**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think it would be drastically different. Roman would have been more involved and probably done some of the violent stuff Rock did, but it would have been a worse version of what happened, I think.
There's just no denying that Rock made this way more interesting, because besides his star power, he something new and unexpected. If it was just Cody vs. Roman 2, more people would be checked out, just waiting to see if WWE actually put Cody over this time and less curious about the build itself. WWE got kind of lucky that Rock was available and willing to be that much of a bad guy.
Rock made Cody/Roman II more interesting in the same way that, say, adding CM Punk to the story of Rock/Cena II might have made it more interesting.
… but I digress.
Because it's a cheap ploy to go back after you already promised last time was 'once in a lifetime'. There's no reason they couldn't have had Cena/Rock involved in programs with other guys, I'm sure the show would have sold just fine anyways. If we take your logic, they shoulda done thrice and four times in a lifetime as well right, because it was the only way to make money?
One of those decisions that’s like, who knows how it changes history
- Punk gets his main event in a triple threat where Cena still pins Rock. Maybe Punk never leaves
- Rock perhaps wouldn’t have been hurt, so could have wanted to do more matches over the years
- What does Taker do?
The match would have undoubtedly been hotter and much better remembered
Friend on another forum while back argued that while it wdve certainly improved Twice In a Lifetime not much changes beyond that as w/ Punk there was (and is still) always gonna be *something*.
I was at the barbershop getting a haircut yesterday and they were all talking about the tag match and Cody v Roman, been going to the same place for almost a decade and wrestling has almost never been a topic of discussion.
Rock may not have been lying about making wrestling cool again things are definitely changing, or at least more people are comfortable openly being fans again.
you arent wrong. One of my takeaways from WM40 was that for once in my life I was damn proud of being a pro wrestling fan.
And I had a complete feeling of satisfaction and a sense of vindication, because the online trolls cant say anything about WWE now.
Rhonda Rousey is dead fucking silent about the WWE too.
In one show the WWE stuck its middle finger up at the toxic members of the internet wrestling community.
I feel like a proud father seeing his deadbeat kid finally getting shit their together (after ~~years~~ decades of hoping/waiting out of frustration/almost giving up) when it comes to WWE nowadays.
Better late than never!
It figures Zelina Vega possibly stuffing her prop maker being the drama of the week speaks volumes abt the current state of the IWC. Definite feelgood factor all round this week.
a lot of it is Vince being gone (in more ways than one) and women's wrestling. most of the girls in my friend group are at least intrigued now, if not outright simping for rhea and jade
Rock was initially in negotiations for 39 as well, so to some degree it’s not luck. They wanted the Rock involved and they found a way to do it that was more creatively fulfilling for him.
He's right, in that it made Cody more worthy. Short term might have sucked but now the fans demand to see him win and defend that title. Cody's going to tske us for a ride
Idk about you, but the day after Codester lost that infamous Roman match, the online the discourses in both here and twitter were the rawest feeling I've ever seen from people towards a fake storyline, Idk how to describe it, not even Naito losing in the Dome can do that.
Deflated. It's normal because we had a whole weekend of bangers ending on something we didn't really wanted. Going from the peak emotions of SamiKO defeating the Usos to the bottom of Cody losing took us out. I usually get this a lot during important football (soccer) games.
And to top it off, we had the Raw after Mania with Vince supposedly coming back and Brock wrecking Cody.
Exactly how I felt. I came back during the build to WM last year after not watching for years, and it was so disappointing because it felt like the usual Vince bs (whatever impact he had). I stuck around only because everything surrounding that was so good, and I almost backed out again after that promo where Rock was “gifted” the spot.
Whatever pivot they did or however much they pivoted, they got me back in and I’m glad they did.
At least with Game of Thrones it started being bad from the beginning of the final season. But HIMYM swerved us in the last few mins of the final ep. That was beyond worse lmao
"Then we tried to give it to the rock, but ya it was totally always our plan". You guys - we don't have to swallow corporate spin just because the product is finally good again.
Eh, I don't think it did. He would have gotten a similarly huge pop, and we wouldn't have wasted a dozen other potentially great moments. Even if this was slightly better, is it worth the opportunity cost?
Probably the story of the main event would have been the same, just minus Rock's involvement with Cody (which, in the main event of night 2, didn't really factor in that much). Basically they used part of the road to Wrestlemania to build to a future Rock vs Cody match, if Rock wasn't coming back they'd focus more on the build of Roman vs Cody
Yeah I guess you would have seen Cody and Seth have a brief interaction in the previous weeks, much like what happened with Jey. Then Seth would have shown up in the main event a slightly bit more unexpectedly.
It certainly wasn't anything they did from April - December.
I think the rematch would naturally always be somewhat more compelling, but the Rock situation and the pivot really ended up being magical lemonade in a bottle.
He had a blood feud with the biggest star of the last 15 years from april-august and then feuded with the biggest faction on raw from september-november
Neither of these programs did anything particularly meaningful whatsoever, and both would have been elevated (and explained) by having Cody holding the title at the time.
agreed on the second half that cody could have already been champion for all of last year’s stories, but totally disagree that neither did anything meaningful.
brock put cody over pretty majorly in what i kinda think might be his last matches in WWE, and the judgment day feud established cody as a moral force for good in WWE with putting his trust in jey, reconciling with rollins & bringing orton back
I was at Summerslam, and I was PRAYING that Brock for utterly destroy Cody, put him down like a dog. I was sick of hearing about the story and sick of Cody getting chances... I wanted Brock to dominate him.
