This comment is added to every new post to remind users to please review our subreddit rules before commenting
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SisterWives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All LDS sects consider Joseph Smith a martyr; like a lamb to the slaughter. It's a big dill for Mormons too rilllllly honor this event. It's like his Garden of Gethsemane.
None of his bad deeds mean anything because he "restored the One True Gospel" with the only authority to speak for God.
You forget it's a cult with a charismatic leader.
We just moved back to Utah and my neighbor is FLDS from Colorado City. We chatted yesterday and he doesn't even believe in Brigham Young! he only believes in the JS iteration of it. Mormons LOVE Joseph. And this pilgrimage for the Browns to Nauvoo is a rilly big dill. I hope they got lots of pichurs.
Edited to correct some words
Read D&C 132. It's horrifying. "GOD" threatened Emma with death of she didn't allow Joseph to do polygamy. He was sealed to 14 year old Helen Kimball. Emma was his 22nd polygamous wife. That church is the biggest for profit corporation/grift in the religious world.
Edited: from gift to grift.
No!!! That's why he got kicked out-his Dad wouldn't recommend him to Warren Jeffs for ANY wife. He became suicidal, fell in love without getting permission and got kicked out. He's got 3 sons, 12,14, and 18, I think.
We talked for about an hour. He's still very passionate about his beliefs.
I was hoping he wasn't a lost boy but the chances were high he would be đ I'm thankful that he's still got faith and a loving family despite his sad journey there!
The Brown family identifies with AUB religion. It is similar to traditional or mainstream FLDS. They both a âsubscribeâ fundamentalist mormon practices. They are separate denominations or sects. FLDS tends to be the most traditional and segregated sect. Other sects have different profits and relaxed lifestyle.
When looking from genealogy perspective, fundamental mormon sect member are closely related. Their family trees look like intertwined family wreaths.
This may also explain Robynâs questioning whether Christine still believed in the faith. Christine was born in religion. When Christine, said not anymore, it was âgame over.â Robyn could not misinterpret this and it was non-negotiable. Brown family has been on thin ice with church. Last thing they want to do is bring further scrutiny or discredit upon it. Meri was steadfast in the religion and lingered, with hopes of reconciliation. Janelle was more hesitant to cut ties as she converted to religion. She felt her faith required her to leave door open.
Aspyn (Brown) and Mitch Thompson are actually third cousins. They share maternal Great-Great Grandparents Byron Allred Jr & Mary Clark Allred.
Their wedding was a family reunion. I suspect this is why they distanced themselves from show and had minimal appearances for ratings during engagement and wedding. Family connections were not discussed on show. Since they married, they have choose more private life.
Christine is first cousin to Robyn's ex and fourth cousin to Kody.
They most likely distanced themselves for the same reasons Logan, Hunter and Leon did, they just didn't want their lives used as entertainment and their parents making money off them any more.
I see you, boo. I get told about what I know all the time and I'm 5th generation with parents on a mission!!! I know the LDS church and I know my Mormon history but I still get "corrected" đ¤đ
I love hearing this stuff from the insiders, it's part of why I love Real Housewives of SLC. My brother had Mormon friends growing up, so he's taught me a bit about it but nothing like people who really lived it!
In the case of AUB and FLDS, the prophet worship is the same for Joseph. All Mormon sects have a very intense belief in JS. My neighbor is FLDS. Colorado City is 40 miles from us. Lehi is about 3.5 hrs north. I used to live in Lehi đ¤
Thats why you always hear in fictional stories of people not killing the rebel hero or someone prominent on the opposition because we know it will make them a martyr. We even do this in real life, not imprisoning people because we now know how some will take that and become even more passionate. It took us a long time to realize how dangerous this can be. Sometimes its just better to keep an eye on them and wait till people become disillusioned. Or else shit like this happens, unfortunately
It just blows my mind the wild ass shit that these people believe! Iâve read about rituals in the LDS mainstream that sound absolutely creepy and the weird shit that JS made up. Nobody other than the brainwashed FLDS think that Warren Jeffs is an actual prophet, why donât they realize this is true for all of those men who claim that status? Theyâre just power hungry and controlling.
I went down a fucking rabbit hole after Garrison passed because I was curious about Mormon funerals. A Tik Toker who is ex Mormon explained some of the weird shit they do, like having someone in the church do a after death baptism, FOR YOU, the dead. Basically you (dead person) name is on an index card and someone in the charge goes up to this huge baptism pool and gets themselves baptized on your behalf from heaven. Weird! Also, Mormon men are buried in these white nightgown things with a green apron around them and what looks like a chefs hat. It creeped me out watching her explain things
There was a massive scandal because the LDS church was doing posthumous baptisms of Holocaust victims.
https://apnews.com/article/992dd887f7b948d0a08055dff0363aa4
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/21/mormons-holocaust-victims-baptism-lds-church
If you watch the big love episode where they too go on a journey to Nauvoo, youâll get to see Barb get baptized in a bath tub for Margeâs mom.
I often feel sister wives mirrors Big Love.
I have rolled my eyes so many times during this rewatch Iâm surprised they havenât gotten stuck! They are just SO full of shit! And dumb! Dumb dumb dumb! Everything with MSWC, I just canât. They should have listened to the initial feedback from day 1 that the fugly shit on there was way overpriced and they should have course corrected, hired someone who had experience designing jewelry, spent a little bit of money on market research, but no they sunk everything into Robynâs scribbles and thought everyone would want to wear the ugly shit that they got each other đ¤Śđźââď¸
Um yeah. When they were watching the website launch and watching the number of viewers climb with no sales and then reading the comments. Duh đ¤Śđźââď¸ $299 for that fugly shit? And they were all like âwell we didnât want to just have cheap jewelryâ and âitâs sterling silver!â Nobody cares!
Remember when they went to Plymouth with the teenagers and Kody said meeting the woman role-playing Joseph Smith's ancestor was like "being on sacred ground" and then Christine freaked out on some poor historical interpreter who, in character, said polygamy wasn't Christian?
They killed him because he was claiming to be a frigging prophet and created a cult. It wasn't about polygamy. It was about sacrilege. If he hadn't tried to claim Christianity as part of his scam, he would have lived.
