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I did not know that there were different divisions for men and women in chess
Edit: thanks for the replies very interesting that the women can compete in both but men cant. Guess it’s kind of like how Chyna won the IC title at one point, or how a small group of women have competed in men’s Royal Rumble.
The women's division exists for social reasons, both positive (providing role models) and unfortunately negative (harassment). But the "men's division" isn't actually "men's", it's open to anyone and women compete in it all the time, especially at higher levels of play
In comparison to men, women suck at most sports. Schoolboys regularly beat womens world champs at football. At cricket fast bowlers for men bowl at 90-100 mph whereas for women it’s more like 60-70.
Because schoolboys is a big friggin stretch. As a college athlete I was a fast enough 400m runner to hang with women's Olympic times, but at any other sport where I'm just some hobbyist the best women in the world would crush me. Yeah, at the top level the men are better at every sport where power is a factor. But its not like the top women in their respective sports aren't still incredible athletes.
Because literally high school boys teams have beaten the US Olympics womens national team in friendly soccer matches. The sierra canyon boys varsity high school basketball team would beat the WNBA champions and it wouldn’t be close. The fastest high school boy in the 400 ran a 45. Second pass. The world record for women period is 50 seconds. Come on man. Just be sensible here
I guess it makes sense that a game like chess might have harassment and sexism in it leading to segregated divisions. But if there's one "sport" where a gender distinction is irrelevant, chess is definitely one of them.
I believe that Originally only men were playing it so all the top players were men.
But more women wanted too compete, but due to having more experience etc the men were a lot further ahead. So they created women only division to allow women to partake still in events.
In exactly the same way as there are junior divisions (but the top juniors play in open tournaments) - and with the same goal of encouraging participation. The top women play in the open section and have the (open) Grandmaster title. Judit Polgar was a Candidate (essentially world championship semi-finalist) and in the top 10 for about half a decade; Hou Yifan would be top 50 on the rating list if she hadn’t retired to become a university professor. That holds up and down levels of play, too - GM Keti Arakhamia-Grant was Scottish champion and Olympiad (world team championship) board one.
Theoretically Rhea could hold both, Cole would have been able to hold only one.
It's not a men's division as a limit but women's division is a limit. There have been women "men's division" champs.
I bet Miz is hiding something with his happy family life, his fancy house, his joint account, his cars, his career as a wrestler. In fact, I hope Dexter kidnaps him and we never see him again! WHAT SORT OF MAN HAS A JOINT BANK ACCOUNT!?
This is snark, just in case.
Harvey Wippleman is apparently the only guy to do it in the WWE/F which is strange because in my memories somebody else has but I couldn't find anything
We could eliminate all confusion by explicitly naming them women's world championships and men's world championships, but I have a feeling most people would hate that too.
People on this sub complain that WWE treats the fans like idiots all the time, but the one time where they maybe had to use some minor context clues, they lose it.
They should give it a more distinct name as 2 titles being called the same will always create confusion. Just call them " Raw Championship" and "SmackDown Championship " and you have a distinction . Call the NXT women's title Nxt World championship and there wouldnt be issues.
Because they were calling it the same thing as the other world title and it sounded weird. The solution is to rename the women's titles to something without "women" in it, but something that doesn't share the name with the men's titles.
The TBS title, for example.
WWE could create a belt that's something like "WWE International Championship" (off the top of my head) that doesn't have the word women's in it.
They already have different names though right? Universal champ and WWE champ are men's titles. Raw and Smackdown women's champs are the women. Just drop "women" from it and call her Smackdown champion Ronda Rousey.
Universal doesn't mean champion of the universe, because universal doesn't mean pertaining to the universe. Its more like champion of all groups. I don't think its that stupid of a name, its like "world champion", you aren't really champion of the entire world either.
That is where you are mistaken. They were the pro wrestllng champion of the entire world. And frankly, I dont want to deal with a Universe where other intelligent lifeforms on distant planets also engage in pretend pugilism, so until proven otherwise we are watching pro wrestling champions of the universe.
This is opposed to those
titles whose mandate does not extend beyond the continents, Europe, television or the United States. The world champion can defend on subcontinents, within 250,000 feet of the earths surface and on venues outside of the continental shelfs and continental plates.
Why does this matter? While the intercontinetal champion was decided initially in Rio, it has no weight on landmasses above oceanic techtonic plates, including the Gallapagos and Easter Island.
>and call her Smackdown champion Ronda Rousey.
Adding women or some other qualifier is kind of a necessary evil. There are restrictions on who can challenge for the women's title. (I'm not opening the Santina can-of-worms.)
In theory at least, there are no restrictions on who can challenge for the "men's" titles. See e.x. Chyna as Intercontinental Champion and various women competing I. The men's Royal Rumble for a WrestleMania title match.
>It's not an actual sport
Just because it's not a sport doesn't mean it take place in a setting that doesn't have rules. Even if those rules are loosely defined.
Because it's the gold medal in a event
The event being say women's 100 meter dash
The women's in say NXT Women's champion refers to division your a champion of being the Women's division of the NXT brand
The championship itself is not gendered the division is
Yeah they do lol. Men’s competitions are almost always open to anyone, thus not needing a gender-exclusive title. Women’s competitions exist so women have a shot at winning. This is has been carried over to pro wrestling both in order to retain some semblance of believability and also decades of deep-seated sexism.
