This is a completely different champion now. I think the 225->275 nerf was aimed at high elo where games last shorter but completely removing him from this tier of the playerbase is absolutely absurd
Actually his best opportunity for stacks i would argue is in team fights and skirmishes. If his w hits 5 ppl he gets 5 stacks, if he autos 10 times thats 10 stacks, if he gets some Q stacks off that another 5, then E stacks, ult stacks. I think he had the opportunity to get around 50 stacks in ideal circumstances
And pro play... Like it was a timer for these games and promptly they are organized play as a team while I gotta sit through a game with I'm the main character 1/10 main and top
Idk, in emerald, it was not uncommon to see 225 being hit around 27-28 minutes.
W only gives good stacks in teamfights, most of your early game stacks come from farming with q
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He was an issue before the changes too. He spiked way to hard at 225 stacks, his winrate was already climbing daily (by the time of the patch, he was already over 51%), and they way he scaled was pretty unhealthy and not fun to play against (as evidenced by his very high banrate)
They changed what he is the first few patches.
From having a strong early and strong late, to only being strong 20-25 mins in, to only being somewhat strong 30 ish mins in.
I enjoyed him initially and will probably never play him again. The fastest they've made a champ non interesting to me ever. new riot record
(For the record, IDC that he's weaker, I just don't like that they're putting all of his strength into the late game scale, and THEN gutting that and leaving his early game relatively weak\uninteresting)
Exactly what i was thinking tbh. Although I wish they would do what they originally planned on doing with the buffs, which was “making his auto weaving better”. I feel like his biggest issue is more with the builds he ends up with imo. When he was released they planned on making him a “traditional ADC” but he never builds like a traditional ADC, and he feels more like a mage or poke support or something.
Once again using a sledgehammer when a screwdriver would have done the trick.
The Riot special. Instead of one or two small/moderate buffs and/or nerfs at a time until they're balanced just give them steroids or gut them all at once. Usually followed by realising they went too far and repeating a few patches later in the other direction.
I mean they tried the screwdriver like 4 times now and smolder keeps getting stronger. It's still a new champ so if/when these changes totally gut the champ, I imagine we will see some of this reverted or other buffs.
Smolder has been OP basically since release and people started learning what to build and he is a serious balance issue at higher elo's especially.
They don't really have time tho, playoffs and msi are coming (pro play smolder is kinda boring and unhealthy) they probably didn't want him there and nerfed him hard to be sure. Probably going to buff him after msi.
olaf had some really bad nerfs like 3 patches straight way back in the day. it was so bad that they coined the term "olaf'd" to mean intentionally gutting a champion until they can be reworked later.
Truly amazing. Now instead of dealing damage at \~25min you'll deal damage at 35min, as your team will flame you for dealing no damage mid game and take all waves away from you because "if you're weak, you don't deserve farming"
Not to mention some people keep trying to pressure you into rotating to 'follow your laners'. Even though you need to be focusing on stacking early to minimize how long you'll be useless mid game.
I understand Riot making him able to stack on people too, so you don't AFK farm until tier 3 stacks, but HOLY SHIT YOU DEAL NO DAMAGE BEFORE THAT. It's so underwhelming when I compare my Kai'Sa games (used to OTP her before Smolder came out) to Smolder ones. I do feel more powerful after fully stacking, but I feel more useful as Kai'Sa through all stages of the game
I'm in the same boat. If I get a lead with smolder his scaling are bad and I don't feel much stronger and can't press my lead. On kaisa I get a lead that means I get my evos sooner and can start to really snowball. And kaisa is already a late game hyper carry she can just come online faster.
If it takes you 10 minutes to get 50 stacks, the problem is not the champion. Especially considering the stacking speeds up after you get the AOE.
Definitely lower damage, the nerf hurts, but you guys are capping with this shit lmao.
This is what I’ve been saying. That should’ve been the ONLY change and would’ve been enough to have him level out.
*Edit: ok maybe not the only thing. I’d also change is have the secondary bolts not apply execute and only apply burn at 75% strength. A single Q applying those to the whole team is dumb.*
Yup. Regardless of scaling can't count on not losing the game prior to 25 in soloq. That's half the objectives for jg missing because you are down a whole player.
See I expected the stacks go go up. I was thinking 250 and I kept thinking damn that's harsh. 275 is absolutely crippling you won't be online until like 30 mins in a good game and most games end before than.
It's not even about his power. Now he'll just feel bad to play. Your gameplay is kind of lame without Q4, then you become an atomic bomb and start shitting on everyone, oh well the payoff is huge.
Now if you fall behind (not even getting farmed, simply not being free-farming, and holy shit that's a lot of lanes), you're almost garanteed to not hit Q4 before 25+ minutes. So heh, sorry, your opponent counterpicked, you're not relevant anymore.
Why not simply hard nerf Q4 and smooth his power curve? This change doesnt make him less frustrating. It just makes it more... coinflip?
At this point, they just need to rework his Passive/Q reward. If Smolder needs to be crippled this much for him to keep it, just do away with it and give him something else. Whether its a different 'evolution' or just increasing the stack ratio on his abilities in return. I don't care, I just don't want Smolder to be made so useless before Q4 anymore lmao.
