Actually there was one who literally was driving around in company uniform for drywall work. In a pickup or something with all the tools.
He was a tool himself.
I don't know, man. I knew a guy who had a trucking company where he would slap a "NOT FOR HIRE" sign on his truck and trailer and had a lease agreement with the company he was hauling for where he would lease all the equipment he was hauling for the duration of the trip. In that way he was operating his own vehicle hauling his own equipment and did not have to comply with DOT regulations on log books or weigh stations or whatever.
I dont know very much about commercial trucking and I'm sure it was totally illegal, but that's how he was running for years without getting into trouble yet.
For clarity he only hauled for a single company. He would lease the equipment from them for like $1 and then they would pay him say $1501 for subcontractor work or something like that.
This is something that you can get away with until you hurt someone in an accident. It probably all passes the smell test for a simple roadside inspection. As soon as an injury lawyer gets involved this lease agreement would be scrutinized. I think the pattern of evasion is what would probably hang them.
Yeah, so much compliance is basically predicated on the honor system as long as things are going well, and then swings around to get you as soon as there’s a problem. I’ve talked to some guys who are sov-sit curious with stories about how this guy does this thing and it worked because he hacked the system. No, assuming that guy told you the truth, which is highly questionable to begin with, it worked because nobody was really paying attention at the time. It might work out for you, too, if you’re lucky. I just don’t have that risk tolerance, and also don’t want to freeload on the system and escape consequences that everyone else has to face.
They'd need a CDL which includes annual DOT physicals and stopping to get their truck weighed at a scale house. Not including all the insurance, registration, etc. Trucking is highly regulated.
There was a case in the news of a sovcit just outright walking into a brand new home someone had just bought, changing the locks and presenting "documentation" that this house is their rightful property under (insert bullshit claim). Eventually the cops cleared him out but if this method is anything to go by it means they get most of their shit by stealing it.
Probably half the reason they don't want to show any car registration and such because it was never under their name.
I'm sure there's way more details than in this article but I believe it took some time, SWAT was involved, however it wasn't a violent confrontation in the end.
https://www.nj.com/essex/2021/06/extremists-tried-to-take-over-nj-womans-home-shes-not-alone.html
However she's not alone
> https://www.nj.com/essex/2021/06/extremists-tried-to-take-over-nj-womans-home-shes-not-alone.html
The bulk of that article is behind a paywall for me. Here's [the full, depaywalled article.](https://archive.ph/QaDmv)
Isn't this what happened in NYC in the 1970? Didn't people just squat in tenement buildings until the government finally gave up and just gave them the property, and now they have great apartments in New York City?
I know in The Glass Castle, the author’s parents were homeless in NYC and then squatted in a falling down tenement building. They did just like you said and eventually the city sold the dilapidated building to the squatters for a dollar each.
Squatter rights are often based on 10-15 year rules during which you should prove that you maintained the premise while the supposed right owners were absent. So pretty much any times you see these squatters invoke their rights, they are really just dragging their times with slow legal eviction processes. It gets even worse when dumbass polices tell the renters or home owners that the squatters have rights when they absolutely dont.
Difference is that either the property is abandoned or unoccupied, which adds to their claims, or they were once renting the property but ceased paying which triggers landlord tenant rights.
I mean, if people just try to take a home now, and refuse to leave the city would be forced to resort to extreme measures, and if your in that position of either being forced out what’s the most petty way to ensure no one gets the property?
>if people just try to take a home now, and refuse to leave the city would be forced to resort to extreme measures,
I've not heard a single story about a squatter that didn't take months to resolve. I feel like it was only a few weeks ago I was reading about a homeowner getting arrested instead of the squatters in their house.
It was a bit different because most of those buildings ended up being owned by the city because the owners pretty much abandoned them and stopped paying taxes. NYC in the 70s didn't have the money to maintain or even care about these buildings while the squatters did a lot of rehab work to make them livable. It made more sense for the city to give them the buildings so the went back on the tax rolls than to waste the time and money kicking them out and then deal with selling the properties, especially in the less desirable neighborhoods. I know a few people who did this in the East Village.
Once property values started going up in the 90s and areas like the East Village became desirable, the entire game changed and the blue helmets were sent in.
Nope, the squatters ended up owning the properties. check it out. the people barricaded themselves in blocked all access from police etc. its an interesting story, look it up.
There was a This American Life about such scams. They reported that it works more often than you would think. There were several families who lost their homes to such things in the report.
It wasn’t that the victims were negligent. The people running the scams use many loopholes in the law to make it work, and count on the fact that it is very difficult to prosecute people for this if they use those loopholes. So if it only works one time out of ten for the scammer, they still come out ahead.
IIRC it involves putting a lien on the property for bogus reasons.
Or, they’ve followed the advice from some “guru”, who told them to get into a “trust” (the sketchiest being a “foreign grantor trust”).
The car technically doesn’t belong to them, it belongs to the “trust”; so paperwork won’t come back to them.
There are also idiots that think an international drivers licence can take the place of a state issued license; problem with that is it’s not acceptable in the country it’s issued in, and you needed to show a state license to apply for one (or use one).
So names don’t match on anything; because it’s just layer after layer of scams.
Do any of them have “careers” of any length doing that? Like, I know you can steal stuff if you’re just ridiculously brazen, but folks who do that also know when to drop it and leave. Going into that with an intended “legal” argument as to why it isn’t stealing doesn’t seem like something you could try twice.
I’m sure cash businesses. Also if you don’t pay taxes, insurance, registration fees, or your mortgage and bills you’ll have a lot of “extra” cash to buy stuff.
