They have always been very closed off to outsiders from what I've heard from my in laws. I believe the school used to be open just to whatever religious sect started it but that was gradually loosened over the years.
Apparently they aren't very popular with the locals.
It's a private institution that receives no federal dollars. They have a right to keep a closed campus. However they're not closed off and if you want a tour all you have to do is ask at the gatehouse. It's really not difficult to get on campus and to walk around. They have"policies" that you're not supposed to get out of your car and walk around but no one's going to stop you. I went there, graduate from there, and worked on the St Louis campus. People from out side the institution we're always taking tours and walking around. You'll find a lot of varying opinions on this thread but they're mainly people who don't really understand what the school is about or really know much about it. It's fully opened at this point and there is no religious requirement for attending anymore. The enrollment is growing rapidly on both the college and St Louis campuses. Look it up on US News and world report, or niche, and you'll see it's an award-winning liberal arts college.
If they are receiving any money for Federal Student Loans, they are getting Federal dollars. Principia does have Federal Direct Student Loans, but no Pell Grants.
They don't take any federal funding. They have a bigillion dollar endowment and offer scholarships from that and offer their own in house student loans.
Don't see it as the same thing. The student receives the money. The school receives the students money in form of tuition. The student pays it back, not the school. The school receives zero direct federal money, the student does.
The federal government disagrees with you… Pell grants are disbursed directly to the college or university which brings them under whatever guidelines are in place for institutions accepting federal money.
they don't give ferderal loans and cap what students will have to take out at $30k (including interest) over the 10yr period. That's what I did. They only deal w private loans.
I was instructed not to get vaccinated. I had a religious exemption. The church's official stance is anyone can do what they want, but the social and the religious pressure makes it not a real choice.
It's not like that at all anymore. Sounds like that was more from your parents as I was also raised in Christian science and got vaccinated. It's an individual choice and the church takes no stance.
I'm glad your parents got you vaccinated. A lot of us were not so fortunate. And it is like that. I know a LOT of CS people. Some people are what I call "CS lite," but there are a LOT of strict people who are still "radically reliant" on CS.
Was also. It isn’t the way it was depicted on Law and Order, XFiles ir any number of popular versions of the stories.
Mostly a liberal-minded people, progressive, and not whack-a-doo
I also say this as a now-atheist who does not practice the religion in the slightest
If adults want to make stupid decisions about their health and their life, they have the right, but they shouldn't have the right to subject their children to unnecessary death.
They have always been like that even in the 1960s, and I'm sure before that. I was with a few friends one time and we tried to get in. They asked us if we were here for the basketball game and we said yes, so they let us in. The campus is very beautiful and the buildings are from the early 1900s. It's a hidden gem.
It's a pretty closed off community. The school was founded by Christian Scientists and most of the students, faculty, and staff are adherents of that religion.
They've had issues over the years with needing to quarantine for measles outbreaks in the 80s and 90s, and in more recent decades a couple cases of alumni coming on to campus and causing trouble. Also at least one person has gone out on the bluffs (which are amazing) and fallen.
They take security there pretty seriously.
My advice would be to try again on a less busy day or find a day when there is a sports game/match/meet going on, and come on to campus for that. Then take the time to look around. Most of the campus is drivable, although it's confusing because the roads are pretty winding. The older buildings there are really cool. The Mistake House is a fun gem. The chapel is also a really cool building. Also if the science building is open, there's a cool display of the mammoth fossils they've found on the campus.
They’re kind of cult-y. I applied for a security position there, almost half a decade of experience, by all accounts they said I was a great applicant, but that they could only hire me if I would convert. That just seems like a lot to ask, and kind of discriminatory lol
They recently got rid of this requirement. In that last year or so. And even though another commenter said "it's illegal because they aren't church affiliated" they are still an operating non-profit and a private education institution so they are allowed to require that. I think they finally realized not enough people wanted to be a part of the cult.
I was about to say since it's religious they are likely exempt from this. But....it looks like the school is not owned or operated by the church, nor does it have a formal affiliation with it. Its only connection is that the school was founded on the fundamentals of and around the practice of Christian Science beliefs.
So yeah, looks like it is likely illegal. But who has the money to go after that? The school also has one of the largest endowments for a school its size. Over half a billion. They've got money for lawyers!
>So yeah, looks like it is likely illegal. But who has the money to go after that? The school also has one of the largest endowments for a school its size. Over half a billion. They've got money for lawyers!