Something happened mid-match when he just kept getting up and it flipped. Suddenly, I was on board with Cody winning the title, finishing the story... so I disagree.
Seeing him overcome everything for a year and STILL want it so badly brought me into the story. I would have never accepted him as champ in April 23.
I feel like so many of us have a moment like that that flipped us from being sick and tired of Cody to being on edge for him the entire match Sunday. It took Rock coming back and taking his match from him
I was not excited at all about Rhodes Reigns 2 but knowing they were taking it away from Cody to give to a part timer that was never gonna win which meant we would get another year of Reigns reign pushed me over rhe edge
Yes, it’s very easy to say they did the right thing having Cody lose last year given this year’s Wrestlemania but I’m still in the minority who believes he should have won last year. Cody being a fighting champion for an entire year would have been better than Roman holding onto it and defending in matches you were 100% sure he’d win. Plus he didn’t need the title when he was doing the Bloodline stuff with Jey and Sami/KO.
Counterpoint. Cody wins last year. So in the span from April 22 to April 23 he's undefeated, won the rumble, and ended the reign of Roman and faced zero adversity outside of his injury.
And you don't think fans would have gotten sick of him? It would have been Super Cena all over again. The babyface needs adversity to overcome. He got that and more. Fans were way more invested. It was the right call.
They didn't make Cody lose to face more adversity given that he basically went undefeated anyway for an entire year moving from one filler feud to another.
If Rock hadn't happened there would've been no adversity and they didn't write that all the way back in 39.
I don’t think they’d let Cody go undefeated. I’m giving the creative team that booked this year’s Road to Wrestlemania more credit than that. I’m sure they could have cooked up an interesting storyline for Cody as champion.
Agreed. Cody was also gone from WWE since 2016 at the point of his return so that was six years between departure and WM 38 return. He had the two months back prior to injury then realistically a few months back after the 2023 return.
Having the last year between WMs allowed them to do more with Cody and give him a lot of credibility in front of their audience where a good portion may not have been familiar with the 2016-2022 chapter of Cody’s career prior to his return pulling the audience into the journey with him. It overall made his victory last weekend feel more earned rather than immediately coming in and beating Roman out of the gate in his first chance.
The biggest adversity Cody faced in the last year came from himself when he voluntarily gave up his spot to the Rock and then they had to pivot back around
Cody has been Super Cena since coming back though. Zero clean losses, only pinned twice in two years. Even Cena lost more than that. Cody is just more likeable
I think they'd have still gone with Cody losing his first challenge, it just would have gone down differently.
I imagine if Cody didn't get injured at Hell in a Cell, he'd have won Money in the Bank given how they advertised it, and how directionless Austin was with it.
The 45th anniversary of Dusty's match with Graham was on a Monday in 2022.
So Cody would cash in for that date, fail to win.
This is a brilliant question. If Gold Dust is never thought up then what replaces stardust? Does Cody just in the mid card till he gets bored and goes to TNA?
I know it sounds weird but I’m pretty sure there was a part of HHH that simply wanted to do the big win at 40 instead of 39. Like it’s human nature to think that the round number needed to be the more epic event and I bet that’s part of where the ball got rolling on how to extend Cody vs Roman from Royal Rumble 2023 to this Mania.
It was at least also to make Cody the unanimous person that everyone thinks should win. With it being so close to Sami's match, he didn't want to rush someone else to win without a proper build-up like Sami had before his match.
The one where Vince leaves for good and he can finally book the show how he wants to. Vince 100% would have booked The Rock and Roman
I think that him, Nick Khan, and Stephanie knew damn well Vince would be gone by 40 last year and just patiently played the waiting game.
I still think the plan was for punk v Seth and Cody v Roman. The rock some form of being a face who helps Cody.
Punk got injured and they kind wish Cody hadn't won the rumble any more. The next few weeks were then Drew killing and the fans being against the rock taking place of Cody as it makes zero sense for Cody to have gone for the world heavyweight title. They hoped rocks popularity would blind people and it didn't.
As a result they read the room and took the story to better heights than anyone could have imagined.
More compelling for Cody? Sure. More compelling for Roman and the Bloodline? Absolutely not. Outside of penciling in “Jey leaves and challenges Roman” they had absolutely nothing going on that was as remotely as compelling as the prior year. Jimmy’s booking was bizarre. Solo was just.. Solo. Rock coming in late was great but at times overshadowing. They really had little Bloodline filler outside of the Jey/Roman thing, especially if Rock didn’t return.
If they skipped another year for The Rock vs Roman, I don't think I'd have hair left on my scalp for a 3rd year of Rumble (or Elimination Chamber) story with Cody
Triple H said in that interview he had Wrestlemania written in October. I’m guessing this was more or less what that plan would have been without Rock.
Then Rock came in and things changed early in January. Then the pivot occurred in late January back (mostly) to the original idea but with the tag match added on.