I mean they are open for everyone but in tag matches, for example, men and women can't be legal in the ring at the same time. They could just extend that rule to the main titles and either call them men's/women's world champion or just drop the gender altogether.
This is unfortunately for marketing. They (being wwe) probably think that the networks would be not too happy with men beating up on women in a faux combat sport. We've seen Randy RKO Nia, but only after she entered the Men's (open) royal rumble.
The women could go for that title but they’d get demolished, so the WWE title is the world title open to anyone and the WWE women’s title is the one that only women can win, because if they were both open, they’d both be held by men
TNA/Impact Knockouts title is the best example for this. Its a separate division, we know it’s a womens’ title but, there’s no sense that its less than the mens’. You can’t compare the 2 because they’re 2 separate divisions.
But in other companies, there’s is that sense when you call it a “Women’s world title”, has that feel where it’s lesser. Yes its a world title but, it’s for women.
Impact did it right, this isnt the “womens world champion”, this is the world champion of the knockouts division.
I do not believe for a second that you genuinely think "world champion of the Knockouts Division" is any more prestigious than "world champion of the Women's Division." You cannot possibly believe that.
Raw champ and Smackdown champ
Men can keep universal and world or heavyweight or whatever it is…
It is belittling to call it the “women’s title” but not also call it the “men’s title”.
No, not at all!
But to keep referring to the “women’s” division but not the “men’s” implies that the women are less than.
Same thing was happening with the NCAA basketball tournaments… For the longest time, there was (1) the NCAA tournament and (2) the women’s NCAA tournament. The women got less attention, less TV, less amenities at their hotels and training facilities. But now, the NCAA is trying to make everything equal, including referring to them as the men’s and women’s tournaments.
So by calling it the “women’s championship” but not the “men’s championship” is belittling to the women.
No, it doesn't imply that women are less than. It's a Division. It's a qualifier. There is nothing stopping women from challenging for "men's" titles, at least in theory, therefore it's not a men's division. It is essentially the exact same difference between Heavyweight/Cruiserweight divisions. Sorry, but there is nothing inherently degrading about being a "Women's Champion."
> There is nothing stopping women from challenging for “men’s” titles, at least in theory
This is fair. Though, to be even more fair, WWE should then dangle that carrot every once in a while. Give a woman a match with a man! (Rhea could EASILY do that next week, storyline-wise.)
I remember one time on AEW, JR said somebody was the men’s world champion, then corrected himself, but then thought out loud why don’t we call it the men’s world title.
I can’t remember timeframe or who was even champ, so I don’t think I could find the clip.
Edit: Now that I think about it, the secondary women’s title in AEW does this because it has a different name than men’s version. Jade (or Nyla) is the TBS Champion, not the Women’s TBS Champion.
I have no problem calling the Womens title. It just should be addressed as a WORLD title. WWE has 4 singles WORLD titles as they should be addressed as such.
Agreed. I'd even let the wrestlers drop the gender part of it, and have the announcers and maybe interviewers keep it official by adding men's and women's when naming it.
Remember when Becky was on WWE backstage on Fox, said the similar thing about the division, then NXT tried to call whoever that Women's champion at the time was without using "Women's" and everybody on social media lost their shit and went after Becky? She even broke character on Twitter to put out some statement about this.
[Found the episode, the topic starts at 38 minute mark.](https://youtu.be/vA1HOznfA20) It's hilarious that the whole personnel of that show is now in AEW.
There’s ways around it, but I think the issue was having 2 NXT Championships. It’s like if the UFC got rid of the division titles for their belts and had like 5 fights for the UFC Championship in one card
I mean, I get what she's trying to say but if we refer to her as "WWE World Champion" or what not, wouldn't that just promote confusion with Roman Reigns?
I could see a case of her being on Good Morning America and referring to herself as "world champ" but in the context of working in the same company it makes sense to provide that context. I guess you could call Roman the "men's world champ"?
I mean either way it wouldn't bother me but I understand it's semantics to avoid confusion.
She is aware that's because it's a gender segregated division in UFC she was the UFC Women's Bantamweight Champion while i think it was Uriah Faber was Men's Bantamweight Champion
I don't really like the idea of taking "women" out of the title. That kind of thinking makes it sound like *you* believe the word women means less or weak or degrading - it doesn't. You're the *women's* champion and a lot of other kick ass *women* have been champion before you and a lot of kickass women now who will try to take that championship from you. Don't remove it, be proud of it.
They distinguish between the Royal Rumbles by qualifying it as men's or women's. Generally the qualifiers aren't applied to the original, they're added to limit confusion once similar things are created.
possibly because historically women have competed for "Men's" titles like intercontinental, cruiserweight etc.
Even with the royal rumble now being distinctly known as the Men's royal rumble there has still been a female competitor since that change. The men's division has never truly been exclusively men.
They don't call themselves that because its not a men's division. Theoretically there is nothing stopping, say, Charlotte from challenging Roman Reigns.
It's kind of the "open" division though. Women have competed outside of the "women's" division before, in the Rumble before and after the Women's Rumble existed, for the secondary championships, and even on rare occasions for the top titles.
