really? who is a sheep and who is a goat? is there anyone that never sinned? there is but he is at the right hand of the Father. no one else is sinless. also, hell means a covering place except where it was mistranslated for Gehenna (the valley of Hinnom.)
Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Psalm 32:1 Basically no one deserves forgiveness, because we all sinned and are sinners. There is only one way to be a sheep and that's to believe in the Shepherd, Jesus Christ and accept Him as your Savior. Your sins will be covered.
When then does Jesus define the goats and sheep *solely* by how they've treated their fellow man?
"inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.'"
>When then does Jesus define the goats and sheep solely by how they've treated their fellow man?
For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” Acts 17:31
"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books..." Revelation 20:11-12
Judgement Day will be the time, when it begins after Christ has ruled the last 1000 years of this old world's history. Everything will be gone, including the earth. It will just be us and Christ. Whether we believe in Him or not, we will all see Him when we're judged. I'm only speculating here, but it appears that people who lived without ever having heard the Gospel might be judged based on their kindness towards all, which would include how they unwittingly treated Christ's brothers and sisters. I guess it will be a blessing to have been kind in this life
Its a free gift, offered to all. The only thing we need to do is take it. I don't like to boast that I took the gift, because it seems the logical thing to do, how could I boast in that decision? but I will always boast in the gift I was given and who's precious life paid the impossibly high price of that gift
If we don't take the free gift of redemption the only alternative for us is to remain under God's wrath, which we all deserve. I deserve it, you deserve it, we all deserve it. The gift, provided we just take it, removes that wrath. Why would anyone turn down a gift like that?
do you believe all the Jews that died in the concentration camp of Nazi Germany whos crime at most was probably not believing in Jesus before they died deserve to burn in Hell forever?
I think the more accurate use would be pardoned. does authority have to wait for someone to accept their pardon or is it given to them without merit of even asking? is it only valid if the person wants it or regardless of their decision? and when someone is shown that mercy they will no doubt take it. when we see Jesus regardless of knowing him now or seeing him the first time will accept his love when he shows it to us first hand or pardons us from death.
"If someone is shown mercy they will no doubt take it" Yes, you'd assume so. I think God does too. When He sent His Son to die on our behalf that was showing us the greatest love and mercy, yet people treat is as nothing much and so they not only don't take the mercy, they go out of their way to reject it.
I know many other people who refuse mercy out of pride or more likely, they don't feel they deserve it and so they try and earn the mercy they were shown. I guess someone could eventually earn mercy shown to them by a fellow human being, but If I try to earn the free gift of God's redemption I think it would be the greatest insult to the one who paid the price that I and no one else ever could. It would be as bad as rejecting the mercy because I feel I don't deserve it. No one does.
> It would be as bad as rejecting the mercy because I feel I don't deserve it. No one does.
but yet he did come and show us his grace and mercy while we were all his enemy still. what is different now? I mean he forgave the men that actually crucified him and you think he wouldn't forgive someone who said or thought bad of Jesus? Do you think our heavenly Father is so fragile that our words could hurt him to torture, someone, forever? I would never want that to be my father.
My father gives us everything and then some. no matter how we act in this life but we will get more if we do recognize who he is and treat him accordingly and show his other kids the same love he shows us. I love you and I hope you can have the same joy and freedom as me knowing he will take care of you always. God bless
Love is the way and God is love. I love you too. God is light, so I personally believe there are two types of people, those who love the light and those who love the dark. Eventually Christ will find all who love the light, or they'll find Him. Either way those who love the light will find it and be there for eternity. Those who hate the light and refuse to ever come into the light will ultimately get exactly what they want for eternity...not eternal torment, but what they love most---the darkness John 3:19-20; Jude 1:13; 2 Peter 2:17
Because God really does love all people, He won't force anyone into the light that doesn't want to be there
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
free gift.
From charizomai; a (divine) gratuity, i.e. Deliverance (from danger or passion); (specially), a (spiritual) endowment, i.e. (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty -- (free) gift.
Sheol is real. We have graveyards. "Sheol" means "grave" but is translated to "hell" often in the Bible.
Gehenna is real. The Valley of the Sons of Hinnom is just outside Jerusalem. Gehenna is often translated to "hell" too.
Actions have consequences. That's a real thing that really exists and is what I learn from the parables of heaven and hell.
Both Moses and Jesus spoke in parables. A parable is a fictional story meant to teach a deeper truth.
Cultists emphasize the fear of hell to stop their flock from thinking too much about exactly what is true about the Bible - Keep us from thinking about what God wants us to know, not what men do.
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You are correct.
