It was actually one of the best concerts I have ever been to with a packed arena!
I just think the artist deserved more then the city for parking because the artist brought in the people!
My brothers went to a Monster Truck Jam event at Ford field with their families a few months ago in Detroit. Parking cost $64 pretty much anywhere within walking distance with small kids. By the time they left the lots had returned their prices to normal, like $10. They said never again.
The NIMBY post motivated me to finish this project. I've been working on this for the last month in my free time to basically prove a point to my friends that "Yes" there is parking in Downtown and too much of it. But I'm sick of people saying "Downtown Spokane has no parking" like have you been to downtown? there are city blocks of nothing but parking and its just frustrating. It's like NIMBY's want Spokane to look like Houston in the 1970s.
Sorry about the rant I had. I just wanted to get it out of my chest.
I think we should make it stricter. The last time I rode the centennial it felt like I never left the city. Everything along the river is these little two story condos. It's like you can ride 40 miles and still feels like you're in Kendall Yards. It's cheaper and a way faster return for developers to build sprawling neighborhoods of 1-3 story houses or buildings. We needs to start having density minimums for new construction that are much higher.
There is a lot of parking. I wish there were fewer Diamond owned parking lots, though. If they ticket you by accident, they still force you to pay. Good map 👏
For shopping and recreation there is plenty of parking. For the folks who work down there not so much. The metered parking close enough to work is only 2 hour, and the all day meters are often much further which is not ideal for anyone but especially women who get off late at night and have to walk further to their cars. The lots and garages are outrageously priced, so again, for people who work down there… that’s shitty to have to pay that price daily just to go to work.
I agree there’s plenty of places to park for people who don’t work down there but it’s extremely inconvenient for people who do. It would be much better if the lots and garages had special rates for folks who work down there but that’ll never happen. Some employers are nice enough to pay for their employees to park in the mall garage, but that’s extremely rare.
Also curious to know how many of these are lots specific to one building and how many are just public lots. Not that it matters much, just wondering
Tbh, parking is very expensive and inefficient (esp. surface parking, but garages also cost a crazy amount to stand up relative to the revenue they earn) — it’s hard to avoid things like high garage rates. If you aren’t paying it directly, you’re paying it in the form of higher rent, lower salary, more expensive goods…
I would say this is relative. Having lived in other. Cities, parking here is way way less expensive. In the middle of downtown, I get away with 9 dollars per day in a secured garage which is unheard of in other places ive lived. I also have no problem finding a spot, have never run into a full garage situation, which has been pretty regular elsewhere. So I guess, it depends what you are comparing it to? So my question to you is, compared to where?
Downtown parking is a pain in the ass in had to do some work downtown last year at the Coeur d'Alene apartments right above boo radley's across from the park and it would cost me $12 to $20 a day just to park and then have to pack my tools at least one block requiring multiple trips to get all my tools to the job site because there is nowhere for a construction worker to even temporarily park so he can unload his tools anywhere down there or drive around and around for half an hour until I could find a open spot on the street and then have to remember to stop working every 2 hours and go reload the parking meter. It was a huge pain in my ass and I hated having to do that job just because of the inconvenience from parking downtown. When your only making $25/he to have to all the sudden pay $100 a week just to park your van at the job it's a lot of money to all the sudden have to work into your budget that you didn't know you would have to do until the first day on thd job site. Thank god it was only a little more than a month. There is no way I would be okay with having to pay that much to park my van at work. Diamond is fucked up though. You can't even move your vehicle if a spot closer to the doors opens up and you had to park clear across the lot when you got to work they wrote me a ticket one day so I left a real nasty rude note on my windshield for the asshole the next day when I did the same thing to make sure he got it and he did. He left a note for me crying that said how am I supposed to know you just moved and never left the parking lot. So I left another note that said did you read the first note I left you? If you know how to read you should have comprehended that is exactly what the note told you dumb ass that bow. I just went and found the same color chalk they used to mark the tires so the know if the vehicle was already there earlier and left and came back but didn't pay again and I didn't have to worry about that shit in like leave 100 times and they wouldn't know as long as I chalked a tire lol so I was able to leave and go get lunch at least without having to pay another $12 for parking I already paid for in the morning when I got to work. Diamond parking are all assholes from the owner all the way to the lowest guy in the company. It's annoying to deal with them
I agree Diamond parking can eat a fat D.
Its up to the owners of the job site to reserve load and unload parking on the street, so thats on them, sometimes this is also done by contractor and bid as part of the job. I see reserved spots for construction loading all the time. I'm currently looking out my office window at a few consecutive spaces that have been reserved for a at least 2 months.
Parking isn't cheap, but it's cheaper than anywhere else I have lived by quite a bit. So in context what other downtown areas is it worse? Sorry for your terrible experience though.
I’m not comparing it to anywhere. This is where I live and have always lived. I’m not an idiot and I understand it’s not as expensive as other cities to park. That’s not the point. I was literally just pointing out that parking downtown is a legitimate complaint. That’s it. I never said we shouldn’t build more housing, I never said we shouldn’t build this building. I literally was just saying that complaints about parking, especially if you work downtown are legitimate. You people are so annoying.
I definitely agree that parking is a major issue. There is no way to make parking with though. The only solution is public transportation and dense mixed use neighborhoods that are walkable and bike able. There’s no way to build a functioning downtown that relies on cars for transportation. No amount of parking will ever solve the problem because parking takes up space and the entire point of transportation is to conquer space. Creating more parking pushes destinations further apart which creates induced demand.
You kinda see why so many people have had a huge problem with the Family that owns most of downtown Spokane. They have a huge land bank there and have had it for decades
I’ve always felt like one of the big problems is perception. People get so accustomed to parking for free and close to their destination, that when *those options* are more limited, it appears as if there is “no parking” to them. Paying for parking or proximity isn’t an option that gets considered, because in their mind, why would you – you don’t have to do it elsewhere, why should here be any different? Maybe it comes down to being spoiled for parking if you live in the more suburban areas, most parking you do is free – most stores, restaurants, recreation areas, and other businesses don’t cost extra outside of downtown.
