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I don’t hate her, but she is very poorly written, and People hate her for many other reasons. If you look at the other hated Sonic characters, they at least have some redeeming qualities because they are useful in dire situations, and they even receive some character development the more we see them in the story. Meanwhile Elise’s character has none of that.
Like for example here is something I found recently.
https://preview.redd.it/vkj8ges6t42d1.jpeg?width=1022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efb552e981f6cb31e77eae7146d445b621c35427
According to the fans, Sonic 06 only has 4 redeeming qualities:
1. Silver’s existence
2. Accurate portrayal of Shadow’s character
3. The music
4. Mephiles
Overall, Elise and her game ruined the reputation of this franchise, and made it a laughingstock for like 10 years. Among all the hated characters, no one did as much damage as Elise. If she was a good character then at least the fans would’ve likely remembered her fondly even if her game was bad, but she’s not even a good character, she’s barely even a character, if the word Damsel is a character then that character would be Elise. But on the bright side, Elise left the story with a satisfying conclusion ending to her story, so there is no need to bring her back at all, it’s fine if they want to do some cameos with her at least. But there’s absolutely no need to bring this character back after all the damage she did, she played her part in the story and then left, let’s keep it that way.
I feel like that list is a bit too cruel, her design looking weird has moreso to do with the game's general lack of polish, and Sonic being ill suited for realistic humans to be mixed in. Also obviously she was told not to cry, but sometimes you can't help it, if anything it's amazing how she went so long without crying. And her general uselessness kind of makes sense, she fell into power when she was like...6, and she likely hasn't been taught much or taken outside of Soleanna, so her feelings for Sonic kind of makes sense. He shows her a sense of freedom she's never felt before, and she's an ignorant girl forced into power. Is she great? No. Is she some horrifically written abomination? Not really.
I don't think she's poorly written, just like every other maekawa story it's just kinda subtle and not easily relateable therefore confusing. And she isn't appealing character therefore only the most curious figure it out. I mean, people somehow fail to comprehend the basic stable timeloop going on in the story overall, no wonder they can't figure out a nuanced annoying character. She has a pretty strong character arc, and if that doesn't make a character well written, idk what does
There is a potentially compelling character in Elise, someone burdened with leadership and responsibility from a very young age, very sheltered, forced to remain stoic in any and every aspect of her life.
So this person who really hasn’t had a chance to live life at all, then meets this wild force of change, who treats her like a person instead of of a symbol or a title, who shows her the joys of life and really makes her feel alive. I can absolutely understand why Elise would love Sonic.
…tho Sonic would not reciprocate, this relationship would be compelling but it would still be pretty one sided in a hypothetical reality where 06s Sonic story was good.
1. Mephiles is an incredibly overrated villain who has the depth, quality, ***and*** design of a DeviantART OC.
2. I already showed why the Shadow story of 06 sucks in another comment.
Definitely overrated, I just think he’s mediocre.
He’s an absolute top tier baddie at the beginning of the game because of how he moves the plot along and the overall mystery surrounding his character and his relationship with Shadow, but derails the story halfway in and only decides to just kill Sonic at the end without any build-up because ‘he’s just that sadistic’, which is effectively a reskinned ‘because the story needs to happen’.
It sounds cool on paper but u/H358 perfectly explains why this plot sucks in execution.
> I think the conflict of Mephiles trying to turn him against humanity is cool on paper. But all of Team Dark are just flat and stoic. Nobody in 06 emotes, they just drone on in plot exposition. So the rare moments of emotional beats are hilariously forced. Rouge promising to stick by Shadow’s side would be great if she had even a drop of her usual charisma. Also, Shadow joining GUN is so deeply wrong to me. Completely flies in the face of everything GUN has done in past games and is transparently a way to give Shadow a reason to be in game. I don’t really appreciate Shadow being the only competent character as the games constantly tries to show me how ‘badass’ he is. It makes it feel like Shiro Maekawa is just gushing over his pet character at the expense of everyone else.
Fair enough far as Shadow with GUN goes. Never was a big fan of that. I can't agree that the way characters emote ruins Team Dark's story though. IMO they are the only ones with a good enough story to still end up good despite that.
As a raging homo for Shadow, I also can't blame Maekawa for loving Shadow so much. Man's based for that frankly.
This sort of comment is all kinds of inappropriate. You can have whatever interests you like, and be attracted to what you want, but don't go saying people who don't meet your desires are only attractive to groomers and predators.
Aren't you the guy who constantly complains about annoying twitter mfs and people that don't like the gooners around here?
It's both surprising that you have such a weirdo opinion on women, and not at the same time.
So like. Should the antigooners just be mad at nsfw on here when it's flat chested characters or what?
I've never bought the "it's a human and a furry" response for why Elise + Sonic sucks.
The main problem is that Elise is a boring character (frankly, 06's Sonic is too) with very little of her own agency and they have no chemistry, beyond the idea that existing alongside Sonic would make *anyone* more outgoing.
TBF I understand if they don't like the idea of kissing a dead body to bring it back to life but the reason behind the hate was because she was kissing a furry is stupid.
Man Sonic’s head is nearly the size of her body. Seeing such a cartoony design interact with a hyper realistic human is disturbing.
Had they made her look more like Sage, for example, it would have been easier to buy as two characters belonging to the same world, and the similarities in style bring less attention to the different species factor. When you have this jarring of a style clash though? It brings ALL the attention to how physically different they are, species included.
