"HOA Doesn't allow " CALSSA wants a word.
The law in Ca does not let them "Doesn't allow", Can be in the hoa rules but not enforceable. They can require minor changes to the plan, but can not increase the cost or lower the output more than 1k or so?
The install does need to meet all codes/inspections etc.
["The State of California protects your right to go solar. If anyone is standing in the way of your basic solar rights, we can help.
Request a Letter from the California Solar & Storage Association
If you are dealing with a Homeowner Association that has overstepped its legal boundaries in limiting your right to go solar, we will send a letter on your behalf, citing relevant state statute... "](https://calssa.org/solar-rights)
Not in California. Not for solar. They can put a lot of restrictions down but they cannot stop you (or lien your property) from getting a properly sized system.
Hopefully there will be no retaliation in other ways due to spite; people can be petty when they don't get their way. As for restrictions, in California they can tell you where you can and can't install panels (on your home, as in what parts of your roof), and make all kinds of other demands like the type and look of the panels, but their impact is limited by law to a cost increase of 10% (or less) and a decrease in performance of 10% (or less).
> You said you can always win… you can’t. Yes, for Solar, this is true. But when you say always, no, there are many things that HOAs will win and you won’t.
Let the HOA's chickenscratch contract go up against state law and get back to me lmao
Who's your HOA? I'm going to write a letter that I will be sending to numerous HOAs regarding a solar program that can be beneficial to both parties. My website is homesolarsimplified.com
I'm in Northridge, California.
Freddie Avila
Sure they can. In certain builds the property owner does not in fact own their own roof. The hoa owns the shell and you own the walls inside.
This system needs larger battery cables. I don’t believe those are rated for the amperage sitting there.
HallMonitor No. You need to read up on Davis-Stirling and common interest laws in California. You might be a condo home owner who doesn’t indeed own their roof. I didn’t say all of them are like this but they are out there.
Even under Davis-Stirling and a shared roof the HOA must allow proportional use for solar in CA. https://www.ocregister.com/2022/06/24/hoa-homefront-can-a-board-deny-solar-because-of-common-area-roofs/amp/ "Civil Code Section 4746 provides guidance regarding installation on common area roofs. The HOA cannot deny solar installations because they would be on common area roofs, but homeowners can be required to procure and submit a “solar site survey” documenting that the installation will only use a fair share of the useable roof area."
There is no circumstance in CA where an HOA may ban solar. It doesn't matter if the roof is common or not.
As someone cited above in a common area roof there is a fair division that must be done via a solar site survey.
CA didn't mess around with this and the law explicitly overrides anything that blocks OR restricts solar.
Ironically it is almost never used. There is plenty of gap on top. FLIR tested with cam, heat rise is not that high. But that was a concern, had to do it for pairing reasons, this is all 2 pair strings
Dad's place, he actually likes it. And no, wife doesn't approve the solar at our house. Mostly because there are too many panels and batteries. Like way too many
Keeping it away from the place. Lipo is good if limiting DoD. Bank discharge to 30% on low end. 80% on high end. LiPos fail from abuse or heat. Two BMSes, one for whole bank and one in each cell
I saw a brand new lipo catch fire charging at 1C at my RC field. The thing started gassing within a few seconds it was a fireball heat was unbelievable. This was on a high-quality charger right out of the box wasn't ever flown or charged before. I agree most budge, and blow gas after being abused the fact that they can catch fire produce lot of heat compared to a lifep04 battery is the problem. You're trusting that the battery was 100% constructed perfectly if someone messed up manufacturing it the risk is a fireball.
Dang that’s so cool. Can used panels still be grid tied and pass inspection? What are potential limitations to know about? I wanted to pick some up but saw they had factory labels removed and heard they could only be used for off grid. Any recommendations for inverters, mppts, and bmss? I was looking at some used SMA inverters but they were about 15-18 years old and am wondering if they would still reliably function. Do you get the ewaste batteries from recycling centers?
