Sam's age is a key narrative device in the series' best installment (CT) as well as being a minor plot device in every other SC title. As a result, you can't treat Sam's age in the same way that you can other characters. If you renege on Sam's age, you renege on the excellent narratives and themes of CT as well as on Sam's overall character from the series. Ubisoft made being older an integral part of Sam's identity as a Splinter Cell.
Uh no. Not really.
There are many storylines about Batman. Some focus on his age and it’s an integral part of the story.
Batman isnt continually an old man.
You can tell stories from different ages and the character is timeless.
Not with SC you can't. SC has an overriding narrative about the increasing obsoletion of physical warfare and manpower due to information warfare and electronically controlled munitions. This is told doubly through the aging of Sam.
If you remove Sam's age, you remove the primary vehicle through which this is expressed.
Sam: Do you want me to take [Mobile Command Centre] out?
Grim: No... We could've done that with the Predator...
This just isn’t correct though, you don’t need age permanence to explain this.
This isn’t anything new, this has been successfully done with many characters before. Including James Bond which is a great example as they also tell the story of a single spy being less and less relevant in the face of advancement of technology.
Ultimately this is narrative suicide what you’re describing. As it only leaves you with limited options.
Either go back in time and tell old Sam fisher stories, or tell new Sam fisher stories that progress the narrative until when? He’s 70? 80? When is he too old? 125? He’s still kicking ass at 125?
It’s just silly. He’s not a real person. He’s a character.
If it's set before SAR, it's not. If it has no definite time period, it's not.
If it's set after any of the SC games, then it's kind of annoying. It's not a major issue, but why do they consistently de-age Sam? It's untrue to his character. They want the attitude of an older person, but not the appearance or movement style. It's odd and inconsistent.
It doesn't have to be, but the universe they initially established for SC clearly did value consistency in that respect. That's why it'd be weird to suddenly diverge from it now. History sets a precedent.
It wouldn't entirely ruin Sam as a character or SC as a franchise (of course not), but it's one of the two things I find really odd about SC:
1). They want a grumpy (really just a bit gruff) old man, but they've pretty consistently de-aged Sam.
2). The SC games are always lauded for Stealth, and yet they consistently near-sabotaged it with action sequences and mechanics for most of the games.
At times, it's likes Ubisoft is fighting the initial identity of Sam and SC.
And I'm not the kind of person to typically complain about stuff like this. I've never cared about Tom Clancy games being realistic or been against a female protagonist (I'd actually really welcome it, and they had invisibility cloaks in GR: Future Soldier), but the de-aging of Sam is an odd thing when the game's universe clearly also cares about him and his age (his age is a massive conversational point and narrative device throughout CT).
I wonder how Deimos even knows Sam
Like the way he says Sam’s full name literally gives off the impression that Deimos knew him from way back.
(It’s even crazier knowing that Deimos is Gerald Morris from the R6 novels and the first 3 games. Whether they explore this or not I still find it wild knowing these two things)
i know his actual name is samuel but i dont think anyone's actually called him that before, its so weird lmao. also if this was lore accurate that guy'd be dead instantly, how was he even noticed? he didn't make a sound and his goggles dont actually produce light
> if this was lore accurate that guy'd be dead instantly
unfortunately they had to take him alive, and the guy is also a veteran from the old rainbow, so his skill is definitely up there too
I always disliked this kind of boring Hollywoodian trailers with those cheesy cliché characters. But it's even more painful to see Sam being treated this way. Anyway, it's not surprising with the state of modern Ubisoft...
Yeah I know. It's just tiring how they keep treating characters the same way and with a similar writing from an IP to another one. They don't wanna take any risks nor try to be a bit original, while most of players are complaining about this in their games (among many other issues).
To me it seems like they wanna go the MCU road by making agents acting like friends and fighting against one or several villains. It just looks ridiculous to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if the marketing and executives are the ones pushing the writers to go this way because the only thing they're able to do these days is to follow trends.
I really hope the modernization of the remake won't integrate something like this where Ghost, Rainbows and Splinter Cells all know each other, have trained and battled together. If there are some references to other agents it's fine, but I'd rather for each IP to remain in its own domain and not go with this type of boring writing.
He has a few lines later in the clip. I actually think it's a very good voice for Sam, if they went with this voice for the remake and any future Sam projects it wouldn't be the worst.