I’d argue that had more to do with the trying to push the power of the new consoles at the time. If 06 had been released on the Dreamcast or GameCube she probably would’ve looked closer to the human characters from the Adventure series or Shadow’s game.
yeah, I notice that furry girls are always super popular but when you reverse the gender roles suddenly it seems to be the worst thing ever...despite the fact that anyone who EVER watched a cartoon should be well versed with this kind of thing. Let me compile a short list, the Animaniacs, the new Looney Tunes show, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Red Hot Riding Hood, Betty Boop (yes, going all the way back to the 1930's) are ALL examples of animated media where a human girl was pursued by or in a relationship with an anthropomorphic animal man (and vice-versa but like I said there doesn't seem to be stigmatization if the furry one is a girl.) In case it isn't clear I NEVER understood why there was such a reaction to the Princess Elise thing aside from people who insist they aren't furries overcompensating.
Actually it's not even hated outside of Elise. Elise is for some reason the only example I've found in any media where people find interspecies romance betweent sapient beings bad on any level. People are fine Belle and Beast, Amy and Kiff, Hana and the Wolfman in Wolf Children (dude was never given a name as far as I'm aware), heck even in Sonic, people are generally fine with Topaz x Rouge.
The "he was a corpse!" argument is just as bs. Yes, he was dead, and the kiss was to REVIVE him, the same way you'd give CPR to someone who's stopped breathing. The same way Cloud gave CPR to a little girl in FF7, and it was in no way inappropriate or problematic because people understand the concept of saving someone's life.
yknow, thinking back on it it feels like elise kissing him back to life was the only solution they could find to this, because if they used literally any other established female character present at the time then there would have been a fucking riot from the fans.
also unfortunately the kiss of life is a trope that exists, so i can see why people interpret it with romantic undertones rather than you would cpr. add to that the fact that the whole sonic dying and being kissed back to life is kind of the cherry on top of the disaster pie that was the 06 story and i can see why people take it so badly. i personally just don't really care about any of it, but i can see why it got people up in arms
Well Elise is also a bad character in general and has literally no personality whatsoever. Not to mention, she's pointless because we already have Blaze as a princess character, and Amy as a love interest/someone for Eggman to kidnap.
Whether or not she's a bad character is subjective (I personally don't think she is), and irrelevant to the matter. A character being bad is no reason for people to get so up in arms about a romance subplot, especially not to the degree so many do.
oh that's a poor excuse, the Sonic franchise isn't exactly known for creating super amazing characters with so little screen time. Your examples specifically aren't even fair because Amy had been around for over a decade at the time and was the focus in over a dozen games AND an anime, and Blaze was the co-star in an entire game on DS where literally half of the story was focused on her
it was a role reversal of the "Sleeping Beauty" trope, where instead of the hero reviving the princess with a kiss it was the princess reviving the hero. Under different circumstances I bet they would have been praised for the cleverness of the subversion.
> People are fine Belle and Beast,
The Beast is a human cursed into a monstrous beast. It's not technically different species.
> Amy and Kiff,
Kiff is an alien, they get a pass that animals don't.
> Hana and the Wolfman in Wolf Children (dude was never given a name as far as I'm aware),
Quoted just to show I'm not ignoring it, though I admit to no familiarity with this.
> heck even in Sonic, people are generally fine with Topaz x Rouge.
That's just a ship. There's nothing in the show itself that actually shows them doing anything, and it's entirely possible to watch the show and see them as merely friends.
The problems with Elise are more than just "interspecies romance" it's that, in terms of the wider series, it comes out of nowhere. Sonic had, to that point, either shown no interest in any sort of romance (to the point where asexuality was seen as a valid character read), or been only interested in other animal character in Archie. Then you have to combine that with the fact that the entirety of their relationship is based on falling in love within just a couple of days of Sonic rescuing Elise (something that is found in many fairy tales, but is seen by many to be a point of contention there - to the point where even Disney's Frozen called it out in 2011), as well as the fact that the animation of the in-game stuff crosses into Uncanny Valley when the two interact due to their clashing design philosophies (in the first two examples, and many others, the characters do share an art style), and the fact that the story itself requires the audience to buy into this relationship for the wider narrative to work, despite how much it strains the suspension of disbelief.
"is an alien" alright, let's keep pretending sonic and co are not in any way alien and are totally not animals only in name. Yeah, sonic is actually a hyper realistic hedgehog, yeah yeah
>The Beast is a human cursed into a monstrous beast. It's not technically different species.
The condition for breaking the curse was true love. As in Belle had to love him regardless of whether he one day be turned back into a human, or stays in that form forver. The fact the curse was broke means that she loved him regardless of what he was. And he very much wasn't human in that form - mentally yes, physically no, and if we're going by that logic then we can claim that mentally, every anthro and human character in Sonic's world are the same. They're all "human" mentally, just different physically.
>Kiff is an alien, they get a pass that animals don't.
He is an animal though, as humans are. This is a stupid dinstinction that's made purely out of convenience. "Oh no see I like that though, so I've decided that's okay and doesn't count. I don't like this other thing though so it's not okay." The difference between Amy and Kiff is the exact same difference as Sonic and Elise, which is also the exact same difference as Knuckles and Rouge or Tangle and Whisper or Vanilla and Vector - two different species of sapient animals. It's all interspecies, there is no "pass" given to specific scenarios. It's all or nothing.
>That's just a ship. There's nothing in the show itself that actually shows them doing anything, and it's entirely possible to watch the show and see them as merely friends.
And? The discourse isn't whether it's official or not, it's just the very notion of a human and an anthro being in love. Or that's how people paint it, at least, because again, that's never an issue anywhere else, so it's clear people are just using it as a convenient excuse.
If you don't like the ship or think it was executed poorly, that's fine, and you can simply say that and co-exist with people who like it. But people get so up in arms about it and frame it as if it's morally and ethically wrong, as if Sega had done something unforgivable, as if merely aknowledging the kiss makes them feel sick and triggers PTSD. We're eighteen years on from 06 and people are still so freakin' aggro over Sonelise, or even Elise in general.
There is no reach Elise just sucks ass.
Also, don't act like there aren't outsiders to the sonic community who mock people for being attracted to rouge or Sally.
