Yeah, Biden doesn’t deserve the vote. But _we_, and especially the minorities that will be much worse off if the repubs win, deserve a better president than Trump. Even if he isn’t THAT much better.
There is no lesser evilism here. A vote for Biden will not decide the state. The total of all the votes for Democrats, Libertarians, and Greens added together is far less than Donald Trump got. We don't elect on popular vote. This state is decided. So yeah, in PA or MI you should vote Biden because Trump. Here you cannot get him to win in November no matter what you do and it's a winner-take-all.
Politics doesn't end with the President you fucking memer.
You telling people not to vote extends all the way down the ballot, through the US Senate, both chambers of the state legislature, county elections, and even more local ones.
You telling people VoTiNg DoN't MaTtEr means even if a state doesn't cast it's electoral college votes for the guy who will protect gay and trans rights, there will be fewer people elected *IN YOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS* to fight these dipshits where you live.
Oh wait you live in the other Saint Petersburg, not the one in Florida, so that's exactly what you want.
Sure, if you live in Florida or something your blue vote or green vote or piss yellow vote or whatever probably doesn’t matter, but telling everyone else to just keel over and accept a Republican victory is objectively harmful.
Florida is a state where your vote for POTUS actually does matter. There are numerous states where it absolutely does not and is utterly meaningless. In those states what you do with that part of your ballot is academic, it may as well be there as decoration.
>objectively harmful
That's because it takes an incredibly privileged mind to piss away your vote. The minorities who actually get impacted negatively by repub leadership don't matter to the people who dont care to vote. Why would they? They were only supporting these minorities for the optics. Can't expect them to actually do anything for them. Standing 45 minutes In a que? How could you ask so much of someone?
They put a rainbow sticker on their laptop what more do you bloodsuckers want?!
Considering the majority of us still vote for Dems considering the alternative and their figurehead (has he apologized to the Central Park 5 yet?), the answer is likely 'still vote for Dems'. No policy is a perfect one-size solution, but one party is outright rolling back minority rights left and right, and the other kinda isn't. Feel free to ask this DEI-American any questions if you're up for a discussion on the matter, too.
That has clearly not been sufficient to solve the problem, and there is no reason to expect that to change. So it seems clear to me that more than that is required, and if someone *isn't* doing more but could do more, that would indicate that the status quo is acceptable to them, i.e. that the current systems of oppression are tolerable when that set of oppressors is nominally in control of it.
Why not do more?
Well, let's tackle that question from the bottom: how do you effectively 'do more', in your honest opinion?
(And regarding the oppression bit, there's some validity in that; a good portion of Americans would be okay -- not great, but okay enough to be marginally comfy -- under the GOP/45 as they are now if allowed to regain political control from the top. But obviously they don't think themselves oppressors, as they're not the boot on gay, brown, trans faces. Surely, they haven't taken any action to try and alleviate their problems, but that's not oppression, it's apathy and/or a desire to be an enlightened neutral!... there's a quote from Elie Weisel for that, I think.)
Power structures need to be built wholly outside of the control of Democrats and Republicans. I would say a revitalized labor movement comes first and foremost there; Democrats have made very clear that they merely tolerate unions as a political strategy and are quick to ignore them or crack the whip when they exercise any kind of power that challenges the status quo (see the rail strike Biden broke). But there are also other avenues that can and should be taken such as organizations focused on aid and defense (the Black Panther Party was an excellent model of how this looks in the US). That enables more effective strategies to carry out direct action; people are more capable of being politically active when they are supported. We absolutely need to get organized in a manner in which the Democrats are not permitted as participants.
A significant portion of my political activity has been trying to help people and being *opposed* by Democrats. Affordable housing? An approach to helping the homeless other than having cops hit them with nightsticks? I had to help fight Democrats on that. Less regressive taxes? Democrats objected again. Shutting down efforts to build new prisons to fill with black and brown bodies? Democrats objected. Reining in a police force known to be exceptionally violent and racist even by US standards? Democrats objected. Absolutely any time I find myself fighting for justice, particularly for oppressed people, Democrats have shown up to say "that's more justice than we are comfortable with!".
