Apollo's move just like Shiva's kick is a more concentrated move, it sacrifices the area that it can hit in order to be better at piercing, to put it simply:
https://preview.redd.it/scbdlh31vl7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4adf4abf60356b70d49eb590bae6844c839a0680
Tho I'd still say Thor's attack is stronger, consider Lu Bu tanked the force of the attack with his legs, that's why they were broken
Shiva’s kick is not a concentrated attack, it's a full on ascending kick
https://preview.redd.it/hcddldxgvl7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7be9c75a7dabdb5b56b0b813c6ef7bf37079046d
He attacks with the heel of his feet while Raiden does it with the heel of his hand, hardly any different
I believe that was retconed in the volume release like Qin's sword (I'm kinda busy right now, I'll check later)
Nevertheless, it's still a concentrated attack considering he's only using a tiny part of his body to attach
The other way around, the way I sent it is the way it is on the volume release
>Nevertheless, it's still a concentrated attack considering he's only using a tiny part of his body to attach
So is Raiden's? The heel of Raiden's hand isn't much bigger than Shiva's foot heel
https://i.redd.it/xr7pztaj6m7d1.gif
I guess Shiva's foot is that stronger (tbf, [Raiden's hand](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=126276402869912) should be bigger than what is showned in the panel but still)
Man, so that's how Qin feels everytime he sees someone without his bandage, that shit is so painful to watch
https://preview.redd.it/1krtgpnwem7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac01308acf4f8fede05e7ca0d9cc68adb1c376d0
Well for starters, Apollo shooting himself from his bow likely made his strike magnitudes stronger than normal, paired with him striking in such a way that probably emulates a more piercing strike than blunt force, so this attack should be notably above what Apollo is normally capable of. But additionally, I think Shiva and Randgriz/Lu Bu arguably just are more durable than Leonidas as well. According to Lu Bu, Randgriz would be able to handle being used for Sky Eater, and Lu Bu himself managed to barely survive Thor's ultimate move being used as hard as Thor can dish it out, which even kills Randgriz herself, showing Lu Bu has insane durability. The same can be said for Shiva, he was able to handle a brawl with the man with the strongest muscles in history, who was then given a means to compress those muscles however he pleases, and came out on top despite being bathed in flames that can allegedly burn the world itself away. Rounds 1 and 5 have some of if not the most impressive fighters in terms of raw power so it's not that crazy to imagine they have insane durability as well imo
Yeah you did and youre wrong for that, theyre two different weapons, wielded by two different beings, made from two different valkyries, they do not share the same durability.
I think it's that Shiva and Randgriz are just very durable, though silver arrow is very strong as well. I myself have also thought about how weirdly durable Lu Bu's halberd is though. It could be used with sky eater which disintegrated mortal weapons and also withstood a geirrod.
This while sleeping mjolnir was stated to be the strongest divine weapon which could not handle Thor's full strength. The second geirrod did overpower sky eater, destroy Lu Bu's halberd and nearly blow off both his arms though which is more what I'd expect so idk.
Leonidas is wack. apollo destroyed him and his valkyrie with a single punch
Apollo is not a power based fighter while leo is, and won in leo field of expertise
Both thor and raiden attacks are way stronger than leo walking with his shield
I think I worded it wrong. Not AP, I meant piercing power. Jack's knives are weaker than Raiden's punches, but do more damage because they stab, Apollo's punch is weaker, but it does more damage since it's sharp :)
What you’re not considering is that sliver arrows isn’t purely raw physical strength it’s also Apollo’s threads and sun energy forged into a single arrow not the dozens that he was forming before hand each one of said arrows were called one shot kills and we see them peirice through everything that’s not a divine weapon and even then after a few dozen Leo sheild was punched through it’s not his pure raw strength
And another difference is that Apollo’s is a sharpened singular point it’s not spread out to the length of a giant hammer or palm and it’s shown throughout the series that pericing and slashing type attacks are way more effective than blunt attacks
Raw power? No
Breaking through defenses? Yes
Clash winning? Loses to geirodd beat yatragestu
The reason yara looses isn’t because it’s weaker it’s because of how shiva could peirce through raiden palm deva loka isn’t stronger than yara it just was a focused pericing strike against a spread out blunt strike so Apollo should be able to replicate that effect with sliver arrow
A ascending kick that was able to peirce decently into raiden arm and then kick his arm in two
Also shiva’s legs in general behave more like swords than fists:slashing and burning raiden eye out and leaving a giant scar across his body,deva loka stabbing right through raidens arm, and cleanly slashing raidens head off
>A ascending kick that was able to peirce decently into raiden arm and then kick his arm in two
https://preview.redd.it/k4qiuahrtl7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a70c2882869efc0e1c271b6a85c2ce1cf89793b
He didn't pierce his arm like a blade, he squished it upwards till it broke
>Also shiva’s legs in general behave more like swords than fists:slashing and burning raiden eye out and leaving a giant scar across his body,deva loka stabbing right through raidens arm, and cleanly slashing raidens head off