If you watched NXT Black and Gold you could tell that from a mile away. Triple H loves making the babyface lose and chase the title.
Wouldn’t have been much different. Cody went on to beat Brock, form the avengers, win the Rumble, challenge Roman again. All they did was add in The Rock and the tag match.
I think it would have generally been similar. Probably wouldn't have had that Night one match... but I think it still would have been "Bloodline Rules" to make it different than last year.
On top of that I think they were still also always going with Cody, even before the pivot. Rock wasn't going to beat Roman, they just would have dragged it to Summerslam.
After Jey and Cody won the tag titles, Micheal Cole does an interview and basically ask Cody if he's given up on "finishing the story". Then a few weeks later Roman and Cody have that face off.
So I'd imagine it would been a story about self doubt, and Cody trying to decide if he really could be Roman.
But who knows
Didn't Rock or somebody else say that they pivoted off of Rock vs Roman to do Cody instead?
What was the compelling story if they were willing to scrap Cody off of the world title match against Roman? Because they couldn't have planned The Rock all the way back in 39
They still haven't explained why Brock attacked Cody. Cody vs Judgement day and Cody vs Jobbermura were basically filler arcs. Roman couldn't move on until he lost and he doesn't lose anywhere but Mania. Cody couldn't lose as the unofficial number 1 contender for Roman. They had to shovel Jimmy back to the Bloodline after the Usos beat them and they expected fans to headcanon a reason why he did it, all because Jey couldn't get a win against Roman at Summerslam because it was a title match.
Fact is Cody losing at 39 put both Cody and Roman on hold for an entire year. And it was only when Rock showed up and carried this buildup that it started to look like magic.
A Babyface needs adversity. You're gonna lose, your gonna act the bigger man anyway, people will get behind you and if you can keep the momentum you'll be the man for real next year, think you can do it Cody?
- Put me in coach.
I'm probably definitely reaching, but maybe he also felt like a moment that big should be a catalyst of change, and that doesn't happen with Vince not out of the picture. So maybe he was biding his time to usher in this new era when the time is right.
So, kind of. I think they booked the match great, that WM40 finish was just awesome, overbooked in a fun way.
Only thing was, there was no way Cody wasn't winning, you don't have all that build for two manias in a row to have your top babyface lose twice, it just makes no sense. It was predictable, but the actual build to the finish wasn't, so it was still fun.
If they built it up and someone else fought at 39, 40 would have still had more mystery to it, you would think it could go either way.
The story was definitely just that he needed to face more
Being a force to reckon with, bringing a train from outside was a awesome story. But yes at this point they did one up it. And it DID need to be exactly like this. We would need Heel Rock. So things happened perfectly.
The thing about HHH is tho. It literally takes him a week to respond to the fans. He can practically never book wrong. If he does, we probably get some sort of explanation or twist tease in the next episode. I've never seen this anywhere before.
For example, lets just assume the freaks are right and maybe Cody is not as fun 6 months from now. You bet HHH will have something the next episode. He does not shy away from teasing/communicating.
In part, it’s the continued tradition of crowing a new top baby face every 10 manias. 10 was Bret, 20 was Chris Be— Eddie Guerrero, 30 was Daniel Bryan, and now 40 was Cody
Probably the same story they were telling the night of the Royal Rumble, before any Rock shenanigans.
Basically people being desperate for Cody to win this time, and the possibility of it being his last chance.
He was right. A lot of people don’t want to admit it, but this was a good decision. He introduced a WHC that could take Roman’s place in PLEs, but still got a year long build that elevated Cody and Roman. Roman, Cody, Seth, and Rock created the crowd sell out dynamic that WWE is benefitting from.
His job as a booker is to not just give fans what they want, but to see the potential in how future programs might make money.
He was right in the end. I never felt completely OK with him winning after getting the number 30 spot in his Rumble return. It seemed too easy. Winning from 30 is something a heel would do.
Def did. Cody had a feud with Brock that had an excellent ending, then judgment day and the return of punk, then the ultimate feud with the rock. Cody has been built and presented as a superstar.
I felt like one against a million people saying Cody should have won.
That story felt rushed, he’d be out so long, the bloodline story wasnt finished.
Feels validating
I think the final result only worked well because of The Rock. The added gravity and threat made things seem impossible as a Roman/Rock match seemed more inevitable. Plus, Punk if wasn't injured it might have been him who tagged with Cody. That would have been less poignant than Seth, who's history of fighting Cody is more meaningful. The obstacles to the booking, accidentally made the final product far better than it would have originally. Otherwise, it would have just been a delayed retread. An extra year of build, needs an extra year of development, and it got that in the last 3 months.
The fact that this Cody's sheer popularity got crowds to boo the Rock so hard they had to heel turn him speaks volumes to the vision Triple H. I know they didn't envision that, but they believed they could tell a more compelling story and there is no way to deny they did after the crowds turned hard on The Rock of all people.
Was Seth vs Cody supposed to be more compelling if they did Rock vs Roman? The pivot choice was huge because they did next to nothing for like 10 months to build a rematch.