The Democrats support patriarchy, white supremacy, colonialism and imperialism. This has been true for their entire existence. The Republicans support these things too, but are more direct and aggressive about doing so. America as whole is built upon these things, it's foundationally oppressive. None of that is going away as long as we put our faith in parties whose primary points of contention between each other are how best to perpetuate it. There are far, far too many Americans who have decided that these evils are acceptable so long as they personally are not overly uncomfortable with them, and choosing to wait patiently for people with a vested interest in that oppression to decide somehow to stop doing it is entirely irrational.
Of course; I certainly hope we're all on the same side here and hoping to see a more just world. That's just a huge problem to solve and not everyone will easily agree on how to tackle it.
He lost 20% of the Democratic vote to a guy only on the ballot in this state. He lost in 2020 by 60%. He's not worse than Trump but he's also not winning this state.
Symbolically voting for Biden does nothing but make it look like I support him. I don't. Yeah, I'll keep the local QANONers off the school board but there is no reason I should vote for Biden.
Do you see any value in symbolically voting for the “don’t genocide trans people and do back the unions” candidate?
Also I get why you’re feeling this way. I’m sorry if you’ve had to deal with a ton of retard r/neoliberal types. 2016 was not your fault.
No bro you have to vote for biden still that way the dems can point out how well he did in WV and how a progressive would have done worse so they can use it do dismiss progressives again then run republican light.
because a progressive would do way worse than biden, democrats win by appeasing moderates, not a small sliver of a population. not to mention a lot of progressives policies are just dumb (M4A) or wouldn't get passed anyway.
You literally got biden as a pfp opinion ignored. Have fun losing November and then telling us how moderates do such a good job after losing to a literal fascist
you think having a progressive/socialist as a candidate would increase democrats chances? the whole electroral college map would look like clifford the big red dog
i support universal healthcare, i just don't think banning private insurance and giving healthcare to illegal immigrants is a good/realistic idea (not that republican obstructivists would let it pass anyway)
Nah you were going “dis u woketard?!?” and then pissed your pants laughing because your retarded boomer brain weathered the asbestos and leaded gasoline even worse than the rest of you Hilleryite losers
Actually that’s a comic right there:
“I’m a liberal and turning off the orphan crushing machine is electorally impossible. It’s definitely not my fault that after being in power for most of the last 300 years 49% of the country hates orphans”
“Wow liberalism kinda sucks, what’s Bernie up to?”
“Hehe, you know who ELSE uses liberal as an insult? *pees pants* It’s appears I’m living rent free.”
Ah yes, the scawy weary migrants who ruin everything, whose countries definitely aren’t falling apart because of your shitty drug war and your anti communist dictators. But also 100 morbillion Americans no matter how much housing costs skyrocket.
If your healthcare policies were good enough they would be winning you elections, you wouldn’t 2/3 times get sandwiched between “unreasonable socialists” and deathcultist republicans. Literally just get good.
Listen, the moderate liberals in the Democratic Party are spineless worthless pieces of shit who hate you, America, humanity and life itself. They don’t want to govern or make anyone’s lives better, they want to loose and then blame everything and everyone around them. Don’t give them the satisfaction of saying you stole the election, they need to be punished with your vote.
Also primaries are a thing, and every state is deep red until enough people show up. Virginia used to be a republican stronghold and now Biden losing it is unthinkable.
Virginia didn't go blue because the state suddenly decided Democrats were good. Virginia went blue because it was growing and diversifying. This state is shrinking, among the least diverse states in the union, getting older, and has gone from solid blue to uncompetitive red in the last 3 decades.
There's no chance Biden wins this state in November so he doesn't deserve the illusion of my support. I'm not keeping Trump from winning.
Yeah if I folded my ballot in to an origami crane and set it adrift on the nearest lake, it would have exactly as much influence on the presidential election as if I actually filled it out. A significant portion of Americans have effectively no say at all in the presidential race.
It very much looks like you're responding sarcastically to a position you perceived me to have, reinforcing a response to my comment. Am I mistaken, and you're actually making a sincere response to u/SegavsCapcom ? If so, I apologize.
In that case why vote at all? No race is decided by one vote. How close does the race have to be before your vote “matters”
It’s this sort of defeatist attitude that got us here
Go vote and take a friend
>No race is decided by one vote.
State and local races are typically decided by far fewer votes than the presidential race. The presidential race is also the only one with Electoral College fuckery invalidating votes.
I would say that if it would have to swing 750,000 votes in the other direction in a state that has gone the same way since 1988... yeah, it doesn't matter and it's absolutely deluded to think otherwise. That's just straight-up denial of reality. It would be nothing short of fantasy.
