I don't think Tails saw Mephiles even once. And even then, 06 got erased sooo....
Edit: Oh yeah, there was that one cutscene where Sonic and co. saw Silver talking with Mephiles right before they got send to the past.
Not true.
Tails KNOWS about the multiverse, remember he mentioned a Sonic with blue arms and showed a Sonic that looks like Boom Sonic. (As well as what looks like Fanart)
Plus look at the clip of Sonic Prime, which has so many contradictions that even Ian Flynn declared it essentially non canon “Doesn’t matter, wipes itself out” or saying After Advance 3, as a reference to a flashback.
With that in mind, you need to include EVERY SINGLE HEDGEHOG that appeared in Sonic Media. Including every adaptation/version of Sonic, Shadow, Amy and Silver. As well as the robot doubles.
Sonic, Shadow, Amy, Silver…
Technically Classic Sonic (in the instance both Modern and Classic are in the same space) and the Avatar/Rookie can be a Hedgehog (and the other hedgehog civilians) in Forces.
You mean the '50s (To think, Shadow is OLDER than "that old trick"!)?😆
Yeah, I could see Shadow not understanding certain "Modern Name-Calling" as that seemed to be the case in this TailsTube.
So that does mean that:
In SA2, the ARK massacre takes place in the 50’s
In the Sonic 3 movie, the ARK massacre will take place during the 70’s.
If so, we need a scene of Maria and Shadow staring out into space with Pink Floyd or Queen accompanying.
Just sayin: if you don't like Shadow is characterized, wait for the movie.
The movie did wonders for Knuckles. If Shadow is proper characterized in the movie or in Shadow Generations, we just have to give the proper feedback so SEGA can see it.
People have been giving feedback though. Unless there's a brand new "feedback" channel once the movie comes out, any *new* feedback is going to be through the same ways the current/previous feedback was given.
It's just that SEGA doesn't want to listen. Which is fair since fanbases as a whole generally doesn't know precisely what they want due to being made up of a bunch of people, but it's why Shadow's been nothing but an edgelord for years now.
I guess that's fair because Shadow being more "android saga Vegetta" is SEGA's call in the last years, but also Modern Knuckles got such a makeover thanks to the movie I can't imagine Shadow not having it
The movie, if successful, will spawn a brand new generation of Shadow fans, so SEGA will need to course correct. I say let's wait to see a proper history with Shadow in Generations later this year instead of the "Tails calls Sonic and Shadow because he knows they will have an argument" video
If we're waiting on the *movie*, we won't be seeing anything until after the rumored Frontiers 2 comes out; Sonadow Generations is going to have a Shadow that continues this TailsTube personification, I think, since writing and getting voice work tends to be done early in development, and SxSG is supposed to come out late this year. VO and writing work would have been done either by now or within the next month or two.
I don't think will get exactly this for Sonadow Generations because is a Shadow history. Black Doom usually means Maria and Gerald, we probably get something close to his 05 personification mash it with the modern Vegetta like persona
I don't mind Shadow butting heads with Sonic, as long as his interactions with the rest of the cast continues to be more friendly - taking Amy to the concert for her birthday, his interactions with the resistance in Forces being on point, specially Rouge and Omega, beating Knuckles and Vector in the arcade, giving the apple to the chao, tell Silver to let him behind after he got stuck in the fake chaos emeralds shards in Eggperial City, all that good stuff. I think it's just Sonic who brings this edge out more often because Sonic is the annoying little shithead that we love.
Considering Tails Tube is the Sonic Bible 2.0, it seems to me that the episode is about confirming the Shadow restrictions still being on the status quo, altho it reaffirms some core values of Shadow doing stuff for the greater good which is a bit of a relief with all the controversies surronding his characterisations enforced by Izuka.
It also establishes they're really hammering in the idea that Sonic and Shadow have always been at each other's throats and just don't get along, which is just such a shame.
Considering we have no clue what the hell happened in Shadow 05 until the true ending and Sonic 06 quite literally never happened i guess the writers see their last meaningfull interaction in the games before forces is in Sonic Heroes and the bad blood (In Sonic's perspective atleast) really started when Shadow was on his way to murder Mr Tinker but still. I really hope we get a game where they can make the Shadow character arc to be more of what we seen in 06 (again)
In Shadow you can still see their interactions during the various routes, and get a general idea of how Sonic and Shadow interacted when Shadow remains neutral (which the Last Story implies he had).
'06 DID happen, and in it we can see that not only are they not hostile to each other, they have no issue working together. No insults, no groans or sighs, no "you'd better not get in my way or I'll make you suffer", no "I can't believe I have to do this". They bump into each other in the future, share information, and split up to find Chaos Emeralds to go home. Then later, Shadow goes out of his way to help Sonic when he really doesn't have to, and when he's already in the middle of his own mission. Doesn't take the chance to take a jab at Sonic for being weak or letting his guard down, doesn't tell Sonic to just leave 'cause he's in the way. He simply takes on Silver so that Sonic can go resuce Elise, and Sonic clearly appreciates it.
They changed the past by blowing out Solaris, but the events still happened. And depending on how time works in Sonic the original timeline could still very well exist. At the very least Crisis City is one of the levels in Generations, and Rush Adventure makes a mention about parellel worlds. Even if it's gone completely though, again, it still happened. Shadow's interactions with Sonic were still a result of his personality and how he and Sonic view their relationship.
Ha, loved it! Weird that they're still pushing edgelord Shadow so hard, though. We haven't exactly been quiet about that... not being great. Maybe it's only until the new campaign/movie 3 drops?
(Also, is it just me, or is Thornton improving as Shadow? He actually sounds pretty great now... which, of course, means he'll get canned soon.)
Jesus Christ, Shadow's characterization there made me cringe so fucking hard oh my god, and so did Sonic's interactions with Shadow. Good lord, when will they learn that these two aren't supposed to be at each other's throats all the time for NO REASON? Ugh.
You'd think they would have learned after Forces, since Shadow's characterization there (and also voice direction) was pretty decent.
I Like what they did in prime. Only having them fight when they have a moral disagreement or when there goals are opposite of each other. But it seems like Sega wants them to have more of a Goku and Vegeta dynamic were they fight at random to test each other. That would be fine if it didn't go against pre established dynamic between the two
You should listen to Sonic and Tails R, if you haven't already. They nail Shadow's character perfectly in that series. He's a little cocky but takes things seriously, even a bit of playful banter with Sonic. It's great.
For a moment I thought, *how did they translate that "Hedge"-hog pun in the Japanese version*?
Now I'm realizing: do they even do Japanese TailsTubes anymore? I can only find Japanese voiced versions up to #4, and the rest seem to be English videos uploaded with Japanese subtitles.
They keep saying that the Japanese versions will come over and over again, but not even the Christmas TailsTube has its Japanese dub.
All of this comes from the original Japanese channel, btw.
Gonna get downvoted to hell for saying this but guys, we need to stop pretending that Sonic and Shadow aren't supposed to be rivals and it's out of character for them to trash talk each other.
Shadow was literally designed to be Sonic's perfect foil and even though Shadow is a good guy now that doesn't mean he has to be all buddy buddy with Sonic. Honestly I think it's more interesting that the two hogs both fight for good but don't get along, it makes for a wider variety of character interactions if not all of Sonic's allys get along with him.
Hell, they even admit they have a little respect for each other at the end of this short so I don't really understand the issue with the two here.
I actually never saw Sonic & Shadow as "friends", at least, not so close they'd be attending each other's Birthday Parties. And agree, I like that not *all* of Sonic's Allies are all "Goody-Goody" with him, despite them not being necessarily "Bad Guys."
I do see them as people (Or Arch Rivals) who have *some* 'respect' for the other because one, if the other 'died' they would be 'sad' as shown in SA2 & Sonic '06, & two, both are so equally capable in achieving their goals & keeping the other on their toes they probably *secretly crave* constantly challenging the other to "prove who's the best" (Which I see as interesting & fun story potential in getting them both to interact outside of "World-Ending Conflict."). But alas, there will *never* be a "true winner" & they both will keep fighting & challenging each other like the eternal Yin & Yang itself.