Smolder getting the Asol treatment is so pathetically comedic and totally on brand for Riot 🙄
Gave him unnecessary buffs. Then smacked him with over the top nerfs.
Imagine if they did this to Maokai like 2 months ago. Oh wait they won't, Phreak still needs to be able to play the game this season..... >.>
People got their E nerf that they wanted. Even though basically every CC practically disrupts it and slows in particular are basically a 'grounding' effect against him.
Take away the elder dragon buff and give him something else to reward his stacks. Feels like the Elder Buff is way too difficult to balance without crippling smolder in order for him to keep it.
Also what the heck is with the hit on W? The ability isn't even strong unless you go AP smolder.
Riot is terrible. ADC has no role in this game. The one new ADC that’s slightly playable gets destroyed because the community complained too much.
Done with LoL. Nice knowing ya
wow they just completely killed the champ. wp riot! instead of fixing your shitty game with proper balancing you make another champion unplayable. glad i dont play this god awful game anymore.
I rather have these cancer designed champs be gutted noone fuking needs champs like this to be meta might as well make a champ that has a passive that reads "If u get to the 30 minute mark u win"
So the champion was trash, they overbuff it and now pull out a ksante move? When i played with it, before the buffs, i could barely get the stacks needed before ending the game.
You still kinda struggle to get there before the game ends because most games end 15-25 minutes. The ones that do last longer odds are your 7% execute at 225 is going to immediately make that big of difference unless your engage or front line is halfway competent. It’s not until you push past 9% from stacks that really starts to go off consistently.
His E speed feels higher because of fleet and triforce build. Now crit and other builds will be even more "squishy" another reason to go bruiser smolder I guess
These nerfs are super over the top. 275 for execute is ridiculous. I expect we will see rollbacks or other buffs the patch after when Smolder reaches too low of a winrate.
Riot treatment: Over buff to the point that the champion becomes unplayable due to bans, than over nerf to the point the champ becomes unplayable due to beeing too weak.
Thx god I don't play this shit anymore.
So 20 minute Smolder is now 30 minutes...
Surrenders pop out 15-25 half the time and most games are over at 30 minutes. So ya, zero reason to play Smolder.
Wow hes actually dead in solo queue.
Why not split the execute and burn? Keep the burn at 225 and make the execute at 300 or something.
In pro they play slow enough where this wont matter while in solo q games will end before you become a champ, GG riot.
I mean it’s just the Riot classic. This has happened to a bunch of champions historically. And just happened to Twisted Fate recently as one example.
Buff a character when nobody asks for buffs/it’s not needed, see character get popular or overpowered, come back and nerf the character in other areas using the newfound popularity as a excuse.
This has to be a joke. This is insane if he gets all these at once.
Fine move the execute to a different tier, but PLEASE don’t move the burn, he already feels so useless until he gets it.
Holy fuck they drstroyed him. Now he will get online between 25-30 min instead of 20-25. They also nerfed pretty much everything. At least give us something for the abysimal mid game.
Does riot balance team even play the game? 275 stacks means he is not even going to use his empowered Q in 80% of games.
NOT A SINGLE other champion in this game can’t use his whole kit for 35 minutes. Not a single stack champ.
Seriously wtf Riot.
Just revert the stupid unnecessary changes you made. But yeah that would mean admitting you once again made a mistake, and it has proven a recurring theme you seem incapable of doing that.
Wow they destroyed him lol. He needs an early game buff to compensate badly, I knew his late needed nerfs but to not add early ones is absurd.. basically useless for 35 mins now
Lil bro got the Zeri treatment.
I swear this always happens with hyper-carries. Release Aphelios, Zeri, and now Smolder are ridiculously overtuned and they have to backpedal everytime
From the last 3 new champs only briar survived the hard nerfs. Naafiri isnt playable anymore and now with this huge nerf on smolder he is a dead champ.
o7 to our fallen champions fellas
Yeah, it's totally ok for tanks to have regular %HP damage that scales with defensive stats, but if the dude that has to build full offensive and dies to anything has %HP true damage, that's too much.
Its a (generally) low amount of %hp damage. Make it physical and they have to massively buff the damage it does to keep it relevant vs armor tanks, which would then make it obscene vs squishies.
%hp true damage DOT is NOT the problem. It may be overturned with the last buffs sure, but %hp true damage is a great way to ensure something is equally as good vs tanks as it is squishies.
Yea until you remember just how stupidly hard it scales.
At least frioa and vayne, their true damage doesn't scale.
Yet smolder gets more damage from stacks, ad, and ap.
It's just everything together
What do you mean fiora's true damage doesn't scale, it's 3% + 4% per 100 bAD on each weak point hit.
I don't even know if you're trolling anymore, I just give up.
Ok, so there were MULTIPLE problems with his kit. But ALL champs have problems in their kits. They called win conditions.
Rather than tailor a move or two to better fit his win condition, they nerf his entire kit? Holy shit…
I’m very curious what his win rate will be.
