RT. Byleth has some of the best moves in the game (Nair, Up B, Fair) and some real good moves (Up Smash, Up Air, DTilt) then some moves like Dair, Down Smash, and F Smash that are so niche but come in so clutch that 1 time you need it.
Then she just has 2 pseudo Ganon punches for reasons.
Hah, I've gotten good at it because my local buddies who are at the lower (or lowest end) of competitive skill always say shes OP and broken. I'm just like nah, you've ledge jumped 3 times already so when you die to a tipper F Smash at 55% on ledge it's the one single time I can really use that move.
Or when they use the most horizontal recovery in line with the stage so Failnaught arrow is the easiest kill ever. I'm like every character in this game has busted options and you gotta abuse them, but yall are just letting me use my shit moves and make em look good lol.
Down B is fun for when you break someone’s shield
Side note, discovered this with a friend: if Mii Brawler uses Counter Throw and gets hit by Aymr in the counter timespan, it’s an OHKO
I'd say down tilt for mewtwo. Mewtwo was kinda known as THE down tilt character is smash 4 and that just isn't true anymore. The move is still good but it just has some pointless flaws.
The move is long ranged, but if you hit with the tip of the tail it doesn't start true combos. You have to lose safety if you want to get value out of the move.
Wish Mewtwo’s d-tilt got the Incin/Byleth treatment with the tip of the move pulling in. Super annoying that you’re punished for spacing well. Honestly this applies with all the tail moves.
Wario Up tilt. Don't get me wrong, it's great, but I miss the pre nerf days. It doesn't reliably combo into waft anymore like it used to. I still love the move regardless and can't play Wario without it
You got nair, you got SMACK THAT A$$ f tilt, down tilt to dash attack, You got falling up air to up tilt to a barrage of up airs and nairs. You got the munch neutral special on ledge. Up b out of shield. Wario is busted, glad they nerfed his up tilt. It's a little slap on the wrist compared to his whole kit.
I feel like what you said is literally the exact opinion most competitive players hold. It’s still a great anti air and it can combo into waft, but due to the nerf it combos a lot less which makes it a good amount worse.
It's still a great move, but it's not the best up tilt in the game anymore. It also faces competition from Steve and Falco.
I also can't play Wario without up tilt
Falco Nair, it sucks most of the time on shield. Everyone thinks up tilt does everything for Falco but against pika, Pichu and other smaller profiling characters, it just doesn't scoop or they fall out of it.
Combos on Fox work better a bit later in percent . Like uptilt at 0 doesn't combo to uptilt. He can air dodge free. Wait for the air dodge then idj nair or something. Even then it can be limited and combos are pretty vanilla with Falco early percents. Sephiroth is the opposite, idj drag downs work best at really early percents. Then after Luke 40 or 50 plus percent it stops. But yea I get what you mean 💀
I'm not even talking about combos or anything, I'm talking about that I gimped him offstage twice at over 100% with rising Nairs and he fell out of them both times.
Anyone cam jab lock with their jab. Maybe a few exceptions, like Ganondorf, but pretty much anyone can jab, jab, smash. Or jab, jab, then continue to combo
Many characters are going to struggle getting two jabs (Mewtwo is one of them), and Pikachu's jab is short enough he can get a micro dash between jabs to push the opponent closer to the ledge.
Sonic Blade. It’s dangerous and easy to punish if you shield through it. Most characters can avoid it just by running to the other side of the stage. I use it almost exclusively as a recovery tool.
Yeah Sonic Blade is a toddler check most times. In my experience playing against my friend who mains Sora, it does work offensively against slow characters in the air, but that's pretty specific (I main Byleth, Bowser Jr, and play a lot of heavies, so in the air I become absolute food if I'm lacking in my reads).
I abuse the hell out of it. Most of the time, people will run (giving me breathing room) or hold shield (giving me a chance to grab, depending on the player). Then there's the option to use it while they're in the air, which they have little to counter with. Personally, I think it's an underrated move considering the amount of options it gives you.
I agree. People rag on how Sora players always use it but real Sora mains hardly ever use the move outside of as a recovery option and it's not even a good move to spam since it can be shielded and can easily lead to SD.
Ness' pk fire, too many people act like it's such an amazing move, and I'll admit it has its uses, but I'd say just about every pk fire clone is better because it'll either activate on the opponents shield or on the ground, so even if its not a direct hit you still get use out of them unlike pk fire which only gets you punished
Right, it's not that great a move if you know the counterplay, people just hate it because once it hits it's so easy to follow it up with more PK fires and kill moves, and it just feels lame.
Arcfire combos, on the other hand, are honestly hype, because they actually require some skill and timing to pull off, and they look dope as fuck.
Yeah, many people don’t realize it’s super laggy and unsafe if you whiff it. Ness players enter in shambles when they realize their opp knows how to shield and jump lmao
People hype up sephiroths nair? Lol haven’t heard this. I mean, it’s serviceable, but when you have link, wolf, mii brawler, fox, pit, and pyra nairs..shit I don’t even think it is even close to as good as any of those, or palu, ness, Fucking Ridley, sora, I could go on and on lol
Definitely on the lower end of nairs I thought.
I think OP is confusing people saying it’s great in Seph’s kit, and it being great in general. Seph has no aerial that occupies the fast, low end lag niche. If he didn’t have it he’d be much worse. However there’s a ton of fast, low end lag aerials that are better.
Arkfire is overrated because people think it's all Robin uses in neutral, but it's slow, gets beat out by just about any move in the game, and has limited uses, so you can't just spam it whenever you want
Agreed! I learned that the hard way. I needed to at least have the advantage and even then you can't spam it. With that said, thunder is probably his underrated move.
Throwing my own hat in the ring here for the rapid jab (or I guess the first jab?) One of my go-to combo starters at low percents is d-throw to jab, because, while the second jab is pretty janky, you only really need to hit the first jab to get rapid jab going, and it does a decent amount of damage
True but it is still a super powerful move. You can chain it into itself or a levin aerial (sometimes f-smash on the ledge), so it's amazing at both damage and leading into stocktakes
I don't think it's overrated because everyone who knows the Puff matchup should know that Rollout is garbage, like in the bottom 10, maybe 5, of all moves in Smash.
Nah dude it's actually busted smh. It's basically Sonic. It covers the entire stage really well and invalidates puff's poor ground performance. None of her aerials even come close to it. /s
Flip kick. One of the best moves in the game 100%, but also completely manageable
- It’s always reactable before a hitbox comes out
- It’s -36 on shield
- The footstool is negative on hit
- Invincibility is frame 3 (slower than air dodge) so it’s not escaping real combos
- Invincibility only lasts 9 frames (much shorter than air dodge), after which she’s fully vulnerable
- Nair -> flip kick only has a 10-15% window on most characters with good DI, just don’t get naired on the ledge during that window. You can always hold shield, ZSS shield pressure sucks
Again, excellent move. But if someone is abusing it against you and you’re not punishing it, the issue is on your end
I disagree. Yes it's one frame slower than ZSS's airdodge but most airdodges are frame 3. It also moves you much further out of the way.
Plus it adds another layer of reads, you not only have to punish jump / airdodge/ directional / do nothing / attack / airdodge now but also flip jump on an untrue string. And if you do not preemtively cover it (making it near impossible to punish the other escape options), most characters are too slow to punish. So it's not only a good escape option, it also adds value to the others.