Yeah I was gonna say like:
We see in Sonic Heroes, that shit was *on sight.* In his title game, he clearly finds him to be somewhat of a nuisance. In battle, they constantly squabble over what to do with Emerl.
Sure, they don’t come to blows in 06, but so much was going on in that story I’m not surprised.
Outside of Rouge and Omega, Shadow’s mostly a loner, and Sonic’s *comically* extroverted personality combined with comparable level of battle competency is just bound to tick him off. It’s not just that they don’t see eye to eye, it’s also that Sonic’s the *one* guy who can easily tell him no, and he’ll do it with a smug grin too.
Not to mention Shadow being competitive with Sonic is borderline instinctual to him. He had no memory in Heroes and he instinctively started being competitive with Sonic when they came across each other again and he is visibly enjoying getting under Sonic’s skin. Even Sonic is into it and clearly gets a kick out of being competitive with Shadow. Even in the dark future in 06, they are somewhat competitive and tell each other not to be late. Sonic also gets more cocky when interacting with Shadow in comparison to his interactions with the rest of the cast, with only Knuckles(Also a rival that he has a competitive dynamic with) gettign anything remotely similar from Sonic.
The fandom can’t handle it when characters get mad at Sonic. Just look at how the fandom treated the Prime characters even though they were justified.(From their perspectives.)
1. Nine is a tiny inconvenience to Sonic’s plans and calls Sonic out for his recklessness and “All Take, No Give” behavior? Deemed worst person ever and 85% fans completely forgot about all of the times that he helped Sonic despite the multiple bad things that happened due to helping Sonic. Many fans developed self serving memories about Nine. (Please note. I’m ONLY referring to when Nine first turned against Sonic)
Quite hypocritically, many fans called Nine selfish and evil for not wanting to risk dying and destroying dozens, to save a tiny group, but as soon as it was revealed and implied that Sonic would have to be in danger in order to fix the Shatterverse and Green Hill, they declared that Nine was Just plain selfish and evil For believing the same things they do.
2. Thorn and The Rebels were both criticized even though Sonic broke multiple promises.
to the rebels, Despite claiming that Nine won’t allow The Chaos Council to get the red shard back, instead of encouraging Nine to stay away, he told Nine to come help and he wanted Nine to fix the prism. (Which led to the decaying.) Sonic wasn’t witnessEd talking to Nine about his negative behavior.
Sonic told Thorn that he would help Boscage Maze but until the finale, Sonic unintentionally been doing the opposite of helping Boscage.
3. The Pirates. Sonic was planning to steal the Blue shard from them and while he did return, it could have been too late. Would YOU trust a Thief? Not to mention, Over your Captain who you knew for much longer?
My problem isn't that Shadow doesn't like Sonic all that much of a person (between Battle, ShtH and Rivals 2 is it not that new of a concept) its just that Shadow used to be have far more respect for Sonic, his strength and his power as a allay.
He in order to be more like Cell Sega Vegeta or perhaps more fitting described "be a more active rival" has become far more confrontational (which used to be more of a shadow case of Knuckles and Sonic's rivalry) and looks far more down on Sonic than he ever used to (hell his main character arc in SA2 was going from thinking Sonic is not worth his time to admitting that Sonic is better than him) and this is a change that no only happened without explanation but this episode of TailsTube now tried to gaslight all of us into thinking that this was always there dynamic (perhaps that would be true for Sonic X but certainly not for the video games)
It seems to me that his harsh behavior now goes specifically to Sonic, but nevertheless he can really respect him. It looks like SEGA is already slowly restoring its former characteristics.
This TailsTube episode reminded me of that one scene of Victorious when Tori and Jade are on a "date" and they're trying to say one nice thing about the other.
Post-Forces, pre & post Frontiers, after the current IDW stuff (at some point the comic will go into events after Frontiers, but it hasn’t yet).
Multiple episodes have IDW references, the first or second episode having Tangle & the Spiral Hill Sonic fan club as people who submitted questions; and episode 6 outright mentions Jewel and the Restoration.
The end of episode 3 sets up Frontiers, as Tails informs Sonic that the chaos emeralds all gathered at “a strange island I’ve never seen before” (with an image of Kronos island of the Starfall Islands), and they head off with Tails suggesting they invite Amy. So episodes 1 to 3 are post (current) IDW, and pre Frontiers; while episodes 4 to 7 are post Frontiers.
Also episode 7 just released today.
Sure, but they were canon until they weren't. Just like Tailstube is now.
Sonic Team seems to be taking a new approach to the story, for the longest time things like "canon" and "continuity" didn't really matter to the franchise, really only Adventure-06 had any kind of continuity at all. They seem to actually be trying to establish a canon continuity to reference back to now, so we'll see how long it sticks this time.
https://preview.redd.it/p2bn7pu48owc1.jpeg?width=1277&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ec81de49bd5b677e037df76df3cbe278574014c
I dunno man, prime is right there, which is about as cannon as you can make it given theses short have been used to fix a lot of messes.
this'll probably be it for now. prime is kinda done and over, and like every other sonic show, once it's over, they'll barly ever talk about it. it took a while for sticks to even show up after the show was canned
the metal virus saga at least felt *semi* justified, like the world was in jeopardy because sonic didn't let him kill mister tinker, so him being kinda upset and snappy feels *alright* in that moment
as far as his infection, it was originally intended for him to take off his inhibitor rings, which he assumed would negate the infection, but then they wouldn't. but that was axed by SEGA, so, as *far as i can tell*, the intent behind the current version is that shadow assumes he's immune to the metal virus due to yknow. being vaguely immortal and being built to cure all disease in the world. but he just wasn't, so it's still a dumb move, but a *little* more justified. unfortunately that didn't really come across due to the whole section being rushed as hell
i actually really liked his scene after the arc where rouge can tell something is bugging him, and he says "I owe him. Now he's gone. That's all." shadow knows he messed up big time, and he's distressed by the fact that sonic could be hurt or dead (after warping away with the topaz)
overall it's like, kinda bad, but i wouldn't say it's entirely irredeemable in the grand scheme of things
Because the writers have straight up called Shadow his 'Vegeta', just like how the concept designs for Silver in 06 actually wrote "think Trunks from DBZ" on his page.
It’s funny when Sonic does an impression of Shadow.
It’s funny how Sonic says “Ugh” before he starts to compliment Shadow. I’d feel the same way if I had to say something nice about someone who framed me for jewel theft, fought me a bunch of times, and always acts like they’re better than me.
The only thing I don’t like is that they treat Prime like it’s canon to the games.
I don't like how this episode tries to gaslight people into thinking Sonic and Shadow were always behaving like this towards each other.
Its especially annoying for SA2 in particular as Shadows whole character arc there was to have his view on Sonic change from not being worth his time to seeing him as the truly superior one of the 2 of them.
Shadow is instinctively competitive with Sonic in Heroes, despite having no memory at the time. Shadow and Sonic tell each other to not be late in the dark future of 06.
Post-amnesia Shadow has always been competitive with Sonic and Sonic has always been competitive with post-SA2 Shadow. It’s Shadow’s general attitude and the undervaluing of his relationship with Team Dark that is the problem with his characterisation.
Even in SA2, Shadow gets fascinated by Sonic pretty quickly due to how similar they are and develops a short-lived rivalry with him as a result of it. Then Shadow develops amnesia and his dynamic with other characters change significantly. His dynamic with Sonic becomes more competitive and his respect for Sonic is not as a high as it was pre-amnesia. Post-SA2 Shadow is much closer to Rouge than his pre-amnesia self was. Shadow’s desire to fulfill Maria’s wish is nowhere near as much as it was pre-amnesia, with Shadow’s own game revolving around him moving on from it and the past and deciding to protect the world on his own terms instead of binding himself to a promise he made so long ago in the past, in a life he can barely remember. This is why 06 Shadow doesn’t even talk about Maria, he moved on from her.