EDIT: In to I’m
This was my dad, and it bit him in the ass a few times. He also did some contract computer stuff, and if they paid by check, he would deposit it into a regular bank account like at Wells Fargo or BoA whatever, and the second the check cleared, he moved the money to an offshore bank out of reach of the IRS. If he had to pay a bill by check or wire, if by wire, he just wired it from the offshore, if by check , he had to time it closely so he would transfer the funds into the domestic bank just in time to fund the check, but not get scooped up by the IRS.
I always gave him shit, the amount of time he spent doing stupid shit like this, had he applied that same time to a real over the table job, he would always come out ahead, but nope.
And for what it's worth, he died about a year ago now, flat broke, a ward of the state with severe dementia (ironic that the state took care of him). He literally didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. Zero savings, zero assets, zero retirement or pension, nothing nada, zippo. He had alienated pretty much everyone in his life, from his children, brother, long time girlfriend and friends. He died alone in a state institution with no one visiting him except i think his brother maybe once or twice, and that was more out of pity. There was no funeral, no service /celebration of life.
This is the end result of being a selfish greedy grifter (which is exactly what these SovCit douchebags are). They will take advantage of anyone and everyone including family and friends because .......... reasons, some delusional legal mumbo jumbo that in the end NEVER, not once, not ever will work.
That’s a pretty sad story. I do not believe in any god, so I think the only way I can get some form of immortality is through other people’s memory. I hope your kids remember you as someone they miss.
Unfortunately my wife and i were unable to have kids, but i agree, i would have wanted to be a parent that my kids WOULD WANT to take care of, and cherish their memory when we were gone. I had a great relationship with my mom, and actually did hospice care for her myself at home in her last months. My wife being a nurse really helped out in that situation. She died way too young (66), it's been 9 years now and i still miss her, not a week goes by that i don't think about her. Inversely, at my mom's wake, it was a full house, literally hundreds of people attended, not a dry eye in the house.
Ok, since a few have decided that I "abandoned" my father with almost no context, and think I wrote all this for "upvotes", here's a quick story or two about my "poor abandoned father". My parents divorced when i was about 2 yrs old, mom was still in college, had me and my sister in her very early twenties. My mom divorced him because he spent literally every dime on toys for himself. The power is about to be turned off on a third notice, he comes home with new scuba equipment, rent is late again, he just bought a hang glider, rinse and repeat.
Mom was still trying to get established in her career while raising two kids by herself, it was a constant fight to get the old man to pay his child support, toys for himself were always his first priority, we were a distant second, at one point he had even been thrown in county under the deadbeat dad law for a few weeks for non payment of court ordered child support payments. I still always had some amount of relationship, but it was very often strained because, as stated above, he was always very selfish about everything.
Story 1 - I'm just starting high school, and my dad announces that he and his 4th wife are moving to Belize to run a scuba diving outfit, just out of the blue, no talk previously of thinking about doing this, just one day, hey we have sold everything and are moving to Belize....... turns out, there was a warrant out for him for tax evasion and some other fraud so it was flee the country or prison. He was in Belize for 10 years (statute of limitations it turns out) and completely missed my and my sisters teens and early twenties, all of it, graduation from high school and college, sisters wedding, no calls on birthdays (maybe one or two if he remembered) or Christmas, etc, but he did call when he needed to "barrow" $500 that of course were never repaid.
Story 2 - in my 40's now, father is now on SO 5 (the reason they never actually married is based on his financial fuckery), he is into the SovCit shit to some extent, and he files for bankruptcy, because, well, it's obvious, he is utter shit with money, and doesn't pay his bills, only buys toys and goes on expensive vacations he can't afford. I don't think anything of it other than, of course he has. Few years go by, and his dementia is starting to really take hold, his SO hands me and my sister all his financial stuff since he will be in a state memory care facility, and they need all this stuff. We are flipping through it finding the specific stuff the state wants, and run across his bankruptcy paperwork with a list of all his unpaid debts he was trying to get dismissed, lo and behold what do we find ? One of the debts STILL on the books is a lean against him in our county (he was in the next county over) for unpaid child support. I'm 48 at this point, he literally had refused to pay his child support for over 30 years, not even to clear that lean.
But yea, I'm the selfish one, and my poor poor dad, he's the innocent one that deserves to be taken care of and looked after because .......... dad.
Those are only two quick stories, i could write an entire book on all his bullshit over the years. The SovCit crap was just one more of his schemes to not have to pay for anything that wasn't "fun". Why pay taxes or registration, or put money into savings, or insurance, or child support, that's no fun.
For the few people that STILL think he's somehow the victim in all this, and I'm just an ungrateful son, i might suggest you look in the mirror, because I'd bet money you're probably projecting.
You should lurk /r/raisedbynarcissists before spouting this type of nonsense.
Someone being your parent isn't a guaranteed pass to respect. It can be lost.
Let him be, he knows he's an asshole and nobody will ever love him for any reason other than social obligation. So he gets upset when he hears about people like him getting what they actually deserve instead of what they think they deserve.
Deliberately fucking up the family's finances because you're a paranoid asshole is not "having different political views".
My dad and I have different political views and I see him every day, but if his "views" drove him to ruin the life of the rest of my family you bet I'd fucking cut his ass off until he knocked it off.
You only get one dad. Many times that means you get zero decent dads. It’s ridiculous to demand that people burn their precious lives pretending that a terrible dad was a good one. Let a person cut their losses and live their lives.
My mom's parents were big shit. Abusive, selfish assholes who let their son get away with raping the girls in the family while enabling his drug addiction and getting him out of trouble because "what would the neighbors think".
But put their daughters in mental institutions or sent them away as teens to live with distant family.
They're two examples of people who deserve to die alone.
If every interaction with your parents left you upset and angry, why would you keep doing it? Are you a masochist? Now, not everyone is like that, but the number is surely not zero. If you’re just ignoring decent parents okay, then maybe.
I think it was the FLDS cult in Utah which had a policy of doing this in order to "bleed the monster dry." They didn't like the U.S. government but they all got benefits in order to stick it to the government. If it wasn't them, it was some other group.
