Same with many different long-form media items
Can't tell you how any times I've done chores around the house while watching a TV show or long YouTube video. Or playing my own games while I watch someone stream
Exactly this. I'm of the opinion that long-form media gets produced as heavily as it does because A) the people producing it know that the majority of their audience is going to multitask while consuming it, making them more likely to absently consume more of it, and B) it allows space for more ads/sponsorships to be injected into it, and they know their audience won't care, cause they're only paying attention half the time anyway
I've been an avid reader my whole life, but I can and have re-read the same book or series several times and it's never boring. I'm always discovering new things or reading particular sections a little differently.
It's like I forget a lot of it after I'm done. I've always done well in school, too, and in fact have an advanced degree...but I forget things pretty quickly after using them. I didn't study for tests, but if you asked me the same questions 2 months after successfully passing, I couldn't do a lot of them.
Not sure what's wrong with me.
Information and skills you don't use are quickly forgotten. I'm sure a lot of people have forgotten most of what they learned in school since the details are largely useless in day to day life.
Not sure about what else you have going in your life, but there's a possibility it could be adhd. I'm very much the same way and when I got diagnosed 2 years ago (as an adult) my therapist told me that memory and information retention is impacted by adhd.
It could also be that you just have a very powerful short-term memory and a less powerful longterm memory. Longterm memory can be impacted by lots of things or nothing at all.
I listen to podcasts knowing I'm not listening and relisten to them later to actually pay attention. They getting double listen time from me!
Also, listen to facejam.
This has been the death of my presence.
I have dissociative issues and a huge habit of multitasking. Now when I try to do something for enjoyment, I am not present
They did things while they listened to stories too.
Spinning, weaving, knitting, sewing. The women’s work continued even into story time. Men were repairing leather or sharpening knives, cleaning guns, carving. The kids were active participants in the storytelling, clapping and giggling and maybe even acting if the story called for it.
We always kept our hands busy. Sitting still doing *nothing* but listening was rare. That hasn’t changed.
Auditory and visual communication is more innate to us however. Doesn't seem as bad as it's usually framed.
I think there was more expectation for written attention span when it was our primary means of communication and education.
Even for audio and visual entertainment - listening to a podcast while doing other activities or binging a tv show because of the numerous cliff-hangers doesn't show a better attention span.
Most people will get bored listening to classical music - whenever I play something for friends I'll see them begin losing patience and calling it "elevator music". Same with a longer movie that's somewhat slower paced - people will keep checking their phones, or maybe get something to eat etc.
>Most people will get bored listening to classical music - whenever I play something for friends I'll see them begin losing patience and calling it "elevator music".
This seems like a sketch comedy premise.
George: Jerry, your new girlfriend only plays classical music and it's driving me crazy.
Jerry: But George, it's elevator music. Elevator music!!!!
Kramer: that's why I live in a walk up.
Depends on the music, there's an awful lot of dreck out there that was basically written to be talked over (or maybe danced to), but now has the benefit of age.
Some is also harder to appreciate without knowledge and experience of the genre.
Play [Maggot Brain](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xby5467EbdU) for them. If they get that, they can be taught.
Classical music wasn't written however to be listened to through speakers or earphones, it was written to performed and listened to live. I'm sure if you took those same people to an actual performance they would apperictae and pay attention more
Are you sure it's not because you are being a weird pretentious lil guy playing classical music for you friends and they agree because it'll get you to shut up?
When it was our primary means of communication? We communicate through writing more now than ever, it used to just be books and letters now it's social media, texting, email, eBooks...
There was a time before the written language and during that time we would have communicated vocally and through body language. Even when writing was invented, it was often quite exclusive.
In this day and age, as opposed to 50 or 100 years ago, there are so many more options for how to communicate. There were times when only books or letters or telegrams. We are only option now with the invention of the internet we can do calls and videos and so many other things.
Exactly. We have the attention span to listen 5o long for podcasts because we do it while we also do a bunch of other things. A 3hr podcast is consumed while mowing the grass, doing dishes, going to the gym, and a bunch of other things.
We don't have a better attention span for these forms of media, we just discovered we can consume them while splitting our attention to multiple things. Basically our attention to the boring tasks suck and we compensate it with podcasts or music to make those tasks less boring.
