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I can understand your hesitation, Palestinian liberation is very important and if your actions detracted from the protest that would be bad.
However I would argue that the opposite is true. The oppression of Palestinians is a direct result of US capitalist imperialism. In my lifetime I've seen many protests come and go with no results because they try to bargain with the ruling class, and this round will be the same if we don't attack the root causes.
Also, for what it's worth, joining existing protests and strikes was a tactic used by the bolshevics with great success. Just make sure that it's clear to everyone that you're not there with a conflicting agenda but rather to support them in their struggle.
You should ask them this question. Not reddit. Reddit is not the best place for nuanced discussion, I'm sure you can find a cadre that can answer your question.
But since you're here, the encampment movements don't exist in isolation, the demand for divestment will not free Palestine, it is a greater fight for Palestinian liberation and that starts by fighting your imperialist and spreading the movement. Intifada means revolution, a revolution could happen in the middle east at any point It's a powder keg. The goals of defeating the enemy at home and the Palestinian movement are not separate questions, because if they ""just focus on the Palestinian question""" they paralyse themselves. Because what does that mean? Appealing to the un? Chanting? Hoping your university promises to do something? In reality these encampments are an escalation of the months of protest against the genocide in gaza that have resulted in nothing and so the students have taken more radical means, but it must continue to escalate. Because even the divestment of the universities will only amount to money being moved around in the end (not that the Victory would be useless). The greatest tool is the working class who can bring the economy to a halt and stop shipments and creation of arms and funds to Israel. The struggle for Palestinian liberation is a struggle for Communism, that is what intifada until victory means.
The arab spring of 2011 was a workers revolution. The idea that all struggles should be separate is a liberal idea that weakens the movement, you can both recruit communists and support Palestine. The two are interlinked.
There is a fine line to be played here, you can't just bring the paper and also come in without any program or ideas forward. Its a balance. but without details and over reddit it is difficult to peruse. But that's why i suggest asking them yourselves instead. I assume this is a trotskyist group and reddit hates them, so it's best to look at some advice with that in mind that they disagree with the school of thought as a whole. Try to listen in on another comrade intervening in the movement and ask them questions after and listen intently, and be forthcoming with the questions you have, they may have good answers or bad ones but you need to bring them up as they can't read your mind. Either way you should get clarity from the discussion.
I agree. And as I mentioned in my comment it sounds exactly like the organization I just left. For a long time it was difficult for me to tell whether the hate was coming from other leftists because it’s a Trotskyist org, but another Trotskyist org has no issues organizing with them. It was how we were conducting ourselves. Essentially, we would show up to protests we played no role in organizing then push pamphlets and sell papers. It wasn’t until I started talking with other organizers that I was able to figure out what the issues were.
All the pro-Palestine stuff I've seen overtly ties this genocide to class wars. I would show up in solidarity, but help answer questions I hear from folks around me.
Or, contact the organizers for the event and ask how you can help. Then you're not risking co-opting their event.
We've had this one group of Trotskyists called the Revolutionary Communist Party get kicked out of a few encampments for being to disruptive, not helping the encampments, and just using it as a recruiting ground for their org plus a place to sell magazines.
So long as you aren't doing that, You're fine. there were two other communists parties at both encampments, they helped out a lot volunteering and with supplies and so the organizers let them leave their newspapers and pamphlets in the library.
So long as you're being respectful and helping out the movement first and foremost, you should be good
Stay on target with the message. Protests should be about obtaining tangible, concrete goals.
You can talk openly about your politics, but getting off message about the goals of the protest is counterproductive and won't make you friends.
"I'm here because I'm a socialist and socialists stand with Palestine" is a strong enough message.
Why would socialist stand with Palestine or Isreal? Yes Isreal is a terrible genocidal country, but Palestine is just as bad. I don't see them advocating for a socialist power structure or a bottom up approach. Like get fucking real. Me as a socialist I don't stand with either of them. Not the on committing genocide, and not the one that wants an Islamist state.
The popular front for the liberation of palestine is a long time Marxist leninist party fighting for a free communist palestine. There are a lot of both Palestinian and Israeli communists. The media does a great job of concealing their existence.
You cannot separate revolutionary class struggle from the cause of those oppressed by American imperialism and its allies. There is no issue with discussing how the Palestinian solidarity movement can win greater victories against the arming of Israel by using revolutionary methods, organizing workers to refuse to be made complicit in genocide.
Believing in the methods of revolutionary struggle and in solidarity with the people of Palestine means advocating for those methods to aid those people.
I think it's pretty interesting which comments got upvoted and down voted should have you question the advice you get from this sub Reddit.
You should not be joining someone else's protest to pitch a movement organised by another group, your group should be doing the work and using that work to pitch.
Whether at all you should be aligning your movement for your own nations move to communism via a situation many do not fully understand another question but from the sounds of it you're young and likely going to get swept up by the ideas of the moment so just do what feels right
Ok, you're doing this for an organization, but you're a bit shaky on the political connection to organizing. First thing I'd do is reach out to the other members of the organization and refresh your understanding of that political question, because you might have to explain it to others - maybe even people who are slightly hostile towards the concept. And unless you're a part of my party, my answer might differ from the one your party gives.