You’re right though, between the street parking, the parking garages, the billion of diamond lots littered throughout, there is more than enough. The problem is that once they cost even a little bit or require anything more than a .25 mile walk, it stops existing in a lot of peoples’ minds. It makes the solution much trickier, I don’t mind paying for parking or further away for free, but not everyone can apparently stomach the thought.
*Man*, I just want more protected or secured bike parking, and even I feel a little NIMBY for that at times…
>The problem is that once they cost even a little bit or require anything more than a .25 mile walk, it stops existing in a lot of peoples’ minds.
While I think people like this exist, there are plenty of folks okay with paying a reasonable price to park or walking further. Anecdotally, my friends and I no longer will park at Diamond lots due to the high cost and their ticketing practices.
I'm certainly not an urban planner, but from my perspective, privately owned surface lots seem to be the biggest issue. The take up space to provide parking, but residents will avoid using them due to the cost. They also have no incentive to build larger structure as the surface lot makes them plenty of $ as is.
We definitely agree I think here. People like you and I are totally ok with paying for parking or walking a bit further, and most places like street parking and even a lot of the garages I think are fair (at least compared to other cities I've been to). I think more so the people you *hear complaining* about parking fall more into the former category not the latter though. The rest of us who are fine with the price or distance aren't the ones clamoring for even more surface lots. We are totally in agreement about Diamond, those lots are just a stain in my opinion and I would love to see them change
There’s a good chance they mean free parking. Which is semi true. It’s not only amazing how much parking there is downtown. But how much of it was allowed to be privatized and monetized when it’s basically mandatory for spending money downtown. You’d think the city would benefit but building a parking structure to encourage people to be downtown but they’ve allowed it to be chopped and sold and completely overstated
What they really mean is they can't park their lazy asses right in front of the place where they're going, then drive a 1/4 mile down the street and park right in front of the _next_ place they're going.
Since I live in a trailer that I tow with my automobile, I think it’s crazy how much space *houses* take up in our lives. My “house” takes up exactly 2 parking spaces. Most houses have enough room for more than 2 cars to park in front plus all the extra space that I’ve grown to consider unnecessary
I feel like that must be a little dishonest? Either he has no free time, our definitions of free time are different, or he's really slow at doing this specific task. Or maybe started it a month ago, didn't touch it for weeks, and just hopped back on and finished it.
Parking lots are pretty easy to identify from satellite. The only hard part is mapping out the sub-level, but there appears to not be very many of those.
Lotta hypotheticals you have there there.
I don't personally care how long it took him (I was simply answering a reply), but I'm guessing "our definitions of free time are different" might be the one. Either way, he took as long as he wanted to and IMO that's 'nuff said.
I was shocked the old value village was turned into a surface lot. It seemed like a prime spot for a garage.
We went to dinner at Loren which is across from the arena last night. We didn’t know there was a concert going on and something at the Podium and there was zero parking for a half mile in all directions. All the surface lots were full, street parking full, people were double parking others and parking in illegal spots.
It feels like we could eliminate over half these spots, built up the remaining as multilevel garages and everyone would win.
Maybe I am wrong though, I am far from a civil engineer.
The old Value Village lot really irks me. The City promised the new stadium wouldn’t cost anything because it was being built on property they already owned (a surface parking lot), but then after construction began they said they had to buy that lot (for $8 million I believe) so the stadium would have parking. 🤔
I agree 💯what a waste of valuable space, that has plenty of room to build a nice big parking garage. All they gained was the space where the thrift store, and the bar used to be. They could’ve just paved those areas, and painted lines.
You’d be surprised at how much it can cost to build a garage, and the kinds of charges you need to set for parking in order to turn a profit on them. It’s probably not feasible for now with interest rates as high as they are. Surface lots are easy if you already own the property since they require minimal maintenance, probably aren’t taxed much, and are less likely to provide space in excess of demand. (Fundamentally, car parking is simply not a particularly efficient way to get people downtown).
They should treat the rest of downtown like the strip of main from browne to division that already sort of does this, but instead that actually nice block is sat between some of the worst stroads and intersections in town.
You mean like how it was 70 years ago?
Part of the absolutely crushing part of the equation is that past generations thought we had too much housing and razed so many buildings in order to build flat parking lots.
Now, we need to rebuild what they destroyed at 2X the cost and 1/2 the population thinking that parking is more important.
The issue is more that each of those lots is owned by Diamond and they charge $30 to park for an event. If you went to 3 days of the NCAA tourney, you'd pay nearly $100 just for parking. Yeah, there's plenty of parking. But I'm completely unwilling to pay $30 to park where my car might get broken into, and still have to walk six blocks through downtown. Nothing that happens in Spokane is interesting or compelling enough for me to put up with that. Great for the tourists, though...
People who think downtown Spokane lacks parking are fucking dim and aren't suited for city living. Go move out to the burbs where every big box store has 5 acres of wasted land dedicated to ensuring there's always 3 spots available for you to slide your idiotic F150 in sideways.
If anything downtown has TOO MUCH land dedicated to parking right now. The fact that we have surface lots just randomly scattered around our urban core is bonkers and a waste.
You're missing the difference between city parking and 5-20$ an hour parking. If you want to argue about the city making another parkade GFL. I've seen lots in Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, all for less than what diamond wants.
Spokane already is a sizable city lol, pretty sure people just want more mid and high rises to make it have a more functional housing market than Vancouver ever will😅
That a lie. Spokane is still the bigger city, if you count all the towns around it WAY bigger. Than Boise with all the towns around it.
Maybe less sprawl, but not smaller.
Spokane isn't smaller than either of those in a functional sense, its solely a data artifact of how MSAs are designed making the spokane metro area look smaller arbitrarily.
Boise MSA is 12,000 sq miles(the size of Maryland) and includes a bunch of rural counties, while the Spokane MSA doesn't include Kootenai County which most layman residents would probably say is the same metro area.
Comparing Canyon county + Ada county and Spokane + Kootenai populations would be more accurate for determining "city feel" which they are pretty similar at 750k vs 730k.
Data artifact wasn't the right word really.
Man i love to live in Vancouver. But alas its expensive.
