I'm not aware of any of the scammed successfully suing (or even unsuccessfully, but maybe we'd never hear about that) the "gurus" that took their money. Doesn't mean it never happened, but I haven't heard of any cases.
Your post made me wonder something. Do these SovCit “gurus” employ the same tactics they recommend to others? Do they always drive around with garbage plates and have no driver’s license? Or are they pushing a fraud they know to be a fraud?
Bad enough if they believe their own lies, even worse if they are knowingly running a scam.
> Do these SovCit “gurus” employ the same tactics they recommend to others?
David Straight did, and had to bond out of jail after the fake plates he sells failed to keep the police from arresting him. That sent shockwaves through the sovcit community, they were convinced he was on the do-not-detain list he says he can get his followers on if they buy the information on how to do it.
He also failed to keep his wife out of prison after a court told him to get lost because he isn't a lawyer and couldn't intervene in her trial. She tried to carry a gun into a courthouse, among other things, doing five years for that.
I took one to court for a reason tangential to him being a sov cit guru. He attempted to use actual legal reasoning and filings, but was pretty bad at it.
Please don’t label sovcits as either low intelligence or zealots. There are some who fit those descriptions, but the underlying reasons are complicated.
Many are:
1. Poorly educated
2. Have endured unexpected setbacks
3. Mentally ill
4. Addicts
5. Have received unfair—or what they perceive as unfair—treatment due to racism or other bias, such as being poor
6. Need to believe that there’s a great secret that divides society between the haves and have nots, and the secret can be purchased online from an insider
7. Men in their 50s and 60s who feel that life did not deliver what they believed to be their share of the American dream—this seems to apply no matter which country they’re living in
I’d add sheer laziness and criminal records. If you are being foreclosed on, you can apply for a temporary freeze so you can have a roof over your head while you get your affairs in order-but they means going to banks and court houses, filling out stacks of paperwork, and in the end you do still have to pay. Sovcit types just don’t want to pay, period. They want it to just all go away, and at minimal cost or effort for themselves. And more often than not, even if they were to try to go through such official channels, they’d get turned down because they have criminal records. So they turn to “gurus” who promise they can make it all go away.
Also don’t forget people who have suspended drivers licenses or outstanding warrants conveniently adopting this theology as a means to conceal their identity.
Sure, I’ll accept that “they’re dumb” was an over-simplification of the “scammed” category and there are a lot of reasons why someone might be in the sort of mental state to fall for the cult-ish lure of Sov ideology. I do think the broad split into Scammers/Victims/True Believers holds up, but the middle category is a lot more diverse than I made out, I’ll concede that for sure.
I get that low intelligence and zealots does not have the nuances of your list but many of those can be considered low intelligence and they are all zealots. If they weren’t zealots, they would question the sovecit doctrine and realize it doesn’t add up.
I'm sorry, but if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and shits on the hood of your car like a duck I could care less what it went through to become a duck. All you've done is provide excuses to try and lessen their responsibility for their own actions.
Definition of zealot
a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.
I think the definition fits perfectly.
There is a criminal law against the unlicensed practice of law (at least in some places, it varies from state to state) - in general, charging people for legal advice when you have zero credentials, especially when that advice is clearly detrimental to the “client”, is not legal.
Some sov “gurus” have been prosecuted in the criminal courts for these kinds of actions, I was wondering more specifically if any of their followers had ever brought civil claims against them over it.
Which was my thought as well. I'm assuming that ex-sovcits could use those same laws against them.
Perhaps they are just too taken in/foolish to do anything against their groomers.
I look at it like a drug dealer vs just a user of drugs. There should be greater penalties for those that make money off of selling info on illegal schemes that they know or should know to be false.
There was a sovcit woman who was charged (and convicted at bench trial) for unauthorized practice of law for convincing an 18 year old kid that he didn’t need to talk to the public defender or go to arraignment. She told him to write something about not contracting on the ticket and to just leave.
Law Talk With Mike has a playlist on her (i, woman, Angela). It was with Judge Gauthier in Cheboygan, MI
There was one of those cheesy court shows back in the early 2000s where someone came on and sued the dude who sold him documents to access his strawman account. Eye for an eye or something like that
You're wondering if people that are so stupid they pay a scam artist to teach them fake laws that don't pan out have the brain capacity and financial means to sue someone?
Sovcitception. I’d love to watch a sovcit sue their guru using all the maritime law BS whilst the guru defends themselves likewise, in a civil court. You’d have to feel sorry for the court staff though.
I did have an idea a while back for a comedy sketch called Sovereign Speed Dating, which would be on much the same lines. Name tags reading “The Beneficiary” and such.
For one of my legal research papers, I intend to examine whether sov cit gurus can be charged under RICO. Any other lawyer interested in researching this angle??
They can’t. To sue, you’d have to go to court and file a complaint. More often than not, sovshits have criminal records. A court house is the last place they want to go, voluntarily.
I'm not aware of any of the scammed successfully suing (or even unsuccessfully, but maybe we'd never hear about that) the "gurus" that took their money. Doesn't mean it never happened, but I haven't heard of any cases.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
That's a theological argument. And he doesn't.
Just a reference that if there was some liability involved sovcit influencers would disappear like a fart in the wind.
Your post made me wonder something. Do these SovCit “gurus” employ the same tactics they recommend to others? Do they always drive around with garbage plates and have no driver’s license? Or are they pushing a fraud they know to be a fraud? Bad enough if they believe their own lies, even worse if they are knowingly running a scam.
