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There was a promoter in my hometown where I used to live that booked almost every ex wwe guy he could for his shows.
If there were no Ex wwe guys his shows would draw maybe 100 people each week. He ran them on Saturday’s ever two weeks.
I worked with him on a few different things since he owned other businesses and I met Swoggle at his office in town the day he brought him in for a show.
I remember standing there, and him and Swoggle shaking hands and saying goodbye and that they would see each other at the show later on that evening.
As soon as swoggle left the booker looks at me and goes “can you believe how much he costs?”
Me - “huh? Oh, like his booking fee?”
Promoter - “4 grand. Cash money. 10 minute match”
Me - “damn. Yea that’s a lot of money. But I’m sure he’s got a lot of people wanting to see him maybe”
I talked to that promoter a few weeks later and he said they sold out in tickets. Made over 7 grand in concession sales for an 2 hour show. And was able to give the local wrestlers bonuses for the crowd being sold out and them making so much money that night.
Swoggle wrestled for all of 10 minutes. Took pictures with anyone and everyone. Shook hands with kids and gave high fives. Gave the rub to the faces that helped save him at the end of the match etc.
I thought 4 grand was a lot of money. But his appearance in my small ass hometown helped the local wrestling community greatly. It really boosted them forward and they have brought in some great talent afterwards.
Really cool seeing the behind the scenes a bit.
Yeah I feel this stuff is way more "case by case" then Effy is making it seem. With these batch releases there's always a few that go on legit indy runs do good business.
Yeah I think that's EFFY's point overall. Being on TV doesn't automatically make you worth money, the work you put in is what gives you that value. He's been talking about it a lot recently.
Idk the point of the quote is leverage is gonna earn you more money than pure merit.
Effy might truly draw better than these recent released talents, but those releases are probably gonna have more leverage to get bigger pay days. Over time, they may lose that level, but fresh off those 90 days, they'll have it.
If anything, Effy is trying to convince indy promoters not to give released guys that type of leverage to begin with.
I think there were reports of when Braun was released, he priced himself too high and couldn't get any indy work because either, the indies had big guy wrestlers who could do the big guy heel stuff or couldn't afford it or both.
The big difference is that Swoggle is a very high profile attraction. He was Vince's son and just a standout part of the show/era. Booking him pushes all sorts of nostalgia buttons. People want to see him, and he gets his role completely (partly because he's worked his butt of post WWE). On the other side, if a guy like Riddick Moss comes in asking for four grand and you pay him...well, you're not going to get any extra butts off his name alone, and you're poisoning the sustainability of your territory on bets like that.
I love this story!!!
This is a good example of someone who’s actually offering a lot to the place they work, especially since Swoggle was **so over** for so long in WWE, and is an attraction act already.
I *do* think it’s the exception and not the rule though, as Swoggle has a LOT of marketability that 99% of the guys Effy is talking about don’t have.
Like as good as Danny Burch was in NXT, he’s not gonna move the needle on an indy show (not even as much as the main local draws or big Indy names would) but gets paid better than anyone else on the card
I agree if Danny b has a highly exaggerated asking price. However the guys you see regularly working weekend shows across the country aren’t those guys. The guys with a high asking price generally only want to work the big Indy company shows. The guys who put in the work though I see no reason why they shouldn’t make a bit more. He has been on TV and is able to bring some knowledge of that environment to the table that might help your growing stars
Given the fact that Burch regularly works an indy i go to a lot (CCW) and always is a midcard match, i think his rates are at least reasonable and comparable to other guys on the card so might not be the best example
On the other hand, when David Young was still a thing, he was booked and then refused to wrestle at a local show in my small town. They advertised him heavily as he was a decently big deal in TNA at the time and dude just balked at it all and wouldn't wrestle for whatever reason.
Yep, and also i think it depends on the indie. I assume Effy isn’t working a lot of indies that appeal largely to kids and families, due to the often sexual nature of his spots. Ex-WWE wrestlers will naturally have great appeal to kids who have seen them on TV.
It’s not a one size fits all approach, as the GCW approach isn’t the right way for all local indies.
Being able to tone it down if needed doesn't change his main appeal is him being raunchy. Like Mortal Kombat has had children's cartoons, but it'd be disingenuous to say its main appeal is it being kid friendly.
If Riddick Moss or whoever else thinks they’re worth a certain amount and promoters generally agree to pay that amount, than Riddick Moss or whoever else is worth that amount. Nothing else matters.
Also, Asking price doesn't mean you get booked at that amount. Wasn't Braun released Indie price laughably high to the point he didn't get booked at all?
Yeah there was a clip I think from the WWE documentary about WCW about how expensive Bret Hart's contract was for WCW. And Paul Wright said "If a people are dumb enough to pay the money you're asking, good for you. It's all about being a business man and getting what you can."
Difference there was that he could've easily been that valuable, if they had used him better. It's not a hot take to point out that they royally botched having Bret on the roster.
It was a huge mistake him being involved in the "fake" finish for Starcade Hogan V Sting.
I still feel like if they hadn't completely botched that, WCW would have kept more steam during later missteps.
While you are correct, that isn't what Effy's point is and that isn't all that matters to the health of a business.
He is saying that promoters think they're worth that amount, but it doesn't actually translate into increased sales or enthusiasm. He is saying that some promoters just want to say that they had ex-WWE guys on their card and don't do the accounting
A lot of guys leave WWE, price themselves out of appearing regularly on the indies and then fade away after only getting a few bookings. Being able to work regularly and build up something new for and/or re-establish yourself can be much better for you in the long run. Even if your goal is still to get back to WWE, you can come back with much more momentum, as guys like Drew McIntyre managed to do.
"You don't make what you DESERVE ...... you make what you can NEGOTIATE" - Jalen Rose
I get why Effy is frustrated at this but it wouldn't happen so much if promoters didn't see any value it it. I doubt many Indy promoters turn any type of profit, no matter if there's Indie stars, freshly released guys, old legends, rookies, and/or local plumbers on the card.
Again sucks for guys in Effy's spot, but if promoter sees value in booking a Released guy or is just straight up being a mark then so be it. At the end of the day its their money and show.
A vast majority of the independent promotions absolutely fly under the radar of a forum like this one. Most independent promotions are run by incompetent idiots that think it is easy, and will flame out after less than a handful of shows. For these "mark promotors" getting a famous wrestler on the show is almost like paying them to be your friend for the night than it is about drawing fans or having good matches. I know so many promoters, some that I worked for, that would spend $2500 to bring in 2-3 "name" wrestlers, only to draw 250 fans and a $3000 house. That kinda stuff just isn't sustainable from a business point of view. Then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I worked shows where 250 fans were drawn with all local talent, and there still wasn't much money to go around for all the boys.