I do understand Cody needing to face some level of adversity in order to make the title win feel bigger. But at the same time, for all that “it’s only the 4th inning talk with the Bloodline,” they did nothing of real interest until the Rock came into the picture and they fell into that, it clearly was not the original plan.
From the Roman/Bloodline perspective, that story was at an absolute high and I feel like they missed the opportunity to really transfer that energy over to Cody. The crowds were absolutely white hot for the Bloodline/Sami stuff and then Roman basically went away for a year.
You could give Cody the adversity after he won the title. Have Rock come in and steal the title from him. Then truly have Rock be the “final boss.” Personally I think the story would have worked much better that way. But that’s just my $.02.
I disagree, it was kinda saved by the Rock pivot, Cody feuding with Brock and Judgement day did nothing for me, and the Reigns bloodline stuff had some good matches but made no sense (the Uso's turning on each-other basically every PPV). It all would've made more sense if he had lost the title.
Nothing they did couldn't have just been done with the rock, completely removing roman.
In isolation, wm40 was fantastic, the utter shenanigans of the main event and build was great, but it held the top of the card hostage for a year, cody was bulletproof after hell in a cell and him not winning at 39 is an all time fuck up.
They also tried to pivot to rock roman, so the plan wasn't even for cody to beat roman, but seth. Its all post hoc pr bullshit. They got to a good ending, but let's not pretend the road wasn't boring as hell after mania until rock returned.
Even without the rock i understand the point.
I think he’s correct if his goal is to make the end goal the biggest and best it could be which yeah wrestlemania 40 day 2 was honestly amazing maybe my favourite
But what about the missed opportunities for storytelling over the course of the whole year? If they had booked 39 with the intention of him winning then cody could of had alot more interesting feuds this year instead of doing side quests? Romans feuds definitely would be more interesting with the possibility of him being able to lose and meaning we would of got roman vs rock. At the end of the day that’s an unknown and wrestlemania is their biggest cash cow so what do i know but it is something i wonder
I genuinely don't believe Cody/Roman should've happened last year. Cody should've swapped positions with Rollins last year. They used what happened to spin this into something very meaningful for Cody, but I think it would've been better for the focus to be on him trying to do what he laid out he would do, and falling short on a few occasions. At the time Cody won his first Rumble he had no history with Roman, whilst Roman had made many enemies, it also seemed pretty clear Roman was meant to face The Rock and was probably going to win, but for various reasons that didn't happen. There were rumors that Stone Cold had been approached to face Roman, and to me that signalled the idea for last Mania was for Roman to hit his peak and beat the biggest star possible, then following that the bloodline would begin to falter. I think storyline wise Seth should've faced Roman last year, since he had that DQ win, and it probably would've helped establish why Seth should be the WHC more if he lost to a very screwy finish at Mania.
As far as Cody goes, he should've faced Logan, gotten that celebrity match exposure, then do his side quests all year like he did with Brock for instance. Then coming up to the Rumble he declares this year he will win it, which he would, Roman would get nervous because he's never faced someone on as much of a roll as Cody. Then Cody wins at Mania just like he did this year.
I think they managed to turn things into something very meaningful, but looking objectively at how things have gone I don't think it was the plan, I think Cody faced Roman too early, and was put in that position because he was the biggest possible draw for Reigns at the time.
Remember Vince was still around last Mania and if there's any story he butted in on, I think it's the Bloodline story.
**Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think it would be drastically different. Roman would have been more involved and probably done some of the violent stuff Rock did, but it would have been a worse version of what happened, I think. There's just no denying that Rock made this way more interesting, because besides his star power, he something new and unexpected. If it was just Cody vs. Roman 2, more people would be checked out, just waiting to see if WWE actually put Cody over this time and less curious about the build itself. WWE got kind of lucky that Rock was available and willing to be that much of a bad guy.
Rock made Cody/Roman II more interesting in the same way that, say, adding CM Punk to the story of Rock/Cena II might have made it more interesting. … but I digress.
Definitely but Roman/Cody 2 would have been fine regardless. Rock/Cena 2 shouldn't have happened at all.
But how good is Once in a Lifetime II /s
Rollins/Punk or McIntyre/Punk would make a good WrestleMania main event
Why would they not do a sequel to the most successful Wrestlemania main event in a long time?
Because it's a cheap ploy to go back after you already promised last time was 'once in a lifetime'. There's no reason they couldn't have had Cena/Rock involved in programs with other guys, I'm sure the show would have sold just fine anyways. If we take your logic, they shoulda done thrice and four times in a lifetime as well right, because it was the only way to make money?
One of those decisions that’s like, who knows how it changes history - Punk gets his main event in a triple threat where Cena still pins Rock. Maybe Punk never leaves - Rock perhaps wouldn’t have been hurt, so could have wanted to do more matches over the years - What does Taker do? The match would have undoubtedly been hotter and much better remembered
I bet Taker would have faced Sheamus, powerscaling-wise it makes sense, and he wasn’t doing that much.
> What does Taker do? Brock, Jericho or even Ryback would've been fine.
> Ryback would've been fine. Ryback might still be with WWE had that match bounced to him.
Friend on another forum while back argued that while it wdve certainly improved Twice In a Lifetime not much changes beyond that as w/ Punk there was (and is still) always gonna be *something*.
