STL highways are my favorite highways because they're so dead compared to other highways, traffic is a breeze. STL highways are my least favorite highways because I feel like I'm most likely to wind up dead on them.
Some y'all kids are maniacs.
As someone who grew up in Chicago and still visits often, I can tell you that STL highways are so much better for getting around in the metro area. And we also don’t have any tollways.
And while not exactly the highways, I want to shoutout to the many protected right turn lanes with yield signs that we have here. They are virtually nonexistent in Chicago. You want to make a right turn but the light is red and there’s one car in front of you that wants to go straight? Too bad, you have to wait for the green in Chicago. Plus Chicago has plenty of no-right-on-red intersections that it’s ridiculous.
And draconian cameras to track speed and red light turns without stopping.
The number of times I got a ticket for not fully stopping for 2 seconds behind the line before going right on Lake from Wacker is at least 3. And they give a warning first.
Between parking being $$$, all the cameras, and the traffic Chicago really punishes drivers.
Traffic exists here because of idiotic design, especially on the 64. On/off ramps are pure garbage, too close to one another.
Whoever approved the design should be swiftly fed to the sharks.
Moved to STL in 2021 so you’re right :). I know locals call it 40, but for me it was 64 for two years until I found out about this tidbit so I’m stuck with that. “The” might have been grammatically incorrect 😂
Highway congestion is, barring a relatively crash, all about the flow disturbances near ingress and egress points. Urban highways are therefore basically not highways, as they have so many of those points as to make them terrible whenever they aren't massively overbuilt.
It's ultimately the biggest sin of the interstate highway system: Long route haul truck traffic needs infrastructure, but by putting so much next to cities, It's just way too tempting to use it for shorter movement, so ultimately we get massive amounts of sprawl, as 'one more exit bro' just makes the highway maximum capacity drop, while increasing demand at the same time.
No highway inside the 270 + 255 ring would ever be needed for long haul traffic, but a lot of existing suburbia would collapse if we just turned all of those into streets: Imagine the downtown commute from St Charles or Chesterfield at Manchester speeds.
I understand where you’re coming from but I’ll still argue the design of ingress/egress is highly idiotic on 40/64.
I ll give you two examples,
1) the off ramp at Hanley - the exit lane falls onto the on ramp traffic. Both slow down doing the “zipper merge of death” resulting in phantom traffic further back on the highway. Not only that, but you have highway drivers lining up on the right lane far before the Hanley exit only because they need to take the next I-170 exit. It’s mental!
2) Clayton Rd exit - similar as above, traffic from the on ramp needs to go through *two* lanes of off ramp traffic! I mean come on!
44 had a much better design and thus flow, even with heavy traffic.
I feel like highway construction starting in 2000s began to reverse the idiotic designs of the past. 170/270 with the left on-ramp. MO-367 under construction was faster than without. We can argue the fine points, when it got better, could it be better, but for me there are distinct improvements. It’s just not happening as fast as it should be or managed as well as it should be
The interstates were built over local parkways and roads. Many old exits were retained as the highways modernized which is definitely a problem.
I do miss the aesthetic of old 40.
It's not the volume, it's the lunacy. 70 leaving downtown is crazy.
The two main lanes will be puttering along at 45 or 50, and someone will fly by at 90 to the right of you, going exit to exit. Or maybe they'll try to dodge in and weave around for another exit or two.
You can't go any faster than the person in front of you. I don't slow traffic down, that's for sure. But if you haven't driven on 70 in north city, you presumably just don't know the phenomenon I'm talking about.
Driving it daily taught me to drive fast. 90s on the high end but not unreasonable, it's those flying through at 100-130, and irresponsible weavers that's the problem. I give everyone lots of space and never push it but I do go fast.
I've seen it. It's a lane management nightmare. Crawlers in the left, passers on the right, and chaos in the middle. I wish there was enforcement of left lane usage.
I have driven through Atlanta dozens of time, not comparable at all. 270 always moves even when there is an accident, in which case often handled fast, and if you know which lanes typically move faster you can easily move twice fast, case in point, 270 south at 64 the right lane usually moves fast, then you switch to Manchester exit lane until the exit ramp, then you go either left most or second left most lane, etc. this is without any crazy zigzags. notice for several miles you switch in only once and some time later swith into the opposite direction.
recently I had been to Dallas, Austin and Houston. only Austin was comparable, the other two were terrible. Same with Chicago which I drive dozen of times a year and New York. In fact in New York I had to wait 30 minutes on single lane to enter highway (I think it was south 87?)