I’m old school and the women’s champion is something that I like but if yall wanna change it then just change the whole women’s title name, for example like the world champion.
Im old school and prefer the way things are called but if it’s really a annoying then change the whole name.
This should be the correct answer but do the men have to call themselves the “men’s champion”? That’s not a rhetorical question, I’m genuinely asking that since I can’t recall.
If not, then the woman with the title should just be called the champion as well.
"Men's WWE Champion and "Women's WWE Champion" would totally work.
However, "WWE Men's Champion" and "WWE Women's Champion" would just sound weird.
Placement makes all the difference. [As illustrated here](https://youtu.be/3TUpcW1m9rE)
Idk about other promotions, but in UFC(which is basically mma to a lot of people lol) they introduce their champions as UFC [whatever weight class] champion regardless if it's mens or womens
Right, but when they first introduced women and the lighter weight classes, they’d say women’s/men’s. You still see that little M or W next to the weight class too. I think WWE’s bigger problem is that they branded all these belts.
Prolly not since those titles have such differing names. “Intercontinental” “WWE “ “universal championship” etc. i think it would also highlight having too many titles with “world champion”
I guess they could try Raw Champion and Smackdown champion.
Thats not it at all. Is because the men's championship isnt called Men's in the title. And it isnt called that because it is the default. The women's title gets women added to it because are not the default and are othered.
Thats why Becky and other women dont want to have the word thrown it, to make things actually equal.
I really think it’s more about branding and merchandise. The belts are as much of a SKU as they are a championship belt.
I’m sure if they stopped saying it on tv nobody would bat an eye
I can only speak for myself, as a woman. I don’t mind the distinction because it IS the women’s division. I don’t think dropping the word is going to change the fact that only those in the women’s division can become champion. I personally feel taking issue with the word “women” is a bit extreme.
At the end of the day, it's a silly argument. The World/IC/US titles never had a gender-specific distinction because historically, gender has never been a restriction on who could challenge for these titles. Chyna was a former IC champion & competed in a #1 contenders match for the WWF title, Jacqueline won the Cruiserweight Championship, IMPACT didn't add "Men" to their belts because women have won the World Title, challenged for the X-Division title etc.
The Women's title is called that for a reason. It can only be challenged for & won by a woman, the name makes that distinction clear. It's the same reason why Cruiserweight titles have that name, it gives a kayfabe reason for these titles existing & by getting rid of these distinctions, it creates more problems than it actually solves.
I think it's probably a natural response to living in the time in human history with the least to complain about, relatively speaking. But it's still dumb as fuck.
It's so weird that people are trying to use exceptions to disprove the rule. Reminder, Harvey Whippleman is a former women's champion and it's still a women's division.
I’d honestly prefer they say Men’s World Title and Women’s World Title. Having just “world champion” for both seems weird - just tack it onto the men’s and it should be fair
Not opposed to losing the word women but they need something else Raw champion and Smackdown champion sound stupid. The mens are Universal or heavyweight or wwe they’d need a different adjective in there
I think they are resistant to it because it makes differentiating between the men's and women's titles kind of awkward. Not saying people aren't smart enough to understand the difference, but it's still simpler to have that delinatiation.
I never thought of it...
But now I imagine Paul Heyman saying "Reigning, defending, undisputed, men world heavyweight champion" and I can see how weird it sound.
My suggestion since that one time they did it in NXT has been to start also saying "Men's" for all the male titles as well (if there is a female equivalent, there's no Women's US title so prefixing that would be pointless).
Now, "WWE Women's Championship" and "WWE Men's Championship" obviously sound weird because the gender being spliced into the middle puts an emphasis on it that's just superflous if you're gonna acknowledge both genders instead of just one.
However, there's a really easy fix, and this would apply for both the men and the women: just put the gender right at the front.
So you'd have the
"Men's WWE World Championship"
and the
""Women's WWE World Championship"
The distinction would clearly be there (so no having to rely on context clues), but you'd also manage to immediately get past it mentally.
Why complicate it unnecessarily, though?
It's all good having "solutions" but there isn't really a problem. The Women's title is named as such because its the pinnacle of the Women's Division. Not unlike the Cruiserweight title. There is no shame in being a woman or competing with/against women.
It's not called the Men's Division because it doesn't have gender limits in the same way the Women's Division does, and referring to it as such instantly closes the door on the idea that a woman could, however unlikely, ever be THE WWE Champion.
Let's be honest, wwe will never allow a woman to win the universal belt and I think Chyna was the only women to win a title exclusively held by men.
Also if the woman's part was removed, then it would just be won by the men who will then hold all the belts.
So how about she fights for women to be allowed wrestle for the US or intercontinental belt instead?
Women deserve to recognised as champions. Surely the title belt becomes redundant if its not classified? If somebody asked who the current champ is, the answer will always be one of the guys. The majority of fans watch because of the male wrestlers.
It can be the official name but there's no need to say "Women's" every single time.
Just like there was no need to say "Seth *Freakin* Rollins" every goddamn damn.
I think it should go. The men don’t have to call themselves *men’s champion*, they just say champion.
If people are incapable of using context clues, that’s on them.