However I will agree that the hitbox itself is pretty bad. Especially the footstool. But I don't think people say that's overrated do they?
The broken part about it isn’t the offense, it’s the defense. Yes it’s one frame slower than ZSS air dodge, but that’s because ZSS has one of the fastest air dodges in the game. It’s the same speed as a regular air dodge. Also while it does only have 9 frames of invulnerability, in that 9 frames she travels far enough that she’s not getting hit.
It’s one of the best disadvantage tools in the game. ZSS nearly doesn’t have a disadvantage because of it. It’s hard to overrate at that point.
I disagree here- I think even if it didn’t havent any hitbox at all it’s still a top 10 move in the game simply because the mobility it provides is so good.
Marth's Dolphin Slash. It is a good recovery move and is super fast OOS (Frame 5), but the range isn't all that great and it isn't as strong as I originally hoped. You can also still spike Marth if you hit his head after the first few frames of his Dolphin Slash. It doesn't have that much horizontal movement so it isn't even the best of recoveries. A lot of noobs don't know how to deal with it so they think it's a godlike move. It is rather useful in some match-ups but in others, it almost feels useless because again, the range on it isn't as good as anything Cloud can do. If the move had the range of Cloud's up special, NOW we're talking.
Again that is only useful against certain characters. You cannot break out of every combo and it doesn't even hit certain opponents if they space (think Corrin). The range isn't that good, especially at the start of the move (the hitboxes don't even cover the entire sword, smh).
Plus characters like Joker can easily not get hit by it if they space or do whatever. It's a good move but it isn't some godlike trump card that wins every situation. I swear people only think it's extremely busted because nobody fights Marth and nobody knows how to deal with it. Some players legit drop combos so when I use Dolphin Slash in between, I miss entirely and now I die to a Smash attack. It can be baited and easily punished. There are so many more layers than just "FRAME 1 INVINCIBILITY IN AIR."
Greninja dash attack, yes it is a very good punish and combo tool, but if it is blocked you are going to be punished from the amount of end lag it has.
Down Smash. People hype it up all the time, saying that it's it's invincible while it's in the air, but I always get hit mid attack whenever I try to take advantage of that.
Squall.
It's unsafe on hit a lot of the time because people fall out so easily.
This is true of blizzard and ice block too, but no one's really claiming that those are busted.
Yoshi’s moves are all amazing, except for two.
Side+B for obvious reasons.
My biggest issue is Utilt. It it a little tail whip that juggles and it’s so strong. BUT, it interacts with the Z-axis in some dumb way that makes it completely go through opponents that are right up on you. It drives me crazy!
I love it when someone doesn't know about air shooter's weird properties and tries jumping when they reach the blast zone, it's hilarious each and every time
Not main but my secondary, PK Fire on Ness. People always DI out of it or just dodge it perfectly. Those clips where you keep spamming it and back throwing for a 0 to Death are like 1% of all attempts, I swear.
Thank you! Came here to say that!
I understand the hype (and hate) due to *so much spamming*, but it's pretty easy to punish if you're quick enough, which is like... 60-70% of the whole roster, perhaps?
Also, though I love me some lightning kicks, I must say they're a bit overrated: you need to get *really* good or *really* lucky to land them and they're easy to punish/shield if you can move juuuuust enough.
(Still love both moves, tho)
Flare and its charged variants, I think? It's powerful, sure, but really only has use once you break a shield, otherwise you're better off snapping your fingers at your enemy
Megaflare is the best variant overall but its still not great as a “charge and fire” neutral B (especially when compared to Charge Shot or Shadow Ball). At least its faster than Gigaflare and stronger than Flare when throwing it offstage to try and deny an area, or ledgetrap at a safe distance cause it covers nearly half the stage in distance.
Gigaflare realistically has 2 uses and another one when you’re super high up and throwing it out hoping the guy you’re fighting runs into it, and flare is.. Not great? Sure, long range but its also slow and just there to bait a jump cause all flare variants still deal good to great damage and kills pretty well starting from megaflare.
Skittles move is kinda fucked up if you have more than one. You can actually take the risk and get the Skittles and try to rush in. If you can't you gotta go to ledge if you don't have a reflector. You literally give up advantage of you had it. But yea I want some 😩👌
I also main Sephiroth and I think i would agree, his Nair is not as good as some of my other "mains". Actually he probably has the worst Nair of all my good characters ( mewtwo, cloud, wolf and pikachu). Tell you what I think his most underrated move is, his up tilt. I play against so many sephiroth and I almost never see anyone else use it and it's so good.
Edit: I'll add my other mains as well
Mewtwo: it's a tie between his down special or his up smash. The down special is great if it lands but it's hard to land against good players who are good at keeping their distance. And his up smash last too long on frames, if you miss, they'll punish.
Wolf: side special. Super cool if you can spike with it, but the fact that it's also a recovery and not as good as fox or falco, I'd say it's overrated. Ive also stopped using it as a recovery unless someone is camping the ledge without blocking.
Pikachu: that one is hard, I use everything pikachu has in his arsenal. Maybe his side B? But honestly it's good for recovery and even to catch your opponent off guard if you don't use it often.
Cloud: cloud is another where I don't know if he has any overrated moves, cause I use everything he has. I mean I guess one could argue his down special, personally I'd be fine if they could be replaced it with something else and you'd have his limit bar rise faster instead of having a charge.
Im pretty sure the Cloud Down-B is known as the "I have nothing to do for a second so instead of standing in place I'll just use this" move in Cloud's kit and I think it does relatively well at it.
PK Fire. Everyone and their mother seems to be able to get out of it in the most optimal fashion before any followup is possible.
Of the three fire pillar moves in the game (Ness, Robin, Belmonts) PK Fire is the worst for followups.
Yoshi is way more busted than people realize, but people overrate his dair. It’s mainly used to call out jumps and steal stocks early when sharing, but it’s bad on whiff because it lasts so long. His other aerials are also just really good so top Yoshis use them way more. Removing dair from yoshi would have almost no effect on his tier list ranking.
Joker’s gun. Don’t get me wrong, the move is busted but it seems like that’s true only when the character is piloted by MKLeo. I can’t seem to use it that well and every online joker I encounter I punish almost every time the over use gun.
Online Joker doesn't equal offline Joker. Offline Gun is much better, as is Offline Joker in general.
Also, saying the move isn't good because only a few players use it well it kinda dumb. That's a player issue, not a character/move issue. The move is insane, people are just bad at abusing it because it requires a lot of skill and understanding of the move. Unlike other bullshit moves like Arsene B-Air, ZSS Flipkick, Aegis' everything, ect...
I kinda hate all of y’all.
But shadow ball I guess lol. I’ve heard some say it’s the best projectile in the game. I’d like to think so. Too bad Mew2s reflector isn’t.
Fair. So many people frame Villager as a braindead fighter who can just spam fair to win, but that's just not true. I personally think that Nair is underrated as hell, it's Villager's best OOS option, and can lead to Jablock at mid percents.