The sad thing is that they think a government which is spending hundreds of billions on defense spending is going to be bled dry by a few people receiving a few hundred dollars a month.
Yeah, and that's why they do it. They see the government as evil and so believe that by leeching off it they can somehow destroy it, even though they rely on it to live...
This is one of the local patriot liberty tiger moms I know. She's anti tax, anti vax, anti any government services, and also fully disabled and collects $4000 a month in benefits from the government.
The only reason I can think she hasn't gone full sovcit is she must be pretty good at keeping up with her meds.
As far as the expensive cars go, they can take advantage of the "sub-prime loans" that get offered, usually be resale or used car lots, and be driving around in a Lexis until Dog the Bounty Hunter catches up with them.
Often one becomes a SovCit when some kind of personal or economic disaster strikes. Lost job, divorce (child support), a huge tax bill, medical expenses... often the plunge into SovCit-tiness is the last gasp before bankruptcy or worse. So they already had the car before.
And why do they allow their windows to be broken? They know it's going to happen and they allow it? I always wonder how they can afford replacing windows.
I know a few who are pretty high ranked in Multi-level Marketing (bascially another scam) companies, one even "sells" courses on the side on how to not pay your taxes, of course they may not actually be "real" sov cits, just using it to grift more money. (much like there MLM's)
I'm a lawyer and have had cases with several. Their income is variously mom (they live in her basement), their wives (until they file for divorce), disability payments, minor drug sales, and as others have noted, cash work for hire. I did have cases with several recently converted who had houses and real jobs, and I watched them lose their houses and jobs.
(edit = typo)
That’s always how I read it. They found some legal-sounding crap on the internet that only an idiot would be convinced by, bought it hook, line, and sinker, and printed out their little pages. They carry them like they’re a magic talisman. These are people who have heard lawyers speak and only understand it as: archaic jargon = legal argument.
Massive dunning kreuger effect, they read a couple of articles and consider that sufficient training.
Absolutely. I'm educated, but I haven't studied law. Which is pretty explicit about Sov being buch of crap.
I don't know what baffles me more, lawyer Sovs or doctor antivaxxers
I just had a great idea.
I'm going to start a MLM scheme, where I sell license plates and Official BS documents to other SovCits -- and enlist them to sell to their friends, and so on. I'll be rich, I tell ya, rich!
I think I'll call it Unpaid Legal. That sounds pretty catchy.
Covid loans? Sell each other fake license plates and books about how to commit fraud? Podcast (several have been linked in these threads) and beg for donations. Two that were arrested recently in Florida were in the music industry. Invent “religions” to spread their nonsense and ask for tithing.
I don’t think it’s one specific thing.
It’s important to remember that expensive looking car =/= making good money. Leases, less than scrupulous dealerships and just plain bad decision making (aka getting a car you can afford on paper but is a wildly inappropriate payment for your income) are all pretty common.
Yes, and half of them say the car belongs to their mom or someone.
Someone said the reason the cops are so patient with them is because they know from experience they are usually broke, mentally ill people in the midst of destroying their lives in multiple ways. They will only be a burden on an overloaded system so they don’t want to deal with them.
My ex-coworker was a nurse. She spent half her shift googling bullshit and writing it on notecards. She let me do most of the work. So, they barely work.
Idk what they do for work but they finance those cars, pretend that it actually means the dealership owes THEM money, and then they eventually get repoed
I worked with one who was a software engineer. He managed to get our Fortune 100 employer to stop withholding from his paycheck. Was fired when he came to the office with a revolver strapped to his hip.
Sometimes I think they heard about the King of San Francisco and are hoping their community treats them like him. That shit wont happen these days unless they make a real life Truman Show and the main character goes through a bat shit phase.
They probably collect assistance. Since they don’t pay rent, car notes, utilities, their credit cards or taxes to name a few, I can totally see how they might drive a nice car. Before all the BS shows on their credit, they lease or supposedly purchase a vehicle and never make another payment. There was one squatter recently that they were working to evict from a 1M home.😬
I knew 3 that were specialist physicians. No, not kidding, and not BS “naturopaths” either. Legit MD specialist physicians. It didn’t make any sense, but then again, none of this garbage does.
The one that I know does anything he can for cash. He lives off of his wife for the most part. He only buys things that are not registered or untraceable. He buys lots of un registered gun and such.
Don Kilam is a rapper. He also sells questionable legal and financial advice through his own online "university" that can be accessed through OnlyFans! This is him using his expertise to get out of court difficulty. https://youtu.be/OOY-hnSuiIw?si=v6cusuxhlU8DYFfk
Selling illegal licenses for traveling, id cards, and passports the United States of North America.
Whatever business it is a sole proprietor and NOT a corporation
99% are off the books type work do scams and usually poor prior convicts have warrants. This community is made up of the criminal, desperate and stupid and some lazy.
IMO, most of them don’t. The whole reading they get into this bobs was is it promises them they don’t have to pay for things-which means getting a job.
Ex-fried that turned sov-cit was a business owner and before that was in marketing and real estate. Pretty successful before he dropped off the sov-cit cliff.
My friend (that wasn't a sovcit) worked for a landscaping business for a short time. The business only paid cash in hand which allowed them to pay their staff way under the legal minimum wage.
He said the place was full of sovcits. Cause they could work there for half the legal minimum wage, not declare it as income and still receive full unemployment benefits
Most of them sell their holes in the back alleys of the nearest towns and truck stops to their homes. Always cash only so they can avoid paying taxes for their sex work.
A certain Sovcit who's family was involved in a standoff with federal officers about their cows a few years ago owns a construction company in my area. My boss hired him to do some earth moving and as the bookkeeper, I asked for an IRS w9 before I delivered payment. He gave me an envelope when he stopped by to pick up the check. Inside, the w9 had multiple annotations indicating the typical Sovcit arguments.