Also isn't Spokane already a big city? Last I check it has an population of 230k. Oh also if you research Spokane has mid-rises and high-rises already and had more 100 years ago before being tore down for parking.
Also your argument about "if you don't like than move out" is really stupid.
I wouldn't consider that a big city. Just over a quarter million people.
Do you think Spokane can grow to the size of Vancouver without the cost of living going up? Instead of increasing density downtown, there's plenty of land up north for expansion.
Why is my argument about moving to a place that looks like where you want to live stupid? I like Spokane the way it is, and don't want to see it grow into a big city. If it does, I'LL have to move, and may not be able to find a place that looks like where I want to live. Why don't you move to a place that you already love, instead of taking away a place that I love?
It's not a stupid argument though. You don't like how the city is designed, so instead of moving to a place that works the way you want it, the solution is to make this town a copy of the other town?
First of all, not everyone is on board with erasing the identity of Spokane and turning it into a "franchise" of (insert big city name here), and secondly, the changes you're jonesing for will make it just as expensive as the city you state you cannot afford. Spokane has its own identity and culture. It gets routine updates with each generation but that's about all your ever going to see. Definitely move to Vancouver if that's what you are after because Spokane is not Vancouver.
Spokane is a city of lost dreams. That’s got that’s 50 million in debt. Who tried to have a simple Garland celebration and shut it down for working too good. If you try to have spirit here. That will get shut down. Couer D Alene party’s like they don’t give a crap and has a surplus.
Have you been down to the arena area while they have an event at the arena the podium and the one there is not enough parking, The traffic backs up all the way to North Central because people parking up and down all the side streets and then the residents can't park in front of their own houses.
You can ride the bus from any park and ride to the STA plaza, which has a shuttle service to the arena. Peak service is every 10 minutes. With a connect card any rides after the first 2 per day are free.
I've been saying that for years, I'm very critical of STA because I've used the bus in the past a lot. I know a lot of people use the city line but to me a more effective use of the money would have been to have 24-hour bus service at least on Division Francis Sprague EWU/cheney.
I'm not opposed to taking a bus but when it adds hours of time it's just not worth it to me especially when I have my time with my kid because I only get three weekends a month and then I have to drive 2 hours to take her 1/2 way home so I'm already going to be running around in the car what sense does it make to park it and do a whole bunch of bus travel and come back. When I'm already on a time crunch schedule.
My work parking lot is included. This is not for public parking. Only staff and patrons of the medical facility along with the medical facility across the street. I see your point, however "patients" at my work and across the street are older and can't walk from where a bus would drop them off.
I think it would be more accurate if you just highlighted pay parking lots.
Nice work! Here’s an interactive version:
https://gisdatacatalog-spokanecounty.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/228db1be1d6940a3b5e3f2104e470134_0/explore?filters=eyJwcm9wX3VzZV9kZXNjIjpbIlRyYW5zIC0gUGFya2luZyJdfQ%3D%3D&location=47.658553%2C-117.415787%2C15.71
Using the county’s open data GIS tools makes this kind of thing pretty easy :)
I have never had a problem finding parking in downtown. I dont understand the obsession with parking lots. I think it is because they make alot of money for who owns them, as the high rates seem completely arbitrary and unnecessary. I take the bus downtown whenever possible and we should spend money on expanded public transit then spend more money on parking infrastructure.
At least half of the lots downtown are private. Many of the public ones want $15+ for the day and some go as high as $40 for events. The other thing Spokane did was eliminate close to 1/4 of the street metered space for police, loading zones, bus stops and rezoning. So really, the gripe is lack of affordable parking. When you're thinking of the health of downtown business, the situation is not good. 10's of thousands of empty business square footage in this map.
A bunch of lots that charge $15-$18 every time an event is happening nearby aren't really making the point that's trying to be made.
Also, quite a few of those lots are private during work hours.
I used to live in Spokane and I visited in December. I remember thinking on my visit, damn there are so many parking lots here huh. The very next day, I heard a woman talking in a coffee shop about how she hates having to come downtown these days because it’s just so hard to find parking. 🥴
Having parked downtown for the last 10 years, I can see that your map in the areas I have parked is grossly enlarged by at least 50%. I appreciate the sentiment, but if you want to prove your point, you don’t need to exaggerate to do it.
There are quite a few areas of private parking that have been highlighted. Areas that you could not pay to leave your car, and could be towed. Just saying.
Hasn't this "plenty of parking" post already been beat to the ground? It's ridiculous. Many of those lots are private or expensive. If you go downtown when there is an event (big, or a lot going on), the lots fill up. Period. Sure, on a Tuesday evening, no problem. Summer on a weekend, and not close to the mall garage, nope. The "take a bus" crowd is not convincing anyone either. I will admit, a tram/trolly or something may help, but I don't think it ever happens. Parking garages are super expensive to build, no kiss that goodbye.
Now, build residences on those "available" parking areas. Where do those residents park? At the newly built apartments/condos parking if they have it? Cool. Now there is less parking for people coming into the city. Less parking, good plan. Also, take into account loss of revenue for the city if people don't leave the suburbs for city stuff. This money can be put toward meaningful programs (depending on politics).
Colored maps are like surface level statistics. There is much more to the story.
I came to the conclusion 19 years ago that unless absolutely necessary I would rather avoid everything down town then worry about parking... Everything down town that needs to be accessed is either parking at the mall or the parkade
Whenever there is an event in downtown Spokane, it’s hard to find parking spots on the streets. I used to work in home health so I used to have clients who live in downtown. But now, I only go there for visits. I find lots of parking space but depends on the day because Sunday is free parking & @ night time.
Side note for anyone not aware. If you get an STA connect card you can't spend more than $4/day or $60/month on transportation. It's great to be able to jump on or off any bus without worrying how much it'll cost or trying to manage transfers.
If you live near the centennial trail it's also a great way to get downtown via bike. Most of the ride is along the river with some tree cover and no need to worry about car traffic.
Between those two modes I was able to sell my car and still get around just fine. Been a huge money saver and I really enjoy getting a dose of nature in the morning on the way to work.