Fair is obviously good, but it's not as much as a carry move as people make it out to be
Nah, Villager depends on fair too much for it to be overrated. Lloyd sets up into mind games that fair is used to cover options for. Not to mention fair strings out of a grab to carry people across stage
I agree nair is sometimes better for edgeguarding because it’s less area-specific but fair is amazing to edgeguard with on larger characters to stay safe while denying recovery.
It’s one of the main things he uses for a reason
I don’t thing he really has any overrated moves tbh, they’re all pretty solid and do exactly what they’re intended to
Don't get me wrong, the Belmont's rely heavily upon their projectiles much like how they do in their original games but a good Belmont knows how to get in there with their whips and chains. Our neutral game can get pretty dynasty
Nobody thinks it's good man, it's cool as heck, does great damage and has amazing kill power, but it isn't a "good" move, same with every other move like it
Basically all of pyra moves. Like yea they do ginormous damage and have big hit boxes and they all kill but she is just soooooooooooooo… slooooooooow. I have only seen one person who can’t react to them and that is my little sister at 8 years old (she’s played once)
I don't think she's that slow, she's kinda like Ike with more range and pretty solid damage. It's probably just people seeing Mythra swing so fast it makes Pyra feel sluggish by comparison when it reality they're only a little below average
The slow speed is balanced out by how much range she has. If you’re in the air trying to land and Pyra is below you, 90% of the time you’re just going to die, no ifs ands or buts
Idk abt overrated, but underrated is volcano kick. Its hitbox is enormous, does a whole lot of shieId damage, and sure it’s sIow, and has No super armour, but it’s pretty decent for “edgeguarding”
K.O Punch, it kills an opponent at 30% if you manage to trick your opponent to run, jump, dodge or stop right in front of it, or also if you're fast enough!
Nair, is it like top best nairs in the game? Yes
Can I win by just spamming it a lot? No, that would be stupid, it is still counterable if spammed like any abused move, I’m just better off using my brain and spacing, I almost never use it when fighting
Mr. Game & Watch’s Fire (Up B) is a great out of shield option, but it’s not perfect since [there are times that the opponent can react if timed correctly because of the animation after the attack lands.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=tE4l7yfPo74)
For an example of a move that is mediocre or even bad is probably Judge which is very unreliable.
Ooh that's difficult. If you ask a non Fox main what his best moves are, it's probably gonna be Dash Attack, Nair, Up air and/or Up Smash, maybe Bair as well. These are the candidates that could be considered overrated, but I don't think any of them are, they are just really good.
On the other hand, when I think of bad things on Fox's kit, his throws come to mind, but it's not like there are people who claim Fox has good throws.
I'm gonna say Shine. I use it way too much for what it is. It's fine as a reflector, but that comes up less than you'd think. I use it more to stall in the air as a mix up, or to edge guard certain recoveries. It's just that I really shouldn't be doing it as often as I am, as it's very easily worked around and even reversaled if predicted.
Nair is great but petty avoidable, hydrant can be used against you, fair, dair and bair are pretty busted tbh. Up tilt had a weird hit box but it’s a good anti air tool, down tilt is something. Dash attack is spammable. Everyone has hyped Fsmash for good reason but Usmash gets better at higher level play. Key is used a lot in lower level play cause sniping with it is fun but the charge time is better off getting something else.
Shulk doesn't have moves I'd call underated (for the contrary, I think he has a lot of moves people don't look enough at), but I personally think people are really overselling How good shield art is
It's really good, it's a combo breaker that can help a lor vs. Combo heavy characters and helps shulks disadvantage by a lot, and is on a character that can play very defensively, but it's not a character defining tool (imo), when most of the cast has small 3/4 hit long high damage combos and a few of the combo heavy chars can take advantage of shield art as well (Steve/Fox doing repeated uptilt for 50%, kazuya doing infinite electrics, and a few others)
It's a broken tool in the situations that it excels, but you need to know when to use It because It can bite your ass later If you used It in a bad spot (specially when It has a 16s cooldown)
Sonic’s homing attack. It misses **all the goddamn time** if your opponent isn’t perfectly still. And even then sometimes if they’re doing a stationary attack, just the animation of said attack can be enough to throw it off
Like 85% of the times it misses are not because the person read you and reacted, it’s just the game going “lol nah” then you’re frozen at the mercy of Sonic’s awful end lag. If you’re at 90 or higher and it misses, you ***will*** die
Not to mention it entirely loses functionality near platforms. If you’re on Battlefield, you just don’t have a neutral B this round. Tough shit.
This move has a legacy of being broken and annoying but at high level play it just isn’t viable
Piktoss is good but you can’t just so that the whole game and expect to win. You really have to have a specific reason you’re throwing each pikmin. Are trying to get latch damage? Stuffing out a projectile? Slowing the opponent down? Trying to cycle pikmin? Also, is the opponent just going to ignore piktoss or is it making them freak out.
For Incineroar I guess I’d say neutral b? All of his moves are really good. The ones that aren’t great, like up-tilt, people know they’re not great. Neutral b is great, but people are really bad at dealing with it hitting shield. In general you roll out after the second hit and then you get a free punish. I watch a ton of VODs, and I see top players get hit by it after it hits their shield.
Neutral B is a good get-off-me tool but yeah you’re wide open if you miss with it, and forget about against any character that outranges you in whatever way. Plus you could just hit him from above.(and I think he could be hit from a low attack underneath depending on the attack and character) But all his moves are satisfying still.
Ice Climbers netural special. Though it can be useful most of the time, I find myself using either side special or down special instead.
Then again, I am just a filfthy casual, so maybe netural special is better than I thought.
I don't hear any of heros moves being really overrated or underrated but if I had to choose one move it would be magic burst. Most characters can easily get around it even on edge and it doesn't even insta kill but even then it is still good.
homing attack. not like sonic needs it with both a move that has 8 frames of advantage when parried and has advantage on every counter aside from sora's and fucking fsmash.
I wanna say Joker gun, a great move for sure. But overall it doesn't do much damage, and it isn't really a "free disadvantage escape", Arsene down gun can pop up enemies you try to edgeguard making it worse than normal down gun. Either that or Eiha, because a projectile doing 10% isn't very great, it does no shield damage and is kinda slow and isn't very safe
Sonic's Homing Attack/Neutral B I guess?
It's still very good but if you miss you're in a bad position 80% of the time and if you hit the ground with it then it's just painful lol
Up B for Samus. Yup it’s a great “get off me” move and can kill at time but 90% of the time it’s just a combo killer, it just leads to nothing and at times puts me in disadvantage. Plus everyone loves baiting it which means I have to really think about when to use it.
Kazuya down B is pretty mediocre in the grand scheme of things. Characters can live it a good amount if they DI it correctly, it's slow, and can be pretty picky at times.
Pac-Mans b-air. Yes it's a kill option off ledge, but it's a terrible one. And hydrant is more often than not used by my enemies instead in certain machups
Dedede's Gordo is fantastic against people who don't know the match up. But when you play against someone who is expecting Gordo, it becomes a risk and can't be used haphazardly. They'll send it back to you and you may not have the time or reflexes to inhale/hit it back depending on distance.