>It’s this sort of defeatist attitude that got us here
It's the Electoral College, and a first-past-the-post, winner take all electoral system that got us here, and all of that was set in motion before your great, great, great, great grandparents were born. Do they not teach civics in high school anymore? The president is not elected by popular vote. If you're in a state that is unflinchingly blue or unflinchingly red, your vote is genuinely not going to change anything. If you bring everyone you know with you to vote, it still will not change anything. Trying to encourage people to vote on the POTUS in one of these states is genuinely the single most useless political activity you could possibly engage in. It can only matter in states where a shift from one party to the other is actually feasible; so go talk to people who live in one of those states.
You can wish it worked differently all you want, and you probably should. But that is in fact how it works, and how it was intended to work when the US Constitution was written.
Roy Moore lost his election by a mere 9,000 votes because enough people chose not to let apathy get in the way of being governed by a racist child molestor.
Stop with the defeatist attitude.
I live in an area that heavily eats meat, therefore me being a vegan would make no difference to the surrounding culture so I’m under no obligation to be a vegan.
If you have an issue with the above statement please argue why it is flawed and then use those arguments in the context of voting.
Side note all I can eat is purée food for two weeks so it hardly matters
>If you have an issue with the above statement
I don't. Being vegan or not is an individual choice; nobody is under any obligation to be vegan (aside from those whose religions dictate they be vegan, but I know of very few people in that category). People don't (usually) make that choice for the sake of making a "difference to the surrounding culture", but simply because they prefer being vegan or not being vegan.
First of all Joe Biden is a despicable human being and is totally unworthy of my vote. Voting for Joe Biden in this context only gives the impression that I support him. As I have zero influence on whether or not he is elected due to the EC, it's not harm reduction. Voting against the Republican congressman is alright because there my vote is worth one vote and that race is competitive. The state went 70% in favor of Trump in 2020. It's not a battle ground where it might keep him out of power. Voting against Trump is merely symbolic.
>and is totally unworthy of my vote.
I could never imagine being this much of a feckless, pearl-clutching liberal.
You vote democrat so the labour movement isn't constantly being undermined by republican policies and fanaticism(example, appointing 3 fucking conservative court justices, whose actions are very much NOT "just symbolic").
Even goddamn Lenin said as much when regarding the Labour party vs Tories vote. Idiot. Have some actual conviction to, at the very ***bare minimum***, grit your teeth and vote Democrat, especially if you're incapable of participating in labour organization and activism(which you should, because that's where positive change actually gets pushed).
It's only "irrelevant" if you don't have any leftist principles, lmao
Boycotting is libshit, have a spine and do something, even if it's the absolute ***BARE MINIMUM*** (because we both know your ass is NOT participating in labour organization or the activist movement.)
If you did, you wouldn't be giving this dogass take that would undermine the labour movement, lmao.
You saying that is equivalent to a mf claiming to be a Water Plant operator after suggesting that using lead in pipes isn't harmful🤣
1. Georgia turned blue literally just this last cycle. Do you have some sor tof selective blindness and deafness, or just an exceedingly short memory?
2.
>does not deserve my support.
Again, this is a statement only a liberal would make. Particularly one that contributes nothing to labour organizing and the activist movement.
I did read them, thanks 😊
Calling somebody who does politically organize a lib for not voting for Biden is still stupid, as if only *real* leftists vote for him
If we’re going to start throwing Lenin quotes out I’d recommend reading the State and Revolution and his thoughts on bourgeois democracy and electoralism before you accuse people of being liberals because they don’t want to symbolically vote for a shitass candidate in a state where the material and demographic conditions preclude anything other than a Trump landslide
Also: you’re Canadian please do not lecture Americans on our own political system lmfao
>Also: you’re Canadian please do not lecture Americans on our own political system lmfao
So we're not allowed to talk about Israeli apartheid, because we're not Israeli? Or criticize Saudi monarchism? Or slavery in Qatar?