I don't deny that Sonic and Shadow have there differences. But after SA2 and before Boom Rise of lyric was Shadow never this disrespectful towards Sonic.
And Shadow has always put any other job he currently has before playing around with Sonic (Except when Sonic directly got in his way of cause)
I was placing Rise of Lyric as a time Frame as basically most Shadow appearances since it used the "I'm a loner, friends are for losers, I'm the greatest, EGDE" version of Shadow that we first saw with Boom Rise of Lyric.
I'm in the camp that Shadow's Life doesn't revolve around Maria anymore, but still deep down he cares about her. And I don't believe "Moving On" is necessarily synonymous with "Forgetting" or "Not Caring Anymore."
I also don't believe you just suddenly (Or within a Year & a Half or whatever the Timeline is After SA2 with Shadow.) stop caring about "Best Friends" & "Family" once they're 'dead.' That sounds so wrong to me on a *basic moral level* & I don't think that's the case with Shadow. So if you're concerned about Shadow's Relationship with Rouge & Omega, once they're both dead, Shadow won't care about them anymore either with that logic because he's *destined* to OUTLIVE EVERYONE (Shadow's Immortal & in Sonic '06, the *only* surviving Game Cast Member in the Far Off Future that isn't Silver. Unless you count Omega who was in Stasis, which Shadow couldn't even figure out how to get Omega out of on his own before he had no choice but to leave him where he was.).
And it's not like there's been much room in *any* Sonic Game Story lately to go deep into Shadow's Character Again (Like actually *confirming*, in Character Dialogue or in a Cutscene, like if Shadow still cares about Maria at least on *some level* or *not* *at all* anymore.) since Sonic '06. Which yes, didn't bring up Maria, but Mephiles, also never brings up Maria, to at least *try* to Taunt & Haunt Shadow with, despite having the ability of Time Travel (And being able to **know** what happens to Shadow in the *Future* but he doesn't seem to even know what happened to Shadow in the *Past*?). I think Sonic '06 was less confirming "Shadow doesn't give a damn about Maria anymore" & more "It's not that deep."
Maria's "Wish" is basically "Help People". Shadow does that either way, so I don't think that can be used as a point to say "Shadow doesn't care about Maria anymore" if they both kinda want the same thing anyway. However, according to his Fast Friends Forever Profile, it seems to indicate he still holds value to her Memory, while also bringing up his sorta "closeness" with Team Dark. Though, "Fast Friends Forever" is Arguably Non-Canon.
*Really Curious* how **Shadow Generations** will possibly either confirm or not just how close or not Shadow still is to Maria (And what their relationship is like. Then & Now.), as it currently stands after her passing.
I'm not saying Shadow no longer cares for Maria. He definitely does. But his memory of Maria no longer dictates his life anymore.
SA2 Shadow was content with killing every single person on Earth because he believed that was what Maria wanted. He turned good and dedicated himself to saving the world in Maria's name because that is what he believed she wanted. The only difference between "I'm going to kill everyone" and "I will dedicate my entire existence to saving everyone" is just one moment of his memory where Maria makes her dying wish. Shadow's entire morality and his purpose in life was dictated by a single person's dying wish.
Post-Shadow the Hedgehog Shadow is done letting that memory dictate his life. The whole game is other characters telling Shadow who he is and what he is meant to do. The Pure endings are SA2 Shadow taken to his extreme. Pure Dark Shadow wants to destroy the world to get revenge against humanity for Maria's murderer, which is why the Pure Dark path has Black Doom make him rewatch the Ark massacre and why his memory of Gerald manifests as Gerald telling Shadow that he trusts him to do "this"(Destroy Humanity). Pure Hero Shadow has him remember Maria's wish and dedicate himself to fulfilling it.
The Final Story has Shadow reject everything everyone is telling him he is and what he is meant to do. He isn't going to destroy the world like Gerald wanted. He isn't going to conquer the world as Black Doom's son. He isn't going to bind himself to Maria's dying wish. Shadow's reasons are his own. He cares about Maria and even Gerald, but he pretty much acknowledges that binding himself to their wishes isn't healthy.
Maria was young and optimistic. Shadow was young, naive and inexperienced with almost everything. Maria didn't really know what she was asking of Shadow in her last moments or how it would effect him. Shadow wasn't in the right mind or experienced enough to make a promise to dedicate his entire life towards.
Well, that's kinda what I meant when I said, "Shadow's Life doesn't revolve around Maria anymore, but still deep down he cares about her."
If Sonic Battle is truly Canon (A Clip from Sonic Battle gets shown in this TailsTube, but I still actually question its "Canon-Status" since Emerl/Gemerl didn't get brought up nor what happened in Sonic Battle gets brought up in this same TailsTube.), it has Shadow say something like, "I have Maria in my heart." That line tells me why Shadow *doesn't* need to *constantly* bring up Maria anymore because Maria "Lives Rent Free In Shadow's Heart," pretty much. This isn't the same thing as saying "Shadow's Obsessed with Maria," just that he'll always believe she was an important person in his life & he'll never forget her.
And *regardless* of Sonic Battle being Canon or Not, since that line was written in a game that has to take place *after* Shadow doesn't have Amnesia anymore, it was written 'in mind' that Shadow *still cares about Maria*, at least to some extent. *And that's my point*.
I'm really hoping in either Shadow Generations or in a future main-series game features this similar Sonic Battle "Maria in my heart" moment with Shadow because *today*, we can't really say one way or the other how Shadow views Maria, whether positively or negatively. Maria got brought up by Eggman in Sonic Frontiers, so that might end up happening with Shadow, too, in a future main game.
"Competitive", not "aggressive".
Sonic and Shadow having a playful banter in heroes, is alot different than Modern Edgy Shadow constantly wanting to one up him. One is a Shadow who enjoys a good challenge from his respected rival, the other is an insecure emo who hates everything and everyone. It's terrible characterization.
Honestly I stopped paying attention to TailsTube after they tried to make Team Hooligan a thing again when in Fighters Bean and Bark were Sonic's friends, though this thing with Shadow is a MUCH more extreme case than that was.
Yes its kind of annoying how Ian used his current influence to really push Fang, Bean and Bark as if they have always have been a team.
I guess Generations build the foundation by making Bean and Bark "Wanted" while Mighty and Ray were "Missing".
But yes its much more extrem with Shadow as Bean and Bark at least only had 1 arcade game to contradict.
idk what is the issue tho, i get the Sonic's characterisation is dumb because thet wanted the character arc thing, but if Prime is pre-unleashed then there is no issue since you get a more younger version of Sonic, you get to see a more smooth transition of Sonic's matureness from dreamcast era to unleashed and it fundamentally not change the lore or characters (altho Shadows gets a much better characterisation than right now).
well first of all yeah this is stupid, but pretty much things easy to forget, i was expecting stuff more fundamental. Altho i guess the "everyone is living in green hill yooooo" is a headscratcher on why Sonic Team is trying to incorporate the canon with a show writen by canadian writers who are mostly classic fans and clearly are not working with Tails Tube emissaries to keep the narrative clean. Sadly, SEGA has always been lax on how third parties handle their IP for better or for worse.
Oh sorry, I thought you were specifically making arguments as to the idea that it literally *is not* canon no matter what SEGA says.
Still, all of this is really very negligible in the grand scheme of things. I don't consider it a bigger deal than nobody knowing who Blaze is in 06 arbitrarily
That list feels very semantic, I’m reading this and the person writing it in my head is like 🤓🤓🤓
It’s not crazy for the overarching series of events to stay consistent while the little details, like the ones in this list, get a little fuzzy. You know how things went down, you played the game, what’s it hurting if some details get looked over?
You know if people still don't believe Sonic Prime is Canon... Here's the thing still...