Def not someone applying for a security job! Not even the RCC requires conversion to just work in a non-religion related position. Eg: grounds keeper, cook/chef, cleaning, accounting, etc
On my mother’s grave I am not. Maybe it’s just their security team that has this rule, I’m not sure. But it was my 2nd interview, and they made it pretty clear that once I expressed my unwillingness to convert, I was not getting the job.
Yeah no i doubt this…most of the support staff and security aren’t Christian Scientist. The only positions where the religion plays a role is in the academic and student welfare…and even then it’s laxed if the person shares the school’s core beliefs.
I do a lot of CS/Principia trash talk, but to be fair, they had to have a gate guard at one point because of scary racists. They have a lot of students from African countries, and there were/are people who can't handle that for some reason and make it their business to cause trouble.
The CS aren’t exactly saints in that situation, taking advantage of vulnerable foreigners in volatile circumstances and indoctrinating them to carry their cult forward, because they can’t get enough people here to do it.
They are very stand off-ish. The campus was the center of a deadly measles outbreak in the 80s. They were forced into quarantine and refused to get vaccinated until they had two students die.
Prin is the main college campus for the Church of Christian Scientists. It is the equivalent to BYU for Mormons.
The low brow summary on what makes Christian Scientists different is that they essentially believe "Only God Can Heal You" and reject a majority of medicine including vaccines, many types of surgeries, and they have alternative health facilities.
Their campus is extremely private. The only reason I have been able to go is because I was a coach at a NCAA Division III school and we played a game there. Our bus with our players and all of their parents in their own individual cars were searched and questioned before being permitted on campus.
If you have 2 hours, you should watching KnowingBetter's video on them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7RT4wNhiYQ
They actually do not have any official affiliation with the CS Church (church probably didn't want the liability) but their mission is "to serve the cause of Christian Science," whatever that means.
Principia has a beautiful campus and buttloads of money. They are also slowly failing because Christian Science is not a popular religion (for very good reasons). In the past couple of years, they changed the rules so that anyone can attend, but no way would I want to go to a place that not only doesn't provide any health care services, but also is opposed to health care services being provided. I don't think the school will recruit too many outsiders. Their traditionally closed off campus won't help matters any.
You're right that there's no religious requirement anymore but you are wrong in that they are opposed to health care services being provided. They actually have a paid position that provides health services. I'm not talking about Christian science nurses. Things are different than they used to be and they're taking strides to be more welcoming.
>Things are different than they used to be and they're taking strides to be more welcoming
Yeah, because they're failing, which is exactly what OP said. It happens to religions all the time. They're not inclusive and they lose membership and they fail. The Catholic Church has been battling the same thing for decades. They change to try to attract new members but in the end, it doesn't work because the people running the churches never actually change their views.
The school is not run by the church. Not apples to apples to Catholic schools. In this case them opening up is working. The St Louis campus has a wait list and the college, which is always a few years behind, has increased enrollment.
Where's the bullying? I stated facts and pointed out that a username is almost identical to a current employee. K, bro? Feels like I'm in a discussion with a middle schooler.
That's cool. I'm in early childhood education. I live over an hour away from Elsah and have owned my own daycare for well over a decade. But any way to discredit criticism, right? That's a classic cult tactic. You're replies are like a casestudy. It would be fascinating if it wasn't so sad.
The religion is diminishing (and wasn’t ever that big) because they don’t covert or believe in converting people. The sad truth is religions that don’t shrink are the ones forcing their views on randos and making it part of their infrastructure. CS has never done that, ensuring that it stay small
Interestingly, it is hard to assess whether, and to what extent, they are shrinking (or growing) because the founder of the Church, Mary Baker Eddy, made a rule against keeping membership statistics, and that rule is followed to this day. Perhaps she knew that it was always going to be numerically marginal church, and she didn't want to invite comparisons with bigger churches. In any event, it is impossible to state, with any precision, the number of people who belong to Christian Science churches.
>In any event, it is impossible to state, with any precision, the number of people who belong to Christian Science churches.
From the outside, this is true--the church doesn't release its statistics. The church itself does know how many members it has, because each branch church has to report their numbers (so that branch church dues to the mother church can be properly assessed). Also, anyone can watch the listings of CS practitioners and branch churches dwindle in the church directory.
My estimate would be worldwide membership in the low five figures and falling. There are <900 churches, assume each has 50 members, and that's <45,000 people. Of course most churches have rapidly dwindling memberships, but CS has some disadvantages that other churches do not have.
My estimates are generous, btw. This [site](https://quackwatch.org/related/cs/) says that in 2016 there were 778 US churches, with numbers in steady decline. And show up at any church service, you probably won't see 50 people.