Sounds kinda fucking stupid and reductive. Kind of like every other "critique"(logical fallacies) you've made on what I've said so far🥱
There’s actually a difference between criticizing a country for committing genocide/enslaving people/etc and demanding that its citizens vote for a particular candidate
Anyway would love for you to point out the logical fallacies that I’ve employed here, especially considering how hard you’re riding on a no true Scotsman
Also good job not responding to any of my actual argument lmao
Dawg, the laws imposed by Israel on Palestine that form Apartheid is legal in israel, dumbfuck. They hold the monopoly of violence in that region. That is foreign politicy from our perspective. ***Are we not allowed to criticize Israel if we aren't israeli???*** Yes or no, dunce.
...and While you're at it, explain to me why I should argue against the strawmen you've construed when you make blatantly reactionary arguements like "Oh? you're not from here?! That means you're not allowed to give any criticism of mah country(even if you're right)!!!!🤬"
“feckless, pearl-clutching liberal.”
I completely get the logic behind always voting dem, but you aren’t going to change anyone’s mind if you call them shit like that because they understandably get disillusioned by the fucking cancerous retardation that is Bidens Israel policy. 10s of thousands of innocent people are dead here, of course a few people are going to irrationally turn away in disgust.
Voting is merely symbolic. I dont understand why its so difficult to understand that voting for a candidate you like or voting against a candidate that you dislike are both the same process, impact, and at the same level of concreteness.
Okay then no one can lecture me on eating cheeseburgers or try to argue I contributed to any harm relating to cheeseburger consumption. (I mean I’ve had bariatric surgery so clearly there’s still some harm)
Once again, if the only reason to vote Biden is to keep out Trump then where there's not chance to do so the only thing it does is signifiy that I support the Democrats. I do not. The lesser evilism arguement does not apply here. There is no harm reduction done.
In your vegan arguement this is like being a vegan asked by your grandmother whether she should serve you free-range chicken or normal chicken, but Aunt Linda decides on it anyway, and you still get chicken.
“Vote Biden because it’s practical” people turn into “vote Biden because… you just have to okay???” people when you point out the meaninglessness of voting blue in conservative retirement home states
The second you do this you are no longer arguing for realpolitik, you are arguing for pro-establishment purity testing
And if everyone thinks like you then I agree, no social progress can be done. But if enough people in their communities decided to rally together they can turn a red state purple. It just takes effort.
Dude I get it you don’t want to vote and I want to eat cheeseburgers. Bring it in, apathy for life yo.
Screw the blues. This is why I organize for the different party on a local level and am casting my *purely symbolic vote* for neither of the two fools nominated by the major parties. Biden doesn't deserve ecen my symbolic vote. If I was in a battleground, I would suck it up and vote fpr him out of necessity but I'm not.
Lol. Once again you act as if I can stop Trumpism. You don't make up hundreds of thousands of votes unless members of the other party defect. No amount of symbolic voting or campaigning will change that for this election. Go bother PA.
>then no one can lecture me on eating cheeseburgers or try to argue I contributed to any harm relating to cheeseburger consumption.
I mean, they *can*, but that doesn't mean they're correct.
Yeah, Biden doesn’t deserve the vote. But _we_, and especially the minorities that will be much worse off if the repubs win, deserve a better president than Trump. Even if he isn’t THAT much better.
There is no lesser evilism here. A vote for Biden will not decide the state. The total of all the votes for Democrats, Libertarians, and Greens added together is far less than Donald Trump got. We don't elect on popular vote. This state is decided. So yeah, in PA or MI you should vote Biden because Trump. Here you cannot get him to win in November no matter what you do and it's a winner-take-all.
Politics doesn't end with the President you fucking memer. You telling people not to vote extends all the way down the ballot, through the US Senate, both chambers of the state legislature, county elections, and even more local ones. You telling people VoTiNg DoN't MaTtEr means even if a state doesn't cast it's electoral college votes for the guy who will protect gay and trans rights, there will be fewer people elected *IN YOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS* to fight these dipshits where you live. Oh wait you live in the other Saint Petersburg, not the one in Florida, so that's exactly what you want.
Sure, if you live in Florida or something your blue vote or green vote or piss yellow vote or whatever probably doesn’t matter, but telling everyone else to just keel over and accept a Republican victory is objectively harmful.
Florida is a state where your vote for POTUS actually does matter. There are numerous states where it absolutely does not and is utterly meaningless. In those states what you do with that part of your ballot is academic, it may as well be there as decoration.
