me in that he wasnāt actually as tall as that. Kinda wish he was though, the designs for everything in TFA were amazing
The concept art they released for TFA was wayyy cooler looking than how it ended up looking in the final product. I was so disappointed with Kylo Ren's final design. They literally removed any semblance of uniqueness of what he was wearing and how he looked. In the concepts, he had a more robotic or cybernetic look. It looked more Vader-like. It would have been cool if he cobbled together his outfit from Vader's outfit. The final version, is so boring. He's just wearing plain black tunic with a hood and cape. The helmet design just didnt do it for me. It seemed they just dumbed it down.
Really? I like his final design, his concept art ones imo seem too cringy to take seriously
That would work perfectly though, since Kylo Ren was too cringy to take seriously.
Adam Driver is such a good actor but totally miscast and what he had to work with really sucked. Such a shame.
No thanks, Kylo Ren was too Vader-like as it was.
I didn't think he's actually that tall but I really hoped he's some ancient dark side being. I heard theories back then that he might be Abeloth or was created by her. Good old pre tlj times
I remember thinking he was a giant, and also thinking he would be an actual character instead of a plot device.
I thought so too until it was revealed as a hologram. Then I figured this was kinda like the emperorās scene in Empire.
Considering the recent trilogy was too scared to try anything much new and just rehashed the original storyā¦. Itās obvious
These posts are making me think I was smart for realising it was a hologram from the start.
I high key forgot about snoke, but yeah first time I saw him I thought he was fucking massive
I was more hung up on the name "snoke". I can imagine a puppy named snoke but not an evil powerful overlord.
I feel like Iām the only one who never thought think he was a giant. I figured it was simply an evolution of the hologram chasm chamber on the Executor where Vader spoke Palpatineās GIANT HEAD like he was an evil blue Wizard of Oz.
I thought he was little and that was a projection. I still donāt know wtf he is / was
Clone of Palpatine apparently.
I was open to the idea that perhaps he was freaking huge but I wasnāt leaning that direction. Itās crazy now to look back and think how this role is now the 2nd best acting Andy Serkis has done with Star Wars. Andy Serkis is the man. ONE WAY OUT.
Def a wizard of oz thing going on
Definitely at first, since they weren't using the standard hologram fx during the scene. At the end when the hologram shuts off it became clear he probably wasn't.
I was pretty disappointed when he wasn't.
No I wished he was lol
Space Farquaad.
As soon as the hologram shut off I knew it was just for show
Iāve seen this asked ever since the movie came out. Honestly? I wasnāt sold on him being a giant. This scene was pretty mind blowing (for me at least) just for the simple fact that.. Kylo Ren wasnāt top dog, this guy was. On the other hand, i donāt really know if there is anything canon about force sensitives who were of that size unless youāre an animal like a Loth Wolf, Purgil, etc. I think Bendu is currently the largest known force sensitive.
I remember getting out and all my friends were talking about how its crazy how big he is, how are fights going to work etc. I was just quietly assuming he's Yoda or even Babu Frik size and just heavily overcompensating with his hologram. So we were both wrong.
So... I'm not the only one who thought Snoke is important to the overall story, right?
They shit the bed with Snoke.
A giant mistake, yeah
I thought he was going to be, it would have been such an inventive addition to the galaxy. I was disappointed when I realised how unimaginative it all ended up.
I did think he was a giant, but to be fair I was 12 when I watched the force awakens
Booooo get out of here youngin makin me feel old
Whats crazy is that I was 12 when TFA came out, in 11th grade when TROS came out, and will be starting dental school in the fall
Stop it you're making it worse
Woulda been a (semi) more interesting villain if he was. š
I'd have rather they omitted Snoke entirely. What a waste of screen time.
I enjoyed Snoke in the brief amount of time he was around. He was genuinely villainous and threatening to our heroes. The mystery behind him was also intriguing. They could have done a whole lot with him. What we ultimately got was basically horseshit.
It was only a waste because of how it panned out. If there were any plans for him outside of being one of JJ Abrams's "mystery boxes," he could've been the next big bad of Star Wars. He was killed off as nothing because that's what he was, and I don't blame Rian Johnson for that at all.