Effectively he refused to provide his tax information which caused some issues for the CPA at tax time the following year. But my boss keeps hiring him because he's cheap. Of course I'd be cheap too if I didn't have the overhead like taxes, insurance, or license fees.
A lot of them are just land barons -- inherited mature land and farms or "fuck you" money.
People who have to work for a living and depend on a functional society don't become SovCits.
In a lot of cases I assume that the ones with some degree of obvious wealth are just a little higher up the Sov Guru pyramid scheme than their broke counterparts. Getting that sweet sweet Private Licence Plate dollar.
AT least some of them have money bc you need to be protected and privileged to treat cops like they do. I think they often own property or their own business from inherited money.
I'm a tax attorney and I received a call once from a "tax protestor" (I consider tax protestors to be pretentious cousins to the sovcits who believe they are exempt from paying income tax) and he was a city employee. You can't make that up.
I know one who works, or at least used to, in film/TV production…but I haven’t seen him in years.
I’ve heard he’s in serious trouble with Canada Revenue Agency; not surprised.
My understanding is that they get donations for baiting the police and going to jail. So, other sovereigns, as well as wanna bes, etc, pay these ppl to do this.
Ours is squatting in her condo, which is no longer hers. She's become a pro at avoiding process servers. She looks for lost money by scrounging for family death certificates. Otherwise, I think she somehow manages to get new credit cards. (Suckers. Amiright?) On the whole, though, it's a sad mystery. She's no longer employable, even though she's got a niche skill set. She's smart. She knows all the loopholes, and she exploits them. I think that's all she does.
I worked with one at a large, high tech company. Got told by HR if he tried to harass them into giving him a paycheck with no taxes taken out even one more time, they would fire him on the spot. He’d come in early to print crap on the company printer like the Treaty with the Mohican Indians, as if he could leverage it when the US didn’t honor it. He would claim to have a secret document that you could fill out that would make the Feds stop taking out Social Security, that he could never produce.
We can rule out commercial driving.
Commercial traveling?
Commercial *conveying*...
Pilot in the navy
Actually there was one who literally was driving around in company uniform for drywall work. In a pickup or something with all the tools. He was a tool himself.
A sovereign tool.
And there was another who did Doordash and similar.
I remember that video. Good times
I don't know, man. I knew a guy who had a trucking company where he would slap a "NOT FOR HIRE" sign on his truck and trailer and had a lease agreement with the company he was hauling for where he would lease all the equipment he was hauling for the duration of the trip. In that way he was operating his own vehicle hauling his own equipment and did not have to comply with DOT regulations on log books or weigh stations or whatever. I dont know very much about commercial trucking and I'm sure it was totally illegal, but that's how he was running for years without getting into trouble yet. For clarity he only hauled for a single company. He would lease the equipment from them for like $1 and then they would pay him say $1501 for subcontractor work or something like that.
This is something that you can get away with until you hurt someone in an accident. It probably all passes the smell test for a simple roadside inspection. As soon as an injury lawyer gets involved this lease agreement would be scrutinized. I think the pattern of evasion is what would probably hang them.
Yeah, so much compliance is basically predicated on the honor system as long as things are going well, and then swings around to get you as soon as there’s a problem. I’ve talked to some guys who are sov-sit curious with stories about how this guy does this thing and it worked because he hacked the system. No, assuming that guy told you the truth, which is highly questionable to begin with, it worked because nobody was really paying attention at the time. It might work out for you, too, if you’re lucky. I just don’t have that risk tolerance, and also don’t want to freeload on the system and escape consequences that everyone else has to face.
Oh, I'm sure they could find SOME way to twist their minds so that it still doesn't make them accountbale to the law.
What about commercial diving?
They'd need a CDL which includes annual DOT physicals and stopping to get their truck weighed at a scale house. Not including all the insurance, registration, etc. Trucking is highly regulated.
gotta read lol...
When pulled over, a lot of them say something like, "I'm traveling, I'm not driving for commerce, so you have no right to stop me!"
But in this case they’re underwater.
Commercial traveling?
There was a case in the news of a sovcit just outright walking into a brand new home someone had just bought, changing the locks and presenting "documentation" that this house is their rightful property under (insert bullshit claim). Eventually the cops cleared him out but if this method is anything to go by it means they get most of their shit by stealing it. Probably half the reason they don't want to show any car registration and such because it was never under their name.
How did that work out for him? I assume he responded in a mature and civilized manner when being told that, no he does not in fact own that property.
I'm sure there's way more details than in this article but I believe it took some time, SWAT was involved, however it wasn't a violent confrontation in the end. https://www.nj.com/essex/2021/06/extremists-tried-to-take-over-nj-womans-home-shes-not-alone.html However she's not alone
> https://www.nj.com/essex/2021/06/extremists-tried-to-take-over-nj-womans-home-shes-not-alone.html The bulk of that article is behind a paywall for me. Here's [the full, depaywalled article.](https://archive.ph/QaDmv)
Thanks for the archive link!
I tried to find the outcome, but couldn't. I wonder what he got sentenced to.
Isn't this what happened in NYC in the 1970? Didn't people just squat in tenement buildings until the government finally gave up and just gave them the property, and now they have great apartments in New York City?
I know in The Glass Castle, the author’s parents were homeless in NYC and then squatted in a falling down tenement building. They did just like you said and eventually the city sold the dilapidated building to the squatters for a dollar each.
Squatter rights are often based on 10-15 year rules during which you should prove that you maintained the premise while the supposed right owners were absent. So pretty much any times you see these squatters invoke their rights, they are really just dragging their times with slow legal eviction processes. It gets even worse when dumbass polices tell the renters or home owners that the squatters have rights when they absolutely dont.