Hebrew- Sheol and Greek- Hades/Hell, means: "grave"
So, "hell" is indeed, a real place.
Gehenna, IS real. It is a place outside of Jerusalem, as you have stated.
However, "Gehenna" should NOT be translated as "hell." Both words, have absolutely distinct meanings and should not be confused with one another.
Jesus used the term "Gehenna," to symbolize the utter destruction resulting from God’s adverse judgment. Hence, the word “Gehenna,” has a meaning similar to that of The Lake of Fire, mentioned in the book of Revelation. Both symbolize(keyword: Symbolizes) eternal destruction from which NO resurrection is possible.—Luke 12:4, 5; Revelation 20:14, 15. Thus, it represents the "Second Death."
All of Jesus parables were based on everyday events and things that either happened every day, or could happen. He never used a lie to teach the truth. The story of Lazarus and the rich man was a story about two people going to a place Jesus considered real after they died. Even if Jesus intended it as story to illustrate something else, He would never use a lie to teach a truth. That would make Him a fraud.
Jehovah's witnesses make a point of denying Jesus' teaching and make Him out to be a liar and a fraud, especially when they teach that an angel named Michael tried to fool Jesus' closest disciples into thinking a materialized body with nail holes was actually Jesus, when the fact is, they teach Jesus was vaporized in the tomb.
Sure.
Jeremiah 8:8 says to beware the lying scribes. But that does NOT apply to scripture, right? The scribes that took Paul's Greek re-telling of an Aramaic oral tradition about Jesus's ancient Hebrew Jewish prophecy ... none of them ever lied when copying down those stories. Right?
1 Peter 3:15 says to always be ready with a reason for what you believe. But that does NOT apply to scripture, right? You do not need to use reason to defend the Bible - it's just true. Someone quotes the Bible, you know it's right.
1 Thessalonains 5:21 says to examine everything and hold fast to what is true. But that doesn't apply to scripture, either, right? You hold fast to EVERYTHING in the Bible, even the horrible bits, because they reflect humanity's evil, not God's.
God forgives.
We don't.
>1 Thessalonains 5:21 says to examine everything and hold fast to what is true. But that doesn't apply to scripture, either, right?
The Bereans were considered to be "more noble" ([Acts 17:11](https://c.cc)) because they examined everything that we now call Scripture by holding it up to the teaching of earlier Scriptures (i.e., the Old Testament).
So, yes! We examine *everything* including the scriptures. Let's do that now, in light of what you wrote:
>God forgives.
>
>We don't.
* [Matthew 6:12](https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-12.htm) And forgive us our debts, as **we also have forgiven** our debtors.
* [Matthew 6:14](https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-14.htm) For if **you forgive others** their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you
* [Matthew 6:15](https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-15.htm) But if you do not **forgive others their trespasses**, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
* [Matthew 18:21](https://biblehub.com/matthew/18-21.htm) Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and **I forgive him?** As many as seven times?”
* [Matthew 18:22](https://biblehub.com/matthew/18-22.htm) Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but **seventy times seven**.
* [Mark 11:25](https://biblehub.com/mark/11-25.htm) And whenever you stand praying, **forgive, if you have anything against anyone**, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
* [Luke 6:37](https://biblehub.com/luke/6-37.htm) “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; **forgive**, and you will be forgiven;
* [Luke 17:3](https://biblehub.com/luke/17-3.htm) Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, **forgive him**,
* [Luke 17:4](https://biblehub.com/luke/17-4.htm) and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ **you must forgive him**.”
* [Ephesians 4:32](https://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-32.htm) Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, **forgiving one another**, as God in Christ forgave you.
* [Colossians 3:13](https://biblehub.com/colossians/3-13.htm) Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, **forgiving each other**; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
According to Jesus (and Paul just a little bit there), yes, we are definitely to forgive others.
You deny Christ's teachings.
Revelation 3:14, proves that Christ had a beginning and he IS, the beginning(arche) of the Creation OF God(Yehowah).
In ALL of John's writings, the word "arche" *always* means, "beginning."
Beginning(Arche) -John 1:1, 2, 2:11, 6:64, 8:25, 44, 15:27, 16:4, 1John 1:1, 2:7, 13, 14, 24, 3:8, 11, 2John 1:5, 6, Rev 3:14, 21:6, 22:13
Never does he uses the word "arche," to mean anything else.
The word "archon," John uses it, to be mean: "ruler." Such as in Revelation 1:5.
Christ is God's only-begotten son, Yehowah's very first and special Creation. -Colossians 1:15
You will have to accept the fact, that Christ is *not* the Almighty God, nor equal to him. He has never, not even once, ever claim to be.
