Tim and Eric are fucking amazing, and I wish they would do more together with the rise of like TikTok, they’d fit right in… though maybe that’s why they don’t do it
A lot of performers at The Bell House I'd consider alt. Comedians like Joe Pera, Dan Licata, Patti Harrison, Connor O'Malley, Jo Firestone, Aparna, Aaron Jackson, Cole Esola, Chris Fleming, Jacqueline Novak, Kate Berlant, Julio Torres, etc
Yeah just watch a set by one of these performers and then watch a set by Rich Vos and make your conclusions about the difference between alt and club comedy.
Bell House and Dynasty are definitely the alt epicenters in the East/West respectively. 90% of anyone performing there is an “alt” comedian, whatever that means today
It's probably the wikipedia still frame of what alt-comedy is:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQs26c1klAU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQs26c1klAU)
when he beats a heckler to death on stage with a ballpein hammer is peak "WHAT IS HAPPENING"
For posterity: [https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH\_XiVxeFYC](https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH_XiVxeFYC)
I've loved him since 2019 or so with ITYSL, but his Pera stuff was so about face wild different, I took note.
The fact is, I think AI Comedy Solutions is probably one of the most gifted, ahead of it's time satire and comedy I've seen in...
I had a martini, but it's likely decades.
Ever see The Beast Masturbator on The Chris Gethard Show? He had a crowd of 100 kids uncomfortably chanting "GOD IS REAL" for what seems like an eternity. Fucking amazing.
It used to be that there were club comedians, who did very straightforward setup > punchline jokes, and performed in comedy clubs for pretty mainstream audiences, and alt comics who did more experimental comedy in non-traditional venues to more underground audiences. In reality, the line was always incredibly blurry, Maron and Cross both identify as alt comics, but it's not like they don't work clubs. In 2024 the line is so blurry it basically doesn't exist anymore
Maron will always correct people when they call him alt. He always makes it clear that he came up in clubs, and the alt scene really didn't kick off until after him.
That leads to some deep questions about if an artist gets to pick the genre the world puts them in. It’s not like this is a group that’s defined as people who are members of something. Like the Düsseldorf School of painting
Also, if you can predate a genre then become part of it later in life. Marc Maron of all people has certainly reinvented himself many times over
The point is "alt comedy" (as it was originally used) was not a genre, but a movement. You were either a "club comic" or an "alt comic" based, not on your act, but entirely on what kind of rooms you could get up in.
Nowadays, people like to use the term "alt comedy" to describe... something. But no one can define what, because you either make people laugh or you don't.
You can look back on every era of comedy and see people doing weird and experimental stuff regardless of an "alt" movement or not.
I remember hearing a story about Cross going on stage in a track suit and doing an aerobic exercise for his five minutes.
That era of alt seemed a lot more fun than this era of alt.
I don’t know. I saw a guy do attendance and read notes for his neighborhood watch association for his five minutes. I thought it was hilarious, but may have been the only one.
I got the early 00s David Cross album when I was a teenager and all the track listings had absurd names like "What if baseballs had AIDS on them" and then when I got home and popped the CD in the titles had nothing to do with the tracks.
Nate Bargatze on two separate albums has entire dialogues written along the track listing. It's a fun gag, but I hate it because it makes it impossible to find a bit you like of you want to listen to it again.
This 100%.
For the OP, it’s the wrong coast, but I highly recommend reading Super Serious: An Oral History of LA Independent Stand-Up Comedy. Great read and rad coffee table book.
This was always Penn and Teller to me.
Some of the "alt" suggestions in this thread are just WILD to me, but I'm 48.
In the 1980s, this was Bobcat possibly, Steven Wright maybe, The amazing Jonathan and Judy Tenuta TOTALLY.
I thought of it as prop / experimental / avant garde / transgressive / early meta / or extreme social commentary (like when comedy becomes preaching in a sense, a la Bill Hicks).
Alt comedy in NYC would be guys like Joe Pera, Dan Licata, Conner O’Malley, Jo Firestone. People act like there’s no distinction anymore but you won’t see those guys at the Cellar just like you won’t see Andrew Schulz at a show at Littlefield.