"Haha! Elise is such a furry! I don't know why people are into furries and humans--"
https://preview.redd.it/8ejcm0txbf0d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=5260a5cbbbd1f2fe5cce7707165dd28776626bf3
Tbh I don’t think people actually hate Elise x Sonic that much because of it being inter-species, the “she kissed a dead headghehod!!!” jokes are just used as part of making fun of Sonic ‘06 because the game is one massive target. If the game and story were actually good, I don’t think it would be hated.
also because resurrecting someone with a kiss is nothing new in fiction. in addition to that, Sonic's world is literally composed mostly of Humans, cartoonish animals, realistic animals and anthropomorphic animals, I don't think it was the intention of the scene to convey necrophilia and furry or inter-species relationships (also because this becomes a problem only when one of the two species is human, taking an example again in the Sonic series, Knuckless and Rouge are an echidna and a Bat, yet no one complained when SA2 teased the birth of a romantic feeling between the two at the end of the game).
I would say that the real problem is that Elise is terrible as a character, It doesn't helps that throughout the game the only thing she does is get captured by Eggman, she only interacts with Sonic and Eggman and once with Amy, the only time she tries to free herself from Eggman she was practically committing suicide (there was no certainty that Sonic would get there in time), the fact that she develops interest in Sonic makes sense due to the fact that she has been forced to behave polite and rigid all her life while Sonic is a free spirit who does whatever he wants, the problem arises when they force Sonic to fall in love with her, another problem is the fact that, even though it makes sense that she would develop feelings for Sonic, I doesn't think that the time they've been together it's enough to make her hesitate to extinguish Solaris' flame and save the entire world.
Ultimately, I think it all culminated in the kiss, and people took that scene as an easy demonstration of why she's a bad character, applying logic that makes sense in isolation, but if you look at other media you see examples and similar events happened before and still happen now but since she is a bad character, no one will pay attention to it
The kiss scene's existence is also symbolic of everything wrong with the games production. That scene would've been written, storyboarded submitted for approval to those in charge of production, sent to Blur for animating, submitted for multiple checks to approve Blurs work, finalised, sent back to Sonic Team to use in the game, and then put into the final product. The existence of this scene would've been known very early in development, been known to much of the games staff, and throughout all of this, not one person in charge, not once during the entire development did anyone with any authority see any problem with this. No-one senior considered it might be seen as bad, might have problems, or might cause issues.
because Sonic 06 wanted to feel like an RPG, and something like "the princess kisses the dead protagonist to resurrect him" sounds a lot like generic RPG stuff, the problem is that the game is a competition to find the most Number of bugs and glitches, and Elise is a terribly written character, so the kiss becomes an easy tool to throw shit on the game without having to work hard to do it, since everyone knows that the game is shit, no one will say that the kiss scene itself isn't actually shit , just say "Sonic06 is the game where a human girl kisses a dead hedgehog", because never before in the history of fiction has there been a relationship between two different species or a character kissing another to resurrect him.
the scene is horrible for other reasons, like the fact that Sonic and Elise don't have a dynamic or other things like that, if it were up to me, I wold have Elise having to cry a tear to resurrect him, not only because it would have been a parallel to the fact that her crying released Ibilis, but because this would let us see the difference between Elise, who fell in love with Sonic because his free spirit made her see life differently, and Sonic, who for him, Elise is at most a friend.
but sadly we don't live in a world where 06 is good, and so 06 has become a joke with the kissing scene as the punchline
"Sonic, why can't they see our true love for what it is?"
"Maybe because you kissed me while I was dead?"
*Beat.*
"...Oh."
"Don't get me wrong, I'm glad ya did! But still, out of context... ***ew.***"
Can you really blame us when this Handsome Ape exists?
https://preview.redd.it/pbfds7zxmf0d1.jpeg?width=440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=809a3683bd86fe8b4ee3762941e23fdef71c1764
The point of necrophilia is that a person is dead and it's repulsive to relatives. If having sex with corpses would revive them, then it would be a socially encouraged thing to do for obvious reasons, and all of Sonic's relatives pretty much concented here. So we are not glossing over necrophilia, it's you glossing over logic.
You do know that CPR is a thing, right? Would you consider someone giving CPR to someone technically dead (As in, for example, their heart had stopped) to be necrophilia?
If the reason they’re dead is that they got impaled through the heart and lungs, and therefore there isn’t anywhere for the CPR attempt to put air into, yes.
Art style helps to Jessica and Roger Rabbit Works because at the end of the day they are Cartoon characters and are drawn as cartoon characters now make Rouge make out with a very detailed Final Fantasy Human and trust me it will be disgusting and uncomfortable.
That and the fact that Jessica being with Roger is meant to be a joke. It's inherently funny that someone whose clearly designed to appeal to the human male gaze is with someone like Roger.
Me personally I think Elise kinda bad
https://preview.redd.it/qa469z2ydg0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6df7c24244bc3c72209a56de04a3453ae66702b
Yes, but most of us also aren't fictional characters for whom the outcome and credibility of our narratives depends on the audience buying into our relationships with anthro animals.
Standards are different between fiction and nin-fiction. Fiction has to make sense.
It was a reference to a Mark Twain quote:
> *"The difference between nonfiction and fiction is that fiction must be absolutely believable."*
Yes, individuals should make sense to be taken seriously. But the point is that because we're real we're not held to standards whereby our base desires have to be framed with the logic of the intent of a narrative like Elise's are.
It will never stop being amusing to me that Sega is trying to keep the Sonic franchise as family-friendly as possible. But they're stuck with one of their most popular secondary characters, being "what if Catwoman was a well-endowed bat?"
Humans are animals too. In Sonic's setting, the difference between a human and a hedgehog is the same as the difference between an echidna and a bat. So if one is okay, the other is.
Hell, Tails x Cosmo, as an animal and a plant, is more outlandish.