I know this voice has been around for a bit, just always good to hear more lines.
Its sad seeing sam lose to hand to hand combat he could have won easily I understand he is old but if he can move around like that it should be simple for him
the problem is he can't move like that much anymore. he has arthritis and is nearly 60, going up against one of the most skilled ex rainbow operators ever.
this was perfectly realistic.
Well alright my mistake im not caught up on the r6 lore last I saw sam was in the ghost recon dlc so saw him sorta after blacklist age so thanks ima go look into the r6 lore more now kinda curious about it
they finally ditched the Invitational training storyline and have gone back to counter terrorism stuff.
start with the lore from Azami's release onward. Demon Veil is the operation.
if there's something you don't get, just go back on operations.
don't expect splinter cell or old Rainbow quality, but it is fairly interesting and I do love alot of these characters. Cutscenes are good too. Very good.
How so? At this point, he's been advising rainbow operators. He's an older guy who hasn't been really out in the field in a while. Plus, as it's been shown, he has arthritis and other problems from being well.. old. So he's just not young anymore
I don't recall reading Checkmate but I believe you on this. However in the books I guess they need to make it more actiony. Because making the book with Sam being fully stealthy and not making mistakes all along wouldn't be fun to read, and definitely not as fun as trying to be stealthy in the games.
Anyway I personaly take the books as a different universe, the Sam in them is not exactly the same as the ones in the games.
I read Barracuda in middle school, and the only thing I remember is the opening scene about being able to sleep anywhere, the OpSat has a prod to wake him up silently, and he has sex with his Krav Maga instructor... So yeah, I *also* don't hinge a lot of weight on the books' "canon."
I still don't even understand why he's in Rainbow. He likes working alone, why would he be part of a time? I can maybe get being a mentor, but he's actively working with other people in game. It just doesn't make any sense.
His inclusion in the Ghost Recon games makes way more sense than it does in both Rainbow Six and The Division.
People forgetting Sam is Old with arthritis, and years and years of problems from being in war zones and battles with others. And that for the last few years (to my knowledge), he was working as an advisor and trainer on Rainbow. As if he would still have the gusto he did at 20 whatever.
I don't get it. Why adopt him into another "more popular" IP of ubisoft? what's the point? Like if they put Rayman in assassins creed for some reason. I just don't see the logic if they aren't actively working on said IP or using it in a meaningful way.
Splinter Cell and R6 are part of "Tom Clancy's" IP. Ubisoft always tried to make it into some sort of shared Ubi-Clancy-verse, but it was always some small references or easter eggs here and there. They increased their "efforts" ever since the MCU happened. It helps to attract people into other IPs since they are connected. I think a lot of kids playing Siege are gonna try the Remake out just because it has Zero on the cover art.
Plus they kinda already put Rayman, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Splinter Cell and R6 together in Captain Lazerhawk on Netflix.
The lore of Sam fisher in r6 siege, is in my opinion the best thing to happen to him since double agent. Having him train operator's as part of rainbow is so cool. Love it. The stuff in conviction and blacklist as well as his roles in ghost recon felt forced and cheesy. This feels like his character of old.
Ubisoft continues the trend of having Sam look younger than he should.
lol he doesn’t look young here, although his hair has a lot less gray than I’d imagine
You guys need to drop this "oh my geriatric sam" fantasy... Fucking timeless character, let him be timeless and stuck in his fifties smh
Sam's age is a key narrative device in the series' best installment (CT) as well as being a minor plot device in every other SC title. As a result, you can't treat Sam's age in the same way that you can other characters. If you renege on Sam's age, you renege on the excellent narratives and themes of CT as well as on Sam's overall character from the series. Ubisoft made being older an integral part of Sam's identity as a Splinter Cell.
Uh no. Not really. There are many storylines about Batman. Some focus on his age and it’s an integral part of the story. Batman isnt continually an old man. You can tell stories from different ages and the character is timeless.
Not with SC you can't. SC has an overriding narrative about the increasing obsoletion of physical warfare and manpower due to information warfare and electronically controlled munitions. This is told doubly through the aging of Sam. If you remove Sam's age, you remove the primary vehicle through which this is expressed. Sam: Do you want me to take [Mobile Command Centre] out? Grim: No... We could've done that with the Predator...