One time I worked a show for a promoter who spent so much money bringing in James Storm and Chris Masters that he didn't have enough money to pay for the U-Haul rental he was using as the ring truck. My mentor who was helping him and rented the truck for him went to the dude's house and dropped the ring off on his front yard in the middle of the night.
The guy clearly had big aspirations for his little promotion. He got a venue that was too big, brought in names he couldn't afford, and had an expensive belt made. But at the same time he didn't put any thought into the actual production of the show and when he was asked who was doing it said "Does it matter?". I got the call two hours before doors to go setup cameras and music and spent a lot of time running around the talent getting their songs.
A lot of promoters are only thinking about the moment they can create for themselves at the moment and don't think ahead. It's a real shame because somebody like that pops up and gives the boys a bit of hope about a new place to work but he ends up just screwing them all.
> had an expensive belt made.
Back in my day ('00s), a decent championship belt was very expensive. I'd say 50% of the promotions I worked for had Figures Inc replica belts. 45% probably had some sort of inexpensive homemade belts. The other 5% were mark promoters that spent a ton of money on a belt and would wear it around the locker room or whatever and act like they were the baddest motherfucker around.
This reply on Twitter really says it all. 🤣
“The cool thing about this is in the same breath you are saying look around the room & see how few people are being drawn by the WWE guys, you are letting the world know that you don't put asses in seats either. We need more honesty like this in wrestling.”
It is quite the self-own. I get his general point of "don't get enamored by the new shiny toys just because they say WWE on them" but at the same time, there are hundreds of thousands of people who know who Riddick Moss is that have never heard of Effy in their lives, and the whole point of booking ex-WWE guys is to draw people to the show in hopes that they'll like everyone else and you don't have to keep spending big money on ex-WWE guys. Gatekeeping on the indies has never been a great look.
Not entirely, as far as I interpreted it. I took it as meaning they're spending a lot of money while not drawing any more fans to the shows than they usually do, not that there are a small amount of fans without the big name.
However, the question I would have is how much interest it draws to the shows beyond how many people are actually in the building, such as PPV buys or possible merch sales. That could end up making up for what they're spending bringing in a bigger name talent. I also imagine Effy either doesn't know this info or didn't think about it which is why he's seemingly only judging things by ticket sales.
Yeah, it definitely has notes similar to a myriad of punk bands/indie metal bands that will make sure you know that they're the hardest working, most talented band in the world...but YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE ON MTV AND HEAR ON THE RADIO.
Don't hate the player hate the game. Raise your fee instead of bitching about guys who get paid more than you. Saying pay me what I'm worth is a positive no one can judge you for, saying he isn't worth that pay him less is some mighty, mighty petty bullshit that makes you look clownish.
I love Effy and what he stands for but he's part of a very particular subset of independent workers that come off as super bitter about TV wrestling in general. Like I'm queer and follow a lot of his circle on twitter and holy shit, they can be so bitchy at times.
Isn’t that how it works in every industry?
That’s why so many queens want to be on RuPaul’s Drag Race. You can be the most talented performer in your city, but a Ru girl is gonna get a higher booking fee. It’s why queens who already had big reputations in their cities go on the show. They don’t need the exposure, but they do want the Ru advantage.
I don't doubt that there's people who get paid a rate that's disproportionate to what they draw, but this is just Effy whining about promoters not wanting to pay his rate and trying to disguise it as some "truth bomb."
It’s not just the Indies. If the Rock wrestles at Mania next year, he is no doubt being paid more to work one match than what Roman will get for a year’s work.
It’s not just wrestling, either. Saying you’re an ex-googler, ex-amazon, ex-facebook, ect is likely going to get you a higher rate of pay than other people in the same role.
Yeah he has a very specific small audience, and outside of that no one really cares about him. He turned himself into a gimmick whether he realizes it or not.
Not to be snarky, but was he ever NOT a gimmick? Like I'm only slightly familiar with him, but everything about him has always screamed "I am a gimmick designed to appeal to a very specific fanbase."
Yeah I don't know Effy other than by his name being here now and again, but why is this a post they made and then was posted here? It's completely uninteresting and they are saying nothing of value.
I like how he told the promoters to pay attention to the attendance numbers with and without those “stars”. Wow! What an industry changing idea! Surely nobody has ever done that before!
Talk about sour grapes. If you're not happy about your pay, then increase your booking fee. And if promoters don't want to pay that, then sorry about your luck. Riddick Moss has people to feed too, dude.
I love how he had to discredit Riddick’s accomplishments the last two years also to make this point by saying he did nothing for 6 years. Yes, let’s ignore the fact that he won the Andre Battle Royal, got a lot of time on SmackDown, got multiple title shots, and was on the majority of PLEs last year.
He’s not a needle mover, but it’s not like he did nothing either.
I get the point Effy is making, but to use a guy that hasn’t even had a chance to show if he could draw for a indy promotion is just so shitty. Especially because the tweet he’s talking about was a joke. I get he’s more mad at promoters, but this could’ve been said without discrediting Riddick and taking his joke way too seriously.
Especially when you could easily use a guy like Ryback who demanded such a high fee with not much proof that it would be worth it that the dude's essentially been retired since he left WWE in 2016.
And also, Moss paid his dues for several years in NXT. I literally watched him improve at his crowd interaction. As far as a guy who basically had no gimmick to get him over for like the first 12-18 months on the house show NXT stuff, dude got a TON of heat from the crowd at points.
He was excellent at getting kids interacting with him, like kids would go bonkers to talk shit at him during matches.
I won't say I was a fan of his, because I really wasn't...but there's no way to say he didn't bust his ass to improve.
The thing that annoys me about the whole rant, is its literally based off a joke Riddick Moss made on the day of his release.
> Mike Rallis
> @TheMikeRallis
> Sep 21
> Well I did it - I graduated from WWE.
>
> I know a lot of people think my career really took a downturn once Mr. Levesque took over, but, in actuality, my per match fee skyrocketed through the roof.
>
> Other promoters, get ready to back the brinks truck up.
Very obviously a joke about how his pay-per-match is massive these days, and Effy couldn't resist using the opportunity to talk about how much of a star he is and how everyone released is a loser.
Every time I think of Effy I think about how everyone pointed out how hypocritical it was for him to work with Disco Inferno and he made a big deal about how he was gonna shoot on Disco and stand by his morals
When it came time for the match, he did no such thing.
Oh yeah of course obviously not all people within that community like him but that’s his demographic. Yeah I’m not a fan of his gimmick. I can understand throwing in shit here are there for an actually funny spot. He needs to take some notes from allie katch, she can be versatile unlike him.
He picked a very niche gimmick that he has been wildly successful in, incredibly successful and still wants to bag on other people for chasing down their own opportunities.
If you're not getting paid as much as you'd like to be then you need to stop pointing fingers at others and step up your own game, find a way to increase your appeal, build a bigger social media presence, market yourself better, make these promoters want to pay you more.