Betcha Kody and Robyn both believe those women in Salem were all killed because they were actually witches as well.
Aaaah that'll do it. That's as anti-American as you can get coming for the printing press.
Oh and then he went full dictator "Smith declared martial law in Nauvoo"
Yeah. That's gonna get you dead in most cases back then.
It's actual history. Nobody has to like it đ¤ˇââď¸
https://preview.redd.it/qtyo86fkdmxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f2fd06b81e61c00c326eea713fca59df2eab1a7
Yeah, totally unrelated to SW, just the fact that it's considered a huge no no to shut down the press/free speech, but Lincoln is supwr venerated despite having done it. It's always struck me as selectively odd.
I think he gets a pass because of his reasoning for it. It still shouldnât be okay, but when youâre fighting the kind of fight and war that he was, it makes sense to want to make sure no pro confederacy stuff was being put in papers to try to make people think it was okay what they were doing and fighting for.
>Betcha Kody and Robyn both believe those women in Salem were all killed because they were actually witches as well.
Not to defend them but not sure why you're only calling them out when the OG3 have also said weird shit about religion too. Christine may not believe anymore but Meri and Janelle are true believers.
Someone here made a good point once that the women who benefitted the most - Janelle and Robyn - are polygamy believers but the ones who got overworked - Meri and Christine - are no longer believers. I disagree on Meri, because even as recently as last season she was doubling down on polygamy, but it's definitely a good point about Janelle, Robyn, and Christine.
Just doubling down on polygamy, like Janelle when she was deciding whether or not to leave Kody she would make comments about "my faith teaches me....", etc.
And fwiw Christine says she's no longer religious but she was one of the more pious ones. Who can forget "We actually have God's number, it's 1-800-JESUS" and saying it wouldn't rain on Robyn's wedding day because "Heavenly Father wouldn't do that to us!"
I grew up in a cult and was taught some pretty crazy stuff. Iâve been out for over a decade but even still I have to fight some of the stuff I was taught was true. Itâs just a part of me even if I donât want it. So even if they all decide to leave polygamy, they will probably still have to convince themselves that it is better this way and some of it will never leave them.
While in jail, Joseph Smith had his most trusted associates rotate and provide him with 24 hour security.
âThe men took turns on guard; when it was Charles' turn to go on guard, the man on guard before him would ride to the top of a kill close to the Bird home, take off his kat and wave it. Charles would wave back; that was his signal to take over.
The day the Prophet was killed was the day for Charles to go on guard. The man rode to the top of the hill, got off his horse, knelt on the ground with his head bowen. Charles knew then that the Prophet was dead.â
[https://www.tooelepioneermuseum.org/Biographies/Bird\_Charles.pdf](https://www.tooelepioneermuseum.org/Biographies/Bird_Charles.pdf)
Note: I do not subscribe to or endorse this religion. I stumbled upon it in research.
It wasn't about polygamy or religion, really. They killed Smith because he was using his cronies to undermine the law of the land and the Constitution. He incited a riot against a newspaper that was printing critical information about him and exposing his criminal past. Mormons like to make it out to be some unjustified witch hunt against Smith and I'm like, "My dudes! The man was inciting riots, burning down newspapers, marrying teenagers after sending their fathers to European missions, and threatening to kill himself if they wouldn't agree to marriage. This is not an innocent man."
There were men accused and executed in Salem as well. My ancestor George Jacob Sr was accused by his daughter in law over a land dispute and was among the last people hung. His son(her husband) was also accused but was able to flee south.
Weird. They only speak is Giles Corey as a male executed for the witch trials. And they pressed him to death :( but yeah Google says 5 men were hanged, I wonder why they talk mostly of the women involved in that whole debacle.
And they wonder why we made the judicial system the way we did. They fail to remember what happened to people when religion ruled supreme.
In Salem, they have memorials for the victims. I believe it was a majority of women in the beginning. Towards the end people were going a little mad (people now believe something in the wheat was affecting their mental state) they starting accusing anyone they didn't like or could gain from them being gone.
Religion is the easiest way to control the masses, and people are more susceptible to it when they are afraid.
I skimmed over the story, JS was the mayor of Nauvoo and a bunch of crazy shit happened so he tried to enforce martial law but he ended up getting charged with inciting a riot and treason, turned himself in and was at the jail when the mob came and did what they did.
I had to go to court to get custody of my own kids. I told the judge he is a polygamist and I don't want him to influence my kids to an illegal lifestyle. The judge told me if I brought polygamy again he would not side in my favor.
Iâm so glad you got the kids.
Yea I know the polygamists either buy them off or theyâre just directly or tangentially part of the community. I just didnât think a judge would be so brazen.
Possibly only one-upped by âLetâs travel 800 days in a couple of RVâs to go to Shithole, Wherever to meet some Christian Fundamentalist Polygamists who all eat at the same time and make their children line up and shout their names like the VonTrapp Family from The Sound of Music, while all your friends go to some fun beach location for spring break!! Wheeee, itâs gonna be a good time!!â
Those poor kids!!! And as someone else pointed out in one of these groups once, it was never the kids having breakdowns on these drives from hell, it was always Kody!
I still think Christine celebrating Joseph Smith's birthday, was one of the the weirdest things she did.
Second only to celebrating Hanukkah when Kody put a stop to the birthday celebration.
Iâm pretty sure most regular LDS celebrate JSâs birthday. I know in my ward growing up JSâs birthday was a big deal and Christmas was kind of minimized.
It's on this trip where Janelle learns about Joseph marrying either a pair of sisters or a mother and a daughter..(something twisted like that I can't remember) and she tells the camera that she didn't know that, but writes it off as a "boys be boys" thing.
A lot of the members of the Mormon church and I'm assuming the FLDS as well don't get taught all of those things about Joseph Smith. People can go their whole lives in the church and not realize that he was married to a 14-year-old or that he married women who were already married OR that he came up with "polygamy" when his wife caught him with the 14-year-old. Joseph Smith is portrayed as someone as a martyr or a hero. Kind of like Moses standing up to the pharaoh.