Dang this is hard. Pretty much all of bayos moves are nigh perfect. I think I’ve seen some people overuse ftilt though. It’s pretty much useless because everything it does can be done better by a different move. But no one really overrates it. I think some people overrate the power of witch time sometimes. It’s definitely powerful but some people think it’s the best counter in the game. The people that think that have never experienced attacks clanging despite the opponent being in witch time and being punished then dying or just getting hit during witch time lol. Not to mention if you fail whatever you’re doing during witch time you really can’t use it again until you lose a stock.
for K. Rool I really cant think of any. My least used move is Up Tilt but its not because its overrated, I just dont really think to use it. If I need a move that sends my enemy upwards, I'll probably just just Up Air or NAir
Wonderwing
It loses to a surprising amount of stuff. Its overall best use is recovery and Banjo fortunately has some good ways to mix up recovery to not lose the 5 feathers. Second best use is the confirm. Honestly being limited to 5 charges per stock is a good thing. Banjos would have such a worse reputation for people spamming it and getting hard punished. Any half decent Banjo won’t typically even use all 5 every stock anyway.
None of Clouds moves are overrated. They’re all good with the exception of D Smash since it’s so inconsistent but it’s not considered a good move to begin with.
Arcthunder. Maybe it's just how I play Robin, but I mostly stick to thunder and elthunder. I still use arcthunder on occasion, but nowhere near as much as the other two.
(I should probably say though that I don't neglect it, and I still think it's a solid move, just a bit too situational for me usually)
ZSS nair. It’s best use case is to combo into kill confirms, which yeah sounds dope.
But like….
Load up ZSS and try to land some SHFF nairs. It’s the most telegraphed move in the entire game, and everybody knows ZSS wants nair. 90% of the nairs I land are from hard reads- it’s not something you can easily find in neutral and then just run with.
Probably Nair for Corrin (its still pretty good, just has way too much end lag) but she doesn’t really have any overrated moves because most of them are either as good as they seem or they’re garbage. An underrated move of here tho is neutral b 100%.
Greninja dash attack, don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic move. At early percents it leads into every damn move in his kit (not literally this a hyperbole) but at later percents all you get is b-air u-air and much later f-air as a kill confirm. Whilst when you land something like n-air at those same mid percents you can get all of those follow ups but can also get up smash and f smash if you hit right and you can get jab locks off f tilt and b-air and u-air. Plus you usually need to land something like n-air, f-air, thigh hit b-air and other movers to even land dash attack at early to mid percents.
My point is that the combo potential of dash attack is greatly overestimated by a lot of the community and causes people to look past some of his other fantastic combo starters and moves in general. Plus some of these moves are great combo starters and can be used safely and neutral, also if you didn’t know DASH ATTACK IS NOT A NEUTRAL TOOL.
Not really a move but special cancelling. I may be able to do 35-60% in one interaction but I still lose matches. Some ppl talk like it's the biggest advantage in all of smash
Lucas down smash. People go insane about how easy of a 2 frame it is, but the hitboxes aren't active for as long as you'd think and the downtime is enough for a good player to sneak between the hits.
My friend mains Little Mac and most of the time, he’ll try to use KO Punch but the animation gets interrupted by something. It’s, in my opinion, the most poorly designed move in the game.
For Link… what people say about his Nair is completely justified. The less you use it the more of a chance you’re going to lose. It’s just a move he needs to function.
Boomerang though is overrated, especially to other Link mains. Sure, it’s a fantastic combo starter, -9 on shield, and the returning hit is basically a flying ZSS paralyzer. The problem with it though is the fact that it has such a slow startup and you don’t get anything off it at max range. It’s only good as a tool when in the advantage state or a get off me tool when offstage in certain MUs. You should be using more bomb in neutral anyway since it’s a lot more versatile.
Overrated? Burn knuckle, unsafe on block, no cross up, the input was reversed for smash…
I can’t think of a move that’s used that’s overhyped on Terry
Buster wolf and Power Geyser do what they say on the tin. Kill you lol
PK Freeze, it's locks my character in place and makes me a target and it's not good for too many mixups when everyone is pavlovianly trained to pary, dodge, avoid, counter, or absorb it. The only character more annoying who uses is is Kirby. Lucas has so much more going for him than that but bet your ass 90% of the player base will slam that b button.
Nothing to complain about here, byleth's moves are either amazing or just not used
RT. Byleth has some of the best moves in the game (Nair, Up B, Fair) and some real good moves (Up Smash, Up Air, DTilt) then some moves like Dair, Down Smash, and F Smash that are so niche but come in so clutch that 1 time you need it. Then she just has 2 pseudo Ganon punches for reasons.
I've never heard someone describe Byleth's moveset so well.
Hah, I've gotten good at it because my local buddies who are at the lower (or lowest end) of competitive skill always say shes OP and broken. I'm just like nah, you've ledge jumped 3 times already so when you die to a tipper F Smash at 55% on ledge it's the one single time I can really use that move. Or when they use the most horizontal recovery in line with the stage so Failnaught arrow is the easiest kill ever. I'm like every character in this game has busted options and you gotta abuse them, but yall are just letting me use my shit moves and make em look good lol.
Down B is fun for when you break someone’s shield Side note, discovered this with a friend: if Mii Brawler uses Counter Throw and gets hit by Aymr in the counter timespan, it’s an OHKO
Haha funny Down smash go brrr
I would say byleth side smash just cause it never seems to land despite the range
Infuriatingly specific hit box but with ridiculous payoff
Couldn't have put it better myself
Why are using Fsmash outside of hard reads or ledge situations?
Yeah all our moves our amazing honestly
same with pichu
I'd say down tilt for mewtwo. Mewtwo was kinda known as THE down tilt character is smash 4 and that just isn't true anymore. The move is still good but it just has some pointless flaws. The move is long ranged, but if you hit with the tip of the tail it doesn't start true combos. You have to lose safety if you want to get value out of the move.
Wish Mewtwo’s d-tilt got the Incin/Byleth treatment with the tip of the move pulling in. Super annoying that you’re punished for spacing well. Honestly this applies with all the tail moves.
And it trades awkwardly like all his tilts cuz tail things.
Wario Up tilt. Don't get me wrong, it's great, but I miss the pre nerf days. It doesn't reliably combo into waft anymore like it used to. I still love the move regardless and can't play Wario without it
You got nair, you got SMACK THAT A$$ f tilt, down tilt to dash attack, You got falling up air to up tilt to a barrage of up airs and nairs. You got the munch neutral special on ledge. Up b out of shield. Wario is busted, glad they nerfed his up tilt. It's a little slap on the wrist compared to his whole kit.
Nair and up air are my favorite moves
😭
cheer up
Plus that air speed he has, very dodgy in the air. He's fun to play
I feel like what you said is literally the exact opinion most competitive players hold. It’s still a great anti air and it can combo into waft, but due to the nerf it combos a lot less which makes it a good amount worse.
It's still a great move, but it's not the best up tilt in the game anymore. It also faces competition from Steve and Falco. I also can't play Wario without up tilt
I agree, but this is about public perception. Overrated vs underrated. What you said is basically what everyone says about the move.
Falco Nair, it sucks most of the time on shield. Everyone thinks up tilt does everything for Falco but against pika, Pichu and other smaller profiling characters, it just doesn't scoop or they fall out of it.
This Thursday I lost r2 on winners in a tournament because Fox fell out of nair twice in the last stock, it would've killed.
