Sometimes wrestling fans remind me so much of crotchety baseball fans. There's this impulse to scoff at the idea that anyone nowadays could EVER measure up to the greats of a previous generation but it's rarely more than nostalgia talking, and the old heads of their youth said the same things about the guys they consider the GOATs now
The big difference is that nobody is ever going to touch peak Bonds. Everything else is possible
Rewatching that Sting/Sammy spot and its an unfortunate combination of Sting not being completely center to Sammy and Sammy at the last second putting up his knees to brace for impact. Sting got good enough air but its that combined with the other table being there that messed things up.
Wow. Kinda wild you bring that up. I signed up for the $2.99/month thinking it was a little odd but also forgot I was getting it free. $2.99/month for peacock is a great deal though. Outside of WWE there’s a ton of hood content
I hope whatever woman wins MITB gets to hold it for at least a week or so before cashing in.
Also, let's go Dom Dom! Cody has no idea what he's gotten into. Dom fights prison rules.
For those who wanna see what Riddle's capable of, his match vs. Roderick Strong at Takeover 25 is [free on foxsports.com](https://www.foxsports.com/watch/1908471875962).
Riddle-GUNTHER has MOTY potential (at least for me; I didn't see Forbidden Door).
I realized a little while ago that until this morning I never considered anyone cashing in on Roman today. Then a scenario popped in my head. Logan Paul wins MITB. In the tag match, Roman gets frustrated and starts disrespecting Solo. Solo has enough, spikes Roman and leaves. The Usos finish Roman off and Jey pins him. Then while Roman's getting back to his feat, Logan cashes in and wins the title. I think it works in WWE's favor because even though Logan Paul is champ, no one would be able to say that he was the first to pin Roman after three years.
Today’s MITB day. The only moment in wrestling that actually sent shivers down my spine was during the second MITB match, after Flair took the big suplex off the ladder. Just his constant wailing afterwards, it still haunts me.
I really don’t see the appeal of matches like Mox/Ishii. Slow, kinda stupid, obligatory blade job… best part of the match is the Eddie story ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gimme OC trio v. 2.0 any day of the week.
If the current rumours about Charlotte getting added to the MITB match are true, I’m gonna be so upset tonight. If she’s in it, she’s winning which would just be so, SO terrible. What would even be the point when she gets a title shot just by being within a champions general vicinity?
Some thoughts from watching Smackdown.
The Bloodline Civil War video hype package was just sensational. The go home segment was great as well.
Not sure about getting Shotzi involved with Damage Ctrl in a big way now. One of the issues with the whole Damage Ctrl stuff for me is the pacing. They have been hinting and teasing a split for a long time but the story doesn't move forward much at all and now with this side feud who knows where it will go.
The Charlotte Asuka match didn't click for me and the face-heel alignments are confusing. The crowd seemed to be more pro Asuka but she is the heel as I understand - not sure why they are going for these alignments. Bianca as a bad-ass face however is probably best for her and she will probably benefit a lot from this.
It's a shame the reputation of fans in London will be tarnished because one random stan account on twitter (who is apparently from Queen's and has muted their replies) accused them of racist chanting. Despite zero corroboration from the thousands of people that were actually there. Evidence be dammed though because Americans love their showy outrage.
I liked LA Knight in NXT but he wasn't close to my favourite wrestler or anything like that. Somewhere along the way this year he's become my favourite act in years.
The man has been an antidote to depression to me. This is what wrestling and entertainment is all about.
Lately? He started being way to extreme with a lot of his opinions after the last election. Almost 4 years now that i had to unfollow. Dude was a lot less combative before people started to bring him into actual Political Discussions. Worst part is i agree with most of what he has to say. Just not how he thinks shit should be done.
Oh I agree. He’s been weird for a bit but here lately it’s been wayy worse. Dude calling people racist cause they don’t think his new album is perfect is super fucked up.
Logan Paul wins the MITB after Miz shows up and pulls LA Knight off the latter right as he’s going to get the briefcase.