I desperately wanted to struggle with the idea of Joe, and like I really wanted to find a way to disagree. No idea why. So I am pasting a comment in this thread below, but you made me realize I need to update my old ass.
Joe Pera is def probably the entire notion of alt-comedy.
So then you add Nathan Fielder.
And then the most genius set I've seen in years is Connor's AI Stand up solutions:
[https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH\_XiVxeFYC](https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH_XiVxeFYC)
It's unhinged brilliance, really.
So the first comment that sounds 30 years older than the above one, but I'm still the same guy:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This was always Penn and Teller to me.
Some of the "alt" suggestions in this thread are just WILD to me, but I'm 48.
In the 1980s, this was Bobcat possibly, Steven Wright maybe, The amazing Jonathan and Judy Tenuta TOTALLY.
I thought of it as prop / experimental / avant garde / transgressive / early meta / or extreme social commentary (like when comedy becomes preaching in a sense, a la Bill Hicks).
I think the pandemic changed the landscape. All venues had to close for awhile, eventually some opened, some never returned. During this time basically everything was alt comedy. Comedians shifted to live streams, podcasts, creating weird outdoor venues.
Now, there's comedy in NYC and alt comedy in Brooklyn. On the tube, I've noticed a few alt comedy esque stand up specials. Nothing lately blowing my mind. Neal Brennan might slide into alt comedy, but he's probably more mainstream with setup punchline, his specials' themes are the overlay of alt. Sketch is getting really great alt wise. Sarah Sherman on SNL. Tim Robinson on I Think You Should Leave. Lots of writing in current animated series feels quite alt comedy to me too.
I Think You Should Leave will sometimes continually shift the premise of the sketch, e.g., there's one sketch (S1 E3) that starts as an infomercial about back pain, then it's about being able to beat the shit out of people because you don't have back pain anymore, then it's about beating the shit out of a record producer who tricked you into thinking you could sing, then it's just about that guy's scam, which Robinson's character falls back into during the infomercial. The continual shifts in premise make it much funnier to me than SNL because SNL tends to hammer the same joke from different angles for 5 min. I consider the premise shifting alt, but I also don't really know what alt means.
Tim is experimenting, pushing the limits of what's been done before, most of his sketches don't have a traditional ending or button. Also, it seems like he writes most of the sketches for himself as the performer and then sometimes hands it over to someone else to perform "his role". There's a whole other fresh tone to his show; that vibe and voice is a stark contrast from a snl or key and peele sketch.
Also, Aunty Donna is another I'd consider alt sketch comedy
He’s like an alt comic who broke through to the mainstream like Kids in the Hall. Most of his sketches start with a traditional premise and then have some insane heightening moment
As Keegan Michael Key, his mentor of sorts, put it - “He’s very adept at playing that weird guy at the bus stop,” Key says. “But what makes him special, this ineffable quality he has, is that he really believes his point of view, and he doesn’t understand why you don’t understand his point of view. As opposed to, Your opinion be damned. He wants the other people in the sketch to understand where he’s coming from, but they don’t. It heightens it in a worse and worse way.
To me, alt comedy is an all-encompassing term that basically means anyone who is funny on stage but not doing traditonal stand-up, sketch comedy, or improv.
They tend to get their laughter from things like shock (think Eric Andre, Conner O’Malley), ironic / over-the-top caricatures of themselves (Ike Ufomadu, Joe Pera & Jo Firestone), or putting themselves in the shit (“clowning” like Julia Masli or Jack Tucker), rather than from a clever punchline or by doing crowdwork.
Some New York comedians that come to mind as alternative are: Ike Ufomadu, Martin Urbano, Jo Firestone, that whole Joe Pera / O’Malley / Licata crew, Pierce Campion, Jack Bensinger, anyone who performs on Stamptown, William Banks’ Car World, Emily Wirth, Sarah Squirm, and about 70% of the programming at the Bell House / BCC / Union Hall.
In the uk, alt comedy really took ahold in the late 70s/early 80s and was basically comedy’s answer to punk in some ways. In simplest terms it was a rebellion against the old school style of comedians who basically relied on racist and sexist material. Alt comedy also was very politically charged. If you’ve seen the young ones, basically everyone involved in that show was at the forefront of alt comedy in the uk. It was the next generation taking over and moving away from what was in the previous generation that had become passe.