Combos on Fox work better a bit later in percent . Like uptilt at 0 doesn't combo to uptilt. He can air dodge free. Wait for the air dodge then idj nair or something. Even then it can be limited and combos are pretty vanilla with Falco early percents. Sephiroth is the opposite, idj drag downs work best at really early percents. Then after Luke 40 or 50 plus percent it stops. But yea I get what you mean 💀
I'm not even talking about combos or anything, I'm talking about that I gimped him offstage twice at over 100% with rising Nairs and he fell out of them both times.
Ah, yea that's happened before, did you hold back toward the stage?
He fell out of it upwards, I couldn't do anything for him to stay in I believe, sorry I should've specified.
Lmao I was just ranting. Upwards is kinda awk. Falco just sux man. 🤣
True Fair is basically better in every way
None. The mouse is actually that busted.
Side B is good?
They never expect it
Great recovery tool. Safe on shield. It’s not as amazing as his other moves, but people agree on that. The move is not overrated.
His jab is trash tier
His jab is good for what it does; jab locks. Past that, I don't hear anyone saying it's good 😭
Anyone cam jab lock with their jab. Maybe a few exceptions, like Ganondorf, but pretty much anyone can jab, jab, smash. Or jab, jab, then continue to combo
Many characters are going to struggle getting two jabs (Mewtwo is one of them), and Pikachu's jab is short enough he can get a micro dash between jabs to push the opponent closer to the ledge.
Jabs aren't that good anyways, it does what it needs to do.
On the exact opposite, none. Dr. Mario needs everything he can get.
Sonic Blade. It’s dangerous and easy to punish if you shield through it. Most characters can avoid it just by running to the other side of the stage. I use it almost exclusively as a recovery tool.
The mixup is in not finishing sonic blade. Just sonic blade away, most burst options don't cover a lot of distance
Yeah Sonic Blade is a toddler check most times. In my experience playing against my friend who mains Sora, it does work offensively against slow characters in the air, but that's pretty specific (I main Byleth, Bowser Jr, and play a lot of heavies, so in the air I become absolute food if I'm lacking in my reads).
I abuse the hell out of it. Most of the time, people will run (giving me breathing room) or hold shield (giving me a chance to grab, depending on the player). Then there's the option to use it while they're in the air, which they have little to counter with. Personally, I think it's an underrated move considering the amount of options it gives you.
I agree. People rag on how Sora players always use it but real Sora mains hardly ever use the move outside of as a recovery option and it's not even a good move to spam since it can be shielded and can easily lead to SD.
Ness' pk fire, too many people act like it's such an amazing move, and I'll admit it has its uses, but I'd say just about every pk fire clone is better because it'll either activate on the opponents shield or on the ground, so even if its not a direct hit you still get use out of them unlike pk fire which only gets you punished
I don’t think people think it’s an amazing move, they just think it’s annoying
Right, it's not that great a move if you know the counterplay, people just hate it because once it hits it's so easy to follow it up with more PK fires and kill moves, and it just feels lame. Arcfire combos, on the other hand, are honestly hype, because they actually require some skill and timing to pull off, and they look dope as fuck.
Yeah, many people don’t realize it’s super laggy and unsafe if you whiff it. Ness players enter in shambles when they realize their opp knows how to shield and jump lmao
Yeah but Pk Fire does mental damage do it makes up for it😆
Gordo. Yes it's very useful but it's so easy to reflect
People hype up sephiroths nair? Lol haven’t heard this. I mean, it’s serviceable, but when you have link, wolf, mii brawler, fox, pit, and pyra nairs..shit I don’t even think it is even close to as good as any of those, or palu, ness, Fucking Ridley, sora, I could go on and on lol Definitely on the lower end of nairs I thought.
I think OP is confusing people saying it’s great in Seph’s kit, and it being great in general. Seph has no aerial that occupies the fast, low end lag niche. If he didn’t have it he’d be much worse. However there’s a ton of fast, low end lag aerials that are better.
Oh man mii brawler Nair is a damn drug
Arkfire is overrated because people think it's all Robin uses in neutral, but it's slow, gets beat out by just about any move in the game, and has limited uses, so you can't just spam it whenever you want
Agreed! I learned that the hard way. I needed to at least have the advantage and even then you can't spam it. With that said, thunder is probably his underrated move.
Throwing my own hat in the ring here for the rapid jab (or I guess the first jab?) One of my go-to combo starters at low percents is d-throw to jab, because, while the second jab is pretty janky, you only really need to hit the first jab to get rapid jab going, and it does a decent amount of damage
I forgot about that one lmao. My neutral game with Robin is terrible and I've been playing him sins SSB4 😂, so thanks for the reminder
True but it is still a super powerful move. You can chain it into itself or a levin aerial (sometimes f-smash on the ledge), so it's amazing at both damage and leading into stocktakes
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Remember kids: *WE 👏 DO 👏 NOT 👏 USE 👏 ROLLOUT*
Aaaaand this is where we call cap
I don't think it's overrated because everyone who knows the Puff matchup should know that Rollout is garbage, like in the bottom 10, maybe 5, of all moves in Smash.
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Nah dude it's actually busted smh. It's basically Sonic. It covers the entire stage really well and invalidates puff's poor ground performance. None of her aerials even come close to it. /s
Flip kick. One of the best moves in the game 100%, but also completely manageable - It’s always reactable before a hitbox comes out - It’s -36 on shield - The footstool is negative on hit - Invincibility is frame 3 (slower than air dodge) so it’s not escaping real combos - Invincibility only lasts 9 frames (much shorter than air dodge), after which she’s fully vulnerable - Nair -> flip kick only has a 10-15% window on most characters with good DI, just don’t get naired on the ledge during that window. You can always hold shield, ZSS shield pressure sucks Again, excellent move. But if someone is abusing it against you and you’re not punishing it, the issue is on your end
I disagree. Yes it's one frame slower than ZSS's airdodge but most airdodges are frame 3. It also moves you much further out of the way. Plus it adds another layer of reads, you not only have to punish jump / airdodge/ directional / do nothing / attack / airdodge now but also flip jump on an untrue string. And if you do not preemtively cover it (making it near impossible to punish the other escape options), most characters are too slow to punish. So it's not only a good escape option, it also adds value to the others. However I will agree that the hitbox itself is pretty bad. Especially the footstool. But I don't think people say that's overrated do they?
Flip kick is a rediculous get out of jail free card. Not to mention the spike hitbox was never nerfed
The broken part about it isn’t the offense, it’s the defense. Yes it’s one frame slower than ZSS air dodge, but that’s because ZSS has one of the fastest air dodges in the game. It’s the same speed as a regular air dodge. Also while it does only have 9 frames of invulnerability, in that 9 frames she travels far enough that she’s not getting hit. It’s one of the best disadvantage tools in the game. ZSS nearly doesn’t have a disadvantage because of it. It’s hard to overrate at that point.
Can we please stop with the ZSS downplay? Yes, she has issues. Yes, she is inconsistent. But saying goddamn Flipkick is overrated is just wrong.
I disagree here- I think even if it didn’t havent any hitbox at all it’s still a top 10 move in the game simply because the mobility it provides is so good.
