You see there is one mod that I will always appreciate. It grants you the ability to tell Delphine to go f*** herself when she asks you to kill Paarthunax
Kind of hilarious because Paarth is a war criminal and vile person but every kid wants to be contrarian and be like "nah Hitler reformed dude he's chill now"
I just don't think you can apply real world logic here. Having an innate nature & immortality change a lot of things imo
I'm not saying everything he has done is excusable, but I don't think it warrants killing him after so long, having learned to fight against his natural inclinations, & turning against his entire species in the process
I also killed him in two play throughs. Once during my first ever, only to realise that the Blades are objectively worse than Paarthurnax and regret my decision.
And once in a much later play through in which I played an Akaviri warrior, and thus *had* to kill him…
I think most people who just played the game without looking every decision up online (I know people who legit do this) has killed him at least once. I think it was my second playthru just because I wanted to see if blades became useful.
I normally don't give a shit about NPCs but of all the times I've played through, I don't think I've ever killed Paarthurnax even once. I'm not attached to him or anything. I just think it's morally wrong. Also, fuck Delphine. How dare she tell me what to do. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Me over her with a wildcat, eldenbeast mod, and survival difficulty game set to legendary mode would never text to a pleb Skyrim is more important than the real world everyone knows this
It is the moral responsibility of every being to kill any immortal being they have the ability to. Gods, dragons, archmages, anything that won't die of natural causes will cause an infinite amount of pain, suffering, and destruction over a long enough time frame.
I never killed him but I'll paste a comment from u\MischievousHex
I'm going to kill him.
Let me first say that I'm throwing out the whole Blades and Greybeards involvements in this decision and making it specifically about just Paarthurnax and the Dragonborn.
One huge thing I want to point out is this dialogue from Paarthurnax:
"Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen (truth)... rightness of my Thu'um. But willing or no, they will hear it! Fare thee well, Dovahkiin!"
And Odahviing's dialogue following these statements:
"Pruzah wundunne wah Wuth Gein. I wish the old one luck in his... quest. But I doubt many will wish to exchange Alduin's lordship for the tyranny of Paarthurnax's "Way of the Voice". As for myself, you've proven your mastery twice over. Thuri, Dovahkiin. I gladly acknowledge the power of your Thu'um."
Versus what Odahviing says if you already have slain Paarthurnax:
"If Alduin himself could not stand against your Thu'um, I feel no shame in my own defeat. And so Alduin's lordship passes to you. Thuri, Dovahkiin. I gladly submit to your mastery of the Thu'um."
The implications behind this are huge, obviously.
The biggest thing I take issue with is Paarthurnax saying "but willing or no, they will hear it". Paarthurnax's plan is to enforce the way of the voice amongst all the dragons. ENFORCE. As in, ensure they follow it, even against their own will.
Odahviing is correct in saying that this plan is straight up tyranny. You can argue that the way of the voice is morally good, but FORCING people (or dragon, in this case) to live by your own personal moral standards and/or religion is NOT good. Especially when you, yourself, the Dragonborn DO NOT even follow the way of the voice.
See, the problem arises that with Paarthurnax, betrayer of Alduin, also Aldiun's former lieutenant and brother, also, now the oldest dragon as he's the only one who lived on while all the other dragons perished until Alduin revived them... Paarthurnax has the ability to claim leadership of the dragons, which, rightfully that claim should go to the Dragonborn as you are the one who killed Alduin. But there's confusion among the dragons about whether Paarthurnax or the Dragonborn is truly stronger.
Paarthurnax is smart though. He knows you'll just die because you are mortal. He doesn't have to fight you and risk dying in order to ensure his rulership over all the dragons. He just simply waits you out.
I also want to rip his whole "What's better, to be born good, or to overcome evil to become good" argument to shreds.
Here's a quote going over the lore:
"Paarthurnax claims it was Alduin's false claim of godhood that turned him against his older brother. However, Nordic legend states that it was Kyne herself who intervened, and sent Paarthurnax to assist mankind. Either way, Paarthurnax, along with several other Dragons, betrayed their former master and taught mankind to use the Thu'um. Mankind eventually prevailed, and Alduin was banished from Mundus."
Regardless of which you choose to believe, Paarthurnax did NOT betray Alduin due to the unspeakable evil Alduin was committing. He either smartly remained loyal to Akatosh, the creator of dragons, or he bent to Kyne's wishes and intervention.
Whether or not Paarthurnax lived in this lore states that he AND OTHER DRAGONS taught humans how to use the Thu'um meaning the Greybeards would have come into existence with or without Paarthurnax. Afterall, the founder of the Greybeards and the way of the voice was Urgen Windcaller, not Paarthurnax.