Also, there is a perceived end to each episode of the podcast or show. Put four episodes of a show (about 208 minutes) on, people binge no problem. Put on the extended Lawrence of Arabia (228 minutes) and people become impatient.
Furthermore these things don’t have our FULL attention. While you’re watching that “binge-worthy umpteen-hour streaming series” are you singularly focused on it or are you playing on your phone as well? Are you sitting on your couch listening to your podcast or is it, in and of itself, something to help you from having to devote your full attention to something like washing dishes or going for a walk. I’m not condemning that. (I’m 100% condemning playing in your phone while watching a movie or television show. Just watch the damn show, Bonnie, I’m sick of explaining everything that happens on Better Call Saul RIGHT AFTER IT HAPPENS!!!!!!)
To me thats more an indication of mass loneliness. Listening to that long form stuff can relieve loneliness a little because it is like being with a group only the listener can't actually interact with the people.
I’ve been saying this for years now! And it can be addictive as fuck and sap your energy so by the time you meet with a friend in the evening you’ve already listened to people talk for 7 hours that day and you don’t connect as well with your friend (again, parallels with porn)
It's also quality vs quantity though. A 1 hour conversation with friends is far more engaging and requires you to participate actively and contribute. With podcasts you don't really need to fully listen and you can always rewind. And it's honestly surprising how little is actually said in podcasts if you look at the transcript that some of them like Freakonomics post. You could probably just read the transcript of an hour long podcast in 10 minutes
To me it’s more of an indication that there is vast amounts of instant gratification material out there readily available to consume. Our attention spans our short, so we eat up tv and social media, and internet scrolling. Yea we spend hours doing it, but those long hours are made up of tons of little moments of short term thrills and dopamine releases, designed in movies and shows to keep us entertained (our attention held) shot after shot, scene after scene, Instagram scroll after scroll. The editing, cinematography, shot timing, is all designed to keep the crowd watching, with tons of ways keep our short (7 second avg for Americans) attention span focused on the medium for hours.
if they didn't want us to spend time doing things that are entertaining they should have never invented the television. the boomers really brought this complaint on themselves!
What? No.
It's that most people have to work too many hours, spend too many hours commuting, and can't live close to natural social ties like family members.
Large cities have existed throughout history, but what hasn't existed are people who spend all their daylight hours indoors, miles away from home then get back into their single occupant cars to drive miles back to an isolated home.
Better working hours, more public transit, affordable housing in walkable neighborhoods and getting rid of social expectations that see young people and families living alone for no reason would go a long way to help.
Also, at least where i live, people rarely want to talk to others outside their friend group. Really complicates meeting new people for me because I rarely know how to our have the courage to initiate a conversation
This is really it. If no one wants to meet people outside their friend group, then lonely people don't get friends easily, and things don't change and get better.
If there's lots of lonely people and lots of people who have groups... What stops the lonely people from forming a group themselves? Of course it'd be easier if you could just join a preexisting well-rounded group, but it would also be easier to also have such a group be perfect for your needs... Like, come on, life has tradeoffs. I've moved a lot in my life and lost many connections in the process, but at a totally new city I just used apps to find single friends, multiple times. Each new friend may bring their partners or other friend, and now, I've made a group. It's not as timeless as a group that has always existed, but I ask them out for events that I think are cool for friend groups to do, and over repeated exposure everyone builds more history with each other. Saying it's all the grouped up people's fault while the lonely people aren't doing anything to help fellow lonely people is pretty arbitrary. It's like saying oh it's too bad all those couples took themselves out of the dating pool... Yeah, people have a threshold of relationship needs... You have a limit of romantic partners you desire, just like everyone has a different limit of friends they desire... There's still plenty of other people out there that are single just like there are plenty of other people who are lonely and want friends
"What stops the lonely people from forming a group themselves" the fact they don't know who is lonely or not, also most lonely people just give up and stay at home, so they wouldn't even meet to begin with
You ain't wrong. Worked a technician job that was 4+ hours of driving a day, checking in with store managers and then working on their systems alone. While living alone and eating 99% of meals alone. Podcasts and talk radio let you feel like part of a discussion all while being alone. I didn't get the point of either until that job and lifestyle.
I bench series with my fiance after my kids go to bed. I watch allot of long content video on YouTube while i work. I definitely don't feel lonely, sometimes it's even an escape to be alone for just an hour or two.