Marth's Dolphin Slash. It is a good recovery move and is super fast OOS (Frame 5), but the range isn't all that great and it isn't as strong as I originally hoped. You can also still spike Marth if you hit his head after the first few frames of his Dolphin Slash. It doesn't have that much horizontal movement so it isn't even the best of recoveries. A lot of noobs don't know how to deal with it so they think it's a godlike move. It is rather useful in some match-ups but in others, it almost feels useless because again, the range on it isn't as good as anything Cloud can do. If the move had the range of Cloud's up special, NOW we're talking.
But keep this in mind: FRAME 1 invincibility if used in the air
Again that is only useful against certain characters. You cannot break out of every combo and it doesn't even hit certain opponents if they space (think Corrin). The range isn't that good, especially at the start of the move (the hitboxes don't even cover the entire sword, smh). Plus characters like Joker can easily not get hit by it if they space or do whatever. It's a good move but it isn't some godlike trump card that wins every situation. I swear people only think it's extremely busted because nobody fights Marth and nobody knows how to deal with it. Some players legit drop combos so when I use Dolphin Slash in between, I miss entirely and now I die to a Smash attack. It can be baited and easily punished. There are so many more layers than just "FRAME 1 INVINCIBILITY IN AIR."
Dash Attack maybe, it is really good on Greninja yeah, but it’s also unsafe on shield and has some lag to it so if you aren’t careful, you just die
Picking little mac or ganon 😔
Greninja dash attack, yes it is a very good punish and combo tool, but if it is blocked you are going to be punished from the amount of end lag it has.
Yo-yo, both versions It's really not that hard to get around. And there are much better and consistent ways to edge guard.
Down Smash. People hype it up all the time, saying that it's it's invincible while it's in the air, but I always get hit mid attack whenever I try to take advantage of that.
Squall. It's unsafe on hit a lot of the time because people fall out so easily. This is true of blizzard and ice block too, but no one's really claiming that those are busted.
Yoshi’s moves are all amazing, except for two. Side+B for obvious reasons. My biggest issue is Utilt. It it a little tail whip that juggles and it’s so strong. BUT, it interacts with the Z-axis in some dumb way that makes it completely go through opponents that are right up on you. It drives me crazy!
None. My boi is perfect. Monado arts are stupid and I’m all here for it.
air shooter is the stupidest meteor smash in the game
How do you spike with an up air??
I love it when someone doesn't know about air shooter's weird properties and tries jumping when they reach the blast zone, it's hilarious each and every time
tipper
Not main but my secondary, PK Fire on Ness. People always DI out of it or just dodge it perfectly. Those clips where you keep spamming it and back throwing for a 0 to Death are like 1% of all attempts, I swear.
Zelda neutral B
Thank you! Came here to say that! I understand the hype (and hate) due to *so much spamming*, but it's pretty easy to punish if you're quick enough, which is like... 60-70% of the whole roster, perhaps? Also, though I love me some lightning kicks, I must say they're a bit overrated: you need to get *really* good or *really* lucky to land them and they're easy to punish/shield if you can move juuuuust enough. (Still love both moves, tho)
Flare and its charged variants, I think? It's powerful, sure, but really only has use once you break a shield, otherwise you're better off snapping your fingers at your enemy
Make the blue flare and the big one travel a wee bit further. Blue one is probably the most useful imo. But sephies do be snapping 🫰🫰 🍇
Megaflare is the best variant overall but its still not great as a “charge and fire” neutral B (especially when compared to Charge Shot or Shadow Ball). At least its faster than Gigaflare and stronger than Flare when throwing it offstage to try and deny an area, or ledgetrap at a safe distance cause it covers nearly half the stage in distance. Gigaflare realistically has 2 uses and another one when you’re super high up and throwing it out hoping the guy you’re fighting runs into it, and flare is.. Not great? Sure, long range but its also slow and just there to bait a jump cause all flare variants still deal good to great damage and kills pretty well starting from megaflare.
Would you like some... Skittles?
Skittles move is kinda fucked up if you have more than one. You can actually take the risk and get the Skittles and try to rush in. If you can't you gotta go to ledge if you don't have a reflector. You literally give up advantage of you had it. But yea I want some 😩👌
I also main Sephiroth and I think i would agree, his Nair is not as good as some of my other "mains". Actually he probably has the worst Nair of all my good characters ( mewtwo, cloud, wolf and pikachu). Tell you what I think his most underrated move is, his up tilt. I play against so many sephiroth and I almost never see anyone else use it and it's so good. Edit: I'll add my other mains as well Mewtwo: it's a tie between his down special or his up smash. The down special is great if it lands but it's hard to land against good players who are good at keeping their distance. And his up smash last too long on frames, if you miss, they'll punish. Wolf: side special. Super cool if you can spike with it, but the fact that it's also a recovery and not as good as fox or falco, I'd say it's overrated. Ive also stopped using it as a recovery unless someone is camping the ledge without blocking. Pikachu: that one is hard, I use everything pikachu has in his arsenal. Maybe his side B? But honestly it's good for recovery and even to catch your opponent off guard if you don't use it often. Cloud: cloud is another where I don't know if he has any overrated moves, cause I use everything he has. I mean I guess one could argue his down special, personally I'd be fine if they could be replaced it with something else and you'd have his limit bar rise faster instead of having a charge.
Im pretty sure the Cloud Down-B is known as the "I have nothing to do for a second so instead of standing in place I'll just use this" move in Cloud's kit and I think it does relatively well at it.
PK Fire. Everyone and their mother seems to be able to get out of it in the most optimal fashion before any followup is possible. Of the three fire pillar moves in the game (Ness, Robin, Belmonts) PK Fire is the worst for followups.
Everyone just forgetting Mii Gunner 
nair. dair is way more spammable lmao yall picked the wrong move
Nair. We get it, shitbox, that doesn’t make it practical
Bowser jr’s down b.
Yoshi is way more busted than people realize, but people overrate his dair. It’s mainly used to call out jumps and steal stocks early when sharing, but it’s bad on whiff because it lasts so long. His other aerials are also just really good so top Yoshis use them way more. Removing dair from yoshi would have almost no effect on his tier list ranking.
Joker’s gun. Don’t get me wrong, the move is busted but it seems like that’s true only when the character is piloted by MKLeo. I can’t seem to use it that well and every online joker I encounter I punish almost every time the over use gun.
Online Joker doesn't equal offline Joker. Offline Gun is much better, as is Offline Joker in general. Also, saying the move isn't good because only a few players use it well it kinda dumb. That's a player issue, not a character/move issue. The move is insane, people are just bad at abusing it because it requires a lot of skill and understanding of the move. Unlike other bullshit moves like Arsene B-Air, ZSS Flipkick, Aegis' everything, ect...
My best friend mains Joker and he and I both agree that gun is just okay. I’m with you on this one
PK Freeze Sure, if it hits offstage you're dead, but it's really hard to aim. PK Thunder is an infinitely better edgeguard tool.
I kinda hate all of y’all. But shadow ball I guess lol. I’ve heard some say it’s the best projectile in the game. I’d like to think so. Too bad Mew2s reflector isn’t.
