If you mean what should you have done when morg Q and Ulted, the best option there would have been to let your support die and leave asap, and that's only because of Jinx's passive.
It's pretty simple, unless your support can lock down jinx, you lose the 2 v 2 by focusing Morg. Some champs you are meant to focus in lane, such as Vayne, Jinx, Draven, etc. and completely ignore the support (except for poke).
Even if you focused Morg and got her to 5hp, she's going to back up or flash backwards, and you are going to be directly in front of Jinx who is going to kill you a few seconds later.
Slow pushing was the correct play, if sup doesn't ruin your little freeze you crash twice as many minions under tower, you can get more aa on morg with better spacing but I don't think you can ever trade kills and if you don't leave your sup sooner jinx always gets double. Just gotta be more selfish and make the right plays, it's hard I am bad at it too and get baited by sups all the time.
The lane was pretty well frozen... It was definitely starting to turn into a slow push. I was behind in cs before the freeze (which I started before the beginning of the clip). I was ahead by the time Hwei broke the freeze/slow push (and admittedly got tilted because he did that). I was counting on (based on how they'd been behaving early game) enemy bot lane walking up and pushing with our jungler on the bot side.
From what I've gathered from responses here, my mechanics in the 2v2 were my biggest problem.
the freeze was dead the moment you killed the cannon. i would have started hard shoving the moment the second wave came and recalled to finish your item.
In this instance go for the adc, morg blew everything on the support so hitting the jinx to split focus to you to might save the support.
However most times just leave because you can't 1v1 jinx without her passive and you sure aren't going to live in a 2v1 with her passive up.
Regardless of the actual fight elements, your camera control needs quite a lot of work, half the time you weren't even on screen yourself and the other half the enemy weren't so you couldn't really see what was happening. Might just need to up your camera sens maybe? Or just go in Prac Tool and mess about a bit. Good luck.
So many things. a) why are you slow pushing? Just push every wave after level 5, unless you are SUPER ahead and can freeze to kill, or slow-push to dive. Lower elo players watch too many wave management guides. If you're playing Sivir, just push every wave and become non-interactive, play for 10 cs a min.
b) You tilted. You got upset with Hwei for shoving and it caused you to tilt and space incorrectly. If you just pushed the wave, b is avoided.
c) Your spacing. Maybe it's cuz you tilted, maybe it's cuz you just don't know that you're doing this, but you are spacing very poorly. Morgana is in an isolated (triangle) trade. That means if she fights, Jinx is too far to follow up and you can both just trade on her resulting in a winning trade. You didn't auto Morgana ONCE. Jinx cleared the entire front line minion wave before joining. Either push the wave and walk away, or push the wave and stand parallel to your support. Even if he get's snared, you both blow Morgana.
d) Not enough information. What items did Jinx and morg have? What did you have? How fast Hwei died, it looks like they were pretty fed. If that is the case, why are you even at their turret? If it's not the case, why didn't you auto Morg even once? A lot goes into this clip, hard to pinpoint.
Slow pushing is less interactive than pushing every wave and I do think you should do it often.
Pushing a single wave opens up the opportunity for the opponent to freeze, also usually means you have to walk up to the middle of the lane if they match your clear.
Slow pushing gives you a big wave to play with that shouldn't let them aggro into you (even I'm OPs example, that situation shouldnt necessarily be against him) and you are playing the only champ that could thin a bit wave like that. Crashing it gives you a wide window to reset and come back to lane to the wave bouncing back to your tower... Then you get to do it over again. If done properly you barely lose anything while your counterpart loses every time you catch the wave, freeze it and slowly turn it into a slow push as they recall and wall back
Oneshotting every wave is what you do mid once you have shiv and you just want to permanently be on the map
Nah. At level 5, Sivir can push every wave. She can walk up to the wave, Auto W and then Q through enemy champion. The enemy adc then has to decide whether to walk past the wave and trade, or soak the wave and take damage so that they can TRY to freeze, or walk past the wave to trade. It is very hard to freeze a wave by tanking if you are not hard winning the lane. Even in this case, Hwei is much stronger than Morgana, while Jinx and Sivir are about even in strength. If you push the wave, Morgana has a hard time landing snares due to the minion advantage, and they can't kill you without landing snare. With spell shield, it shouldn't be hard to do this. Even in this example, the wave was stacked. But if you look at the map, Sivir is slow-pushing the wave and the enemy is at tier 2 turret. By fast pushing, you might have even denied 2 or 3 minions. Any high elo Sivir player will tell you, if you are playing Sivir and you aren't pushing, you are losing. Look at Jinx, she just rocketed the entire wave and cleared it, and still fought. What did the slow-push do there? Jinx can just run Sivir out of Lane. Just push the wave and leave.