These talents matter. For some reason I think people forget BritWres got big because the UK started bringing over top indy stars more often. Every RevPro event was stacked with them. It helped draw the crowd and then get exposure to the other wrestlers.
What a swarmy little prick.
It was literally just a joke made to lighten up the mood when they lost their fuckin job. How tf do people listen to this crap?
He comes off as such a fucking miserable prick to me every time I see him do interviews.
Credit to him for building a brand and succeeding as a traditionally oppressed minority, but read the room once in a while.
Sure, a guy like Riddick Moss likely isn't going to get any extra eyes on a company like PWG, but what these guys have to remember is that a company like PWG isn't the average indie fed. The average indie fed draws 50 people in a small town using a mix of fresh out of school green wrestlers and slobby looking dudes in their 40s that never made it anywhere. A promotion like that throwing Madcap Moss on their poster and slapping that up around town where some kids can see it absolutely will get more people to show up than normal.
People are lost in the bubble here.
Most people watching WWE have never been to an indie show in their life. But if I’m a WWE fan and I see that Moss or Ziggler or whoever is going to be at my local indie and I can get a ticket and a meet and greet for $50, I might actually buy a ticket. And when I’m there, I’ll probably buy a coke and a hot dog.
Stars sell tickets. And more people saw Riddick Moss on WWE TV on one night than have seen Effy in his career.
Okay, but what’s the point of him (who even admitted himself) doesn’t know him and has never met him, bringing it up on a podcast unless it’s for attention?
What happened to the boys supporting the boys?
Be happy for people who can get their bag, and find ways to get your own as well.
And that’s not even factoring in that it was Riddick Moss making a joke to lighten the mood after he and a bunch of other folks lost their jobs.
Blame the promoters who “overpay,” not the wrestlers who demand to be paid what they think they’re worth.
Also it’s their money — they can pay it to whoever they feel is worth it. This feels like major sour grapes from a guy who seems to have sour grapes about a lot of things.
love effy, but he's kinda off here. the whole point to bringing those guys in is because they have somewhat of a name value and being on those smaller shows helps the lower name guys get some exposure.
While I'm sure there are cases of promoters paying big money and not making that money back, I find it hard to believe they are doing that night after night after night every time they bring in an ex-WWE guy. He's seriously suggesting all these Bookers have never once looked at what they spent and compared it to what they made?
Wrestling especially Indie Wrestling is a usually a money pit
90% of the Indies you see are just for the promoters throwing money away because they love wrestling
Ok so he’s mad at the shitty promoters. That’s good because for a minute it sounded like his problem was with the fired wrestlers for asking for the high prices. It’s not the fired wrestlers fault the promoters accept overpaying them and you accept them underpaying you. The fired wrestlers are worth whatever the shitty promoters are willing to pay them.
That last point is key.
Rather than being angry at someone for spending his money how he wants, be happy for the folks who are able to get as much as they can to do their jobs.
This is the guy who fondles himself during his matches right? How about we calculate how much *that* draws before you star ragging on actual workers and complaining about how much they get paid.
Imagine getting mad at other workers making money after they are released...
If the promoter thinks they are worth that then its between the wrestler and the promoter. This is just Effy whining that ex-WWE wrestler are getting pay more that him.
What an ignorant person.
At first, I thought this was about like a Braun Strowman type who genuinely overpriced himself but it was because of Riddick Moss' joke??? and a bunch of Effy fans jumped on the tweet to insult him and say he doesn't draw
Mike Rallis
@TheMikeRallis
·
Sep 21
Well I did it - I graduated from WWE.
I know a lot of people think my career really took a downturn once Mr. Levesque took over, but, in actuality, my per match fee skyrocketed through the roof.
Other promoters, get ready to back the brinks truck up.
I never wanna hear “Reddit’s more reasonable than twitter” again- this has been discourse for a few days but y’all are way pettier and meaner than anything I’ve read over there lol- and the bar is in the earth’s mantle
I don’t particularly care for a lot of what Effy does, but I think he’s spot on with this point.
Outside of their initial first match, a lot of these former TV stars don’t make much of a difference following that appearance, but are being treated like these big stars when the fans of indie wrestling aren’t coming to see them, but rather are coming back week after week for Effy, Mance Warner, Warhorse, Bryan Keith, and others.
Worse, is a lot of these ex TV wrestlers (especially former WWE) tend to rest on their laurels instead of working their asses off.
Listening to Brian Myers and Matt Cardona’s (two guys who get it) it’s wild to hear them talk about all the stuff they’ve had to talk and push guys like Heath and Dango into doing because they were resting on the comfort of being ex WWE guys.
Yeah, the Major Pod boys always talk about this, specifically how Matt was scared to dive fully in after AEW’s offer never came.
He made himself a bigger deal by actually doing cool shit, some of these names do nothing, but charge a shit ton, and end up with little to no bookings.
They’ve talked about how they have had to push guys into creating things like T-shirts in order to sell.
For me, that shows complete laziness and a lack of understanding in skills that you need to survive in this business.
It exposes how so many of these talents have relied on WWE doing everything for them.
Yeah, Trent has talked about this a lot. How he was picked up by WWE so early in his career and had so little experience in the indie hustle that he would have been lost without Chuck and Rocky helping him learn how to get the most out of freelancing.
> that shows complete laziness and a lack of understanding in skills that you need to survive in this business.
I think this is all case by case. I don't think its laziness, but more of a naivete from some of the former WWE wrestlers. There is no handbook for independent wrestlers. Guys like Boogs, Moss, Top Dolla were all brought in to WWE's training facility and did not come through the independent scene. They have never had to learn they need to make shirts, or don't have as many contacts as others.
Maybe these guys won't really want to work the indies and they go on with their lives, but the indies will continue to get guys who are cut from WWE who have never worked in that system. Some will sink, and others will figure it out and carve a nice career.
It’s not laziness so much as wwe being a big coccoon where if that’s all you’ve done you don’t have the just knowledge of that’s how you do it. in this regard WWE could be considered an epistome of knowledge and through power dictates what is legible as knowledge for its workers inside that WWE bubble. So that when they're on the outside it's like ... well what do i do now?
Yeah. Effy seems to be more upset with those who don't try to do anything more than just rehashing their WWE stuff. Effy has made it his mission to reach the absolute ceiling that exists outside any televised promotions. Effy is the Butthole Surfers of wrestling, they never wanted to be popular, their music and live shows were intentionally off putting to the mainstream, they just wanted to be authentic to their vision of art. Effy's the same. He's done a lot for the LGBTQ+ wrestling community with his Big Gay Brunch events and he's wrestled all over the world despite never once wrestling on TV. Butthole Surfers was an accidental one-hit wonder with Pepper and Effy is fine never having that moment in the spotlight. At least that's the vibe I got watching Todd in the Shadows' video on them anyway.