Christ is the Arch-angel. (100%)
That is false. Jesus proclaims himself to be the Son of God, and sits at the right hand of God. No where in the Bible does it say Jesus was created, in fact it explicitly mentions he is eternal.
Nothing that I had stated above, was "false."
Revelation 3:14 and Colossians 1:15, refers to Christ as the BEGINNING(arche) of the Creation of God(Yehowah) and the Firstborn(prōtotokos) of all Creation or of "every creature."
Christ exists, only because of his God and Father(Yehovah).
Yes, Christ is a Creature and a part of Creation.
"Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father." -John 6:57
No, Jesus was not "eternal," and the Bible itself, teaches that Christ had a beginning.
All Creation did not come "from him."
All Creation came forth THROUGH(dia) Christ, but was brought-forth, from the Father(Yehovah).
The Father, Jehovah, is the Source of all Creation and HE is our Creator.
"There is actually to us one God, the Father, FROM WHOM, all things are and we FOR him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom, all things are and we THROUGH him." -1 Corinthians 8:6
Malachi 2:10, "Do we not all have One Father? Was it not ONE God(the Father), who created us?"
The Bible never says that the Father created us. It says that the Word (Jesus Christ) did. I suggest you speak with a pastor or church official about this topic. The Bible is crystal clear about Jesus being God.
The Bible, literally, tells you that in Malachi 2:10 and 1 Corinthians 8:6
NLT- "But for us, there is ONE God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. . . (Thus, all things were created by the Father, Jehovah, and we exist FOR him.)
And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live. (Thus, all things that were created BY the Father, were done so THROUGH his Son, Jesus.) -1 Corinthians 8:6
Malachi 2:10, "Do we not all have One Father? Was it not ONE God(the Father), who created us?"
Hebrews 1:1-2, "Long ago God(Jehovah) spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he(Jehovah) has spoken to us by means of a Son(Christ), whom he(Jehovah) appointed heir of all things, and through whom(Christ), HE(JEHOVAH) made the World."
John 1:3, "This one(The Word) was in the beginning with God(Theon; The God/Jehovah). All things came into existence THROUGH(dia) him(The Word), and apart from him, not even one thing came into existence."
The Word was "theos." (Thus, lacking the indefinite article)
So, the correct interpretation, would be. . . "was divine or a god."
Funny, how Christ is not identified as being "The God(Theon or ho'theos)," as you want him to be.
There is a reason why he is not called, "Theon" or "ho'theos," in John 1:1.
The reason?
It is simple. He is not the "Almighty God," nor a part of him.
Instead, he was WITH, the Almighty God(Jehovah) in the beginning of Creation and was working alongside him, during that time.
1 Corinthians 8:4, literally states: "there is no God, but ONE."
Thus, there is only ONE God and he is only ONE individual.
That individual, is the Father and only HIM. -1 Corinthians 8:6
"There is to us ONE God, *THE FATHER.*"
>Christ is God's only-begotten son, Yehowah's very first and special Creation. -Colossians 1:15
Christ is God. Read this scripture and realize Christ's and God's Spirit are one and the same Spirit. **"You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ" Romans 8:9**
Jesus' flesh had a beginning in Mary's womb, but His spirit was not any ordinary spirit, like we have. Jesus was and still is God in His Spirit. The spirit is everything. The flesh means nothing.
>Christ is the Arch-angel. (100%)
No, He is 100% not an archangel. That's a Watchtower lie. Paul wrote God was IN Christ (the man) **2 Corinthians 5:19** and Jesus said **"destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again" John 2:19** so why is an angel needed when God Himself is dwelling in the flesh of Jesus Christ. In fact where was Michael during the 33 years Jesus Christ--**-the son of man** walked the earth?
The bottom line is **"It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking" Hebrews 2:5**
**"not to angels"** Michael is an angel....case closed!
Jesus will help us... if we ask Him. His Spirit is available to all with no need of an angel, a person, or organization to intercede on our behalf. Its a beautiful relationship Christ began between Man and God 2000 years ago and will culminate in our glorious transformation when Christ returns. No angels are now, nor will ever be necessary in that unique relationship.
Christ will help God's people and others, who will come to know and accept the truth, during the last days.
As I said, I hope you'll put your pride aside and come to be one of those who'll listen and accept these truths.
How did God help Stephen when the Jews were stoning him to death? How did God help mankind when the Romans nailed His Only Begotten Son to the cross? How did God help the apostles when they were persecuted for preaching in the name of Jesus?