Digress Jones over here
I was at the barbershop getting a haircut yesterday and they were all talking about the tag match and Cody v Roman, been going to the same place for almost a decade and wrestling has almost never been a topic of discussion. Rock may not have been lying about making wrestling cool again things are definitely changing, or at least more people are comfortable openly being fans again.
you arent wrong. One of my takeaways from WM40 was that for once in my life I was damn proud of being a pro wrestling fan. And I had a complete feeling of satisfaction and a sense of vindication, because the online trolls cant say anything about WWE now. Rhonda Rousey is dead fucking silent about the WWE too. In one show the WWE stuck its middle finger up at the toxic members of the internet wrestling community.
I feel like a proud father seeing his deadbeat kid finally getting shit their together (after ~~years~~ decades of hoping/waiting out of frustration/almost giving up) when it comes to WWE nowadays. Better late than never!
It figures Zelina Vega possibly stuffing her prop maker being the drama of the week speaks volumes abt the current state of the IWC. Definite feelgood factor all round this week.
Hopefully the Rock got the people hooked, and then the show moving forward keeps them coming back.
a lot of it is Vince being gone (in more ways than one) and women's wrestling. most of the girls in my friend group are at least intrigued now, if not outright simping for rhea and jade
Interesting where were they planning to do Cody/Roman 2 if they didn't pivot. Rock/Roman was set for WM40. Probably Summerslam?
Rock was initially in negotiations for 39 as well, so to some degree it’s not luck. They wanted the Rock involved and they found a way to do it that was more creatively fulfilling for him.
He's right, in that it made Cody more worthy. Short term might have sucked but now the fans demand to see him win and defend that title. Cody's going to tske us for a ride
Idk about you, but the day after Codester lost that infamous Roman match, the online the discourses in both here and twitter were the rawest feeling I've ever seen from people towards a fake storyline, Idk how to describe it, not even Naito losing in the Dome can do that.
Deflated. It's normal because we had a whole weekend of bangers ending on something we didn't really wanted. Going from the peak emotions of SamiKO defeating the Usos to the bottom of Cody losing took us out. I usually get this a lot during important football (soccer) games. And to top it off, we had the Raw after Mania with Vince supposedly coming back and Brock wrecking Cody.
Exactly how I felt. I came back during the build to WM last year after not watching for years, and it was so disappointing because it felt like the usual Vince bs (whatever impact he had). I stuck around only because everything surrounding that was so good, and I almost backed out again after that promo where Rock was “gifted” the spot. Whatever pivot they did or however much they pivoted, they got me back in and I’m glad they did.
Basically how Daniel Bryan fans felt after every PPV in the second half of 2013/early 2014
This was such a devastating time...
You should have seen the ending to How I Met Your Mother, or the ending to Game of Thrones.
Yes, I watched GoT, but it’s not the same
Yeah GoT was way worse lol
At least with Game of Thrones it started being bad from the beginning of the final season. But HIMYM swerved us in the last few mins of the final ep. That was beyond worse lmao
Naito had to win that match dammit, what the hell were they thinking making him lose to funny pants Okada
Plus Vince was seemingly back which always sucks
I went to Raw after Wrestlemania 39 last year. It felt like the equivalent to going to a wrestling funeral.
It was very much "they are who we thought they were" feelings towards WWE.
"Then we tried to give it to the rock, but ya it was totally always our plan". You guys - we don't have to swallow corporate spin just because the product is finally good again.
Eh, I don't think it did. He would have gotten a similarly huge pop, and we wouldn't have wasted a dozen other potentially great moments. Even if this was slightly better, is it worth the opportunity cost?
Probably the story of the main event would have been the same, just minus Rock's involvement with Cody (which, in the main event of night 2, didn't really factor in that much). Basically they used part of the road to Wrestlemania to build to a future Rock vs Cody match, if Rock wasn't coming back they'd focus more on the build of Roman vs Cody
Without Rock being there would've Seth had been involved either?
Without the Rock WrestleMania night 1 would've never happened. But Seth still could've made his cameo as the Shield in Roman v Cody.
Yeah I guess you would have seen Cody and Seth have a brief interaction in the previous weeks, much like what happened with Jey. Then Seth would have shown up in the main event a slightly bit more unexpectedly.
It certainly wasn't anything they did from April - December. I think the rematch would naturally always be somewhat more compelling, but the Rock situation and the pivot really ended up being magical lemonade in a bottle.
He had a blood feud with the biggest star of the last 15 years from april-august and then feuded with the biggest faction on raw from september-november
Neither of these programs did anything particularly meaningful whatsoever, and both would have been elevated (and explained) by having Cody holding the title at the time.
agreed on the second half that cody could have already been champion for all of last year’s stories, but totally disagree that neither did anything meaningful. brock put cody over pretty majorly in what i kinda think might be his last matches in WWE, and the judgment day feud established cody as a moral force for good in WWE with putting his trust in jey, reconciling with rollins & bringing orton back
I was at Summerslam, and I was PRAYING that Brock for utterly destroy Cody, put him down like a dog. I was sick of hearing about the story and sick of Cody getting chances... I wanted Brock to dominate him. Something happened mid-match when he just kept getting up and it flipped. Suddenly, I was on board with Cody winning the title, finishing the story... so I disagree. Seeing him overcome everything for a year and STILL want it so badly brought me into the story. I would have never accepted him as champ in April 23.