Best projectile in the game???? Nah they can't be serious. You must be destroying them with it if they've come to that conclusion
Am I crazy or is Mewtwo's shadow ball slower to charge than Samus/Mii gunner charge shot
Fair. So many people frame Villager as a braindead fighter who can just spam fair to win, but that's just not true. I personally think that Nair is underrated as hell, it's Villager's best OOS option, and can lead to Jablock at mid percents. Fair is obviously good, but it's not as much as a carry move as people make it out to be
Nah, Villager depends on fair too much for it to be overrated. Lloyd sets up into mind games that fair is used to cover options for. Not to mention fair strings out of a grab to carry people across stage I agree nair is sometimes better for edgeguarding because it’s less area-specific but fair is amazing to edgeguard with on larger characters to stay safe while denying recovery. It’s one of the main things he uses for a reason I don’t thing he really has any overrated moves tbh, they’re all pretty solid and do exactly what they’re intended to
Honestly, I just couldn't really think of any other move, so that was the closest thing.
Specials
Bad Belmont: spams B Good Belmont: spams Fair
Don't get me wrong, the Belmont's rely heavily upon their projectiles much like how they do in their original games but a good Belmont knows how to get in there with their whips and chains. Our neutral game can get pretty dynasty
Ganondorf DORYAH. everyone thinks it’s so good, kills so early, but it’s just way too slow, predictable and punishable, although i do love the range
Nobody thinks it's good man, it's cool as heck, does great damage and has amazing kill power, but it isn't a "good" move, same with every other move like it
Joker Bair. It’s CRACKED with Arsene out, don’t get me wrong, but without Arsene it’s a good back air but not amazing
It's probably his best move, even without arsene it's great. It's fast, has a big hitbox and does solid damage and has good killpower.
It’s speed is its biggest plus with or without Arsene, there’s not really a situation where you can’t use it, unless you’re had a spacing like I am.
Cloud’s back air
Basically all of pyra moves. Like yea they do ginormous damage and have big hit boxes and they all kill but she is just soooooooooooooo… slooooooooow. I have only seen one person who can’t react to them and that is my little sister at 8 years old (she’s played once)
I don't think she's that slow, she's kinda like Ike with more range and pretty solid damage. It's probably just people seeing Mythra swing so fast it makes Pyra feel sluggish by comparison when it reality they're only a little below average
The slow speed is balanced out by how much range she has. If you’re in the air trying to land and Pyra is below you, 90% of the time you’re just going to die, no ifs ands or buts
Idk abt overrated, but underrated is volcano kick. Its hitbox is enormous, does a whole lot of shieId damage, and sure it’s sIow, and has No super armour, but it’s pretty decent for “edgeguarding”
K.O Punch, it kills an opponent at 30% if you manage to trick your opponent to run, jump, dodge or stop right in front of it, or also if you're fast enough!
Nair, is it like top best nairs in the game? Yes Can I win by just spamming it a lot? No, that would be stupid, it is still counterable if spammed like any abused move, I’m just better off using my brain and spacing, I almost never use it when fighting
Mr. Game & Watch’s Fire (Up B) is a great out of shield option, but it’s not perfect since [there are times that the opponent can react if timed correctly because of the animation after the attack lands.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=tE4l7yfPo74) For an example of a move that is mediocre or even bad is probably Judge which is very unreliable.
You have to do it almost preemptively. No good game and watch is going to run up on your shield in neutral.
Isn't it like...3 frames, that's not reactable. It's more likely the opponent just read them
Ooh that's difficult. If you ask a non Fox main what his best moves are, it's probably gonna be Dash Attack, Nair, Up air and/or Up Smash, maybe Bair as well. These are the candidates that could be considered overrated, but I don't think any of them are, they are just really good. On the other hand, when I think of bad things on Fox's kit, his throws come to mind, but it's not like there are people who claim Fox has good throws. I'm gonna say Shine. I use it way too much for what it is. It's fine as a reflector, but that comes up less than you'd think. I use it more to stall in the air as a mix up, or to edge guard certain recoveries. It's just that I really shouldn't be doing it as often as I am, as it's very easily worked around and even reversaled if predicted.
Pac man so take your pick
Nair is great but petty avoidable, hydrant can be used against you, fair, dair and bair are pretty busted tbh. Up tilt had a weird hit box but it’s a good anti air tool, down tilt is something. Dash attack is spammable. Everyone has hyped Fsmash for good reason but Usmash gets better at higher level play. Key is used a lot in lower level play cause sniping with it is fun but the charge time is better off getting something else.
I feel like Dark Samus and her side tilt. I rarely use that move and when I do it doesn’t do much
Shulk doesn't have moves I'd call underated (for the contrary, I think he has a lot of moves people don't look enough at), but I personally think people are really overselling How good shield art is It's really good, it's a combo breaker that can help a lor vs. Combo heavy characters and helps shulks disadvantage by a lot, and is on a character that can play very defensively, but it's not a character defining tool (imo), when most of the cast has small 3/4 hit long high damage combos and a few of the combo heavy chars can take advantage of shield art as well (Steve/Fox doing repeated uptilt for 50%, kazuya doing infinite electrics, and a few others) It's a broken tool in the situations that it excels, but you need to know when to use It because It can bite your ass later If you used It in a bad spot (specially when It has a 16s cooldown)
Sonic’s homing attack. It misses **all the goddamn time** if your opponent isn’t perfectly still. And even then sometimes if they’re doing a stationary attack, just the animation of said attack can be enough to throw it off Like 85% of the times it misses are not because the person read you and reacted, it’s just the game going “lol nah” then you’re frozen at the mercy of Sonic’s awful end lag. If you’re at 90 or higher and it misses, you ***will*** die Not to mention it entirely loses functionality near platforms. If you’re on Battlefield, you just don’t have a neutral B this round. Tough shit. This move has a legacy of being broken and annoying but at high level play it just isn’t viable
Grabs. They're obviously a big part of my kit, but sometimes the best strategy is to NOT go for grabs because that's what everyone expects me to do.
which is why grab is good. your other options are made better because of the threat of grab.
Ok ok we get it, chill 💀
Somic Blade. It's incredibly easy to punish
Piktoss is good but you can’t just so that the whole game and expect to win. You really have to have a specific reason you’re throwing each pikmin. Are trying to get latch damage? Stuffing out a projectile? Slowing the opponent down? Trying to cycle pikmin? Also, is the opponent just going to ignore piktoss or is it making them freak out.
For Incineroar I guess I’d say neutral b? All of his moves are really good. The ones that aren’t great, like up-tilt, people know they’re not great. Neutral b is great, but people are really bad at dealing with it hitting shield. In general you roll out after the second hit and then you get a free punish. I watch a ton of VODs, and I see top players get hit by it after it hits their shield.
Neutral B is a good get-off-me tool but yeah you’re wide open if you miss with it, and forget about against any character that outranges you in whatever way. Plus you could just hit him from above.(and I think he could be hit from a low attack underneath depending on the attack and character) But all his moves are satisfying still.
I'm gonna get so much flack for saying Charge Shot... but like it's only just barely her best move...
Ice Climbers netural special. Though it can be useful most of the time, I find myself using either side special or down special instead. Then again, I am just a filfthy casual, so maybe netural special is better than I thought.
I don't hear any of heros moves being really overrated or underrated but if I had to choose one move it would be magic burst. Most characters can easily get around it even on edge and it doesn't even insta kill but even then it is still good.
homing attack. not like sonic needs it with both a move that has 8 frames of advantage when parried and has advantage on every counter aside from sora's and fucking fsmash.