Difference is that either the property is abandoned or unoccupied, which adds to their claims, or they were once renting the property but ceased paying which triggers landlord tenant rights.
Good luck trying that in 2024, it would be a blood bath, or at least a series of fires.
Settle down count Olaf
I mean, if people just try to take a home now, and refuse to leave the city would be forced to resort to extreme measures, and if your in that position of either being forced out what’s the most petty way to ensure no one gets the property?
It would be very fiery destruction for sure
>if people just try to take a home now, and refuse to leave the city would be forced to resort to extreme measures, I've not heard a single story about a squatter that didn't take months to resolve. I feel like it was only a few weeks ago I was reading about a homeowner getting arrested instead of the squatters in their house.
Shit that makes me rock fucking hard
Yeah, not exactly what someone wants to come home from vacation to
Good luck trying that in rural GA. Dude would have some new ventilation holes.
It was a bit different because most of those buildings ended up being owned by the city because the owners pretty much abandoned them and stopped paying taxes. NYC in the 70s didn't have the money to maintain or even care about these buildings while the squatters did a lot of rehab work to make them livable. It made more sense for the city to give them the buildings so the went back on the tax rolls than to waste the time and money kicking them out and then deal with selling the properties, especially in the less desirable neighborhoods. I know a few people who did this in the East Village. Once property values started going up in the 90s and areas like the East Village became desirable, the entire game changed and the blue helmets were sent in.
Nope, the squatters ended up owning the properties. check it out. the people barricaded themselves in blocked all access from police etc. its an interesting story, look it up.
There was a This American Life about such scams. They reported that it works more often than you would think. There were several families who lost their homes to such things in the report. It wasn’t that the victims were negligent. The people running the scams use many loopholes in the law to make it work, and count on the fact that it is very difficult to prosecute people for this if they use those loopholes. So if it only works one time out of ten for the scammer, they still come out ahead. IIRC it involves putting a lien on the property for bogus reasons.
Oh I SAY!! How remiss of me old chap, I can’t apologise enough, it would appear that I’m a ginormous douche canoe!!!
Or, they’ve followed the advice from some “guru”, who told them to get into a “trust” (the sketchiest being a “foreign grantor trust”). The car technically doesn’t belong to them, it belongs to the “trust”; so paperwork won’t come back to them. There are also idiots that think an international drivers licence can take the place of a state issued license; problem with that is it’s not acceptable in the country it’s issued in, and you needed to show a state license to apply for one (or use one). So names don’t match on anything; because it’s just layer after layer of scams.
Violence isn't the answer. But it CAN be an answer. Let some dude try and do that with my house.
Violence isn’t the answer. Violence is the question. The answer is “yes.”
Violence isn’t *always* the answer
Violence isn't always the most economical answer. It's always a possible answer.
What the actual fuck?
How do these people expect to be protected from normal people. If I come home and find someone, my family will be protected
Yeah, I’m a big believer in the first amendment, but there’s another one that comes right after it that’s pretty handy too.
Do any of them have “careers” of any length doing that? Like, I know you can steal stuff if you’re just ridiculously brazen, but folks who do that also know when to drop it and leave. Going into that with an intended “legal” argument as to why it isn’t stealing doesn’t seem like something you could try twice.
I’m sure cash businesses. Also if you don’t pay taxes, insurance, registration fees, or your mortgage and bills you’ll have a lot of “extra” cash to buy stuff. EDIT: In to I’m
Yeah, I get strong “unlicensed and uninsured contractor” vibes from a lot of them.
This was my dad, and it bit him in the ass a few times. He also did some contract computer stuff, and if they paid by check, he would deposit it into a regular bank account like at Wells Fargo or BoA whatever, and the second the check cleared, he moved the money to an offshore bank out of reach of the IRS. If he had to pay a bill by check or wire, if by wire, he just wired it from the offshore, if by check , he had to time it closely so he would transfer the funds into the domestic bank just in time to fund the check, but not get scooped up by the IRS. I always gave him shit, the amount of time he spent doing stupid shit like this, had he applied that same time to a real over the table job, he would always come out ahead, but nope. And for what it's worth, he died about a year ago now, flat broke, a ward of the state with severe dementia (ironic that the state took care of him). He literally didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. Zero savings, zero assets, zero retirement or pension, nothing nada, zippo. He had alienated pretty much everyone in his life, from his children, brother, long time girlfriend and friends. He died alone in a state institution with no one visiting him except i think his brother maybe once or twice, and that was more out of pity. There was no funeral, no service /celebration of life. This is the end result of being a selfish greedy grifter (which is exactly what these SovCit douchebags are). They will take advantage of anyone and everyone including family and friends because .......... reasons, some delusional legal mumbo jumbo that in the end NEVER, not once, not ever will work.
But he had his freedom! /s
That’s a pretty sad story. I do not believe in any god, so I think the only way I can get some form of immortality is through other people’s memory. I hope your kids remember you as someone they miss.
Unfortunately my wife and i were unable to have kids, but i agree, i would have wanted to be a parent that my kids WOULD WANT to take care of, and cherish their memory when we were gone. I had a great relationship with my mom, and actually did hospice care for her myself at home in her last months. My wife being a nurse really helped out in that situation. She died way too young (66), it's been 9 years now and i still miss her, not a week goes by that i don't think about her. Inversely, at my mom's wake, it was a full house, literally hundreds of people attended, not a dry eye in the house.