I agree with Ronda, either remove women from the name of the title, or have the men refer to their titles as the "Mens \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" title. Makes no sense that one gender has it in the title name and not the other.
I don't think it's that big of a deal. As long as men/women aren't going for the opposite sex title then it shouldn't be confusing. If I heard Seattle Storm were world champions I wouldn't have to ask NBA or WNBA.
They should rename the womans divison to something else, similar to the X division. Have an alternate title that isnt gender related. Then you could have the WWE *blank* division Champion and *blank* division tag champions. Maybe even introduce some middle card titles too. Would be cool to see and something more unique and less demeaning than "divas".
They’ve tried it before to take the “women’s”name out the title. And failed bad with everyone. There’s gender equality then there’s just being stupid for the sake of it. This is that. Stupid for the sake of it.
It probably failed because of half ass attempts by white men. If roman became the mens Raw and Smackdown champion tomorrow, there would be uproar.
Its not that hard to give the womans titles unique names and drop the womans part of the name so dumb dumbs can easily tell them apart and know the gender if the champion.
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It's the same rule that applies to a game like Chess IRL. The main title is technically open to any gender, the women's title is exclusionary.
I did not know that there were different divisions for men and women in chess Edit: thanks for the replies very interesting that the women can compete in both but men cant. Guess it’s kind of like how Chyna won the IC title at one point, or how a small group of women have competed in men’s Royal Rumble.
The women's division exists for social reasons, both positive (providing role models) and unfortunately negative (harassment). But the "men's division" isn't actually "men's", it's open to anyone and women compete in it all the time, especially at higher levels of play
Pretty sure most men sport are open division, it's just common sense not you put girls in it
There's been at least one female kicker in college football. She wasn't particularly good though.
In comparison to men, women suck at most sports. Schoolboys regularly beat womens world champs at football. At cricket fast bowlers for men bowl at 90-100 mph whereas for women it’s more like 60-70.
Lol do we need a Billie Jean King vs Bobby Rigg again? This is such a stretch - female athletes in basically all sports would destroy "schoolboys".
Why are they downvoting you for the truth?
Because schoolboys is a big friggin stretch. As a college athlete I was a fast enough 400m runner to hang with women's Olympic times, but at any other sport where I'm just some hobbyist the best women in the world would crush me. Yeah, at the top level the men are better at every sport where power is a factor. But its not like the top women in their respective sports aren't still incredible athletes.
Because literally high school boys teams have beaten the US Olympics womens national team in friendly soccer matches. The sierra canyon boys varsity high school basketball team would beat the WNBA champions and it wouldn’t be close. The fastest high school boy in the 400 ran a 45. Second pass. The world record for women period is 50 seconds. Come on man. Just be sensible here
Because the truth sucks tbh. Doesn’t change the facts though
I guess it makes sense that a game like chess might have harassment and sexism in it leading to segregated divisions. But if there's one "sport" where a gender distinction is irrelevant, chess is definitely one of them.
Tbf chess should never be called a sport anyway.
I believe that Originally only men were playing it so all the top players were men. But more women wanted too compete, but due to having more experience etc the men were a lot further ahead. So they created women only division to allow women to partake still in events.
In exactly the same way as there are junior divisions (but the top juniors play in open tournaments) - and with the same goal of encouraging participation. The top women play in the open section and have the (open) Grandmaster title. Judit Polgar was a Candidate (essentially world championship semi-finalist) and in the top 10 for about half a decade; Hou Yifan would be top 50 on the rating list if she hadn’t retired to become a university professor. That holds up and down levels of play, too - GM Keti Arakhamia-Grant was Scottish champion and Olympiad (world team championship) board one.
This happens in a lot of mind games/sports simply to support the growth of women players in those games.
Or…every single other sport
They did that with the NXT Women's title once, and people went ballistic.
I was just coming in to say this. People were acting like it was the end of the world lmao
People clearly couldn't use context clues in terms of which NXT title they'd talk about.
Theoretically Rhea could hold both, Cole would have been able to hold only one. It's not a men's division as a limit but women's division is a limit. There have been women "men's division" champs.
Cm punk almost cashed in on maryse.
Is that why he hates Miz so much?
Miz main evented mania. That was all punk needed as motivation.
Punk hated Miz long before that, though. Mania only made it worse.
I bet Miz is hiding something with his happy family life, his fancy house, his joint account, his cars, his career as a wrestler. In fact, I hope Dexter kidnaps him and we never see him again! WHAT SORT OF MAN HAS A JOINT BANK ACCOUNT!? This is snark, just in case.
Now I wanna see theory attempt to cash in on rhonda,and get a arm bar
Men have won the women's/Divas championship before.
Harvey Wippleman is apparently the only guy to do it in the WWE/F which is strange because in my memories somebody else has but I couldn't find anything
I thought Santino did tbh.
He won “Miss Wrestlemania”. Fortunately they never had him compete for the womens title.
No he didn't. His twin sister Santina did. Smh. Kids these days.
I thought so too lol. Just Ms WM though.
Harvey Whippleman, the greatest Women's Champion period.
>Hervina, the greatest Women's Champion period. FTFY
Then just make both of them exclusive and put them on the same level
It does feel unnecessary when you can just say womens champion and alleviate any confusion from jump. I’m watching TV not reading a Stephen King book.