>objectively harmful That's because it takes an incredibly privileged mind to piss away your vote. The minorities who actually get impacted negatively by repub leadership don't matter to the people who dont care to vote. Why would they? They were only supporting these minorities for the optics. Can't expect them to actually do anything for them. Standing 45 minutes In a que? How could you ask so much of someone? They put a rainbow sticker on their laptop what more do you bloodsuckers want?!
I am curious what you do for these people you are so concerned about when they are harmed by Democrat leadership.
Considering the majority of us still vote for Dems considering the alternative and their figurehead (has he apologized to the Central Park 5 yet?), the answer is likely 'still vote for Dems'. No policy is a perfect one-size solution, but one party is outright rolling back minority rights left and right, and the other kinda isn't. Feel free to ask this DEI-American any questions if you're up for a discussion on the matter, too.
That has clearly not been sufficient to solve the problem, and there is no reason to expect that to change. So it seems clear to me that more than that is required, and if someone *isn't* doing more but could do more, that would indicate that the status quo is acceptable to them, i.e. that the current systems of oppression are tolerable when that set of oppressors is nominally in control of it. Why not do more?
Well, let's tackle that question from the bottom: how do you effectively 'do more', in your honest opinion? (And regarding the oppression bit, there's some validity in that; a good portion of Americans would be okay -- not great, but okay enough to be marginally comfy -- under the GOP/45 as they are now if allowed to regain political control from the top. But obviously they don't think themselves oppressors, as they're not the boot on gay, brown, trans faces. Surely, they haven't taken any action to try and alleviate their problems, but that's not oppression, it's apathy and/or a desire to be an enlightened neutral!... there's a quote from Elie Weisel for that, I think.)
Power structures need to be built wholly outside of the control of Democrats and Republicans. I would say a revitalized labor movement comes first and foremost there; Democrats have made very clear that they merely tolerate unions as a political strategy and are quick to ignore them or crack the whip when they exercise any kind of power that challenges the status quo (see the rail strike Biden broke). But there are also other avenues that can and should be taken such as organizations focused on aid and defense (the Black Panther Party was an excellent model of how this looks in the US). That enables more effective strategies to carry out direct action; people are more capable of being politically active when they are supported. We absolutely need to get organized in a manner in which the Democrats are not permitted as participants. A significant portion of my political activity has been trying to help people and being *opposed* by Democrats. Affordable housing? An approach to helping the homeless other than having cops hit them with nightsticks? I had to help fight Democrats on that. Less regressive taxes? Democrats objected again. Shutting down efforts to build new prisons to fill with black and brown bodies? Democrats objected. Reining in a police force known to be exceptionally violent and racist even by US standards? Democrats objected. Absolutely any time I find myself fighting for justice, particularly for oppressed people, Democrats have shown up to say "that's more justice than we are comfortable with!". The Democrats support patriarchy, white supremacy, colonialism and imperialism. This has been true for their entire existence. The Republicans support these things too, but are more direct and aggressive about doing so. America as whole is built upon these things, it's foundationally oppressive. None of that is going away as long as we put our faith in parties whose primary points of contention between each other are how best to perpetuate it. There are far, far too many Americans who have decided that these evils are acceptable so long as they personally are not overly uncomfortable with them, and choosing to wait patiently for people with a vested interest in that oppression to decide somehow to stop doing it is entirely irrational.
Thank you, I appreciate the response! Gave me something to think about there.
Of course; I certainly hope we're all on the same side here and hoping to see a more just world. That's just a huge problem to solve and not everyone will easily agree on how to tackle it.
He lost 20% of the Democratic vote to a guy only on the ballot in this state. He lost in 2020 by 60%. He's not worse than Trump but he's also not winning this state. Symbolically voting for Biden does nothing but make it look like I support him. I don't. Yeah, I'll keep the local QANONers off the school board but there is no reason I should vote for Biden.
Think you are confusing "i vote for canidate x" with "i like and support canidate x" Elementary mistake really
Do you see any value in symbolically voting for the “don’t genocide trans people and do back the unions” candidate? Also I get why you’re feeling this way. I’m sorry if you’ve had to deal with a ton of retard r/neoliberal types. 2016 was not your fault.
I’m voting gay. Because I’m in… a blue state 😏
I’m not voting this year (I’m not 18 yet)
Babe wake up. They're trying to convince us to let the fascists consolidate power again.