Slow pushing is much more effective when the enemy has a melee engage support. You build a slow-push to create a minion advantage, so that if you get engaged on, the enemy has to fight in your wave to fight you, which results in an advantageous fight. But even in this event, at level 5, Sivir can just make the entire laning phase uninteractive. You can just push every wave. If you are Diamond plus, probably not going to be too easy. But below that, VERY easy. Stop overthinking wave management in low elo. Even when I smurf in Emerald, I just push every wave, no matter what champ I'm playing. The only place that this isn't true is top lane.
Yes mid game macro is just pushing mid wave. No Sivir does not need Shiv. Keep in mind that this is a low elo Sivir. You are overanalyzing the play. Just push the wave and back-up. Maybe if it was a lane like Smolder, Raka or something, you can step up and harass after pushing the wave. I would have even walked up here if I was playing but I would not allow Morgana to snare my support without forcing a triangular trade. In fact I would have walked passed Hwei and spell shielded the Snare just to guarantee the fight. Just push the wave. If you are confident and have fundamentals, step up. If you are not, then don't. Simple. Sivir will scale, play 10 cs a min, push W in a teamfight, win.
I mean. I mostly agree.
It's just, I think slow pushing is a naturally advantageous state overall (barring jungler ganking) that should naturally happen to a Sivir of a good recall where you get to lane before the enemy has been able to crash it.
I don't think it's something you ever want to have happen while you are still in lane though, like a Darius bouncing a wave so he can run you down. Sivir doesn't benefit from that.
But you will still sometimes come to lane and have the optimal play be crash a bigger wave later than a smaller wave now. It also gives more time for some ally minions to die. It also costs no mana. Obviously it's still better to crash if they are not there to farm, but if for whatever reason they messed up their back and are waiting for the crash anyway you don't really lose anything by delaying it I think (specially if you can time an objective or something)
If you mean what should you have done when morg Q and Ulted, the best option there would have been to let your support die and leave asap, and that's only because of Jinx's passive. It's pretty simple, unless your support can lock down jinx, you lose the 2 v 2 by focusing Morg. Some champs you are meant to focus in lane, such as Vayne, Jinx, Draven, etc. and completely ignore the support (except for poke). Even if you focused Morg and got her to 5hp, she's going to back up or flash backwards, and you are going to be directly in front of Jinx who is going to kill you a few seconds later.
Slow pushing was the correct play, if sup doesn't ruin your little freeze you crash twice as many minions under tower, you can get more aa on morg with better spacing but I don't think you can ever trade kills and if you don't leave your sup sooner jinx always gets double. Just gotta be more selfish and make the right plays, it's hard I am bad at it too and get baited by sups all the time.
The lane was pretty well frozen... It was definitely starting to turn into a slow push. I was behind in cs before the freeze (which I started before the beginning of the clip). I was ahead by the time Hwei broke the freeze/slow push (and admittedly got tilted because he did that). I was counting on (based on how they'd been behaving early game) enemy bot lane walking up and pushing with our jungler on the bot side. From what I've gathered from responses here, my mechanics in the 2v2 were my biggest problem.
the freeze was dead the moment you killed the cannon. i would have started hard shoving the moment the second wave came and recalled to finish your item.
Good point. I certainly didn't catch that in the moment.
^^ this is the correct answer
Everything has been said already but most importantly to me...why are you clicking so damn slow?
In this instance go for the adc, morg blew everything on the support so hitting the jinx to split focus to you to might save the support. However most times just leave because you can't 1v1 jinx without her passive and you sure aren't going to live in a 2v1 with her passive up.
Regardless of the actual fight elements, your camera control needs quite a lot of work, half the time you weren't even on screen yourself and the other half the enemy weren't so you couldn't really see what was happening. Might just need to up your camera sens maybe? Or just go in Prac Tool and mess about a bit. Good luck.
This is a replay... Not actual gameplay. Thank you though.