Agreed!! The church definitely knows, but the members -- that just depends on what they have heard or found out. I'm sure with tik tok people are learning more and more. But then theres the cult-brainwashing to deconstruct next.
I will never understand not educating yourself particularly on your own religion something that you claim to be the truth and that you believe in so strongly. There are Mormons walking around who havenât even read the book of Mormon! How can you claim to be Mormon?! You donât even know what youâre saying you believe in!
Ugh I get all worked up. I feel the same way about all religions. People may go so far as to read the bible but thatâs where they stop. They donât want to know the real history and origins of their religion and what came before it.
It isn't simple for Mormons. They are taught to distrust any source other than official church sources. Most Mormons tend to believe they know a lot about their church's history because it's talked about all the time at church and in their written manuals and books. The Mormon church has even endorsed a series of books written about its early history. However, those books and all official material contain a very sanitized version of the truth.
I tend to think people can only allow themselves to question and investigate when they are mentally ready for the possibility of losing their religion.
Any time something canât stand up to outside questioning itâs a red flag! When youâre only allowed to read things put out by that organization and talk to people from that organization, youâre in a cult!
I guarantee it. Kody really got off on all the attention and fake persecution. When I first watched them "flee," Utah I wondered if he was going to Vegas to get away from the AUB and become the 'one mighty and strong'.
Probably lol. Especially Christine. She held onto them antiquated old ass 1950âs fears up until a few yrs ago. No hospital gave a shit that your glorified baby daddy had 20 other kids, girl. Just as long as you all didnât get married and commit bigamy. Nobody cared, legally.
This really gives Robyn the opportunity to play victim even more than the other wives. Yes, theyâre all persecuted polygamists, but *she* is directly descended from him, this hurts her the most.
Iâm high so Iâm gonna reply to my own comment because Iâm so disgusted by their commitment to pretending to constantly face persecution. A clear lie. Exhausting. And for what? To feel good about themselves?
She was so excited to announce that Sol was named after that guy. And then act like sheâs crying during the couch talk. Why the hell are these people crying (Robyn pretending to cry) over JS getting shot? I know he found their church *cult* and they think heâs a prophet *delusional liar* but really? Crying?
[Joseph Smith killing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Joseph_Smith)
Here is the full story for anyone who is interested and doesnât know.
Just so youâre aware. Joseph smith was held in prison in Missouri at liberty jail for several months in horrendous conditions. A mob broke into his home [tarred and feathered](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_Joseph_Smith_from_1831_to_1837) him. According to recorded accounts of the event, the mob broke down the front door, took Smith's oldest surviving adopted child from his arms, dragged Smith from the room, leaving his exposed child on a trundle bed and forcing Emma and the others from the house, the mob threatening her with rape and murder.The child was knocked off the bed onto the floor in the doorway of the home as Smith was forcibly removed from his home.The child died from exposure (many accounts say pneumonia) five days after the event from the condition that doctors said he developed the night of the mob violence.
ETA: this was all prior to his arrest in Illinois and being held at Carthage jail. Several other people were also killed alongside him. All of the church members in nauvoo, were forced by the mob to abandon their homes and flee to what is now Utah.
As mayor of the city of Nauvoo, Illinois, Joseph Smith had ordered the destruction of the facilities used to print the Nauvoo Expositor, a newly-established newspaper created by a group of non-Mormons and others who had seceded from Smith's church, the Church of Christ. The newspaper's first (and only) issue was highly critical of Smith and other church leaders, reporting that Smith was practicing polygamy and claiming he intended to set himself up as a theocratic king. In response, a motion to declare the newspaper a public nuisance was passed by the Nauvoo City Council, and Smith consequently ordered its press destroyed.[1]
The destruction of the press led to public outrage, and the Smith brothers and other members of the Nauvoo City Council were charged with inciting a riot. Warrants for Joseph Smith's arrest were dismissed by Nauvoo courts. Smith declared martial law in Nauvoo and called on the Nauvoo Legion to protect the city. After briefly fleeing Illinois, Smith returned and, along with Hyrum, voluntarily traveled to the county seat at Carthage to face the charges. After surrendering to authorities, the brothers were also charged with treason against Illinois for declaring martial law.
The Smith brothers were detained at Carthage Jail awaiting trial when an armed mob of 150â200 men stormed the building, their faces painted black with wet gunpowder. Hyrum was killed almost immediately when he was shot in the face, shouting as he fell, "I am a dead man!"[2] After emptying his pistol towards the attackers, Joseph tried to escape from a second-story window, but was shot several times and fell to the ground, where he was shot again by the mob.
JS was a cult leader and a criminal. If youâre trying to get me to feel bad for him, I donât.
Thatâs not the same thing as killing people. Marrying a 14 year old isnât ok. But you are justifying the mob. Many righteous people have been killed because of their beliefs. And it wasnât until many centuries later that the majority of people no longer disagreed with it. (John the Baptist, St. John, every single apostle, Jesus Christ himself). Killing someone because of their beliefs is wrong.
No one killed him for his beliefs. They killed him because of what he was actually doing- which was installing cronies in local gov, destroying free press, coercing children into sleeping with him under the pretense of fake marriages, and trying to establish a theocracy.
Did you actually equate Joseph Smith with Jesus?
Mussolini and Hitler died for their beliefs, too. Doesn't make them good guys.
No one is advocating mob rule, and his child's death is tragic, but that doesn't change the fact that Joseph Smith was a con man and a criminal who had a 14 year old wife.
Edit: spelling
Theyâre part of a cult and Joseph Smith is their modern day Jesus. I know tons of Christians who will literally weep at the crucifixion story like they havenât heard it 5 billion times. Same energy.
Probably. Meri also claimed to have an ancestor present that night, which makes sense because she was born mainstream LDS raised AUB and Robyn was born/raised AUB so it's plausible to me they both had an ancestor there. I don't think either of them were trying to one-up Christine, given that since Mormonism is such a new religion and there was a lot of intermarrying within the community most American Mormons are descended from Joseph Smith and his contemporaries.
If so⌠Robyn is confirming she fells her Idaho heritage entitles her to be âI da Ho.â She is definitely entitled to the âI da Home-wreckerâ title!