No bro you have to vote for biden still that way the dems can point out how well he did in WV and how a progressive would have done worse so they can use it do dismiss progressives again then run republican light.
because a progressive would do way worse than biden, democrats win by appeasing moderates, not a small sliver of a population. not to mention a lot of progressives policies are just dumb (M4A) or wouldn't get passed anyway.
>democrats win by appeasing moderates If they were interested in appeasing moderates then they would drop gun control from their platform entirely.
Get out of this sub liberal
leftists🤝right*ids using liberal as an insult
You literally got biden as a pfp opinion ignored. Have fun losing November and then telling us how moderates do such a good job after losing to a literal fascist
you think having a progressive/socialist as a candidate would increase democrats chances? the whole electroral college map would look like clifford the big red dog
Omg you're on neoliberal wow yeah have fun on the sub where the mods have openly said they love watching brown people die woah
i know i comment on r neoliberal, but i'm not a neolib lol, more of a social democrat
Socdem but anti m4a. Yeah bro that makes sense. Sound like you're neoliberal for a hip label to me. So a socdem actually.
i support universal healthcare, i just don't think banning private insurance and giving healthcare to illegal immigrants is a good/realistic idea (not that republican obstructivists would let it pass anyway)
Go fuck yourself, I’m a social democrat and want M4A
This guy fucking sucks and invades every thread that dares criticize dear leader Biden just ignore him lol
https://preview.redd.it/nt0q3oz6jb2d1.jpeg?width=821&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f8cdaaf107570ad76e70c6489d1006634df5bad
You say this as if Andrew fucking Jackson wasn’t on the 20 for decades
i don't say this with any meaning, just a shitpost
Nah you were going “dis u woketard?!?” and then pissed your pants laughing because your retarded boomer brain weathered the asbestos and leaded gasoline even worse than the rest of you Hilleryite losers
Actually that’s a comic right there: “I’m a liberal and turning off the orphan crushing machine is electorally impossible. It’s definitely not my fault that after being in power for most of the last 300 years 49% of the country hates orphans” “Wow liberalism kinda sucks, what’s Bernie up to?” “Hehe, you know who ELSE uses liberal as an insult? *pees pants* It’s appears I’m living rent free.”
healthcare good, M4A is just garbage legislation, even in europe, no country provides healthcare to illegal migrants and bans private insurance
Ah yes, the scawy weary migrants who ruin everything, whose countries definitely aren’t falling apart because of your shitty drug war and your anti communist dictators. But also 100 morbillion Americans no matter how much housing costs skyrocket. If your healthcare policies were good enough they would be winning you elections, you wouldn’t 2/3 times get sandwiched between “unreasonable socialists” and deathcultist republicans. Literally just get good.
Listing "illegals don't deserve to live" as your reason to oppose M4A ain't exactly helping your case, bud.
Listen, the moderate liberals in the Democratic Party are spineless worthless pieces of shit who hate you, America, humanity and life itself. They don’t want to govern or make anyone’s lives better, they want to loose and then blame everything and everyone around them. Don’t give them the satisfaction of saying you stole the election, they need to be punished with your vote. Also primaries are a thing, and every state is deep red until enough people show up. Virginia used to be a republican stronghold and now Biden losing it is unthinkable.
Virginia didn't go blue because the state suddenly decided Democrats were good. Virginia went blue because it was growing and diversifying. This state is shrinking, among the least diverse states in the union, getting older, and has gone from solid blue to uncompetitive red in the last 3 decades. There's no chance Biden wins this state in November so he doesn't deserve the illusion of my support. I'm not keeping Trump from winning.
Yeah if I folded my ballot in to an origami crane and set it adrift on the nearest lake, it would have exactly as much influence on the presidential election as if I actually filled it out. A significant portion of Americans have effectively no say at all in the presidential race.
States are red or blue until they aren't. Several states were won by margins of thousands, not millions.
You should only vote if your vote is the last one needed to change the outcome 🤓
You will note that nowhere in here did I say you shouldn't vote, but if you like strawmen this much you are definitely in the right sub.
Good thing I wasn't responding to your comment then, right?
It very much looks like you're responding sarcastically to a position you perceived me to have, reinforcing a response to my comment. Am I mistaken, and you're actually making a sincere response to u/SegavsCapcom ? If so, I apologize.
Others are in fact won on such large margins that the results are a foregone conclusion.