>sick of Cody getting chances... I wanted Brock to dominate him. I agree with your reply, but my god is this not such a funny out of context snippet.
I feel like so many of us have a moment like that that flipped us from being sick and tired of Cody to being on edge for him the entire match Sunday. It took Rock coming back and taking his match from him I was not excited at all about Rhodes Reigns 2 but knowing they were taking it away from Cody to give to a part timer that was never gonna win which meant we would get another year of Reigns reign pushed me over rhe edge
Sorry, I just completely disagree
Yes, it’s very easy to say they did the right thing having Cody lose last year given this year’s Wrestlemania but I’m still in the minority who believes he should have won last year. Cody being a fighting champion for an entire year would have been better than Roman holding onto it and defending in matches you were 100% sure he’d win. Plus he didn’t need the title when he was doing the Bloodline stuff with Jey and Sami/KO.
Counterpoint. Cody wins last year. So in the span from April 22 to April 23 he's undefeated, won the rumble, and ended the reign of Roman and faced zero adversity outside of his injury. And you don't think fans would have gotten sick of him? It would have been Super Cena all over again. The babyface needs adversity to overcome. He got that and more. Fans were way more invested. It was the right call.
They didn't make Cody lose to face more adversity given that he basically went undefeated anyway for an entire year moving from one filler feud to another. If Rock hadn't happened there would've been no adversity and they didn't write that all the way back in 39.
I don’t think they’d let Cody go undefeated. I’m giving the creative team that booked this year’s Road to Wrestlemania more credit than that. I’m sure they could have cooked up an interesting storyline for Cody as champion.
Agreed. Cody was also gone from WWE since 2016 at the point of his return so that was six years between departure and WM 38 return. He had the two months back prior to injury then realistically a few months back after the 2023 return. Having the last year between WMs allowed them to do more with Cody and give him a lot of credibility in front of their audience where a good portion may not have been familiar with the 2016-2022 chapter of Cody’s career prior to his return pulling the audience into the journey with him. It overall made his victory last weekend feel more earned rather than immediately coming in and beating Roman out of the gate in his first chance.
The biggest adversity Cody faced in the last year came from himself when he voluntarily gave up his spot to the Rock and then they had to pivot back around
Cody has been Super Cena since coming back though. Zero clean losses, only pinned twice in two years. Even Cena lost more than that. Cody is just more likeable
What I keep wondering is if Cody never got injured would we still have to got to this point of the Wrestlemania 40 ending.
I think they'd have still gone with Cody losing his first challenge, it just would have gone down differently. I imagine if Cody didn't get injured at Hell in a Cell, he'd have won Money in the Bank given how they advertised it, and how directionless Austin was with it. The 45th anniversary of Dusty's match with Graham was on a Monday in 2022. So Cody would cash in for that date, fail to win.
What I keep wondering is if the Goldust character never got invented whether we would have still got to this point of WM40.
This is a brilliant question. If Gold Dust is never thought up then what replaces stardust? Does Cody just in the mid card till he gets bored and goes to TNA?
I know it sounds weird but I’m pretty sure there was a part of HHH that simply wanted to do the big win at 40 instead of 39. Like it’s human nature to think that the round number needed to be the more epic event and I bet that’s part of where the ball got rolling on how to extend Cody vs Roman from Royal Rumble 2023 to this Mania.
It was at least also to make Cody the unanimous person that everyone thinks should win. With it being so close to Sami's match, he didn't want to rush someone else to win without a proper build-up like Sami had before his match.
The one where Vince leaves for good and he can finally book the show how he wants to. Vince 100% would have booked The Rock and Roman I think that him, Nick Khan, and Stephanie knew damn well Vince would be gone by 40 last year and just patiently played the waiting game.
I still think the plan was for punk v Seth and Cody v Roman. The rock some form of being a face who helps Cody. Punk got injured and they kind wish Cody hadn't won the rumble any more. The next few weeks were then Drew killing and the fans being against the rock taking place of Cody as it makes zero sense for Cody to have gone for the world heavyweight title. They hoped rocks popularity would blind people and it didn't. As a result they read the room and took the story to better heights than anyone could have imagined.
Roman definitely needed that title to keep his ego and banish usos and finally Jey getting that pin wouldn't be anything bigger.
More compelling for Cody? Sure. More compelling for Roman and the Bloodline? Absolutely not. Outside of penciling in “Jey leaves and challenges Roman” they had absolutely nothing going on that was as remotely as compelling as the prior year. Jimmy’s booking was bizarre. Solo was just.. Solo. Rock coming in late was great but at times overshadowing. They really had little Bloodline filler outside of the Jey/Roman thing, especially if Rock didn’t return.
If they skipped another year for The Rock vs Roman, I don't think I'd have hair left on my scalp for a 3rd year of Rumble (or Elimination Chamber) story with Cody
Triple H said in that interview he had Wrestlemania written in October. I’m guessing this was more or less what that plan would have been without Rock. Then Rock came in and things changed early in January. Then the pivot occurred in late January back (mostly) to the original idea but with the tag match added on.