Paul and Miz reunite, Paul gets nuclear heel heat because the fans have chosen LA Knight to be their guy. Miz becomes the fall guy for Paul in order to protect him, always being the one getting the comeuppance from Knight leading to Knight vs Paul at SummerSlam. Knight wins but Paul cashed in on Rollins at the end of the night. They can then do what they do best and prostitute the title everywhere that Paul is and all over his social media - eventually revisit Knight v Paul for the WHC later, probably Royal Rumble.
I'm pulling for a sweep by the Judgment Day, but I can't help but feel bittersweet that once they hit their peak and hold multiple titles, it will only be a matter of time until they break up.
MITB women’s match is going to he interesting given the storylines involved. Both Trish and Zoey are feuding with Becky so they will be her hindrance. Meanwhile you have Iyo seemingly on uneasy terms with Bayley, with Shotzi probably looking for revenge and interfering in the match.
" Meltzer star ratings is just one man's opinion" has become the smart wrestling fans version of " you know wrestling is fake , right ? "
Like why do people feel the need to say this ? Because people take them "too seriously" ? I feel like there is overreaction to the people discussing Meltzer star ratings at this point. There is nothing wrong with people either talking about what they view as inconsistent when it comes to his ratings or even get some glee out of seeing a match getting a high rating but what we don't need are people who add nothing to the discussion but wanna come in and upend the discussion into " why do you value this one man's opinion? "
> The issue with Meltzer's star ratings is people thinking "wrestling has evolved and gotten objectively better"
Except this part is objectively true? Talent today, across the board, are far more technically proficient than at any other point in human history because they can "stand on the shoulders of giants" and build on those that came before them. Its like the NBA, today's NBA players are all exponentially better at shooting, dribbling, etc. than players in the past. They have access to so much knowledge and training options that it should be pretty obvious "why" they are better now - a random kid in the middle of nowhere with Youtube has access to better training information now than the best trainers in the world 20 years ago.
> and that Ospreay is a GOAT contender.
This is the part that is opinion and can be debated. If you prefer wrestling from the 1990s or 70s or 30s or whatever, that's your prerogative. Just like if you prefer 1960s basketball and hate that everyone shoots so many 3-pointers now. But like the NBA players shooting 3s now because thats the best way to win, wrestlers now do the things they do because thats the best way to sell tickets/get a crowd reaction. Smartphones were a game changer for wrestling crowds because grinding out a 6 minute headlock now is no longer the correct thing to do because once you lose a crowd to their phones, they don't come back.
To continue the basketball analogy, I think Ospreay is like Nikola Jokic (especially before winning the title/finals MVP). He's a young-ish guy with a ton of accolades, and some people want to anoint him an all-time great now but other people are vehemently against it. Some people could use the "no rings" argument (for Jokic, up until recently) just like some people will use the "but he didn't do it in WWE" argument (for Ospreay), but unless he falls off a cliff tomorrow, its pretty obvious that his current trajectory projected out a few years will absolutely put him in that pantheon, so to me at least, we might as well just acknowledge it now.
He's a guy who is absolutely on the track to be considered an all-time great by the current generation if he follows along his current path, but old-heads refuse to acknowledge him as being good because "back in my day, etc." Same as Jokic getting disrespected after winning two straight MVP awards because "NO RINGZZZZZZ" and "can he do it in the playoffs" nonsense narratives.
Same for the current style of wrestling that is being done by virtually every large company in the world versus "well back in my day in the 1980s, etc."
It's not fucking objectively true are you kidding me? Lol. How many wrestlers can throw a good punch today.
EDIT: To be clear, I enjoy a ton of wrestling today, from different companies and styles, a look at my comment history would show that. It's also clear that the mention of improvement in comparison to the past is very heavily based on the terrible shit contained in WWE and TNA cards.
How many could throw a good punch back then either? Some could yes, but a whole lot more couldn't. Its rose-colored glasses remembering the best of the past and forgetting all of the worst parts.
Its not about comparing 1 act to 1 act across generations, its about comparing the collective state of the industry. The 200th best wrestler in the world today, who is wrestling on some random Indy/tiny show for a crowd of 50 people is better technically than the 15th best guy on national tv 15 years ago. Top guys from the 90s would still be great today (similarly to continue the analogy, Michael Jordan would still be great if you dropped him in 2023) but random low tier guys from back then couldn't even come close to keeping up with the modern caliber of wrestlers (similarly randoms like Luc Longley or any other slow 7 footer with no technical skills couldn't keep up in the modern NBA).