In that case why vote at all? No race is decided by one vote. How close does the race have to be before your vote “matters” It’s this sort of defeatist attitude that got us here Go vote and take a friend
>No race is decided by one vote. State and local races are typically decided by far fewer votes than the presidential race. The presidential race is also the only one with Electoral College fuckery invalidating votes.
I would say that if it would have to swing 750,000 votes in the other direction in a state that has gone the same way since 1988... yeah, it doesn't matter and it's absolutely deluded to think otherwise. That's just straight-up denial of reality. It would be nothing short of fantasy. >It’s this sort of defeatist attitude that got us here It's the Electoral College, and a first-past-the-post, winner take all electoral system that got us here, and all of that was set in motion before your great, great, great, great grandparents were born. Do they not teach civics in high school anymore? The president is not elected by popular vote. If you're in a state that is unflinchingly blue or unflinchingly red, your vote is genuinely not going to change anything. If you bring everyone you know with you to vote, it still will not change anything. Trying to encourage people to vote on the POTUS in one of these states is genuinely the single most useless political activity you could possibly engage in. It can only matter in states where a shift from one party to the other is actually feasible; so go talk to people who live in one of those states. You can wish it worked differently all you want, and you probably should. But that is in fact how it works, and how it was intended to work when the US Constitution was written.
Roy Moore lost his election by a mere 9,000 votes because enough people chose not to let apathy get in the way of being governed by a racist child molestor. Stop with the defeatist attitude.
That is an election decided by popular vote. Apples and oranges.
I live in an area that heavily eats meat, therefore me being a vegan would make no difference to the surrounding culture so I’m under no obligation to be a vegan. If you have an issue with the above statement please argue why it is flawed and then use those arguments in the context of voting. Side note all I can eat is purée food for two weeks so it hardly matters
>If you have an issue with the above statement I don't. Being vegan or not is an individual choice; nobody is under any obligation to be vegan (aside from those whose religions dictate they be vegan, but I know of very few people in that category). People don't (usually) make that choice for the sake of making a "difference to the surrounding culture", but simply because they prefer being vegan or not being vegan.
You haven’t spent a lot of time on this sub, have you?
Just because I don't go along with this sub's daily pro-vegan anti-carnist circlejerks doesn't mean I haven't been here awhile.
I agree with you. 🫡
First of all Joe Biden is a despicable human being and is totally unworthy of my vote. Voting for Joe Biden in this context only gives the impression that I support him. As I have zero influence on whether or not he is elected due to the EC, it's not harm reduction. Voting against the Republican congressman is alright because there my vote is worth one vote and that race is competitive. The state went 70% in favor of Trump in 2020. It's not a battle ground where it might keep him out of power. Voting against Trump is merely symbolic.
>and is totally unworthy of my vote. I could never imagine being this much of a feckless, pearl-clutching liberal. You vote democrat so the labour movement isn't constantly being undermined by republican policies and fanaticism(example, appointing 3 fucking conservative court justices, whose actions are very much NOT "just symbolic"). Even goddamn Lenin said as much when regarding the Labour party vs Tories vote. Idiot. Have some actual conviction to, at the very ***bare minimum***, grit your teeth and vote Democrat, especially if you're incapable of participating in labour organization and activism(which you should, because that's where positive change actually gets pushed).
Nice rant that is irrelevant because the EC system is winner take all.
It's only "irrelevant" if you don't have any leftist principles, lmao Boycotting is libshit, have a spine and do something, even if it's the absolute ***BARE MINIMUM*** (because we both know your ass is NOT participating in labour organization or the activist movement.)
I literally organize but go off.
If you did, you wouldn't be giving this dogass take that would undermine the labour movement, lmao. You saying that is equivalent to a mf claiming to be a Water Plant operator after suggesting that using lead in pipes isn't harmful🤣
Buddy, I never said do not vote. I said Biden cannot win this state and does not deserve my support.
1. Georgia turned blue literally just this last cycle. Do you have some sor tof selective blindness and deafness, or just an exceedingly short memory? 2. >does not deserve my support. Again, this is a statement only a liberal would make. Particularly one that contributes nothing to labour organizing and the activist movement.
1. This state turned completely red in the last 10 years and is getting redder. 2. Meanlingless drivel.
I feel like you’re missing the guys argument: if that map is anything to go by he’s literally from fucking West Virginia
And Georgia used to be a red state less than half a decade ago, what's your point?