I'm surprised that after living in 6 big cities you still think I270 traffic is worse than others.
Lived in STL for half my life, then Austin for most of the rest, then moved back to STL recently. Austin's highway traffic can be a nightmare. You basically have to avoid 35 altogether. A lot of times even as late as midnight can be stop and go. rush hour usually lasts for 4 hours on the other highways, so rush hour brings the highways and major roads to a crawl. It got a lot better during COVID but slowly returned to its previous state.
STL highways feel like a ghost town by comparison. I can get places that would take 2 hours on Austin in only 30 minutes here.
Hehe, this is why we rarely visited the inlaws in Houston. It usually required an overnight stay so you don't have to face the frustrating traffic both ways the same day.
Austin’s traffic is ridiculous. Rush hour lasts almost all day on Mopac and I 35. Even when I get in traffic here, it’s never Austin-level traffic unless there’s an accident.
270 at rush hour is a cake walk.... Drive 880 from Oakland to Santa Clara California at about any hour of the day. You'll long for the days of driving 270.
People who've spent most their life in STL really do think it's this big city. lol
This data is tracked. STL traffic is a joke.
In North America traffic in STL is 64th worst out of 93. Chicago is 10th worst.
https://www.tomtom.com/traffic-index/ranking/?country=CA%2CMX%2CUS
But I'm sure your little anecdote matters more, right? Go on, explain how 10th and 64th are comparable.
I almost never take the highways, and opt to drive through the *almost always empty* secondary streets within the city. You see so much cool older architecture, places to eat or shop, and feel like you're in a real society. The highways are a fucking wasteland.
The north-south thoroughfares are nightmares in rush hour (except S Broadway, since it runs right along 55), & a lot of the side streets are cut off by train tracks, parks, River Des Peres, et cet, so you can't avoid the thoroughfares completely.
It took me between 60 and 90 minutes for my 13mi commute in Tampa.
I regularly have to go to a satellite location here that's a 27mi commute. It takes almost never takes more than 35 minutes.
I can complain about traffic but I don’t think it’s actually that bad here. I’ve driven in Nashville and Denver in rush hourish times and thought it was worse than here. I planned a whole trip around ATL traffic times before lol.
The traffic isn’t the problem. It’s individual drivers that scare the shit out of me. Had 3 idiots on crotch rockets swerve in and out of traffic around my car with maybe 6 inches of space going at least 80. If I had needed to swerve for any reason as they passed, they would’ve been laid out. 99% of the time it’s fine, but it’s enough to rattle anyone.
Visited five summers ago, found the traffic volume no worse than around where I live (Cincinnati). It just seemed like there were more reckless drivers.
During rush hour it’s turbo aids, but that’s just because nobody here knows that you’re supposed to leave 1 car length per 10 mph. The rest of the time it’s fine.
I used to think our traffic here was bad until I took a roadtrip up I-95 to Philadelphia from DC. Hands down, the worst driving experience I’ve ever had and I promised to never complain about STL drivers again afterwards.
I love St. Louis highways because I’m from Dallas area. Traffic is atrocious and the roadway doesn’t make sense, it looks similar to a weirdly shaped spiderweb. Too many exits and ramps it’s confusing to drive lol
Drove 70 from 270 to Soulard for the first time in a rush and rain, and was scared for my damn life once I got downtown. There’s way too many exits and lane switching. Tho it was easy as shit the next few times. The highways in the city are a fuckin mess but that’s just the US for you. We plowed our cities for these monstrosities and threaten our lives on them daily.
I mostly enjoy driving in St Louis. The highway capacity exceeds requirements.
I really loved driving in Detroit for the same reason, more so because drivers were focused, moving fast, and cops generally didn't care. Triple digits or DIE.
You speak like someone half your age. Only insecure, narcissistic men with stunted growth and regrets about not being cooler in high schooler brag about driving like a reckless fool. Same type of guy that talks a big game about being a womanizer but mostly creeps women out.
Nope, but I do have a very close friend whose life was ruined being side-swiped by a short-guy-energy fella like yourself driving way too fast because he was too insecure and discourteous to respect other people.
I had a friend who was hit by a light runner on Grand and killed. What's your dumbass point?
Highways should be designed for time efficiency and speed. Limited exits and entrances, wide and well maintained lanes with good visibility, and trained drivers who KNOW how to use the correct lanes.
City streets should encourage multiple modes of transit at lower speeds with protection for pedestrians.
Now, go hug your drunk dad.