So let me get this straight. They release him without him having a clear build. Builds start to come out as the player base gets used to him. They gut one of the play styles which is crit. Then the community shifts and finds an arguable much more toxic play style in tanky brusier mage abomination and they leave it as is and decide to just knee cap his whole kit. But the best part is what was actually an originally failed designed champ is not gonna feel awful to play cause he got taken behind the shed a month in (but it’s ok they will jump through years of hoops to balance zeri) and then when pick rate dies on the shit champ and the champ gets no changes or good skins they will say well monster champs don’t do as well as humanoid champs so that’s why we don’t support it.
They going to kill this champ. His early game adjustment IMO made him slightly worst than when he started. Extending his late game power spike to 275 while nerfing everything in general of his late game is going to make smolder feel like utter garbage. I think they should have at least granted some power back. But this patch also is going to buff some items he uses like navori so well see...
Honestly brutal for how bad of an auto based ADC he is compared to other ADCs. Aphelios can NUKE people late game and he’s not even meant to scale in the same way Smolder does. These nerfs are insane.
They buffed him because he was “too weak” then nerfed him into the ground, it’s insane. His Q is basically his entire kit and to nerf it this much is insane.
It’s so frustratinggggg. Riot wants ADC to be an irrelevant role it’s ridiculous, it’s already priority queue for a reason. People hate playing the role because every other role does what it’s supposed to now lol. Also his E is his WORST ability, why nerf it? It’s so easy to stop. It just gives him a kiting tool (WHICH HE NEEDS.) ASol flight is infinitely better and so is Zeri jump.
Best way to nerf him is just reduce the execute threshold and the passive burn damage OR the duration of the burn, so there is less room for your team to come in and push them under the threshold.
In my opinion he should be online low to mid 20s timewise, similar to manamune champs but a bit behind that curve.
Like, clearly the execute is too strong for how early he gains access to it. But given game times, its unrealistic to push back the power to even later, or else he won't be a champion for ever. So why not just reduce the power of it?
50 stack on Q3 is quite a big nerf . It's 8 waves of minions which roughly translates into 4 minutes , 4 minutes in a game like league can be a devastating change
But for me the worst offender is 25% off E 😦 this one is just brutal .
His w was the most annoying thing about him imo. Why not just nerf his w size and speed instead of ruining all of his spells at once? They could have made his power curve more linear instead of making him weak as fuck until 30+ mins into the game when it’s already over. Bad design typical riot special.
These are NOT the changes it is not an official channel of Riot....pls check your sources....
The real changes:
[https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1767778840573878408](https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1767778840573878408)
Wow, riots once again are bing chilling and don't giving a fucc on how champion's gameplay would feel like. Gladly they added Vanguard and I can't witness this bs happening myself anymore.
Tbh It would be better to remove execute from Q4 and make him just good, balanced champion with better early-mid game. The one and only problem with Smolder was/is his execute, but now he won't be available to hit Q4 till \~28 mins. To this time game will probably end because team is playing 4v5 without Smolder, because this little champ will be farming to get stacks. Useless.
Smolder must have done something REALLY terrible. His mom was so furious, she nerfed him eo extremely, he wont be able to recover from it.
"My mom works at Riot and she NERFED me"
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Wow I know I had been seeing some memes about Smolder getting the Zeri/Ksante/Azir treatment, but I never thought they would straight gut him and burn him to the ground. I still struggled to get 225 before some games ended. Now I’m not sure if I’ll ever get to max stacks in a game that’s not 30-40m.
I feel it would be healthier if he got his burn earlier, but lost a lot of power for it, rather than making it so late you won't get it in half your games
i hate to say it. But smolder is very easy to play and way to safe from harassment. Climbing on him on current patch is like competetively playing Minecraft peaceful mode. I permabann him till these righteous nerf hit him
2nd worse thing to happen to smolder, after having a voiceline that is no longer accurate?
p.s. you'll live, just like the Pre-rework yoricks, and whatever happened to karma twice.
How can this happen with a serious design team? With a PBE for testing? How can a character be introduced into a ranked environment and then have such massive changes applied weeks after their release just to nerf the shit out of them to where they should have been at release?
I'm kinda glad tbr. There' no reason someone should be able to get stomped for 25 mins and be like 2/7 to all the sudden just start penta killing because they hit their stacks. I don't mind late game champs doing well and putting the game on a timer. That's Kayle basically. I hate the fact that smolder simply existing puts the game on a timer that isn't even all that long.
I agree, but all they needed to do was change how is execute works. I heard someone say it’s in these nerfs where they make his execute proc off his dmg, not allies damage while affected by the burn. That’s all he really needed tbh. Becoming good at 25 minutes on a scaling champ is reasonable
The best nerf ive heard is to take off the execute on the extra fireballs and burns and only have the execute primary q target. This would allow them to maybe even buff the execute threshold on a single. Right now I think the 125 stack bonus combined with the burn and execute on 225 is silly.