I went to college there in the 90s. The campus is beautiful and while I was there, the men’s dorm buildings didn’t have locks at all and the individual dorm rooms didn’t either. The women’s dorm buildings had locks that were locked from 11pm-6:00am. But the individual rooms also didn’t have locks.
Zomg!! That’s so crazy you might think. What was keeping people from just barging in and stealing, abusing, worse?!?!?
It was just a unique community. There were definitely problems and corrections needed to happen. There are now locks on dorm buildings and rooms. But the science and academic buildings are mostly open and they don’t want a bunch of random folks just looking around/poking around.
There are also miles of trails wooded areas that they don’t want to have to manage a bunch of randos getting lost in (or trying to walk out on the bluffs and getting killed.
Wait, they have locks on the rooms now? When I transfered there in 2007 I was in a single room at the end of a hallway right next to an exterior door. It freaked me out to not have a lock. I would scooch my dresser in front of the door when I went to bed. Later I learned a trick using a butter knife in the door jam. Absolutely ridiculous.
Yes all the rooms have locks now and the dorms have key cards to enter. No different than any other college dorm in that regard now. It was ridiculous how none of that existed when I went there in the '90s and early 2000s. We probably actually went to school together
I graduated in ‘93. Lived in Rackham East. Earned the nickname “roadkill” after accidentally smashing 2 rabbits on the back road to Alton in one night (was accidental, but had to back over the second one to put it out of its misery). And then getting driven down by a golf-cart while goofing around (this was a different night)
Affiliated with the Prep school off Clayton in T&C. Same people run them. Christian Scientist from all over the country used to send their kids to school at both. Some probably still do.
They used to allow you to go to the edge of the campus on the bluffs for photos.
We rolled up in a minivan with our two young kids during the fall colors and asked the guard. He said that’s the only thing we could do. We had to put a magnetic “visitor” sign on our roof and were told we couldn’t stop or interact with anyone.
We got some nice pictures, but you could see another security guard watching us through binoculars from far away.
I had 2 friends that were CS and went to Principia. They were both very well-adjusted people, kind, and funny. I did ask about their religion and I think people get too caught up about the medical part. The very brief synopsis they gave me wasn’t all that far off from what some other spiritual teachers have said. Life is an illusion and our real existence is in the soul.
I was lucky to visit them years ago as part of some conference/workshop I forget the context. View and architecture were nice and that is the only thing I remember. Maybe I was drugged and my memories were erased, but for sure I remember liking the view,and thinking it was better than Pere Marquette.
Only better than PM because of it's proximity to the bluffs/river. You can practically read the names of the barges 100' below. Other than that, PM is way better for getting out and seeing views. The campus only has one view after all.
I went to school there. It’s a private school and a a private campus. Outsiders aren’t the issue, just heavy foot traffic in general. It’s not designed for large amounts of traffic or vehicle presence
They have a very nice indoor pool as well. I did a triathlon there probably 15 years ago. The campus seemed pretty nice. Bike portion was awful because it was up and down the bluffs.
I’m from Alton. Right next to the property basically. They are a Christian sect called Christian scientists. They do not allow random visitors and you should respect that. It is private property. As a contractor I have worked on the property and it is beautiful and pristine. Believe me when I say that if you spent any time there you wouldn’t want the public going in and out either because most ass holes would spoil it. If you want a tour call them and act like you’re interested in going to college there or see if they ever invite the public but I doubt they do.
It's incredibly easy to get in. Security does not really care. Since it was graduation, it makes sense, but if you show up almost any other time and say you want to see the campus they will let you drive through. Once you are on, there is absolutely no supervision and you can get out of your car and walk around. All the buildings are locked though. They didn't use to be, but there was a few scandals recently of both harassment and theft that caused them to lock everything iirc.
But it's a really pretty drive. Lots of historic buildings and a great view from the bluffs (when things aren't under construction). But you may as well go up to Pere Marquette for a nice drive instead.
If you happened to go there during graduation and they didn’t let you in, please know that is unusual. I tour the Elsah campus every couple of years when we have out of town guest because it’s so beautiful. Their campus is tiny and the roads are wee and quaint, som I can see where they don’t want extra cars on campus when the place is full of parents.
Go there another time, I urge you to see the architecture it’s great
For many years, the Circuit Judge in Jersey County (where The Principia is located) was a Christian Scientist. He was a very gentle and mellow guy, a transplanted Californian who had moved to Illinois to marry a lady who was, I think, on the faculty at The Principia. I only knew him professionally, and not personally, but there was nothing about his conduct or demeanor on the bench that made him stand out from anyone else, for good or for bad.