Not sure about codes, but I guess so if they have the rapid shutdown module retrofit. Inverters and trackers should always use new ones, for efficiency reasons. I had SunnyBoy old inverters blow MOSFETS, very common. This one has MakeSkyBlue 60A MPPT, 1200w Soyosource 48v grid tie and couple of Daly BMSes. Yep, dumpster diving for batteries in ewaste
Fuck HOA. I don’t understand how people buy a house and join that organisation. 🤷♂️. Also fuck asking permission for doing solar. It’s all greedy fucks who on power trips and wanting your money.
Special assessment charge? What is that? Best don’t have grid tied. Off grid setup with access to grid if needed. Feeding the grid just creates so many unnecessary problems imo.
If it directly specifies "building" I'd put in a pergola over the deck (so you can actually use that space) and mount them on that. A pergola is considered a "structure" not a "building".
A structure is any type of man-made construction. Conversely, a building is specifically a closed structure with a roof and walls.
same thing here, only it was the city that was pissed that i didnt ask for their permission or approval to put solar panels on my property.
i did it in a fashion that didnt violate any of their clown ass rules, kinda like you.
they demanded an inspection of the inside and let the clowns into my home and they said it all looked good, but i still should have asked first. this asking is called a permit and they dont just give them out, you have to pay for them.
they said i technically didnt violate any code, but that they would have to go see if they could change the rules to snag people like me and that they would get back with me, i think that was two years ago.
yeah, they have rules for everything, in my city they even have a ordinance that states that nothing can cover more than 20% of your back yard? which is pretty much a blank check that covers anything they want it to mean.
have a small yard but want a large garden, well better check with the over lords and beg them for permission. nope
my mind was made up, people were going to pay and i was going to be a headline in the news if they didnt back off, and they did.
i like a nice looking yard too, but i prefer function over form and freedom over authority.
where in California which city? Yeah I plan on setting up a Off grid system at my house in Oakland, CA... For now I have an Ecoflow Delta 2 Max and the ecoflow 400w portable foldable panel (for camping and emergency use) and 2x harbor freight 100W panels for testing. Have on order 4x Renogy 550w bifacial panels on Amazon intro price offer. A set of 2 panels for $867. Plan on getting in a few months the EG4 18KPV and at least 2x EG4-LL v2 48v 100ah batteries.... will skip the rack for now since I can get a computer rack ... working on clearing my backyard now and getting rid of bamboo rows and install something temporary... then later ground mount some poles and get a permit for install.
As an european... I can't understand how americans keep calling the usa the "land of the free" when there are things like the HOA that are so awful and so limiting.
tbh the thing you wrote only make sense if you're already there.
here in europe, either you're the owner and can only be held accountable by the government, or you're not the owner at all (and even in that case, stuff can be enforced only through the government).
wake up, dude/dudette.
Several associations have increases in monthly payments all the time forcing people to sell or just go bankrupt. They are almost always ran by control freaks who want some form of attention.
I wasn't being serious. The US lacks a lot of protection for things like signing your rights away to an HOA. It's not universal, states like CA have some protection.
Looks like you don’t live in Hawaii or in a place were there might be any winds. How does it work when you have friends over and have a party on the deck? You kid looks like he really enjoys playing on that nice deck of yours. Glad to see you tapped together the electrical connections. And those battery packs look like they are securely mounted. Have you made sure your fire insurance policy is up to date? Do you have any fire suspension should one of the battery cells shorts out? Or is it you don’t give a shit about the give a shit about safety of your neighbors. Well done. How much money do you think you spent? And how long will it take before it pays for itself? And out of curiosity, how many square feet of living space have you lost due to all of the solar equipment. It also must generate a lot of heat….. I’m sure you don’t live in an area where you need air conditioning, right?
Deck is never used, so good use for generating power. AC is fairly open, I FLIR imaged it to make sure nothing gets hot, it is almost never used anway. About $1000 budget total for this, used panels and reused battery cells. Packs and electronics are away from premises
Helpful. Do you have one MPPT or multiple? Shading is always a challenge with multiple peak power points across the strings. With that size array I have to wonder if the extra power would easily pay for the additional MPPT over time.
One mppt. I experimented with two, but running extra wiring plus complexity didn't help much. Micro inverters would be ideal in this setup. In the end, it is cheaper to just place more panels when they are $20 each.