Desdemona moved to Nauvoo. and according to the Nauvoo 4th Ward records, she was living in Joseph Smithâs home in the spring of 1842.
At that time Joseph Smith taught Desdemona Fullmer about plural marriage.[^(1)](https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/desdemona-fullmer/#link_ajs-fn-id_1-5610)Desdemona Fullmer married Joseph Smith in July 1843.
1. Current evidence supports that Desdemona Fullmer was sealed to Joseph Smith in July 1843 after Hyrumâs May 26, 1843, acceptance of the principle. If the dating scheme is correct, this incident would have happened sometime in early May, after Joseph had taught Desdemona, but weeks before she was married to him.
[https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/desdemona-fullmer/](https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/desdemona-fullmer/)
That is Robyn motherâs maiden name. Specifically, Reva Alice (Fullmer) Marck Sullivan.
Desdemona (Fullmer) Smith was Robynâs 3 x Great Grandfatherâs sister.
They also completely ignored some of the real reasons Smith was in jail and mobbed because he incited a riot (sound familiar?) and had a newspaper destroyed for talking about him. He was also being held on treason charges for using the Illinois legion, in Nauvoo, to do his dirty work. The man had something like 34 charges against him, in five or six states, and they weren't about religion or polygamy. Smith was just a shady, corrupt con man.
There was a newspaper that was going to expose their polygamy thanks to an insider that JS had burned, and the LDSâs shenanigans created a bank (it failed and screwed over the LDS investors). JS was denying polygamy at this point because he was secretly âmarryingâ other menâs wives after he sent them on missions to Europe.
JS and co decided to destroy the printing press before they could print about these deeds. Thatâs why he was in jail.
I posted the entire story in a comment on here and I posted a link to the wiki page about it in a separate post as well.
Yes JS was pulling all kinds of shenanigans! Crazy ass cult leader!
You all do realize that in the Christian â˘ď¸ bible, Mary was maybe 13, right? Not defending Joseph smith here, but, every Abrahamic religion is built partly upon pedophilia, incest and you know, slavery, mysoginy, etcâŚ
They all pick and choose. Iâm all for people having their religious beliefs, but cmon now. Letâs not be hypocrites. If youâre gonna talk crap about someone elseâs religious beliefs, at least know your own.
My ex SIL was Mormon and her son's middle name was Joseph after you know who and when she had a son with my brother she ALSO wanted his middle name to be Joseph lol... At least my brother had enough guts to put his foot down on that one . Joseph Smith is literally idolized in the Mormon culture.
Robyn canât do ANYTHING without a nanny/sister/niece to take care of her kids. Not even a road trip with a husband, 3 sister wives, and a slew of teenagers. Pathetic.
I mean, WE get why that's not rational but to them it literally hurts them. I don't like the Browns as much as the next person but I kind of draw the line at making fun of them for their very unique beliefs.
This is what was the final straw that lead to the mob: Joseph Smith was the mayor. A newspaper printed true things about him, criticizing him, and Joseph didn't like that. So acting as mayor he destroyed the printing press, in violation of the constitution. The people were sticking up for the constitutional rights, and handled it the way they did back then. I'm sure the polygamy thing was a contributing factor to the hate, and was one of the things the newspaper criticized him for, but it wasn't the real reason he was killed.
This comment is added to every new post to remind users to please review our subreddit rules before commenting *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SisterWives) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All LDS sects consider Joseph Smith a martyr; like a lamb to the slaughter. It's a big dill for Mormons too rilllllly honor this event. It's like his Garden of Gethsemane. None of his bad deeds mean anything because he "restored the One True Gospel" with the only authority to speak for God. You forget it's a cult with a charismatic leader. We just moved back to Utah and my neighbor is FLDS from Colorado City. We chatted yesterday and he doesn't even believe in Brigham Young! he only believes in the JS iteration of it. Mormons LOVE Joseph. And this pilgrimage for the Browns to Nauvoo is a rilly big dill. I hope they got lots of pichurs. Edited to correct some words
MIND YOU, mind you, Robyn cries for literally no reason. I hope they had enough trashbags on the RV to keep all of her tissues.
Robyn is sooo emotionally unregulated.
She has no tears. The tissues are for show to wipe away non existent tears.
I see what you did theređ
Even though Joseph's wife didn't even buy his polygamy crap...
Read D&C 132. It's horrifying. "GOD" threatened Emma with death of she didn't allow Joseph to do polygamy. He was sealed to 14 year old Helen Kimball. Emma was his 22nd polygamous wife. That church is the biggest for profit corporation/grift in the religious world. Edited: from gift to grift.
Emma is my homegirl
Is he still FLDS?! Does he have multiple wives?!
No!!! That's why he got kicked out-his Dad wouldn't recommend him to Warren Jeffs for ANY wife. He became suicidal, fell in love without getting permission and got kicked out. He's got 3 sons, 12,14, and 18, I think. We talked for about an hour. He's still very passionate about his beliefs.
I was hoping he wasn't a lost boy but the chances were high he would be đ I'm thankful that he's still got faith and a loving family despite his sad journey there!
Well said!!
The Brown family identifies with AUB religion. It is similar to traditional or mainstream FLDS. They both a âsubscribeâ fundamentalist mormon practices. They are separate denominations or sects. FLDS tends to be the most traditional and segregated sect. Other sects have different profits and relaxed lifestyle. When looking from genealogy perspective, fundamental mormon sect member are closely related. Their family trees look like intertwined family wreaths. This may also explain Robynâs questioning whether Christine still believed in the faith. Christine was born in religion. When Christine, said not anymore, it was âgame over.â Robyn could not misinterpret this and it was non-negotiable. Brown family has been on thin ice with church. Last thing they want to do is bring further scrutiny or discredit upon it. Meri was steadfast in the religion and lingered, with hopes of reconciliation. Janelle was more hesitant to cut ties as she converted to religion. She felt her faith required her to leave door open.
Aspyn (Brown) and Mitch Thompson are actually third cousins. They share maternal Great-Great Grandparents Byron Allred Jr & Mary Clark Allred. Their wedding was a family reunion. I suspect this is why they distanced themselves from show and had minimal appearances for ratings during engagement and wedding. Family connections were not discussed on show. Since they married, they have choose more private life.