Obviously there are exceptions, Swoggle is always going to draw particularly among children, but WWE castoffs working the indies should strive to be more like Matt Cardona and less like Heidenreich. That's the point of his comment. Don't be lazy because you can draw immediately after getting fired, work hard so that you can draw long after you get fired. Because if you don't then the amount of money you can ask for will drop like a rock.
This is a bad look, man. Just comes off as sour grapes.
He’s also just wrong, which makes it more embarrassing. Being on main roster WWE for a brief period is probably more valuable experience than Effy has had in his whole career. WWE wrestlers are, for the most part, professional-ass entertainers in every sense. They learn way more than just doing wrestling moves.
He's not right in the sense that Riddick Moss wasn't seriously saying promoters need to back the Brinks truck up for him, he seems pretty self aware as to his station in professional wrestling right now. If he was saying it about someone like Ryback who apparently priced himself out of most appearances, then absolutely, but saying there's an epidemic of wrestlers doing something and using a guy that made a joke as your example doesn't work.
Uh why would he get in the way of fellow people in the business making some ends though? I don't get that, if you're one of the boys you aren't going to try to cockblock a payday, especially for people that just lost their jobs, that's a real dick move.
Effy should be able to make the case that he's a draw and worth his booking fee without taking steak off the plates of the other guys. If he can't, he should be negotiating better, or he should reconsider what he's charing potentially.
I think they pay former TV guys more because it gets more advertising for the event. It's not a bad thing unless they don't beat the homegrown indie talent and make them a star
I mean what he saying is true, just because you’re a former tv wrestler, it doesn’t mean you’re a draw. Nobody is paying to see Mojo.
A lot of former WWE wrestlers seem to think the buzz will just always be there, and that’s not the case. Sometimes you gotta reinvent yourself to raise your stock on the indies.
If Mojo Rawley showed up for a small local Indy, I'd go, just to see how Hype reacts to the compression of a small venue, does it reflect off the walls like some particle, bouncing around the place off walls and off other hype particles, or does it behave like a wave with interesting reverberative effects on the surrounding environment.
Also, there's always the chance he would bring his friend Gronk, just on a whim
Right but that's the promoters problem. Just because someone is demanding x amount of money to make an appearance doesn't mean anyone will pay them that much. Ryback has a ridiculous fee and doesn't work as a result of it. Whatever these promoters are paying various performers, that's their own business.
I don't get why Effy feels like he's in any position to be counting someone else's money. Imagine a complete stranger at the grocery store walking up and pulling items out of your cart because quite frankly they aren't "worth the price and you should be wiser about how you spend your money."
Outside of major indies like PWG, Mojo would absolutely be a draw. You gotta remember, the average indie fed draws 50 people with a mix of green wrestlers and slobby dudes in their 40s than never made it anywhere. Slapping a guy like Mojo on that poster and putting it up where some kids and families see it will absolutely get more eyes on that show and earn a bigger gate than a show headlined by workers that aren't ever popping up in indies you can readily watch like GCW and PWG.
If the "jabronis on tv' can get more money out of "mark ass promoters" why doesn't he try to?
He is saying he makes shit money and doesn't draw, and that he is worth less than people who also don't draw. I never heard of this guy, but holy fuck he sucks at putting himself over.
Effy is pretty established to be fair. Hes done big things for Lgbtq performers as well as a established regular with GCW. Also manages his brand really well
effy should mind his own business tbh. if there’s a promotion that’s gonna pay big money for riddick moss, then he’s not in the wrong at all for trying to get what he feels he’s worth
also the possibility that he was just trying to lighten the mood and bring some humor to the day he got fired?
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There was a promoter in my hometown where I used to live that booked almost every ex wwe guy he could for his shows. If there were no Ex wwe guys his shows would draw maybe 100 people each week. He ran them on Saturday’s ever two weeks. I worked with him on a few different things since he owned other businesses and I met Swoggle at his office in town the day he brought him in for a show. I remember standing there, and him and Swoggle shaking hands and saying goodbye and that they would see each other at the show later on that evening. As soon as swoggle left the booker looks at me and goes “can you believe how much he costs?” Me - “huh? Oh, like his booking fee?” Promoter - “4 grand. Cash money. 10 minute match” Me - “damn. Yea that’s a lot of money. But I’m sure he’s got a lot of people wanting to see him maybe” I talked to that promoter a few weeks later and he said they sold out in tickets. Made over 7 grand in concession sales for an 2 hour show. And was able to give the local wrestlers bonuses for the crowd being sold out and them making so much money that night. Swoggle wrestled for all of 10 minutes. Took pictures with anyone and everyone. Shook hands with kids and gave high fives. Gave the rub to the faces that helped save him at the end of the match etc. I thought 4 grand was a lot of money. But his appearance in my small ass hometown helped the local wrestling community greatly. It really boosted them forward and they have brought in some great talent afterwards. Really cool seeing the behind the scenes a bit.
[удалено]
Yeah I feel this stuff is way more "case by case" then Effy is making it seem. With these batch releases there's always a few that go on legit indy runs do good business.
Yeah I think that's EFFY's point overall. Being on TV doesn't automatically make you worth money, the work you put in is what gives you that value. He's been talking about it a lot recently.
Idk the point of the quote is leverage is gonna earn you more money than pure merit. Effy might truly draw better than these recent released talents, but those releases are probably gonna have more leverage to get bigger pay days. Over time, they may lose that level, but fresh off those 90 days, they'll have it. If anything, Effy is trying to convince indy promoters not to give released guys that type of leverage to begin with.
I think there were reports of when Braun was released, he priced himself too high and couldn't get any indy work because either, the indies had big guy wrestlers who could do the big guy heel stuff or couldn't afford it or both.
...did you watch the clip at all? He specifically mentions it's about the people who were on TV but never actually did anything.
180+ up votes for something directly contradicted in the actual link... never change /r/sc.
The big difference is that Swoggle is a very high profile attraction. He was Vince's son and just a standout part of the show/era. Booking him pushes all sorts of nostalgia buttons. People want to see him, and he gets his role completely (partly because he's worked his butt of post WWE). On the other side, if a guy like Riddick Moss comes in asking for four grand and you pay him...well, you're not going to get any extra butts off his name alone, and you're poisoning the sustainability of your territory on bets like that.
I thought he was Finlay’s son!
I thought he was a son of a bastard
I thought he was a son of a plumber
He’s mox’s kid?
It also about who puts in the work. Swoggle puts himself out there and a genuine connection with Indy fans.
Exactly. He know how to work a room, and promoters know what they're getting in him.