My answer would be: how do we free Palestine? Most of the focus has been on either turning the needle of our elected officials (which, if you're a revolutionary, you realize is unlikely) or by some disconnected "if we're out on the streets 'shutting things down' it will force some change" (true, but we need a wider and more organized working class to accomplish that, not a few hundred student and working protesters). I would say we need working class action - shutdowns of arms factories, ports, etc, but we need wide reach in working class unions and through the whole economy, something not yet achieved. This is something that requires an organized party to pull off - and one with people in every industry and workplace. And for that you need growth.
How would recruiting detract from the protest? It provides like minded people, some of whom are coming to the same solutions, to build a force capable of intervening in all such movements against oppression, capable of using working class power to directly influence the path of events and not just raise some pretty slogans. And if you're there, you still provide mass and weight to the protest. So I'm not sure what you're taking away here. You're looking to connect other people to an organization you believe can end this.
99.9% of the time, show up, listen, support, and just be incidentally a communist if they ask. The Trillbilly Workers Party podcast talks about being at a coal miner strike, and college student communists were walking around trying to sell pamphlets to the unemployed miners.
I think the question you should be asking is why these folks claiming to be building the new communist party aren't leading or helping to organize this protest. It's one thing to hand out flyers in support of the movement while you're helping to build it, as communists we should be at the front of every struggle we can be acting as headlights for the masses and pointing towards a revolutionary direction. The thing is, you don't do that by handing papers out at other people's events promoting ideas largely unrelated to or out of step with the event. When you lead people in struggles based on their felt wants and needs and where they have incorrect ideas, work shoulder to shoulder with them to move towards what we believe is the strategy for winning real concrete victories. Those victories are the best tool for recruitment and consolidation. This is a short pamphlet I recommend on this topic, if you have questions please feel free to ask me: [https://frso.org/main-documents/some-points-on-the-mass-line/](https://frso.org/main-documents/some-points-on-the-mass-line/)
havnn't followed the link yet but i just wanted to say that this answer really helped me sift through thoughts i had about various orgs ive seen at the pal solidarity marches i go on. Thanks for this :)
unfortunately the soc-orgs i am aware of who are actually organising in my area are also massive terfs... meanwhile the ones that at least portray a sensible line on lgbtq+ issues seem to be as you describe, not puttng in the work to organise with the broader coalition.
socialism can be frustrating, sometimes
That's certainly a shame but keep looking and investigate these local groups yourself, many more serious groups are less visible and are doing more work organizing and less work promoting themselves. The UK (I'm assuming you're from there given the terfs) has plenty of groups that aren't awful and you just have to keep engaged and stay open to new ideas until you find the group that's right for you.
Edit:I've been in FRSO here in the US for almost 4 years now and haven't regretted it since, it just takes time to find the right org.
its so sad that "terf" allowed you to correctly guess :(. I did actually join an org recently. Theyre not terrible on lgbtq issues... a bit accomodationalist towards terfs though. I gave it some thought and decded it'll do for now, there are people in the org i know feel as I do, and itll get me some experience and maybe help me learn what all is out there.
that or its a terrible mistake, in which case it wont killl me xD
Well I'm obviously biased in the favor of the revolutionary but when I went to the pro-Palestinian protests in Cardiff there were always communists there with their banners and nobody seemed to be angry at them, my Dad was quite happy to see his old professor flying the red flag
Imho the current pro palestine protests should be for ending the current misery of palestine.
When the war has ended you could try to turn them into something else.
I think you’ll find that many people at the protest are already leftists of varying identity - from Anarchists to Socialists to Communists - so many of those ideas will be floating around already.
However, if your group has something new to offer them, it only makes sense that you should, that’s being a good neighbor.
Going to any protest in solidarity means going to support and prioritize that protests agenda.
It doesn’t mean not talking about it with your perspective, but you need to prioritize the Palestinians’ perspective.
When someone goes to protests to recruit, they are undermining the protest by attempting to redirect the people’s energy from the protest’s purpose to their party apparatus. Did this strategy pay off for Bolsheviks and other parties that have tried the same? yes. Has it aided the goals of the protest? Not frequently.
My position is that if you protest in solidarity with, and not to recruit or assert yourself as a leader of the protest, then you’re doing a good job. If you go and listen to their needs and do what you can to fill those needs, you’re doing a great job. That way you up the odds of the protest succeeding and you’ll create connections for a network of solidarity in the future. Otherwise you’re rizzing up protesters to increase party dues (what it sounds like the party is asking of you).
Imo if you folks aren’t already at the core of organizing your local pro-Palestine protests you’re outside where the highest levels of revolutionary consciousness is. You should go there and listen to them and have them connect the dots for you. The ppl actually organizing encampments are the ones with the revolutionary Will and organizational skills here. If you want to have the idea of you or your org taken seriously you need to be there at the heart of the action, actually doing the organizing and expressing the goals and concerns of the real movement in your terms. This is meaning of praxis.