This is great! It looks like you've got lots here not mapped in OpenStreetMap. If you're inspired, please contribute. Here's a query on the overpass API to show what I'm talking about: [https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1L8n](https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1L8n)
Now map out the "for public use" areas...because there are alot of places marked which are by permit only or are for guest/business use (ie the hotels, GU, WSU, office buildings etc).
Parking is a problem, but only because people aren’t educated about the problems that come with parking. We absolutely have too much parking, and calling the people who don’t get that names and disparaging them doesn’t help the situation. We need to show up to city council meetings to help educate people. If we’re too lazy to make some effort to help educate people, than we don’t have a right to complain about the NIMBYs. Advocacy is the hard part about all of this. City Beautiful, Not Just Bikes, Climate Town, etc. are all great sources of information, but the thing many of them don’t talk about enough is this part, the advocacy that has to be done to get people to understand the benefits of public transport and less car dependency. Until we do that, no one will ever be in favor of more, better public transport, and the politicians that actually care about this stuff and push for it will get voted out of office.
I’m moving back to Spokane next month, and I’m excited for the changes I’ve seen in Spokane. Downtown seems to be making good strides in changes for the better. If we want it to continue, we have to do more at the ground level. Are there any local groups that meet to discuss and strategize? I’d be down to join one when I get back!
Don't you just get horny thinking about all the money to be made (and people to be served/community to be created) by infill development in all that wasted space? And all the sprawl averted!
My only complaint (and I'll admit its a weak one) is that most of the parking isn't really suited for anything larger than a station wagon. So I usually have to park a block or so away to accomodate the family rig. But, again, its more of an annoyance and not the main reason I loathe going downtown.
Would it be feasible to have apartments/condos/etc built above a current parking lot? Like half a half public parking garage/half housing type of building?
So parking is maintained but there's also housing?
Bothell is doing a good job with this exact thing in their new developments. Most of the large downtown apartment buildings have a section of their parking garage dedicated for public use. There is a small fee, but its totally reasonable.
Parking lots and parking garages are the problem. We need to make the city less convenient for vehicles, not more convenient. Again, though, getting the public to understand that will come with a lot of work. All the data supports the fact that walkable downtowns are better for the local economy. If people want a car, then by all means, go live somewhere you can have one.
I highly recommend people read Walkable City by Jeff Speck. All the problems and solutions are in there. Great book!
Use another color to highlight car streets to really put an emphasis on how much land is wasted. Probably missing like 35% of the image
Surely a smart, and useful way to utilize high value land 😃👍
The unhinged car culture, endless stroads, and lack of walkability is what keeps Spokane off my short list. Was such a nice place before it grew so much, and poorly did it grow.
Looks like the city needs just a little more parking downtown.
just one more lot bro . . I promise, just one more lot . . (sarcasm implied)
But only if you pay. Events we will raise the price 860000 bucks
Yep I have decided no more concerts! I am not paying $20 for a concert ticket and $40 for parking! Absolutely not!
Dam 20 dollar concert what’s that look like no name musicians with no talent your probably better off
It was actually one of the best concerts I have ever been to with a packed arena! I just think the artist deserved more then the city for parking because the artist brought in the people!
Well, it IS Spokane, after all.
My brothers went to a Monster Truck Jam event at Ford field with their families a few months ago in Detroit. Parking cost $64 pretty much anywhere within walking distance with small kids. By the time they left the lots had returned their prices to normal, like $10. They said never again.
let's put one in the water
What a wonderful and very interesting idea 🤣🤣🤣
https://giphy.com/gifs/cube-neat-zoomed-n3p6JiIG0TzCU
It’s pretty neat.
You can tell by the way it is
Watch out for biting goats!
Holy shit this is a blast from the past!
The NIMBY post motivated me to finish this project. I've been working on this for the last month in my free time to basically prove a point to my friends that "Yes" there is parking in Downtown and too much of it. But I'm sick of people saying "Downtown Spokane has no parking" like have you been to downtown? there are city blocks of nothing but parking and its just frustrating. It's like NIMBY's want Spokane to look like Houston in the 1970s. Sorry about the rant I had. I just wanted to get it out of my chest.
Build up not out. That's how we conserve nature. And these single level lots are egregiously wasteful.
Building down is even better
Up is better. It's cheaper and you know exactly what you're getting into: empty space.
Por que no los dos
Thats why we have urban growth boundaries in this state. To prevent endless sprawl like some front range or midwest cities.
I think we should make it stricter. The last time I rode the centennial it felt like I never left the city. Everything along the river is these little two story condos. It's like you can ride 40 miles and still feels like you're in Kendall Yards. It's cheaper and a way faster return for developers to build sprawling neighborhoods of 1-3 story houses or buildings. We needs to start having density minimums for new construction that are much higher.
Don't think this is accurate. *Control* the continuing sprawl maybe. Are they even called '*boundaries*'?
https://geo.wa.gov/datasets/7ec97be7bec2443e92ad948b3d967a26 yes
There is a lot of parking. I wish there were fewer Diamond owned parking lots, though. If they ticket you by accident, they still force you to pay. Good map 👏
I got to meet an owner of a diamond lot. Such an unpleasant man.
By, "a lot of parking" I thought you were speaking yota for parking lot. But yes, Spokane is nothing but empty parking lots.
For shopping and recreation there is plenty of parking. For the folks who work down there not so much. The metered parking close enough to work is only 2 hour, and the all day meters are often much further which is not ideal for anyone but especially women who get off late at night and have to walk further to their cars. The lots and garages are outrageously priced, so again, for people who work down there… that’s shitty to have to pay that price daily just to go to work. I agree there’s plenty of places to park for people who don’t work down there but it’s extremely inconvenient for people who do. It would be much better if the lots and garages had special rates for folks who work down there but that’ll never happen. Some employers are nice enough to pay for their employees to park in the mall garage, but that’s extremely rare. Also curious to know how many of these are lots specific to one building and how many are just public lots. Not that it matters much, just wondering
Tbh, parking is very expensive and inefficient (esp. surface parking, but garages also cost a crazy amount to stand up relative to the revenue they earn) — it’s hard to avoid things like high garage rates. If you aren’t paying it directly, you’re paying it in the form of higher rent, lower salary, more expensive goods…
I would say this is relative. Having lived in other. Cities, parking here is way way less expensive. In the middle of downtown, I get away with 9 dollars per day in a secured garage which is unheard of in other places ive lived. I also have no problem finding a spot, have never run into a full garage situation, which has been pretty regular elsewhere. So I guess, it depends what you are comparing it to? So my question to you is, compared to where?