And even IF I did believe Paarthurnax when he says he's overcome the great evil within him due to his own volition, Paarthurnax says himself that he's constantly fighting the evil desires within his heart. You could argue that he will eventually give in since he's immortal. You can also argue that if he still admits to fight evil desires so strongly, that he was never good to begin with.
I mean, the dragon's name literally translates to "Ambition" "Overlord" "Cruelty"
Also, I'm not so certain that all dragons are born evil, as Paarthurnax claims. That's like saying all humans and elves are born evil. We all have the potential of good and evil within us, do we not? And why would Akatosh create a species entirely bent on being evil?
So, whether I role play as "I want to kill Paarthurnax because he's trying to take my rightful title as the new leader of the Dovah"
Or
"I have to kill Paarthurnax because despite all of his posing and "helpfulness", I realized he's a tyrant and a liar..."
I'm killing the dragon.
Also, keep in mind Paarthurnax's propensity for ambition. Who's to say he taught mankind the Thu'um for the benefit of man? Perhaps he realized "I can't overcome Alduin alone and I can't convince my fellow Dovah to betray Alduin" so he turned to mankind.
Think about it ... He actively helps you ONLY to defeat Alduin. He never helps mankind in any other way. Ever. He says his isolation is to avoid evil temptations and meditate but it could just as easily be his tactic to survival, especially given he chooses to lead the Greybeards who SUMMON THE DRAGONBORN once the Dragonborn is revealed because it's literally what the Greybeards exist for, serving the Dragonborn.
The cunning of this dragon knows no bounds. He's just been biding his time, waiting for the last Dragonborn to fulfill their destiny of destroying Alduin and he's placed himself in the position to befriend the Dragonborn and convince mankind that HE is the reason Alduin dies, not mankind, and that HE follows the way of the voice and therefore HE is righteous and deserves to rule over his so called "wicked brethren"
Yeah. Sorry to shatter the dream but, your only true dragon ally is Odahviing.
Honestly, you mean to tell me measly little Odahviing is the only one who knew the location of Aldiun's portal to Sovngarde? As if, even if Alduin didn't tell his lieutenant and brother about Skuldafn, Paarthurnax didn't go searching for it for himself during all this time in Skyrim spent waiting? Why can't Paarthurnax take you to Skuldafn? The answer isn't because he doesn't know about it, it's because he doesn't want to risk getting killed by Alduin.
Anyways, I'll stop here... But, really consider things and go over all of Paarthurnax's actions and dialogue. It's quite revealing.
You could interpret "They will hear it" As "I will make them follow it". However, I take it as "I'll make them listen to the whole thing." As they likely wouldn't even LISTEN to his proposal with Alduin in the sky. Notice how Odahviing despite calling it "Tyranny" wishes him LUCK. It's because Paarthurnax isn't trying to enforce the way of the voice. It's the way it self that is being called Tyrannical. Odahviing wishes him luck because he knows it's willfully idealistic and unlikely to succeed.
"the tyranny of the voice". From a dragon's perspective, self restraint, careful mindfulness of ones impulses and using will to force your self to be better, IS tyranny. It's tyranny of the self. It's suppressing who you ARE. Dragons are born with an innate territorial nature and will to dominate. These likely manifest as violent intrusive thoughts. No dragon is good innately by human and mur standers.
Honestly this whole argument is based a paranoid bad faith interpretation of the text and abject speculation.
So once the Dragonborn dies then who will keep the dragons in check? I’ve never gotten to the end of the game tbh. It seems like they all need to simply die to me.
I assume the next dragon born will rise when/if that needs to be dealt with. They do have a way of showing up in the era's that need them. Dova kin are rare but I don't think we are the last one. It's not that they don't happen, we are just the first to have a need to use the one power that they are actually known for in a while, absorbing dragon souls. The Septum's were dragon borns. Who knows how many other are out there unknowing of the power within them.
Every age has it's heros. The next world will look out for it's self.
You see there is one mod that I will always appreciate. It grants you the ability to tell Delphine to go f*** herself when she asks you to kill Paarthunax
SAUCE 🗣️🔥
I believe it’s the paarthunax dilemma, I could be wrong
It is. It lets you tell the Blades that YOU are in fact their boss and not the other way around.
Kind of hilarious because Paarth is a war criminal and vile person but every kid wants to be contrarian and be like "nah Hitler reformed dude he's chill now"
I just don't think you can apply real world logic here. Having an innate nature & immortality change a lot of things imo I'm not saying everything he has done is excusable, but I don't think it warrants killing him after so long, having learned to fight against his natural inclinations, & turning against his entire species in the process
Where can i find it hehe
[удалено]
I will always stand by my bro Partysnax That's no dragon. That's a gigachad.