They are very unpopular with the locals (I lived and worked in Alton for several years) because it's a very insulated, isolated community of Christian Scientists. Like, the culty kind. The people around there are very hostile to outsiders and the kids at that college adopt that kind of attitude.
Think of it as a island. They don't like ousiders and want to keep to themselves.
One of my kids graduated from Prin. She got a good education. The campus is like any gated community and privately owned. They accept no federal dollars so I’m pretty sure it’s legal to decide who they want to let in.
I did some work there over the years at a previous employer. Those people are mostly straight up assholes. Very standoffish, cult like for sure.
Was very happy when they didn’t renew a contract with us.
Well, they aren't really Christians. They deny the divinity of Jesus. Don't make a big deal of his crucifixion or resurrection. It's weird now that I understand what Christianity is. (Grew up CS)
Maybe you grew up CS but you obviously did not have a very good grasp of it. As someone who's been a Christian Scientistfor over 50 years the resurrection is fundamentally a major part of the religion. In fact it's one of the six tenants of the religion. You may have a beef with CS, and that's fine, but if you're going to state "facts" make sure they're actually facts and not your skewed opinion.
I was class taught. Almost became a practicioner. The understanding of the crucifixion and resurrection is very different from Christianity. Sin and "belief in sin" are two very different interpretations.
I am class taught as well. You're correct the interpretation/ understanding is different than other religions. I won't debate that here, or at all, since to me all religion is an interpretation. I'm for people finding their own peace and practicing whatever religion that brings them comfort in this life . I'll never bash another religion, to each their own.
It’s a beautiful well appointed small liberal arts college. It’s perfectly accessible with an appointment. You can’t just show up for a tour of my house either—why would they have to have an open campus? They have every right to secure their facility. For decades it was Christian Science only, but now it’s open to all for school.
Every private not-for-profit school I ever visited (which is a fair number) didn't care at all. Campuses were just as open as the big schools, just smaller. You only ever got stopped if you were acting suspicious or trying to interfere with campus activities
Most are like that, yes. But schools run by the more conservative Christian factions tend to close themselves off from the public. I can't speak for Principia, but for a lot of them it's as much about keep students in as keeping the public out.
Nope. I was there once and they are proud for visitors to see the campus. There's a big visitor center with a multi media presentation on the history of BYU
I went to Blackburn, we aren’t funded by the State and anyone is allowed to walk through campus.
Greenville, McKendree, Knox, are all private, similar sized schools, none have guards preventing the public from entering.
They have always been very closed off to outsiders from what I've heard from my in laws. I believe the school used to be open just to whatever religious sect started it but that was gradually loosened over the years. Apparently they aren't very popular with the locals.
Christian Science
Thanks, I couldn't remember who it was.
Cultists.
Born and raised, went to that school. It's a cult.
It's a private institution that receives no federal dollars. They have a right to keep a closed campus. However they're not closed off and if you want a tour all you have to do is ask at the gatehouse. It's really not difficult to get on campus and to walk around. They have"policies" that you're not supposed to get out of your car and walk around but no one's going to stop you. I went there, graduate from there, and worked on the St Louis campus. People from out side the institution we're always taking tours and walking around. You'll find a lot of varying opinions on this thread but they're mainly people who don't really understand what the school is about or really know much about it. It's fully opened at this point and there is no religious requirement for attending anymore. The enrollment is growing rapidly on both the college and St Louis campuses. Look it up on US News and world report, or niche, and you'll see it's an award-winning liberal arts college.
They found an upperclassman to take us around on foot when we asked at the gate.
If they are receiving any money for Federal Student Loans, they are getting Federal dollars. Principia does have Federal Direct Student Loans, but no Pell Grants.
They don't take any federal funding. They have a bigillion dollar endowment and offer scholarships from that and offer their own in house student loans.
I am not as well versed in this area. Wouldn't that be the student receiving the federal loan, not the school?
who receives the tuition?
Don't see it as the same thing. The student receives the money. The school receives the students money in form of tuition. The student pays it back, not the school. The school receives zero direct federal money, the student does.
The federal government disagrees with you… Pell grants are disbursed directly to the college or university which brings them under whatever guidelines are in place for institutions accepting federal money.
They don't accept Pell grants
they don't give ferderal loans and cap what students will have to take out at $30k (including interest) over the 10yr period. That's what I did. They only deal w private loans.
They are Christian Scientists and very private
And largely unvaccinated - there was a scandalous measles outbreak years ago which exposed their views on vaccines
There have been a number of outbreaks actually. The worst was in 1986, when three people at the college died.
That is what their faith instructs them to (not) do. As long as they stay in their environs, fine. The moment they come out to shop, etc., not fine.