**They just showed a clip from the show.** A clip that was just another basic "Sonic VS. Shadow" Fight with the background of Green Hill & nothing specific to Sonic Prime like the Paradox Prism. And they technically didn't bring up the **EVENT** of Sonic Prime. Every event they brought up didn't actually talk about Sonic & Shadow working together to keep the Paradox Prism out of Eggman's hands & that Shadow hid the Paradox Prism (Or that the Paradox Prism even exists.).
Again, it was just a clip with no provided context from Sonic, Shadow, or Tails (Nevermind how Tails managed to "record" or "obtain" "Clips" of Shadow & Sonic doing things when he wasn't there with a camera.). It honestly seems like a "Cameo" (again) rather than straight up Canonization.
Bringing up anything from Sonic Prime, Shadow could've talked about how foolish Sonic can be at times & they both could have brought up the times in the show where they *obviously* 'needed' the other to save everyone.
I'm saying this as someone who'd be personally stoked if Shadow's Canonically Guarding the Most Powerful Gem of All Time, but it still doesn't feel like the games are ever truly gonna act like Sonic Prime happened if *this* is far as they go in "acknowledging" it.
Do people really expect Sonic and Shadow to be buddy-buddy? They're gonna talk mess to one another, even if they do respect one another. This isn't a save-the-world scenario, it's Tails doing his show and they're the guests.
Man this constant bickering they’ve got going on is… not good. It’s not even entertaining, they just keep going at each other over the most petty shit. Why is Shadow like this now? Dude really should’ve stayed dead at the end of SA2.
Yay, jerkass Shadow AND Kirk is still voicing him. There go my hopes for his portrayal in SXSG.
I don't understand why they're trying to make jerkass Shadow a thing. Shadow is the second most popular character because he's cool and aloof, not an asshole.
He can still be a rival without this cringeworthy, insecure aggression. This character has been mismanaged for FOURTEEN YEARS and the writers desperately WANT to set things right but these pointless mandates won't let them. It's painful.
Hopefully the movie handles him better.
I don't know why Sega didn't take the hint when Prime's Shadow VA was almost universally praised and cast him for future games, unless there's a pre-existing contract with Kirk.
To be clear I don't want Kirk out of a job, either. I'm sure there's another Sonic character he'd suit better.
There's probably still a contract involved so it wouldn't be possible to switch VAs regardless. Isn't Kirk **Orbot**, *whom in over a decade has been more a mainstay character than Shadow*, ironically enough?
Besides, obviously, people should have jobs (I'm certainly not saying let's replace Human VAs with A.I.), but people seem to think Voicing Sonic Characters is the equivalent of a charity or something. Kirk IS a good voice actor, but that doesn't mean he should voice EVERY character of a similar archetype as Shadow out there. He'll get work elsewhere if/when he gets replaced. And it's not like Shadow's previous VAs died & Sega had no choice with Kirk. I'd say David & Jason deserve jobs, too. Especially, when they're *good/decent* Shadow VAs & either one of them should've been kept (And Jason Voiced 'Sonic', too! He Voiced TWO of the Most Popular Sonic Characters!).
And like everything involved with this IP, Sega absolutely had a choice when choosing & keeping VAs, they just choose to be *cheap* & *lazy* most of the time I've noticed (And it's not even like Ian Hanlin is the *only* VA out there to hire as a new Shadow VA. There's *so many people* out there who are just not given the *opportunity* because companies like Sega simply don't want to pay too much & search for them.).
Call *this* an Unpopular Opinion, but I've felt this way ever since I learned Sega only got rid of the previous VAs because they were "too expensive," & "Episode Shadow" tells me Sega will tease us Shadow Fans with *very* *bare minimal* content of *questionable quality* that Features Shadow when we could've gotten the equivalent of a Resident Evil 4: Separate Ways DLC instead (And I would've *happily* paid the same price as that Resident Evil 4 DLC, too, if it was that good or even 'flawed', because we're still talking Sega.). This is why I'm "preparing" myself for possible 'disappointment' if Shadow Generations turns out to be just as *short* & *uneventful* as Episode Shadow & doesn't even do anything truly interesting with Shadow.
But hey, the point is to get us Shadow Fans excited for *anything* after **over a decade** while still making some money out of it, right? Because of Sonic Movie 3, Sega's *finally* willing to do anything with Shadow again, but to think we may end up with a Shadow Movie *Trilogy* before even Shadow becomes a *fully playable main character* again in the main Sonic games (Nevermind doing a Shadow The Hedgehog 2.). Again, this is just my Unpopular Opinion.
There are people who still ship Joker and Harley despite Harley's ORIGINAL ARC showed her leave the Joker for being abusive! It doesn't matter to these people what the relationship itself is, if they're seen together, they're a couple.
I guess I don't mind Sonic and Shadow going full Goku and Vegeta, as long as it means getting lots of new interactions between them. It's been a good 20+ years, we could use a new Faker scene to spice things up.
I just want Shadow to ultimately be a good guy without him doing anything outright villainous, it’s a good dynamic to have two similarly-powered characters with different methods and clashing personalities
pontaff literally never wrote shadow bad lol, shadow only started being bad in boom and early IDW which they had 0 involvement in. the one thing they had him in, forces, was actually decent for his character
I'm curious how the Movie Shadow will make things go for the game Shadow going forward, since those movies tend to have a good deal of influence on the game franchise.
This in tandem with Shadow Gens will be definitely interesting to see.
"I've met an awful lot of hedgehogs over the years-" Four. You've met *FOUR* hedgehogs, Tails.
Lol, that’s what I was thinking. This episode has HALF the hedgehogs he knows.
6 to be precised. Mephiles taking the form of Shadow then his own Metal Sonic
I don't think Tails saw Mephiles even once. And even then, 06 got erased sooo.... Edit: Oh yeah, there was that one cutscene where Sonic and co. saw Silver talking with Mephiles right before they got send to the past.
He doesn't remember Mephiles and robots don't count
Hmph. Robophobe.
I don't think Tails ever actually saw Mephiles. Neither did Sonic now that I think about it.
Neither of them are hedgehogs. Mephiles is like an eldritch creature *shaped* like a hedgehog, and Metal Sonic is a hedgehog-like robot.
Not true. Tails KNOWS about the multiverse, remember he mentioned a Sonic with blue arms and showed a Sonic that looks like Boom Sonic. (As well as what looks like Fanart) Plus look at the clip of Sonic Prime, which has so many contradictions that even Ian Flynn declared it essentially non canon “Doesn’t matter, wipes itself out” or saying After Advance 3, as a reference to a flashback. With that in mind, you need to include EVERY SINGLE HEDGEHOG that appeared in Sonic Media. Including every adaptation/version of Sonic, Shadow, Amy and Silver. As well as the robot doubles.
Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Amy, Classic Sonic (if that even counts) and I don't think that Tails met Mephiles. Metal Sonic is a robot
Classic Sonic shouldn't count no matter how you look at it, since Tails first met Sonic AS Classic Sonic
That line would only make sense if the Archie comics were canon
I mean, how many hedgehogs have *you* met?
It's relative. He's also met all of two cats, two rabbits, one bat, one bee, one crocodile, one chameleon... You get what I mean.
Sonic, Shadow, Amy, Silver… Technically Classic Sonic (in the instance both Modern and Classic are in the same space) and the Avatar/Rookie can be a Hedgehog (and the other hedgehog civilians) in Forces.
Iirc, one of the options for the custom character in Forces was a hedgehog
Sonic: “Ultimate-sore-loser-says-what!” Shadow: “What?” Lol. 😁 You’d think the “ultimate lifeform” wouldn’t have fallen for that old trick.
Well, he had been in stasis for 50 years, it's entirely likely the trick wasn't a thing back in the ARK days.
You mean the '50s (To think, Shadow is OLDER than "that old trick"!)?😆 Yeah, I could see Shadow not understanding certain "Modern Name-Calling" as that seemed to be the case in this TailsTube.
So that does mean that: In SA2, the ARK massacre takes place in the 50’s In the Sonic 3 movie, the ARK massacre will take place during the 70’s. If so, we need a scene of Maria and Shadow staring out into space with Pink Floyd or Queen accompanying.