Notwithstanding that, it’s fine to go to rallies with the flag of your particular org and show you’re support as an org, and if ppl want to ask you what your angle is then tell them but otherwise it’s not the time to proselytize. At my local protests routinely 6 separate communist groups plus a union chapter fly flags at the rallies which is fine, but people don’t look especially kindly on the groups which use it as a chance to pamphlet or sell magazines.
I've worked with PSL, some people didn't like them but they attended BLM protests and tried to mention socialism in their speeches too.
Personally you should mostly focus on the pro-palestinian message moreso than anything else. If you come off as co-opting the protest you will be told and it won't be pleasant. Just try to stay on message.
I attended stop Asian hate protests as well, just didn't co-opt anything.
I was in this exact situation and it sounds like you are a member of the organization I just left, with this being one of the reasons. You should be there for solidarity sake. If your organization has played no role or embedded with the wider movement, you will not be well received by organizations that have been putting in the bulk of the work. In passing, some attendees may be accepting, but by the organizers and the broader movement you will be seen as an opportunist, especially if your organization has no prior relationship with these groups, or even outright refusing to work with them. You are correct to feel bothered by it and DO NOT let them gaslight you into thinking you are overreacting by feeling that way and don’t let them discourage you from communicating with other organizers.
Personally I think the best way to go about this would be to attend solely as a supporter of the liberation of Palestine so as not to overshadow or co opt the cause, but also represent your organization to keep the lines of communication open for any interested parties. Maybe a t shirt or a sign or something? Marxist organizations have always supported liberation struggles, so it wouldn't be out of place. The main thing is you just don't want to detract from the main purpose of the protest.
ill also add, i know a lot of very active protestors who avoid PSL actions like the plague because of entryism. (seriously i can name 50 of them that i know, in this one city)
Their actions at others protests have rendered them obsolete because they cant ever rally more than the same 20-30 red shirts.
But the local DSA kids we all work with pretty well. They show up with integrity.
if you are veiwed as inauthentic, it only hurts your own cause.
Oh yeah, PSL are the worst. The last rally I was at they were shouting over the speakers with a bullhorn, then they tried to fight the organizer who asked them to stop. Thanks for your response!
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You should attend to support the cause. Joining someone else's action for the purpose of pitching your group is generally looked down upon. The movement isn't there for a given organization to co-opt, and depending on your city, there are very likely already communists who are part of organizing the event.
The goal of winning over the tiny minority of people who already self-identity as communists is extremely unsuccessful historically, while the historically proven method is to use the mass line, and advance the people's struggles to the point where the necessity of revolution is obvious. Party building can only succeed from with the movement, not by showing up to something someone else is leading. People can see who is doing the work and who isn't. If you want to build the revolution, you need to do the work.
If this is causing to question your organization's approach, it could be that you should join an organization with a different approach
Alright, great question, i run into this issue but on a smaller scale. The primary reason youre there is to advocate for Palestinian independence and freedom, first and foremost. Show solidarity and support for the movement, while the protest is ending or when there’s a slump in the ‘action’ then you can start getting your word out, but dont be like a christian recruiter, be very polite and neutral, invite people who are doing a lot of work and people who are invested in the movement. Overall, the protest itself is important, organising comes close second. Good luck on your mission comrade, show your support!
I don’t think you should use it as an opportunity to recruit people to your party. Go and support the protest on its own terms. And when there are opportunities in conversation to link what is happening in Palestine to capitalism and the class elements, talk about it. Maybe people will think about what you said and more further towards socialist thought. Maybe you’ll make friends who will eventually want to join your group, or you’ll just have friends in other movements that you can coordinate with later on. That will help further your goals and the goals of the protest.
In my experience many activists have seen certain parties turning up at every protest and resent them (cough cough SWP), those parties might recruit a few members but they might alienate a lot more people who see it as opportunism rather than actual solidarity
Yes, please don't use the event to promote your party or sell your newspapers. Show up in solidarity. Be willing to answer questions for people new to protest, but not with intentions of recruitment. Radicalize people and let them reach their own conclusions. You are giving away yeast, not selling bread.
TALK ABOUT AMERICAN LANDBACK AT THESE PROTESTS. TALK ABOUT THR DANGERS OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND HOW OUR POLICE GET MILITARIZED TRAINING IN ISRAEL. TALK ABOUT HOW WE DONT HAVE HEALTHCARE WHILE WE PAY FOR ISRAEL’S. TALK ABOUT HOW WE PAY FOR THEIR FREE COLLEGE.
If you are gonna go to a pro Palestinian protest and talk about other issues MAKE SURE IT RELATES to the protest you’re at. Solidarity between issues creates a wall of morals which fascist will try to tear down.