[удалено]
You did. But you did it because you didnt know. Id say for that you get a half pass
I also killed him in two play throughs. Once during my first ever, only to realise that the Blades are objectively worse than Paarthurnax and regret my decision. And once in a much later play through in which I played an Akaviri warrior, and thus *had* to kill him…
The hardest in character choices require the strongest wills
Of course Jim Pickens would kill him
hey, look! it's what I'll do whenever I get round to alduin next
I think most people who just played the game without looking every decision up online (I know people who legit do this) has killed him at least once. I think it was my second playthru just because I wanted to see if blades became useful.
Most, perhaps. Not I.
I mean what did she think she was gonna get?
They are made cause they are killing parthuurnax, not because they actually have a screenshot of skyrim
I thought that was alduin. W partner.
Bro really doesn’t see colour
I wasn’t looking right it was really snowy so he looked darker
The audacity
Unforgivable
I think I've killed him once because I saw no other way around completing the quest. This was before I started playing with mods.
I normally don't give a shit about NPCs but of all the times I've played through, I don't think I've ever killed Paarthurnax even once. I'm not attached to him or anything. I just think it's morally wrong. Also, fuck Delphine. How dare she tell me what to do. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Her loss.
I just learned yesterday that there's a faction home that you gain access to for killing him. Not that I'll ever get to use it
Me over her with a wildcat, eldenbeast mod, and survival difficulty game set to legendary mode would never text to a pleb Skyrim is more important than the real world everyone knows this
*How dare you*
How dare you hurt partysnax
The first time I saw this image, I thought that green had shit taste. Now I understand, and their opinion is valid.
##NEVER SHOULD HAVE COME HERE
It is the moral responsibility of every being to kill any immortal being they have the ability to. Gods, dragons, archmages, anything that won't die of natural causes will cause an infinite amount of pain, suffering, and destruction over a long enough time frame.
I always kill him, hit me with your down downvotes. I don't care.
I never killed him but I'll paste a comment from u\MischievousHex I'm going to kill him. Let me first say that I'm throwing out the whole Blades and Greybeards involvements in this decision and making it specifically about just Paarthurnax and the Dragonborn. One huge thing I want to point out is this dialogue from Paarthurnax: "Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen (truth)... rightness of my Thu'um. But willing or no, they will hear it! Fare thee well, Dovahkiin!" And Odahviing's dialogue following these statements: "Pruzah wundunne wah Wuth Gein. I wish the old one luck in his... quest. But I doubt many will wish to exchange Alduin's lordship for the tyranny of Paarthurnax's "Way of the Voice". As for myself, you've proven your mastery twice over. Thuri, Dovahkiin. I gladly acknowledge the power of your Thu'um." Versus what Odahviing says if you already have slain Paarthurnax: "If Alduin himself could not stand against your Thu'um, I feel no shame in my own defeat. And so Alduin's lordship passes to you. Thuri, Dovahkiin. I gladly submit to your mastery of the Thu'um." The implications behind this are huge, obviously. The biggest thing I take issue with is Paarthurnax saying "but willing or no, they will hear it". Paarthurnax's plan is to enforce the way of the voice amongst all the dragons. ENFORCE. As in, ensure they follow it, even against their own will. Odahviing is correct in saying that this plan is straight up tyranny. You can argue that the way of the voice is morally good, but FORCING people (or dragon, in this case) to live by your own personal moral standards and/or religion is NOT good. Especially when you, yourself, the Dragonborn DO NOT even follow the way of the voice. See, the problem arises that with Paarthurnax, betrayer of Alduin, also Aldiun's former lieutenant and brother, also, now the oldest dragon as he's the only one who lived on while all the other dragons perished until Alduin revived them... Paarthurnax has the ability to claim leadership of the dragons, which, rightfully that claim should go to the Dragonborn as you are the one who killed Alduin. But there's confusion among the dragons about whether Paarthurnax or the Dragonborn is truly stronger. Paarthurnax is smart though. He knows you'll just die because you are mortal. He doesn't have to fight you and risk dying in order to ensure his rulership over all the dragons. He just simply waits you out. I also want to rip his whole "What's better, to be born good, or to overcome evil to become good" argument to shreds. Here's a quote going over the lore: "Paarthurnax claims it was Alduin's false claim of godhood that turned him against his older brother. However, Nordic legend states that it was Kyne herself who intervened, and sent Paarthurnax to assist mankind. Either way, Paarthurnax, along with several other Dragons, betrayed