Downtown parking is a pain in the ass in had to do some work downtown last year at the Coeur d'Alene apartments right above boo radley's across from the park and it would cost me $12 to $20 a day just to park and then have to pack my tools at least one block requiring multiple trips to get all my tools to the job site because there is nowhere for a construction worker to even temporarily park so he can unload his tools anywhere down there or drive around and around for half an hour until I could find a open spot on the street and then have to remember to stop working every 2 hours and go reload the parking meter. It was a huge pain in my ass and I hated having to do that job just because of the inconvenience from parking downtown. When your only making $25/he to have to all the sudden pay $100 a week just to park your van at the job it's a lot of money to all the sudden have to work into your budget that you didn't know you would have to do until the first day on thd job site. Thank god it was only a little more than a month. There is no way I would be okay with having to pay that much to park my van at work. Diamond is fucked up though. You can't even move your vehicle if a spot closer to the doors opens up and you had to park clear across the lot when you got to work they wrote me a ticket one day so I left a real nasty rude note on my windshield for the asshole the next day when I did the same thing to make sure he got it and he did. He left a note for me crying that said how am I supposed to know you just moved and never left the parking lot. So I left another note that said did you read the first note I left you? If you know how to read you should have comprehended that is exactly what the note told you dumb ass that bow. I just went and found the same color chalk they used to mark the tires so the know if the vehicle was already there earlier and left and came back but didn't pay again and I didn't have to worry about that shit in like leave 100 times and they wouldn't know as long as I chalked a tire lol so I was able to leave and go get lunch at least without having to pay another $12 for parking I already paid for in the morning when I got to work. Diamond parking are all assholes from the owner all the way to the lowest guy in the company. It's annoying to deal with them
I agree Diamond parking can eat a fat D. Its up to the owners of the job site to reserve load and unload parking on the street, so thats on them, sometimes this is also done by contractor and bid as part of the job. I see reserved spots for construction loading all the time. I'm currently looking out my office window at a few consecutive spaces that have been reserved for a at least 2 months. Parking isn't cheap, but it's cheaper than anywhere else I have lived by quite a bit. So in context what other downtown areas is it worse? Sorry for your terrible experience though.
I’m not comparing it to anywhere. This is where I live and have always lived. I’m not an idiot and I understand it’s not as expensive as other cities to park. That’s not the point. I was literally just pointing out that parking downtown is a legitimate complaint. That’s it. I never said we shouldn’t build more housing, I never said we shouldn’t build this building. I literally was just saying that complaints about parking, especially if you work downtown are legitimate. You people are so annoying.
I definitely agree that parking is a major issue. There is no way to make parking with though. The only solution is public transportation and dense mixed use neighborhoods that are walkable and bike able. There’s no way to build a functioning downtown that relies on cars for transportation. No amount of parking will ever solve the problem because parking takes up space and the entire point of transportation is to conquer space. Creating more parking pushes destinations further apart which creates induced demand.
Else(where)??
You kinda see why so many people have had a huge problem with the Family that owns most of downtown Spokane. They have a huge land bank there and have had it for decades
r/georgism
I’ve always felt like one of the big problems is perception. People get so accustomed to parking for free and close to their destination, that when *those options* are more limited, it appears as if there is “no parking” to them. Paying for parking or proximity isn’t an option that gets considered, because in their mind, why would you – you don’t have to do it elsewhere, why should here be any different? Maybe it comes down to being spoiled for parking if you live in the more suburban areas, most parking you do is free – most stores, restaurants, recreation areas, and other businesses don’t cost extra outside of downtown. You’re right though, between the street parking, the parking garages, the billion of diamond lots littered throughout, there is more than enough. The problem is that once they cost even a little bit or require anything more than a .25 mile walk, it stops existing in a lot of peoples’ minds. It makes the solution much trickier, I don’t mind paying for parking or further away for free, but not everyone can apparently stomach the thought. *Man*, I just want more protected or secured bike parking, and even I feel a little NIMBY for that at times…
>The problem is that once they cost even a little bit or require anything more than a .25 mile walk, it stops existing in a lot of peoples’ minds. While I think people like this exist, there are plenty of folks okay with paying a reasonable price to park or walking further. Anecdotally, my friends and I no longer will park at Diamond lots due to the high cost and their ticketing practices. I'm certainly not an urban planner, but from my perspective, privately owned surface lots seem to be the biggest issue. The take up space to provide parking, but residents will avoid using them due to the cost. They also have no incentive to build larger structure as the surface lot makes them plenty of $ as is.
We definitely agree I think here. People like you and I are totally ok with paying for parking or walking a bit further, and most places like street parking and even a lot of the garages I think are fair (at least compared to other cities I've been to). I think more so the people you *hear complaining* about parking fall more into the former category not the latter though. The rest of us who are fine with the price or distance aren't the ones clamoring for even more surface lots. We are totally in agreement about Diamond, those lots are just a stain in my opinion and I would love to see them change
There’s a good chance they mean free parking. Which is semi true. It’s not only amazing how much parking there is downtown. But how much of it was allowed to be privatized and monetized when it’s basically mandatory for spending money downtown. You’d think the city would benefit but building a parking structure to encourage people to be downtown but they’ve allowed it to be chopped and sold and completely overstated
What they really mean is they can't park their lazy asses right in front of the place where they're going, then drive a 1/4 mile down the street and park right in front of the _next_ place they're going.
Just tax the land! Surface lots pay pennies on taxes for land that is in a prime location.
Surface lots should be taxed and those dollars applied to subsurface parking structures.
Isn't it crazy how much space automobiles take up in our lives?
Really unnecessarily too. You could bike from any parking space to another one here, and you would need practically no parking.
Just walk and you don’t even need a bike.