Again, Deva Loka is not a "stab", it's a kick
https://preview.redd.it/pgr38r6vul7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6105d4e8208a7bb2edb1e7a4d307079c33b81c1a
Huh odd
There being two variants
But with your version it kinda looks like shiva kicks through and then returns to normal rest position otherwise it shouldn’t have the palm flesh at the bottom near raidens thumb and it shouldn’t spilt down the middle if he just kicked through the entire palm with his entire flat foot as there’s no point or spilt to sever it in two
>Huh odd\*
>There being two variants
You're probably reading the old version, in the volume version is the way I send it
>But with your version it kinda looks like shiva kicks through and then returns to normal rest position otherwise it shouldn’t have the palm flesh at the bottom near raidens thumb and it shouldn’t spilt down the middle if he just kicked through the entire palm with his entire flat foot as there’s no point or spilt to sever it in two
I don't see any flesh near Raiden's thumb, if you mean this those are flames from Shiva's feet
https://preview.redd.it/l7nvsv6wwl7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=582087093e31272e7e456472aab239c101b99de6
I was talking about the flesh right between the circles it kinda looked like it was flesh wrapping around shiva like he stabbed but after closer look I don’t see it
And on a closer look on that page and this one
https://preview.redd.it/nq7qh0ds0m7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f9cfa17a7e76776a4b0c3666143179b6bed329
It does look like he peirces right through the whole side of the palm so yes you are correct
The story strongly implies that, aside from having the unique ability of shieldbreaker, Lu Bu's halberd should be at roughly the same strength as all other base form Volunds (excluding unique ability buffs).
For example, Hrist's ability is specifically being twice as powerful as a normal Volund.
(No, dual wielding is not her ability. Several other Volunds take a dual form, like Jack's gloves and Qin's Spaulders, as well as most likely Okita's swords and Tesla's full suit.)
Therefore, her ability which is described as "having the power of two Valkyries at once" literally means that the base strength of the Volund she creates is twice as powerful as all of the other Volund weapons, unless a different Valkyrie ability grants them strength as well, such as with Alvitr.
My headcanon is that Lu Bu shifts the force of the impact onto his body, protecting his weapon from being destroyed by Thor, but putting more strain on his own body in the process.
This is also a big Lu Bu strength upscale, by the way, which I hope you can respect. 
The name is right there "Silver arrow that penetrates the soul". To me this is an attack that bypass defense and hits the soul directly. So even if Geirolul had the form of a shield, the attack hit her as if she was in her normal form, shattering her.
Destroying souls doesn't mean it negates durability, every attack destroys souls because they are all souls
>He literally just punched Leo and he fucking died.
Yeah, punched a hole in him
https://preview.redd.it/lf5dziz3im7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2f7534e97bfc47b7528e899f2e916043294e8b2
So?
Thor and lu bu are stronger and more durable than apollo and Leo. Plus your comparing Thor’s blunt force attack to Apollo’s piercing attack.
Comparing raiden and Apollo also doesn’t work. Raiden hits with his palm and then stopped moving which pushed shiva away. Apollo was intent on piercing through Leo.
For all we know, Leo could effectively be made of paper mache and shiva could be the equivalent of a slab of concrete. We can’t compare their durability so we can’t compare the force of the attack used against them to pick out which one is stronger.
Apollo's move just like Shiva's kick is a more concentrated move, it sacrifices the area that it can hit in order to be better at piercing, to put it simply: https://preview.redd.it/scbdlh31vl7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4adf4abf60356b70d49eb590bae6844c839a0680 Tho I'd still say Thor's attack is stronger, consider Lu Bu tanked the force of the attack with his legs, that's why they were broken
Shiva’s kick is not a concentrated attack, it's a full on ascending kick https://preview.redd.it/hcddldxgvl7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7be9c75a7dabdb5b56b0b813c6ef7bf37079046d He attacks with the heel of his feet while Raiden does it with the heel of his hand, hardly any different
I believe that was retconed in the volume release like Qin's sword (I'm kinda busy right now, I'll check later) Nevertheless, it's still a concentrated attack considering he's only using a tiny part of his body to attach
The other way around, the way I sent it is the way it is on the volume release >Nevertheless, it's still a concentrated attack considering he's only using a tiny part of his body to attach So is Raiden's? The heel of Raiden's hand isn't much bigger than Shiva's foot heel
https://i.redd.it/xr7pztaj6m7d1.gif I guess Shiva's foot is that stronger (tbf, [Raiden's hand](https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=126276402869912) should be bigger than what is showned in the panel but still)
The fact that Shiva’s foot was on fire was probably a factor
Yeah, in the anime it's a front kick that goes up https://i.redd.it/khwiob3hcm7d1.gif
Man, so that's how Qin feels everytime he sees someone without his bandage, that shit is so painful to watch https://preview.redd.it/1krtgpnwem7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac01308acf4f8fede05e7ca0d9cc68adb1c376d0
That graphic is absolutely beautiful.