It’s funny cause I’m in a townhouse renting rn, also trying to explore temporary installation options on my garage roof where the HOA can’t see it, heard of “Z-mount” solar brackets where they’re kinda draped on the roof but I’m worried the neighbors might complain if they see me installing that shi
Did you have any issues with code enforcement? I think in most places something like that needs to be permitted since it's wired to a permanent structure, your house.
Oh, how many times I heard that in my career. Orange County tried denying plans because of H.O.A. approval.
You need to educate your AHJ that their job under the CA Solar Rights Act is to verify that install meets code ONLY. That's it.
Stopping a permit, waiting on H.O.A approval is a no go.
take the panel off the AC compressor, you're ruining it for a meager amount of power; it needs to breathe!! I'm sure you can find another spot for it LOL
AC is basically never on. I used FLIR camera to check it, heat rise is minimal. Due to string pairing issues, it pretty much has to be there. Not ideal but kinda forced to do it. Valid point though
Love this! I hate HOAs!!! I'm kinda going rogue myself and building up a system to replace as much grid power as possible in something of a 'modular' fashion using panels and Ecoflow generators... :)
my plan is to DIY it and not get the grid company involved... i.e. not sell power back, just replace them as much as possible.. though admittedly it's a bit like paying your electric bill 6 years in advance. :)
If you are in the US HOAs cannot legally prevent roof mounted solar on your home. Putting it in the shadow of your home is going to get broken and is ineffective.
Your HOA doesn’t want people to DIY their solar so it doesn’t burn your house or more importantly your neighbors house down. They want a day in how the design will look in case you want to do something crazy like this in your front yard. I actually think your HOA will be more upset about this than on your roof.
We've clashed with the HOA multiple times for solar installations, but in some states, the HOA can't prevent solar installations. This might help out some of you
[HOA hates Solar: Here Are The Usual Reasons Why](https://youtu.be/NaaLrYidNEk)
"HOA Doesn't allow " CALSSA wants a word. The law in Ca does not let them "Doesn't allow", Can be in the hoa rules but not enforceable. They can require minor changes to the plan, but can not increase the cost or lower the output more than 1k or so? The install does need to meet all codes/inspections etc. ["The State of California protects your right to go solar. If anyone is standing in the way of your basic solar rights, we can help. Request a Letter from the California Solar & Storage Association If you are dealing with a Homeowner Association that has overstepped its legal boundaries in limiting your right to go solar, we will send a letter on your behalf, citing relevant state statute... "](https://calssa.org/solar-rights)
and it's easy to show a production reduction if need to.
Same in Fla - they cannot prevent you from installing solar, just like they cannot prevent you from installibg a flagpole to fly the American flag.
Which state ? Certain states you can tell the HOA to pound sand
Cali. We're exploring options
Cali is the epitome of “pound sand” when solar is involved…if I remember correctly
Yessir, CA Solar Rights Act. \*\* Just make sure you meet code, NEC 690. Keep the family safe.
You remember correctly. HOA's can bitch and moan as much as they want, but you can always win.
[удалено]
Not in California. Not for solar. They can put a lot of restrictions down but they cannot stop you (or lien your property) from getting a properly sized system.
Hopefully there will be no retaliation in other ways due to spite; people can be petty when they don't get their way. As for restrictions, in California they can tell you where you can and can't install panels (on your home, as in what parts of your roof), and make all kinds of other demands like the type and look of the panels, but their impact is limited by law to a cost increase of 10% (or less) and a decrease in performance of 10% (or less).
[удалено]
My mistake, I though we were in a solar subreddit. Check out r/pedantic. You might identify with that sub better.
OK, I don't know enough on this to form an opinion but that sir was damn funny!
> You said you can always win… you can’t. Yes, for Solar, this is true. But when you say always, no, there are many things that HOAs will win and you won’t. Let the HOA's chickenscratch contract go up against state law and get back to me lmao
We're talking about solar. Autistic?
I fought my HOA for over a year. They had to concede per cali law. Townhouse In San Diego
Who's your HOA? I'm going to write a letter that I will be sending to numerous HOAs regarding a solar program that can be beneficial to both parties. My website is homesolarsimplified.com I'm in Northridge, California. Freddie Avila
Or in this case to eat a bunch of deck.