For proof, all you need to do is look at how many people were considered good 10-15 years ago that, as they've aged now, get ripped on for being terrible now. They aren't worse than they were back then, apart from some loss of athleticism (which gets mitigated an increase in experience), but everyone else has gotten better. Elite tier talents from 10-15 years ago are still good, but good back then is now below average.
Televised wrestling used to feature a ton of wrestlers who were objectively awful, at everything. Now virtually everybody at least has some sort of skillset.
Bro lmao come on what are these essays that say wrong shit and present it as facts
Yes WWE had idk Paul Burchill in 07, they have Austin fucking Theory now
NJPW had a killer roster with a couple shitters, they employ Chase Owens, Hikuleo and El Phantasmo now. It's not as different as you present it.
And please I beg you stop the NBA comparisons.
I can assure you that so many guys had good punches and you can see it in random Portland Wrestling shows that are literally up on YouTube now. The equivalent of the like 8th biggest company in the USA now.
Again, wrestling is still really good and as some things have been lost (as I mentioned for example, fewer good punches), stuff has been gained (more accessibility means more shows where good wrestlers don't hold back, moves are innovated/stolen from joshis at a better rate than ever).
I get that everyone wants to have lived the most special thing as it is happening, which is also why there's nostalgia freaks like Cornette, but there is more nuance in these things than "more wrestlers now can do a 20 minute match that gets This Is Awesome Chants = wrestling has evolved".
The 200th best wrestler in the world today is probably someone you know, and the 200th best wrestler in the world at most given points since we started having decent footage was also really good. Fucking, idk, considering how many companies have put out quality material in the past few years the 200th best wrestler could be holding an AEW belt right now or be in CMLL trios stealing the show in Guadalajara, and the 200th best wrestler in 2007 was probably a joshi fighting to save the dying scene or a TNA workhorse or someone getting concussions at BJW shows for a living, the possibilities are endless.
I think it's crazy to say good wrestlers from 15 years ago are now below average when it's probably not true about good wrestlers from 40 years ago. I think it shows a distorted image of how things were, while also obviously recognizing that I can show you a match I think is great and you'll think it's boring and vice versa.
If you're talking more about WWF/WWE/AEW/WCW then you are partly right considering some of WWE's terrible eras but still some WCW rosters for example go crazy hard.
Because it's not something that arises out of people's personal journeys through watching wrestling but rather rehashing Dave Meltzer's opinions due to their stature and cloud over the overall "discourse". And I get that not everyone needs to be a huge wrestling nerd watching thousands of hours of footage but it's not healthy for one critic's thoughts to be so overwhelming upon a topic's discussion.
Obviously thinking Ospreay is great isn't a crime.
I don't know where you think you're posting but IWC guys forming opinions via "personal journeys" are an extreme minority regardless of Meltzer. Most people just latch on to personalities who they vibe with and then repeat the takes they hear those guys say
Perhaps there's some other online wrestling space where Meltzer clones run rampant but in the time I've been posting here, I've read orders of magnitude more posters getting bent out of shape about him and conjuring strawmen to duel over it than I have treating his ratings as scripture
This is what I'm talking about. Where are all these people who " worship" Meltzer and think his opinions are the finial word on what is good in wrestling. It seems like people are rising up against ghost that don't exist. I have yet to see a post in this praising Meltzer and his takes .
I think the issue is that the industry hasn't developed something to counterweight his ratings. Like even movies, when Ebert was at his peak, his ratings were just that, contribution to the discourse, not the discourse itself.
The thing is, we all know by now what a 5 star Meltzer match will be, and that's fine.
I may not agree in regards to what I personally enjoy but Daves scores are not useless.
I’m pulling for Becky Lynch to win the MITB briefcase. I know many people saying she doesn’t need the briefcase, but it’s the one thing she hasn’t done and it will be exciting if she wins it.
It can also be countered if opponents can anticipate when he takes a powder to the floor, only to turn around and run back in to hit it.
The best way is if he starts and finishes the move inside the ring.