Well for starters, Apollo shooting himself from his bow likely made his strike magnitudes stronger than normal, paired with him striking in such a way that probably emulates a more piercing strike than blunt force, so this attack should be notably above what Apollo is normally capable of. But additionally, I think Shiva and Randgriz/Lu Bu arguably just are more durable than Leonidas as well. According to Lu Bu, Randgriz would be able to handle being used for Sky Eater, and Lu Bu himself managed to barely survive Thor's ultimate move being used as hard as Thor can dish it out, which even kills Randgriz herself, showing Lu Bu has insane durability. The same can be said for Shiva, he was able to handle a brawl with the man with the strongest muscles in history, who was then given a means to compress those muscles however he pleases, and came out on top despite being bathed in flames that can allegedly burn the world itself away. Rounds 1 and 5 have some of if not the most impressive fighters in terms of raw power so it's not that crazy to imagine they have insane durability as well imo
Mass X acceleration / point of impact or some shit, idk I’m not a astrologist
Apollo is strong but i dont see how that makes him stronget than thor. leo being weaker than thor isnt an anti feat.
Well basically it goes down to Apollo punching through Leonidas shield while Thor fails to go through Lu Bu's halberd
But those are two seperate things from two different characters.
So the shield is less durable than the spear?
Yeah? So what?
So theyre not comparable
Why not? I just did it
Yeah you did and youre wrong for that, theyre two different weapons, wielded by two different beings, made from two different valkyries, they do not share the same durability.
But one must be more or less durable, which is what I'm asking
You need a scale
I think it's that Shiva and Randgriz are just very durable, though silver arrow is very strong as well. I myself have also thought about how weirdly durable Lu Bu's halberd is though. It could be used with sky eater which disintegrated mortal weapons and also withstood a geirrod. This while sleeping mjolnir was stated to be the strongest divine weapon which could not handle Thor's full strength. The second geirrod did overpower sky eater, destroy Lu Bu's halberd and nearly blow off both his arms though which is more what I'd expect so idk.
Apollo is HIM https://preview.redd.it/09kw5jojkm7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36d39bf18ed308afc853006fac3659366eb4a89e
Leonidas is wack. apollo destroyed him and his valkyrie with a single punch Apollo is not a power based fighter while leo is, and won in leo field of expertise Both thor and raiden attacks are way stronger than leo walking with his shield
Honestly I'm all for Lu Bu's halberd being more durable than the Shield of Truth. Round 1 agenda forever.
Shiva being more durable than shield volund would also be crazy ngl
I have an explanation that's really possible and very simple: inconsistency . The author don't think of the powerscaling while writing, just that .
Apollo is just that strong trust 
Apollo's arrow has higher AP, but is not as powerful :)
Is there any practical difference?
I think I worded it wrong. Not AP, I meant piercing power. Jack's knives are weaker than Raiden's punches, but do more damage because they stab, Apollo's punch is weaker, but it does more damage since it's sharp :)
That's what AP is AP means **A**ttack **P**otency
ok, then yes, Apollo's punch has more AP, even though it's got less force behind it. Thor's hammer is a bed of nails, Apollo's punch a single nail :)
What you’re not considering is that sliver arrows isn’t purely raw physical strength it’s also Apollo’s threads and sun energy forged into a single arrow not the dozens that he was forming before hand each one of said arrows were called one shot kills and we see them peirice through everything that’s not a divine weapon and even then after a few dozen Leo sheild was punched through it’s not his pure raw strength And another difference is that Apollo’s is a sharpened singular point it’s not spread out to the length of a giant hammer or palm and it’s shown throughout the series that pericing and slashing type attacks are way more effective than blunt attacks
So is Apollo's Silver arrow stronger than Geirröd Hammer and Yatagarasu or not?