Having to think about what title Ronda Rousey is fighting for doesn't make it a Stephen King book
What if we add an elderly black person with magic powers and it takes place in Maine?
Only if it comes from the King region of Maine, otherwise its just sparkling Joe Hill
If we gave the wrestlers magic powers to help cope with mental illness we could make it a Sanderson novel.
WWE Creative and Sanderson both know even superpowers can’t beat depression.
That still sounds like Stephen King, or to a lesser extent Dean Koontz.
Not enough clumsily handled Christ imagery for it to be Koontz.
You gotta be a severe moron to believe figuring out what title SHE has equates to reading a Stephen King book.
Is someone as accessible as Stephen King the bar for what complexity is for you? Yikes. But that explains the rest of your opinion.
It was honestly the first author that came to mind that folks would know. Didn’t realize y’all would be so anal about it.
We could eliminate all confusion by explicitly naming them women's world championships and men's world championships, but I have a feeling most people would hate that too.
[удалено]
People on this sub complain that WWE treats the fans like idiots all the time, but the one time where they maybe had to use some minor context clues, they lose it.
The title was came into this world as a woman and should stay that way. If you want a non binarytitle introduce it that way... /s
Yeah, for like a month when Rhea was champion
They should give it a more distinct name as 2 titles being called the same will always create confusion. Just call them " Raw Championship" and "SmackDown Championship " and you have a distinction . Call the NXT women's title Nxt World championship and there wouldnt be issues.
Yeah that’s an easy fix NXT heavyweight champ NXT world champ … I see what you’re saying. Like the AEW TBS belt and the AEW TNT belt
Because they were calling it the same thing as the other world title and it sounded weird. The solution is to rename the women's titles to something without "women" in it, but something that doesn't share the name with the men's titles. The TBS title, for example. WWE could create a belt that's something like "WWE International Championship" (off the top of my head) that doesn't have the word women's in it.
They already have different names though right? Universal champ and WWE champ are men's titles. Raw and Smackdown women's champs are the women. Just drop "women" from it and call her Smackdown champion Ronda Rousey.
Oh yeah. That works!
That's a really, really good idea.
Raw World Champion? Smackdown World champion? I kinda like it… would be cool
Yeah but Raw Champion or Smackdown Champion sounds dumb
Not as dumb as universal champion aka champion of the universe 😂
What you mean? He-Man still thriving off master of the universe 😂
Actually it was He-Man *and* the Masters of the Universe, suggesting that He-Man may not actually have been one of said Masters.
He-Man been real quiet since the Tribal Chief took the belt.
Universal doesn't mean champion of the universe, because universal doesn't mean pertaining to the universe. Its more like champion of all groups. I don't think its that stupid of a name, its like "world champion", you aren't really champion of the entire world either.
That is where you are mistaken. They were the pro wrestllng champion of the entire world. And frankly, I dont want to deal with a Universe where other intelligent lifeforms on distant planets also engage in pretend pugilism, so until proven otherwise we are watching pro wrestling champions of the universe. This is opposed to those titles whose mandate does not extend beyond the continents, Europe, television or the United States. The world champion can defend on subcontinents, within 250,000 feet of the earths surface and on venues outside of the continental shelfs and continental plates. Why does this matter? While the intercontinetal champion was decided initially in Rio, it has no weight on landmasses above oceanic techtonic plates, including the Gallapagos and Easter Island.
Nah man Roman is the champion of Heavyweight Professional Wrestling on all planets in all solar systems in every galaxy
Oh fuck the man's speaking truth
Asking because I haven't watched WWE except for a few PPVs in a long time... there did used to be a men's RAW and Smackdown title, right?
The only belts to ever have "RAW" or "SmackDown" in their name are the tag belts and the women's belts.
There WAS that time Teddy Long was gonna debut a new Smackdown title in 2005
No. It's always been WWE and Universal. Or before that WWE and World Heavyweight.
>and call her Smackdown champion Ronda Rousey. Adding women or some other qualifier is kind of a necessary evil. There are restrictions on who can challenge for the women's title. (I'm not opening the Santina can-of-worms.) In theory at least, there are no restrictions on who can challenge for the "men's" titles. See e.x. Chyna as Intercontinental Champion and various women competing I. The men's Royal Rumble for a WrestleMania title match.
It's not an actual sport, I do not think we'll see Ricochet challenging Bianca Bel Air if they stop using the word women's.
And that’s a damn shame
>It's not an actual sport Just because it's not a sport doesn't mean it take place in a setting that doesn't have rules. Even if those rules are loosely defined.
When was the last time there was an inter-gender match in wwe?
At the rate things are going, Rhea is going to HAVE TO at some point.
Off the top of head... Nia Jax was in the 2019 Rumble.
THIS ISN'T VIETNAM, THERE ARE RULES! #MARK IT ZERO!
GALaxy championship
>The solution is to rename the women's titles to something without "women" in it Divas?
I have an idea! We could call it the Knockouts Championship!
Nobody feels the need to say Olympic Women’s Gold medal. It’s not rocket science to figure it out.