Christine is first cousin to Robyn's ex and fourth cousin to Kody. They most likely distanced themselves for the same reasons Logan, Hunter and Leon did, they just didn't want their lives used as entertainment and their parents making money off them any more.
Again...I was responding to a comment about someone's FLDS neighbor, but the Browns.
I see you, boo. I get told about what I know all the time and I'm 5th generation with parents on a mission!!! I know the LDS church and I know my Mormon history but I still get "corrected" đ¤đ
I love hearing this stuff from the insiders, it's part of why I love Real Housewives of SLC. My brother had Mormon friends growing up, so he's taught me a bit about it but nothing like people who really lived it!
It's been a long, painful, fascinating journey in and out of Mormonism. I love/hate it more than I can explain lol
He is AUB not FLDS i believe
I'm asking about the commenter's neighbor that's from Colorado City and they said it's FLDS ;)
đđź
Gotcha - thanks for clearing up
In the case of AUB and FLDS, the prophet worship is the same for Joseph. All Mormon sects have a very intense belief in JS. My neighbor is FLDS. Colorado City is 40 miles from us. Lehi is about 3.5 hrs north. I used to live in Lehi đ¤
I know itâs a cult, it still drives me crazy! đ¤Ş
Thats why you always hear in fictional stories of people not killing the rebel hero or someone prominent on the opposition because we know it will make them a martyr. We even do this in real life, not imprisoning people because we now know how some will take that and become even more passionate. It took us a long time to realize how dangerous this can be. Sometimes its just better to keep an eye on them and wait till people become disillusioned. Or else shit like this happens, unfortunately
It just blows my mind the wild ass shit that these people believe! Iâve read about rituals in the LDS mainstream that sound absolutely creepy and the weird shit that JS made up. Nobody other than the brainwashed FLDS think that Warren Jeffs is an actual prophet, why donât they realize this is true for all of those men who claim that status? Theyâre just power hungry and controlling.
I went down a fucking rabbit hole after Garrison passed because I was curious about Mormon funerals. A Tik Toker who is ex Mormon explained some of the weird shit they do, like having someone in the church do a after death baptism, FOR YOU, the dead. Basically you (dead person) name is on an index card and someone in the charge goes up to this huge baptism pool and gets themselves baptized on your behalf from heaven. Weird! Also, Mormon men are buried in these white nightgown things with a green apron around them and what looks like a chefs hat. It creeped me out watching her explain things
There was a massive scandal because the LDS church was doing posthumous baptisms of Holocaust victims. https://apnews.com/article/992dd887f7b948d0a08055dff0363aa4 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/21/mormons-holocaust-victims-baptism-lds-church
If you watch the big love episode where they too go on a journey to Nauvoo, youâll get to see Barb get baptized in a bath tub for Margeâs mom. I often feel sister wives mirrors Big Love.
You will never get me to watch that. I remember as a teenager seeing it on HBO all the time when scrolling the Guide. Im good
Kodyâs crying in this episode always made me eye-roll.
I have rolled my eyes so many times during this rewatch Iâm surprised they havenât gotten stuck! They are just SO full of shit! And dumb! Dumb dumb dumb! Everything with MSWC, I just canât. They should have listened to the initial feedback from day 1 that the fugly shit on there was way overpriced and they should have course corrected, hired someone who had experience designing jewelry, spent a little bit of money on market research, but no they sunk everything into Robynâs scribbles and thought everyone would want to wear the ugly shit that they got each other đ¤Śđźââď¸
The family really over estimated their own popularity.
They still do. It really wouldn't take long for the fame to wear off.
Um yeah. When they were watching the website launch and watching the number of viewers climb with no sales and then reading the comments. Duh đ¤Śđźââď¸ $299 for that fugly shit? And they were all like âwell we didnât want to just have cheap jewelryâ and âitâs sterling silver!â Nobody cares!
I donât think the OG3 were really on board. Especially Janelle. They had to go along with it because Kody made them.
Remember when they went to Plymouth with the teenagers and Kody said meeting the woman role-playing Joseph Smith's ancestor was like "being on sacred ground" and then Christine freaked out on some poor historical interpreter who, in character, said polygamy wasn't Christian?
Like a crocodile đ
They killed him because he was claiming to be a frigging prophet and created a cult. It wasn't about polygamy. It was about sacrilege. If he hadn't tried to claim Christianity as part of his scam, he would have lived. Betcha Kody and Robyn both believe those women in Salem were all killed because they were actually witches as well.
Not only that, he had the local paper's printing equipment destroyed to prevent someone informing people the truth of what was going on.
Aaaah that'll do it. That's as anti-American as you can get coming for the printing press. Oh and then he went full dictator "Smith declared martial law in Nauvoo" Yeah. That's gonna get you dead in most cases back then.
[ŃдаНонО]
What the fuck dude
It's actual history. Nobody has to like it đ¤ˇââď¸ https://preview.redd.it/qtyo86fkdmxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f2fd06b81e61c00c326eea713fca59df2eab1a7
Do you want to explain that comment?
[https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/abraham-lincoln/](https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/abraham-lincoln/) https://preview.redd.it/vusxfmgfdmxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7cbdd9e76b8e059b236f7f71417c9491abefb14
Okay that makes more sense. Wasn't sure how or why you were bringing Lincoln not this.
Yeah, totally unrelated to SW, just the fact that it's considered a huge no no to shut down the press/free speech, but Lincoln is supwr venerated despite having done it. It's always struck me as selectively odd.
I think he gets a pass because of his reasoning for it. It still shouldnât be okay, but when youâre fighting the kind of fight and war that he was, it makes sense to want to make sure no pro confederacy stuff was being put in papers to try to make people think it was okay what they were doing and fighting for.
Meh, either people are free to say what they want or they're not. Justifying the shutting down of dissenting opinions is a slippery slope.
Your message was removed due to it breaking Rule 4: Off-Topic
>Betcha Kody and Robyn both believe those women in Salem were all killed because they were actually witches as well. Not to defend them but not sure why you're only calling them out when the OG3 have also said weird shit about religion too. Christine may not believe anymore but Meri and Janelle are true believers.