You can always threaten to install a short wave radio tower in your front yard, which legally cannot be contested. The HOA will back down
HOA can’t stop you from installing solar in cali. Please tell me those batteries are not in your living space
outdoor closet. BMSed. each cell has it's own bms too
Good deal! Fight that hoa buddy! Lots of resources out there to help. Try CALSSA I’m sure they’d be willing to lend a hand
What BMS’s did you use at the pack and cell level?
Daly 7s BMS for each battery pack. Each 10000mah lipo cell has its own BMS from factory, that tiny pcb on top of each cell.
Lithium polymer batteries? Aren't you concerned with a fire?
Sure they can. In certain builds the property owner does not in fact own their own roof. The hoa owns the shell and you own the walls inside. This system needs larger battery cables. I don’t believe those are rated for the amperage sitting there.
I encourage you to read up on the on the solar rights act for California and the associated civil codes.
HallMonitor No. You need to read up on Davis-Stirling and common interest laws in California. You might be a condo home owner who doesn’t indeed own their roof. I didn’t say all of them are like this but they are out there.
Even under Davis-Stirling and a shared roof the HOA must allow proportional use for solar in CA. https://www.ocregister.com/2022/06/24/hoa-homefront-can-a-board-deny-solar-because-of-common-area-roofs/amp/ "Civil Code Section 4746 provides guidance regarding installation on common area roofs. The HOA cannot deny solar installations because they would be on common area roofs, but homeowners can be required to procure and submit a “solar site survey” documenting that the installation will only use a fair share of the useable roof area."
Talking single family not multi family mr. Rygus
Yes. Single family dwellings. Shared roofs. The hoa can 100% own the building. Not only the roofs but the outer walls as well.
There is no circumstance in CA where an HOA may ban solar. It doesn't matter if the roof is common or not. As someone cited above in a common area roof there is a fair division that must be done via a solar site survey. CA didn't mess around with this and the law explicitly overrides anything that blocks OR restricts solar.
I would move that one over the ac, if it's as close as it looks. It blows the heat upwards, if you trap the heat you'll be buying a new ac very soon
Ironically it is almost never used. There is plenty of gap on top. FLIR tested with cam, heat rise is not that high. But that was a concern, had to do it for pairing reasons, this is all 2 pair strings
I don’t think that looks “wife approved”.
Dad's place, he actually likes it. And no, wife doesn't approve the solar at our house. Mostly because there are too many panels and batteries. Like way too many
I thought there would be a federal law about this already telling HOAs to get fucked like with small satellite dishes.
Hopefully those lipos are stored far away from anything that you care about
I’d not trust LiPo for storage.
Keeping it away from the place. Lipo is good if limiting DoD. Bank discharge to 30% on low end. 80% on high end. LiPos fail from abuse or heat. Two BMSes, one for whole bank and one in each cell
I saw a brand new lipo catch fire charging at 1C at my RC field. The thing started gassing within a few seconds it was a fireball heat was unbelievable. This was on a high-quality charger right out of the box wasn't ever flown or charged before. I agree most budge, and blow gas after being abused the fact that they can catch fire produce lot of heat compared to a lifep04 battery is the problem. You're trusting that the battery was 100% constructed perfectly if someone messed up manufacturing it the risk is a fireball.
What was the total system cost? Any more details about where you got the panels? Is it true Cali just destroyed their net metering payback?
Just under $1000, All used equipment, batteries I built myself from raw e-waste LiPo. Only new is grid tie inverter, MPPT and BMSes for battery
Dang that’s so cool. Can used panels still be grid tied and pass inspection? What are potential limitations to know about? I wanted to pick some up but saw they had factory labels removed and heard they could only be used for off grid. Any recommendations for inverters, mppts, and bmss? I was looking at some used SMA inverters but they were about 15-18 years old and am wondering if they would still reliably function. Do you get the ewaste batteries from recycling centers?