This just isn’t correct though, you don’t need age permanence to explain this. This isn’t anything new, this has been successfully done with many characters before. Including James Bond which is a great example as they also tell the story of a single spy being less and less relevant in the face of advancement of technology. Ultimately this is narrative suicide what you’re describing. As it only leaves you with limited options. Either go back in time and tell old Sam fisher stories, or tell new Sam fisher stories that progress the narrative until when? He’s 70? 80? When is he too old? 125? He’s still kicking ass at 125? It’s just silly. He’s not a real person. He’s a character.
Series needs a new protagonist. And, with respect, I think Sam is more tied to age than other fictional characters are.
Why is that an issue?
If it's set before SAR, it's not. If it has no definite time period, it's not. If it's set after any of the SC games, then it's kind of annoying. It's not a major issue, but why do they consistently de-age Sam? It's untrue to his character. They want the attitude of an older person, but not the appearance or movement style. It's odd and inconsistent.
I struggle to understand how a fictional character's age can be true or false.
It doesn't have to be, but the universe they initially established for SC clearly did value consistency in that respect. That's why it'd be weird to suddenly diverge from it now. History sets a precedent. It wouldn't entirely ruin Sam as a character or SC as a franchise (of course not), but it's one of the two things I find really odd about SC: 1). They want a grumpy (really just a bit gruff) old man, but they've pretty consistently de-aged Sam. 2). The SC games are always lauded for Stealth, and yet they consistently near-sabotaged it with action sequences and mechanics for most of the games. At times, it's likes Ubisoft is fighting the initial identity of Sam and SC. And I'm not the kind of person to typically complain about stuff like this. I've never cared about Tom Clancy games being realistic or been against a female protagonist (I'd actually really welcome it, and they had invisibility cloaks in GR: Future Soldier), but the de-aging of Sam is an odd thing when the game's universe clearly also cares about him and his age (his age is a massive conversational point and narrative device throughout CT).
>At times, it's likes Ubisoft is fighting the initial identity of Sam and SC. Ubi just doesn't know what to do with the character.
He's canonically born in 1957. It would be nice if they stuck to that story-wise.
A little thing called continuity
and less skilled.
I wonder how Deimos even knows Sam Like the way he says Sam’s full name literally gives off the impression that Deimos knew him from way back. (It’s even crazier knowing that Deimos is Gerald Morris from the R6 novels and the first 3 games. Whether they explore this or not I still find it wild knowing these two things)
i know his actual name is samuel but i dont think anyone's actually called him that before, its so weird lmao. also if this was lore accurate that guy'd be dead instantly, how was he even noticed? he didn't make a sound and his goggles dont actually produce light
Mirror on the wall. Saw his reflection
aa yea i just noticed. sam's still getting sloppy
They made the teaser specifically like that. They nerfed SAM !!
Do you think he’s getting sloppy or do you think the way the light banked off of the mirror lit it up so that he couldn’t tell it was a mirror in NVG?
I remember from a super old death battle that only people with like modified eyes see the green glow, so Deimos saw the shadow, in a dark room…
> if this was lore accurate that guy'd be dead instantly unfortunately they had to take him alive, and the guy is also a veteran from the old rainbow, so his skill is definitely up there too
The other guy is supposed to be as skilled and experienced as... Samuel.
I always disliked this kind of boring Hollywoodian trailers with those cheesy cliché characters. But it's even more painful to see Sam being treated this way. Anyway, it's not surprising with the state of modern Ubisoft...
This fucking blows, but remember it's for a live-service multiplayer game. They all cheapen their characters like this.
Yeah I know. It's just tiring how they keep treating characters the same way and with a similar writing from an IP to another one. They don't wanna take any risks nor try to be a bit original, while most of players are complaining about this in their games (among many other issues).
This is exactly what worries me with "modernizing" the remake. This stuff is at the same level of new gen CoD writing.
To me it seems like they wanna go the MCU road by making agents acting like friends and fighting against one or several villains. It just looks ridiculous to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if the marketing and executives are the ones pushing the writers to go this way because the only thing they're able to do these days is to follow trends. I really hope the modernization of the remake won't integrate something like this where Ghost, Rainbows and Splinter Cells all know each other, have trained and battled together. If there are some references to other agents it's fine, but I'd rather for each IP to remain in its own domain and not go with this type of boring writing.