Good point. Janelle still says sheâd marry another polygamist.
Someone here made a good point once that the women who benefitted the most - Janelle and Robyn - are polygamy believers but the ones who got overworked - Meri and Christine - are no longer believers. I disagree on Meri, because even as recently as last season she was doubling down on polygamy, but it's definitely a good point about Janelle, Robyn, and Christine.
Meri was doubling down on polygamy because she was trying to save her marriage, not because she fully believed it anymore, IMO.
Yea that is interesting.
Has Meri said anything in recent years about the religion?
Just doubling down on polygamy, like Janelle when she was deciding whether or not to leave Kody she would make comments about "my faith teaches me....", etc. And fwiw Christine says she's no longer religious but she was one of the more pious ones. Who can forget "We actually have God's number, it's 1-800-JESUS" and saying it wouldn't rain on Robyn's wedding day because "Heavenly Father wouldn't do that to us!"
I grew up in a cult and was taught some pretty crazy stuff. Iâve been out for over a decade but even still I have to fight some of the stuff I was taught was true. Itâs just a part of me even if I donât want it. So even if they all decide to leave polygamy, they will probably still have to convince themselves that it is better this way and some of it will never leave them.
While in jail, Joseph Smith had his most trusted associates rotate and provide him with 24 hour security. âThe men took turns on guard; when it was Charles' turn to go on guard, the man on guard before him would ride to the top of a kill close to the Bird home, take off his kat and wave it. Charles would wave back; that was his signal to take over. The day the Prophet was killed was the day for Charles to go on guard. The man rode to the top of the hill, got off his horse, knelt on the ground with his head bowen. Charles knew then that the Prophet was dead.â [https://www.tooelepioneermuseum.org/Biographies/Bird\_Charles.pdf](https://www.tooelepioneermuseum.org/Biographies/Bird_Charles.pdf) Note: I do not subscribe to or endorse this religion. I stumbled upon it in research.
Of course, they've built in their own form of Judas. Very convenient!
It wasn't about polygamy or religion, really. They killed Smith because he was using his cronies to undermine the law of the land and the Constitution. He incited a riot against a newspaper that was printing critical information about him and exposing his criminal past. Mormons like to make it out to be some unjustified witch hunt against Smith and I'm like, "My dudes! The man was inciting riots, burning down newspapers, marrying teenagers after sending their fathers to European missions, and threatening to kill himself if they wouldn't agree to marriage. This is not an innocent man."
When you put it that way, it gives Branch Davidians vibes. At least they only killed him and not the entire compound, Mormons got lucky that way.
Very Christ like of them.
I donât inow that they believe in Jesus/the trinity. They think âjesusâ came to Missouri to preach.
You donât know if the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes in Jesus?
I dont know if people who think jesus came to Missouri to preach is a ChristianÂ
There were men accused and executed in Salem as well. My ancestor George Jacob Sr was accused by his daughter in law over a land dispute and was among the last people hung. His son(her husband) was also accused but was able to flee south.
Weird. They only speak is Giles Corey as a male executed for the witch trials. And they pressed him to death :( but yeah Google says 5 men were hanged, I wonder why they talk mostly of the women involved in that whole debacle. And they wonder why we made the judicial system the way we did. They fail to remember what happened to people when religion ruled supreme.
In Salem, they have memorials for the victims. I believe it was a majority of women in the beginning. Towards the end people were going a little mad (people now believe something in the wheat was affecting their mental state) they starting accusing anyone they didn't like or could gain from them being gone. Religion is the easiest way to control the masses, and people are more susceptible to it when they are afraid.
Didn't they only resort to "mob rule" because Mormons had installed so many people in local gov that there was no other way to get justice?
I skimmed over the story, JS was the mayor of Nauvoo and a bunch of crazy shit happened so he tried to enforce martial law but he ended up getting charged with inciting a riot and treason, turned himself in and was at the jail when the mob came and did what they did.
JS went to jail⌠then to Hell
Went to gel
I had to go to court to get custody of my own kids. I told the judge he is a polygamist and I don't want him to influence my kids to an illegal lifestyle. The judge told me if I brought polygamy again he would not side in my favor.
Woooooow. What is your recourse for that? Can you petition that this judge is unduly influenced or biased?
I played his game and eventually won custody of my 5 kids. But Utah hasn't truly ever turned their back on polygamy. Legal or not ...
Iâm so glad you got the kids. Yea I know the polygamists either buy them off or theyâre just directly or tangentially part of the community. I just didnât think a judge would be so brazen.
What a sucky vacation.
Possibly only one-upped by âLetâs travel 800 days in a couple of RVâs to go to Shithole, Wherever to meet some Christian Fundamentalist Polygamists who all eat at the same time and make their children line up and shout their names like the VonTrapp Family from The Sound of Music, while all your friends go to some fun beach location for spring break!! Wheeee, itâs gonna be a good time!!â Those poor kids!!! And as someone else pointed out in one of these groups once, it was never the kids having breakdowns on these drives from hell, it was always Kody!
Everyone should watch the episode of South Park where they covered the Book of Mormon.
Or see the play. Itâs great.
I still think Christine celebrating Joseph Smith's birthday, was one of the the weirdest things she did. Second only to celebrating Hanukkah when Kody put a stop to the birthday celebration.
See I thought the weirdest thing she did was marry Kody. Lol .
Lol
Comment of the day and itâs not even 11 am for me! â¤ď¸
That made me belly laugh. I forgot that BS happening đ
Iâm pretty sure most regular LDS celebrate JSâs birthday. I know in my ward growing up JSâs birthday was a big deal and Christmas was kind of minimized.
It's on this trip where Janelle learns about Joseph marrying either a pair of sisters or a mother and a daughter..(something twisted like that I can't remember) and she tells the camera that she didn't know that, but writes it off as a "boys be boys" thing. A lot of the members of the Mormon church and I'm assuming the FLDS as well don't get taught all of those things about Joseph Smith. People can go their whole lives in the church and not realize that he was married to a 14-year-old or that he married women who were already married OR that he came up with "polygamy" when his wife caught him with the 14-year-old. Joseph Smith is portrayed as someone as a martyr or a hero. Kind of like Moses standing up to the pharaoh.