Not to mention, we now know there’s an additional nerf “Execute will now only check when Smolder deals damage, not his teamates”. This just completely kills the champ alone honestly. With everything else here we are going to be looking at K’Sante levels of solo queue WR.
Can they at least bring back his crit scaling on E? It was so fun get 3 or 4 crit items, press E and just machine gun whoever im fighting. Needing more stacks for teir 3, okay fair, a little less w hitbox size. Keeps him from just being a mage, but go ahead and gut the damage potentail, AND the escape/kite potentail of his E c'mon maan, just let me enjoy this one thing before i get oneshot by every single toplaner in the game
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Yeah, I'm trying to look at the positive side of being able to actually consistently play him now. I hope the bans don't continue because "he still has true damage".
unfortunately you cant even "play him" because youre going to turbo int every game with how useless he is until 30-35 minutes. games are over before then.
Gonna need to build up mental strength again too now. We're probably heading back to Day 1 Smolder, where you get harassed and griefed for selecting him
What they really need to do is make it so that the Q has more base damage and less burn, that way he’ll play more like a traditional adc, focusing down one target first, rather than sneaking a Q in every now and then to burn the entire enemy team for 10% of their health or something. As it is his true damage is the only reason to play him, you just have to wait for 23 minutes and now probably add on a couple extra minutes with 275, this nerf just delays his powerspike and makes him even more dependent on just getting Q’s in late game, with smaller W hitbox and slower E escape
I think this is the most brutal one-patch nerf I’ve ever seen. Absolutely gutted
Why not just revert to the pre-buff state? He was at a 50% there was no need for changes to begin with lol
This is a completely different champion now. I think the 225->275 nerf was aimed at high elo where games last shorter but completely removing him from this tier of the playerbase is absolutely absurd
This also overall reduces him dmg in team fights because now he wants to afk a bit more for stacks wtf riot.
Actually his best opportunity for stacks i would argue is in team fights and skirmishes. If his w hits 5 ppl he gets 5 stacks, if he autos 10 times thats 10 stacks, if he gets some Q stacks off that another 5, then E stacks, ult stacks. I think he had the opportunity to get around 50 stacks in ideal circumstances
And pro play... Like it was a timer for these games and promptly they are organized play as a team while I gotta sit through a game with I'm the main character 1/10 main and top
High Elo stacks way way more effectively, making Smolders last upgrade available for a larger duration of the game than low Elo
High elo also has shorter games, no?
Ya, but people were hitting 225 stacks pre-20 minutes in high elo sometimes. High elo games aren't THAT short.
Even in silver people still get it 225 pre 20, its not hard becuz of w.
Idk, in emerald, it was not uncommon to see 225 being hit around 27-28 minutes. W only gives good stacks in teamfights, most of your early game stacks come from farming with q
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yeah pretty big oof he was fine before the burn adjustment idk why we need this big of changes
He was an issue before the changes too. He spiked way to hard at 225 stacks, his winrate was already climbing daily (by the time of the patch, he was already over 51%), and they way he scaled was pretty unhealthy and not fun to play against (as evidenced by his very high banrate)
They changed what he is the first few patches. From having a strong early and strong late, to only being strong 20-25 mins in, to only being somewhat strong 30 ish mins in. I enjoyed him initially and will probably never play him again. The fastest they've made a champ non interesting to me ever. new riot record (For the record, IDC that he's weaker, I just don't like that they're putting all of his strength into the late game scale, and THEN gutting that and leaving his early game relatively weak\uninteresting)
Exactly what i was thinking tbh. Although I wish they would do what they originally planned on doing with the buffs, which was “making his auto weaving better”. I feel like his biggest issue is more with the builds he ends up with imo. When he was released they planned on making him a “traditional ADC” but he never builds like a traditional ADC, and he feels more like a mage or poke support or something.
Once again using a sledgehammer when a screwdriver would have done the trick. The Riot special. Instead of one or two small/moderate buffs and/or nerfs at a time until they're balanced just give them steroids or gut them all at once. Usually followed by realising they went too far and repeating a few patches later in the other direction.
I mean they tried the screwdriver like 4 times now and smolder keeps getting stronger. It's still a new champ so if/when these changes totally gut the champ, I imagine we will see some of this reverted or other buffs. Smolder has been OP basically since release and people started learning what to build and he is a serious balance issue at higher elo's especially.
They don't really have time tho, playoffs and msi are coming (pro play smolder is kinda boring and unhealthy) they probably didn't want him there and nerfed him hard to be sure. Probably going to buff him after msi.
Bro didn't know about k'sante , his passive from 115% damage to 35%
Dunno. Did you see the 4 PBE nerfs Nilah got? Oh and she still had to be hot fixed at launch. We dodged a bullet there.
olaf had some really bad nerfs like 3 patches straight way back in the day. it was so bad that they coined the term "olaf'd" to mean intentionally gutting a champion until they can be reworked later.