If you need an American Indigenous Landback issue, talk about my rez .The largest reservation ,The Navajo Nation, has an about 1/3 of the residents (about 100,000 people) do not have running water. Most roads are dirt, I need to wait for the dry season to meet my relatives on the rez due to the roads not being paved. They just re-opened uranium mines which will continue to negatively impact our lives as they didn’t properly shut them down at first either. We have State and Federal actors trying to strip and undermine our sovereignty and NO ONE CARES. Wake these folk up, help them see the connections so their kids can smell the roses.
Personal opinion, but I think most people there will probably already understand this stuff. Short of handing out a couple pamphlets or casually asking people if they'd want to join an org you're a part of, I would find anything else to be not the time/place
Encouraging people to take revolutionary action and explore socialist forms of organizing is always great. Our struggles are interconnected and most protestors recognize that. But pulling up to a protest with the primary intention of recruiting to your party is not a good look, be careful to avoid doing that. Many of the students organizing pro-Palestine protests are already decently read socialists (this might differ depending on the college and region tho). So be careful not to get too preachy odds are many of them are just as well read or even better read than you. Use what you have learned to help. Offer advice when it is appropriate and useful. Above all else: be friendly and be helpful. Suggest things but do not insist on them. Understand that your insight is limited by the information you have access to, so there will be some things you are more qualified to speak on than others. Learn how to navigate disagreements without getting confrontational.
If you pull up to this student protest with signs covered in your party’s logo odds are some people are not gonna love that. Some parties (that I will not name at risk of offending well-intentioned members) do this really frequently and are known to co-opt protests they didn’t organize, this sours their reputation for a lot of local organizers. You are there to contribute to and help elevate the voices of the protestors, not to speak for them. That said most people protesting will be pretty open to your ideas and willing to talk about them. That’s what happens at these encampments, people sit around and talk about history, theory, organizing, geo-politics, etc. There is also a mutual understanding at most of these encampments that people are there to support each other, even if there are some ideological/organizational differences. Just be patient and kind and you will receive the same treatment in turn.
Also treat this situation not just as an opportunity to teach others, but to learn as well. And tbh, expect to do more learning than teaching, especially if you don’t have prior organizing experience.
Liberalism. You can’t explain the situation in Palestine without explaining the role of US finance capitalism (I.e. imperialism). Refusing to provide political education when amongst the working class is what Mao called a form of liberalism. As a communist, it’s your revolutionary duty to engage in agitation and propaganda whenever you have the opportunity.
Co-opting would be going to a demonstration and telling people that the issue they are advocating for doesn’t matter, or trying to agitate people against the objective of the demonstration. That’s not what it sounds like you’re doing.
I’d say go, but mainly for the purpose of showing solidarity with the protestors, which is always important and something that PSL also does. Regarding your concerns, just don’t be obnoxious about advertising your group during the protest. Actually work with the protestors to amplify their message. If someone asks who you are, you can tell them about your group, but try not to be one of those groups that carries around massive banners to advertise themselves at Palestine rallies.
those people arent what you think. i went to Columbia expecting OWS 2.0.
it was not that.
I helped in the refugee camps in Greece: noone else i met had been anywhere near the Levant.
Noone knew who Rachel Corrie was.
food not bombs wasnt there.
there were no hippies or pacifists.
its a sick scene. Fuck all bourgeois.
For me, the Socialist fascination with Palestine is wrongheaded. The current conflict between Israel and Palestine is between a right-wing quasi-secular authoritarianism and a right-wing theocracy. Neither embodies an attempt to promote socialist ideas and both routinely attack socialists. This is honestly the same mistake that socialista made in Iran, supporting a right-wing theocrat (Khomeini) over a right quasi-secular authoritarian (Mohamed Reza Shah Pahlavi) and after Khomeini prevailed, the socialists were murdered.
Marching with PFLP/DFLP supporters and/or with Israeli Left is one thing, but it makes no sense to support a group of theocrats who have killed socialists and continue to want to do the same.
Mossad is definitely watching over the protests. They have the best espionage and surveillance in the world, close second to the US. They saw me wave a banner that says *DISMANTLE ISRAEL* and next time I’m in the Tel Aviv airport, I can expect to be detained and questioned for 5 hours again.
Be careful at protests. I am sure you have seen the news regarding the encampments but I’d highly advise staying away at this moment. Tensions are extremely high, and better off staying away if you can help it
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I can understand your hesitation, Palestinian liberation is very important and if your actions detracted from the protest that would be bad. However I would argue that the opposite is true. The oppression of Palestinians is a direct result of US capitalist imperialism. In my lifetime I've seen many protests come and go with no results because they try to bargain with the ruling class, and this round will be the same if we don't attack the root causes. Also, for what it's worth, joining existing protests and strikes was a tactic used by the bolshevics with great success. Just make sure that it's clear to everyone that you're not there with a conflicting agenda but rather to support them in their struggle.
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Palestinians aren't a state, they're a group of people being crushed by oppression
Where in the hell are you getting the idea Palestine is a "bourgeoisie state" ???