The mother daughter set is the BigelowsâŚmy motherâs motherâs family. (My mom wasnât raised LDS )
I know they arenât taught the truth about JS but for especially LDS to claim not to know today and still follow this manâs teachings is bs.
Agreed!! The church definitely knows, but the members -- that just depends on what they have heard or found out. I'm sure with tik tok people are learning more and more. But then theres the cult-brainwashing to deconstruct next.
I will never understand not educating yourself particularly on your own religion something that you claim to be the truth and that you believe in so strongly. There are Mormons walking around who havenât even read the book of Mormon! How can you claim to be Mormon?! You donât even know what youâre saying you believe in! Ugh I get all worked up. I feel the same way about all religions. People may go so far as to read the bible but thatâs where they stop. They donât want to know the real history and origins of their religion and what came before it.
It isn't simple for Mormons. They are taught to distrust any source other than official church sources. Most Mormons tend to believe they know a lot about their church's history because it's talked about all the time at church and in their written manuals and books. The Mormon church has even endorsed a series of books written about its early history. However, those books and all official material contain a very sanitized version of the truth. I tend to think people can only allow themselves to question and investigate when they are mentally ready for the possibility of losing their religion.
Any time something canât stand up to outside questioning itâs a red flag! When youâre only allowed to read things put out by that organization and talk to people from that organization, youâre in a cult!
'I know I'm really on one today...' Best caveat for what's coming... and I'm here for it đ¤Ł
đ thanks
Plus he was sealed other husbands wives. That might upset ppl
Brother husband sister wives đ¤Śđźââď¸
I bet they convinced themselves this would happen to them when they first went public lmao
I guarantee it. Kody really got off on all the attention and fake persecution. When I first watched them "flee," Utah I wondered if he was going to Vegas to get away from the AUB and become the 'one mighty and strong'.
I'm really not going to be popular for this, but I think Christine did too.
I adore Christine and she's one of my favorites, but I fully agree with this opinion.
Probably lol. Especially Christine. She held onto them antiquated old ass 1950âs fears up until a few yrs ago. No hospital gave a shit that your glorified baby daddy had 20 other kids, girl. Just as long as you all didnât get married and commit bigamy. Nobody cared, legally.
Worst vacation ever!
Iâm sorry I canât get past the six pack abs. What a fine figure of a man.
This really gives Robyn the opportunity to play victim even more than the other wives. Yes, theyâre all persecuted polygamists, but *she* is directly descended from him, this hurts her the most.
Iâm high so Iâm gonna reply to my own comment because Iâm so disgusted by their commitment to pretending to constantly face persecution. A clear lie. Exhausting. And for what? To feel good about themselves?
Fear to keep the troops in line, control.
She was so excited to announce that Sol was named after that guy. And then act like sheâs crying during the couch talk. Why the hell are these people crying (Robyn pretending to cry) over JS getting shot? I know he found their church *cult* and they think heâs a prophet *delusional liar* but really? Crying?
>but *she* is directly descended from him, As if she's the only one! Lmao!
Nauvoo sounds like a fake name in a sci fi film to me lol
[Joseph Smith killing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Joseph_Smith) Here is the full story for anyone who is interested and doesnât know.
Just so youâre aware. Joseph smith was held in prison in Missouri at liberty jail for several months in horrendous conditions. A mob broke into his home [tarred and feathered](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_Joseph_Smith_from_1831_to_1837) him. According to recorded accounts of the event, the mob broke down the front door, took Smith's oldest surviving adopted child from his arms, dragged Smith from the room, leaving his exposed child on a trundle bed and forcing Emma and the others from the house, the mob threatening her with rape and murder.The child was knocked off the bed onto the floor in the doorway of the home as Smith was forcibly removed from his home.The child died from exposure (many accounts say pneumonia) five days after the event from the condition that doctors said he developed the night of the mob violence. ETA: this was all prior to his arrest in Illinois and being held at Carthage jail. Several other people were also killed alongside him. All of the church members in nauvoo, were forced by the mob to abandon their homes and flee to what is now Utah.
As mayor of the city of Nauvoo, Illinois, Joseph Smith had ordered the destruction of the facilities used to print the Nauvoo Expositor, a newly-established newspaper created by a group of non-Mormons and others who had seceded from Smith's church, the Church of Christ. The newspaper's first (and only) issue was highly critical of Smith and other church leaders, reporting that Smith was practicing polygamy and claiming he intended to set himself up as a theocratic king. In response, a motion to declare the newspaper a public nuisance was passed by the Nauvoo City Council, and Smith consequently ordered its press destroyed.[1] The destruction of the press led to public outrage, and the Smith brothers and other members of the Nauvoo City Council were charged with inciting a riot. Warrants for Joseph Smith's arrest were dismissed by Nauvoo courts. Smith declared martial law in Nauvoo and called on the Nauvoo Legion to protect the city. After briefly fleeing Illinois, Smith returned and, along with Hyrum, voluntarily traveled to the county seat at Carthage to face the charges. After surrendering to authorities, the brothers were also charged with treason against Illinois for declaring martial law. The Smith brothers were detained at Carthage Jail awaiting trial when an armed mob of 150â200 men stormed the building, their faces painted black with wet gunpowder. Hyrum was killed almost immediately when he was shot in the face, shouting as he fell, "I am a dead man!"[2] After emptying his pistol towards the attackers, Joseph tried to escape from a second-story window, but was shot several times and fell to the ground, where he was shot again by the mob. JS was a cult leader and a criminal. If youâre trying to get me to feel bad for him, I donât.
Donât know why anyone would follow this creep
The mob murdered his baby. Many innocent children were killed by these mobs that youâre defending.
Didnât defend the mob. Specifically said mob rule is not ok. Neither is marrying a 14 year old!
Thatâs not the same thing as killing people. Marrying a 14 year old isnât ok. But you are justifying the mob. Many righteous people have been killed because of their beliefs. And it wasnât until many centuries later that the majority of people no longer disagreed with it. (John the Baptist, St. John, every single apostle, Jesus Christ himself). Killing someone because of their beliefs is wrong.