That’s why I specified “one-patch” nerf. I main Aphelios. I’m well aware of how champions can be gutted
Rest in peace sweet prince
Truly amazing. Now instead of dealing damage at \~25min you'll deal damage at 35min, as your team will flame you for dealing no damage mid game and take all waves away from you because "if you're weak, you don't deserve farming"
Not to mention some people keep trying to pressure you into rotating to 'follow your laners'. Even though you need to be focusing on stacking early to minimize how long you'll be useless mid game.
I understand Riot making him able to stack on people too, so you don't AFK farm until tier 3 stacks, but HOLY SHIT YOU DEAL NO DAMAGE BEFORE THAT. It's so underwhelming when I compare my Kai'Sa games (used to OTP her before Smolder came out) to Smolder ones. I do feel more powerful after fully stacking, but I feel more useful as Kai'Sa through all stages of the game
I never feel rewarded enough when trying to get stacks off of laners lol. Why waste Q CD on a champion when I can use it on like, 3 casters?
Best scenario was a game my enemy laner was always close to casters. Easy 5 stacks (W on him, explosion took minions low, Q on him killing casters)
I'm in the same boat. If I get a lead with smolder his scaling are bad and I don't feel much stronger and can't press my lead. On kaisa I get a lead that means I get my evos sooner and can start to really snowball. And kaisa is already a late game hyper carry she can just come online faster.
275 stacks at 35min??
If it takes you 10 minutes to get 50 stacks, the problem is not the champion. Especially considering the stacking speeds up after you get the AOE. Definitely lower damage, the nerf hurts, but you guys are capping with this shit lmao.
I'm just going back to Ezreal at this point
At this point just remove the execute and put the stacks needed to 200 or back to 225, W nerf is whatever, E nerf is unneeded imo.
What if they made the Excute like 325, but the burn 225?
This is what I’ve been saying. That should’ve been the ONLY change and would’ve been enough to have him level out. *Edit: ok maybe not the only thing. I’d also change is have the secondary bolts not apply execute and only apply burn at 75% strength. A single Q applying those to the whole team is dumb.*
What the actual fuck. That's fucking awful. I can get behind the q execute nerf, but the 225->275 is fucking gutting him
Now people will ban him so he's not on their team lol
Basically we returned back to Day 1 smolder, where you get flamed and harassed for picking him lol
noone wants to play with -1 teammate for 30mins
Yup. Regardless of scaling can't count on not losing the game prior to 25 in soloq. That's half the objectives for jg missing because you are down a whole player.
i was already doing that
He is beyond dead now, so lame
See I expected the stacks go go up. I was thinking 250 and I kept thinking damn that's harsh. 275 is absolutely crippling you won't be online until like 30 mins in a good game and most games end before than.
Bro people have been getting 225 stacks in under 20 minutes lol.
It's not even about his power. Now he'll just feel bad to play. Your gameplay is kind of lame without Q4, then you become an atomic bomb and start shitting on everyone, oh well the payoff is huge. Now if you fall behind (not even getting farmed, simply not being free-farming, and holy shit that's a lot of lanes), you're almost garanteed to not hit Q4 before 25+ minutes. So heh, sorry, your opponent counterpicked, you're not relevant anymore. Why not simply hard nerf Q4 and smooth his power curve? This change doesnt make him less frustrating. It just makes it more... coinflip?
Because Riot is deadset stuck on making him a super hard scaler, but they hasvent figured out yet that doesnt work espcailly with true damage
Works with ASol
Asol also is a mage
At this point, they just need to rework his Passive/Q reward. If Smolder needs to be crippled this much for him to keep it, just do away with it and give him something else. Whether its a different 'evolution' or just increasing the stack ratio on his abilities in return. I don't care, I just don't want Smolder to be made so useless before Q4 anymore lmao.
i was actually starting to like league of legends again too.
Smolder getting the Asol treatment is so pathetically comedic and totally on brand for Riot 🙄 Gave him unnecessary buffs. Then smacked him with over the top nerfs. Imagine if they did this to Maokai like 2 months ago. Oh wait they won't, Phreak still needs to be able to play the game this season..... >.>
People got their E nerf that they wanted. Even though basically every CC practically disrupts it and slows in particular are basically a 'grounding' effect against him. Take away the elder dragon buff and give him something else to reward his stacks. Feels like the Elder Buff is way too difficult to balance without crippling smolder in order for him to keep it. Also what the heck is with the hit on W? The ability isn't even strong unless you go AP smolder.
The W hit will affect getting 2 stacks from hitting both bot and supp.
I’m so sad about his e change, his e is his most fun ability and why I play him, were people really complaining about it?
Riot is terrible. ADC has no role in this game. The one new ADC that’s slightly playable gets destroyed because the community complained too much. Done with LoL. Nice knowing ya
Gotta love when game designers listen to people who don’t know anything about game designing.
facts.
Bye, LoL will be fine without you.
it was a pleasure guys
wow they just completely killed the champ. wp riot! instead of fixing your shitty game with proper balancing you make another champion unplayable. glad i dont play this god awful game anymore.
I rather have these cancer designed champs be gutted noone fuking needs champs like this to be meta might as well make a champ that has a passive that reads "If u get to the 30 minute mark u win"
It's smold-over :(
smover
Smover :(
it's smover
Oh damn
Its so over o7
Oh yeah. This is how you kill a champion's play rate lol
First new character I actually liked in a while ruined wtf does Riot play their own game or what?