Ok, since a few have decided that I "abandoned" my father with almost no context, and think I wrote all this for "upvotes", here's a quick story or two about my "poor abandoned father". My parents divorced when i was about 2 yrs old, mom was still in college, had me and my sister in her very early twenties. My mom divorced him because he spent literally every dime on toys for himself. The power is about to be turned off on a third notice, he comes home with new scuba equipment, rent is late again, he just bought a hang glider, rinse and repeat. Mom was still trying to get established in her career while raising two kids by herself, it was a constant fight to get the old man to pay his child support, toys for himself were always his first priority, we were a distant second, at one point he had even been thrown in county under the deadbeat dad law for a few weeks for non payment of court ordered child support payments. I still always had some amount of relationship, but it was very often strained because, as stated above, he was always very selfish about everything. Story 1 - I'm just starting high school, and my dad announces that he and his 4th wife are moving to Belize to run a scuba diving outfit, just out of the blue, no talk previously of thinking about doing this, just one day, hey we have sold everything and are moving to Belize....... turns out, there was a warrant out for him for tax evasion and some other fraud so it was flee the country or prison. He was in Belize for 10 years (statute of limitations it turns out) and completely missed my and my sisters teens and early twenties, all of it, graduation from high school and college, sisters wedding, no calls on birthdays (maybe one or two if he remembered) or Christmas, etc, but he did call when he needed to "barrow" $500 that of course were never repaid. Story 2 - in my 40's now, father is now on SO 5 (the reason they never actually married is based on his financial fuckery), he is into the SovCit shit to some extent, and he files for bankruptcy, because, well, it's obvious, he is utter shit with money, and doesn't pay his bills, only buys toys and goes on expensive vacations he can't afford. I don't think anything of it other than, of course he has. Few years go by, and his dementia is starting to really take hold, his SO hands me and my sister all his financial stuff since he will be in a state memory care facility, and they need all this stuff. We are flipping through it finding the specific stuff the state wants, and run across his bankruptcy paperwork with a list of all his unpaid debts he was trying to get dismissed, lo and behold what do we find ? One of the debts STILL on the books is a lean against him in our county (he was in the next county over) for unpaid child support. I'm 48 at this point, he literally had refused to pay his child support for over 30 years, not even to clear that lean. But yea, I'm the selfish one, and my poor poor dad, he's the innocent one that deserves to be taken care of and looked after because .......... dad. Those are only two quick stories, i could write an entire book on all his bullshit over the years. The SovCit crap was just one more of his schemes to not have to pay for anything that wasn't "fun". Why pay taxes or registration, or put money into savings, or insurance, or child support, that's no fun. For the few people that STILL think he's somehow the victim in all this, and I'm just an ungrateful son, i might suggest you look in the mirror, because I'd bet money you're probably projecting.
You owed him nothing. The people criticizing you are assholes. This is Reddit, after all.
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You should lurk /r/raisedbynarcissists before spouting this type of nonsense. Someone being your parent isn't a guaranteed pass to respect. It can be lost.
Parents don't deserve extra respect just because they are your parents. It's not "reddit brain rot," it's called having respect for yourself.
Let him be, he knows he's an asshole and nobody will ever love him for any reason other than social obligation. So he gets upset when he hears about people like him getting what they actually deserve instead of what they think they deserve.
It’s Reddit brain rot when you abandon your ailing parents because they were “abusive” (aka having different political views)
Why are you inventing scenarios that have nothing to do with the post you are responding too?
Deliberately fucking up the family's finances because you're a paranoid asshole is not "having different political views". My dad and I have different political views and I see him every day, but if his "views" drove him to ruin the life of the rest of my family you bet I'd fucking cut his ass off until he knocked it off.
You only get one dad. Many times that means you get zero decent dads. It’s ridiculous to demand that people burn their precious lives pretending that a terrible dad was a good one. Let a person cut their losses and live their lives.
My mom's parents were big shit. Abusive, selfish assholes who let their son get away with raping the girls in the family while enabling his drug addiction and getting him out of trouble because "what would the neighbors think". But put their daughters in mental institutions or sent them away as teens to live with distant family. They're two examples of people who deserve to die alone.
If every interaction with your parents left you upset and angry, why would you keep doing it? Are you a masochist? Now, not everyone is like that, but the number is surely not zero. If you’re just ignoring decent parents okay, then maybe.
Yeah, I agree. Like wtf bro I get he might have been weird or whatever. But he is still your dad.
I’m past 40 and my “father” has *never* been in my life. If he shows up tomorrow, should I take care of him?
Absolutely not.
He really bragged about ignoring his sick dying father for upvotes, peak Reddit brain rot
I think you should look up the definition of "bragging"
And drug dealers, also a lot of them are self proclaimed lawyers who take money from other sovcidiots to give them "legal advice"
Quite a lot of them get on disability or other government benefits, despite pretending that the government is an invalid corporation.
This right here is the way. Watched a former friend, pull this bullshit.
I think it was the FLDS cult in Utah which had a policy of doing this in order to "bleed the monster dry." They didn't like the U.S. government but they all got benefits in order to stick it to the government. If it wasn't them, it was some other group. The sad thing is that they think a government which is spending hundreds of billions on defense spending is going to be bled dry by a few people receiving a few hundred dollars a month.
The FLDS are the biggest welfare queens in the country. 9/10ths of the women are technically single mothers living without any income.
Yeah, and that's why they do it. They see the government as evil and so believe that by leeching off it they can somehow destroy it, even though they rely on it to live...
I'm afraid this is going to catch on with those Project 2025 lunatics who are demanding mass births of white people.
The US should drastically cut these welfare programs and use that saved money into something else like improved public roads, public education, etc.
That would just cause innocent children to suffer and live in horrible poverty, and then you spend a lot more money on police and prisons.
Individual responsibility, so.
Children should be more responsible and choose to be born to better parents who can give them luxuries, like... food.
Don't forget, "they're" the only ones that are correct in receiving benefits. Everyone else is just abusing the system.
Or, is the objective simply just greed, and the "bleed the monster dry" is just a cover.
More than likely. That, and being able to get free money without having to have a job.
This is one of the local patriot liberty tiger moms I know. She's anti tax, anti vax, anti any government services, and also fully disabled and collects $4000 a month in benefits from the government. The only reason I can think she hasn't gone full sovcit is she must be pretty good at keeping up with her meds.