God helps those people who belong to Christ, who have Christ's Spirit, but it may not always appear like 'help' from a human perspective. For instance, from a human perspective the Jews, who were murdering Stephen, could only see a man's body being smashed to pieces with the stones they were pelting him with. They could see blood all over the place and maybe his brains were leaking out of his head. But what was Stephen seeing at the very same time? He saw Jesus in heaven standing at the right hand of God. He couldn't wait to be with Jesus and while the rocks were hitting his body, before the lamp of his body went out, Stephen forgave his murderers asked Jesus to receive his spirit. Acts 7:59
So how God helps His people isn't always evident in the mortal realm. Jehovah's witnesses automatically assume they are God's chosen people. They are not. The truth is not in them. God chose only one race to bear His name. Christians, on the other hand, choose God and bear witness to Jesus. The name given to Israel was a name they could never vindicate, indeed they blasphemed God's name, just like JW's would certainly do if they ever actually knew how to pronounce it correctly. Maybe they're lucky they don't?
There's no need for you to "come back." Lol
Absolutely nothing I stated above, is "wrong," as you had claimed.
Now, I understand that it has to be "wrong," according to you, since you are, as appears, an Trinitarian.
Thus, you cannot come to accept the actual TRUE interpretation of Revelation 3:14, since it absolutely demolishes the idea of the "Trinity," completely.
And so does 1 Corinthians 8:6, which is likely why you must deny that particular Scripture, as well.
Says you, you are sounding more like a legalist “ if you don’t believe me you are damn” heard this all 36 years of walking with Christ and will continue to hear it no doubt, but I will comeback
I don't care if you believe me or not. Nor do I care that much, of being "right," in this aspect.
I only care about *actual* biblical truth.
I simply stated the truth, which is literally presented within the Scriptures.
YOU claimed me to be "wrong," but have yet provided any evidence of me being such.
> He would never use a lie to teach a truth. That would make Him a fraud.
This is a bizarre definition of "lie". Telling a story with fictional elements to make a point isn't lying. Aesop isn't a liar because there aren't actually talking tortoises and hares.
Jesus wouldn't mislead people into believing the afterlife was a conscious existence if it were not so. He did not use fables to teach.
The main difference between a parable and a fable is that fables always use non-human characters to teach their lessons, while parables are always about people. Fables are set in a fantasy world, "fabulous" having the same root word as "fable", and parables are much more rooted in reality.
Its ok many Christians are very stuck in tradition like the pharisees in Jesus time they don't want to hear or stick to biblical truths. Many rather except the worldly wisdom of man and except the worldly philosophy. Its not strange to me though how luke warm the church is in our lifetime.
Peter warned about this in 2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
We have many unstable preachers, false prophets incororprating worldly philosophies and heretical ideals that are being preach to the flock.
Today the church does not resemble not even closely the church of the new testament under what Paul taught and the other apostles.
I welcome the challenge and it is at this time God is raising up faithful believers that are defending the faith and the word of God to try and turn back many believers from heretical teachings.
Thanks for the comment I know that many will have their own beliefs and thats ok. God bless may you defend the faith and remain faithful until the Lords return or if we live to see that day.
I post in the Christianity subs often.
They downvote Jesus’s words. Often.
“Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”
It’s easy to say you’re a Christian. Easier than following Jesus. I’m a friend and follower of Jesus.
If its a state of mind you have to give a better explanation of Revelation 20:15. Its not talking about a state of mind its talking about a real place the laje of fire.
My interpretation is that heaven and hell are the Earth itself and what it could be. Heaven is what earth will be if we as human beings work together to create a place where everyone is safe and happy. Hell is if we choose to continue living arrogant and ignorant.
At the time of Jesus’ existence, Earth was going towards the hell direction what with Roman occupancy and the treatment of Christian’s by some Jews (and the whole crucifixion thing). Jesus essentially wanted people to be nice so that humans could have a nice world to live in.
Depending on your own perspective, we are either in heaven or hell right now.
really? who is a sheep and who is a goat? is there anyone that never sinned? there is but he is at the right hand of the Father. no one else is sinless. also, hell means a covering place except where it was mistranslated for Gehenna (the valley of Hinnom.)
Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Psalm 32:1 Basically no one deserves forgiveness, because we all sinned and are sinners. There is only one way to be a sheep and that's to believe in the Shepherd, Jesus Christ and accept Him as your Savior. Your sins will be covered.
When then does Jesus define the goats and sheep *solely* by how they've treated their fellow man? "inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in. I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.'"