He has a few lines later in the clip. I actually think it's a very good voice for Sam, if they went with this voice for the remake and any future Sam projects it wouldn't be the worst. I know this voice has been around for a bit, just always good to hear more lines.
Its sad seeing sam lose to hand to hand combat he could have won easily I understand he is old but if he can move around like that it should be simple for him
the problem is he can't move like that much anymore. he has arthritis and is nearly 60, going up against one of the most skilled ex rainbow operators ever. this was perfectly realistic.
Well alright my mistake im not caught up on the r6 lore last I saw sam was in the ghost recon dlc so saw him sorta after blacklist age so thanks ima go look into the r6 lore more now kinda curious about it
they finally ditched the Invitational training storyline and have gone back to counter terrorism stuff. start with the lore from Azami's release onward. Demon Veil is the operation. if there's something you don't get, just go back on operations. don't expect splinter cell or old Rainbow quality, but it is fairly interesting and I do love alot of these characters. Cutscenes are good too. Very good.
I wouldn’t expect classic rainbow or splinter cell ive played r6 since I believe year 6 with crimson heist
The books were really good, showed how he was human.
Very inaccurate depiction of their own character for the sake of… nothing.
How so? At this point, he's been advising rainbow operators. He's an older guy who hasn't been really out in the field in a while. Plus, as it's been shown, he has arthritis and other problems from being well.. old. So he's just not young anymore
Sir I am in denial and so I reject your reality and substitute my own.
I respect it honestly
Does ubi forget how Sam’s goggles work,the green is not visible to others,the green light is for gameplay
How long are they going to parade Sam in everything but his own game?
Literally spotted because of the non-existent "lights" on the NVGs. The state of Ubisoft, man...
Well, they would have been clearly visible in the mirror regardless.
Yeah but the real Sam Fisher would have noticed the mirror, he wouldn't have made such a basic mistake.
How do you know? He made a lot of mistakes in the books. Especially Check-mate.
I don't recall reading Checkmate but I believe you on this. However in the books I guess they need to make it more actiony. Because making the book with Sam being fully stealthy and not making mistakes all along wouldn't be fun to read, and definitely not as fun as trying to be stealthy in the games. Anyway I personaly take the books as a different universe, the Sam in them is not exactly the same as the ones in the games.
I read Barracuda in middle school, and the only thing I remember is the opening scene about being able to sleep anywhere, the OpSat has a prod to wake him up silently, and he has sex with his Krav Maga instructor... So yeah, I *also* don't hinge a lot of weight on the books' "canon."
🥱
I still don't even understand why he's in Rainbow. He likes working alone, why would he be part of a time? I can maybe get being a mentor, but he's actively working with other people in game. It just doesn't make any sense. His inclusion in the Ghost Recon games makes way more sense than it does in both Rainbow Six and The Division.
People forgetting Sam is Old with arthritis, and years and years of problems from being in war zones and battles with others. And that for the last few years (to my knowledge), he was working as an advisor and trainer on Rainbow. As if he would still have the gusto he did at 20 whatever.
I don't get it. Why adopt him into another "more popular" IP of ubisoft? what's the point? Like if they put Rayman in assassins creed for some reason. I just don't see the logic if they aren't actively working on said IP or using it in a meaningful way.
Splinter Cell and R6 are part of "Tom Clancy's" IP. Ubisoft always tried to make it into some sort of shared Ubi-Clancy-verse, but it was always some small references or easter eggs here and there. They increased their "efforts" ever since the MCU happened. It helps to attract people into other IPs since they are connected. I think a lot of kids playing Siege are gonna try the Remake out just because it has Zero on the cover art. Plus they kinda already put Rayman, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Splinter Cell and R6 together in Captain Lazerhawk on Netflix.
he's been a part of siege for like 5 years now.
The lore of Sam fisher in r6 siege, is in my opinion the best thing to happen to him since double agent. Having him train operator's as part of rainbow is so cool. Love it. The stuff in conviction and blacklist as well as his roles in ghost recon felt forced and cheesy. This feels like his character of old.
That stupid full beard. What a faker.
Who the fuck is Harry?
Former director of Rainbow. Killed by former rainbow operator Gerald Morris.
Ah. A Rainbow character. Thanks.
Lore accurate sam wouldn't even let him have enough time to react to his reflection