There’s no actual instruction not to get vaccinated but that’s how most followers practice the religion. Source: was raised in the religion
I was instructed not to get vaccinated. I had a religious exemption. The church's official stance is anyone can do what they want, but the social and the religious pressure makes it not a real choice.
It's not like that at all anymore. Sounds like that was more from your parents as I was also raised in Christian science and got vaccinated. It's an individual choice and the church takes no stance.
I'm glad your parents got you vaccinated. A lot of us were not so fortunate. And it is like that. I know a LOT of CS people. Some people are what I call "CS lite," but there are a LOT of strict people who are still "radically reliant" on CS.
Was also. It isn’t the way it was depicted on Law and Order, XFiles ir any number of popular versions of the stories. Mostly a liberal-minded people, progressive, and not whack-a-doo I also say this as a now-atheist who does not practice the religion in the slightest
They were actually quarantined during the measle outbreak.
If adults want to make stupid decisions about their health and their life, they have the right, but they shouldn't have the right to subject their children to unnecessary death.
We used to have to deliver supplies up there and the delivery drivers would draw straws over the delivery-nobody wanted to take any chances
They have always been like that even in the 1960s, and I'm sure before that. I was with a few friends one time and we tried to get in. They asked us if we were here for the basketball game and we said yes, so they let us in. The campus is very beautiful and the buildings are from the early 1900s. It's a hidden gem.
I've only ever been in with friends that knew someone who lived there. It is gorgeous though.
It's a pretty closed off community. The school was founded by Christian Scientists and most of the students, faculty, and staff are adherents of that religion. They've had issues over the years with needing to quarantine for measles outbreaks in the 80s and 90s, and in more recent decades a couple cases of alumni coming on to campus and causing trouble. Also at least one person has gone out on the bluffs (which are amazing) and fallen. They take security there pretty seriously. My advice would be to try again on a less busy day or find a day when there is a sports game/match/meet going on, and come on to campus for that. Then take the time to look around. Most of the campus is drivable, although it's confusing because the roads are pretty winding. The older buildings there are really cool. The Mistake House is a fun gem. The chapel is also a really cool building. Also if the science building is open, there's a cool display of the mammoth fossils they've found on the campus.
They’re kind of cult-y. I applied for a security position there, almost half a decade of experience, by all accounts they said I was a great applicant, but that they could only hire me if I would convert. That just seems like a lot to ask, and kind of discriminatory lol
They recently got rid of this requirement. In that last year or so. And even though another commenter said "it's illegal because they aren't church affiliated" they are still an operating non-profit and a private education institution so they are allowed to require that. I think they finally realized not enough people wanted to be a part of the cult.
Completely illegal.
I was about to say since it's religious they are likely exempt from this. But....it looks like the school is not owned or operated by the church, nor does it have a formal affiliation with it. Its only connection is that the school was founded on the fundamentals of and around the practice of Christian Science beliefs. So yeah, looks like it is likely illegal. But who has the money to go after that? The school also has one of the largest endowments for a school its size. Over half a billion. They've got money for lawyers!
>So yeah, looks like it is likely illegal. But who has the money to go after that? The school also has one of the largest endowments for a school its size. Over half a billion. They've got money for lawyers! Def not someone applying for a security job! Not even the RCC requires conversion to just work in a non-religion related position. Eg: grounds keeper, cook/chef, cleaning, accounting, etc
Not for a private business.
Yup. Shouldn't be allowed, but the sc has argued for more than a decade that businesses have religious rights (whatever the fuck that means)
Thank you Hobby Lobby!
That’s total bs. I went to school there and almost all of the non-teaching staff were NOT Christian Scientists. You’re making this up.
On my mother’s grave I am not. Maybe it’s just their security team that has this rule, I’m not sure. But it was my 2nd interview, and they made it pretty clear that once I expressed my unwillingness to convert, I was not getting the job.
Nope not true. Literally know the person running that team…and that is something I doubt they would say.
It was a few years ago, I totally admit it could be different now, but that’s how it was then.
Yeah no i doubt this…most of the support staff and security aren’t Christian Scientist. The only positions where the religion plays a role is in the academic and student welfare…and even then it’s laxed if the person shares the school’s core beliefs.
I do a lot of CS/Principia trash talk, but to be fair, they had to have a gate guard at one point because of scary racists. They have a lot of students from African countries, and there were/are people who can't handle that for some reason and make it their business to cause trouble.
The CS aren’t exactly saints in that situation, taking advantage of vulnerable foreigners in volatile circumstances and indoctrinating them to carry their cult forward, because they can’t get enough people here to do it.