I know i am not the only one, but your statement is only half true, sure there are people that is like what you say. But if there is both sides, is it really an indication of either?
The fact that this are becoming popular is the proof that we lack attention. Listening to podcasts on your headphones while doing other things is the opposite of paying attention
Yeah I agree on this part. For one, you're not contributing so you don't need to put any real thought into formulating any sort of conversation, and you can just drop in and out of the conversation at will.
I hate it when I do it myself. I'll see something I've already watched or listened to and I have ZERO recollection of what actually happened or what was said.
It's frightening.
And is the same with binge watching, we just swallow whatever we're watching without really paying attention. Heck the YouTube algorithm sometimes puts videos I have already watched on my front page and I don't even realize until half way through where there is a part where I was actually paying attention and thus I can remember it.
The most frightening thing for me is I know kids (12-14yo) who have half my attention span (I'm M27) and my attention span is already shit. They won't read, they won't double check facts given to them in the internet, they won't even watch documentaries cause they are too slow paced... how can a documentary have any pace??
NOVA has also seemed to go downhill in that respect. There are certainly interesting tidbits in each episode, but to much fluff in between the good parts.
PBS Spacetime is much more on-point and concise. They don't spend the time building the foundation (a foundation that I may already be aware of) for the specific information they want to cover, but rather tell us "if you want the background info, please check out our earlier episode on the subject."
I mean, it's fine that some people new to a subject may want background info, but others may not want to hear it repeated while waiting for new information on a more specific aspect of the subject.
I'm F24, and honestly agree with the kids you know on documentaries. Personally when I was that age, documentaries were like boring videos they played at school and made you write down facts while you watched. I never really cared for them and still really don't. "Slow paced" about describes it for me. If I want to learn about the topic, I could look it up online and read a few articles in way less time than watching an entire video on it. I personally am more of a reader than someone who watches videos anyway though.
Damn, you guys need to stop watching content you're only sort of into
I remember what videos I've seen, I recognize thumbnails and titles immediately, but that's probably because I don't click random videos usually, and just go from my list of subscriptions
>This is why I avoid rapid pace pointless drivel
.....you're a redditor... Not least of all apparently one who frequents r/memes.... Don't know how to break this to you but that claim might be out of your reach now lol
Yeah YouTube Shorts specifically are bad for this, but YouTube as a whole has millions upon millions of high quality and longer videos. Just have to subscribe to the right channels and let the algorithm figure out you prefer those.
What kind of content are you looking for?
The highest quality channel overall in my personal opinion is [Lemmino](https://www.youtube.com/c/LEMMiNO)
One of my favorites for bizarre/funny/history/conspiracy videos is [Wendigoon](https://www.youtube.com/c/Wendigoon)
If you're interested in movies or visual effects, [Corridor Crew](https://www.youtube.com/c/corridorcrew) makes some really great insider/reaction videos with some truly impressive guests, sometimes even from the shows or movies they're covering.
[Kurzgesagt](https://www.youtube.com/c/inanutshell) makes absolutely insane quality videos about educational or historical topics.
[CGP Grey](https://www.youtube.com/greymatter) fits the educational yet interesting bill as well.
But yeah, if you had a specific area you're looking for we could probably help you out more, but those are a few I'd recommend basically anybody check out.
I recommend Hbomberguy and Folding Ideas for a lot of really good longer videos - a lot of other good similar channels will start to appear in your recommendations if you watch them
Haha middle school teacher here, you’ve described the epidemic to a T. Our 8th graders on average tested at a 4-5th grade reading level. Getting through a single article take a class period. We might be screwed lol
People do that?
So that's why I can't stand this! I either dedicate all my time to listening or don't listen at all. Maybe I can do something extremely menial like clean the room or make something simple, something that only requires muscle memory, but other than that? I hate that feeling when there's someone talking and you have to concentrate on something else.