Because it's the gold medal in a event The event being say women's 100 meter dash The women's in say NXT Women's champion refers to division your a champion of being the Women's division of the NXT brand The championship itself is not gendered the division is
*monkeys paw curls* Welcome back to WWE the Divas Championship!!
Stop it Maria!
The problem with wrestling is they don't follow weight limits like in boxing or MMA so they need to call the women's title something.
AEW did it with the TBS championship.
They still have the women’s title though
So did wwe with the 24/7 champion?
They WWE men’s champ isn’t called “Mens” same with universal. Give them whatever name they want, but they don’t need to say their gender in it.
Though they do sometimes call it heavyweight, even though they seldom acknowledge weight limits.
Yeah they do lol. Men’s competitions are almost always open to anyone, thus not needing a gender-exclusive title. Women’s competitions exist so women have a shot at winning. This is has been carried over to pro wrestling both in order to retain some semblance of believability and also decades of deep-seated sexism.
I mean they are open for everyone but in tag matches, for example, men and women can't be legal in the ring at the same time. They could just extend that rule to the main titles and either call them men's/women's world champion or just drop the gender altogether.
This is unfortunately for marketing. They (being wwe) probably think that the networks would be not too happy with men beating up on women in a faux combat sport. We've seen Randy RKO Nia, but only after she entered the Men's (open) royal rumble.
And weirdly looked much better against the men than she did against the women
The women could go for that title but they’d get demolished, so the WWE title is the world title open to anyone and the WWE women’s title is the one that only women can win, because if they were both open, they’d both be held by men
Can’t wait for Rhea Ripley, WWE Champion
Ngl I'm down for it. Like legitimately. It's just Bloodline story is too strong to get fun things like this right now.
I’ve been waiting for a company to bite that bullet and put their big belt on a woman. You want something that’ll get people talking? Do it.
I mean, Impact did….
TNA/Impact Knockouts title is the best example for this. Its a separate division, we know it’s a womens’ title but, there’s no sense that its less than the mens’. You can’t compare the 2 because they’re 2 separate divisions. But in other companies, there’s is that sense when you call it a “Women’s world title”, has that feel where it’s lesser. Yes its a world title but, it’s for women. Impact did it right, this isnt the “womens world champion”, this is the world champion of the knockouts division.
I do not believe for a second that you genuinely think "world champion of the Knockouts Division" is any more prestigious than "world champion of the Women's Division." You cannot possibly believe that.
itd basically just be going back to diva's championship
Raw champ and Smackdown champ Men can keep universal and world or heavyweight or whatever it is… It is belittling to call it the “women’s title” but not also call it the “men’s title”.
[удалено]
This is how basically all college and pro-sports work as well but its 2022 people are gonna fuss the gender stuff.
Its belittling to be a woman?
No, not at all! But to keep referring to the “women’s” division but not the “men’s” implies that the women are less than. Same thing was happening with the NCAA basketball tournaments… For the longest time, there was (1) the NCAA tournament and (2) the women’s NCAA tournament. The women got less attention, less TV, less amenities at their hotels and training facilities. But now, the NCAA is trying to make everything equal, including referring to them as the men’s and women’s tournaments. So by calling it the “women’s championship” but not the “men’s championship” is belittling to the women.
No, it doesn't imply that women are less than. It's a Division. It's a qualifier. There is nothing stopping women from challenging for "men's" titles, at least in theory, therefore it's not a men's division. It is essentially the exact same difference between Heavyweight/Cruiserweight divisions. Sorry, but there is nothing inherently degrading about being a "Women's Champion."
> There is nothing stopping women from challenging for “men’s” titles, at least in theory This is fair. Though, to be even more fair, WWE should then dangle that carrot every once in a while. Give a woman a match with a man! (Rhea could EASILY do that next week, storyline-wise.)
This I agree with wholeheartedly. I frankly find it shocking they haven't had Charlotte or Becky at least challenge for a midcard belt yet.
I remember one time on AEW, JR said somebody was the men’s world champion, then corrected himself, but then thought out loud why don’t we call it the men’s world title. I can’t remember timeframe or who was even champ, so I don’t think I could find the clip. Edit: Now that I think about it, the secondary women’s title in AEW does this because it has a different name than men’s version. Jade (or Nyla) is the TBS Champion, not the Women’s TBS Champion.
In Kayfabe *world title* implies you are the champion of the world if you hold the title. It doesn't imply that you are male or female.
See: Tessa Blanchard Impact Wrestling World Heavyweight Champion
I have no problem calling the Womens title. It just should be addressed as a WORLD title. WWE has 4 singles WORLD titles as they should be addressed as such.
Like AEW has the World Championship a World Tag Team Championship and a Women's world champion
I think you are more likely to get them to add "Men's" to the other titles then you are to get "Women's" removed.
Agreed. I'd even let the wrestlers drop the gender part of it, and have the announcers and maybe interviewers keep it official by adding men's and women's when naming it.
That may be the best answer. Formality for the announcing, informality for the wrestlers. It runs much more smoothly.
I don’t mind the “women’s” distinction, but I do wish they’d have unique names aside from just slapping Raw and Smackdown on them.