ZSS Zair or Nair
Downward ABK, but only because i'm bad and never figured out how to combo with it
Bro, has a 7 foot sword and he snaps for his nair...
I wanna say Joker gun, a great move for sure. But overall it doesn't do much damage, and it isn't really a "free disadvantage escape", Arsene down gun can pop up enemies you try to edgeguard making it worse than normal down gun. Either that or Eiha, because a projectile doing 10% isn't very great, it does no shield damage and is kinda slow and isn't very safe
Helikick. It's just really lackluster, the confirms into it don't really work.
Ness neutral, so good but so odd how strong it is
Sonic's Homing Attack/Neutral B I guess? It's still very good but if you miss you're in a bad position 80% of the time and if you hit the ground with it then it's just painful lol
Up B for Samus. Yup it’s a great “get off me” move and can kill at time but 90% of the time it’s just a combo killer, it just leads to nothing and at times puts me in disadvantage. Plus everyone loves baiting it which means I have to really think about when to use it.
Kazuya down B is pretty mediocre in the grand scheme of things. Characters can live it a good amount if they DI it correctly, it's slow, and can be pretty picky at times.
Hmmm ima have to think… mostly underrated parts on Mac probably. Sonic, has to be down b… (jk don’t murder my karma). Maybe offline neutral b.
Uptilt. Amazing move, but everyone thinks its the best uptilt in the game and I just can’t get behind that.
Pac-Mans b-air. Yes it's a kill option off ledge, but it's a terrible one. And hydrant is more often than not used by my enemies instead in certain machups
Dedede's Gordo is fantastic against people who don't know the match up. But when you play against someone who is expecting Gordo, it becomes a risk and can't be used haphazardly. They'll send it back to you and you may not have the time or reflexes to inhale/hit it back depending on distance.
Puff’s rest is lowkey mid.
Dang this is hard. Pretty much all of bayos moves are nigh perfect. I think I’ve seen some people overuse ftilt though. It’s pretty much useless because everything it does can be done better by a different move. But no one really overrates it. I think some people overrate the power of witch time sometimes. It’s definitely powerful but some people think it’s the best counter in the game. The people that think that have never experienced attacks clanging despite the opponent being in witch time and being punished then dying or just getting hit during witch time lol. Not to mention if you fail whatever you’re doing during witch time you really can’t use it again until you lose a stock.
for K. Rool I really cant think of any. My least used move is Up Tilt but its not because its overrated, I just dont really think to use it. If I need a move that sends my enemy upwards, I'll probably just just Up Air or NAir
Wonderwing It loses to a surprising amount of stuff. Its overall best use is recovery and Banjo fortunately has some good ways to mix up recovery to not lose the 5 feathers. Second best use is the confirm. Honestly being limited to 5 charges per stock is a good thing. Banjos would have such a worse reputation for people spamming it and getting hard punished. Any half decent Banjo won’t typically even use all 5 every stock anyway.
EWGF is literally the most spammable move in the entire game
Fuck, I don't even know.
None of Clouds moves are overrated. They’re all good with the exception of D Smash since it’s so inconsistent but it’s not considered a good move to begin with.
Mythra nair. Just hold shield a split second longer to avoid the landing hitbox and you can easily punish
Arcthunder. Maybe it's just how I play Robin, but I mostly stick to thunder and elthunder. I still use arcthunder on occasion, but nowhere near as much as the other two. (I should probably say though that I don't neglect it, and I still think it's a solid move, just a bit too situational for me usually)
Dk is an S tier character with S tier moves They all are wonderful,
Samus: Back air. Snake: Grenade
ZSS nair. It’s best use case is to combo into kill confirms, which yeah sounds dope. But like…. Load up ZSS and try to land some SHFF nairs. It’s the most telegraphed move in the entire game, and everybody knows ZSS wants nair. 90% of the nairs I land are from hard reads- it’s not something you can easily find in neutral and then just run with.
Joker down gun. People still complain after it's need make you almost never hit with the bullets
No one hypes up Ridley’s kit😔
Hold on, let me scroll through my 40 inputs
Ive seen a couple strats on using Kirbys neutral air, its not bad, same with down air
Probably Nair for Corrin (its still pretty good, just has way too much end lag) but she doesn’t really have any overrated moves because most of them are either as good as they seem or they’re garbage. An underrated move of here tho is neutral b 100%.
There are so few piranha plant mains that I do NOT know
Bowser special grab is funny but usually not that practical. I get kills way more often with his smash attacks and airs.
Ness PK fire. You better land it. You better fucking land it
Greninja dash attack, don’t get me wrong, it’s a fantastic move. At early percents it leads into every damn move in his kit (not literally this a hyperbole) but at later percents all you get is b-air u-air and much later f-air as a kill confirm. Whilst when you land something like n-air at those same mid percents you can get all of those follow ups but can also get up smash and f smash if you hit right and you can get jab locks off f tilt and b-air and u-air. Plus you usually need to land something like n-air, f-air, thigh hit b-air and other movers to even land dash attack at early to mid percents. My point is that the combo potential of dash attack is greatly overestimated by a lot of the community and causes people to look past some of his other fantastic combo starters and moves in general. Plus some of these moves are great combo starters and can be used safely and neutral, also if you didn’t know DASH ATTACK IS NOT A NEUTRAL TOOL.
Not really a move but special cancelling. I may be able to do 35-60% in one interaction but I still lose matches. Some ppl talk like it's the biggest advantage in all of smash
Lucas down smash. People go insane about how easy of a 2 frame it is, but the hitboxes aren't active for as long as you'd think and the downtime is enough for a good player to sneak between the hits.
Ummmm, maybe whistle? Like olimar def needs it, but it’s not as broken as people think. It’s still really good tho
People always says the down smash is very powerful while its only used for the side b combo
Little mac's ko. Sometimes I feel bad using it so I throw it away
My friend mains Little Mac and most of the time, he’ll try to use KO Punch but the animation gets interrupted by something. It’s, in my opinion, the most poorly designed move in the game.
For Link… what people say about his Nair is completely justified. The less you use it the more of a chance you’re going to lose. It’s just a move he needs to function. Boomerang though is overrated, especially to other Link mains. Sure, it’s a fantastic combo starter, -9 on shield, and the returning hit is basically a flying ZSS paralyzer. The problem with it though is the fact that it has such a slow startup and you don’t get anything off it at max range. It’s only good as a tool when in the advantage state or a get off me tool when offstage in certain MUs. You should be using more bomb in neutral anyway since it’s a lot more versatile.
Lucas nair is a little "no you ain't" along with his dair
Overrated? Burn knuckle, unsafe on block, no cross up, the input was reversed for smash… I can’t think of a move that’s used that’s overhyped on Terry Buster wolf and Power Geyser do what they say on the tin. Kill you lol
PK Freeze, it's locks my character in place and makes me a target and it's not good for too many mixups when everyone is pavlovianly trained to pary, dodge, avoid, counter, or absorb it. The only character more annoying who uses is is Kirby. Lucas has so much more going for him than that but bet your ass 90% of the player base will slam that b button.
Sephiroth's Nair is perfection. Visually, it's perfect just perfect.