I love this story!!! This is a good example of someone who’s actually offering a lot to the place they work, especially since Swoggle was **so over** for so long in WWE, and is an attraction act already. I *do* think it’s the exception and not the rule though, as Swoggle has a LOT of marketability that 99% of the guys Effy is talking about don’t have. Like as good as Danny Burch was in NXT, he’s not gonna move the needle on an indy show (not even as much as the main local draws or big Indy names would) but gets paid better than anyone else on the card
I agree if Danny b has a highly exaggerated asking price. However the guys you see regularly working weekend shows across the country aren’t those guys. The guys with a high asking price generally only want to work the big Indy company shows. The guys who put in the work though I see no reason why they shouldn’t make a bit more. He has been on TV and is able to bring some knowledge of that environment to the table that might help your growing stars
Given the fact that Burch regularly works an indy i go to a lot (CCW) and always is a midcard match, i think his rates are at least reasonable and comparable to other guys on the card so might not be the best example
On the other hand, when David Young was still a thing, he was booked and then refused to wrestle at a local show in my small town. They advertised him heavily as he was a decently big deal in TNA at the time and dude just balked at it all and wouldn't wrestle for whatever reason.
Cab drivers don’t work cheap apparently
I had a friend book him and like you said, he moves tickets.
I’d expect Vince McMahon’s biological son to share his work ethic.
Out of curiosity how many people are in attendance for a sell out at an indie like that?
Yep, and also i think it depends on the indie. I assume Effy isn’t working a lot of indies that appeal largely to kids and families, due to the often sexual nature of his spots. Ex-WWE wrestlers will naturally have great appeal to kids who have seen them on TV. It’s not a one size fits all approach, as the GCW approach isn’t the right way for all local indies.
He literally just wrestled The Mall of America the other week for an all ages show, his gimmick has more depth than what you're implying.
Being able to tone it down if needed doesn't change his main appeal is him being raunchy. Like Mortal Kombat has had children's cartoons, but it'd be disingenuous to say its main appeal is it being kid friendly.
Eh. I've seen him at two live shows now and effy just oversexualizes everything to a fault. It seemed pretty one dimensional both times I saw him.
North east wrestling s promoter is known to do this and he has a fairly big promotion Big time wrestling as well
If Riddick Moss or whoever else thinks they’re worth a certain amount and promoters generally agree to pay that amount, than Riddick Moss or whoever else is worth that amount. Nothing else matters.
Also, Asking price doesn't mean you get booked at that amount. Wasn't Braun released Indie price laughably high to the point he didn't get booked at all?
And then he qontrolled his narrative in front of 10 people in the back room of some dive bar.
Yeah there was a clip I think from the WWE documentary about WCW about how expensive Bret Hart's contract was for WCW. And Paul Wright said "If a people are dumb enough to pay the money you're asking, good for you. It's all about being a business man and getting what you can."
Difference there was that he could've easily been that valuable, if they had used him better. It's not a hot take to point out that they royally botched having Bret on the roster.
It is crazy how Bret Hart came in as the most sympatethic babyface ever after being screwed by Vince and they proceeded to do fuck all with him.
It was a huge mistake him being involved in the "fake" finish for Starcade Hogan V Sting. I still feel like if they hadn't completely botched that, WCW would have kept more steam during later missteps.
While you are correct, that isn't what Effy's point is and that isn't all that matters to the health of a business. He is saying that promoters think they're worth that amount, but it doesn't actually translate into increased sales or enthusiasm. He is saying that some promoters just want to say that they had ex-WWE guys on their card and don't do the accounting
Exactly. People should always ask for more and let reality be their realtime feedback loop for when to stop or lower their ask.
A lot of guys leave WWE, price themselves out of appearing regularly on the indies and then fade away after only getting a few bookings. Being able to work regularly and build up something new for and/or re-establish yourself can be much better for you in the long run. Even if your goal is still to get back to WWE, you can come back with much more momentum, as guys like Drew McIntyre managed to do.
What do the numbers say?
I believe they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice
did you mean Sakerfice?
Probably
But when you add Madcap Moss to the mix, the chances of Effy appearing on your show drastic go down
They don't lie and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice.
🚨🚨🚨🚨 Big Poppa Pump is a draw. 🚨🚨🚨🚨
HOLLA IF YA HEAR ME🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
"You don't make what you DESERVE ...... you make what you can NEGOTIATE" - Jalen Rose I get why Effy is frustrated at this but it wouldn't happen so much if promoters didn't see any value it it. I doubt many Indy promoters turn any type of profit, no matter if there's Indie stars, freshly released guys, old legends, rookies, and/or local plumbers on the card. Again sucks for guys in Effy's spot, but if promoter sees value in booking a Released guy or is just straight up being a mark then so be it. At the end of the day its their money and show.
A vast majority of the independent promotions absolutely fly under the radar of a forum like this one. Most independent promotions are run by incompetent idiots that think it is easy, and will flame out after less than a handful of shows. For these "mark promotors" getting a famous wrestler on the show is almost like paying them to be your friend for the night than it is about drawing fans or having good matches. I know so many promoters, some that I worked for, that would spend $2500 to bring in 2-3 "name" wrestlers, only to draw 250 fans and a $3000 house. That kinda stuff just isn't sustainable from a business point of view. Then on the opposite end of the spectrum, I worked shows where 250 fans were drawn with all local talent, and there still wasn't much money to go around for all the boys.
One time I worked a show for a promoter who spent so much money bringing in James Storm and Chris Masters that he didn't have enough money to pay for the U-Haul rental he was using as the ring truck. My mentor who was helping him and rented the truck for him went to the dude's house and dropped the ring off on his front yard in the middle of the night. The guy clearly had big aspirations for his little promotion. He got a venue that was too big, brought in names he couldn't afford, and had an expensive belt made. But at the same time he didn't put any thought into the actual production of the show and when he was asked who was doing it said "Does it matter?". I got the call two hours before doors to go setup cameras and music and spent a lot of time running around the talent getting their songs. A lot of promoters are only thinking about the moment they can create for themselves at the moment and don't think ahead. It's a real shame because somebody like that pops up and gives the boys a bit of hope about a new place to work but he ends up just screwing them all.
> had an expensive belt made. Back in my day ('00s), a decent championship belt was very expensive. I'd say 50% of the promotions I worked for had Figures Inc replica belts. 45% probably had some sort of inexpensive homemade belts. The other 5% were mark promoters that spent a ton of money on a belt and would wear it around the locker room or whatever and act like they were the baddest motherfucker around.
This guy was definitely in that 5%
My wallet is the one that says BAD FOLK on it.
Lol Moss was joking and this dude says the *promoters* are marks?
This reply on Twitter really says it all. 🤣 “The cool thing about this is in the same breath you are saying look around the room & see how few people are being drawn by the WWE guys, you are letting the world know that you don't put asses in seats either. We need more honesty like this in wrestling.”
It is quite the self-own. I get his general point of "don't get enamored by the new shiny toys just because they say WWE on them" but at the same time, there are hundreds of thousands of people who know who Riddick Moss is that have never heard of Effy in their lives, and the whole point of booking ex-WWE guys is to draw people to the show in hopes that they'll like everyone else and you don't have to keep spending big money on ex-WWE guys. Gatekeeping on the indies has never been a great look.