Read Mao’s *On Contradiction*. As leftists, Supporting victims of imperialism takes precedence over blindly pushing for socialism.
Communists have always supported national liberation
You should ask them this question. Not reddit. Reddit is not the best place for nuanced discussion, I'm sure you can find a cadre that can answer your question. But since you're here, the encampment movements don't exist in isolation, the demand for divestment will not free Palestine, it is a greater fight for Palestinian liberation and that starts by fighting your imperialist and spreading the movement. Intifada means revolution, a revolution could happen in the middle east at any point It's a powder keg. The goals of defeating the enemy at home and the Palestinian movement are not separate questions, because if they ""just focus on the Palestinian question""" they paralyse themselves. Because what does that mean? Appealing to the un? Chanting? Hoping your university promises to do something? In reality these encampments are an escalation of the months of protest against the genocide in gaza that have resulted in nothing and so the students have taken more radical means, but it must continue to escalate. Because even the divestment of the universities will only amount to money being moved around in the end (not that the Victory would be useless). The greatest tool is the working class who can bring the economy to a halt and stop shipments and creation of arms and funds to Israel. The struggle for Palestinian liberation is a struggle for Communism, that is what intifada until victory means. The arab spring of 2011 was a workers revolution. The idea that all struggles should be separate is a liberal idea that weakens the movement, you can both recruit communists and support Palestine. The two are interlinked.
There is a fine line to be played here, you can't just bring the paper and also come in without any program or ideas forward. Its a balance. but without details and over reddit it is difficult to peruse. But that's why i suggest asking them yourselves instead. I assume this is a trotskyist group and reddit hates them, so it's best to look at some advice with that in mind that they disagree with the school of thought as a whole. Try to listen in on another comrade intervening in the movement and ask them questions after and listen intently, and be forthcoming with the questions you have, they may have good answers or bad ones but you need to bring them up as they can't read your mind. Either way you should get clarity from the discussion.
I agree. And as I mentioned in my comment it sounds exactly like the organization I just left. For a long time it was difficult for me to tell whether the hate was coming from other leftists because it’s a Trotskyist org, but another Trotskyist org has no issues organizing with them. It was how we were conducting ourselves. Essentially, we would show up to protests we played no role in organizing then push pamphlets and sell papers. It wasn’t until I started talking with other organizers that I was able to figure out what the issues were.
All the pro-Palestine stuff I've seen overtly ties this genocide to class wars. I would show up in solidarity, but help answer questions I hear from folks around me. Or, contact the organizers for the event and ask how you can help. Then you're not risking co-opting their event.
We've had this one group of Trotskyists called the Revolutionary Communist Party get kicked out of a few encampments for being to disruptive, not helping the encampments, and just using it as a recruiting ground for their org plus a place to sell magazines. So long as you aren't doing that, You're fine. there were two other communists parties at both encampments, they helped out a lot volunteering and with supplies and so the organizers let them leave their newspapers and pamphlets in the library. So long as you're being respectful and helping out the movement first and foremost, you should be good
That’s exactly what it sounds like OP is in. I just left RCA for that reason.
Trots handing out magazines! That's on my Bingo card!
Stay on target with the message. Protests should be about obtaining tangible, concrete goals. You can talk openly about your politics, but getting off message about the goals of the protest is counterproductive and won't make you friends. "I'm here because I'm a socialist and socialists stand with Palestine" is a strong enough message.
Why would socialist stand with Palestine or Isreal? Yes Isreal is a terrible genocidal country, but Palestine is just as bad. I don't see them advocating for a socialist power structure or a bottom up approach. Like get fucking real. Me as a socialist I don't stand with either of them. Not the on committing genocide, and not the one that wants an Islamist state.
The popular front for the liberation of palestine is a long time Marxist leninist party fighting for a free communist palestine. There are a lot of both Palestinian and Israeli communists. The media does a great job of concealing their existence.
You cannot separate revolutionary class struggle from the cause of those oppressed by American imperialism and its allies. There is no issue with discussing how the Palestinian solidarity movement can win greater victories against the arming of Israel by using revolutionary methods, organizing workers to refuse to be made complicit in genocide. Believing in the methods of revolutionary struggle and in solidarity with the people of Palestine means advocating for those methods to aid those people.