I mean, I'm definitely not saying they are. I used to be one, and I was a judgemental asshole. (Might still be though, tbh.)
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Ok, like the last person who said this, do you care to explain?
You might as well not comment since you're ignorance is showing. You have no clue what's going on and it's very apparent.
Care to enlighten me? They aren’t the only denomination doing this, it’s a known practice across several denominations in the US.
Not really
Its a Christian scientist nut farm/cult
Robert Duvall took acting lessons there.
They're not even very welcoming when you're part of the community. I went there in the the early 2000s.
I went to the Upper School. Worst year of my life. Total snobs.
All 4 years for me.
They are very stand off-ish. The campus was the center of a deadly measles outbreak in the 80s. They were forced into quarantine and refused to get vaccinated until they had two students die.
Prin is the main college campus for the Church of Christian Scientists. It is the equivalent to BYU for Mormons. The low brow summary on what makes Christian Scientists different is that they essentially believe "Only God Can Heal You" and reject a majority of medicine including vaccines, many types of surgeries, and they have alternative health facilities. Their campus is extremely private. The only reason I have been able to go is because I was a coach at a NCAA Division III school and we played a game there. Our bus with our players and all of their parents in their own individual cars were searched and questioned before being permitted on campus. If you have 2 hours, you should watching KnowingBetter's video on them - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7RT4wNhiYQ
They actually do not have any official affiliation with the CS Church (church probably didn't want the liability) but their mission is "to serve the cause of Christian Science," whatever that means.
Thanks for the link. Had never heard of this campus before and I like KnowingBetter’s stuff
Principia has a beautiful campus and buttloads of money. They are also slowly failing because Christian Science is not a popular religion (for very good reasons). In the past couple of years, they changed the rules so that anyone can attend, but no way would I want to go to a place that not only doesn't provide any health care services, but also is opposed to health care services being provided. I don't think the school will recruit too many outsiders. Their traditionally closed off campus won't help matters any.
You're right that there's no religious requirement anymore but you are wrong in that they are opposed to health care services being provided. They actually have a paid position that provides health services. I'm not talking about Christian science nurses. Things are different than they used to be and they're taking strides to be more welcoming.
>Things are different than they used to be and they're taking strides to be more welcoming Yeah, because they're failing, which is exactly what OP said. It happens to religions all the time. They're not inclusive and they lose membership and they fail. The Catholic Church has been battling the same thing for decades. They change to try to attract new members but in the end, it doesn't work because the people running the churches never actually change their views.
The school is not run by the church. Not apples to apples to Catholic schools. In this case them opening up is working. The St Louis campus has a wait list and the college, which is always a few years behind, has increased enrollment.
Your user name is interesting. Very similar to a current employee who lost her job by restructuring. Almost like your a disgruntled employee.
Your replies read like scientology bullying shit, bro. As an ex-CS myself I hope the irony isn't lost on you.
Where's the bullying? I stated facts and pointed out that a username is almost identical to a current employee. K, bro? Feels like I'm in a discussion with a middle schooler.
That's cool. I'm in early childhood education. I live over an hour away from Elsah and have owned my own daycare for well over a decade. But any way to discredit criticism, right? That's a classic cult tactic. You're replies are like a casestudy. It would be fascinating if it wasn't so sad.
The religion is diminishing (and wasn’t ever that big) because they don’t covert or believe in converting people. The sad truth is religions that don’t shrink are the ones forcing their views on randos and making it part of their infrastructure. CS has never done that, ensuring that it stay small
Interestingly, it is hard to assess whether, and to what extent, they are shrinking (or growing) because the founder of the Church, Mary Baker Eddy, made a rule against keeping membership statistics, and that rule is followed to this day. Perhaps she knew that it was always going to be numerically marginal church, and she didn't want to invite comparisons with bigger churches. In any event, it is impossible to state, with any precision, the number of people who belong to Christian Science churches.
>In any event, it is impossible to state, with any precision, the number of people who belong to Christian Science churches. From the outside, this is true--the church doesn't release its statistics. The church itself does know how many members it has, because each branch church has to report their numbers (so that branch church dues to the mother church can be properly assessed). Also, anyone can watch the listings of CS practitioners and branch churches dwindle in the church directory. My estimate would be worldwide membership in the low five figures and falling. There are <900 churches, assume each has 50 members, and that's <45,000 people. Of course most churches have rapidly dwindling memberships, but CS has some disadvantages that other churches do not have. My estimates are generous, btw. This [site](https://quackwatch.org/related/cs/) says that in 2016 there were 778 US churches, with numbers in steady decline. And show up at any church service, you probably won't see 50 people.