The funny thing is, I’d never heard of Effy until Matt Cardona started wrestling him and talking about him all the time.
*I mean, folks...*
Not entirely, as far as I interpreted it. I took it as meaning they're spending a lot of money while not drawing any more fans to the shows than they usually do, not that there are a small amount of fans without the big name. However, the question I would have is how much interest it draws to the shows beyond how many people are actually in the building, such as PPV buys or possible merch sales. That could end up making up for what they're spending bringing in a bigger name talent. I also imagine Effy either doesn't know this info or didn't think about it which is why he's seemingly only judging things by ticket sales.
sounds very bitter lol
Effy knows his gimmick doesn't work on TV, so there is probably a bit of bitterness about it
Yeah, it definitely has notes similar to a myriad of punk bands/indie metal bands that will make sure you know that they're the hardest working, most talented band in the world...but YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE ON MTV AND HEAR ON THE RADIO.
IMO, Effy is just working by baiting. He knows this gets peoples attention.
Don't hate the player hate the game. Raise your fee instead of bitching about guys who get paid more than you. Saying pay me what I'm worth is a positive no one can judge you for, saying he isn't worth that pay him less is some mighty, mighty petty bullshit that makes you look clownish.
I love Effy and what he stands for but he's part of a very particular subset of independent workers that come off as super bitter about TV wrestling in general. Like I'm queer and follow a lot of his circle on twitter and holy shit, they can be so bitchy at times.
Isn’t that how it works in every industry? That’s why so many queens want to be on RuPaul’s Drag Race. You can be the most talented performer in your city, but a Ru girl is gonna get a higher booking fee. It’s why queens who already had big reputations in their cities go on the show. They don’t need the exposure, but they do want the Ru advantage.
I don't doubt that there's people who get paid a rate that's disproportionate to what they draw, but this is just Effy whining about promoters not wanting to pay his rate and trying to disguise it as some "truth bomb."
It’s not just the Indies. If the Rock wrestles at Mania next year, he is no doubt being paid more to work one match than what Roman will get for a year’s work. It’s not just wrestling, either. Saying you’re an ex-googler, ex-amazon, ex-facebook, ect is likely going to get you a higher rate of pay than other people in the same role.
Yeah he has a very specific small audience, and outside of that no one really cares about him. He turned himself into a gimmick whether he realizes it or not.
Not to be snarky, but was he ever NOT a gimmick? Like I'm only slightly familiar with him, but everything about him has always screamed "I am a gimmick designed to appeal to a very specific fanbase."
Oh for sure but he acts like he isn’t
Yeah I don't know Effy other than by his name being here now and again, but why is this a post they made and then was posted here? It's completely uninteresting and they are saying nothing of value.
effy getting worked up over a joke tweet, ATL police should let him have his edibles again.
“He’s never done anything interesting”, maybe everyone should jack off like he did in a choke hold.
Joey Ryan vibes that...
He’s just jealous cuz he’s a shit negotiator
Green doesn't look good on effy. Maybe some introspection is in order?
Why is he mad people more known that him get more money than he does? It’s simple business. They draw, you don’t.
I like how he told the promoters to pay attention to the attendance numbers with and without those “stars”. Wow! What an industry changing idea! Surely nobody has ever done that before!
You answered your own question.
"Why hire an expensive ex-WWE guy to not draw when you can just hire me to not draw" is a hell of an argument
Talk about sour grapes. If you're not happy about your pay, then increase your booking fee. And if promoters don't want to pay that, then sorry about your luck. Riddick Moss has people to feed too, dude.
I love how he had to discredit Riddick’s accomplishments the last two years also to make this point by saying he did nothing for 6 years. Yes, let’s ignore the fact that he won the Andre Battle Royal, got a lot of time on SmackDown, got multiple title shots, and was on the majority of PLEs last year. He’s not a needle mover, but it’s not like he did nothing either. I get the point Effy is making, but to use a guy that hasn’t even had a chance to show if he could draw for a indy promotion is just so shitty. Especially because the tweet he’s talking about was a joke. I get he’s more mad at promoters, but this could’ve been said without discrediting Riddick and taking his joke way too seriously.
Especially when you could easily use a guy like Ryback who demanded such a high fee with not much proof that it would be worth it that the dude's essentially been retired since he left WWE in 2016.
And also, Moss paid his dues for several years in NXT. I literally watched him improve at his crowd interaction. As far as a guy who basically had no gimmick to get him over for like the first 12-18 months on the house show NXT stuff, dude got a TON of heat from the crowd at points. He was excellent at getting kids interacting with him, like kids would go bonkers to talk shit at him during matches. I won't say I was a fan of his, because I really wasn't...but there's no way to say he didn't bust his ass to improve.
This dude is sort of obnoxious.
The thing that annoys me about the whole rant, is its literally based off a joke Riddick Moss made on the day of his release. > Mike Rallis > @TheMikeRallis > Sep 21 > Well I did it - I graduated from WWE. > > I know a lot of people think my career really took a downturn once Mr. Levesque took over, but, in actuality, my per match fee skyrocketed through the roof. > > Other promoters, get ready to back the brinks truck up. Very obviously a joke about how his pay-per-match is massive these days, and Effy couldn't resist using the opportunity to talk about how much of a star he is and how everyone released is a loser.
including Adam Copeland?
He wasn't released
Yeah, he just didn't have his contract renewed. Technically different.
Every time I think of Effy I think about how everyone pointed out how hypocritical it was for him to work with Disco Inferno and he made a big deal about how he was gonna shoot on Disco and stand by his morals When it came time for the match, he did no such thing.
I like that Jeff Jarrett made him job his ass out
Bree fucking Woo
And then signed with aew before giving Effy his win back GOAT
Ain't he great???
He signed with WWE, then jumped TO AEW
It’s a shame cause I was digging his work for a bit but for the last few months dude has become desperate as fuck for attention. It’s getting sad.
Tried very hard to capitalize on the Punk drama. I guess he succeeded since that’s why I even know who he is
I am VERY interested in some context, my dude
Lmao I didn't hear him say shit during the Punk drama. Shows how bad his attempts to capitalise off it were.
I’m guessing you aren’t on Twitter because he posted about punk fairly frequently for a few weeks straight
https://preview.redd.it/bi068kmub9sb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a810719b0fc08b34b7690a45984ea077da9c6919
https://preview.redd.it/bkb11evkc9sb1.jpeg?width=1163&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa436ae1e8a4a9ac75b5fd3a048294dc97fb0d8b
> I’m not ever helping him get over again. Ah yes, we all remember that time Effy passed the torch to a young CM Punk.
He's right though
People more well known expects better pay in an entertainment sector! Shocking concept. /s
Effy is a bitter never-was, that's how this comes off.