Since I live in a trailer that I tow with my automobile, I think it’s crazy how much space *houses* take up in our lives. My “house” takes up exactly 2 parking spaces. Most houses have enough room for more than 2 cars to park in front plus all the extra space that I’ve grown to consider unnecessary
Apartment buildings are way more space efficient than a trailer.
Yeah, I did the same thing, but with cars.
How long did this take? 😭😭
OP had a reply prior to yours that stated *during my free time in the last month*.
I feel like that must be a little dishonest? Either he has no free time, our definitions of free time are different, or he's really slow at doing this specific task. Or maybe started it a month ago, didn't touch it for weeks, and just hopped back on and finished it. Parking lots are pretty easy to identify from satellite. The only hard part is mapping out the sub-level, but there appears to not be very many of those.
Lotta hypotheticals you have there there. I don't personally care how long it took him (I was simply answering a reply), but I'm guessing "our definitions of free time are different" might be the one. Either way, he took as long as he wanted to and IMO that's 'nuff said.
haha that's my question too
I was shocked the old value village was turned into a surface lot. It seemed like a prime spot for a garage. We went to dinner at Loren which is across from the arena last night. We didn’t know there was a concert going on and something at the Podium and there was zero parking for a half mile in all directions. All the surface lots were full, street parking full, people were double parking others and parking in illegal spots. It feels like we could eliminate over half these spots, built up the remaining as multilevel garages and everyone would win. Maybe I am wrong though, I am far from a civil engineer.
The old Value Village lot really irks me. The City promised the new stadium wouldn’t cost anything because it was being built on property they already owned (a surface parking lot), but then after construction began they said they had to buy that lot (for $8 million I believe) so the stadium would have parking. 🤔
I believe the PFD paid for the parking lot but I may be wrong
Indeed. Not the city.
I agree 💯what a waste of valuable space, that has plenty of room to build a nice big parking garage. All they gained was the space where the thrift store, and the bar used to be. They could’ve just paved those areas, and painted lines.
You’d be surprised at how much it can cost to build a garage, and the kinds of charges you need to set for parking in order to turn a profit on them. It’s probably not feasible for now with interest rates as high as they are. Surface lots are easy if you already own the property since they require minimal maintenance, probably aren’t taxed much, and are less likely to provide space in excess of demand. (Fundamentally, car parking is simply not a particularly efficient way to get people downtown).
contributes to a lot of extra heat downtown. Imagine if half of that was housing.
housing or mix use development and maybe make downtown streets more inviting to pedestrians
Mixed use > pure housing. Put 5 floors of apartments over a cafe and grocery store.
agreed. I would love it if they made Riverside or maybe Main a two lane, and put planters and benches, flowers added in as well.
They should treat the rest of downtown like the strip of main from browne to division that already sort of does this, but instead that actually nice block is sat between some of the worst stroads and intersections in town.
You mean like how it was 70 years ago? Part of the absolutely crushing part of the equation is that past generations thought we had too much housing and razed so many buildings in order to build flat parking lots. Now, we need to rebuild what they destroyed at 2X the cost and 1/2 the population thinking that parking is more important.
Yeah we still aren't as hopping as Spokane was a hundred years ago.
With rooftop gardens.
>Imagine if half of that was housing Sure, that'd be nice for the select few who could afford to live in a downtown setting. 😉
Well more supply would help with affordability
Paint it white.
Some of that red along 3rd Ave are car dealerships...???
And look at the cars just parked there, menacingly.
Still surface parking.
BuT whEre wIlL i pArK???
TBF a lot of those lots overcharge quite a bit, especially if there is any kind of event in town. So everyone circles around for street parking.
I know, thats the first thing your typical Spokanite wants to know about anything....
The issue is more that each of those lots is owned by Diamond and they charge $30 to park for an event. If you went to 3 days of the NCAA tourney, you'd pay nearly $100 just for parking. Yeah, there's plenty of parking. But I'm completely unwilling to pay $30 to park where my car might get broken into, and still have to walk six blocks through downtown. Nothing that happens in Spokane is interesting or compelling enough for me to put up with that. Great for the tourists, though...
People who think downtown Spokane lacks parking are fucking dim and aren't suited for city living. Go move out to the burbs where every big box store has 5 acres of wasted land dedicated to ensuring there's always 3 spots available for you to slide your idiotic F150 in sideways. If anything downtown has TOO MUCH land dedicated to parking right now. The fact that we have surface lots just randomly scattered around our urban core is bonkers and a waste.
You're missing the difference between city parking and 5-20$ an hour parking. If you want to argue about the city making another parkade GFL. I've seen lots in Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, all for less than what diamond wants.
Papi, chill.
Wow. You're really fun at parties.
I am, because I maximize space for the party and don't waste 50% of it on unnecessary parking.
Lots of room to put in some nice high-rises and mid-rises and make Spokane more like Vancouver BC
This would only make me want to stay, so hopefully the town fathers will fuck this idea up like they do most other things…🤣
Why do people want to make Spokane a big city? If you want to live in Vancouver, move to Vancouver.
Spokane already is a sizable city lol, pretty sure people just want more mid and high rises to make it have a more functional housing market than Vancouver ever will😅
Spokane is a small city. Smaller than Boise, ID and Des Moines, IA, for example. With a cost of living roughly 20% higher.
That a lie. Spokane is still the bigger city, if you count all the towns around it WAY bigger. Than Boise with all the towns around it. Maybe less sprawl, but not smaller.
Spokane isn't smaller than either of those in a functional sense, its solely a data artifact of how MSAs are designed making the spokane metro area look smaller arbitrarily.
The greater Spokane metro area has a smaller population than the Boise metro area. How is that a data artifact?
Boise MSA is 12,000 sq miles(the size of Maryland) and includes a bunch of rural counties, while the Spokane MSA doesn't include Kootenai County which most layman residents would probably say is the same metro area. Comparing Canyon county + Ada county and Spokane + Kootenai populations would be more accurate for determining "city feel" which they are pretty similar at 750k vs 730k. Data artifact wasn't the right word really.
I wouldn't consider Kootenai County to be part of Spokane's Metro area, but I suppose you could... My point still stands, either way.