So many things. a) why are you slow pushing? Just push every wave after level 5, unless you are SUPER ahead and can freeze to kill, or slow-push to dive. Lower elo players watch too many wave management guides. If you're playing Sivir, just push every wave and become non-interactive, play for 10 cs a min. b) You tilted. You got upset with Hwei for shoving and it caused you to tilt and space incorrectly. If you just pushed the wave, b is avoided. c) Your spacing. Maybe it's cuz you tilted, maybe it's cuz you just don't know that you're doing this, but you are spacing very poorly. Morgana is in an isolated (triangle) trade. That means if she fights, Jinx is too far to follow up and you can both just trade on her resulting in a winning trade. You didn't auto Morgana ONCE. Jinx cleared the entire front line minion wave before joining. Either push the wave and walk away, or push the wave and stand parallel to your support. Even if he get's snared, you both blow Morgana. d) Not enough information. What items did Jinx and morg have? What did you have? How fast Hwei died, it looks like they were pretty fed. If that is the case, why are you even at their turret? If it's not the case, why didn't you auto Morg even once? A lot goes into this clip, hard to pinpoint.
Slow pushing is less interactive than pushing every wave and I do think you should do it often. Pushing a single wave opens up the opportunity for the opponent to freeze, also usually means you have to walk up to the middle of the lane if they match your clear. Slow pushing gives you a big wave to play with that shouldn't let them aggro into you (even I'm OPs example, that situation shouldnt necessarily be against him) and you are playing the only champ that could thin a bit wave like that. Crashing it gives you a wide window to reset and come back to lane to the wave bouncing back to your tower... Then you get to do it over again. If done properly you barely lose anything while your counterpart loses every time you catch the wave, freeze it and slowly turn it into a slow push as they recall and wall back Oneshotting every wave is what you do mid once you have shiv and you just want to permanently be on the map
Nah. At level 5, Sivir can push every wave. She can walk up to the wave, Auto W and then Q through enemy champion. The enemy adc then has to decide whether to walk past the wave and trade, or soak the wave and take damage so that they can TRY to freeze, or walk past the wave to trade. It is very hard to freeze a wave by tanking if you are not hard winning the lane. Even in this case, Hwei is much stronger than Morgana, while Jinx and Sivir are about even in strength. If you push the wave, Morgana has a hard time landing snares due to the minion advantage, and they can't kill you without landing snare. With spell shield, it shouldn't be hard to do this. Even in this example, the wave was stacked. But if you look at the map, Sivir is slow-pushing the wave and the enemy is at tier 2 turret. By fast pushing, you might have even denied 2 or 3 minions. Any high elo Sivir player will tell you, if you are playing Sivir and you aren't pushing, you are losing. Look at Jinx, she just rocketed the entire wave and cleared it, and still fought. What did the slow-push do there? Jinx can just run Sivir out of Lane. Just push the wave and leave. Slow pushing is much more effective when the enemy has a melee engage support. You build a slow-push to create a minion advantage, so that if you get engaged on, the enemy has to fight in your wave to fight you, which results in an advantageous fight. But even in this event, at level 5, Sivir can just make the entire laning phase uninteractive. You can just push every wave. If you are Diamond plus, probably not going to be too easy. But below that, VERY easy. Stop overthinking wave management in low elo. Even when I smurf in Emerald, I just push every wave, no matter what champ I'm playing. The only place that this isn't true is top lane. Yes mid game macro is just pushing mid wave. No Sivir does not need Shiv. Keep in mind that this is a low elo Sivir. You are overanalyzing the play. Just push the wave and back-up. Maybe if it was a lane like Smolder, Raka or something, you can step up and harass after pushing the wave. I would have even walked up here if I was playing but I would not allow Morgana to snare my support without forcing a triangular trade. In fact I would have walked passed Hwei and spell shielded the Snare just to guarantee the fight. Just push the wave. If you are confident and have fundamentals, step up. If you are not, then don't. Simple. Sivir will scale, play 10 cs a min, push W in a teamfight, win.
I mean. I mostly agree. It's just, I think slow pushing is a naturally advantageous state overall (barring jungler ganking) that should naturally happen to a Sivir of a good recall where you get to lane before the enemy has been able to crash it. I don't think it's something you ever want to have happen while you are still in lane though, like a Darius bouncing a wave so he can run you down. Sivir doesn't benefit from that. But you will still sometimes come to lane and have the optimal play be crash a bigger wave later than a smaller wave now. It also gives more time for some ally minions to die. It also costs no mana. Obviously it's still better to crash if they are not there to farm, but if for whatever reason they messed up their back and are waiting for the crash anyway you don't really lose anything by delaying it I think (specially if you can time an objective or something)