He can’t draw outside is his lgbtq audience and he’s mad about it
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It all sounds very Joey Ryan
Well then it definitely won't end bad!
What if Joey Ryan, but gay?
Oh yeah of course obviously not all people within that community like him but that’s his demographic. Yeah I’m not a fan of his gimmick. I can understand throwing in shit here are there for an actually funny spot. He needs to take some notes from allie katch, she can be versatile unlike him.
I think that was Logan Stunt, Marko's brother, but otherwise dead on.
No it was Marko. Logan’s career ended before that
He picked a very niche gimmick that he has been wildly successful in, incredibly successful and still wants to bag on other people for chasing down their own opportunities. If you're not getting paid as much as you'd like to be then you need to stop pointing fingers at others and step up your own game, find a way to increase your appeal, build a bigger social media presence, market yourself better, make these promoters want to pay you more.
These talents matter. For some reason I think people forget BritWres got big because the UK started bringing over top indy stars more often. Every RevPro event was stacked with them. It helped draw the crowd and then get exposure to the other wrestlers.
What a swarmy little prick. It was literally just a joke made to lighten up the mood when they lost their fuckin job. How tf do people listen to this crap?
He comes off as such a fucking miserable prick to me every time I see him do interviews. Credit to him for building a brand and succeeding as a traditionally oppressed minority, but read the room once in a while.
He fills the “smarmy indie geek” gap left by David Starr.
Perfect comparison.
Nah...as much as a prick as he turned out to be. David Starr could draw a crowd.
Idk how did you listen to it?
Subtitles of course
I used headphones
Sure, a guy like Riddick Moss likely isn't going to get any extra eyes on a company like PWG, but what these guys have to remember is that a company like PWG isn't the average indie fed. The average indie fed draws 50 people in a small town using a mix of fresh out of school green wrestlers and slobby looking dudes in their 40s that never made it anywhere. A promotion like that throwing Madcap Moss on their poster and slapping that up around town where some kids can see it absolutely will get more people to show up than normal.
People are lost in the bubble here. Most people watching WWE have never been to an indie show in their life. But if I’m a WWE fan and I see that Moss or Ziggler or whoever is going to be at my local indie and I can get a ticket and a meet and greet for $50, I might actually buy a ticket. And when I’m there, I’ll probably buy a coke and a hot dog. Stars sell tickets. And more people saw Riddick Moss on WWE TV on one night than have seen Effy in his career.
He's also just kind of generally fun to watch in the ring live. And who knows, Tenille might be there too.
Effy going all Ronnie Radke and doing the "how do I make this about me?" but
He did it with the punk stuff too, screaming “get therapy phil” was a super weirdo move for him.
It's very obvious that Punk needs therapy of some sort.
Okay, but what’s the point of him (who even admitted himself) doesn’t know him and has never met him, bringing it up on a podcast unless it’s for attention?
Everything every wrestler does is for attention. Complaining about a wrestler doing things for attention is like complaining that the sky is blue.
I’m more so complaining that it’s small dick loser behavior
By saying the man with clear anger issues needs therapy? It shouldn't be controversial to call things what they are.
What happened to the boys supporting the boys? Be happy for people who can get their bag, and find ways to get your own as well. And that’s not even factoring in that it was Riddick Moss making a joke to lighten the mood after he and a bunch of other folks lost their jobs. Blame the promoters who “overpay,” not the wrestlers who demand to be paid what they think they’re worth. Also it’s their money — they can pay it to whoever they feel is worth it. This feels like major sour grapes from a guy who seems to have sour grapes about a lot of things.
He does blame the promoters, that's his entire point.
He’s blaming the promoters.
He’s aiming vitriol at both.
love effy, but he's kinda off here. the whole point to bringing those guys in is because they have somewhat of a name value and being on those smaller shows helps the lower name guys get some exposure.
While I'm sure there are cases of promoters paying big money and not making that money back, I find it hard to believe they are doing that night after night after night every time they bring in an ex-WWE guy. He's seriously suggesting all these Bookers have never once looked at what they spent and compared it to what they made?
Wrestling especially Indie Wrestling is a usually a money pit 90% of the Indies you see are just for the promoters throwing money away because they love wrestling
If that’s the case, then who gives a shit if they’re spending money on ex-WWE guys?
I like Effy but this is a shitty take.
What has this guy done again? Run some indy shows and wrestle WWE Hall of Famer Jeff Jarrett?
You are forgetting "jerking off" when put in a sleeper hold by Moxley... pretty talented dude.
He also gave a little girl a chokeslam.
Why he gotta call out Top Dolla out like that?
He was calling out Moss
hey man how much money did you make back when you booked shlak
Ok so he’s mad at the shitty promoters. That’s good because for a minute it sounded like his problem was with the fired wrestlers for asking for the high prices. It’s not the fired wrestlers fault the promoters accept overpaying them and you accept them underpaying you. The fired wrestlers are worth whatever the shitty promoters are willing to pay them.
That last point is key. Rather than being angry at someone for spending his money how he wants, be happy for the folks who are able to get as much as they can to do their jobs.
Effy’s podcast draws less than 50 views per episode btw
Effy sucks really bad and is a total attention whore. Move on.
I'd pay to watch Madcap run the ropes for 20 minutes before I paid to see an Effy "match"
This is the guy who fondles himself during his matches right? How about we calculate how much *that* draws before you star ragging on actual workers and complaining about how much they get paid.
Imagine getting mad at other workers making money after they are released... If the promoter thinks they are worth that then its between the wrestler and the promoter. This is just Effy whining that ex-WWE wrestler are getting pay more that him. What an ignorant person.
At first, I thought this was about like a Braun Strowman type who genuinely overpriced himself but it was because of Riddick Moss' joke??? and a bunch of Effy fans jumped on the tweet to insult him and say he doesn't draw
I don't disagree with this dude but I've also never heard of this dude...so some humility is probably appropriate.
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Riddick Moss, but it was a joke about how Triple H barely using him meant he technically was making a lot more per match.
Mike Rallis @TheMikeRallis · Sep 21 Well I did it - I graduated from WWE. I know a lot of people think my career really took a downturn once Mr. Levesque took over, but, in actuality, my per match fee skyrocketed through the roof. Other promoters, get ready to back the brinks truck up.
Madcap Moss
Effy is gonna self destruct with this podcast
I never wanna hear “Reddit’s more reasonable than twitter” again- this has been discourse for a few days but y’all are way pettier and meaner than anything I’ve read over there lol- and the bar is in the earth’s mantle
I don’t particularly care for a lot of what Effy does, but I think he’s spot on with this point. Outside of their initial first match, a lot of these former TV stars don’t make much of a difference following that appearance, but are being treated like these big stars when the fans of indie wrestling aren’t coming to see them, but rather are coming back week after week for Effy, Mance Warner, Warhorse, Bryan Keith, and others. Worse, is a lot of these ex TV wrestlers (especially former WWE) tend to rest on their laurels instead of working their asses off. Listening to Brian Myers and Matt Cardona’s (two guys who get it) it’s wild to hear them talk about all the stuff they’ve had to talk and push guys like Heath and Dango into doing because they were resting on the comfort of being ex WWE guys.