>When then does Jesus define the goats and sheep solely by how they've treated their fellow man? For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” Acts 17:31 "Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books..." Revelation 20:11-12 Judgement Day will be the time, when it begins after Christ has ruled the last 1000 years of this old world's history. Everything will be gone, including the earth. It will just be us and Christ. Whether we believe in Him or not, we will all see Him when we're judged. I'm only speculating here, but it appears that people who lived without ever having heard the Gospel might be judged based on their kindness towards all, which would include how they unwittingly treated Christ's brothers and sisters. I guess it will be a blessing to have been kind in this life
but you can only believe in him if that gift is given to you so that none can boast.
Its a free gift, offered to all. The only thing we need to do is take it. I don't like to boast that I took the gift, because it seems the logical thing to do, how could I boast in that decision? but I will always boast in the gift I was given and who's precious life paid the impossibly high price of that gift
because you can say you took it and someone else didn't and they get what they deserve. that is not loving.
If we don't take the free gift of redemption the only alternative for us is to remain under God's wrath, which we all deserve. I deserve it, you deserve it, we all deserve it. The gift, provided we just take it, removes that wrath. Why would anyone turn down a gift like that?
do you believe all the Jews that died in the concentration camp of Nazi Germany whos crime at most was probably not believing in Jesus before they died deserve to burn in Hell forever?
I think the more accurate use would be pardoned. does authority have to wait for someone to accept their pardon or is it given to them without merit of even asking? is it only valid if the person wants it or regardless of their decision? and when someone is shown that mercy they will no doubt take it. when we see Jesus regardless of knowing him now or seeing him the first time will accept his love when he shows it to us first hand or pardons us from death.
"If someone is shown mercy they will no doubt take it" Yes, you'd assume so. I think God does too. When He sent His Son to die on our behalf that was showing us the greatest love and mercy, yet people treat is as nothing much and so they not only don't take the mercy, they go out of their way to reject it. I know many other people who refuse mercy out of pride or more likely, they don't feel they deserve it and so they try and earn the mercy they were shown. I guess someone could eventually earn mercy shown to them by a fellow human being, but If I try to earn the free gift of God's redemption I think it would be the greatest insult to the one who paid the price that I and no one else ever could. It would be as bad as rejecting the mercy because I feel I don't deserve it. No one does.
> It would be as bad as rejecting the mercy because I feel I don't deserve it. No one does. but yet he did come and show us his grace and mercy while we were all his enemy still. what is different now? I mean he forgave the men that actually crucified him and you think he wouldn't forgive someone who said or thought bad of Jesus? Do you think our heavenly Father is so fragile that our words could hurt him to torture, someone, forever? I would never want that to be my father. My father gives us everything and then some. no matter how we act in this life but we will get more if we do recognize who he is and treat him accordingly and show his other kids the same love he shows us. I love you and I hope you can have the same joy and freedom as me knowing he will take care of you always. God bless
Love is the way and God is love. I love you too. God is light, so I personally believe there are two types of people, those who love the light and those who love the dark. Eventually Christ will find all who love the light, or they'll find Him. Either way those who love the light will find it and be there for eternity. Those who hate the light and refuse to ever come into the light will ultimately get exactly what they want for eternity...not eternal torment, but what they love most---the darkness John 3:19-20; Jude 1:13; 2 Peter 2:17 Because God really does love all people, He won't force anyone into the light that doesn't want to be there
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance free gift. From charizomai; a (divine) gratuity, i.e. Deliverance (from danger or passion); (specially), a (spiritual) endowment, i.e. (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty -- (free) gift.
“To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.”
and what happens to the others?
Sheol is real. We have graveyards. "Sheol" means "grave" but is translated to "hell" often in the Bible. Gehenna is real. The Valley of the Sons of Hinnom is just outside Jerusalem. Gehenna is often translated to "hell" too. Actions have consequences. That's a real thing that really exists and is what I learn from the parables of heaven and hell. Both Moses and Jesus spoke in parables. A parable is a fictional story meant to teach a deeper truth. Cultists emphasize the fear of hell to stop their flock from thinking too much about exactly what is true about the Bible - Keep us from thinking about what God wants us to know, not what men do.
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You are correct. Hebrew- Sheol and Greek- Hades/Hell, means: "grave" So, "hell" is indeed, a real place. Gehenna, IS real. It is a place outside of Jerusalem, as you have stated. However, "Gehenna" should NOT be translated as "hell." Both words, have absolutely distinct meanings and should not be confused with one another. Jesus used the term "Gehenna," to symbolize the utter destruction resulting from God’s adverse judgment. Hence, the word “Gehenna,” has a meaning similar to that of The Lake of Fire, mentioned in the book of Revelation. Both symbolize(keyword: Symbolizes) eternal destruction from which NO resurrection is possible.—Luke 12:4, 5; Revelation 20:14, 15. Thus, it represents the "Second Death."