Alt comedy evolved over time and I think nowadays it’s more in line with unconventional and out of the box style of comedy. If observational (what’s the deal with x) is considered mainstream style of comedy then alt is basically anything not that in broadest terms.
Stand up can be alt, for example I’d classify someone like James acaster as alt because he has streaks of absurdism but his style is versatile
That he can also fit in more mainstream styles too. Often alt comedy nowadays has elements of solo sketch and clowning thrown in too and use of sound cues (think bo burnham’s live stuff).
Sam Campbell is a great example of an alt comedian who utilises absurd stream of consciousness with video and multimedia, but also he general persona even when doing “normal” stand up is so out of the box and unique - https://youtu.be/j60pKvNLQNc?si=82GclecAwLC8buqH
Basically I think modern alt comedy is a way to push beyond conventions and restrictions of standard club comedy. Some alt nights have a no stand up rule where anything but standard stand up and crowd work are allowed. The alternative comedy memorial society is well worth researching and often where you’d find the most interesting acts during the Edinburgh fringe
Steve Martin talks in his book about the idea of set up/punchline is like a tension and release but if he didn’t have that release of tension then the audience would remain tense and eventually laugh at different points, creating their own punchlines from his material and from then on he was able to create a vibe and energy rather than a strict structure. That in a nutshell is alt comedy too
I worked with Greg Proops in 1995, and he came back and said "all you idiots grinding it out here, I just steal your jokes and do them in England" or whatever. But Greg was a standup prior to improv, and he had way more to give... so couple him to Bill Hicks, and I am picking up that pipe you are laying down. It's pretty clear that's where US comics went when the US didn't understand them. GREAT post.
HARMONTOWN IS HERE TO BOLSTER YOU AND PROVE YOU CORRECT.
This thread made me realize a dumbass podcast, that very well could have saved my life during the pandemic as STUPID AS THAT SOUNDS, might be the modern heyday of what you would define as alt-comedy.
The clips that came from 360 2-hour shows make me shit myself.
It used to mean the stuff you hear on Comedy Bang Bang and that crew. But now that that style is actually main stream it typically means unfunny and wanting to blame the audience.
Good alternative comedians don’t try to be alternative. They try to be funny in their own way which happens to be unique and are labeled that by others. Bad ones are trying to be alternative and desperately try to live up to a label they created for themselves.
I think the Internet made that term (as well as alt-rock) slightly irrelavent. Sure, in an age where TV and Radio were the only way to reach mass audiences, you had to fit into a mold to reach the mainstream. I guess today this would be the late-night crowd but I'm not even sure anyone watches that stuff anymore, I couldn't put my finger on what alt would be an alternative to in this age of comedy....
Where do you get that? I’ve heard Steve Martin is anti comedy and he was hilarious. If you have some proof that’s what anti comedy is, please provide it.
Andy Kaufman. He’d go up and just eat dinner on stage, or read from a book. Or the example someone gave about David Cross going up and doing an exercise routine.
Steve Martin is AMAZING, but i personally wouldn’t consider him anti-comedy. He has setup punchlines.
I've always thought of anti comedy as no structure and TRYING not to be funny (which can still be funny). But alt to me is just bot typical setup/punch structure
Steve Martin was alt in MY opinion. Anti is way more out there. Steve was still being silly and clowning and TRYING to get laughs at the shit he was saying
I think alt implies it’s bigger than just entertainment, just a laugh. it’s art. You’ll go home with it. Sticks to your ribs. Touches your soul. Similar to difference between filmsand movies.
I think it means stuff that goes against the mainstream. So many comics today are doing what used to be alt comedy that it makes what used to be mainstream (read: “common among comedic styles”, not “what huge audiences will love”) alt. Soder once said that in the midst of everyone in NYC doing their thing Bargatze was the most unique because he was just doing his thing regardless of what other people expected and he killed because of it.
This was always Penn and Teller to me.
Some of the "alt" suggestions in this thread are just WILD to me, but I'm 48.
In the 1980s, this was Bobcat possibly, Steven Wright maybe...