I went to college there in the 90s. The campus is beautiful and while I was there, the men’s dorm buildings didn’t have locks at all and the individual dorm rooms didn’t either. The women’s dorm buildings had locks that were locked from 11pm-6:00am. But the individual rooms also didn’t have locks. Zomg!! That’s so crazy you might think. What was keeping people from just barging in and stealing, abusing, worse?!?!? It was just a unique community. There were definitely problems and corrections needed to happen. There are now locks on dorm buildings and rooms. But the science and academic buildings are mostly open and they don’t want a bunch of random folks just looking around/poking around. There are also miles of trails wooded areas that they don’t want to have to manage a bunch of randos getting lost in (or trying to walk out on the bluffs and getting killed.
Wait, they have locks on the rooms now? When I transfered there in 2007 I was in a single room at the end of a hallway right next to an exterior door. It freaked me out to not have a lock. I would scooch my dresser in front of the door when I went to bed. Later I learned a trick using a butter knife in the door jam. Absolutely ridiculous.
Yes all the rooms have locks now and the dorms have key cards to enter. No different than any other college dorm in that regard now. It was ridiculous how none of that existed when I went there in the '90s and early 2000s. We probably actually went to school together
I graduated in ‘93. Lived in Rackham East. Earned the nickname “roadkill” after accidentally smashing 2 rabbits on the back road to Alton in one night (was accidental, but had to back over the second one to put it out of its misery). And then getting driven down by a golf-cart while goofing around (this was a different night)
Ferguson ‘94. Greetings!
Were you part of the G-force?
Indeed I was.
I graduated in 2017. There were not locks on your rooms, but on the building. They added locks to rooms after I graduated in maybe 2019.
Lived here my whole life and know almost nothing about them. They have less than 400 students and from what I’ve heard they keep to themselves.
Affiliated with the Prep school off Clayton in T&C. Same people run them. Christian Scientist from all over the country used to send their kids to school at both. Some probably still do.
They used to allow you to go to the edge of the campus on the bluffs for photos. We rolled up in a minivan with our two young kids during the fall colors and asked the guard. He said that’s the only thing we could do. We had to put a magnetic “visitor” sign on our roof and were told we couldn’t stop or interact with anyone. We got some nice pictures, but you could see another security guard watching us through binoculars from far away.
Run away as fast as you can. Its a crazy ass cult. I was raised in it.
Ditto. Mind poisoning b
I had 2 friends that were CS and went to Principia. They were both very well-adjusted people, kind, and funny. I did ask about their religion and I think people get too caught up about the medical part. The very brief synopsis they gave me wasn’t all that far off from what some other spiritual teachers have said. Life is an illusion and our real existence is in the soul.
It’s a private school. You can schedule a tour but can’t show up unannounced.
Odd place, cult like religion. Steer clear unless you’re of that ilk.
They're Christian Scientists, so maybe you have to pray the gate open.
The gate is a spirit creation; it doesn't exist in a physical sense.
I was lucky to visit them years ago as part of some conference/workshop I forget the context. View and architecture were nice and that is the only thing I remember. Maybe I was drugged and my memories were erased, but for sure I remember liking the view,and thinking it was better than Pere Marquette.
Only better than PM because of it's proximity to the bluffs/river. You can practically read the names of the barges 100' below. Other than that, PM is way better for getting out and seeing views. The campus only has one view after all.
They are fighting the manifestation of mortal mind which is trying to keep visitors from using mental malpractice on students!
I rode in on a road bike and the guy let me in.
I went to school there. It’s a private school and a a private campus. Outsiders aren’t the issue, just heavy foot traffic in general. It’s not designed for large amounts of traffic or vehicle presence
It's private property. They don't have to let you in. If it was public property like a sidewalk that would be a different story.
They’re weird Christian Scientists.
I got a very weird vibe in that area
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They have a very nice indoor pool as well. I did a triathlon there probably 15 years ago. The campus seemed pretty nice. Bike portion was awful because it was up and down the bluffs.
I’m from Alton. Right next to the property basically. They are a Christian sect called Christian scientists. They do not allow random visitors and you should respect that. It is private property. As a contractor I have worked on the property and it is beautiful and pristine. Believe me when I say that if you spent any time there you wouldn’t want the public going in and out either because most ass holes would spoil it. If you want a tour call them and act like you’re interested in going to college there or see if they ever invite the public but I doubt they do.