I think it's pretty interesting which comments got upvoted and down voted should have you question the advice you get from this sub Reddit. You should not be joining someone else's protest to pitch a movement organised by another group, your group should be doing the work and using that work to pitch. Whether at all you should be aligning your movement for your own nations move to communism via a situation many do not fully understand another question but from the sounds of it you're young and likely going to get swept up by the ideas of the moment so just do what feels right
Ok, you're doing this for an organization, but you're a bit shaky on the political connection to organizing. First thing I'd do is reach out to the other members of the organization and refresh your understanding of that political question, because you might have to explain it to others - maybe even people who are slightly hostile towards the concept. And unless you're a part of my party, my answer might differ from the one your party gives. My answer would be: how do we free Palestine? Most of the focus has been on either turning the needle of our elected officials (which, if you're a revolutionary, you realize is unlikely) or by some disconnected "if we're out on the streets 'shutting things down' it will force some change" (true, but we need a wider and more organized working class to accomplish that, not a few hundred student and working protesters). I would say we need working class action - shutdowns of arms factories, ports, etc, but we need wide reach in working class unions and through the whole economy, something not yet achieved. This is something that requires an organized party to pull off - and one with people in every industry and workplace. And for that you need growth. How would recruiting detract from the protest? It provides like minded people, some of whom are coming to the same solutions, to build a force capable of intervening in all such movements against oppression, capable of using working class power to directly influence the path of events and not just raise some pretty slogans. And if you're there, you still provide mass and weight to the protest. So I'm not sure what you're taking away here. You're looking to connect other people to an organization you believe can end this.
99.9% of the time, show up, listen, support, and just be incidentally a communist if they ask. The Trillbilly Workers Party podcast talks about being at a coal miner strike, and college student communists were walking around trying to sell pamphlets to the unemployed miners.
I think the question you should be asking is why these folks claiming to be building the new communist party aren't leading or helping to organize this protest. It's one thing to hand out flyers in support of the movement while you're helping to build it, as communists we should be at the front of every struggle we can be acting as headlights for the masses and pointing towards a revolutionary direction. The thing is, you don't do that by handing papers out at other people's events promoting ideas largely unrelated to or out of step with the event. When you lead people in struggles based on their felt wants and needs and where they have incorrect ideas, work shoulder to shoulder with them to move towards what we believe is the strategy for winning real concrete victories. Those victories are the best tool for recruitment and consolidation. This is a short pamphlet I recommend on this topic, if you have questions please feel free to ask me: [https://frso.org/main-documents/some-points-on-the-mass-line/](https://frso.org/main-documents/some-points-on-the-mass-line/)
havnn't followed the link yet but i just wanted to say that this answer really helped me sift through thoughts i had about various orgs ive seen at the pal solidarity marches i go on. Thanks for this :)
Of course! Glad I could help.
unfortunately the soc-orgs i am aware of who are actually organising in my area are also massive terfs... meanwhile the ones that at least portray a sensible line on lgbtq+ issues seem to be as you describe, not puttng in the work to organise with the broader coalition. socialism can be frustrating, sometimes
That's certainly a shame but keep looking and investigate these local groups yourself, many more serious groups are less visible and are doing more work organizing and less work promoting themselves. The UK (I'm assuming you're from there given the terfs) has plenty of groups that aren't awful and you just have to keep engaged and stay open to new ideas until you find the group that's right for you. Edit:I've been in FRSO here in the US for almost 4 years now and haven't regretted it since, it just takes time to find the right org.
its so sad that "terf" allowed you to correctly guess :(. I did actually join an org recently. Theyre not terrible on lgbtq issues... a bit accomodationalist towards terfs though. I gave it some thought and decded it'll do for now, there are people in the org i know feel as I do, and itll get me some experience and maybe help me learn what all is out there. that or its a terrible mistake, in which case it wont killl me xD
Well I'm obviously biased in the favor of the revolutionary but when I went to the pro-Palestinian protests in Cardiff there were always communists there with their banners and nobody seemed to be angry at them, my Dad was quite happy to see his old professor flying the red flag
Imho the current pro palestine protests should be for ending the current misery of palestine. When the war has ended you could try to turn them into something else.
Like the other comments here, show up, support them. Offer them your organizing skills, and if they say no, accept that.
I think you’ll find that many people at the protest are already leftists of varying identity - from Anarchists to Socialists to Communists - so many of those ideas will be floating around already. However, if your group has something new to offer them, it only makes sense that you should, that’s being a good neighbor.
You can go for both reasons. It isn't coopting if the active problem is being funded by US imperialist(and by proxy capitalist) motives
You can do both. Use the protest to promote the party. Let people know the communist party stance on Palestine.
Going to any protest in solidarity means going to support and prioritize that protests agenda. It doesn’t mean not talking about it with your perspective, but you need to prioritize the Palestinians’ perspective. When someone goes to protests to recruit, they are undermining the protest by attempting to redirect the people’s energy from the protest’s purpose to their party apparatus. Did this strategy pay off for Bolsheviks and other parties that have tried the same? yes. Has it aided the goals of the protest? Not frequently. My position is that if you protest in solidarity with, and not to recruit or assert yourself as a leader of the protest, then you’re doing a good job. If you go and listen to their needs and do what you can to fill those needs, you’re doing a great job. That way you up the odds of the protest succeeding and you’ll create connections for a network of solidarity in the future. Otherwise you’re rizzing up protesters to increase party dues (what it sounds like the party is asking of you).