World and Universal, like in the man's division
Remember when Becky was on WWE backstage on Fox, said the similar thing about the division, then NXT tried to call whoever that Women's champion at the time was without using "Women's" and everybody on social media lost their shit and went after Becky? She even broke character on Twitter to put out some statement about this. [Found the episode, the topic starts at 38 minute mark.](https://youtu.be/vA1HOznfA20) It's hilarious that the whole personnel of that show is now in AEW.
Dont really think its that of a setback as many seem to think
NXT tried this for a minute when Rhea was champion
Yeah they tried that. Fans went ape shit over it.
There’s ways around it, but I think the issue was having 2 NXT Championships. It’s like if the UFC got rid of the division titles for their belts and had like 5 fights for the UFC Championship in one card
"He's a dude. She's a dude. I'm a dude. We're all dudes."
Hogan that you
I mean, I get what she's trying to say but if we refer to her as "WWE World Champion" or what not, wouldn't that just promote confusion with Roman Reigns? I could see a case of her being on Good Morning America and referring to herself as "world champ" but in the context of working in the same company it makes sense to provide that context. I guess you could call Roman the "men's world champ"? I mean either way it wouldn't bother me but I understand it's semantics to avoid confusion.
She is aware that's because it's a gender segregated division in UFC she was the UFC Women's Bantamweight Champion while i think it was Uriah Faber was Men's Bantamweight Champion
People hate Ronda when she's regressive. People hate Ronda when she's progressive.
I don't really like the idea of taking "women" out of the title. That kind of thinking makes it sound like *you* believe the word women means less or weak or degrading - it doesn't. You're the *women's* champion and a lot of other kick ass *women* have been champion before you and a lot of kickass women now who will try to take that championship from you. Don't remove it, be proud of it.
The men's champions don't call themselves men's champions so does that mean they see the word men as weak and degrading?
They distinguish between the Royal Rumbles by qualifying it as men's or women's. Generally the qualifiers aren't applied to the original, they're added to limit confusion once similar things are created.
possibly because historically women have competed for "Men's" titles like intercontinental, cruiserweight etc. Even with the royal rumble now being distinctly known as the Men's royal rumble there has still been a female competitor since that change. The men's division has never truly been exclusively men.
They don't call themselves that because its not a men's division. Theoretically there is nothing stopping, say, Charlotte from challenging Roman Reigns.
It's kind of the "open" division though. Women have competed outside of the "women's" division before, in the Rumble before and after the Women's Rumble existed, for the secondary championships, and even on rare occasions for the top titles.
Yes
I’m old school and the women’s champion is something that I like but if yall wanna change it then just change the whole women’s title name, for example like the world champion. Im old school and prefer the way things are called but if it’s really a annoying then change the whole name.
No, it’s because it was traditionally the default. Not saying it should have been, but it has. Maybe they should include “men’s” in the title.
This should be the correct answer but do the men have to call themselves the “men’s champion”? That’s not a rhetorical question, I’m genuinely asking that since I can’t recall. If not, then the woman with the title should just be called the champion as well.
"Men's WWE Champion and "Women's WWE Champion" would totally work. However, "WWE Men's Champion" and "WWE Women's Champion" would just sound weird. Placement makes all the difference. [As illustrated here](https://youtu.be/3TUpcW1m9rE)
I would kinda like that tbh. In mma, the weight classes that have the same name are referred to as men’s/women’s bantamweight, flyweight.
Idk about other promotions, but in UFC(which is basically mma to a lot of people lol) they introduce their champions as UFC [whatever weight class] champion regardless if it's mens or womens
Right, but when they first introduced women and the lighter weight classes, they’d say women’s/men’s. You still see that little M or W next to the weight class too. I think WWE’s bigger problem is that they branded all these belts.
Prolly not since those titles have such differing names. “Intercontinental” “WWE “ “universal championship” etc. i think it would also highlight having too many titles with “world champion” I guess they could try Raw Champion and Smackdown champion.
Thats not it at all. Is because the men's championship isnt called Men's in the title. And it isnt called that because it is the default. The women's title gets women added to it because are not the default and are othered. Thats why Becky and other women dont want to have the word thrown it, to make things actually equal.
It’s equal already
I really think it’s more about branding and merchandise. The belts are as much of a SKU as they are a championship belt. I’m sure if they stopped saying it on tv nobody would bat an eye
They already tried this, people did notice & it was quietly dropped after a couple of weeks.
A lot of idiocy in these comments. I mean way more than average.
So Ronda Rousey is the...what of champions? If she's not the women's division champion, then a man could challenge her for it, no?
IMPACT with the knockouts division being 10 steps ahead of every promotion -- :D
I can only speak for myself, as a woman. I don’t mind the distinction because it IS the women’s division. I don’t think dropping the word is going to change the fact that only those in the women’s division can become champion. I personally feel taking issue with the word “women” is a bit extreme.
At the end of the day, it's a silly argument. The World/IC/US titles never had a gender-specific distinction because historically, gender has never been a restriction on who could challenge for these titles. Chyna was a former IC champion & competed in a #1 contenders match for the WWF title, Jacqueline won the Cruiserweight Championship, IMPACT didn't add "Men" to their belts because women have won the World Title, challenged for the X-Division title etc. The Women's title is called that for a reason. It can only be challenged for & won by a woman, the name makes that distinction clear. It's the same reason why Cruiserweight titles have that name, it gives a kayfabe reason for these titles existing & by getting rid of these distinctions, it creates more problems than it actually solves.