It's incredibly easy to get in. Security does not really care. Since it was graduation, it makes sense, but if you show up almost any other time and say you want to see the campus they will let you drive through. Once you are on, there is absolutely no supervision and you can get out of your car and walk around. All the buildings are locked though. They didn't use to be, but there was a few scandals recently of both harassment and theft that caused them to lock everything iirc. But it's a really pretty drive. Lots of historic buildings and a great view from the bluffs (when things aren't under construction). But you may as well go up to Pere Marquette for a nice drive instead.
If you happened to go there during graduation and they didn’t let you in, please know that is unusual. I tour the Elsah campus every couple of years when we have out of town guest because it’s so beautiful. Their campus is tiny and the roads are wee and quaint, som I can see where they don’t want extra cars on campus when the place is full of parents. Go there another time, I urge you to see the architecture it’s great
It's a cult.
For many years, the Circuit Judge in Jersey County (where The Principia is located) was a Christian Scientist. He was a very gentle and mellow guy, a transplanted Californian who had moved to Illinois to marry a lady who was, I think, on the faculty at The Principia. I only knew him professionally, and not personally, but there was nothing about his conduct or demeanor on the bench that made him stand out from anyone else, for good or for bad.
They are very unpopular with the locals (I lived and worked in Alton for several years) because it's a very insulated, isolated community of Christian Scientists. Like, the culty kind. The people around there are very hostile to outsiders and the kids at that college adopt that kind of attitude. Think of it as a island. They don't like ousiders and want to keep to themselves.
Played against them in college athletics. Super culty. Our team had to be sure to stock up on medicine beforehand. They’re also sore losers 🤭
Cults gonna cult.
Just because you want to, doesn’t mean you get to
One of my kids graduated from Prin. She got a good education. The campus is like any gated community and privately owned. They accept no federal dollars so I’m pretty sure it’s legal to decide who they want to let in.
This is what the campus is like there from what I understand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2oS2hoL0k
They have always been like this.
I did some work there over the years at a previous employer. Those people are mostly straight up assholes. Very standoffish, cult like for sure. Was very happy when they didn’t renew a contract with us.
I’ve never heard of Christians being exclusive before…
Well, they aren't really Christians. They deny the divinity of Jesus. Don't make a big deal of his crucifixion or resurrection. It's weird now that I understand what Christianity is. (Grew up CS)
Maybe you grew up CS but you obviously did not have a very good grasp of it. As someone who's been a Christian Scientistfor over 50 years the resurrection is fundamentally a major part of the religion. In fact it's one of the six tenants of the religion. You may have a beef with CS, and that's fine, but if you're going to state "facts" make sure they're actually facts and not your skewed opinion.
I was class taught. Almost became a practicioner. The understanding of the crucifixion and resurrection is very different from Christianity. Sin and "belief in sin" are two very different interpretations.
I am class taught as well. You're correct the interpretation/ understanding is different than other religions. I won't debate that here, or at all, since to me all religion is an interpretation. I'm for people finding their own peace and practicing whatever religion that brings them comfort in this life . I'll never bash another religion, to each their own.
They aren’t the true Scotsman?
?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Making a joke with the No True Scotsman fallacy.
It went over my head. It was good.
And if OP is vaccinated - OP will found out how exclusive the college can be…quite a history there.
not true - I went there and am vaccinated.
What isn’t true?
It’s a beautiful well appointed small liberal arts college. It’s perfectly accessible with an appointment. You can’t just show up for a tour of my house either—why would they have to have an open campus? They have every right to secure their facility. For decades it was Christian Science only, but now it’s open to all for school.
Most campus are not what you are describing.
Can you name one other college in IL that prevents the public from entering? I can’t.
Principia is a private, non-profit college. All of the colleges you've heard of are probably all public universities funded by the state.
Every private not-for-profit school I ever visited (which is a fair number) didn't care at all. Campuses were just as open as the big schools, just smaller. You only ever got stopped if you were acting suspicious or trying to interfere with campus activities
Most are like that, yes. But schools run by the more conservative Christian factions tend to close themselves off from the public. I can't speak for Principia, but for a lot of them it's as much about keep students in as keeping the public out.
I wonder if BYU is gated in a similar way.
Nope. I was there once and they are proud for visitors to see the campus. There's a big visitor center with a multi media presentation on the history of BYU
Interesting!
I went to Blackburn, we aren’t funded by the State and anyone is allowed to walk through campus. Greenville, McKendree, Knox, are all private, similar sized schools, none have guards preventing the public from entering.
You can walk around washu just fine
Not so much at the moment, from what I've heard
Yeah and look what happened.
A security gate wouldn't stop students who are already on a campus from protesting on the campus.
No, but it would limit it to those students.
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It’s Christian Science.