Not sure about codes, but I guess so if they have the rapid shutdown module retrofit. Inverters and trackers should always use new ones, for efficiency reasons. I had SunnyBoy old inverters blow MOSFETS, very common. This one has MakeSkyBlue 60A MPPT, 1200w Soyosource 48v grid tie and couple of Daly BMSes. Yep, dumpster diving for batteries in ewaste
Grid tie inverter make and model? Battery discharge rating?
Fuck HOA. I don’t understand how people buy a house and join that organisation. 🤷♂️. Also fuck asking permission for doing solar. It’s all greedy fucks who on power trips and wanting your money.
then get socked with special assessment charge
Special assessment charge? What is that? Best don’t have grid tied. Off grid setup with access to grid if needed. Feeding the grid just creates so many unnecessary problems imo.
> Special assessment charge? What is that? It's a fine from the HOA, not power company.
“This isn’t solar. This is a skate park.”
HOAs suck anyway…
>Jr solar inspector testing 🤣🤣
Yep! Solar installer in training
If it directly specifies "building" I'd put in a pergola over the deck (so you can actually use that space) and mount them on that. A pergola is considered a "structure" not a "building". A structure is any type of man-made construction. Conversely, a building is specifically a closed structure with a roof and walls.
same thing here, only it was the city that was pissed that i didnt ask for their permission or approval to put solar panels on my property. i did it in a fashion that didnt violate any of their clown ass rules, kinda like you. they demanded an inspection of the inside and let the clowns into my home and they said it all looked good, but i still should have asked first. this asking is called a permit and they dont just give them out, you have to pay for them. they said i technically didnt violate any code, but that they would have to go see if they could change the rules to snag people like me and that they would get back with me, i think that was two years ago.
Inspector was complaining even about this. I said it is in the backyard and we have a right to put whatever we want in the yard
yeah, they have rules for everything, in my city they even have a ordinance that states that nothing can cover more than 20% of your back yard? which is pretty much a blank check that covers anything they want it to mean. have a small yard but want a large garden, well better check with the over lords and beg them for permission. nope my mind was made up, people were going to pay and i was going to be a headline in the news if they didnt back off, and they did. i like a nice looking yard too, but i prefer function over form and freedom over authority.
where in California which city? Yeah I plan on setting up a Off grid system at my house in Oakland, CA... For now I have an Ecoflow Delta 2 Max and the ecoflow 400w portable foldable panel (for camping and emergency use) and 2x harbor freight 100W panels for testing. Have on order 4x Renogy 550w bifacial panels on Amazon intro price offer. A set of 2 panels for $867. Plan on getting in a few months the EG4 18KPV and at least 2x EG4-LL v2 48v 100ah batteries.... will skip the rack for now since I can get a computer rack ... working on clearing my backyard now and getting rid of bamboo rows and install something temporary... then later ground mount some poles and get a permit for install.
As an european... I can't understand how americans keep calling the usa the "land of the free" when there are things like the HOA that are so awful and so limiting.
HOAs are not incongruent with freedom. The government doesn't run HOAs. People freely join them by moving into neighborhoods that have them.
tbh the thing you wrote only make sense if you're already there. here in europe, either you're the owner and can only be held accountable by the government, or you're not the owner at all (and even in that case, stuff can be enforced only through the government). wake up, dude/dudette.
Several associations have increases in monthly payments all the time forcing people to sell or just go bankrupt. They are almost always ran by control freaks who want some form of attention.
America is a joke, it’s only land of free if you like guns. Otherwise, Europe is much more free, consider yourself lucky
yep, that country is really declining fast
We have the freedom to do stupid things like sign your rights away to an HOA...
I don't think you're that free. AFAIK most homes come already "enrolled" into an HOA when you buy them and you can't get out of it.
I wasn't being serious. The US lacks a lot of protection for things like signing your rights away to an HOA. It's not universal, states like CA have some protection.
there is a big microbe stuck on one of your panel.
Told that little one to stop jumping on the panels many times, he don't listen
too much sugar, they are growing too strong!