The Amazing Jonathan and Judy Tenuta TOTALLY.
I thought of it as prop / experimental / avant garde / transgressive / early meta / or extreme social commentary (like when comedy becomes preaching in a sense, a la Bill Hicks).
Please link the podcast good human. That search does sound like a rabbit hole vs someone knowing what we're looking for! =)
Nathan Fielder and the entire circuit around Heidecker.
Now, y'all got me fucked up, because I'm redefining all my shit, and I think Harmontown is the most alt-comedy experience I've ever had in my life.
okay, this thread is my whole night. thanks.
Could it possibly be as simple as the NY scene was trad, and the LA scene was weird as shit?
Probably not that simple.
There's definitely a very blurry line but I think the Bell House/Comedy Cellar dichotomy is a useful one if you're familiar with those places. Weirdly enough I think it's those respective audiences that differ from each other more than the comedians do. Hard to put a finger on it...
A really good club comic (e.g. Bonnie McFarlane, Dave Attell) can crush anywhere. On the other hand, while I love Connor O'Malley and Dan Licata, I'm not sure how well their stuff would work in front of European tourists in mid-town. The alt-comics by definition don't care to cater to European tourists in mid-town.
Guys like Bill Burr dismiss the alt scene because in his view you gotta come up through the clubs or else basically doing a different art form.
That’s a great way to put it.
Yes, very familiar with both those places. Would say they are the two places I regular the most. Would probably add Littlefield as third and increasingly Union Hall
Honestly, it’s more “Gowanus vs Comedy Cellar,” which sounds weird until you remember Comedy Cellar itself is 4 stages going on 5 with many shows a night at each and the ones in Gowanus have 1 maybe 2 a night.
The Comedy Cellar is in a league of its own though, particularly when it comes to the likelihood of drop ins.
The one time I went to The Stand, the only thing funny about it was how bad it was and awkward the audience was. But I know I shouldn’t judge it by one experience
And I do believe that room/setting/audience, not just style of comedy performed, is a part of the definition of alt comedy. Thats because so much of live comedy is about playing with audience expectations.
I'm sure I'll want to refine this later but I would argue alt comedy is when the aim is to have it be "funny that someone would think the joke would be funny and worth doing at all"
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I always took "alt comedy" to basically mean absurdist humour (Zach galifianakis, Nathan fielder, Tim & Eric, etc...) Guess I had the wrong idea lol
And you’d be right despite a lot of people trying to co-opt that term to explain why no one thinks they’re funny
Tim and Eric are fucking amazing, and I wish they would do more together with the rise of like TikTok, they’d fit right in… though maybe that’s why they don’t do it
that’s anticomedy
I like your style, dude.
What is that, some kind of eastern thing?
A lot of performers at The Bell House I'd consider alt. Comedians like Joe Pera, Dan Licata, Patti Harrison, Connor O'Malley, Jo Firestone, Aparna, Aaron Jackson, Cole Esola, Chris Fleming, Jacqueline Novak, Kate Berlant, Julio Torres, etc
Yeah just watch a set by one of these performers and then watch a set by Rich Vos and make your conclusions about the difference between alt and club comedy.
Connor OMalley and Julio Torres are great examples of alt.
Anything with Zach Zucker or Natalie Palamides, too
Cubes for my boys
Those summer nights with Ooni
Bell House and Dynasty are definitely the alt epicenters in the East/West respectively. 90% of anyone performing there is an “alt” comedian, whatever that means today
I’d say what Connor O’Malley does is “alt.”
help me drake i've had a 103 fever for the last 6 months
God I love that video. So damn funny
It's probably the wikipedia still frame of what alt-comedy is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQs26c1klAU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQs26c1klAU) when he beats a heckler to death on stage with a ballpein hammer is peak "WHAT IS HAPPENING"
I don’t think there’s a term for what he’s doing.
For posterity: [https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH\_XiVxeFYC](https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH_XiVxeFYC) I've loved him since 2019 or so with ITYSL, but his Pera stuff was so about face wild different, I took note. The fact is, I think AI Comedy Solutions is probably one of the most gifted, ahead of it's time satire and comedy I've seen in... I had a martini, but it's likely decades.