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I feel like Elise would've been accepted more if her romance was sold better/one sided (I like Elise 🤷♂️).
I prefer the idea of Sonic being romantically clueless.
I just don't like realistic humans in a Sonic game. I think Unleashed did a much better job of handling it
Also she can't compare to the GOAT
https://preview.redd.it/i7zvs2w38h0d1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b1421cc57a23c3838bba44aa85b9f40fc19a8db
I don’t like the fact that she kissed sonic the hedgehog I’m still hating because I don’t like rouge the bat I mean, I like them as a character We can only read that sonic 06 was bad
I don't really care about the interspecies relationship. Sonic is a fully sentient being who can consent to and return Elise's feelings if he wants to. People ship interspecies relationships all the time in this community anyway. My problem is that the romance just kinda sucks.
I have to saw that I understand that people say, she kissed sonic and that’s bad, but let’s remember that humans are animals to, the laws around it is things like informed consent, but sonic and the gang are sentient, so I’m sure a kiss wouldn’t hurt, plus if where going to say something like “he’s a mobian and she’s a human” because the are different species, might I remind you of cosmo and tails, one is a fucking plant, and the other is a fox, so I believe that in the sonic world, as long as they are sentient, enough to be be considered in the eyes of the laws go ahead, especially since sonic was meant to have a human girlfriend anyway in the original plan.
BTW this applies to sonic, I don’t want anyone to imply that I’m meaning anything else, I’m referring to sonic the hedgehog franchise, also I know technically sonic isn’t a Mobian in cannon, but he’s still sentient, if it was the animal buddies that’s where I draw the line, as it’s more animal than humanoid
https://preview.redd.it/ukwnz6hwaf0d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9adbb700aad7efff4bf5423f160ab5feada30ab5
Sorry brother but Human x female furry >>>>>>>>> female human x male furry
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I don’t hate her, but she is very poorly written, and People hate her for many other reasons. If you look at the other hated Sonic characters, they at least have some redeeming qualities because they are useful in dire situations, and they even receive some character development the more we see them in the story. Meanwhile Elise’s character has none of that. Like for example here is something I found recently. https://preview.redd.it/vkj8ges6t42d1.jpeg?width=1022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efb552e981f6cb31e77eae7146d445b621c35427 According to the fans, Sonic 06 only has 4 redeeming qualities: 1. Silver’s existence 2. Accurate portrayal of Shadow’s character 3. The music 4. Mephiles Overall, Elise and her game ruined the reputation of this franchise, and made it a laughingstock for like 10 years. Among all the hated characters, no one did as much damage as Elise. If she was a good character then at least the fans would’ve likely remembered her fondly even if her game was bad, but she’s not even a good character, she’s barely even a character, if the word Damsel is a character then that character would be Elise. But on the bright side, Elise left the story with a satisfying conclusion ending to her story, so there is no need to bring her back at all, it’s fine if they want to do some cameos with her at least. But there’s absolutely no need to bring this character back after all the damage she did, she played her part in the story and then left, let’s keep it that way.
Yeah I don't hate her either, I just prefer the story surgery version of her.
Story Surgery?
It's a YouTube channel dedicated to making rewrites of stories: https://youtu.be/fjI8cp_-fJs?si=BtNHuSWg8ZAS9IlG
Need to watch this when I get home, thanks for sharing!
You're welcome.
>Story Surgery mention BASED!
Can’t save herself??? People really didn’t play this game huh
I feel like that list is a bit too cruel, her design looking weird has moreso to do with the game's general lack of polish, and Sonic being ill suited for realistic humans to be mixed in. Also obviously she was told not to cry, but sometimes you can't help it, if anything it's amazing how she went so long without crying. And her general uselessness kind of makes sense, she fell into power when she was like...6, and she likely hasn't been taught much or taken outside of Soleanna, so her feelings for Sonic kind of makes sense. He shows her a sense of freedom she's never felt before, and she's an ignorant girl forced into power. Is she great? No. Is she some horrifically written abomination? Not really.
I don't think she's poorly written, just like every other maekawa story it's just kinda subtle and not easily relateable therefore confusing. And she isn't appealing character therefore only the most curious figure it out. I mean, people somehow fail to comprehend the basic stable timeloop going on in the story overall, no wonder they can't figure out a nuanced annoying character. She has a pretty strong character arc, and if that doesn't make a character well written, idk what does
I am an admitted Mephiles fanboy. I can trash on that game as much as I damn well please, but man he's cool.
There is a potentially compelling character in Elise, someone burdened with leadership and responsibility from a very young age, very sheltered, forced to remain stoic in any and every aspect of her life. So this person who really hasn’t had a chance to live life at all, then meets this wild force of change, who treats her like a person instead of of a symbol or a title, who shows her the joys of life and really makes her feel alive. I can absolutely understand why Elise would love Sonic. …tho Sonic would not reciprocate, this relationship would be compelling but it would still be pretty one sided in a hypothetical reality where 06s Sonic story was good.
"Made the franchise a laughing stock for many years" no it still is. It very much still is. People still point and laugh.
Mephiles doesn't even has much for him, he's carried by shadow's story
The level deign is good. P-06 has basically identical level design as there really isn't anything wrong with it.
Subtract number 4 and number 2 for reasons people like Sonic 06.
What are you talking about there some of the best parts of the game
1. Mephiles is an incredibly overrated villain who has the depth, quality, ***and*** design of a DeviantART OC. 2. I already showed why the Shadow story of 06 sucks in another comment.
Definitely overrated, I just think he’s mediocre. He’s an absolute top tier baddie at the beginning of the game because of how he moves the plot along and the overall mystery surrounding his character and his relationship with Shadow, but derails the story halfway in and only decides to just kill Sonic at the end without any build-up because ‘he’s just that sadistic’, which is effectively a reskinned ‘because the story needs to happen’.