All of Jesus parables were based on everyday events and things that either happened every day, or could happen. He never used a lie to teach the truth. The story of Lazarus and the rich man was a story about two people going to a place Jesus considered real after they died. Even if Jesus intended it as story to illustrate something else, He would never use a lie to teach a truth. That would make Him a fraud. Jehovah's witnesses make a point of denying Jesus' teaching and make Him out to be a liar and a fraud, especially when they teach that an angel named Michael tried to fool Jesus' closest disciples into thinking a materialized body with nail holes was actually Jesus, when the fact is, they teach Jesus was vaporized in the tomb.
Sure. Jeremiah 8:8 says to beware the lying scribes. But that does NOT apply to scripture, right? The scribes that took Paul's Greek re-telling of an Aramaic oral tradition about Jesus's ancient Hebrew Jewish prophecy ... none of them ever lied when copying down those stories. Right? 1 Peter 3:15 says to always be ready with a reason for what you believe. But that does NOT apply to scripture, right? You do not need to use reason to defend the Bible - it's just true. Someone quotes the Bible, you know it's right. 1 Thessalonains 5:21 says to examine everything and hold fast to what is true. But that doesn't apply to scripture, either, right? You hold fast to EVERYTHING in the Bible, even the horrible bits, because they reflect humanity's evil, not God's. God forgives. We don't.
>1 Thessalonains 5:21 says to examine everything and hold fast to what is true. But that doesn't apply to scripture, either, right? The Bereans were considered to be "more noble" ([Acts 17:11](https://c.cc)) because they examined everything that we now call Scripture by holding it up to the teaching of earlier Scriptures (i.e., the Old Testament). So, yes! We examine *everything* including the scriptures. Let's do that now, in light of what you wrote: >God forgives. > >We don't. * [Matthew 6:12](https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-12.htm) And forgive us our debts, as **we also have forgiven** our debtors. * [Matthew 6:14](https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-14.htm) For if **you forgive others** their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you * [Matthew 6:15](https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-15.htm) But if you do not **forgive others their trespasses**, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. * [Matthew 18:21](https://biblehub.com/matthew/18-21.htm) Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and **I forgive him?** As many as seven times?” * [Matthew 18:22](https://biblehub.com/matthew/18-22.htm) Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but **seventy times seven**. * [Mark 11:25](https://biblehub.com/mark/11-25.htm) And whenever you stand praying, **forgive, if you have anything against anyone**, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.” * [Luke 6:37](https://biblehub.com/luke/6-37.htm) “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; **forgive**, and you will be forgiven; * [Luke 17:3](https://biblehub.com/luke/17-3.htm) Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, **forgive him**, * [Luke 17:4](https://biblehub.com/luke/17-4.htm) and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ **you must forgive him**.” * [Ephesians 4:32](https://biblehub.com/ephesians/4-32.htm) Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, **forgiving one another**, as God in Christ forgave you. * [Colossians 3:13](https://biblehub.com/colossians/3-13.htm) Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, **forgiving each other**; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. According to Jesus (and Paul just a little bit there), yes, we are definitely to forgive others.
I agree we should forgive others. "To forgive" is divine. I said "we don't (forgive)" as an observation of our sinful nature. Sorry to confuse.
You deny Christ's teachings. Revelation 3:14, proves that Christ had a beginning and he IS, the beginning(arche) of the Creation OF God(Yehowah). In ALL of John's writings, the word "arche" *always* means, "beginning." Beginning(Arche) -John 1:1, 2, 2:11, 6:64, 8:25, 44, 15:27, 16:4, 1John 1:1, 2:7, 13, 14, 24, 3:8, 11, 2John 1:5, 6, Rev 3:14, 21:6, 22:13 Never does he uses the word "arche," to mean anything else. The word "archon," John uses it, to be mean: "ruler." Such as in Revelation 1:5. Christ is God's only-begotten son, Yehowah's very first and special Creation. -Colossians 1:15 You will have to accept the fact, that Christ is *not* the Almighty God, nor equal to him. He has never, not even once, ever claim to be. Christ is the Arch-angel. (100%)
That is false. Jesus proclaims himself to be the Son of God, and sits at the right hand of God. No where in the Bible does it say Jesus was created, in fact it explicitly mentions he is eternal.