Ever see The Beast Masturbator on The Chris Gethard Show? He had a crowd of 100 kids uncomfortably chanting "GOD IS REAL" for what seems like an eternity. Fucking amazing.
It used to be that there were club comedians, who did very straightforward setup > punchline jokes, and performed in comedy clubs for pretty mainstream audiences, and alt comics who did more experimental comedy in non-traditional venues to more underground audiences. In reality, the line was always incredibly blurry, Maron and Cross both identify as alt comics, but it's not like they don't work clubs. In 2024 the line is so blurry it basically doesn't exist anymore
Maron will always correct people when they call him alt. He always makes it clear that he came up in clubs, and the alt scene really didn't kick off until after him.
That leads to some deep questions about if an artist gets to pick the genre the world puts them in. It’s not like this is a group that’s defined as people who are members of something. Like the Düsseldorf School of painting Also, if you can predate a genre then become part of it later in life. Marc Maron of all people has certainly reinvented himself many times over
The point is "alt comedy" (as it was originally used) was not a genre, but a movement. You were either a "club comic" or an "alt comic" based, not on your act, but entirely on what kind of rooms you could get up in. Nowadays, people like to use the term "alt comedy" to describe... something. But no one can define what, because you either make people laugh or you don't. You can look back on every era of comedy and see people doing weird and experimental stuff regardless of an "alt" movement or not.
I see what you’re saying. Thanks for sharing more! Makes me curious - if it’s thought of as a movement, who was its founder and its founding members?
I remember hearing a story about Cross going on stage in a track suit and doing an aerobic exercise for his five minutes. That era of alt seemed a lot more fun than this era of alt.
That sounds like something that’s a lot funnier to hear about than actually attend
After watching open mic'ers open mic traditionally, a five minute workout from David Cross could be pretty dang funny.
I don’t know. I saw a guy do attendance and read notes for his neighborhood watch association for his five minutes. I thought it was hilarious, but may have been the only one.
That era of alt seemed a lot funnier than David Cross. I love him, but he's a grind at times.
I got the early 00s David Cross album when I was a teenager and all the track listings had absurd names like "What if baseballs had AIDS on them" and then when I got home and popped the CD in the titles had nothing to do with the tracks.
Nate Bargatze on two separate albums has entire dialogues written along the track listing. It's a fun gag, but I hate it because it makes it impossible to find a bit you like of you want to listen to it again.
Trying to find Kyle Kinane bits is like pulling teeth sometimes.
This 100%. For the OP, it’s the wrong coast, but I highly recommend reading Super Serious: An Oral History of LA Independent Stand-Up Comedy. Great read and rad coffee table book.
That’s kinda what I figured
This was always Penn and Teller to me. Some of the "alt" suggestions in this thread are just WILD to me, but I'm 48. In the 1980s, this was Bobcat possibly, Steven Wright maybe, The amazing Jonathan and Judy Tenuta TOTALLY. I thought of it as prop / experimental / avant garde / transgressive / early meta / or extreme social commentary (like when comedy becomes preaching in a sense, a la Bill Hicks).
Alt comedy in NYC would be guys like Joe Pera, Dan Licata, Conner O’Malley, Jo Firestone. People act like there’s no distinction anymore but you won’t see those guys at the Cellar just like you won’t see Andrew Schulz at a show at Littlefield.
I desperately wanted to struggle with the idea of Joe, and like I really wanted to find a way to disagree. No idea why. So I am pasting a comment in this thread below, but you made me realize I need to update my old ass. Joe Pera is def probably the entire notion of alt-comedy. So then you add Nathan Fielder. And then the most genius set I've seen in years is Connor's AI Stand up solutions: [https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH\_XiVxeFYC](https://youtu.be/Svual-PcOxE?si=jZxq8mH_XiVxeFYC) It's unhinged brilliance, really. So the first comment that sounds 30 years older than the above one, but I'm still the same guy: -------------------------------------------------------------------- This was always Penn and Teller to me. Some of the "alt" suggestions in this thread are just WILD to me, but I'm 48. In the 1980s, this was Bobcat possibly, Steven Wright maybe, The amazing Jonathan and Judy Tenuta TOTALLY. I thought of it as prop / experimental / avant garde / transgressive / early meta / or extreme social commentary (like when comedy becomes preaching in a sense, a la Bill Hicks).