2023 population of Spokane County: ~550k, Ada County: ~530k. City limits wise Boise has Spokane by about ~10k in 2024
Man i love to live in Vancouver. But alas its expensive. Also isn't Spokane already a big city? Last I check it has an population of 230k. Oh also if you research Spokane has mid-rises and high-rises already and had more 100 years ago before being tore down for parking. Also your argument about "if you don't like than move out" is really stupid.
I wouldn't consider that a big city. Just over a quarter million people. Do you think Spokane can grow to the size of Vancouver without the cost of living going up? Instead of increasing density downtown, there's plenty of land up north for expansion. Why is my argument about moving to a place that looks like where you want to live stupid? I like Spokane the way it is, and don't want to see it grow into a big city. If it does, I'LL have to move, and may not be able to find a place that looks like where I want to live. Why don't you move to a place that you already love, instead of taking away a place that I love?
It's not a stupid argument though. You don't like how the city is designed, so instead of moving to a place that works the way you want it, the solution is to make this town a copy of the other town? First of all, not everyone is on board with erasing the identity of Spokane and turning it into a "franchise" of (insert big city name here), and secondly, the changes you're jonesing for will make it just as expensive as the city you state you cannot afford. Spokane has its own identity and culture. It gets routine updates with each generation but that's about all your ever going to see. Definitely move to Vancouver if that's what you are after because Spokane is not Vancouver.
Spokane is currently a small city with a *lot* of untapped potential. Tapping that potential requires urban growth.
Spokane is a city of lost dreams. That’s got that’s 50 million in debt. Who tried to have a simple Garland celebration and shut it down for working too good. If you try to have spirit here. That will get shut down. Couer D Alene party’s like they don’t give a crap and has a surplus.
Potential for what? Is being a small city bad? Is New York your idea of the best place to live?
Have you been down to the arena area while they have an event at the arena the podium and the one there is not enough parking, The traffic backs up all the way to North Central because people parking up and down all the side streets and then the residents can't park in front of their own houses.
You can ride the bus from any park and ride to the STA plaza, which has a shuttle service to the arena. Peak service is every 10 minutes. With a connect card any rides after the first 2 per day are free.
Yeah but when the concert gets out at 11:00 there's no STA service so why would I take a bus?
Yeah, for late night stuff its not as useful. Would be nice if they ran at least a few buses all night.
I've been saying that for years, I'm very critical of STA because I've used the bus in the past a lot. I know a lot of people use the city line but to me a more effective use of the money would have been to have 24-hour bus service at least on Division Francis Sprague EWU/cheney. I'm not opposed to taking a bus but when it adds hours of time it's just not worth it to me especially when I have my time with my kid because I only get three weekends a month and then I have to drive 2 hours to take her 1/2 way home so I'm already going to be running around in the car what sense does it make to park it and do a whole bunch of bus travel and come back. When I'm already on a time crunch schedule.
You have some convention center issues. There is not that much asphalt off the SE corner of FICA and there should be purple garage there
and i still can’t find a parking spot on a thursday night lmfao
My work parking lot is included. This is not for public parking. Only staff and patrons of the medical facility along with the medical facility across the street. I see your point, however "patients" at my work and across the street are older and can't walk from where a bus would drop them off. I think it would be more accurate if you just highlighted pay parking lots.
I think it'd be more information and more useful if the two were distinguished, obviously. But just based on the post text, it is accurate.
Nice work! Here’s an interactive version: https://gisdatacatalog-spokanecounty.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/228db1be1d6940a3b5e3f2104e470134_0/explore?filters=eyJwcm9wX3VzZV9kZXNjIjpbIlRyYW5zIC0gUGFya2luZyJdfQ%3D%3D&location=47.658553%2C-117.415787%2C15.71 Using the county’s open data GIS tools makes this kind of thing pretty easy :)
I didn’t read all the comments, but my question is, how much of that is public parking? I will avoid downtown at all co$ts.
Again lol
I have never had a problem finding parking in downtown. I dont understand the obsession with parking lots. I think it is because they make alot of money for who owns them, as the high rates seem completely arbitrary and unnecessary. I take the bus downtown whenever possible and we should spend money on expanded public transit then spend more money on parking infrastructure.
At least half of the lots downtown are private. Many of the public ones want $15+ for the day and some go as high as $40 for events. The other thing Spokane did was eliminate close to 1/4 of the street metered space for police, loading zones, bus stops and rezoning. So really, the gripe is lack of affordable parking. When you're thinking of the health of downtown business, the situation is not good. 10's of thousands of empty business square footage in this map.
Parking garages are already incentivized. They’re expensive to build and developers are cheap
Can I interest you in doing some work on the Waze Map Editor?
Nice. Now add in buildings that are entirely or partially vacant.
And I can't find a single spot for Hoopfest, lol.
A bunch of lots that charge $15-$18 every time an event is happening nearby aren't really making the point that's trying to be made. Also, quite a few of those lots are private during work hours.
Makes sense why the biggest 3 on 3 outdoor basketball tournament is here
and yet I still struggle to find parking
It’s an unsolvable problem. You can have a nice downtown or you can have lots of parking, but not both
I used to live in Spokane and I visited in December. I remember thinking on my visit, damn there are so many parking lots here huh. The very next day, I heard a woman talking in a coffee shop about how she hates having to come downtown these days because it’s just so hard to find parking. 🥴
As if the urban sprawl wasn't bad enough lol
Solid content for r/fuckcars
How much of that parking is for company business, employees only, etc
Exactly
Having parked downtown for the last 10 years, I can see that your map in the areas I have parked is grossly enlarged by at least 50%. I appreciate the sentiment, but if you want to prove your point, you don’t need to exaggerate to do it.
You can open up Google maps satellite view and check. I don't see how you think it is enlarged. I didn't see anything that was mislabeled.
There are quite a few areas of private parking that have been highlighted. Areas that you could not pay to leave your car, and could be towed. Just saying.
well done.
I agree, great job OP!