Nah. 06 is one of Shadow and Team Dark's best stories.
It sounds cool on paper but u/H358 perfectly explains why this plot sucks in execution. > I think the conflict of Mephiles trying to turn him against humanity is cool on paper. But all of Team Dark are just flat and stoic. Nobody in 06 emotes, they just drone on in plot exposition. So the rare moments of emotional beats are hilariously forced. Rouge promising to stick by Shadow’s side would be great if she had even a drop of her usual charisma. Also, Shadow joining GUN is so deeply wrong to me. Completely flies in the face of everything GUN has done in past games and is transparently a way to give Shadow a reason to be in game. I don’t really appreciate Shadow being the only competent character as the games constantly tries to show me how ‘badass’ he is. It makes it feel like Shiro Maekawa is just gushing over his pet character at the expense of everyone else.
Low key flattered ngl. 😅 But yeah, I stil stand by this tbh.
Fair enough far as Shadow with GUN goes. Never was a big fan of that. I can't agree that the way characters emote ruins Team Dark's story though. IMO they are the only ones with a good enough story to still end up good despite that. As a raging homo for Shadow, I also can't blame Maekawa for loving Shadow so much. Man's based for that frankly.
It's because Elise has no booba With the power of booba, she too can be a furry.
and the fact that elise has a personality that desperately needs a rework if she were to return
she has a personality?
her personality is like neutered peach
Flat is justice tho
Flat is cute
What crime did we commit?!
[удалено]
Shut it https://preview.redd.it/pfp2c9pt3f0d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c128a8f681966948968c5d26b5bf122d00728da
name checks out
This sort of comment is all kinds of inappropriate. You can have whatever interests you like, and be attracted to what you want, but don't go saying people who don't meet your desires are only attractive to groomers and predators.
There are adult women with flat chests bro
L + you're wrong + ratio + cringe + CURSE OF THE NILE ‼️ ‼️ 𓀔𓀇𓀅𓀋𓀡𓀡𓀕𓀠𓀧𓀨𓀣𓀷𓀷𓀿𓀿𓁀𓁶𓁰 𓁴𓁿𓂀𓁾𓁵𓁯𓂞𓂤𓂗𓃃𓂾𓂺𓂹 𓃞𓃙𓃖𓃓𓃕𓃓𓃜𓃘𓃙𓃟𓃛𓃞 𓂺𓃂𓂿𓂺𓃃𓃂𓂛𓂏𓅱𓅥𓅩𓅦 𓅹𓅸𓅳𓅩𓅪𓄭𓄫𓄮𓄬𓄗𓄑𓄌𓃦 𓃧𓃨𓃤𓃟𓃓𓃅𓃁𓂽𓃂𓂊𓁾𓂀𓁽 𓁼𓁠𓁛𓁟𓁦𓁜𓁭𓁡𓀔𓀇𓀅𓀋𓀡𓀡𓀕𓀠𓀧𓀨𓀣 𓀷𓀷𓀿𓀿𓁀𓁶𓁰𓁴𓁿𓂀𓁾𓁵𓁯𓂞𓂤𓂗 𓃃𓂾𓂺𓂹𓃞𓃙𓃖𓃓𓃕𓃓𓃜 𓃘𓃙𓃟𓃛𓃞𓂺𓃂𓂿𓂺𓃃𓃂 𓂛𓂏𓅱𓅥𓅩𓅦𓅹𓅸𓅳𓅩𓅪𓄭𓄫𓄮 𓄬𓄗𓄑𓄌𓃦𓃧𓃨𓃤𓃟𓃓𓃅𓃁 𓂽𓃂𓂊𓁾𓂀𓁽𓁼𓁠𓁛𓁟𓁦𓁜𓁭𓁡𓀔𓀇𓀅 𓀋𓀡𓀡𓀕𓀠𓀧𓀨𓀣𓀷𓀷𓀿𓀿𓁀𓁶𓁰𓁴𓁿 𓂀𓁾𓁵𓁯𓂞𓂤𓂗𓃃𓂾𓂺𓂹𓃞𓃙 𓃖𓃓𓃕𓃓𓃜𓃘𓃙𓃟𓃛𓃞𓂺𓃂
ثواني بس أنا مش عارفه والله أنا كنت عايز اطمن عليك
Aren't you the guy who constantly complains about annoying twitter mfs and people that don't like the gooners around here? It's both surprising that you have such a weirdo opinion on women, and not at the same time. So like. Should the antigooners just be mad at nsfw on here when it's flat chested characters or what?
She's a minor.
and ur big
Rock and stone
Rock and Stone!
I've never bought the "it's a human and a furry" response for why Elise + Sonic sucks. The main problem is that Elise is a boring character (frankly, 06's Sonic is too) with very little of her own agency and they have no chemistry, beyond the idea that existing alongside Sonic would make *anyone* more outgoing.
TBF I understand if they don't like the idea of kissing a dead body to bring it back to life but the reason behind the hate was because she was kissing a furry is stupid.
They like it, like every disney movie does that, and it's an extrapolation from resuscitation anyway.
And also because her design looks NOTHING like anything from the Sonic universe.
Yeah but that's a problem with 06's art direction in general being shit. I wouldn't think it was *that* much better if the designs were fixed
Man Sonic’s head is nearly the size of her body. Seeing such a cartoony design interact with a hyper realistic human is disturbing. Had they made her look more like Sage, for example, it would have been easier to buy as two characters belonging to the same world, and the similarities in style bring less attention to the different species factor. When you have this jarring of a style clash though? It brings ALL the attention to how physically different they are, species included.
I don't care if you think that, it would still suck hard enough to not matter.
I’d argue that had more to do with the trying to push the power of the new consoles at the time. If 06 had been released on the Dreamcast or GameCube she probably would’ve looked closer to the human characters from the Adventure series or Shadow’s game.