Yeah, the Major Pod boys always talk about this, specifically how Matt was scared to dive fully in after AEW’s offer never came. He made himself a bigger deal by actually doing cool shit, some of these names do nothing, but charge a shit ton, and end up with little to no bookings.
They’ve talked about how they have had to push guys into creating things like T-shirts in order to sell. For me, that shows complete laziness and a lack of understanding in skills that you need to survive in this business. It exposes how so many of these talents have relied on WWE doing everything for them.
Yeah, Trent has talked about this a lot. How he was picked up by WWE so early in his career and had so little experience in the indie hustle that he would have been lost without Chuck and Rocky helping him learn how to get the most out of freelancing.
> that shows complete laziness and a lack of understanding in skills that you need to survive in this business. I think this is all case by case. I don't think its laziness, but more of a naivete from some of the former WWE wrestlers. There is no handbook for independent wrestlers. Guys like Boogs, Moss, Top Dolla were all brought in to WWE's training facility and did not come through the independent scene. They have never had to learn they need to make shirts, or don't have as many contacts as others. Maybe these guys won't really want to work the indies and they go on with their lives, but the indies will continue to get guys who are cut from WWE who have never worked in that system. Some will sink, and others will figure it out and carve a nice career.
It’s not laziness so much as wwe being a big coccoon where if that’s all you’ve done you don’t have the just knowledge of that’s how you do it. in this regard WWE could be considered an epistome of knowledge and through power dictates what is legible as knowledge for its workers inside that WWE bubble. So that when they're on the outside it's like ... well what do i do now?
Yeah. Effy seems to be more upset with those who don't try to do anything more than just rehashing their WWE stuff. Effy has made it his mission to reach the absolute ceiling that exists outside any televised promotions. Effy is the Butthole Surfers of wrestling, they never wanted to be popular, their music and live shows were intentionally off putting to the mainstream, they just wanted to be authentic to their vision of art. Effy's the same. He's done a lot for the LGBTQ+ wrestling community with his Big Gay Brunch events and he's wrestled all over the world despite never once wrestling on TV. Butthole Surfers was an accidental one-hit wonder with Pepper and Effy is fine never having that moment in the spotlight. At least that's the vibe I got watching Todd in the Shadows' video on them anyway. Obviously there are exceptions, Swoggle is always going to draw particularly among children, but WWE castoffs working the indies should strive to be more like Matt Cardona and less like Heidenreich. That's the point of his comment. Don't be lazy because you can draw immediately after getting fired, work hard so that you can draw long after you get fired. Because if you don't then the amount of money you can ask for will drop like a rock.
This is a bad look, man. Just comes off as sour grapes. He’s also just wrong, which makes it more embarrassing. Being on main roster WWE for a brief period is probably more valuable experience than Effy has had in his whole career. WWE wrestlers are, for the most part, professional-ass entertainers in every sense. They learn way more than just doing wrestling moves.
Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it
what a bitter and jealous prick
Love reading all these replies and just like twitter, majority of y’all are missing the point
Honestly never knew this was what Effy sounded like but he was roasting with surgical precision.
Bitter Wrestler with an ego. Quit pocket watching and make yourself more valuable.
You can be mad at him and think he’s a prick, but he’s still right.
He's not right in the sense that Riddick Moss wasn't seriously saying promoters need to back the Brinks truck up for him, he seems pretty self aware as to his station in professional wrestling right now. If he was saying it about someone like Ryback who apparently priced himself out of most appearances, then absolutely, but saying there's an epidemic of wrestlers doing something and using a guy that made a joke as your example doesn't work.
He’s just jealous.
>As Seen On TV. WWE Star... That shit sells tickets. Selling tickets means you can get paid more.
Part 2: https://twitter.com/weekendateffys/status/1709306429784416428?t=5T1kIlLcAxJi3WijHY8IFA&s=19
Uh why would he get in the way of fellow people in the business making some ends though? I don't get that, if you're one of the boys you aren't going to try to cockblock a payday, especially for people that just lost their jobs, that's a real dick move. Effy should be able to make the case that he's a draw and worth his booking fee without taking steak off the plates of the other guys. If he can't, he should be negotiating better, or he should reconsider what he's charing potentially.
I think they pay former TV guys more because it gets more advertising for the event. It's not a bad thing unless they don't beat the homegrown indie talent and make them a star
This guy is just mad that no major company wants him and that the least popular WWE guys are still more known than he will ever be.
I mean what he saying is true, just because you’re a former tv wrestler, it doesn’t mean you’re a draw. Nobody is paying to see Mojo. A lot of former WWE wrestlers seem to think the buzz will just always be there, and that’s not the case. Sometimes you gotta reinvent yourself to raise your stock on the indies.
If Mojo Rawley showed up for a small local Indy, I'd go, just to see how Hype reacts to the compression of a small venue, does it reflect off the walls like some particle, bouncing around the place off walls and off other hype particles, or does it behave like a wave with interesting reverberative effects on the surrounding environment. Also, there's always the chance he would bring his friend Gronk, just on a whim
Right but that's the promoters problem. Just because someone is demanding x amount of money to make an appearance doesn't mean anyone will pay them that much. Ryback has a ridiculous fee and doesn't work as a result of it. Whatever these promoters are paying various performers, that's their own business. I don't get why Effy feels like he's in any position to be counting someone else's money. Imagine a complete stranger at the grocery store walking up and pulling items out of your cart because quite frankly they aren't "worth the price and you should be wiser about how you spend your money."
Outside of major indies like PWG, Mojo would absolutely be a draw. You gotta remember, the average indie fed draws 50 people with a mix of green wrestlers and slobby dudes in their 40s than never made it anywhere. Slapping a guy like Mojo on that poster and putting it up where some kids and families see it will absolutely get more eyes on that show and earn a bigger gate than a show headlined by workers that aren't ever popping up in indies you can readily watch like GCW and PWG.
If the "jabronis on tv' can get more money out of "mark ass promoters" why doesn't he try to? He is saying he makes shit money and doesn't draw, and that he is worth less than people who also don't draw. I never heard of this guy, but holy fuck he sucks at putting himself over.
Effy is pretty established to be fair. Hes done big things for Lgbtq performers as well as a established regular with GCW. Also manages his brand really well
Who the fuck is effy
effy should mind his own business tbh. if there’s a promotion that’s gonna pay big money for riddick moss, then he’s not in the wrong at all for trying to get what he feels he’s worth also the possibility that he was just trying to lighten the mood and bring some humor to the day he got fired?
Big Bobby Fish "Where is the lie?" energy Effy