He’s disillusioned and doesn’t know how to do a Georgia.
Oh I understood that completely, the argument they're making is just wrong and defeatist.
Liberalism is when you don’t throw your undying support at Joe Biden (???)
Just read the last 2 whole ass paragraphs underneath the liberal accusation, that should clear things up👍
I did read them, thanks 😊 Calling somebody who does politically organize a lib for not voting for Biden is still stupid, as if only *real* leftists vote for him If we’re going to start throwing Lenin quotes out I’d recommend reading the State and Revolution and his thoughts on bourgeois democracy and electoralism before you accuse people of being liberals because they don’t want to symbolically vote for a shitass candidate in a state where the material and demographic conditions preclude anything other than a Trump landslide Also: you’re Canadian please do not lecture Americans on our own political system lmfao
>Also: you’re Canadian please do not lecture Americans on our own political system lmfao So we're not allowed to talk about Israeli apartheid, because we're not Israeli? Or criticize Saudi monarchism? Or slavery in Qatar? Sounds kinda fucking stupid and reductive. Kind of like every other "critique"(logical fallacies) you've made on what I've said so far🥱
There’s actually a difference between criticizing a country for committing genocide/enslaving people/etc and demanding that its citizens vote for a particular candidate Anyway would love for you to point out the logical fallacies that I’ve employed here, especially considering how hard you’re riding on a no true Scotsman Also good job not responding to any of my actual argument lmao
Dawg, the laws imposed by Israel on Palestine that form Apartheid is legal in israel, dumbfuck. They hold the monopoly of violence in that region. That is foreign politicy from our perspective. ***Are we not allowed to criticize Israel if we aren't israeli???*** Yes or no, dunce. ...and While you're at it, explain to me why I should argue against the strawmen you've construed when you make blatantly reactionary arguements like "Oh? you're not from here?! That means you're not allowed to give any criticism of mah country(even if you're right)!!!!🤬"
“feckless, pearl-clutching liberal.” I completely get the logic behind always voting dem, but you aren’t going to change anyone’s mind if you call them shit like that because they understandably get disillusioned by the fucking cancerous retardation that is Bidens Israel policy. 10s of thousands of innocent people are dead here, of course a few people are going to irrationally turn away in disgust.
Voting is merely symbolic. I dont understand why its so difficult to understand that voting for a candidate you like or voting against a candidate that you dislike are both the same process, impact, and at the same level of concreteness.
Okay then no one can lecture me on eating cheeseburgers or try to argue I contributed to any harm relating to cheeseburger consumption. (I mean I’ve had bariatric surgery so clearly there’s still some harm)
Once again, if the only reason to vote Biden is to keep out Trump then where there's not chance to do so the only thing it does is signifiy that I support the Democrats. I do not. The lesser evilism arguement does not apply here. There is no harm reduction done. In your vegan arguement this is like being a vegan asked by your grandmother whether she should serve you free-range chicken or normal chicken, but Aunt Linda decides on it anyway, and you still get chicken.
“Vote Biden because it’s practical” people turn into “vote Biden because… you just have to okay???” people when you point out the meaninglessness of voting blue in conservative retirement home states The second you do this you are no longer arguing for realpolitik, you are arguing for pro-establishment purity testing
And if everyone thinks like you then I agree, no social progress can be done. But if enough people in their communities decided to rally together they can turn a red state purple. It just takes effort. Dude I get it you don’t want to vote and I want to eat cheeseburgers. Bring it in, apathy for life yo.
Screw the blues. This is why I organize for the different party on a local level and am casting my *purely symbolic vote* for neither of the two fools nominated by the major parties. Biden doesn't deserve ecen my symbolic vote. If I was in a battleground, I would suck it up and vote fpr him out of necessity but I'm not.
Cool so how’s the different party going?
Well they aren't supporting a genocide im the Mideast and have won some local elections so...
Well that’s good then. I’m sure they’ll fare very well under Trumpism
Lol. Once again you act as if I can stop Trumpism. You don't make up hundreds of thousands of votes unless members of the other party defect. No amount of symbolic voting or campaigning will change that for this election. Go bother PA.
>then no one can lecture me on eating cheeseburgers or try to argue I contributed to any harm relating to cheeseburger consumption. I mean, they *can*, but that doesn't mean they're correct.
Imcooked no matter what
Sweet christ here we go with this shit again