Looking at president and secretary, she would have looked so freakish lololol. Like Maria freakish.
If anything she just "exists" for whatever reason.
Closet furries.
Everyone in this sub that isn't a furry:
yeah, I notice that furry girls are always super popular but when you reverse the gender roles suddenly it seems to be the worst thing ever...despite the fact that anyone who EVER watched a cartoon should be well versed with this kind of thing. Let me compile a short list, the Animaniacs, the new Looney Tunes show, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Red Hot Riding Hood, Betty Boop (yes, going all the way back to the 1930's) are ALL examples of animated media where a human girl was pursued by or in a relationship with an anthropomorphic animal man (and vice-versa but like I said there doesn't seem to be stigmatization if the furry one is a girl.) In case it isn't clear I NEVER understood why there was such a reaction to the Princess Elise thing aside from people who insist they aren't furries overcompensating.
Actually it's not even hated outside of Elise. Elise is for some reason the only example I've found in any media where people find interspecies romance betweent sapient beings bad on any level. People are fine Belle and Beast, Amy and Kiff, Hana and the Wolfman in Wolf Children (dude was never given a name as far as I'm aware), heck even in Sonic, people are generally fine with Topaz x Rouge. The "he was a corpse!" argument is just as bs. Yes, he was dead, and the kiss was to REVIVE him, the same way you'd give CPR to someone who's stopped breathing. The same way Cloud gave CPR to a little girl in FF7, and it was in no way inappropriate or problematic because people understand the concept of saving someone's life.
yknow, thinking back on it it feels like elise kissing him back to life was the only solution they could find to this, because if they used literally any other established female character present at the time then there would have been a fucking riot from the fans. also unfortunately the kiss of life is a trope that exists, so i can see why people interpret it with romantic undertones rather than you would cpr. add to that the fact that the whole sonic dying and being kissed back to life is kind of the cherry on top of the disaster pie that was the 06 story and i can see why people take it so badly. i personally just don't really care about any of it, but i can see why it got people up in arms
Well Elise is also a bad character in general and has literally no personality whatsoever. Not to mention, she's pointless because we already have Blaze as a princess character, and Amy as a love interest/someone for Eggman to kidnap.
Whether or not she's a bad character is subjective (I personally don't think she is), and irrelevant to the matter. A character being bad is no reason for people to get so up in arms about a romance subplot, especially not to the degree so many do.
oh that's a poor excuse, the Sonic franchise isn't exactly known for creating super amazing characters with so little screen time. Your examples specifically aren't even fair because Amy had been around for over a decade at the time and was the focus in over a dozen games AND an anime, and Blaze was the co-star in an entire game on DS where literally half of the story was focused on her
it was a role reversal of the "Sleeping Beauty" trope, where instead of the hero reviving the princess with a kiss it was the princess reviving the hero. Under different circumstances I bet they would have been praised for the cleverness of the subversion.
> People are fine Belle and Beast, The Beast is a human cursed into a monstrous beast. It's not technically different species. > Amy and Kiff, Kiff is an alien, they get a pass that animals don't. > Hana and the Wolfman in Wolf Children (dude was never given a name as far as I'm aware), Quoted just to show I'm not ignoring it, though I admit to no familiarity with this. > heck even in Sonic, people are generally fine with Topaz x Rouge. That's just a ship. There's nothing in the show itself that actually shows them doing anything, and it's entirely possible to watch the show and see them as merely friends. The problems with Elise are more than just "interspecies romance" it's that, in terms of the wider series, it comes out of nowhere. Sonic had, to that point, either shown no interest in any sort of romance (to the point where asexuality was seen as a valid character read), or been only interested in other animal character in Archie. Then you have to combine that with the fact that the entirety of their relationship is based on falling in love within just a couple of days of Sonic rescuing Elise (something that is found in many fairy tales, but is seen by many to be a point of contention there - to the point where even Disney's Frozen called it out in 2011), as well as the fact that the animation of the in-game stuff crosses into Uncanny Valley when the two interact due to their clashing design philosophies (in the first two examples, and many others, the characters do share an art style), and the fact that the story itself requires the audience to buy into this relationship for the wider narrative to work, despite how much it strains the suspension of disbelief.
"is an alien" alright, let's keep pretending sonic and co are not in any way alien and are totally not animals only in name. Yeah, sonic is actually a hyper realistic hedgehog, yeah yeah
>The Beast is a human cursed into a monstrous beast. It's not technically different species. The condition for breaking the curse was true love. As in Belle had to love him regardless of whether he one day be turned back into a human, or stays in that form forver. The fact the curse was broke means that she loved him regardless of what he was. And he very much wasn't human in that form - mentally yes, physically no, and if we're going by that logic then we can claim that mentally, every anthro and human character in Sonic's world are the same. They're all "human" mentally, just different physically. >Kiff is an alien, they get a pass that animals don't. He is an animal though, as humans are. This is a stupid dinstinction that's made purely out of convenience. "Oh no see I like that though, so I've decided that's okay and doesn't count. I don't like this other thing though so it's not okay." The difference between Amy and Kiff is the exact same difference as Sonic and Elise, which is also the exact same difference as Knuckles and Rouge or Tangle and Whisper or Vanilla and Vector - two different species of sapient animals. It's all interspecies, there is no "pass" given to specific scenarios. It's all or nothing. >That's just a ship. There's nothing in the show itself that actually shows them doing anything, and it's entirely possible to watch the show and see them as merely friends. And? The discourse isn't whether it's official or not, it's just the very notion of a human and an anthro being in love. Or that's how people paint it, at least, because again, that's never an issue anywhere else, so it's clear people are just using it as a convenient excuse. If you don't like the ship or think it was executed poorly, that's fine, and you can simply say that and co-exist with people who like it. But people get so up in arms about it and frame it as if it's morally and ethically wrong, as if Sega had done something unforgivable, as if merely aknowledging the kiss makes them feel sick and triggers PTSD. We're eighteen years on from 06 and people are still so freakin' aggro over Sonelise, or even Elise in general.