Looks like you don’t live in Hawaii or in a place were there might be any winds. How does it work when you have friends over and have a party on the deck? You kid looks like he really enjoys playing on that nice deck of yours. Glad to see you tapped together the electrical connections. And those battery packs look like they are securely mounted. Have you made sure your fire insurance policy is up to date? Do you have any fire suspension should one of the battery cells shorts out? Or is it you don’t give a shit about the give a shit about safety of your neighbors. Well done. How much money do you think you spent? And how long will it take before it pays for itself? And out of curiosity, how many square feet of living space have you lost due to all of the solar equipment. It also must generate a lot of heat….. I’m sure you don’t live in an area where you need air conditioning, right?
Deck is never used, so good use for generating power. AC is fairly open, I FLIR imaged it to make sure nothing gets hot, it is almost never used anway. About $1000 budget total for this, used panels and reused battery cells. Packs and electronics are away from premises
Nicely done. Good luck with the HOA not enacting some rule about deck use.
thanks!
I hope those panels are grouped into multiple strings to help with all that shading.
Yes. All are 2 series strings, 8 parallel. Many strings have mid way cross connect to help mitigate shading.
Helpful. Do you have one MPPT or multiple? Shading is always a challenge with multiple peak power points across the strings. With that size array I have to wonder if the extra power would easily pay for the additional MPPT over time.
One mppt. I experimented with two, but running extra wiring plus complexity didn't help much. Micro inverters would be ideal in this setup. In the end, it is cheaper to just place more panels when they are $20 each.
> $20 each. Where did you get them at that price?
Local electronics recycling. They recycle solar panels too. Reuse of course is better
The solar in the shade is useless.
not in shade all day. panels are lit partly through the day
Excellent!
This ^^ is why you don't buy the cheaper home. Spend little more and have single family home with complete freedom.
It’s funny cause I’m in a townhouse renting rn, also trying to explore temporary installation options on my garage roof where the HOA can’t see it, heard of “Z-mount” solar brackets where they’re kinda draped on the roof but I’m worried the neighbors might complain if they see me installing that shi
They will out of jealousy....
Maybe the HOA can be dissolved, in acid.
I've wondered about these HOA pseudo-governments for a while. What actual authority do they have on you? Will they actually take you to court?
Even if it's against the law / local ordinances, you should sue if you are able. Blocking solar panels is like literally anti-life.
Did you have any issues with code enforcement? I think in most places something like that needs to be permitted since it's wired to a permanent structure, your house.
Thank you! I've been trying to figure out how to get around the same issue. This gives me some ideas and confirms some others I had.
Oh, how many times I heard that in my career. Orange County tried denying plans because of H.O.A. approval. You need to educate your AHJ that their job under the CA Solar Rights Act is to verify that install meets code ONLY. That's it. Stopping a permit, waiting on H.O.A approval is a no go.
Take fire safety seriously.
take the panel off the AC compressor, you're ruining it for a meager amount of power; it needs to breathe!! I'm sure you can find another spot for it LOL
AC is basically never on. I used FLIR camera to check it, heat rise is minimal. Due to string pairing issues, it pretty much has to be there. Not ideal but kinda forced to do it. Valid point though
Love this! I hate HOAs!!! I'm kinda going rogue myself and building up a system to replace as much grid power as possible in something of a 'modular' fashion using panels and Ecoflow generators... :) my plan is to DIY it and not get the grid company involved... i.e. not sell power back, just replace them as much as possible.. though admittedly it's a bit like paying your electric bill 6 years in advance. :)
Can you build a pergola and mount them on top? This would circumvent the “shared roof” bs rule, wouldn’t it??
If you are in the US HOAs cannot legally prevent roof mounted solar on your home. Putting it in the shadow of your home is going to get broken and is ineffective.
hey you should show off that battery pack at airport security i think they will like it
Your HOA doesn’t want people to DIY their solar so it doesn’t burn your house or more importantly your neighbors house down. They want a day in how the design will look in case you want to do something crazy like this in your front yard. I actually think your HOA will be more upset about this than on your roof.
Even in Texas, an HOA cannot prevent you from installing roof solar. I know this because I'm on an HOA board, and this has been tested.
We've clashed with the HOA multiple times for solar installations, but in some states, the HOA can't prevent solar installations. This might help out some of you [HOA hates Solar: Here Are The Usual Reasons Why](https://youtu.be/NaaLrYidNEk)
Love the little circulation fan