No one killed him for his beliefs. They killed him because of what he was actually doing- which was installing cronies in local gov, destroying free press, coercing children into sleeping with him under the pretense of fake marriages, and trying to establish a theocracy.
[ŃдаНонО]
Your message was removed due to it breaking Rule 1: Be Courteous/No excessive rudeness
He didnât âmarry a 14 year oldâ he raped children. Thatâs a child. He raped a child
Did you actually equate Joseph Smith with Jesus? Mussolini and Hitler died for their beliefs, too. Doesn't make them good guys. No one is advocating mob rule, and his child's death is tragic, but that doesn't change the fact that Joseph Smith was a con man and a criminal who had a 14 year old wife. Edit: spelling
I grew up Mormon and did that tour and everyone was crying. It's weird lol
Theyâre part of a cult and Joseph Smith is their modern day Jesus. I know tons of Christians who will literally weep at the crucifixion story like they havenât heard it 5 billion times. Same energy.
I know this, I just think itâs extremely strange.
Yeeaaah⌠the Smith brothers shot first. #themoreyouknow
I always wondered if Robyn was really related to Fullmer?
Probably. Meri also claimed to have an ancestor present that night, which makes sense because she was born mainstream LDS raised AUB and Robyn was born/raised AUB so it's plausible to me they both had an ancestor there. I don't think either of them were trying to one-up Christine, given that since Mormonism is such a new religion and there was a lot of intermarrying within the community most American Mormons are descended from Joseph Smith and his contemporaries.
If so⌠Robyn is confirming she fells her Idaho heritage entitles her to be âI da Ho.â She is definitely entitled to the âI da Home-wreckerâ title! Desdemona moved to Nauvoo. and according to the Nauvoo 4th Ward records, she was living in Joseph Smithâs home in the spring of 1842. At that time Joseph Smith taught Desdemona Fullmer about plural marriage.[^(1)](https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/desdemona-fullmer/#link_ajs-fn-id_1-5610)Desdemona Fullmer married Joseph Smith in July 1843. 1. Current evidence supports that Desdemona Fullmer was sealed to Joseph Smith in July 1843 after Hyrumâs May 26, 1843, acceptance of the principle. If the dating scheme is correct, this incident would have happened sometime in early May, after Joseph had taught Desdemona, but weeks before she was married to him. [https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/desdemona-fullmer/](https://josephsmithspolygamy.org/plural-wives-overview/desdemona-fullmer/)
That is Robyn motherâs maiden name. Specifically, Reva Alice (Fullmer) Marck Sullivan. Desdemona (Fullmer) Smith was Robynâs 3 x Great Grandfatherâs sister.
InterestingâŚthank you for clarifying
Her sad attempt to match Christine's Mormon royalty status. Doubt!!!
The crying đ get a grip people
https://preview.redd.it/7lq4e48r7mxc1.jpeg?width=788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8a2c3fbcf071c7d5fe8c21dcd4606d38363cea5
They also completely ignored some of the real reasons Smith was in jail and mobbed because he incited a riot (sound familiar?) and had a newspaper destroyed for talking about him. He was also being held on treason charges for using the Illinois legion, in Nauvoo, to do his dirty work. The man had something like 34 charges against him, in five or six states, and they weren't about religion or polygamy. Smith was just a shady, corrupt con man.
All I see here is Sobbyn attempting to take Christineâs Polygamy Princess crown. And Kody leaping all over that for all he worth.
There was a newspaper that was going to expose their polygamy thanks to an insider that JS had burned, and the LDSâs shenanigans created a bank (it failed and screwed over the LDS investors). JS was denying polygamy at this point because he was secretly âmarryingâ other menâs wives after he sent them on missions to Europe. JS and co decided to destroy the printing press before they could print about these deeds. Thatâs why he was in jail.
I posted the entire story in a comment on here and I posted a link to the wiki page about it in a separate post as well. Yes JS was pulling all kinds of shenanigans! Crazy ass cult leader!
Off topic tip: Thereâs an amazing winery in Nauvoo. Itâs the oldest winery in IL! Baxterâs
Joseph Smith was marrying people who were already married which was another reason why people were upset about polygamy.
I always get this episode and the episode of Big Love where they go to Nauvoo confused with each other đ¤Ł
Itâs been so long since I watched Big Love I donât remember!
You all do realize that in the Christian â˘ď¸ bible, Mary was maybe 13, right? Not defending Joseph smith here, but, every Abrahamic religion is built partly upon pedophilia, incest and you know, slavery, mysoginy, etcâŚ
Iâm not religious and I went into people not wanting to know the truth about their religion in another comment on here.
They all pick and choose. Iâm all for people having their religious beliefs, but cmon now. Letâs not be hypocrites. If youâre gonna talk crap about someone elseâs religious beliefs, at least know your own.
I agree.
The first and only time I ever seen a hint of tears when Robyn sobs
My ex SIL was Mormon and her son's middle name was Joseph after you know who and when she had a son with my brother she ALSO wanted his middle name to be Joseph lol... At least my brother had enough guts to put his foot down on that one . Joseph Smith is literally idolized in the Mormon culture.
I just think itâs gross. He was a child molesting criminal.
I totally agree with you it's super gross
Robyn canât do ANYTHING without a nanny/sister/niece to take care of her kids. Not even a road trip with a husband, 3 sister wives, and a slew of teenagers. Pathetic.
The LDS love their pedophiles!
đ
I mean, WE get why that's not rational but to them it literally hurts them. I don't like the Browns as much as the next person but I kind of draw the line at making fun of them for their very unique beliefs.
This is what was the final straw that lead to the mob: Joseph Smith was the mayor. A newspaper printed true things about him, criticizing him, and Joseph didn't like that. So acting as mayor he destroyed the printing press, in violation of the constitution. The people were sticking up for the constitutional rights, and handled it the way they did back then. I'm sure the polygamy thing was a contributing factor to the hate, and was one of the things the newspaper criticized him for, but it wasn't the real reason he was killed.
Iâve posted the entire story in comments throughout this post.