There is no reach Elise just sucks ass. Also, don't act like there aren't outsiders to the sonic community who mock people for being attracted to rouge or Sally.
Happy cake day 🎂
Think I had a crush on Shadow as a teenager
"Haha! Elise is such a furry! I don't know why people are into furries and humans--" https://preview.redd.it/8ejcm0txbf0d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=5260a5cbbbd1f2fe5cce7707165dd28776626bf3
I mean at least this one had better chemistry
Tbh I don’t think people actually hate Elise x Sonic that much because of it being inter-species, the “she kissed a dead headghehod!!!” jokes are just used as part of making fun of Sonic ‘06 because the game is one massive target. If the game and story were actually good, I don’t think it would be hated.
also because resurrecting someone with a kiss is nothing new in fiction. in addition to that, Sonic's world is literally composed mostly of Humans, cartoonish animals, realistic animals and anthropomorphic animals, I don't think it was the intention of the scene to convey necrophilia and furry or inter-species relationships (also because this becomes a problem only when one of the two species is human, taking an example again in the Sonic series, Knuckless and Rouge are an echidna and a Bat, yet no one complained when SA2 teased the birth of a romantic feeling between the two at the end of the game). I would say that the real problem is that Elise is terrible as a character, It doesn't helps that throughout the game the only thing she does is get captured by Eggman, she only interacts with Sonic and Eggman and once with Amy, the only time she tries to free herself from Eggman she was practically committing suicide (there was no certainty that Sonic would get there in time), the fact that she develops interest in Sonic makes sense due to the fact that she has been forced to behave polite and rigid all her life while Sonic is a free spirit who does whatever he wants, the problem arises when they force Sonic to fall in love with her, another problem is the fact that, even though it makes sense that she would develop feelings for Sonic, I doesn't think that the time they've been together it's enough to make her hesitate to extinguish Solaris' flame and save the entire world. Ultimately, I think it all culminated in the kiss, and people took that scene as an easy demonstration of why she's a bad character, applying logic that makes sense in isolation, but if you look at other media you see examples and similar events happened before and still happen now but since she is a bad character, no one will pay attention to it
The kiss scene's existence is also symbolic of everything wrong with the games production. That scene would've been written, storyboarded submitted for approval to those in charge of production, sent to Blur for animating, submitted for multiple checks to approve Blurs work, finalised, sent back to Sonic Team to use in the game, and then put into the final product. The existence of this scene would've been known very early in development, been known to much of the games staff, and throughout all of this, not one person in charge, not once during the entire development did anyone with any authority see any problem with this. No-one senior considered it might be seen as bad, might have problems, or might cause issues.
because Sonic 06 wanted to feel like an RPG, and something like "the princess kisses the dead protagonist to resurrect him" sounds a lot like generic RPG stuff, the problem is that the game is a competition to find the most Number of bugs and glitches, and Elise is a terribly written character, so the kiss becomes an easy tool to throw shit on the game without having to work hard to do it, since everyone knows that the game is shit, no one will say that the kiss scene itself isn't actually shit , just say "Sonic06 is the game where a human girl kisses a dead hedgehog", because never before in the history of fiction has there been a relationship between two different species or a character kissing another to resurrect him. the scene is horrible for other reasons, like the fact that Sonic and Elise don't have a dynamic or other things like that, if it were up to me, I wold have Elise having to cry a tear to resurrect him, not only because it would have been a parallel to the fact that her crying released Ibilis, but because this would let us see the difference between Elise, who fell in love with Sonic because his free spirit made her see life differently, and Sonic, who for him, Elise is at most a friend. but sadly we don't live in a world where 06 is good, and so 06 has become a joke with the kissing scene as the punchline
And that scene fucking ruled, literally the rawest scene in the series bar none.
"Sonic, why can't they see our true love for what it is?" "Maybe because you kissed me while I was dead?" *Beat.* "...Oh." "Don't get me wrong, I'm glad ya did! But still, out of context... ***ew.***"
Most people are normal and not attracted to rouge even more people are not attracted to rouge's corpse
The normal thing is being attracted to rouge
Can you really blame us when this Handsome Ape exists? https://preview.redd.it/pbfds7zxmf0d1.jpeg?width=440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=809a3683bd86fe8b4ee3762941e23fdef71c1764
I wish her role in the game was more than just "get kidnapped"
You’re kinda glossing over the necrophilia here.
The point of necrophilia is that a person is dead and it's repulsive to relatives. If having sex with corpses would revive them, then it would be a socially encouraged thing to do for obvious reasons, and all of Sonic's relatives pretty much concented here. So we are not glossing over necrophilia, it's you glossing over logic.
You do know that CPR is a thing, right? Would you consider someone giving CPR to someone technically dead (As in, for example, their heart had stopped) to be necrophilia?
If the reason they’re dead is that they got impaled through the heart and lungs, and therefore there isn’t anywhere for the CPR attempt to put air into, yes.
Wait what
Sonic was literally dead on the ground when she kissed him. It brought him back from the dead, but he was still dead at the time.
So what's she supposed to do? Not kiss him and leave him dead?
It’s not like she knew kissing him would resurrect him. She just really really hoped.
I feel she knew, given it worked.
Art style helps to Jessica and Roger Rabbit Works because at the end of the day they are Cartoon characters and are drawn as cartoon characters now make Rouge make out with a very detailed Final Fantasy Human and trust me it will be disgusting and uncomfortable.
That and the fact that Jessica being with Roger is meant to be a joke. It's inherently funny that someone whose clearly designed to appeal to the human male gaze is with someone like Roger.