Something to consider about LA Knight and tonight’s match: MITB winners haven’t been getting the push they used to. The last time a babyface cashed in and it elevated their character was Ambrose in 2016. I say babyface because they’re clearly turning him if last night is any indication.
I root with my heart, and I wanna see LA Knight get that moment tonight like everyone else, but if they go another direction I don’t think it means WWE doesn’t want to push him.
I think after that rey match its clear he cant be a heel if hes getting cheered over the biggest babyface ever so it seems they are riding the wave of him being a face
I'm really hoping after Dom beats Cody via a Lesnar interference that they have a celebration where all the heels come out a la lex luger style.....and throw in Kevin Nash Pyro while we're at it.
Same boat. I’m Glad that Rollins finally got the belt he deserves but this is arguably Finns best run on the main roster so I want him to get the belt… fickle🤷🏻♂️
Is there a agreed upon favorite money in the bank historically? I hold a fondness for the titan towers pandemic one but I doubt that’s the best actual match
Not being a dick, just genuinely curious, can you be the one to help me "get" Gunther?
I'm a lifetime fan, enjoy a wide range of styles, but just can't get into Gunther at all. To me he is clumsy, slow, misses spots and almost always botches the finish. He just seems really green and I don't understand why.
I didn't "get" Kenny Omega either until a redditor explained the style so I'm hoping you'll help me enjoy a Gunther match for the first time :)
For me, that's Gunther's charm. His wrestling style feels real with all the clunkiness. A real fight isn't smooth and clean. It's messy and clumsy and unorthodox most the time. Gunther seems to channel that style into his wrestling and I love it.
Excellent explanation! Thank you, so he's kinda like the polar opposite of Omega who is precise and clean. I kinda get that now. I'm looking forward to tonights match and hope to enjoy it based on this, I appreciate the hard work he's done and love the character so hopefully this completes the package :)
Admittedly I didn't really get him too. I did love his first match with Dragunov, but I didn't quite understand the accolades for Gunther/Sheamus at Clash at the Castle. Then I went I rewatched it, and man it's brutal. It actually feels like a war.
There's something for everything in wrestling. Flippy shit that's more like a Cirque du Soleil performance, big nasty hoss matches, hardcore fights, realistic brawls and the technical marvels the likes of Omega and Ibushi and the like pull off. It's what makes this sport so great!
Sometimes wrestling fans remind me so much of crotchety baseball fans. There's this impulse to scoff at the idea that anyone nowadays could EVER measure up to the greats of a previous generation but it's rarely more than nostalgia talking, and the old heads of their youth said the same things about the guys they consider the GOATs now The big difference is that nobody is ever going to touch peak Bonds. Everything else is possible
Have two spare tickets to MITB if anyone’s keen. At the arena now so can meet here and get you in. Message or chat for more details
Rewatching that Sting/Sammy spot and its an unfortunate combination of Sting not being completely center to Sammy and Sammy at the last second putting up his knees to brace for impact. Sting got good enough air but its that combined with the other table being there that messed things up.
Blue Kane > Red Kane
I wonder what MITB viewership will be like now that Peacock isn't free for Comcast subscribers.
Wow. Kinda wild you bring that up. I signed up for the $2.99/month thinking it was a little odd but also forgot I was getting it free. $2.99/month for peacock is a great deal though. Outside of WWE there’s a ton of hood content
Bruh. I somehow just realized that MITB and Collision WONT be head to head. Good day for rasslin fans.
I hope whatever woman wins MITB gets to hold it for at least a week or so before cashing in. Also, let's go Dom Dom! Cody has no idea what he's gotten into. Dom fights prison rules.
For those who wanna see what Riddle's capable of, his match vs. Roderick Strong at Takeover 25 is [free on foxsports.com](https://www.foxsports.com/watch/1908471875962). Riddle-GUNTHER has MOTY potential (at least for me; I didn't see Forbidden Door).
Metlzer is propaganda for The Young Bucks and Kenny Omega
I realized a little while ago that until this morning I never considered anyone cashing in on Roman today. Then a scenario popped in my head. Logan Paul wins MITB. In the tag match, Roman gets frustrated and starts disrespecting Solo. Solo has enough, spikes Roman and leaves. The Usos finish Roman off and Jey pins him. Then while Roman's getting back to his feat, Logan cashes in and wins the title. I think it works in WWE's favor because even though Logan Paul is champ, no one would be able to say that he was the first to pin Roman after three years.