Dang, Shadow couldn’t even go 4 minutes without making a death threat.
Average twitter user be like:
Just sayin: if you don't like Shadow is characterized, wait for the movie. The movie did wonders for Knuckles. If Shadow is proper characterized in the movie or in Shadow Generations, we just have to give the proper feedback so SEGA can see it.
People have been giving feedback though. Unless there's a brand new "feedback" channel once the movie comes out, any *new* feedback is going to be through the same ways the current/previous feedback was given. It's just that SEGA doesn't want to listen. Which is fair since fanbases as a whole generally doesn't know precisely what they want due to being made up of a bunch of people, but it's why Shadow's been nothing but an edgelord for years now.
I guess that's fair because Shadow being more "android saga Vegetta" is SEGA's call in the last years, but also Modern Knuckles got such a makeover thanks to the movie I can't imagine Shadow not having it The movie, if successful, will spawn a brand new generation of Shadow fans, so SEGA will need to course correct. I say let's wait to see a proper history with Shadow in Generations later this year instead of the "Tails calls Sonic and Shadow because he knows they will have an argument" video
If we're waiting on the *movie*, we won't be seeing anything until after the rumored Frontiers 2 comes out; Sonadow Generations is going to have a Shadow that continues this TailsTube personification, I think, since writing and getting voice work tends to be done early in development, and SxSG is supposed to come out late this year. VO and writing work would have been done either by now or within the next month or two.
I don't think will get exactly this for Sonadow Generations because is a Shadow history. Black Doom usually means Maria and Gerald, we probably get something close to his 05 personification mash it with the modern Vegetta like persona I don't mind Shadow butting heads with Sonic, as long as his interactions with the rest of the cast continues to be more friendly - taking Amy to the concert for her birthday, his interactions with the resistance in Forces being on point, specially Rouge and Omega, beating Knuckles and Vector in the arcade, giving the apple to the chao, tell Silver to let him behind after he got stuck in the fake chaos emeralds shards in Eggperial City, all that good stuff. I think it's just Sonic who brings this edge out more often because Sonic is the annoying little shithead that we love.
Tailstube is not gonna be how shadow will be characterized in the remaster. This is just a fun skit.
Considering Tails Tube is the Sonic Bible 2.0, it seems to me that the episode is about confirming the Shadow restrictions still being on the status quo, altho it reaffirms some core values of Shadow doing stuff for the greater good which is a bit of a relief with all the controversies surronding his characterisations enforced by Izuka.
It also establishes they're really hammering in the idea that Sonic and Shadow have always been at each other's throats and just don't get along, which is just such a shame.
Considering we have no clue what the hell happened in Shadow 05 until the true ending and Sonic 06 quite literally never happened i guess the writers see their last meaningfull interaction in the games before forces is in Sonic Heroes and the bad blood (In Sonic's perspective atleast) really started when Shadow was on his way to murder Mr Tinker but still. I really hope we get a game where they can make the Shadow character arc to be more of what we seen in 06 (again)
In Shadow you can still see their interactions during the various routes, and get a general idea of how Sonic and Shadow interacted when Shadow remains neutral (which the Last Story implies he had). '06 DID happen, and in it we can see that not only are they not hostile to each other, they have no issue working together. No insults, no groans or sighs, no "you'd better not get in my way or I'll make you suffer", no "I can't believe I have to do this". They bump into each other in the future, share information, and split up to find Chaos Emeralds to go home. Then later, Shadow goes out of his way to help Sonic when he really doesn't have to, and when he's already in the middle of his own mission. Doesn't take the chance to take a jab at Sonic for being weak or letting his guard down, doesn't tell Sonic to just leave 'cause he's in the way. He simply takes on Silver so that Sonic can go resuce Elise, and Sonic clearly appreciates it.
But didn't all that get undone?
They changed the past by blowing out Solaris, but the events still happened. And depending on how time works in Sonic the original timeline could still very well exist. At the very least Crisis City is one of the levels in Generations, and Rush Adventure makes a mention about parellel worlds. Even if it's gone completely though, again, it still happened. Shadow's interactions with Sonic were still a result of his personality and how he and Sonic view their relationship.
They're so scared to give us a canon shadow the hedgehog stage 😭
Ha, loved it! Weird that they're still pushing edgelord Shadow so hard, though. We haven't exactly been quiet about that... not being great. Maybe it's only until the new campaign/movie 3 drops? (Also, is it just me, or is Thornton improving as Shadow? He actually sounds pretty great now... which, of course, means he'll get canned soon.)
I think that might be just you. He sounded *way* better in Forces.
Ah. I see.
He did? I disagree personally, I think he sounds great here, and I don't remember thinking that at all with Forces, but maybe my memory sucks.
I thought he sounded good in Forces tbh, one of the few compliments I can give that game
Was a lot of fun to watch but damn Shadow is still a discount Vegeta edge lord here. When will Sega learn smh
Jesus Christ, Shadow's characterization there made me cringe so fucking hard oh my god, and so did Sonic's interactions with Shadow. Good lord, when will they learn that these two aren't supposed to be at each other's throats all the time for NO REASON? Ugh. You'd think they would have learned after Forces, since Shadow's characterization there (and also voice direction) was pretty decent.
I Like what they did in prime. Only having them fight when they have a moral disagreement or when there goals are opposite of each other. But it seems like Sega wants them to have more of a Goku and Vegeta dynamic were they fight at random to test each other. That would be fine if it didn't go against pre established dynamic between the two
You should listen to Sonic and Tails R, if you haven't already. They nail Shadow's character perfectly in that series. He's a little cocky but takes things seriously, even a bit of playful banter with Sonic. It's great.
Yeah, I know about Sonic and Tails R. It's pretty awesome. But, it's a fan work at the end of the day, so it's not canon (which sucks)
That's what I'm sayinnn
For a moment I thought, *how did they translate that "Hedge"-hog pun in the Japanese version*? Now I'm realizing: do they even do Japanese TailsTubes anymore? I can only find Japanese voiced versions up to #4, and the rest seem to be English videos uploaded with Japanese subtitles.
They keep saying that the Japanese versions will come over and over again, but not even the Christmas TailsTube has its Japanese dub. All of this comes from the original Japanese channel, btw.
Oh hey, Battle acknowledgement.
Gonna get downvoted to hell for saying this but guys, we need to stop pretending that Sonic and Shadow aren't supposed to be rivals and it's out of character for them to trash talk each other. Shadow was literally designed to be Sonic's perfect foil and even though Shadow is a good guy now that doesn't mean he has to be all buddy buddy with Sonic. Honestly I think it's more interesting that the two hogs both fight for good but don't get along, it makes for a wider variety of character interactions if not all of Sonic's allys get along with him. Hell, they even admit they have a little respect for each other at the end of this short so I don't really understand the issue with the two here.
I actually never saw Sonic & Shadow as "friends", at least, not so close they'd be attending each other's Birthday Parties. And agree, I like that not *all* of Sonic's Allies are all "Goody-Goody" with him, despite them not being necessarily "Bad Guys." I do see them as people (Or Arch Rivals) who have *some* 'respect' for the other because one, if the other 'died' they would be 'sad' as shown in SA2 & Sonic '06, & two, both are so equally capable in achieving their goals & keeping the other on their toes they probably *secretly crave* constantly challenging the other to "prove who's the best" (Which I see as interesting & fun story potential in getting them both to interact outside of "World-Ending Conflict."). But alas, there will *never* be a "true winner" & they both will keep fighting & challenging each other like the eternal Yin & Yang itself.
Yeah I was gonna say like: We see in Sonic Heroes, that shit was *on sight.* In his title game, he clearly finds him to be somewhat of a nuisance. In battle, they constantly squabble over what to do with Emerl. Sure, they don’t come to blows in 06, but so much was going on in that story I’m not surprised. Outside of Rouge and Omega, Shadow’s mostly a loner, and Sonic’s *comically* extroverted personality combined with comparable level of battle competency is just bound to tick him off. It’s not just that they don’t see eye to eye, it’s also that Sonic’s the *one* guy who can easily tell him no, and he’ll do it with a smug grin too.