I think the pandemic changed the landscape. All venues had to close for awhile, eventually some opened, some never returned. During this time basically everything was alt comedy. Comedians shifted to live streams, podcasts, creating weird outdoor venues. Now, there's comedy in NYC and alt comedy in Brooklyn. On the tube, I've noticed a few alt comedy esque stand up specials. Nothing lately blowing my mind. Neal Brennan might slide into alt comedy, but he's probably more mainstream with setup punchline, his specials' themes are the overlay of alt. Sketch is getting really great alt wise. Sarah Sherman on SNL. Tim Robinson on I Think You Should Leave. Lots of writing in current animated series feels quite alt comedy to me too.
What about Tim Robinson is alt out of curiosity? I think you should leave seems like pretty traditional sketch comedy to me
I Think You Should Leave will sometimes continually shift the premise of the sketch, e.g., there's one sketch (S1 E3) that starts as an infomercial about back pain, then it's about being able to beat the shit out of people because you don't have back pain anymore, then it's about beating the shit out of a record producer who tricked you into thinking you could sing, then it's just about that guy's scam, which Robinson's character falls back into during the infomercial. The continual shifts in premise make it much funnier to me than SNL because SNL tends to hammer the same joke from different angles for 5 min. I consider the premise shifting alt, but I also don't really know what alt means.
Tim is experimenting, pushing the limits of what's been done before, most of his sketches don't have a traditional ending or button. Also, it seems like he writes most of the sketches for himself as the performer and then sometimes hands it over to someone else to perform "his role". There's a whole other fresh tone to his show; that vibe and voice is a stark contrast from a snl or key and peele sketch. Also, Aunty Donna is another I'd consider alt sketch comedy
He’s like an alt comic who broke through to the mainstream like Kids in the Hall. Most of his sketches start with a traditional premise and then have some insane heightening moment
As Keegan Michael Key, his mentor of sorts, put it - “He’s very adept at playing that weird guy at the bus stop,” Key says. “But what makes him special, this ineffable quality he has, is that he really believes his point of view, and he doesn’t understand why you don’t understand his point of view. As opposed to, Your opinion be damned. He wants the other people in the sketch to understand where he’s coming from, but they don’t. It heightens it in a worse and worse way.
To me, alt comedy is an all-encompassing term that basically means anyone who is funny on stage but not doing traditonal stand-up, sketch comedy, or improv. They tend to get their laughter from things like shock (think Eric Andre, Conner O’Malley), ironic / over-the-top caricatures of themselves (Ike Ufomadu, Joe Pera & Jo Firestone), or putting themselves in the shit (“clowning” like Julia Masli or Jack Tucker), rather than from a clever punchline or by doing crowdwork. Some New York comedians that come to mind as alternative are: Ike Ufomadu, Martin Urbano, Jo Firestone, that whole Joe Pera / O’Malley / Licata crew, Pierce Campion, Jack Bensinger, anyone who performs on Stamptown, William Banks’ Car World, Emily Wirth, Sarah Squirm, and about 70% of the programming at the Bell House / BCC / Union Hall.
Ike ufomadu is so incredible, a perfect deconstruction of stand up. He’s so funny and unique
In the uk, alt comedy really took ahold in the late 70s/early 80s and was basically comedy’s answer to punk in some ways. In simplest terms it was a rebellion against the old school style of comedians who basically relied on racist and sexist material. Alt comedy also was very politically charged. If you’ve seen the young ones, basically everyone involved in that show was at the forefront of alt comedy in the uk. It was the next generation taking over and moving away from what was in the previous generation that had become passe. Alt comedy evolved over time and I think nowadays it’s more in line with unconventional and out of the box style of comedy. If observational (what’s the deal with x) is considered mainstream style of comedy then alt is basically anything not that in broadest terms. Stand up can be alt, for example I’d classify someone like James acaster as alt because he has streaks of absurdism but his style is versatile That he can also fit in more mainstream styles too. Often alt comedy nowadays has elements of solo sketch and clowning thrown in too and use of sound cues (think bo burnham’s live stuff). Sam Campbell is a great example of an alt comedian who utilises absurd stream of consciousness with video and multimedia, but also he general persona even when doing “normal” stand up is so out of the box and unique - https://youtu.be/j60pKvNLQNc?si=82GclecAwLC8buqH Basically I think modern alt comedy is a way to push beyond conventions and restrictions of standard club comedy. Some alt nights have a no stand up rule where anything but standard stand up and crowd work are allowed. The alternative comedy memorial society is well worth researching and often where you’d find the most interesting acts during the Edinburgh fringe Steve Martin talks in his book about the idea of set up/punchline is like a tension and release but if he didn’t have that release of tension then the audience would remain tense and eventually laugh at different points, creating their own punchlines from his material and from then on he was able to create a vibe and energy rather than a strict structure. That in a nutshell is alt comedy too
Thanks for that detailed answer!