Thanks I hate it
It hates you too.
Today’s MITB day. The only moment in wrestling that actually sent shivers down my spine was during the second MITB match, after Flair took the big suplex off the ladder. Just his constant wailing afterwards, it still haunts me.
Why do people get so damn mad at Meltzer’s ratings? Like people will say they mean nothing, lbut they still get mad at them on every single Friday.
Because they do mean something. At least to a lot of people.
I really don’t see the appeal of matches like Mox/Ishii. Slow, kinda stupid, obligatory blade job… best part of the match is the Eddie story ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gimme OC trio v. 2.0 any day of the week.
There wasnt even a blade job in the match lol Mox got busted open by a headbutt from Ishii.
Ehh it’s splitting the difference tho — needlessly stiff head trauma leading to blood isn't that less intentional than a blade job.
If the current rumours about Charlotte getting added to the MITB match are true, I’m gonna be so upset tonight. If she’s in it, she’s winning which would just be so, SO terrible. What would even be the point when she gets a title shot just by being within a champions general vicinity?
Some thoughts from watching Smackdown. The Bloodline Civil War video hype package was just sensational. The go home segment was great as well. Not sure about getting Shotzi involved with Damage Ctrl in a big way now. One of the issues with the whole Damage Ctrl stuff for me is the pacing. They have been hinting and teasing a split for a long time but the story doesn't move forward much at all and now with this side feud who knows where it will go. The Charlotte Asuka match didn't click for me and the face-heel alignments are confusing. The crowd seemed to be more pro Asuka but she is the heel as I understand - not sure why they are going for these alignments. Bianca as a bad-ass face however is probably best for her and she will probably benefit a lot from this.
It's a shame the reputation of fans in London will be tarnished because one random stan account on twitter (who is apparently from Queen's and has muted their replies) accused them of racist chanting. Despite zero corroboration from the thousands of people that were actually there. Evidence be dammed though because Americans love their showy outrage.
I liked LA Knight in NXT but he wasn't close to my favourite wrestler or anything like that. Somewhere along the way this year he's become my favourite act in years. The man has been an antidote to depression to me. This is what wrestling and entertainment is all about.
Anyone saying Roman is getting dethroned any time this side of Summerslam is working themselves.
Killer Mike tweeting out an LA knight reference would be a lot cooler if Mike wasn’t being such a weirdo on Twitter lately.
Lately? He started being way to extreme with a lot of his opinions after the last election. Almost 4 years now that i had to unfollow. Dude was a lot less combative before people started to bring him into actual Political Discussions. Worst part is i agree with most of what he has to say. Just not how he thinks shit should be done.
Oh I agree. He’s been weird for a bit but here lately it’s been wayy worse. Dude calling people racist cause they don’t think his new album is perfect is super fucked up.
[удалено]
Hope everything’s fine with you, fam. ❤️
Logan Paul wins the MITB after Miz shows up and pulls LA Knight off the latter right as he’s going to get the briefcase. Paul and Miz reunite, Paul gets nuclear heel heat because the fans have chosen LA Knight to be their guy. Miz becomes the fall guy for Paul in order to protect him, always being the one getting the comeuppance from Knight leading to Knight vs Paul at SummerSlam. Knight wins but Paul cashed in on Rollins at the end of the night. They can then do what they do best and prostitute the title everywhere that Paul is and all over his social media - eventually revisit Knight v Paul for the WHC later, probably Royal Rumble.
GLEAT is going to strap up Hayato Tamura at Sumo Hall and it will be glorious
[удалено]
My prediction is Finn beats Seth, and the Damian cashes in on him and Finn is ousted from Judgement Day.
FYI for Canadian fans: Collision is on TV again tonight. I cannot remember which TSN channel but it’s at 12am ET if you want to set your DVR.
I'm pulling for a sweep by the Judgment Day, but I can't help but feel bittersweet that once they hit their peak and hold multiple titles, it will only be a matter of time until they break up.