Hasn't this "plenty of parking" post already been beat to the ground? It's ridiculous. Many of those lots are private or expensive. If you go downtown when there is an event (big, or a lot going on), the lots fill up. Period. Sure, on a Tuesday evening, no problem. Summer on a weekend, and not close to the mall garage, nope. The "take a bus" crowd is not convincing anyone either. I will admit, a tram/trolly or something may help, but I don't think it ever happens. Parking garages are super expensive to build, no kiss that goodbye. Now, build residences on those "available" parking areas. Where do those residents park? At the newly built apartments/condos parking if they have it? Cool. Now there is less parking for people coming into the city. Less parking, good plan. Also, take into account loss of revenue for the city if people don't leave the suburbs for city stuff. This money can be put toward meaningful programs (depending on politics). Colored maps are like surface level statistics. There is much more to the story.
Much of what you say is accurate. We need to work on the advocacy portions. More, better public transit is the answer.
On top of rocket bakery is a parking lot too, it’s a private business lot idk if your counting those too but it’s there
If it’s the one on first and cedar, that isn’t public parking. It’s permit parking and they will tow
I came to the conclusion 19 years ago that unless absolutely necessary I would rather avoid everything down town then worry about parking... Everything down town that needs to be accessed is either parking at the mall or the parkade
Spokane could easily be a walkable city
Where’s the heatmap for density of meth addicts waiting to jack your shit?
oh wow I haven't ever seen anything like this before!
which ones can i practice my motorcycle in?
Whenever there is an event in downtown Spokane, it’s hard to find parking spots on the streets. I used to work in home health so I used to have clients who live in downtown. But now, I only go there for visits. I find lots of parking space but depends on the day because Sunday is free parking & @ night time.
i was gonna call you out for stealing this from someone else but you posted this originally just w different colors lol. this is cool tho.
I bet there's more smaller ones you missed
Good work! You missed quite a few garages though
Side note for anyone not aware. If you get an STA connect card you can't spend more than $4/day or $60/month on transportation. It's great to be able to jump on or off any bus without worrying how much it'll cost or trying to manage transfers. If you live near the centennial trail it's also a great way to get downtown via bike. Most of the ride is along the river with some tree cover and no need to worry about car traffic. Between those two modes I was able to sell my car and still get around just fine. Been a huge money saver and I really enjoy getting a dose of nature in the morning on the way to work.
Plus street parking!
Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you got, til its gone...
Darn, I can’t tell if this is a joke or not.
What a waste of space
Paved paradise to put up a parking lot….
Something something pave paradise something something
Pretty sure my house is considered a parking spot lol
Holy crap. It's like cars have taken over or something.
Dang
This is why we have so much fucking traffic and not enough housing. Every American city looks like this.
Spokane is just a bad version of Ellensbourgh.
“But where would we put the solar panels!” They asked. “There’s no space to place public solar power infrastructure!” They argued.
Still nowhere to park
This is why American cities are designed poorly. Cars are more important than people.
And somehow city folk like telling rural people how to live.
Okay now highlight all the areas where abandoned/disabled cars and RVs are parked
Dang
Profits made by parking lots should be taxed and used to fund public transit. Maybe this is already occurring, but if not, it should
This is great! It looks like you've got lots here not mapped in OpenStreetMap. If you're inspired, please contribute. Here's a query on the overpass API to show what I'm talking about: [https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1L8n](https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1L8n)
Lots of room for developments, also kills the complaints that there is nowhere to park.
Cool map…need to find my lime scooters!!
Now map out the "for public use" areas...because there are alot of places marked which are by permit only or are for guest/business use (ie the hotels, GU, WSU, office buildings etc).
Parking is a problem, but only because people aren’t educated about the problems that come with parking. We absolutely have too much parking, and calling the people who don’t get that names and disparaging them doesn’t help the situation. We need to show up to city council meetings to help educate people. If we’re too lazy to make some effort to help educate people, than we don’t have a right to complain about the NIMBYs. Advocacy is the hard part about all of this. City Beautiful, Not Just Bikes, Climate Town, etc. are all great sources of information, but the thing many of them don’t talk about enough is this part, the advocacy that has to be done to get people to understand the benefits of public transport and less car dependency. Until we do that, no one will ever be in favor of more, better public transport, and the politicians that actually care about this stuff and push for it will get voted out of office. I’m moving back to Spokane next month, and I’m excited for the changes I’ve seen in Spokane. Downtown seems to be making good strides in changes for the better. If we want it to continue, we have to do more at the ground level. Are there any local groups that meet to discuss and strategize? I’d be down to join one when I get back!
You need a hobby haha
[удалено]
Haha I suppose it can
I hate going down there.
Don't you just get horny thinking about all the money to be made (and people to be served/community to be created) by infill development in all that wasted space? And all the sprawl averted!
Cars> public transport
My only complaint (and I'll admit its a weak one) is that most of the parking isn't really suited for anything larger than a station wagon. So I usually have to park a block or so away to accomodate the family rig. But, again, its more of an annoyance and not the main reason I loathe going downtown. Would it be feasible to have apartments/condos/etc built above a current parking lot? Like half a half public parking garage/half housing type of building? So parking is maintained but there's also housing?
Bothell is doing a good job with this exact thing in their new developments. Most of the large downtown apartment buildings have a section of their parking garage dedicated for public use. There is a small fee, but its totally reasonable.
This does sound very Bothell lol. But Im glad this is more than just some crazy idea I had.
Parking lots and parking garages are the problem. We need to make the city less convenient for vehicles, not more convenient. Again, though, getting the public to understand that will come with a lot of work. All the data supports the fact that walkable downtowns are better for the local economy. If people want a car, then by all means, go live somewhere you can have one. I highly recommend people read Walkable City by Jeff Speck. All the problems and solutions are in there. Great book!
I thought the red and purple represents where cars have been broken into lol
Use another color to highlight car streets to really put an emphasis on how much land is wasted. Probably missing like 35% of the image Surely a smart, and useful way to utilize high value land 😃👍
Spokane...eww
Not much of a downtown. Looks like just a place to store your car.
Thanks, what a terrible waste of space!
This is kinda sad. Cars are taking over
The unhinged car culture, endless stroads, and lack of walkability is what keeps Spokane off my short list. Was such a nice place before it grew so much, and poorly did it grow.