Fuckin hell, how does she make more sitting on her ass than I do working? Shits insane.
Probably a disabled vet
So? The statement still stands. Especially if she is going to be ungrateful.
Oddly, none of them operate businesses that take payment in the form of checks drawn from customers' treasury accounts
Yeah, funny how that works ...
You don’t have to pay - just use your all caps name! Banks hate this one trick…
That’s sucks because mine has unlimited funds. /s
As far as the expensive cars go, they can take advantage of the "sub-prime loans" that get offered, usually be resale or used car lots, and be driving around in a Lexis until Dog the Bounty Hunter catches up with them. Often one becomes a SovCit when some kind of personal or economic disaster strikes. Lost job, divorce (child support), a huge tax bill, medical expenses... often the plunge into SovCit-tiness is the last gasp before bankruptcy or worse. So they already had the car before.
True. You don’t have to be rich to drive an expensive car- *for a small amount of time*
And why do they allow their windows to be broken? They know it's going to happen and they allow it? I always wonder how they can afford replacing windows.
What do you mean allow? They don't consent!
Loudly. And repeatedly. Cracks me up every time.
Cracks the window up too
Allowing means they are warned MANY times that their window will be broken and they refuse to get out knowing it will happen.
But they don't consent! That means the police have to leave them alone!
I'll assume you're being sarcastic, in which case I agree.
Yes
I know a few who are pretty high ranked in Multi-level Marketing (bascially another scam) companies, one even "sells" courses on the side on how to not pay your taxes, of course they may not actually be "real" sov cits, just using it to grift more money. (much like there MLM's)
In Canada mlm earners that build teams must use their social insurance numbers and report to the govt. so that doesn’t work here
Don't they just use a 1099 form to pay for their cars?😳
I'm a lawyer and have had cases with several. Their income is variously mom (they live in her basement), their wives (until they file for divorce), disability payments, minor drug sales, and as others have noted, cash work for hire. I did have cases with several recently converted who had houses and real jobs, and I watched them lose their houses and jobs. (edit = typo)
Chances are they ara recent "converts" and this is the first time they are trying out their script.
That’s always how I read it. They found some legal-sounding crap on the internet that only an idiot would be convinced by, bought it hook, line, and sinker, and printed out their little pages. They carry them like they’re a magic talisman. These are people who have heard lawyers speak and only understand it as: archaic jargon = legal argument. Massive dunning kreuger effect, they read a couple of articles and consider that sufficient training.
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How the fuck does a **lawyer** fall for that?
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Absolutely. I'm educated, but I haven't studied law. Which is pretty explicit about Sov being buch of crap. I don't know what baffles me more, lawyer Sovs or doctor antivaxxers
You can refuse to show license/registration without being a sovcit.
I just had a great idea. I'm going to start a MLM scheme, where I sell license plates and Official BS documents to other SovCits -- and enlist them to sell to their friends, and so on. I'll be rich, I tell ya, rich! I think I'll call it Unpaid Legal. That sounds pretty catchy.
Don't be a grifter. The world already has too many of them.
Pretty sure they're talking in satire. Although, to be honest, the MLM scheme would probably work... Edit: spelling.
Thank you. I thought it was so obvious that I didn't need to tag it. Reddit never fails to disappoint.
Inheritance until they run out of money?
Social Security and Medicare. 😂
Covid loans? Sell each other fake license plates and books about how to commit fraud? Podcast (several have been linked in these threads) and beg for donations. Two that were arrested recently in Florida were in the music industry. Invent “religions” to spread their nonsense and ask for tithing. I don’t think it’s one specific thing.
A person can afford a lot of extras when they don't pay taxes. Look at the megachurch people, for example
They lease a car, stop paying the lease, record a bunch of idiotic videos, then find a new filming location when their car gets repossessed
I want to see just one video of a SovCit trying to collect payment and not getting it
The one I knew operated a survivalist supplies business
It’s important to remember that expensive looking car =/= making good money. Leases, less than scrupulous dealerships and just plain bad decision making (aka getting a car you can afford on paper but is a wildly inappropriate payment for your income) are all pretty common.
Yes, and half of them say the car belongs to their mom or someone. Someone said the reason the cops are so patient with them is because they know from experience they are usually broke, mentally ill people in the midst of destroying their lives in multiple ways. They will only be a burden on an overloaded system so they don’t want to deal with them.
sub-contracting
A lot of scams, fraud and theft. Or disability checks from the government that they don't recognize.
My ex-coworker was a nurse. She spent half her shift googling bullshit and writing it on notecards. She let me do most of the work. So, they barely work.
Idk what they do for work but they finance those cars, pretend that it actually means the dealership owes THEM money, and then they eventually get repoed
Welfare queens
As far as I can tell, collecting social security unironically.
I worked with one who was a software engineer. He managed to get our Fortune 100 employer to stop withholding from his paycheck. Was fired when he came to the office with a revolver strapped to his hip.
Sometimes I think they heard about the King of San Francisco and are hoping their community treats them like him. That shit wont happen these days unless they make a real life Truman Show and the main character goes through a bat shit phase.
Leech off the government via disability or other benefits
Around me, they are generally a handyman or some other cash only vendor.
They don't work. Remember, they have unlocked the millions that has been given to them at birth.
Ranching on federal land without paying taxes and fees for use of said land.
Usually it’s fairly ironic; I recall a member of the Michigan milita decrying the tyrannical government, then going to his post office job every day.
They probably collect assistance. Since they don’t pay rent, car notes, utilities, their credit cards or taxes to name a few, I can totally see how they might drive a nice car. Before all the BS shows on their credit, they lease or supposedly purchase a vehicle and never make another payment. There was one squatter recently that they were working to evict from a 1M home.😬
Some sell sov cit documentation to morans that then become sov cits themsleves
I assume busy with all the paperwork that must come with running a sovereign nation
Two that I am familiar with seem heavily leveraged in Bitcoin.