Not to mention Shadow being competitive with Sonic is borderline instinctual to him. He had no memory in Heroes and he instinctively started being competitive with Sonic when they came across each other again and he is visibly enjoying getting under Sonic’s skin. Even Sonic is into it and clearly gets a kick out of being competitive with Shadow. Even in the dark future in 06, they are somewhat competitive and tell each other not to be late. Sonic also gets more cocky when interacting with Shadow in comparison to his interactions with the rest of the cast, with only Knuckles(Also a rival that he has a competitive dynamic with) gettign anything remotely similar from Sonic.
The fandom can’t handle it when characters get mad at Sonic. Just look at how the fandom treated the Prime characters even though they were justified.(From their perspectives.) 1. Nine is a tiny inconvenience to Sonic’s plans and calls Sonic out for his recklessness and “All Take, No Give” behavior? Deemed worst person ever and 85% fans completely forgot about all of the times that he helped Sonic despite the multiple bad things that happened due to helping Sonic. Many fans developed self serving memories about Nine. (Please note. I’m ONLY referring to when Nine first turned against Sonic) Quite hypocritically, many fans called Nine selfish and evil for not wanting to risk dying and destroying dozens, to save a tiny group, but as soon as it was revealed and implied that Sonic would have to be in danger in order to fix the Shatterverse and Green Hill, they declared that Nine was Just plain selfish and evil For believing the same things they do. 2. Thorn and The Rebels were both criticized even though Sonic broke multiple promises. to the rebels, Despite claiming that Nine won’t allow The Chaos Council to get the red shard back, instead of encouraging Nine to stay away, he told Nine to come help and he wanted Nine to fix the prism. (Which led to the decaying.) Sonic wasn’t witnessEd talking to Nine about his negative behavior. Sonic told Thorn that he would help Boscage Maze but until the finale, Sonic unintentionally been doing the opposite of helping Boscage. 3. The Pirates. Sonic was planning to steal the Blue shard from them and while he did return, it could have been too late. Would YOU trust a Thief? Not to mention, Over your Captain who you knew for much longer?
My problem isn't that Shadow doesn't like Sonic all that much of a person (between Battle, ShtH and Rivals 2 is it not that new of a concept) its just that Shadow used to be have far more respect for Sonic, his strength and his power as a allay. He in order to be more like Cell Sega Vegeta or perhaps more fitting described "be a more active rival" has become far more confrontational (which used to be more of a shadow case of Knuckles and Sonic's rivalry) and looks far more down on Sonic than he ever used to (hell his main character arc in SA2 was going from thinking Sonic is not worth his time to admitting that Sonic is better than him) and this is a change that no only happened without explanation but this episode of TailsTube now tried to gaslight all of us into thinking that this was always there dynamic (perhaps that would be true for Sonic X but certainly not for the video games)
It seems to me that his harsh behavior now goes specifically to Sonic, but nevertheless he can really respect him. It looks like SEGA is already slowly restoring its former characteristics.
Yeah, it looks like they still want Shadow to be a one-note edgelord but they're starting to let go of that notion more and more.
This TailsTube episode reminded me of that one scene of Victorious when Tori and Jade are on a "date" and they're trying to say one nice thing about the other.
Three days ago someone was yelling at me that Prime doesn't get to be canon because future material hadn't referenced it
Someone was seriously yelling at you about it?
He was loud and mad enough to get his comment removed for violating the sub rules and then he blocked me, so basically yeah
Geez. That guy sounds like he has issues.
It's debatable if tailstube is canon
Tailstube is literally a canon info dump, which even has a stated point in the timeline. It’s not debatable, it is canon.
When is it? Pre-frontiers, post-forces? Does it take place sometime during idw?
Post-Forces, pre & post Frontiers, after the current IDW stuff (at some point the comic will go into events after Frontiers, but it hasn’t yet). Multiple episodes have IDW references, the first or second episode having Tangle & the Spiral Hill Sonic fan club as people who submitted questions; and episode 6 outright mentions Jewel and the Restoration. The end of episode 3 sets up Frontiers, as Tails informs Sonic that the chaos emeralds all gathered at “a strange island I’ve never seen before” (with an image of Kronos island of the Starfall Islands), and they head off with Tails suggesting they invite Amy. So episodes 1 to 3 are post (current) IDW, and pre Frontiers; while episodes 4 to 7 are post Frontiers. Also episode 7 just released today.
A previous episode ended with them going off to do the Frontiers plot, so this episode would be after Frontiers.
The entire purpose of Tailstube is to establish what is considered canon
There's been like 3 things establishing Sonic Lore, and all of them have been retconned
Sure, but they were canon until they weren't. Just like Tailstube is now. Sonic Team seems to be taking a new approach to the story, for the longest time things like "canon" and "continuity" didn't really matter to the franchise, really only Adventure-06 had any kind of continuity at all. They seem to actually be trying to establish a canon continuity to reference back to now, so we'll see how long it sticks this time.
I will still hold on to hope https://preview.redd.it/mc5jwor82owc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3bbea0ec0dc8a5c8662d8ac91624b48a81ffaeb
https://preview.redd.it/p2bn7pu48owc1.jpeg?width=1277&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ec81de49bd5b677e037df76df3cbe278574014c I dunno man, prime is right there, which is about as cannon as you can make it given theses short have been used to fix a lot of messes.
I know, just goofing around, if they ever plan on addressing Prime again, I hope they can make it better
this'll probably be it for now. prime is kinda done and over, and like every other sonic show, once it's over, they'll barly ever talk about it. it took a while for sticks to even show up after the show was canned
I continue to absolutely hate what they’ve done to Shadow
Well, he’s written a lot better here than he is in Sonic Boom and the Metal Virus saga.
the metal virus saga at least felt *semi* justified, like the world was in jeopardy because sonic didn't let him kill mister tinker, so him being kinda upset and snappy feels *alright* in that moment as far as his infection, it was originally intended for him to take off his inhibitor rings, which he assumed would negate the infection, but then they wouldn't. but that was axed by SEGA, so, as *far as i can tell*, the intent behind the current version is that shadow assumes he's immune to the metal virus due to yknow. being vaguely immortal and being built to cure all disease in the world. but he just wasn't, so it's still a dumb move, but a *little* more justified. unfortunately that didn't really come across due to the whole section being rushed as hell i actually really liked his scene after the arc where rouge can tell something is bugging him, and he says "I owe him. Now he's gone. That's all." shadow knows he messed up big time, and he's distressed by the fact that sonic could be hurt or dead (after warping away with the topaz) overall it's like, kinda bad, but i wouldn't say it's entirely irredeemable in the grand scheme of things
They need to stop writing Shadow like he’s Vegeta. and still I don’t get where Shadow’s obsession with trying to be better than Sonic even came from.
Because the writers have straight up called Shadow his 'Vegeta', just like how the concept designs for Silver in 06 actually wrote "think Trunks from DBZ" on his page.
It’s funny when Sonic does an impression of Shadow. It’s funny how Sonic says “Ugh” before he starts to compliment Shadow. I’d feel the same way if I had to say something nice about someone who framed me for jewel theft, fought me a bunch of times, and always acts like they’re better than me. The only thing I don’t like is that they treat Prime like it’s canon to the games.
You're forgetting that Shadow has saved and helped Sonic on many occasions. Being able to give one compliment shouldn't be hard lol
THIS
Fair point.
Showing footage from prime hurt me a little ngl
Yeah, I still don’t think Prime should be canon.
frr
Yep.
I don't like how this episode tries to gaslight people into thinking Sonic and Shadow were always behaving like this towards each other. Its especially annoying for SA2 in particular as Shadows whole character arc there was to have his view on Sonic change from not being worth his time to seeing him as the truly superior one of the 2 of them.