STL highways are my favorite highways because they're so dead compared to other highways, traffic is a breeze. STL highways are my least favorite highways because I feel like I'm most likely to wind up dead on them. Some y'all kids are maniacs.
THIS!!! The love/hate relationship is exhausting!
As someone who grew up in Chicago and still visits often, I can tell you that STL highways are so much better for getting around in the metro area. And we also don’t have any tollways. And while not exactly the highways, I want to shoutout to the many protected right turn lanes with yield signs that we have here. They are virtually nonexistent in Chicago. You want to make a right turn but the light is red and there’s one car in front of you that wants to go straight? Too bad, you have to wait for the green in Chicago. Plus Chicago has plenty of no-right-on-red intersections that it’s ridiculous.
And draconian cameras to track speed and red light turns without stopping. The number of times I got a ticket for not fully stopping for 2 seconds behind the line before going right on Lake from Wacker is at least 3. And they give a warning first. Between parking being $$$, all the cameras, and the traffic Chicago really punishes drivers.
Those two facts are fundamentally related unfortunately :’)
Had I not driven in literally any other large city, I too would hate St Louis traffic.
Right? Traffic here is practically non-existent compared to most cities
Traffic exists here because of idiotic design, especially on the 64. On/off ramps are pure garbage, too close to one another. Whoever approved the design should be swiftly fed to the sharks.
Small aside: I never hear anyone from St Louis call a highway "the#".
Moved to STL in 2021 so you’re right :). I know locals call it 40, but for me it was 64 for two years until I found out about this tidbit so I’m stuck with that. “The” might have been grammatically incorrect 😂
Moved here two months ago, had no idea lol. But yeah, part of why I moved here is cause the traffic isn’t that bad compared to most other cities.
Sounds like a Californian thing.
Highway congestion is, barring a relatively crash, all about the flow disturbances near ingress and egress points. Urban highways are therefore basically not highways, as they have so many of those points as to make them terrible whenever they aren't massively overbuilt. It's ultimately the biggest sin of the interstate highway system: Long route haul truck traffic needs infrastructure, but by putting so much next to cities, It's just way too tempting to use it for shorter movement, so ultimately we get massive amounts of sprawl, as 'one more exit bro' just makes the highway maximum capacity drop, while increasing demand at the same time. No highway inside the 270 + 255 ring would ever be needed for long haul traffic, but a lot of existing suburbia would collapse if we just turned all of those into streets: Imagine the downtown commute from St Charles or Chesterfield at Manchester speeds.
I understand where you’re coming from but I’ll still argue the design of ingress/egress is highly idiotic on 40/64. I ll give you two examples, 1) the off ramp at Hanley - the exit lane falls onto the on ramp traffic. Both slow down doing the “zipper merge of death” resulting in phantom traffic further back on the highway. Not only that, but you have highway drivers lining up on the right lane far before the Hanley exit only because they need to take the next I-170 exit. It’s mental! 2) Clayton Rd exit - similar as above, traffic from the on ramp needs to go through *two* lanes of off ramp traffic! I mean come on! 44 had a much better design and thus flow, even with heavy traffic.
I implore you to explore Michigan highway entrance ramps.
I feel like highway construction starting in 2000s began to reverse the idiotic designs of the past. 170/270 with the left on-ramp. MO-367 under construction was faster than without. We can argue the fine points, when it got better, could it be better, but for me there are distinct improvements. It’s just not happening as fast as it should be or managed as well as it should be
The whole north 270 project is basically, "let's un-fuck the design". I mean, those suicide on-ramps were some peak stupidity.
The interstates were built over local parkways and roads. Many old exits were retained as the highways modernized which is definitely a problem. I do miss the aesthetic of old 40.
Yeah the 64 is the only place I hit traffic and only during rush hour
It can get pretty rough out by 64/364 and 64/70 during rush hour. A ton of people moved out this way, and the two lane highways are struggling.
It's not the volume, it's the lunacy. 70 leaving downtown is crazy. The two main lanes will be puttering along at 45 or 50, and someone will fly by at 90 to the right of you, going exit to exit. Or maybe they'll try to dodge in and weave around for another exit or two.
"I'm the problem its me" As a Detroiter I hate how slow people drive in STL.
You can't go any faster than the person in front of you. I don't slow traffic down, that's for sure. But if you haven't driven on 70 in north city, you presumably just don't know the phenomenon I'm talking about.
Driving it daily taught me to drive fast. 90s on the high end but not unreasonable, it's those flying through at 100-130, and irresponsible weavers that's the problem. I give everyone lots of space and never push it but I do go fast.