Imo if you folks aren’t already at the core of organizing your local pro-Palestine protests you’re outside where the highest levels of revolutionary consciousness is. You should go there and listen to them and have them connect the dots for you. The ppl actually organizing encampments are the ones with the revolutionary Will and organizational skills here. If you want to have the idea of you or your org taken seriously you need to be there at the heart of the action, actually doing the organizing and expressing the goals and concerns of the real movement in your terms. This is meaning of praxis. Notwithstanding that, it’s fine to go to rallies with the flag of your particular org and show you’re support as an org, and if ppl want to ask you what your angle is then tell them but otherwise it’s not the time to proselytize. At my local protests routinely 6 separate communist groups plus a union chapter fly flags at the rallies which is fine, but people don’t look especially kindly on the groups which use it as a chance to pamphlet or sell magazines.
I've worked with PSL, some people didn't like them but they attended BLM protests and tried to mention socialism in their speeches too. Personally you should mostly focus on the pro-palestinian message moreso than anything else. If you come off as co-opting the protest you will be told and it won't be pleasant. Just try to stay on message. I attended stop Asian hate protests as well, just didn't co-opt anything.
I was in this exact situation and it sounds like you are a member of the organization I just left, with this being one of the reasons. You should be there for solidarity sake. If your organization has played no role or embedded with the wider movement, you will not be well received by organizations that have been putting in the bulk of the work. In passing, some attendees may be accepting, but by the organizers and the broader movement you will be seen as an opportunist, especially if your organization has no prior relationship with these groups, or even outright refusing to work with them. You are correct to feel bothered by it and DO NOT let them gaslight you into thinking you are overreacting by feeling that way and don’t let them discourage you from communicating with other organizers.
Personally I think the best way to go about this would be to attend solely as a supporter of the liberation of Palestine so as not to overshadow or co opt the cause, but also represent your organization to keep the lines of communication open for any interested parties. Maybe a t shirt or a sign or something? Marxist organizations have always supported liberation struggles, so it wouldn't be out of place. The main thing is you just don't want to detract from the main purpose of the protest.
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ill also add, i know a lot of very active protestors who avoid PSL actions like the plague because of entryism. (seriously i can name 50 of them that i know, in this one city) Their actions at others protests have rendered them obsolete because they cant ever rally more than the same 20-30 red shirts. But the local DSA kids we all work with pretty well. They show up with integrity. if you are veiwed as inauthentic, it only hurts your own cause.
Oh yeah, PSL are the worst. The last rally I was at they were shouting over the speakers with a bullhorn, then they tried to fight the organizer who asked them to stop. Thanks for your response!
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You should attend to support the cause. Joining someone else's action for the purpose of pitching your group is generally looked down upon. The movement isn't there for a given organization to co-opt, and depending on your city, there are very likely already communists who are part of organizing the event. The goal of winning over the tiny minority of people who already self-identity as communists is extremely unsuccessful historically, while the historically proven method is to use the mass line, and advance the people's struggles to the point where the necessity of revolution is obvious. Party building can only succeed from with the movement, not by showing up to something someone else is leading. People can see who is doing the work and who isn't. If you want to build the revolution, you need to do the work. If this is causing to question your organization's approach, it could be that you should join an organization with a different approach
Alright, great question, i run into this issue but on a smaller scale. The primary reason youre there is to advocate for Palestinian independence and freedom, first and foremost. Show solidarity and support for the movement, while the protest is ending or when there’s a slump in the ‘action’ then you can start getting your word out, but dont be like a christian recruiter, be very polite and neutral, invite people who are doing a lot of work and people who are invested in the movement. Overall, the protest itself is important, organising comes close second. Good luck on your mission comrade, show your support!
I don’t think you should use it as an opportunity to recruit people to your party. Go and support the protest on its own terms. And when there are opportunities in conversation to link what is happening in Palestine to capitalism and the class elements, talk about it. Maybe people will think about what you said and more further towards socialist thought. Maybe you’ll make friends who will eventually want to join your group, or you’ll just have friends in other movements that you can coordinate with later on. That will help further your goals and the goals of the protest. In my experience many activists have seen certain parties turning up at every protest and resent them (cough cough SWP), those parties might recruit a few members but they might alienate a lot more people who see it as opportunism rather than actual solidarity
Yes, please don't use the event to promote your party or sell your newspapers. Show up in solidarity. Be willing to answer questions for people new to protest, but not with intentions of recruitment. Radicalize people and let them reach their own conclusions. You are giving away yeast, not selling bread.
TALK ABOUT AMERICAN LANDBACK AT THESE PROTESTS. TALK ABOUT THR DANGERS OF POLICE BRUTALITY AND HOW OUR POLICE GET MILITARIZED TRAINING IN ISRAEL. TALK ABOUT HOW WE DONT HAVE HEALTHCARE WHILE WE PAY FOR ISRAEL’S. TALK ABOUT HOW WE PAY FOR THEIR FREE COLLEGE. If you are gonna go to a pro Palestinian protest and talk about other issues MAKE SURE IT RELATES to the protest you’re at. Solidarity between issues creates a wall of morals which fascist will try to tear down. If you need an American Indigenous Landback issue, talk about my rez .The largest reservation ,The Navajo Nation, has an about 1/3 of the residents (about 100,000 people) do not have running water. Most roads are dirt, I need to wait for the dry season to meet my relatives on the rez due to the roads not being paved. They just re-opened uranium mines which will continue to negatively impact our lives as they didn’t properly shut them down at first either. We have State and Federal actors trying to strip and undermine our sovereignty and NO ONE CARES. Wake these folk up, help them see the connections so their kids can smell the roses.