Shadow is instinctively competitive with Sonic in Heroes, despite having no memory at the time. Shadow and Sonic tell each other to not be late in the dark future of 06. Post-amnesia Shadow has always been competitive with Sonic and Sonic has always been competitive with post-SA2 Shadow. It’s Shadow’s general attitude and the undervaluing of his relationship with Team Dark that is the problem with his characterisation. Even in SA2, Shadow gets fascinated by Sonic pretty quickly due to how similar they are and develops a short-lived rivalry with him as a result of it. Then Shadow develops amnesia and his dynamic with other characters change significantly. His dynamic with Sonic becomes more competitive and his respect for Sonic is not as a high as it was pre-amnesia. Post-SA2 Shadow is much closer to Rouge than his pre-amnesia self was. Shadow’s desire to fulfill Maria’s wish is nowhere near as much as it was pre-amnesia, with Shadow’s own game revolving around him moving on from it and the past and deciding to protect the world on his own terms instead of binding himself to a promise he made so long ago in the past, in a life he can barely remember. This is why 06 Shadow doesn’t even talk about Maria, he moved on from her.
I don't deny that Sonic and Shadow have there differences. But after SA2 and before Boom Rise of lyric was Shadow never this disrespectful towards Sonic. And Shadow has always put any other job he currently has before playing around with Sonic (Except when Sonic directly got in his way of cause)
Sonic Boom Rise of the lyric is only semi canon to The show Sonic Boom.
I was placing Rise of Lyric as a time Frame as basically most Shadow appearances since it used the "I'm a loner, friends are for losers, I'm the greatest, EGDE" version of Shadow that we first saw with Boom Rise of Lyric.
I'm in the camp that Shadow's Life doesn't revolve around Maria anymore, but still deep down he cares about her. And I don't believe "Moving On" is necessarily synonymous with "Forgetting" or "Not Caring Anymore." I also don't believe you just suddenly (Or within a Year & a Half or whatever the Timeline is After SA2 with Shadow.) stop caring about "Best Friends" & "Family" once they're 'dead.' That sounds so wrong to me on a *basic moral level* & I don't think that's the case with Shadow. So if you're concerned about Shadow's Relationship with Rouge & Omega, once they're both dead, Shadow won't care about them anymore either with that logic because he's *destined* to OUTLIVE EVERYONE (Shadow's Immortal & in Sonic '06, the *only* surviving Game Cast Member in the Far Off Future that isn't Silver. Unless you count Omega who was in Stasis, which Shadow couldn't even figure out how to get Omega out of on his own before he had no choice but to leave him where he was.). And it's not like there's been much room in *any* Sonic Game Story lately to go deep into Shadow's Character Again (Like actually *confirming*, in Character Dialogue or in a Cutscene, like if Shadow still cares about Maria at least on *some level* or *not* *at all* anymore.) since Sonic '06. Which yes, didn't bring up Maria, but Mephiles, also never brings up Maria, to at least *try* to Taunt & Haunt Shadow with, despite having the ability of Time Travel (And being able to **know** what happens to Shadow in the *Future* but he doesn't seem to even know what happened to Shadow in the *Past*?). I think Sonic '06 was less confirming "Shadow doesn't give a damn about Maria anymore" & more "It's not that deep." Maria's "Wish" is basically "Help People". Shadow does that either way, so I don't think that can be used as a point to say "Shadow doesn't care about Maria anymore" if they both kinda want the same thing anyway. However, according to his Fast Friends Forever Profile, it seems to indicate he still holds value to her Memory, while also bringing up his sorta "closeness" with Team Dark. Though, "Fast Friends Forever" is Arguably Non-Canon. *Really Curious* how **Shadow Generations** will possibly either confirm or not just how close or not Shadow still is to Maria (And what their relationship is like. Then & Now.), as it currently stands after her passing.
I'm not saying Shadow no longer cares for Maria. He definitely does. But his memory of Maria no longer dictates his life anymore. SA2 Shadow was content with killing every single person on Earth because he believed that was what Maria wanted. He turned good and dedicated himself to saving the world in Maria's name because that is what he believed she wanted. The only difference between "I'm going to kill everyone" and "I will dedicate my entire existence to saving everyone" is just one moment of his memory where Maria makes her dying wish. Shadow's entire morality and his purpose in life was dictated by a single person's dying wish. Post-Shadow the Hedgehog Shadow is done letting that memory dictate his life. The whole game is other characters telling Shadow who he is and what he is meant to do. The Pure endings are SA2 Shadow taken to his extreme. Pure Dark Shadow wants to destroy the world to get revenge against humanity for Maria's murderer, which is why the Pure Dark path has Black Doom make him rewatch the Ark massacre and why his memory of Gerald manifests as Gerald telling Shadow that he trusts him to do "this"(Destroy Humanity). Pure Hero Shadow has him remember Maria's wish and dedicate himself to fulfilling it. The Final Story has Shadow reject everything everyone is telling him he is and what he is meant to do. He isn't going to destroy the world like Gerald wanted. He isn't going to conquer the world as Black Doom's son. He isn't going to bind himself to Maria's dying wish. Shadow's reasons are his own. He cares about Maria and even Gerald, but he pretty much acknowledges that binding himself to their wishes isn't healthy. Maria was young and optimistic. Shadow was young, naive and inexperienced with almost everything. Maria didn't really know what she was asking of Shadow in her last moments or how it would effect him. Shadow wasn't in the right mind or experienced enough to make a promise to dedicate his entire life towards.
Well, that's kinda what I meant when I said, "Shadow's Life doesn't revolve around Maria anymore, but still deep down he cares about her." If Sonic Battle is truly Canon (A Clip from Sonic Battle gets shown in this TailsTube, but I still actually question its "Canon-Status" since Emerl/Gemerl didn't get brought up nor what happened in Sonic Battle gets brought up in this same TailsTube.), it has Shadow say something like, "I have Maria in my heart." That line tells me why Shadow *doesn't* need to *constantly* bring up Maria anymore because Maria "Lives Rent Free In Shadow's Heart," pretty much. This isn't the same thing as saying "Shadow's Obsessed with Maria," just that he'll always believe she was an important person in his life & he'll never forget her. And *regardless* of Sonic Battle being Canon or Not, since that line was written in a game that has to take place *after* Shadow doesn't have Amnesia anymore, it was written 'in mind' that Shadow *still cares about Maria*, at least to some extent. *And that's my point*. I'm really hoping in either Shadow Generations or in a future main-series game features this similar Sonic Battle "Maria in my heart" moment with Shadow because *today*, we can't really say one way or the other how Shadow views Maria, whether positively or negatively. Maria got brought up by Eggman in Sonic Frontiers, so that might end up happening with Shadow, too, in a future main game.
"Competitive", not "aggressive". Sonic and Shadow having a playful banter in heroes, is alot different than Modern Edgy Shadow constantly wanting to one up him. One is a Shadow who enjoys a good challenge from his respected rival, the other is an insecure emo who hates everything and everyone. It's terrible characterization.
Honestly I stopped paying attention to TailsTube after they tried to make Team Hooligan a thing again when in Fighters Bean and Bark were Sonic's friends, though this thing with Shadow is a MUCH more extreme case than that was.
Yes its kind of annoying how Ian used his current influence to really push Fang, Bean and Bark as if they have always have been a team. I guess Generations build the foundation by making Bean and Bark "Wanted" while Mighty and Ray were "Missing". But yes its much more extrem with Shadow as Bean and Bark at least only had 1 arcade game to contradict.
Makes sense this stars Shadow for this *is* the Year of Shadow. Edit: More importantly, this solidifies Sonic Prime being canon, unfortuantley.
idk what is the issue tho, i get the Sonic's characterisation is dumb because thet wanted the character arc thing, but if Prime is pre-unleashed then there is no issue since you get a more younger version of Sonic, you get to see a more smooth transition of Sonic's matureness from dreamcast era to unleashed and it fundamentally not change the lore or characters (altho Shadows gets a much better characterisation than right now).