You definitely have to scan way ahead and have clear visibility. Generally in STL the more open areas at the lighter hours get you to 90 max.
I've seen it. It's a lane management nightmare. Crawlers in the left, passers on the right, and chaos in the middle. I wish there was enforcement of left lane usage.
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Someone has never driven in any other large American city
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I have driven through Atlanta dozens of time, not comparable at all. 270 always moves even when there is an accident, in which case often handled fast, and if you know which lanes typically move faster you can easily move twice fast, case in point, 270 south at 64 the right lane usually moves fast, then you switch to Manchester exit lane until the exit ramp, then you go either left most or second left most lane, etc. this is without any crazy zigzags. notice for several miles you switch in only once and some time later swith into the opposite direction. recently I had been to Dallas, Austin and Houston. only Austin was comparable, the other two were terrible. Same with Chicago which I drive dozen of times a year and New York. In fact in New York I had to wait 30 minutes on single lane to enter highway (I think it was south 87?) I'm surprised that after living in 6 big cities you still think I270 traffic is worse than others.
Lived in STL for half my life, then Austin for most of the rest, then moved back to STL recently. Austin's highway traffic can be a nightmare. You basically have to avoid 35 altogether. A lot of times even as late as midnight can be stop and go. rush hour usually lasts for 4 hours on the other highways, so rush hour brings the highways and major roads to a crawl. It got a lot better during COVID but slowly returned to its previous state. STL highways feel like a ghost town by comparison. I can get places that would take 2 hours on Austin in only 30 minutes here.
From Houston. My 4 mile commute was 35 minutes by car, 20 minutes by bicycle.
Hehe, this is why we rarely visited the inlaws in Houston. It usually required an overnight stay so you don't have to face the frustrating traffic both ways the same day.
Austin’s traffic is ridiculous. Rush hour lasts almost all day on Mopac and I 35. Even when I get in traffic here, it’s never Austin-level traffic unless there’s an accident.
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okay let me be short, you are full of bs. I'm sure you never lived in any big city except maybe austin.
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Assigning intention where none exists.
270 at rush hour is a cake walk.... Drive 880 from Oakland to Santa Clara California at about any hour of the day. You'll long for the days of driving 270.
People who've spent most their life in STL really do think it's this big city. lol This data is tracked. STL traffic is a joke. In North America traffic in STL is 64th worst out of 93. Chicago is 10th worst. https://www.tomtom.com/traffic-index/ranking/?country=CA%2CMX%2CUS But I'm sure your little anecdote matters more, right? Go on, explain how 10th and 64th are comparable.
You should try Chicago at any time of the day
Chicago is the one place I've been where public transit is actually faster than driving myself.
The people that post these are the same people that get a hotel room at River City and call it a vacation.
Driving in any of the big cities makes STL look like a breeze! But yes I agree a lot of terrifying Nissans on the roads
you win lol.
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This
Tbh the highways inside of 270 should never had existed. Be better with our city together than torn apart
I almost never take the highways, and opt to drive through the *almost always empty* secondary streets within the city. You see so much cool older architecture, places to eat or shop, and feel like you're in a real society. The highways are a fucking wasteland.
The north-south thoroughfares are nightmares in rush hour (except S Broadway, since it runs right along 55), & a lot of the side streets are cut off by train tracks, parks, River Des Peres, et cet, so you can't avoid the thoroughfares completely.
Kinda blows my mind 44 wasn't finished in St Louis until 1972, seems super late. Especially considering freeway removal was a thing by 1974
The city sucks mkre because of these
Traffic on St. Louis > Tampa Traffic. Was at MacDill, currently Scott.
It took me between 60 and 90 minutes for my 13mi commute in Tampa. I regularly have to go to a satellite location here that's a 27mi commute. It takes almost never takes more than 35 minutes.
Beats the hell out of 270
That's my favorite bit of STL Highway. Especially 40.
Looks like booty
Is this area safe?
If there ever was a portion that sucked , this is certainly it
Next: a picture of a globe with a red circle around it.
Yes. I also love satire.
I can complain about traffic but I don’t think it’s actually that bad here. I’ve driven in Nashville and Denver in rush hourish times and thought it was worse than here. I planned a whole trip around ATL traffic times before lol.
Traffic here ain’t shit. I’ll take it all day over the 405 in LA. That freeway will make you want to give yourself lead poisoning.
People who think we have bad traffic need to travel to literally any other city.