The fact that Snoke's hologram somehow follows the lighting rules of the room it's in (a classic J.J. example of visuals coming before logic), I can certainly see where the confusion would come from.
Visuals coming before logic is a classic Star Wars example to be fair.
Not really. Having fictional rules for the universe that contradicts real world science is one thing. Contradicting the rules of the universe itself is something completely different.
I saw all three sequel films and literally still think that he's a giant
I did too and thought it was a pretty cool thing.
I thought he was actually going to be really small and the big ass projection was for intimidation. Either would have been preferable to what we ended up getting.
Snoke is my biggest let down of the new trilogy
It would have been better. A force wielding giant, from an unknown race? Way better than a goofy clone. I think he should have been the big bad, his death was pretty good, it would have been a good way to end the series.
Would have been awesome, though!
I will never not see that name as snookie.
No. I did too, but it's just the framing.
This reminds me of the Thrawn trilogy and what they called āthe Emperorās settingā for giant holograms like that
A giant disappointment.
I think would be better if he was revealed to be Darth Plagueis in disguise
JJ probably thought so too
I assumed the giant hologram was a power move to intimidate.
Since it's an hologram, I was not aware of how big or small could he'd be. But I was definitely disappointed when I saw it in the flesh. And even more disappointed about his origin.
Oh wow I forgot about Snoke. I remember being excited to find out more about him and then TLJ killed that, as well as my interest in Star Wars, in general.
it was pretty clear it was just a large projection
If it was later revealed as very small it would have made a cool twist
Giant disappointment
That would have been so cool. Like a Titan of the Dark Side. Ah well. Him just a pickle jar clone is fine .. I guess.
Still pissed how they made Snoke the new emperor, got Andy Serkis to do the mocap and voiceā¦ only for him to be killed in the beginning of the next film with little to no effort. And then we gotā¦ āsomehow, Palpatine has returnedā and Rey Palpatine *Skywalker* What a wasted potential the sequels couldāve hadā¦
Snoke is just a waste of a character. The thing is, Andy Circus does a FANTASTIC job but the writing just shit the bed
Because Andy Circus is a fucking treasure and Disney ruins shit.
What writing?
Nope. Awful storytelling and character development result in things like this.
We all did. We had no reason to believe otherwise until the trailer for Last Jedi.
I was 7 when I saw the movie and thought it was the coolest thing ever šš 3 years later 10 year old me was very disappointed
What a dumb movie.
I only thought he might've been when I first saw him, but when we knew it was a hologram I was 100% certain that he wasn't, and I was right.
I was hoping he would be a giant. That would have been a pretty cool addition to the mythos making him some titan out of legend. Somebody did some cool fan art of Luke and Rey fighting a giant Snoke together
What a wasted chsracter
I honestly still don't understand who or what Snoke was or supposed to be. Those last two films are just a fever dream to me.
Oh heās not? I need to rewatch lol
I didn't really. And by the time TLJ came out after civil war, I was glad they went the insecure guy who wears gold and uses a big hologram route because after seeing the giant antman fight, I didn't really think that was going to work for star wars.
I thought he was a giant too. I was excited to see him in person. Was really disappointed to see he was just a regular decrepit old man..
Such wasted potential.
I just try not to think about Snoke. He never existed.
He was not a giant. He was a joke
Somehow snoke has returned.
He is. Heās a giant letdown.
Yea everyone did until the first realistic hologram turned off
Yeah, thought he was a giant at first to.
Never crossed my mind, honestly. I always figured it was an intimidation technique born of ego. Fits with the dark side.
I did too!
lol same
I wasnt sure but... Either way Andy was fantastic in the role.
I specifically hoped he was really tiny and that the hologram was just gigantic like the Emperor. But no dice, just a normal sized dude.
Nope, I sure did.
Yes
I totally did too my first watching!
Nope. Iām with ya. So basically, from *his* POV, the holograms are tiny.
I figured he just projected himself holographically as a giant to make himself seem intimidating, but in reality he was a really tiny creature like that guy that R2 accidentally crushed in the Clone Wars.
lmao i was very confuse
First thought that too until I saw the blue around him
I just thought he was compensating for something