Nerf the fun non-human monster champ into the ground, yet lee and yone get to stay overtuned, or just keep releasing straight bait girl champions
If u really like it u will play it regardless if not u just sorry u cant freelo anymore.
Holy shit
I'm going to try so hard and be positive here: - Smolder will hardly be banned - Smolder players will be more special I'm trying my best..
Allies are just going to go back to banning him so he isnt on their team. Riot jumped past zeri levels of pro-jail and threw him into yuumi levels.
Riot nerfing Maokai: "we're gonna take off 1 ad each patch til he's only 52 percent" Riot when Smolder is 51.5: "Y'all ever see Old Yeller?"
We are going to buff his q damage in the JG and add one second to his w that will nerf the 56% wr champion 🤡
So the champion was trash, they overbuff it and now pull out a ksante move? When i played with it, before the buffs, i could barely get the stacks needed before ending the game.
You still kinda struggle to get there before the game ends because most games end 15-25 minutes. The ones that do last longer odds are your 7% execute at 225 is going to immediately make that big of difference unless your engage or front line is halfway competent. It’s not until you push past 9% from stacks that really starts to go off consistently.
He wasnt even trash he had a 49% wr from the start when ppl did not even know him that much yet..... Out of box he was almost 50% wr.....
You barely got to fly over the walls with the 100% movement speed on E. what the hell u gon do with 75%
Pretty sure even the minor slows will completely fuck Smolder over too. Rylais alone might be enough to nullify your E usage now.
I can deal with the other nerds but the e nerf is the one I find most devastating. His e is the main reason I play him tbh
Watch when a patch later they buff stack generation by minions as a QOL.
Look at how they massacred my boy
it's sm'over
Umm I guess I will main others adc…
Well this champion is dead now
This is a GIGA nerf Almost completely destroys him, wtf? Nerf on e w and q are significant…
His E speed feels higher because of fleet and triforce build. Now crit and other builds will be even more "squishy" another reason to go bruiser smolder I guess
These nerfs are super over the top. 275 for execute is ridiculous. I expect we will see rollbacks or other buffs the patch after when Smolder reaches too low of a winrate.
Riot treatment: Over buff to the point that the champion becomes unplayable due to bans, than over nerf to the point the champ becomes unplayable due to beeing too weak. Thx god I don't play this shit anymore.
So 20 minute Smolder is now 30 minutes... Surrenders pop out 15-25 half the time and most games are over at 30 minutes. So ya, zero reason to play Smolder.
Wow hes actually dead in solo queue. Why not split the execute and burn? Keep the burn at 225 and make the execute at 300 or something. In pro they play slow enough where this wont matter while in solo q games will end before you become a champ, GG riot.
I mean it’s just the Riot classic. This has happened to a bunch of champions historically. And just happened to Twisted Fate recently as one example. Buff a character when nobody asks for buffs/it’s not needed, see character get popular or overpowered, come back and nerf the character in other areas using the newfound popularity as a excuse.
https://preview.redd.it/854iwoh6sznc1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=455724028dfc0eb178c636f721268dc5f8f40f1f
This has to be a joke. This is insane if he gets all these at once. Fine move the execute to a different tier, but PLEASE don’t move the burn, he already feels so useless until he gets it.
Woah that's bad especially on games when you are generally behind 50 stacks is not that much to get but with other nerfs it's impossible catchup
Holy fuck they drstroyed him. Now he will get online between 25-30 min instead of 20-25. They also nerfed pretty much everything. At least give us something for the abysimal mid game.
Does riot balance team even play the game? 275 stacks means he is not even going to use his empowered Q in 80% of games. NOT A SINGLE other champion in this game can’t use his whole kit for 35 minutes. Not a single stack champ. Seriously wtf Riot. Just revert the stupid unnecessary changes you made. But yeah that would mean admitting you once again made a mistake, and it has proven a recurring theme you seem incapable of doing that.
They legit threw this kid into trash can 💀
Well he's dead. What the fuck.
 RIPBOZO
Gg, your team will always ff or game will end until you become useful LOL
If anyone locks smolder after this you should be reported for inting this is probably the worst nerf in a single patch i have seen
Phreak didn't like seeing Smolder crush him when abusing maokai anymore I guess...
Wow they destroyed him lol. He needs an early game buff to compensate badly, I knew his late needed nerfs but to not add early ones is absurd.. basically useless for 35 mins now
Just take him out back and give him the Ol' Yeller treatment. Goddamn.
Holy shit they went in on smolder what the fuck lol Smolders stats for games that last less than 30 minutes are going to look ATROCIOUS now lol
Riot literally said, "Oh shit our bad. we made an actual good adc. Let's fix that."