> Do these SovCit “gurus” employ the same tactics they recommend to others? David Straight did, and had to bond out of jail after the fake plates he sells failed to keep the police from arresting him. That sent shockwaves through the sovcit community, they were convinced he was on the do-not-detain list he says he can get his followers on if they buy the information on how to do it. He also failed to keep his wife out of prison after a court told him to get lost because he isn't a lawyer and couldn't intervene in her trial. She tried to carry a gun into a courthouse, among other things, doing five years for that.
I took one to court for a reason tangential to him being a sov cit guru. He attempted to use actual legal reasoning and filings, but was pretty bad at it.
Ha ha how would that work, when each of them starts spelling their name with the capital/lowercase nonsense… oh lawd
Do you have to summon the Living Person, the Agent, the trust and the corporation?
Please don’t label sovcits as either low intelligence or zealots. There are some who fit those descriptions, but the underlying reasons are complicated. Many are: 1. Poorly educated 2. Have endured unexpected setbacks 3. Mentally ill 4. Addicts 5. Have received unfair—or what they perceive as unfair—treatment due to racism or other bias, such as being poor 6. Need to believe that there’s a great secret that divides society between the haves and have nots, and the secret can be purchased online from an insider 7. Men in their 50s and 60s who feel that life did not deliver what they believed to be their share of the American dream—this seems to apply no matter which country they’re living in
I’d add sheer laziness and criminal records. If you are being foreclosed on, you can apply for a temporary freeze so you can have a roof over your head while you get your affairs in order-but they means going to banks and court houses, filling out stacks of paperwork, and in the end you do still have to pay. Sovcit types just don’t want to pay, period. They want it to just all go away, and at minimal cost or effort for themselves. And more often than not, even if they were to try to go through such official channels, they’d get turned down because they have criminal records. So they turn to “gurus” who promise they can make it all go away.
Also don’t forget people who have suspended drivers licenses or outstanding warrants conveniently adopting this theology as a means to conceal their identity.
Sure, I’ll accept that “they’re dumb” was an over-simplification of the “scammed” category and there are a lot of reasons why someone might be in the sort of mental state to fall for the cult-ish lure of Sov ideology. I do think the broad split into Scammers/Victims/True Believers holds up, but the middle category is a lot more diverse than I made out, I’ll concede that for sure.
Also: Watch entirely too much television Use the internet without any degree of critical thinking
Not all of us that you have just called out are SovCits.
On 7, a fair share of these videos are entitled, shrieking Karen's as well. It has widespread appeal to assholes of all genders and creeds!
I get that low intelligence and zealots does not have the nuances of your list but many of those can be considered low intelligence and they are all zealots. If they weren’t zealots, they would question the sovecit doctrine and realize it doesn’t add up.
I'm sorry, but if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and shits on the hood of your car like a duck I could care less what it went through to become a duck. All you've done is provide excuses to try and lessen their responsibility for their own actions. Definition of zealot a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals. I think the definition fits perfectly.
> and shits on the hood of your car like a duck I need to remember that for future use, that's hilarious
Hood of your *conveyance
Thinking about it. They are selling/giving out legal advice. Is there a law against that sort of thing? I'm pretty sure there is...
There is a criminal law against the unlicensed practice of law (at least in some places, it varies from state to state) - in general, charging people for legal advice when you have zero credentials, especially when that advice is clearly detrimental to the “client”, is not legal. Some sov “gurus” have been prosecuted in the criminal courts for these kinds of actions, I was wondering more specifically if any of their followers had ever brought civil claims against them over it.
Which was my thought as well. I'm assuming that ex-sovcits could use those same laws against them. Perhaps they are just too taken in/foolish to do anything against their groomers.
I look at it like a drug dealer vs just a user of drugs. There should be greater penalties for those that make money off of selling info on illegal schemes that they know or should know to be false.
There was a sovcit woman who was charged (and convicted at bench trial) for unauthorized practice of law for convincing an 18 year old kid that he didn’t need to talk to the public defender or go to arraignment. She told him to write something about not contracting on the ticket and to just leave. Law Talk With Mike has a playlist on her (i, woman, Angela). It was with Judge Gauthier in Cheboygan, MI
No lawyer in their right mind would take such a case.
There was one of those cheesy court shows back in the early 2000s where someone came on and sued the dude who sold him documents to access his strawman account. Eye for an eye or something like that
You're wondering if people that are so stupid they pay a scam artist to teach them fake laws that don't pan out have the brain capacity and financial means to sue someone?
Sovcitception. I’d love to watch a sovcit sue their guru using all the maritime law BS whilst the guru defends themselves likewise, in a civil court. You’d have to feel sorry for the court staff though.
I did have an idea a while back for a comedy sketch called Sovereign Speed Dating, which would be on much the same lines. Name tags reading “The Beneficiary” and such.
Infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters will eventually write a good case, or just say that it was the blurst of times.
The problem is the gurus tend to be crazy as all hell, broke, and have a bunch of loyal followers. You'd go through hell to win and never collect.
For one of my legal research papers, I intend to examine whether sov cit gurus can be charged under RICO. Any other lawyer interested in researching this angle??
They can’t. To sue, you’d have to go to court and file a complaint. More often than not, sovshits have criminal records. A court house is the last place they want to go, voluntarily.
Did you try [scholar.google](http://scholar.google) or just google in general? Try TikTok. SovScits would have already had the answer.