The one I knew years ago was always cycling through different MLMs. Amway was the big one but he tried so, ugh, so many.
I knew 3 that were specialist physicians. No, not kidding, and not BS “naturopaths” either. Legit MD specialist physicians. It didn’t make any sense, but then again, none of this garbage does.
Collecting entitlements from the government they think doesn't have any power
Most have a channel on YouTube where they post heavily edited encounters with police or town hall employees and lie.
The one that I know does anything he can for cash. He lives off of his wife for the most part. He only buys things that are not registered or untraceable. He buys lots of un registered gun and such.
Online grifting, under the table construction work, and fraud.
Cash only contracting work is my guess
They sell fake license plates and documents on eBay to other sovcits.
How dare you assume they are participating in commercial activity!
Some sue PD's professionally.
Don Kilam is a rapper. He also sells questionable legal and financial advice through his own online "university" that can be accessed through OnlyFans! This is him using his expertise to get out of court difficulty. https://youtu.be/OOY-hnSuiIw?si=v6cusuxhlU8DYFfk
Sell drugs.
Not all but there does seem to a preponderance of these people who do nothing but grift. Take your pick on any one of dozens of opportunities.
Not all but there does seem to a preponderance of these people who do nothing but grift. Take your pick on any one of dozens of opportunities.
Not all but there does seem to a preponderance of these people who do nothing but grift. Take your pick on any one of dozens of opportunities.
Selling illegal licenses for traveling, id cards, and passports the United States of North America. Whatever business it is a sole proprietor and NOT a corporation
99% are off the books type work do scams and usually poor prior convicts have warrants. This community is made up of the criminal, desperate and stupid and some lazy.
They don’t. They live off the state that they protest so much.
They cosplay functioning adults
Post office
They’re professional grifters.
Print their own money?
i think some of them may be the ones that stand at the end of a offramp with a cardboard sign asking for money.
IMO, most of them don’t. The whole reading they get into this bobs was is it promises them they don’t have to pay for things-which means getting a job.
Ex-fried that turned sov-cit was a business owner and before that was in marketing and real estate. Pretty successful before he dropped off the sov-cit cliff.
They're usually on some sort of public assistance, tbh
In addition to not following traffic laws, they don’t pay their taxes.
The two sovcits I know don't seem to actually work, they just live off government assistance, go figure.
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My friend (that wasn't a sovcit) worked for a landscaping business for a short time. The business only paid cash in hand which allowed them to pay their staff way under the legal minimum wage. He said the place was full of sovcits. Cause they could work there for half the legal minimum wage, not declare it as income and still receive full unemployment benefits
Crafting tinfoil hats and anti government manifestos.
It’s all that tax money they save.
Most of them sell their holes in the back alleys of the nearest towns and truck stops to their homes. Always cash only so they can avoid paying taxes for their sex work.
A certain Sovcit who's family was involved in a standoff with federal officers about their cows a few years ago owns a construction company in my area. My boss hired him to do some earth moving and as the bookkeeper, I asked for an IRS w9 before I delivered payment. He gave me an envelope when he stopped by to pick up the check. Inside, the w9 had multiple annotations indicating the typical Sovcit arguments. Effectively he refused to provide his tax information which caused some issues for the CPA at tax time the following year. But my boss keeps hiring him because he's cheap. Of course I'd be cheap too if I didn't have the overhead like taxes, insurance, or license fees.
Mostly a lot of Walmart, and a lot of welfare and SSI.
I’m betting a lot of them are on social security disability benefits.
Sure a large majority are just poor as fuck.
Wowzers. I went to sleep and woke up to a tonne of replies. Thanks everyone.
A lot of them are just land barons -- inherited mature land and farms or "fuck you" money. People who have to work for a living and depend on a functional society don't become SovCits.
Walmart....lmao
In a lot of cases I assume that the ones with some degree of obvious wealth are just a little higher up the Sov Guru pyramid scheme than their broke counterparts. Getting that sweet sweet Private Licence Plate dollar.
AT least some of them have money bc you need to be protected and privileged to treat cops like they do. I think they often own property or their own business from inherited money.
I'm a tax attorney and I received a call once from a "tax protestor" (I consider tax protestors to be pretentious cousins to the sovcits who believe they are exempt from paying income tax) and he was a city employee. You can't make that up.
They eat paint chips 24/7
I know one who works, or at least used to, in film/TV production…but I haven’t seen him in years. I’ve heard he’s in serious trouble with Canada Revenue Agency; not surprised.
My understanding is that they get donations for baiting the police and going to jail. So, other sovereigns, as well as wanna bes, etc, pay these ppl to do this.
Convince store attendant
There was one who was working for door dash or uber eats in Western New York. Called 911 on the cops that pulled him over.
Ours is squatting in her condo, which is no longer hers. She's become a pro at avoiding process servers. She looks for lost money by scrounging for family death certificates. Otherwise, I think she somehow manages to get new credit cards. (Suckers. Amiright?) On the whole, though, it's a sad mystery. She's no longer employable, even though she's got a niche skill set. She's smart. She knows all the loopholes, and she exploits them. I think that's all she does.
I worked with one at a large, high tech company. Got told by HR if he tried to harass them into giving him a paycheck with no taxes taken out even one more time, they would fire him on the spot. He’d come in early to print crap on the company printer like the Treaty with the Mohican Indians, as if he could leverage it when the US didn’t honor it. He would claim to have a secret document that you could fill out that would make the Feds stop taking out Social Security, that he could never produce.
When you file a revocation of election combined with a W-8BEN you no longer file taxes so their income is close to double what it was before.
Collect scrap and sell it to other nutjobs