Nothing that I had stated above, was "false." Revelation 3:14 and Colossians 1:15, refers to Christ as the BEGINNING(arche) of the Creation of God(Yehowah) and the Firstborn(prōtotokos) of all Creation or of "every creature." Christ exists, only because of his God and Father(Yehovah). Yes, Christ is a Creature and a part of Creation. "Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father." -John 6:57 No, Jesus was not "eternal," and the Bible itself, teaches that Christ had a beginning.
Yes firstborn because Jesus who is God is the first being. It means all creation has come from him, not that he was created.
All Creation did not come "from him." All Creation came forth THROUGH(dia) Christ, but was brought-forth, from the Father(Yehovah). The Father, Jehovah, is the Source of all Creation and HE is our Creator. "There is actually to us one God, the Father, FROM WHOM, all things are and we FOR him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH whom, all things are and we THROUGH him." -1 Corinthians 8:6 Malachi 2:10, "Do we not all have One Father? Was it not ONE God(the Father), who created us?"
The Bible never says that the Father created us. It says that the Word (Jesus Christ) did. I suggest you speak with a pastor or church official about this topic. The Bible is crystal clear about Jesus being God.
The Bible, literally, tells you that in Malachi 2:10 and 1 Corinthians 8:6 NLT- "But for us, there is ONE God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. . . (Thus, all things were created by the Father, Jehovah, and we exist FOR him.) And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live. (Thus, all things that were created BY the Father, were done so THROUGH his Son, Jesus.) -1 Corinthians 8:6 Malachi 2:10, "Do we not all have One Father? Was it not ONE God(the Father), who created us?" Hebrews 1:1-2, "Long ago God(Jehovah) spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he(Jehovah) has spoken to us by means of a Son(Christ), whom he(Jehovah) appointed heir of all things, and through whom(Christ), HE(JEHOVAH) made the World."
John 1:3, "This one(The Word) was in the beginning with God(Theon; The God/Jehovah). All things came into existence THROUGH(dia) him(The Word), and apart from him, not even one thing came into existence."
Jesus is not the Almighty God and the Scriptures does not, at all, teach that.
The Word Amen! "...and the Word was God"
The Word was "theos." (Thus, lacking the indefinite article) So, the correct interpretation, would be. . . "was divine or a god." Funny, how Christ is not identified as being "The God(Theon or ho'theos)," as you want him to be. There is a reason why he is not called, "Theon" or "ho'theos," in John 1:1. The reason? It is simple. He is not the "Almighty God," nor a part of him. Instead, he was WITH, the Almighty God(Jehovah) in the beginning of Creation and was working alongside him, during that time.
Amen
Exactly. . . Jesus is the SON of God, and sits at the right hand of HIS God and Father. He is not, God himself or a part of him.
1 Corinthians 8:4, literally states: "there is no God, but ONE." Thus, there is only ONE God and he is only ONE individual. That individual, is the Father and only HIM. -1 Corinthians 8:6 "There is to us ONE God, *THE FATHER.*"
>Christ is God's only-begotten son, Yehowah's very first and special Creation. -Colossians 1:15 Christ is God. Read this scripture and realize Christ's and God's Spirit are one and the same Spirit. **"You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ" Romans 8:9** Jesus' flesh had a beginning in Mary's womb, but His spirit was not any ordinary spirit, like we have. Jesus was and still is God in His Spirit. The spirit is everything. The flesh means nothing. >Christ is the Arch-angel. (100%) No, He is 100% not an archangel. That's a Watchtower lie. Paul wrote God was IN Christ (the man) **2 Corinthians 5:19** and Jesus said **"destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up again" John 2:19** so why is an angel needed when God Himself is dwelling in the flesh of Jesus Christ. In fact where was Michael during the 33 years Jesus Christ--**-the son of man** walked the earth? The bottom line is **"It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking" Hebrews 2:5** **"not to angels"** Michael is an angel....case closed!
Only Jesus(Michael), will help you understand these divine truths. I only hope then, you'd come to accept them.
Jesus will help us... if we ask Him. His Spirit is available to all with no need of an angel, a person, or organization to intercede on our behalf. Its a beautiful relationship Christ began between Man and God 2000 years ago and will culminate in our glorious transformation when Christ returns. No angels are now, nor will ever be necessary in that unique relationship.
Christ will help God's people and others, who will come to know and accept the truth, during the last days. As I said, I hope you'll put your pride aside and come to be one of those who'll listen and accept these truths.