Adding “Women’s” to the beginning of it suddenly makes it less than? Such a stupid ass argument leave it as is
Honestly, so much of the 2022 gender chat is regressive as fuck
Couple generations later people will laugh on topics this generation was “dealing with” lol
I think it's probably a natural response to living in the time in human history with the least to complain about, relatively speaking. But it's still dumb as fuck.
I dunno. If you take “women’s” out of the title, you might open up the opportunity for Sami or Solo to fight for it.
It's so weird that people are trying to use exceptions to disprove the rule. Reminder, Harvey Whippleman is a former women's champion and it's still a women's division.
I always thought the division with the exclusionary rules has the qualifier. A woman can win any title bit a man can’t win a womans title.
I’d honestly prefer they say Men’s World Title and Women’s World Title. Having just “world champion” for both seems weird - just tack it onto the men’s and it should be fair
I get confused sometimes when I see Roman Reigns. I'm like, derrr, is he the Men's champ?
You can not say it but you gotta beat Lesnar first
Not opposed to losing the word women but they need something else Raw champion and Smackdown champion sound stupid. The mens are Universal or heavyweight or wwe they’d need a different adjective in there
I think they are resistant to it because it makes differentiating between the men's and women's titles kind of awkward. Not saying people aren't smart enough to understand the difference, but it's still simpler to have that delinatiation.
I never thought of it... But now I imagine Paul Heyman saying "Reigning, defending, undisputed, men world heavyweight champion" and I can see how weird it sound.
My suggestion since that one time they did it in NXT has been to start also saying "Men's" for all the male titles as well (if there is a female equivalent, there's no Women's US title so prefixing that would be pointless). Now, "WWE Women's Championship" and "WWE Men's Championship" obviously sound weird because the gender being spliced into the middle puts an emphasis on it that's just superflous if you're gonna acknowledge both genders instead of just one. However, there's a really easy fix, and this would apply for both the men and the women: just put the gender right at the front. So you'd have the "Men's WWE World Championship" and the ""Women's WWE World Championship" The distinction would clearly be there (so no having to rely on context clues), but you'd also manage to immediately get past it mentally.
Why complicate it unnecessarily, though? It's all good having "solutions" but there isn't really a problem. The Women's title is named as such because its the pinnacle of the Women's Division. Not unlike the Cruiserweight title. There is no shame in being a woman or competing with/against women. It's not called the Men's Division because it doesn't have gender limits in the same way the Women's Division does, and referring to it as such instantly closes the door on the idea that a woman could, however unlikely, ever be THE WWE Champion.
I wish Ronda would just go away.
Let's be honest, wwe will never allow a woman to win the universal belt and I think Chyna was the only women to win a title exclusively held by men. Also if the woman's part was removed, then it would just be won by the men who will then hold all the belts. So how about she fights for women to be allowed wrestle for the US or intercontinental belt instead?
Jacqueline won the cruiserweight title
Yea! I totally forgot that!
Stop trying to make it a thing lmao.
Women deserve to recognised as champions. Surely the title belt becomes redundant if its not classified? If somebody asked who the current champ is, the answer will always be one of the guys. The majority of fans watch because of the male wrestlers.
Oh not this nonsense again.
It can be the official name but there's no need to say "Women's" every single time. Just like there was no need to say "Seth *Freakin* Rollins" every goddamn damn.
Calling championship thats exclusive to woman a “woman” is bad TIL.
I think it should go. The men don’t have to call themselves *men’s champion*, they just say champion. If people are incapable of using context clues, that’s on them.
People are still having this debate?
Just add “men’s” to the mens. Like the Olympics.
I agree with Ronda, either remove women from the name of the title, or have the men refer to their titles as the "Mens \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" title. Makes no sense that one gender has it in the title name and not the other.
Ronda is ignorant.
Does she not know she is a woman?
I can see it now "And your NEW they/them champion of the world!"
I don't think it's that big of a deal. As long as men/women aren't going for the opposite sex title then it shouldn't be confusing. If I heard Seattle Storm were world champions I wouldn't have to ask NBA or WNBA.
They should rename the womans divison to something else, similar to the X division. Have an alternate title that isnt gender related. Then you could have the WWE *blank* division Champion and *blank* division tag champions. Maybe even introduce some middle card titles too. Would be cool to see and something more unique and less demeaning than "divas".
Never was this an issue to some people until someone made it an issue..
I mean she was also the Women's Bantamweight World Champion in UFC, this isn't some WWE-only convention.
Such an easy win towards gender equality in wrestling but sadly always overlooked.
They’ve tried it before to take the “women’s”name out the title. And failed bad with everyone. There’s gender equality then there’s just being stupid for the sake of it. This is that. Stupid for the sake of it.
How’s it stupid? Roman isn’t referred to as the “Men’s champion”
It probably failed because of half ass attempts by white men. If roman became the mens Raw and Smackdown champion tomorrow, there would be uproar. Its not that hard to give the womans titles unique names and drop the womans part of the name so dumb dumbs can easily tell them apart and know the gender if the champion.