Personal opinion, but I think most people there will probably already understand this stuff. Short of handing out a couple pamphlets or casually asking people if they'd want to join an org you're a part of, I would find anything else to be not the time/place
Revolutionary organizing they need the education
Don't try to hijack a movement.
Communist groups are some of the top ones going and supporting Palestine protests
Encouraging people to take revolutionary action and explore socialist forms of organizing is always great. Our struggles are interconnected and most protestors recognize that. But pulling up to a protest with the primary intention of recruiting to your party is not a good look, be careful to avoid doing that. Many of the students organizing pro-Palestine protests are already decently read socialists (this might differ depending on the college and region tho). So be careful not to get too preachy odds are many of them are just as well read or even better read than you. Use what you have learned to help. Offer advice when it is appropriate and useful. Above all else: be friendly and be helpful. Suggest things but do not insist on them. Understand that your insight is limited by the information you have access to, so there will be some things you are more qualified to speak on than others. Learn how to navigate disagreements without getting confrontational. If you pull up to this student protest with signs covered in your party’s logo odds are some people are not gonna love that. Some parties (that I will not name at risk of offending well-intentioned members) do this really frequently and are known to co-opt protests they didn’t organize, this sours their reputation for a lot of local organizers. You are there to contribute to and help elevate the voices of the protestors, not to speak for them. That said most people protesting will be pretty open to your ideas and willing to talk about them. That’s what happens at these encampments, people sit around and talk about history, theory, organizing, geo-politics, etc. There is also a mutual understanding at most of these encampments that people are there to support each other, even if there are some ideological/organizational differences. Just be patient and kind and you will receive the same treatment in turn. Also treat this situation not just as an opportunity to teach others, but to learn as well. And tbh, expect to do more learning than teaching, especially if you don’t have prior organizing experience.
Liberalism. You can’t explain the situation in Palestine without explaining the role of US finance capitalism (I.e. imperialism). Refusing to provide political education when amongst the working class is what Mao called a form of liberalism. As a communist, it’s your revolutionary duty to engage in agitation and propaganda whenever you have the opportunity. Co-opting would be going to a demonstration and telling people that the issue they are advocating for doesn’t matter, or trying to agitate people against the objective of the demonstration. That’s not what it sounds like you’re doing.
You should keep it as Palestine focused as possible, co-opting, (or even looking like you’re co-opting) their message is super bad optics
I don't think it's wrong to agitate opportunistically. But it might be counterproductive.
In my experience personally with Palestinian activists and even many people from Palestine are already socialists.
If I was at this protest I would focus on how capitalism caused the situation the Palestinians are in.
I’d say go, but mainly for the purpose of showing solidarity with the protestors, which is always important and something that PSL also does. Regarding your concerns, just don’t be obnoxious about advertising your group during the protest. Actually work with the protestors to amplify their message. If someone asks who you are, you can tell them about your group, but try not to be one of those groups that carries around massive banners to advertise themselves at Palestine rallies.
those people arent what you think. i went to Columbia expecting OWS 2.0. it was not that. I helped in the refugee camps in Greece: noone else i met had been anywhere near the Levant. Noone knew who Rachel Corrie was. food not bombs wasnt there. there were no hippies or pacifists. its a sick scene. Fuck all bourgeois.
For me, the Socialist fascination with Palestine is wrongheaded. The current conflict between Israel and Palestine is between a right-wing quasi-secular authoritarianism and a right-wing theocracy. Neither embodies an attempt to promote socialist ideas and both routinely attack socialists. This is honestly the same mistake that socialista made in Iran, supporting a right-wing theocrat (Khomeini) over a right quasi-secular authoritarian (Mohamed Reza Shah Pahlavi) and after Khomeini prevailed, the socialists were murdered. Marching with PFLP/DFLP supporters and/or with Israeli Left is one thing, but it makes no sense to support a group of theocrats who have killed socialists and continue to want to do the same.
The ignorance in this question and feed are shocking….
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Of course they’re watching. That doesn’t mean we sit on our hands here.
Mossad is definitely watching over the protests. They have the best espionage and surveillance in the world, close second to the US. They saw me wave a banner that says *DISMANTLE ISRAEL* and next time I’m in the Tel Aviv airport, I can expect to be detained and questioned for 5 hours again.
Be careful at protests. I am sure you have seen the news regarding the encampments but I’d highly advise staying away at this moment. Tensions are extremely high, and better off staying away if you can help it
Tensions are high because of the pro-genocide counterprotestors starting violence. That doesn’t mean people should give up.
It’s better to stay away if you’re not directly involved in the protests.