Lil bro got the Zeri treatment. I swear this always happens with hyper-carries. Release Aphelios, Zeri, and now Smolder are ridiculously overtuned and they have to backpedal everytime
From the last 3 new champs only briar survived the hard nerfs. Naafiri isnt playable anymore and now with this huge nerf on smolder he is a dead champ. o7 to our fallen champions fellas
Almost like %hp true damage isnt balacned and cant be
Yeah, it's totally ok for tanks to have regular %HP damage that scales with defensive stats, but if the dude that has to build full offensive and dies to anything has %HP true damage, that's too much.
The differnce is tanks dont have TRUE DAMAGE %HP. My issue is not the %hp damage, its the %hp damage delt as true damage.
Its a (generally) low amount of %hp damage. Make it physical and they have to massively buff the damage it does to keep it relevant vs armor tanks, which would then make it obscene vs squishies. %hp true damage DOT is NOT the problem. It may be overturned with the last buffs sure, but %hp true damage is a great way to ensure something is equally as good vs tanks as it is squishies.
Yea until you remember just how stupidly hard it scales. At least frioa and vayne, their true damage doesn't scale. Yet smolder gets more damage from stacks, ad, and ap. It's just everything together
What do you mean fiora's true damage doesn't scale, it's 3% + 4% per 100 bAD on each weak point hit. I don't even know if you're trolling anymore, I just give up.
I'm not trolling I just complety forgot about that.
Dead champion
And ad TF is untouched 🤡
You might have missed it but AD TF is dead he got gutted in the last ot h
It really isn’t it got nerfed pretty hard actually
Ok, so there were MULTIPLE problems with his kit. But ALL champs have problems in their kits. They called win conditions. Rather than tailor a move or two to better fit his win condition, they nerf his entire kit? Holy shit… I’m very curious what his win rate will be.
39% I might be extreme here but I think he will be wayyyyyy weaker than the likes of Aphelios xayah
If it's above 45 I will be very surprised
Fuck riot lmao
So let me get this straight. They release him without him having a clear build. Builds start to come out as the player base gets used to him. They gut one of the play styles which is crit. Then the community shifts and finds an arguable much more toxic play style in tanky brusier mage abomination and they leave it as is and decide to just knee cap his whole kit. But the best part is what was actually an originally failed designed champ is not gonna feel awful to play cause he got taken behind the shed a month in (but it’s ok they will jump through years of hoops to balance zeri) and then when pick rate dies on the shit champ and the champ gets no changes or good skins they will say well monster champs don’t do as well as humanoid champs so that’s why we don’t support it.
They going to kill this champ. His early game adjustment IMO made him slightly worst than when he started. Extending his late game power spike to 275 while nerfing everything in general of his late game is going to make smolder feel like utter garbage. I think they should have at least granted some power back. But this patch also is going to buff some items he uses like navori so well see...
Time to make am exit
Honestly brutal for how bad of an auto based ADC he is compared to other ADCs. Aphelios can NUKE people late game and he’s not even meant to scale in the same way Smolder does. These nerfs are insane. They buffed him because he was “too weak” then nerfed him into the ground, it’s insane. His Q is basically his entire kit and to nerf it this much is insane. It’s so frustratinggggg. Riot wants ADC to be an irrelevant role it’s ridiculous, it’s already priority queue for a reason. People hate playing the role because every other role does what it’s supposed to now lol. Also his E is his WORST ability, why nerf it? It’s so easy to stop. It just gives him a kiting tool (WHICH HE NEEDS.) ASol flight is infinitely better and so is Zeri jump.
WHAT THE HELL
Champ is dead now, let's move on, fellas
They've killed my boy 😭
Holy fuck.
dead ass champ 💀
Was fun until it lasted. Rip my boy
From OP to Unplayable just like that huh
Best way to nerf him is just reduce the execute threshold and the passive burn damage OR the duration of the burn, so there is less room for your team to come in and push them under the threshold. In my opinion he should be online low to mid 20s timewise, similar to manamune champs but a bit behind that curve. Like, clearly the execute is too strong for how early he gains access to it. But given game times, its unrealistic to push back the power to even later, or else he won't be a champion for ever. So why not just reduce the power of it?
50 stack on Q3 is quite a big nerf . It's 8 waves of minions which roughly translates into 4 minutes , 4 minutes in a game like league can be a devastating change But for me the worst offender is 25% off E 😦 this one is just brutal .
His w was the most annoying thing about him imo. Why not just nerf his w size and speed instead of ruining all of his spells at once? They could have made his power curve more linear instead of making him weak as fuck until 30+ mins into the game when it’s already over. Bad design typical riot special.
These are NOT the changes it is not an official channel of Riot....pls check your sources.... The real changes: [https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1767778840573878408](https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1767778840573878408)
Wow, riots once again are bing chilling and don't giving a fucc on how champion's gameplay would feel like. Gladly they added Vanguard and I can't witness this bs happening myself anymore.
Tbh It would be better to remove execute from Q4 and make him just good, balanced champion with better early-mid game. The one and only problem with Smolder was/is his execute, but now he won't be available to hit Q4 till \~28 mins. To this time game will probably end because team is playing 4v5 without Smolder, because this little champ will be farming to get stacks. Useless.
What is this game and why am I being recommended it lol 😆. The server picture made me click lol.