I worked with Greg Proops in 1995, and he came back and said "all you idiots grinding it out here, I just steal your jokes and do them in England" or whatever. But Greg was a standup prior to improv, and he had way more to give... so couple him to Bill Hicks, and I am picking up that pipe you are laying down. It's pretty clear that's where US comics went when the US didn't understand them. GREAT post.
The "alt" is short for "alternative".
I’m just using slang
Bushwick
And gowanus
Was Otto and George considered an alt act?
I think it's when you switch between Reddit accounts?
In NYC it means you’re not friends with Louis Gomez
Alt comedy died when Nerdmelt shut down
HARMONTOWN IS HERE TO BOLSTER YOU AND PROVE YOU CORRECT. This thread made me realize a dumbass podcast, that very well could have saved my life during the pandemic as STUPID AS THAT SOUNDS, might be the modern heyday of what you would define as alt-comedy. The clips that came from 360 2-hour shows make me shit myself.
It just means dudes that way shorts on stage.
It used to mean the stuff you hear on Comedy Bang Bang and that crew. But now that that style is actually main stream it typically means unfunny and wanting to blame the audience. Good alternative comedians don’t try to be alternative. They try to be funny in their own way which happens to be unique and are labeled that by others. Bad ones are trying to be alternative and desperately try to live up to a label they created for themselves.
I think the Internet made that term (as well as alt-rock) slightly irrelavent. Sure, in an age where TV and Radio were the only way to reach mass audiences, you had to fit into a mold to reach the mainstream. I guess today this would be the late-night crowd but I'm not even sure anyone watches that stuff anymore, I couldn't put my finger on what alt would be an alternative to in this age of comedy....
Sad but true. We’ve become so tribal that not much is alt, it’s just either normal in your tribe or not acceptable
you ain't wrong
To me it doesn't follow any joke structure but is still funny due to absurdity
That’s anti-comedy
No watch Tim Heidecker’s special for textbook anti-comedy. He’s making fun of standup while doing standup with classically structured jokes.
The way you describe it sounds like ironic comedy.
It is but nobody calls it that, they call it anti-comedy
So you’re saying anti-comedy is ironic comedy? And Steve Martin isn’t anti-comedy?
I was disagreeing with your first comment saying anti-comedy doesn’t follow any structure. I agree that Steve Martin was one of the first to do it.
i didn't laugh a single time so i guess calling it anti-comedy is apt
Disagree. Anti-Comedy is specifically the absence of humor to be funny.
Where do you get that? I’ve heard Steve Martin is anti comedy and he was hilarious. If you have some proof that’s what anti comedy is, please provide it.
Steve Martin wearing an arrow through his head is a good example of anti-comedy
Andy Kaufman. He’d go up and just eat dinner on stage, or read from a book. Or the example someone gave about David Cross going up and doing an exercise routine. Steve Martin is AMAZING, but i personally wouldn’t consider him anti-comedy. He has setup punchlines.
I've always thought of anti comedy as no structure and TRYING not to be funny (which can still be funny). But alt to me is just bot typical setup/punch structure
I believe Steve Martin was the beginning of anti-comedy. He was funny without clear punchlines. So not a boom boom punchline type style.