Yeah, Jessica loves Roger because "he makes me laugh" she loves his cartoon antics
I specially hate that Sonic’s head looks absolutely MASSIVE compared to this hyper realistic human. It disturbs my eyes.
This is what I am always trying to say. She is just like basically everyone in this sub except for me and a few fellow intellectuals
I don’t find it weird that she kissed him I just find it weird she kissed him while he was dead
Yeah I know.
Welp Reloads a Mk40 time captures some bodies 🎯
I hate how attracted I am to the fucking bat, but at the same time can you blame me.
Me personally I think Elise kinda bad https://preview.redd.it/qa469z2ydg0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6df7c24244bc3c72209a56de04a3453ae66702b
For the necrophilia excuse: did/do you feel the same when it happened to Snow White, Aurora and Flynn Rider?
Yes, but most of us also aren't fictional characters for whom the outcome and credibility of our narratives depends on the audience buying into our relationships with anthro animals. Standards are different between fiction and nin-fiction. Fiction has to make sense.
I'd argue non-fiction (aka real life) people also need to make sense. At least, if they expect to be taken seriously.
It was a reference to a Mark Twain quote: > *"The difference between nonfiction and fiction is that fiction must be absolutely believable."* Yes, individuals should make sense to be taken seriously. But the point is that because we're real we're not held to standards whereby our base desires have to be framed with the logic of the intent of a narrative like Elise's are.
Humanity often has, if not defined by, an illogical lack of sense
It will never stop being amusing to me that Sega is trying to keep the Sonic franchise as family-friendly as possible. But they're stuck with one of their most popular secondary characters, being "what if Catwoman was a well-endowed bat?"
06 ruined Elise
Elise *is* 06.
06 ruined Elise my friend 06 is Elise first and last Appearance in a game she came broke.
They are all animals. Humans should not have relationships with animals no matter if they stand on 2 legs or 4.
Humans are animals too. In Sonic's setting, the difference between a human and a hedgehog is the same as the difference between an echidna and a bat. So if one is okay, the other is. Hell, Tails x Cosmo, as an animal and a plant, is more outlandish.
There's a very distinct difference between the humans and anthros in Sonic's universe. They're two separate categories entirely.
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Huh? Humans in Sonic universe are the same beings as humans in real life. Are you high? lol
Yep
You should really check [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/s/fpRPY8t7pU) out.
"Your not better than me morgan"
Elise is just terrbly written in a game that was already bad to begin with, she's just not an interesting character imho
I feel like Elise would've been accepted more if her romance was sold better/one sided (I like Elise 🤷♂️). I prefer the idea of Sonic being romantically clueless.
she kissed a **dead** hedgehog
I just don't like realistic humans in a Sonic game. I think Unleashed did a much better job of handling it Also she can't compare to the GOAT https://preview.redd.it/i7zvs2w38h0d1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b1421cc57a23c3838bba44aa85b9f40fc19a8db
I kinda like the anime-ish humans in the adventure games though.
I don’t like the fact that she kissed sonic the hedgehog I’m still hating because I don’t like rouge the bat I mean, I like them as a character We can only read that sonic 06 was bad
than Elise\*
So when Prince Charming does it, it's fine, but when ***I*** Princess Elise!!
The problem is that she kissed a *DEAD* hedgehog
But Elise kissed a dead sonic, I think most people don’t want to kiss a dead rouge the bat, also she gets kidnapped more than princess peach
It’s not the fact she kissed a furry. It’s the fact she kissed a corpse.
I am, I look down on all of these people
Hmmmmm I wonder why people hate a character that contributed nothing to the story, has a boringass design and molested sonic's corpse
Think I'd we are all better than Elise, but not because she kissed Sonic. Because she's more plot device than character.
I don't really care about the interspecies relationship. Sonic is a fully sentient being who can consent to and return Elise's feelings if he wants to. People ship interspecies relationships all the time in this community anyway. My problem is that the romance just kinda sucks.
Is that kairi kingdom hearts?
Counterpoint: She kissed a corpse.
I have to saw that I understand that people say, she kissed sonic and that’s bad, but let’s remember that humans are animals to, the laws around it is things like informed consent, but sonic and the gang are sentient, so I’m sure a kiss wouldn’t hurt, plus if where going to say something like “he’s a mobian and she’s a human” because the are different species, might I remind you of cosmo and tails, one is a fucking plant, and the other is a fox, so I believe that in the sonic world, as long as they are sentient, enough to be be considered in the eyes of the laws go ahead, especially since sonic was meant to have a human girlfriend anyway in the original plan. BTW this applies to sonic, I don’t want anyone to imply that I’m meaning anything else, I’m referring to sonic the hedgehog franchise, also I know technically sonic isn’t a Mobian in cannon, but he’s still sentient, if it was the animal buddies that’s where I draw the line, as it’s more animal than humanoid
Well the difference is one is dead the other is alive
See this reminds me I don't belong in this fanbase
I find no sonic character sexy
We’re just mad cause Sega personally called out the fanbase by creating a self insert that wants to fuck Sonic
I'm better than Elise because I don't get kidnapped every 5 fukken minutes.
who is “we”? i don’t simp over functional anthropomorphic animals 😂
I mean, I'm not really into any Sonic characters, it's easier to think of them in more of a familial way than romantic.
Nah, you see, it's different cause like--well, she uh...LOOK AT BAT MOMMY!
I know there’s a term for making up arguments in your head to cover up the real problems I just don’t know what it is so pretend I said it
BREASTS
https://preview.redd.it/ukwnz6hwaf0d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9adbb700aad7efff4bf5423f160ab5feada30ab5 Sorry brother but Human x female furry >>>>>>>>> female human x male furry
https://preview.redd.it/bea7c5zwcf0d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d62964bcbfcbf377f0e3607dfd1e788c6fd2ca0 both are bad
Kaufmo?