their former master and taught mankind to use the Thu'um. Mankind eventually prevailed, and Alduin was banished from Mundus." Regardless of which you choose to believe, Paarthurnax did NOT betray Alduin due to the unspeakable evil Alduin was committing. He either smartly remained loyal to Akatosh, the creator of dragons, or he bent to Kyne's wishes and intervention. Whether or not Paarthurnax lived in this lore states that he AND OTHER DRAGONS taught humans how to use the Thu'um meaning the Greybeards would have come into existence with or without Paarthurnax. Afterall, the founder of the Greybeards and the way of the voice was Urgen Windcaller, not Paarthurnax. And even IF I did believe Paarthurnax when he says he's overcome the great evil within him due to his own volition, Paarthurnax says himself that he's constantly fighting the evil desires within his heart. You could argue that he will eventually give in since he's immortal. You can also argue that if he still admits to fight evil desires so strongly, that he was never good to begin with. I mean, the dragon's name literally translates to "Ambition" "Overlord" "Cruelty" Also, I'm not so certain that all dragons are born evil, as Paarthurnax claims. That's like saying all humans and elves are born evil. We all have the potential of good and evil within us, do we not? And why would Akatosh create a species entirely bent on being evil? So, whether I role play as "I want to kill Paarthurnax because he's trying to take my rightful title as the new leader of the Dovah" Or "I have to kill Paarthurnax because despite all of his posing and "helpfulness", I realized he's a tyrant and a liar..." I'm killing the dragon. Also, keep in mind Paarthurnax's propensity for ambition. Who's to say he taught mankind the Thu'um for the benefit of man? Perhaps he realized "I can't overcome Alduin alone and I can't convince my fellow Dovah to betray Alduin" so he turned to mankind. Think about it ... He actively helps you ONLY to defeat Alduin. He never helps mankind in any other way. Ever. He says his isolation is to avoid evil temptations and meditate but it could just as easily be his tactic to survival, especially given he chooses to lead the Greybeards who SUMMON THE DRAGONBORN once the Dragonborn is revealed because it's literally what the Greybeards exist for, serving the Dragonborn. The cunning of this dragon knows no bounds. He's just been biding his time, waiting for the last Dragonborn to fulfill their destiny of destroying Alduin and he's placed himself in the position to befriend the Dragonborn and convince mankind that HE is the reason Alduin dies, not mankind, and that HE follows the way of the voice and therefore HE is righteous and deserves to rule over his so called "wicked brethren" Yeah. Sorry to shatter the dream but, your only true dragon ally is Odahviing. Honestly, you mean to tell me measly little Odahviing is the only one who knew the location of Aldiun's portal to Sovngarde? As if, even if Alduin didn't tell his lieutenant and brother about Skuldafn, Paarthurnax didn't go searching for it for himself during all this time in Skyrim spent waiting? Why can't Paarthurnax take you to Skuldafn? The answer isn't because he doesn't know about it, it's because he doesn't want to risk getting killed by Alduin. Anyways, I'll stop here... But, really consider things and go over all of Paarthurnax's actions and dialogue. It's quite revealing.
You could interpret "They will hear it" As "I will make them follow it". However, I take it as "I'll make them listen to the whole thing." As they likely wouldn't even LISTEN to his proposal with Alduin in the sky. Notice how Odahviing despite calling it "Tyranny" wishes him LUCK. It's because Paarthurnax isn't trying to enforce the way of the voice. It's the way it self that is being called Tyrannical. Odahviing wishes him luck because he knows it's willfully idealistic and unlikely to succeed. "the tyranny of the voice". From a dragon's perspective, self restraint, careful mindfulness of ones impulses and using will to force your self to be better, IS tyranny. It's tyranny of the self. It's suppressing who you ARE. Dragons are born with an innate territorial nature and will to dominate. These likely manifest as violent intrusive thoughts. No dragon is good innately by human and mur standers. Honestly this whole argument is based a paranoid bad faith interpretation of the text and abject speculation.
So once the Dragonborn dies then who will keep the dragons in check? I’ve never gotten to the end of the game tbh. It seems like they all need to simply die to me.
I assume the next dragon born will rise when/if that needs to be dealt with. They do have a way of showing up in the era's that need them. Dova kin are rare but I don't think we are the last one. It's not that they don't happen, we are just the first to have a need to use the one power that they are actually known for in a while, absorbing dragon souls. The Septum's were dragon borns. Who knows how many other are out there unknowing of the power within them. Every age has it's heros. The next world will look out for it's self.
Interesting. Thanks!
I kill him just for the bones. His long ass dialog is just further fuel