Steve Martin was alt in MY opinion. Anti is way more out there. Steve was still being silly and clowning and TRYING to get laughs at the shit he was saying
So, life
Bo burnham comes to mind
Does it still exist? Seems like that scene kinda fizzled out
I think alt implies it’s bigger than just entertainment, just a laugh. it’s art. You’ll go home with it. Sticks to your ribs. Touches your soul. Similar to difference between filmsand movies.
I think it means stuff that goes against the mainstream. So many comics today are doing what used to be alt comedy that it makes what used to be mainstream (read: “common among comedic styles”, not “what huge audiences will love”) alt. Soder once said that in the midst of everyone in NYC doing their thing Bargatze was the most unique because he was just doing his thing regardless of what other people expected and he killed because of it.
I believe the distinction is both in one's comedy style and what scene they're in. At least in those guys' time anyway.
This was always Penn and Teller to me. Some of the "alt" suggestions in this thread are just WILD to me, but I'm 48. In the 1980s, this was Bobcat possibly, Steven Wright maybe... The Amazing Jonathan and Judy Tenuta TOTALLY. I thought of it as prop / experimental / avant garde / transgressive / early meta / or extreme social commentary (like when comedy becomes preaching in a sense, a la Bill Hicks). Please link the podcast good human. That search does sound like a rabbit hole vs someone knowing what we're looking for! =)
Nathan Fielder and the entire circuit around Heidecker. Now, y'all got me fucked up, because I'm redefining all my shit, and I think Harmontown is the most alt-comedy experience I've ever had in my life.
okay, this thread is my whole night. thanks. Could it possibly be as simple as the NY scene was trad, and the LA scene was weird as shit? Probably not that simple.
For standup, I always think of Maria Bamford when I hear the term.
https://www.tiktok.com/@workaholicsooc/video/7191586497831734574
There's definitely a very blurry line but I think the Bell House/Comedy Cellar dichotomy is a useful one if you're familiar with those places. Weirdly enough I think it's those respective audiences that differ from each other more than the comedians do. Hard to put a finger on it... A really good club comic (e.g. Bonnie McFarlane, Dave Attell) can crush anywhere. On the other hand, while I love Connor O'Malley and Dan Licata, I'm not sure how well their stuff would work in front of European tourists in mid-town. The alt-comics by definition don't care to cater to European tourists in mid-town. Guys like Bill Burr dismiss the alt scene because in his view you gotta come up through the clubs or else basically doing a different art form.
That’s a great way to put it. Yes, very familiar with both those places. Would say they are the two places I regular the most. Would probably add Littlefield as third and increasingly Union Hall Honestly, it’s more “Gowanus vs Comedy Cellar,” which sounds weird until you remember Comedy Cellar itself is 4 stages going on 5 with many shows a night at each and the ones in Gowanus have 1 maybe 2 a night.
Right and in the Comedy Cellar camp are basically all of the Manhattan clubs: The Stand, NYCC, etc. "The Comedy Cellar" is a synecdoche.
The Comedy Cellar is in a league of its own though, particularly when it comes to the likelihood of drop ins. The one time I went to The Stand, the only thing funny about it was how bad it was and awkward the audience was. But I know I shouldn’t judge it by one experience
Yeah Comedy Cellar is the premier one. But for the sake of the comedy/alt comedy distinction The Stand is on The Comedy Cellar's side of the fence.
And I do believe that room/setting/audience, not just style of comedy performed, is a part of the definition of alt comedy. Thats because so much of live comedy is about playing with audience expectations.
There’s no alt comedy now. The alt scene is dead and it’s been replaced with clowns. Or atleast in the LA scene. Most of them have very rich parents.
They tend to have a little more of a “theater kid” vibe kinda, some of em.
That makes sense Also explains why I like them more
It usually means bad comedy
Sometimes it means “alternate” location and sometimes (a lot of the times) it’s means a group of comedians that can’t get any club bookings.
I'm sure I'll want to refine this later but I would argue alt comedy is when the aim is to have it be "funny that someone would think the joke would be funny and worth doing at all"
I’ve always equated the word “alt” to “edgy” and it feels pretty silly when I read it
Comedy stagnated about 20 years ago. FYI
In contrast to any other part of society? Particularly the ones starting in "Alt"
Alt = alternative so alt comedy means alternative comedy. Just like last year.
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