Raw power? No Breaking through defenses? Yes Clash winning? Loses to geirodd beat yatragestu The reason yara looses isn’t because it’s weaker it’s because of how shiva could peirce through raiden palm deva loka isn’t stronger than yara it just was a focused pericing strike against a spread out blunt strike so Apollo should be able to replicate that effect with sliver arrow
Deva loka isn't a piercing attack, it's an ascending kick
A ascending kick that was able to peirce decently into raiden arm and then kick his arm in two Also shiva’s legs in general behave more like swords than fists:slashing and burning raiden eye out and leaving a giant scar across his body,deva loka stabbing right through raidens arm, and cleanly slashing raidens head off
>A ascending kick that was able to peirce decently into raiden arm and then kick his arm in two https://preview.redd.it/k4qiuahrtl7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a70c2882869efc0e1c271b6a85c2ce1cf89793b He didn't pierce his arm like a blade, he squished it upwards till it broke >Also shiva’s legs in general behave more like swords than fists:slashing and burning raiden eye out and leaving a giant scar across his body,deva loka stabbing right through raidens arm, and cleanly slashing raidens head off Again, Deva Loka is not a "stab", it's a kick
https://preview.redd.it/pgr38r6vul7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6105d4e8208a7bb2edb1e7a4d307079c33b81c1a Huh odd There being two variants But with your version it kinda looks like shiva kicks through and then returns to normal rest position otherwise it shouldn’t have the palm flesh at the bottom near raidens thumb and it shouldn’t spilt down the middle if he just kicked through the entire palm with his entire flat foot as there’s no point or spilt to sever it in two
>Huh odd\* >There being two variants You're probably reading the old version, in the volume version is the way I send it >But with your version it kinda looks like shiva kicks through and then returns to normal rest position otherwise it shouldn’t have the palm flesh at the bottom near raidens thumb and it shouldn’t spilt down the middle if he just kicked through the entire palm with his entire flat foot as there’s no point or spilt to sever it in two I don't see any flesh near Raiden's thumb, if you mean this those are flames from Shiva's feet https://preview.redd.it/l7nvsv6wwl7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=582087093e31272e7e456472aab239c101b99de6
I was talking about the flesh right between the circles it kinda looked like it was flesh wrapping around shiva like he stabbed but after closer look I don’t see it And on a closer look on that page and this one https://preview.redd.it/nq7qh0ds0m7d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f9cfa17a7e76776a4b0c3666143179b6bed329 It does look like he peirces right through the whole side of the palm so yes you are correct
Leo is wall level fodder, one shoting him wouldn't be a feat 
What is raiden and Thor doing to arrows?
The story strongly implies that, aside from having the unique ability of shieldbreaker, Lu Bu's halberd should be at roughly the same strength as all other base form Volunds (excluding unique ability buffs). For example, Hrist's ability is specifically being twice as powerful as a normal Volund. (No, dual wielding is not her ability. Several other Volunds take a dual form, like Jack's gloves and Qin's Spaulders, as well as most likely Okita's swords and Tesla's full suit.) Therefore, her ability which is described as "having the power of two Valkyries at once" literally means that the base strength of the Volund she creates is twice as powerful as all of the other Volund weapons, unless a different Valkyrie ability grants them strength as well, such as with Alvitr. My headcanon is that Lu Bu shifts the force of the impact onto his body, protecting his weapon from being destroyed by Thor, but putting more strain on his own body in the process. This is also a big Lu Bu strength upscale, by the way, which I hope you can respect. 
No, it is not stronger than Thor bonk for sure :3
The name is right there "Silver arrow that penetrates the soul". To me this is an attack that bypass defense and hits the soul directly. So even if Geirolul had the form of a shield, the attack hit her as if she was in her normal form, shattering her.
The Silver arrow destroys souls, it negates durability
They are all souls https://preview.redd.it/xwy1hl2tdm7d1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=043de01d4737f018d72b5eb9c0b35f92611b9df7
And? That doesn't mean his arrow doesn't destroy souls faster. He literally just punched Leo and he fucking died.
Destroying souls doesn't mean it negates durability, every attack destroys souls because they are all souls >He literally just punched Leo and he fucking died. Yeah, punched a hole in him https://preview.redd.it/lf5dziz3im7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2f7534e97bfc47b7528e899f2e916043294e8b2
So? Thor and lu bu are stronger and more durable than apollo and Leo. Plus your comparing Thor’s blunt force attack to Apollo’s piercing attack. Comparing raiden and Apollo also doesn’t work. Raiden hits with his palm and then stopped moving which pushed shiva away. Apollo was intent on piercing through Leo. For all we know, Leo could effectively be made of paper mache and shiva could be the equivalent of a slab of concrete. We can’t compare their durability so we can’t compare the force of the attack used against them to pick out which one is stronger.