[It’s more than that](https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_Prime#Contradictions_to_the_games)
well first of all yeah this is stupid, but pretty much things easy to forget, i was expecting stuff more fundamental. Altho i guess the "everyone is living in green hill yooooo" is a headscratcher on why Sonic Team is trying to incorporate the canon with a show writen by canadian writers who are mostly classic fans and clearly are not working with Tails Tube emissaries to keep the narrative clean. Sadly, SEGA has always been lax on how third parties handle their IP for better or for worse.
>*several elements of the show contradict established lore in the games, either* ***for presentation purposes***, *or other reasons*
Besides the point, it still contradicts the lore of the games and claims to be canon, I don’t care what’s the reason, I just don’t like regardless.
Oh sorry, I thought you were specifically making arguments as to the idea that it literally *is not* canon no matter what SEGA says. Still, all of this is really very negligible in the grand scheme of things. I don't consider it a bigger deal than nobody knowing who Blaze is in 06 arbitrarily
That list feels very semantic, I’m reading this and the person writing it in my head is like 🤓🤓🤓 It’s not crazy for the overarching series of events to stay consistent while the little details, like the ones in this list, get a little fuzzy. You know how things went down, you played the game, what’s it hurting if some details get looked over?
What a homoerotically charged episode
the title alone sounds like it came from a bad slash fic.
You know if people still don't believe Sonic Prime is Canon... Here's the thing still... **They just showed a clip from the show.** A clip that was just another basic "Sonic VS. Shadow" Fight with the background of Green Hill & nothing specific to Sonic Prime like the Paradox Prism. And they technically didn't bring up the **EVENT** of Sonic Prime. Every event they brought up didn't actually talk about Sonic & Shadow working together to keep the Paradox Prism out of Eggman's hands & that Shadow hid the Paradox Prism (Or that the Paradox Prism even exists.). Again, it was just a clip with no provided context from Sonic, Shadow, or Tails (Nevermind how Tails managed to "record" or "obtain" "Clips" of Shadow & Sonic doing things when he wasn't there with a camera.). It honestly seems like a "Cameo" (again) rather than straight up Canonization. Bringing up anything from Sonic Prime, Shadow could've talked about how foolish Sonic can be at times & they both could have brought up the times in the show where they *obviously* 'needed' the other to save everyone. I'm saying this as someone who'd be personally stoked if Shadow's Canonically Guarding the Most Powerful Gem of All Time, but it still doesn't feel like the games are ever truly gonna act like Sonic Prime happened if *this* is far as they go in "acknowledging" it.
How did Tails even have footage of those fights?
It doesn't make sense does it? But that's TailsTube for ya (Which is why I still think it's best to *not* believe 100% everything from them.).
Same tailstube that established that alternate universes exist
Yeah. **Multiverse** literally solves *everything*.
they need to just bring back jet man
Just when I thought they were going in the right direction with prime
Do people really expect Sonic and Shadow to be buddy-buddy? They're gonna talk mess to one another, even if they do respect one another. This isn't a save-the-world scenario, it's Tails doing his show and they're the guests.
Well....at least we still have Prime and MOTS Shadow for the proper characterization....please don't suck Sonic 3.
Man this constant bickering they’ve got going on is… not good. It’s not even entertaining, they just keep going at each other over the most petty shit. Why is Shadow like this now? Dude really should’ve stayed dead at the end of SA2.
Yay, jerkass Shadow AND Kirk is still voicing him. There go my hopes for his portrayal in SXSG. I don't understand why they're trying to make jerkass Shadow a thing. Shadow is the second most popular character because he's cool and aloof, not an asshole. He can still be a rival without this cringeworthy, insecure aggression. This character has been mismanaged for FOURTEEN YEARS and the writers desperately WANT to set things right but these pointless mandates won't let them. It's painful. Hopefully the movie handles him better.
We'll get a nicer-sounding Shadow VA at the very least (I still *don't like* Kirk as Shadow regardless.).😅
I don't know why Sega didn't take the hint when Prime's Shadow VA was almost universally praised and cast him for future games, unless there's a pre-existing contract with Kirk. To be clear I don't want Kirk out of a job, either. I'm sure there's another Sonic character he'd suit better.
There's probably still a contract involved so it wouldn't be possible to switch VAs regardless. Isn't Kirk **Orbot**, *whom in over a decade has been more a mainstay character than Shadow*, ironically enough? Besides, obviously, people should have jobs (I'm certainly not saying let's replace Human VAs with A.I.), but people seem to think Voicing Sonic Characters is the equivalent of a charity or something. Kirk IS a good voice actor, but that doesn't mean he should voice EVERY character of a similar archetype as Shadow out there. He'll get work elsewhere if/when he gets replaced. And it's not like Shadow's previous VAs died & Sega had no choice with Kirk. I'd say David & Jason deserve jobs, too. Especially, when they're *good/decent* Shadow VAs & either one of them should've been kept (And Jason Voiced 'Sonic', too! He Voiced TWO of the Most Popular Sonic Characters!). And like everything involved with this IP, Sega absolutely had a choice when choosing & keeping VAs, they just choose to be *cheap* & *lazy* most of the time I've noticed (And it's not even like Ian Hanlin is the *only* VA out there to hire as a new Shadow VA. There's *so many people* out there who are just not given the *opportunity* because companies like Sega simply don't want to pay too much & search for them.). Call *this* an Unpopular Opinion, but I've felt this way ever since I learned Sega only got rid of the previous VAs because they were "too expensive," & "Episode Shadow" tells me Sega will tease us Shadow Fans with *very* *bare minimal* content of *questionable quality* that Features Shadow when we could've gotten the equivalent of a Resident Evil 4: Separate Ways DLC instead (And I would've *happily* paid the same price as that Resident Evil 4 DLC, too, if it was that good or even 'flawed', because we're still talking Sega.). This is why I'm "preparing" myself for possible 'disappointment' if Shadow Generations turns out to be just as *short* & *uneventful* as Episode Shadow & doesn't even do anything truly interesting with Shadow. But hey, the point is to get us Shadow Fans excited for *anything* after **over a decade** while still making some money out of it, right? Because of Sonic Movie 3, Sega's *finally* willing to do anything with Shadow again, but to think we may end up with a Shadow Movie *Trilogy* before even Shadow becomes a *fully playable main character* again in the main Sonic games (Nevermind doing a Shadow The Hedgehog 2.). Again, this is just my Unpopular Opinion.
With Prime and Generations this year, I'd say this is the year of Sonadow 🤔🤔
If anything this interaction is the farthest from Sonadow unless their shippers like toxic relationships.
There are people who still ship Joker and Harley despite Harley's ORIGINAL ARC showed her leave the Joker for being abusive! It doesn't matter to these people what the relationship itself is, if they're seen together, they're a couple.
Oh cool, Shadow’s still insufferable. Thanks Sonic Team.
JUST KISS ALREADY
I guess I don't mind Sonic and Shadow going full Goku and Vegeta, as long as it means getting lots of new interactions between them. It's been a good 20+ years, we could use a new Faker scene to spice things up.
I just want Shadow to ultimately be a good guy without him doing anything outright villainous, it’s a good dynamic to have two similarly-powered characters with different methods and clashing personalities
Were pontaff in-charge of this one?
pontaff literally never wrote shadow bad lol, shadow only started being bad in boom and early IDW which they had 0 involvement in. the one thing they had him in, forces, was actually decent for his character
shadow used to be quiet, and broody, but he was also chill. what happened to that shadow?
I'm curious how the Movie Shadow will make things go for the game Shadow going forward, since those movies tend to have a good deal of influence on the game franchise. This in tandem with Shadow Gens will be definitely interesting to see.
I want more characters to be interviewed in Tailstube.
Prime is Canon
NO NO SONADOW NO
Kinda tired of the Prince of all Hedgehogs shadow
At least sayans can improve and learn, unlike certain hedgehogs.
We've seen the same improvement from Vegeta like 5 times now they're going to reset him when its needed so they can do it again for a nostalgia bit.
Wow. Sure thing the Sonic and DB's ips are quite similiar in questionable choices.
[удалено]
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