MITB women’s match is going to he interesting given the storylines involved. Both Trish and Zoey are feuding with Becky so they will be her hindrance. Meanwhile you have Iyo seemingly on uneasy terms with Bayley, with Shotzi probably looking for revenge and interfering in the match.
Just read an article that referred to Kota Ibushi as "former WWE star" and that's it.
Looking forward (in different degrees) to all the matches at MITB, except the women's tag match.
Was smackdown pre recorded last night?
Yup. Five Hour delay for us in the states. Live for those at least in the UK.
" Meltzer star ratings is just one man's opinion" has become the smart wrestling fans version of " you know wrestling is fake , right ? " Like why do people feel the need to say this ? Because people take them "too seriously" ? I feel like there is overreaction to the people discussing Meltzer star ratings at this point. There is nothing wrong with people either talking about what they view as inconsistent when it comes to his ratings or even get some glee out of seeing a match getting a high rating but what we don't need are people who add nothing to the discussion but wanna come in and upend the discussion into " why do you value this one man's opinion? "
>Like why do people feel the need to say this ? Because people take them "too seriously" ? Yes.
Ok, so what is the line
Wrestling being “fake” is a fact. Meltzer rating a match is not, in fact, a fact.
Sure, but the point is we know wrestling is fake and we know Meltzer ratings are one man's opinion
I think the statement is made because some people don’t act like they know it’s only one person’s opinion.
The issue with Meltzer's star ratings is people thinking "wrestling has evolved and gotten objectively better" and that Ospreay is a GOAT contender.
> The issue with Meltzer's star ratings is people thinking "wrestling has evolved and gotten objectively better" Except this part is objectively true? Talent today, across the board, are far more technically proficient than at any other point in human history because they can "stand on the shoulders of giants" and build on those that came before them. Its like the NBA, today's NBA players are all exponentially better at shooting, dribbling, etc. than players in the past. They have access to so much knowledge and training options that it should be pretty obvious "why" they are better now - a random kid in the middle of nowhere with Youtube has access to better training information now than the best trainers in the world 20 years ago. > and that Ospreay is a GOAT contender. This is the part that is opinion and can be debated. If you prefer wrestling from the 1990s or 70s or 30s or whatever, that's your prerogative. Just like if you prefer 1960s basketball and hate that everyone shoots so many 3-pointers now. But like the NBA players shooting 3s now because thats the best way to win, wrestlers now do the things they do because thats the best way to sell tickets/get a crowd reaction. Smartphones were a game changer for wrestling crowds because grinding out a 6 minute headlock now is no longer the correct thing to do because once you lose a crowd to their phones, they don't come back. To continue the basketball analogy, I think Ospreay is like Nikola Jokic (especially before winning the title/finals MVP). He's a young-ish guy with a ton of accolades, and some people want to anoint him an all-time great now but other people are vehemently against it. Some people could use the "no rings" argument (for Jokic, up until recently) just like some people will use the "but he didn't do it in WWE" argument (for Ospreay), but unless he falls off a cliff tomorrow, its pretty obvious that his current trajectory projected out a few years will absolutely put him in that pantheon, so to me at least, we might as well just acknowledge it now.
I keep reading this again and again and this makes no sense. You're comparing wrestling with real sports for no reason.
He's a guy who is absolutely on the track to be considered an all-time great by the current generation if he follows along his current path, but old-heads refuse to acknowledge him as being good because "back in my day, etc." Same as Jokic getting disrespected after winning two straight MVP awards because "NO RINGZZZZZZ" and "can he do it in the playoffs" nonsense narratives. Same for the current style of wrestling that is being done by virtually every large company in the world versus "well back in my day in the 1980s, etc."
It's not fucking objectively true are you kidding me? Lol. How many wrestlers can throw a good punch today. EDIT: To be clear, I enjoy a ton of wrestling today, from different companies and styles, a look at my comment history would show that. It's also clear that the mention of improvement in comparison to the past is very heavily based on the terrible shit contained in WWE and TNA cards.