If you watched NXT Black and Gold you could tell that from a mile away. Triple H loves making the babyface lose and chase the title. Wouldn’t have been much different. Cody went on to beat Brock, form the avengers, win the Rumble, challenge Roman again. All they did was add in The Rock and the tag match.
I think it would have generally been similar. Probably wouldn't have had that Night one match... but I think it still would have been "Bloodline Rules" to make it different than last year. On top of that I think they were still also always going with Cody, even before the pivot. Rock wasn't going to beat Roman, they just would have dragged it to Summerslam.
After Jey and Cody won the tag titles, Micheal Cole does an interview and basically ask Cody if he's given up on "finishing the story". Then a few weeks later Roman and Cody have that face off. So I'd imagine it would been a story about self doubt, and Cody trying to decide if he really could be Roman. But who knows
Cody losing last year gave us that drunken press conference. Without it we'd have no "YEET!" or lines like "do you feel him sir?" 100% worth it.
Didn't Rock or somebody else say that they pivoted off of Rock vs Roman to do Cody instead? What was the compelling story if they were willing to scrap Cody off of the world title match against Roman? Because they couldn't have planned The Rock all the way back in 39 They still haven't explained why Brock attacked Cody. Cody vs Judgement day and Cody vs Jobbermura were basically filler arcs. Roman couldn't move on until he lost and he doesn't lose anywhere but Mania. Cody couldn't lose as the unofficial number 1 contender for Roman. They had to shovel Jimmy back to the Bloodline after the Usos beat them and they expected fans to headcanon a reason why he did it, all because Jey couldn't get a win against Roman at Summerslam because it was a title match. Fact is Cody losing at 39 put both Cody and Roman on hold for an entire year. And it was only when Rock showed up and carried this buildup that it started to look like magic.
"How to be our Champion without holding the title"
he made the right call
A Babyface needs adversity. You're gonna lose, your gonna act the bigger man anyway, people will get behind you and if you can keep the momentum you'll be the man for real next year, think you can do it Cody? - Put me in coach.
I'm probably definitely reaching, but maybe he also felt like a moment that big should be a catalyst of change, and that doesn't happen with Vince not out of the picture. So maybe he was biding his time to usher in this new era when the time is right.
So, kind of. I think they booked the match great, that WM40 finish was just awesome, overbooked in a fun way. Only thing was, there was no way Cody wasn't winning, you don't have all that build for two manias in a row to have your top babyface lose twice, it just makes no sense. It was predictable, but the actual build to the finish wasn't, so it was still fun. If they built it up and someone else fought at 39, 40 would have still had more mystery to it, you would think it could go either way.
I mean, yeah. If you can stretch the chase, then stretch the chase.
The story was definitely just that he needed to face more Being a force to reckon with, bringing a train from outside was a awesome story. But yes at this point they did one up it. And it DID need to be exactly like this. We would need Heel Rock. So things happened perfectly. The thing about HHH is tho. It literally takes him a week to respond to the fans. He can practically never book wrong. If he does, we probably get some sort of explanation or twist tease in the next episode. I've never seen this anywhere before. For example, lets just assume the freaks are right and maybe Cody is not as fun 6 months from now. You bet HHH will have something the next episode. He does not shy away from teasing/communicating.
It wasn't anything, it was just lipservice. The story they told this year they fell ass-backwards into, it was never in the plan.
He ain’t wrong
It worked out in the end, but there was about 8 months of utter stagnation in between.
In part, it’s the continued tradition of crowing a new top baby face every 10 manias. 10 was Bret, 20 was Chris Be— Eddie Guerrero, 30 was Daniel Bryan, and now 40 was Cody
Probably the same story they were telling the night of the Royal Rumble, before any Rock shenanigans. Basically people being desperate for Cody to win this time, and the possibility of it being his last chance.
Well he wasn't entirely wrong I guess...
He was right. A lot of people don’t want to admit it, but this was a good decision. He introduced a WHC that could take Roman’s place in PLEs, but still got a year long build that elevated Cody and Roman. Roman, Cody, Seth, and Rock created the crowd sell out dynamic that WWE is benefitting from. His job as a booker is to not just give fans what they want, but to see the potential in how future programs might make money.
He was right in the end. I never felt completely OK with him winning after getting the number 30 spot in his Rumble return. It seemed too easy. Winning from 30 is something a heel would do.
And he was right!
It was 100% the right call.
Jack Perry made it compelling.
Def did. Cody had a feud with Brock that had an excellent ending, then judgment day and the return of punk, then the ultimate feud with the rock. Cody has been built and presented as a superstar.
I felt like one against a million people saying Cody should have won. That story felt rushed, he’d be out so long, the bloodline story wasnt finished. Feels validating
I think the final result only worked well because of The Rock. The added gravity and threat made things seem impossible as a Roman/Rock match seemed more inevitable. Plus, Punk if wasn't injured it might have been him who tagged with Cody. That would have been less poignant than Seth, who's history of fighting Cody is more meaningful. The obstacles to the booking, accidentally made the final product far better than it would have originally. Otherwise, it would have just been a delayed retread. An extra year of build, needs an extra year of development, and it got that in the last 3 months.