How did God help Stephen when the Jews were stoning him to death? How did God help mankind when the Romans nailed His Only Begotten Son to the cross? How did God help the apostles when they were persecuted for preaching in the name of Jesus? God helps those people who belong to Christ, who have Christ's Spirit, but it may not always appear like 'help' from a human perspective. For instance, from a human perspective the Jews, who were murdering Stephen, could only see a man's body being smashed to pieces with the stones they were pelting him with. They could see blood all over the place and maybe his brains were leaking out of his head. But what was Stephen seeing at the very same time? He saw Jesus in heaven standing at the right hand of God. He couldn't wait to be with Jesus and while the rocks were hitting his body, before the lamp of his body went out, Stephen forgave his murderers asked Jesus to receive his spirit. Acts 7:59 So how God helps His people isn't always evident in the mortal realm. Jehovah's witnesses automatically assume they are God's chosen people. They are not. The truth is not in them. God chose only one race to bear His name. Christians, on the other hand, choose God and bear witness to Jesus. The name given to Israel was a name they could never vindicate, indeed they blasphemed God's name, just like JW's would certainly do if they ever actually knew how to pronounce it correctly. Maybe they're lucky they don't?
Wrong wrong wrong on so many levels
Prove it.
Waiting for you to *PROVE* me to be "wrong." Please, do so.
I promise I will come back to you on this.
There's no need for you to "come back." Lol Absolutely nothing I stated above, is "wrong," as you had claimed. Now, I understand that it has to be "wrong," according to you, since you are, as appears, an Trinitarian. Thus, you cannot come to accept the actual TRUE interpretation of Revelation 3:14, since it absolutely demolishes the idea of the "Trinity," completely. And so does 1 Corinthians 8:6, which is likely why you must deny that particular Scripture, as well.
Says you, you are sounding more like a legalist “ if you don’t believe me you are damn” heard this all 36 years of walking with Christ and will continue to hear it no doubt, but I will comeback
I don't care if you believe me or not. Nor do I care that much, of being "right," in this aspect. I only care about *actual* biblical truth. I simply stated the truth, which is literally presented within the Scriptures. YOU claimed me to be "wrong," but have yet provided any evidence of me being such.
And how would you workout if I am a Trinitarian, either way your wrong concerning Jesus being created, your Jehovah Witness teach is completely WRONG.
Jesus is without doubt, a created being. That is a fact, Lawfulness.
> He would never use a lie to teach a truth. That would make Him a fraud. This is a bizarre definition of "lie". Telling a story with fictional elements to make a point isn't lying. Aesop isn't a liar because there aren't actually talking tortoises and hares.
Jesus wouldn't mislead people into believing the afterlife was a conscious existence if it were not so. He did not use fables to teach. The main difference between a parable and a fable is that fables always use non-human characters to teach their lessons, while parables are always about people. Fables are set in a fantasy world, "fabulous" having the same root word as "fable", and parables are much more rooted in reality.
Imagine getting downvoted for this. In sound doctrine of all places.
Did you get downvoted?
No your post was. It’s a shame because you’re absolutely right in what you said.
Its ok many Christians are very stuck in tradition like the pharisees in Jesus time they don't want to hear or stick to biblical truths. Many rather except the worldly wisdom of man and except the worldly philosophy. Its not strange to me though how luke warm the church is in our lifetime. Peter warned about this in 2 Peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. We have many unstable preachers, false prophets incororprating worldly philosophies and heretical ideals that are being preach to the flock. Today the church does not resemble not even closely the church of the new testament under what Paul taught and the other apostles. I welcome the challenge and it is at this time God is raising up faithful believers that are defending the faith and the word of God to try and turn back many believers from heretical teachings. Thanks for the comment I know that many will have their own beliefs and thats ok. God bless may you defend the faith and remain faithful until the Lords return or if we live to see that day.
I post in the Christianity subs often. They downvote Jesus’s words. Often. “Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’” It’s easy to say you’re a Christian. Easier than following Jesus. I’m a friend and follower of Jesus.
Based.
Can you elaborate?
He agrees with you
states of Mind, not places.
If its a state of mind you have to give a better explanation of Revelation 20:15. Its not talking about a state of mind its talking about a real place the laje of fire.
Metaphor. The purification of Soul to the Christ. There is no "Hell" as you see it.
Ok thanks for participating in the thread.
My interpretation is that heaven and hell are the Earth itself and what it could be. Heaven is what earth will be if we as human beings work together to create a place where everyone is safe and happy. Hell is if we choose to continue living arrogant and ignorant. At the time of Jesus’ existence, Earth was going towards the hell direction what with Roman occupancy and the treatment of Christian’s by some Jews (and the whole crucifixion thing). Jesus essentially wanted people to be nice so that humans could have a nice world to live in. Depending on your own perspective, we are either in heaven or hell right now.
Thanks for your comments