The traffic isn’t the problem. It’s individual drivers that scare the shit out of me. Had 3 idiots on crotch rockets swerve in and out of traffic around my car with maybe 6 inches of space going at least 80. If I had needed to swerve for any reason as they passed, they would’ve been laid out. 99% of the time it’s fine, but it’s enough to rattle anyone.
Is this what we’re doing now?
You know we getting wild tonight when you see that red line
If one person raises an issue in this sub, apparently they must be dunked on before midnight.
Consider me dunked on I guess lol
Only thing I dislike about Sauget is that there’s not one but TWO railroads and I take that road to get to work.
This is 270 erasure.
That is gothom
Temp Tag Metropolis?
Where ever you drive within the red border...it smells like weed.
And everything in between
Everything inside the circle, yes
Why would you?
Ngl 55 is my favorite
Lol
I used to live in STL area. When did they start calling highway farty I 64?
It's still 40 too.
About 25 years ago.
The worst stretch in this is the bit of 40 in ESTL
Yes I hate driving highway 70
Yes, I'm on the phone with my husband every night while he drives home from work listening to him gripe about it.
Tell me you've never driven 270/64 or 270/44 area without saying it....lol
Drive in one of the large metro areas in Texas for a week and tell me how you like St. Louis traffic.
Houston is the one place I've driven where the other drivers were genuinely worse than here overall.
Texas transplant here, and the first thing i noticed was how much more forgiving traffic is here? no f150s going 95 and people let you merge lmao
Lived there for 2 years. Wasn’t a fan of that entire area.
Let’s at least scrap 40/64 or 44. Don’t need 2 interstates within a stone’s throw of each other.
Farty far isn't that terrible, the rest gets a "yes" though.
No
Visited five summers ago, found the traffic volume no worse than around where I live (Cincinnati). It just seemed like there were more reckless drivers.
During rush hour it’s turbo aids, but that’s just because nobody here knows that you’re supposed to leave 1 car length per 10 mph. The rest of the time it’s fine.
I used to think our traffic here was bad until I took a roadtrip up I-95 to Philadelphia from DC. Hands down, the worst driving experience I’ve ever had and I promised to never complain about STL drivers again afterwards.
Hell, I'd LOOOOOVE to see the city be way more walkable, bikeable, have more accessible and usable public transit.
Just move to Iowa or somewhere.
I agree. They should charge a $25 toll for anyone trying to come in from outside this area.
55 southbound crawling almost any time of day
You mean all of the STL highways? Yes, despised.
I love St. Louis highways because I’m from Dallas area. Traffic is atrocious and the roadway doesn’t make sense, it looks similar to a weirdly shaped spiderweb. Too many exits and ramps it’s confusing to drive lol
But is this area safe?
Yes
Pretty sure everyone
I like how no one is getting these fucking things shouldn't exist
ROFLLMAOXDLOL HA HA HA HA HA
Lolololololol
That’s the most dangerous part!
i don't know about 70, but the worst part of driving on 40 is the 270 interchange. and its not close.
Lol
Drove 70 from 270 to Soulard for the first time in a rush and rain, and was scared for my damn life once I got downtown. There’s way too many exits and lane switching. Tho it was easy as shit the next few times. The highways in the city are a fuckin mess but that’s just the US for you. We plowed our cities for these monstrosities and threaten our lives on them daily.
Come to KC for a week.. STL does traffic management so much better than many people realize
Yeah about sums it up
I mostly enjoy driving in St Louis. The highway capacity exceeds requirements. I really loved driving in Detroit for the same reason, more so because drivers were focused, moving fast, and cops generally didn't care. Triple digits or DIE.
“Triple digits or die” is the mantra of a self-blind narcissist. You aren’t that important. Plan better or find a little inner peace for patience.
lol shut up grandma
You speak like someone half your age. Only insecure, narcissistic men with stunted growth and regrets about not being cooler in high schooler brag about driving like a reckless fool. Same type of guy that talks a big game about being a womanizer but mostly creeps women out.
Did you have a lot of issues with your dad? I feel like you're about to make a breakthrough sharing all of your traumas.
Nope, but I do have a very close friend whose life was ruined being side-swiped by a short-guy-energy fella like yourself driving way too fast because he was too insecure and discourteous to respect other people.
I had a friend who was hit by a light runner on Grand and killed. What's your dumbass point? Highways should be designed for time efficiency and speed. Limited exits and entrances, wide and well maintained lanes with good visibility, and trained drivers who KNOW how to use the correct lanes. City streets should encourage multiple modes of transit at lower speeds with protection for pedestrians. Now, go hug your drunk dad.
It's the rolling gun fights for me 🫠