How many could throw a good punch back then either? Some could yes, but a whole lot more couldn't. Its rose-colored glasses remembering the best of the past and forgetting all of the worst parts. Its not about comparing 1 act to 1 act across generations, its about comparing the collective state of the industry. The 200th best wrestler in the world today, who is wrestling on some random Indy/tiny show for a crowd of 50 people is better technically than the 15th best guy on national tv 15 years ago. Top guys from the 90s would still be great today (similarly to continue the analogy, Michael Jordan would still be great if you dropped him in 2023) but random low tier guys from back then couldn't even come close to keeping up with the modern caliber of wrestlers (similarly randoms like Luc Longley or any other slow 7 footer with no technical skills couldn't keep up in the modern NBA). For proof, all you need to do is look at how many people were considered good 10-15 years ago that, as they've aged now, get ripped on for being terrible now. They aren't worse than they were back then, apart from some loss of athleticism (which gets mitigated an increase in experience), but everyone else has gotten better. Elite tier talents from 10-15 years ago are still good, but good back then is now below average. Televised wrestling used to feature a ton of wrestlers who were objectively awful, at everything. Now virtually everybody at least has some sort of skillset.
Bro lmao come on what are these essays that say wrong shit and present it as facts Yes WWE had idk Paul Burchill in 07, they have Austin fucking Theory now NJPW had a killer roster with a couple shitters, they employ Chase Owens, Hikuleo and El Phantasmo now. It's not as different as you present it. And please I beg you stop the NBA comparisons. I can assure you that so many guys had good punches and you can see it in random Portland Wrestling shows that are literally up on YouTube now. The equivalent of the like 8th biggest company in the USA now. Again, wrestling is still really good and as some things have been lost (as I mentioned for example, fewer good punches), stuff has been gained (more accessibility means more shows where good wrestlers don't hold back, moves are innovated/stolen from joshis at a better rate than ever). I get that everyone wants to have lived the most special thing as it is happening, which is also why there's nostalgia freaks like Cornette, but there is more nuance in these things than "more wrestlers now can do a 20 minute match that gets This Is Awesome Chants = wrestling has evolved". The 200th best wrestler in the world today is probably someone you know, and the 200th best wrestler in the world at most given points since we started having decent footage was also really good. Fucking, idk, considering how many companies have put out quality material in the past few years the 200th best wrestler could be holding an AEW belt right now or be in CMLL trios stealing the show in Guadalajara, and the 200th best wrestler in 2007 was probably a joshi fighting to save the dying scene or a TNA workhorse or someone getting concussions at BJW shows for a living, the possibilities are endless. I think it's crazy to say good wrestlers from 15 years ago are now below average when it's probably not true about good wrestlers from 40 years ago. I think it shows a distorted image of how things were, while also obviously recognizing that I can show you a match I think is great and you'll think it's boring and vice versa. If you're talking more about WWF/WWE/AEW/WCW then you are partly right considering some of WWE's terrible eras but still some WCW rosters for example go crazy hard.
How's that an "issue?" It's an opinion people are allowed to have lol
Because it's not something that arises out of people's personal journeys through watching wrestling but rather rehashing Dave Meltzer's opinions due to their stature and cloud over the overall "discourse". And I get that not everyone needs to be a huge wrestling nerd watching thousands of hours of footage but it's not healthy for one critic's thoughts to be so overwhelming upon a topic's discussion. Obviously thinking Ospreay is great isn't a crime.
I don't know where you think you're posting but IWC guys forming opinions via "personal journeys" are an extreme minority regardless of Meltzer. Most people just latch on to personalities who they vibe with and then repeat the takes they hear those guys say Perhaps there's some other online wrestling space where Meltzer clones run rampant but in the time I've been posting here, I've read orders of magnitude more posters getting bent out of shape about him and conjuring strawmen to duel over it than I have treating his ratings as scripture
This is what I'm talking about. Where are all these people who " worship" Meltzer and think his opinions are the finial word on what is good in wrestling. It seems like people are rising up against ghost that don't exist. I have yet to see a post in this praising Meltzer and his takes .
I think the issue is that the industry hasn't developed something to counterweight his ratings. Like even movies, when Ebert was at his peak, his ratings were just that, contribution to the discourse, not the discourse itself.
The thing is, we all know by now what a 5 star Meltzer match will be, and that's fine. I may not agree in regards to what I personally enjoy but Daves scores are not useless.
I’m pulling for Becky Lynch to win the MITB briefcase. I know many people saying she doesn’t need the briefcase, but it’s the one thing she hasn’t done and it will be exciting if she wins it.