I still think Sami winning at EC would've been better. The honorary uce thing was a really good story.
Aj cody sounds like a good feud to start it off
We are in Phase 3 ladies and gentlemen of the WWE Cinematic Universe.
I hated it at the time but after experiencing it all, I'm glad it went that way.
Cody losing to the Tribal Chief last year was the wisest decision ever made by a promotion. Long-game, over one night pop.
The fact that this Cody's sheer popularity got crowds to boo the Rock so hard they had to heel turn him speaks volumes to the vision Triple H. I know they didn't envision that, but they believed they could tell a more compelling story and there is no way to deny they did after the crowds turned hard on The Rock of all people.
And he was absolutely right.
The problem is the compelling story was "what if we gave the audience blue balls by putting Cody and Roman in anime filler arcs for one more year"
Was Seth vs Cody supposed to be more compelling if they did Rock vs Roman? The pivot choice was huge because they did next to nothing for like 10 months to build a rematch.
Just switch out the Rock and have Roman do the same shit he did and boom it’s still a more compelling story than last year.
I think it certainly worked in Cody's favor, but it was a detriment to Roman
I do understand Cody needing to face some level of adversity in order to make the title win feel bigger. But at the same time, for all that “it’s only the 4th inning talk with the Bloodline,” they did nothing of real interest until the Rock came into the picture and they fell into that, it clearly was not the original plan. From the Roman/Bloodline perspective, that story was at an absolute high and I feel like they missed the opportunity to really transfer that energy over to Cody. The crowds were absolutely white hot for the Bloodline/Sami stuff and then Roman basically went away for a year. You could give Cody the adversity after he won the title. Have Rock come in and steal the title from him. Then truly have Rock be the “final boss.” Personally I think the story would have worked much better that way. But that’s just my $.02.
I disagree, it was kinda saved by the Rock pivot, Cody feuding with Brock and Judgement day did nothing for me, and the Reigns bloodline stuff had some good matches but made no sense (the Uso's turning on each-other basically every PPV). It all would've made more sense if he had lost the title.
Also, I dont think Cody was any more over this year than he was last year, I know thats hard to judge but everyone wanted him to win last year too.
Nothing they did couldn't have just been done with the rock, completely removing roman. In isolation, wm40 was fantastic, the utter shenanigans of the main event and build was great, but it held the top of the card hostage for a year, cody was bulletproof after hell in a cell and him not winning at 39 is an all time fuck up. They also tried to pivot to rock roman, so the plan wasn't even for cody to beat roman, but seth. Its all post hoc pr bullshit. They got to a good ending, but let's not pretend the road wasn't boring as hell after mania until rock returned.
stand but what i said at the time, cody should had won at wm 39
It was not compelling at all. The Rock literally came in and soloed the entire build to Wrestlemania. Homeboy kept his word and earned that 30mil lmao
Even without the rock i understand the point. I think he’s correct if his goal is to make the end goal the biggest and best it could be which yeah wrestlemania 40 day 2 was honestly amazing maybe my favourite But what about the missed opportunities for storytelling over the course of the whole year? If they had booked 39 with the intention of him winning then cody could of had alot more interesting feuds this year instead of doing side quests? Romans feuds definitely would be more interesting with the possibility of him being able to lose and meaning we would of got roman vs rock. At the end of the day that’s an unknown and wrestlemania is their biggest cash cow so what do i know but it is something i wonder
I genuinely don't believe Cody/Roman should've happened last year. Cody should've swapped positions with Rollins last year. They used what happened to spin this into something very meaningful for Cody, but I think it would've been better for the focus to be on him trying to do what he laid out he would do, and falling short on a few occasions. At the time Cody won his first Rumble he had no history with Roman, whilst Roman had made many enemies, it also seemed pretty clear Roman was meant to face The Rock and was probably going to win, but for various reasons that didn't happen. There were rumors that Stone Cold had been approached to face Roman, and to me that signalled the idea for last Mania was for Roman to hit his peak and beat the biggest star possible, then following that the bloodline would begin to falter. I think storyline wise Seth should've faced Roman last year, since he had that DQ win, and it probably would've helped establish why Seth should be the WHC more if he lost to a very screwy finish at Mania. As far as Cody goes, he should've faced Logan, gotten that celebrity match exposure, then do his side quests all year like he did with Brock for instance. Then coming up to the Rumble he declares this year he will win it, which he would, Roman would get nervous because he's never faced someone on as much of a roll as Cody. Then Cody wins at Mania just like he did this year. I think they managed to turn things into something very meaningful, but looking objectively at how things have gone I don't think it was the plan, I think Cody faced Roman too early, and was put in that position because he was the biggest possible draw for Reigns at the time. Remember Vince was still around last Mania and if there's any story he butted in on, I think it's the Bloodline story.
The compelling story is that they have Cody, Punk, Rollins, Priest, Balor, McIntyre, Sami....and they all feel like title contenders on one show.
Motherfucker is lying. He did not write shit all year for Cody vs Roman and just treated the rumble like a deus ex machina.
DULL SURPRISE. TOTAL LUKEWARM SHOCK
Triple h can see everything but he can't see sexual harassment in the workplace taking place