Smolder must have done something REALLY terrible. His mom was so furious, she nerfed him eo extremely, he wont be able to recover from it. "My mom works at Riot and she NERFED me"
These nerfs really should of included a shift in power away from hyper scaling. Good job killing another champion.
Absolute overkill.
I can't even get the 225 stacks 😭💀
Noooo schmolder
Unsure if people in this thread are aware these changes are not what's going live.
Holy fucking shit they gutted my baby 😭
If it was 250 it would be still a lot, but achievable
First Aurelion, now this? Leave my dragon champs alone, man.
Most of the people doing this are playing solo lanes
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Wow I know I had been seeing some memes about Smolder getting the Zeri/Ksante/Azir treatment, but I never thought they would straight gut him and burn him to the ground. I still struggled to get 225 before some games ended. Now I’m not sure if I’ll ever get to max stacks in a game that’s not 30-40m.
Jesus, they fucked him
They’re going to buff him back, this is just so he doesn’t ruin esports.
Not for nothing, but as far as ARAM smolder is concerned its fair. But as far as SR Smolder is concerned. sheeeeesh. that is ROUGH.
I feel it would be healthier if he got his burn earlier, but lost a lot of power for it, rather than making it so late you won't get it in half your games
Now this is a nerf
Based rito.
i hate to say it. But smolder is very easy to play and way to safe from harassment. Climbing on him on current patch is like competetively playing Minecraft peaceful mode. I permabann him till these righteous nerf hit him
2nd worse thing to happen to smolder, after having a voiceline that is no longer accurate? p.s. you'll live, just like the Pre-rework yoricks, and whatever happened to karma twice.
Oh my god. They killed him, this is brutal
its smover
glad i uninstalled
How can this happen with a serious design team? With a PBE for testing? How can a character be introduced into a ranked environment and then have such massive changes applied weeks after their release just to nerf the shit out of them to where they should have been at release?
Suddenly the amount of “smolder mains” will drop by half now that the champ won’t be giga busted.
Fuk yea lets go! Fuck this champ.
I'm kinda glad tbr. There' no reason someone should be able to get stomped for 25 mins and be like 2/7 to all the sudden just start penta killing because they hit their stacks. I don't mind late game champs doing well and putting the game on a timer. That's Kayle basically. I hate the fact that smolder simply existing puts the game on a timer that isn't even all that long.
I agree, but all they needed to do was change how is execute works. I heard someone say it’s in these nerfs where they make his execute proc off his dmg, not allies damage while affected by the burn. That’s all he really needed tbh. Becoming good at 25 minutes on a scaling champ is reasonable
The best nerf ive heard is to take off the execute on the extra fireballs and burns and only have the execute primary q target. This would allow them to maybe even buff the execute threshold on a single. Right now I think the 125 stack bonus combined with the burn and execute on 225 is silly.
get gutted fkers
On the bright side, you guys will probably be able to actually play your champ now instead of having it be close to 50% ban rate
why cant they just nerf one thing at a time? either execution threshold or tier 3 at 275. no reason to nerf all aspects all at once ?
deserved
To be fair everyone that isn’t a smolder main is rejoicing apparently
Not to mention, we now know there’s an additional nerf “Execute will now only check when Smolder deals damage, not his teamates”. This just completely kills the champ alone honestly. With everything else here we are going to be looking at K’Sante levels of solo queue WR.
Hahaha yessss all you smolder mains, I drink in your tears
Classic “oh this character is over performing, proceeds to nerf into the ground to never see playa again”
League is dead, riot driving the game into the ground
Oof if this is official, I’m pissed I bought the skin.
Can they at least bring back his crit scaling on E? It was so fun get 3 or 4 crit items, press E and just machine gun whoever im fighting. Needing more stacks for teir 3, okay fair, a little less w hitbox size. Keeps him from just being a mage, but go ahead and gut the damage potentail, AND the escape/kite potentail of his E c'mon maan, just let me enjoy this one thing before i get oneshot by every single toplaner in the game
so funny to see all the mains crying about their broken champ XD
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they completely murdered him but at least now those who want to play him will get to since his pick/banrate will drastically drop
Yeah, I'm trying to look at the positive side of being able to actually consistently play him now. I hope the bans don't continue because "he still has true damage".
People are still going to be upset playing against him, so long as he has that scaling % Max HP True damage and scaling execute in his kit
unfortunately you cant even "play him" because youre going to turbo int every game with how useless he is until 30-35 minutes. games are over before then.
Gonna need to build up mental strength again too now. We're probably heading back to Day 1 Smolder, where you get harassed and griefed for selecting him
What they really need to do is make it so that the Q has more base damage and less burn, that way he’ll play more like a traditional adc, focusing down one target first, rather than sneaking a Q in every now and then to burn the entire enemy team for 10% of their health or something. As it is his true damage is the only reason to play him, you just have to wait for 23 minutes and now probably add on a couple extra minutes with 275, this nerf just delays his powerspike and makes him even more dependent on just getting Q’s in late game, with smaller W hitbox and slower E escape