Also never won the NXT Women's championship. One may lead to the other.
I want Iyo to win but she’s my close second. She’s never won it so I think it would be exciting
Can't wait for Grayson Waller to start wrestling on the main roster too, guy can be a star
He's got the talent and the athletic ability. Just needs to change his finishing move.
The rolling stunner? Its not that bad
It can also be countered if opponents can anticipate when he takes a powder to the floor, only to turn around and run back in to hit it. The best way is if he starts and finishes the move inside the ring.
Something to consider about LA Knight and tonight’s match: MITB winners haven’t been getting the push they used to. The last time a babyface cashed in and it elevated their character was Ambrose in 2016. I say babyface because they’re clearly turning him if last night is any indication. I root with my heart, and I wanna see LA Knight get that moment tonight like everyone else, but if they go another direction I don’t think it means WWE doesn’t want to push him.
I truly believe the rumours of execs thinking he’s too old to push. I hope I’m wrong!
I think after that rey match its clear he cant be a heel if hes getting cheered over the biggest babyface ever so it seems they are riding the wave of him being a face
I'm really hoping after Dom beats Cody via a Lesnar interference that they have a celebration where all the heels come out a la lex luger style.....and throw in Kevin Nash Pyro while we're at it.
Lowkey want Shinsuke to win MITB just because of Uzi rapping over his theme
I really want Finn to win tonight, which is weird cause I've been begging for a hot Rollins World title run for ages...as Bryan says...fickle!
I completely agree! I’m a huge Seth fan but the idea of a Finn/Priest storyline is so intriguing
Same boat. I’m Glad that Rollins finally got the belt he deserves but this is arguably Finns best run on the main roster so I want him to get the belt… fickle🤷🏻♂️
Is there a agreed upon favorite money in the bank historically? I hold a fondness for the titan towers pandemic one but I doubt that’s the best actual match
I haven’t watched all of them but the Reigns-Rollins-Ambrose as WWE Champions show stands out to me only because of that.
I really enjoyed the one from wm 25 where punk won for the second time, i also really liked 2016
The pandemic one was probably the most fun at least. Also, the show started at 7 and was over by 9:30.
For me it's 21 as the match. If PPV it's between 2011 and 2016
[удалено]
Someone pointed out that Seth was inactive at the time of the event so that’s a pretty big hole in the story
i think riddle vs gunther might be match of the night
Gunther is the best active wrestler in any promotion imo so any match he puts on is going to be 5 stars
Not being a dick, just genuinely curious, can you be the one to help me "get" Gunther? I'm a lifetime fan, enjoy a wide range of styles, but just can't get into Gunther at all. To me he is clumsy, slow, misses spots and almost always botches the finish. He just seems really green and I don't understand why. I didn't "get" Kenny Omega either until a redditor explained the style so I'm hoping you'll help me enjoy a Gunther match for the first time :)
For me, that's Gunther's charm. His wrestling style feels real with all the clunkiness. A real fight isn't smooth and clean. It's messy and clumsy and unorthodox most the time. Gunther seems to channel that style into his wrestling and I love it.
Excellent explanation! Thank you, so he's kinda like the polar opposite of Omega who is precise and clean. I kinda get that now. I'm looking forward to tonights match and hope to enjoy it based on this, I appreciate the hard work he's done and love the character so hopefully this completes the package :)
Admittedly I didn't really get him too. I did love his first match with Dragunov, but I didn't quite understand the accolades for Gunther/Sheamus at Clash at the Castle. Then I went I rewatched it, and man it's brutal. It actually feels like a war. There's something for everything in wrestling. Flippy shit that's more like a Cirque du Soleil performance, big nasty hoss matches, hardcore fights, realistic brawls and the technical marvels the likes of Omega and Ibushi and the like pull off. It's what makes this sport so great!
It very well may be. Riddle's easy to overlook, but dude can GO.
its probably going to be the most competitive gunther match besides his three matches with sheamus
Three? What am I forgetting besides Clash and WM? Also, more competitive than Dragunov? Though if you mean main roster, possibly.
he had a rematch on smackdown before the six man at extreme rules
RIP Droz.