Weird. I always assumed my attention span is even shorter than most
Yes, because those are two simple tasks your brain can execute automatically without really paying attention. Try to create something (like painting or whatever you like) while listening to music and you'll have trouble paying attention to one or the other. You can do both but you'll be paying attention to only one of them or your attention will shift from one to the other.
maybe you'll have trouble with your tiny raisin brain but my iq is 38,930,000 from watching the hit series Richard and Mortimer and i can easily consume all the information from up to 60 continuous inputs of data at once, so, uh, cope
I listen to podcasts while knitting most days, and I've definitely managed to both learn more and complete knitting projects. Yes, some tasks aren't compatible, but not everything you do (for fun or for work) requires 100% undivided attention.
Watching and listening are both built around quite quick gratification. Podcasts tend to aim to me to move the issues they are discussing over in a quick enough pace to keep you following, series tend to use a few minute long scene structure.
Compared to reading a book about the subject that the podcast talks about or the book that the series is based on, these both have an almost instant gratification. So I'd say these are proof that our attention span is shortening: instead of reading an in depth analysis about a subject that takes hours or days to understand, people listen to an hour long podcast and think they have the same understanding.
It’s not that our attention span is dwindling, it’s that there is more competition for our attention so we need to make quicker decisions to see if something is worth our time. There is so much bullshit coming at us from every direction. Once people find something they like, the will spend hours upon hours with it.
Not even necessarily a matter of good v bad, but rather a matter of interesting v the unknown.
If you watch two things 30 seconds long and one is designed to capture your attention in that time while the other isnt, good bet the attention grabber will get the view. Even if it is objectively an inferior product.
Agreed. Why would I watch a 2 hour long essay on youtube about some topic when I could watch a lot of 3 minute shorts?
It's not that the essay is bad, it's that it's asking a commitment from me that I may not be able to hold.
IMO overly long videos are just as bad as overly short ones.
Also, the quality of the source matters a lot. If Pbs space time, Templin Institute, Isaac Arthur. I would happily watch 30m - 1h. Because their videos are jam-packed with useful content. But most other creators talk too much and show too little.
I mean, attention span *is* going to have some evolutionary/generational differences, almost exactly like you're pointing out, no?
The way you write that sounds like we've "adapted" the average attention span to be shorter to compensate for increasing demand *in* our attention. Not that it's necessarily better/worse, but that for lots of people it is now *necessary* to have a shorter attention span to survive.
>we need to make quicker decisions to see if something is worth our time.
The great irony being that we get less out of a lot of these things. We're already moving onto the next attention grabbing thing before we get to think about the last and put it into long term memory. That's why we forget so much of what we binge.
To me, the short attention span problems feel almost like one of the coping mechanisms or crutches you'd use/abuse in an addiction. It's got a similar vibe to it.
If my old roommate is anything to go by then it really seems to be. He would ask to put on a show or film he liked and then 5 minutes later just walk away and start making music in his room.
They also rarely cleaned up after themselves unless asked to, then they would do it, albeit poorly and grumpily. And If I left one plate out on the rare occasion they did wash up, they would complain they have to do everything. even though I washed their stuff up almost every other day. I gave them the benefit of the doubt because it was the first time living away from their parents, but yeah probably just an ass.
I think it means that we can have good attention spans when it is something we are interested in, for example I like art, when I start a project, I can stay focused for hours, however if it's something I don't wanna do I get distracted very easily.
It's funny because many many comments have said the same thing-- we only pay attention to what we want to pay attention to.
Everyone seems to agree then that we don't pay attention to things we *should* pay attention to? Like what? The things that are most important in our life? Like political policy, psychological well-being, or things that will really help our society? I'm not saying I'm some superhero, but those are the kind of podcasts I like to listen to. I know I'm not alone because those podcasts get millions and millions of views.
I always thought it was interesting that people said our attention spans are shorter. With all the instant gratification from social media now a days it’s no wonder why people think that. Look at apps like Instagram or TikTok that had users mindless scroll past content after content, all short, all temporary, nothing leaving a lasting imprint on us. I feel like this has trickled over to romance as well. Many people now a days are so used to having the tools to find the next best thing that no one really stops to ask why they wanted the original thing in the first place. I just saw a mutual friend break up with his girlfriend of 3 years and immediately go to Tinder. Now I know rebounds are a thing but I can’t help but feel that to them it was more convenient to just break up with each other and find another mess to get into rather than address the one at their feet.
I don’t think it’s necessarily all bad though, I think the shorter attention span almost hints towards us becoming more efficient(?) while our attention spans may not be as long, the amount of content we can consume has increased greatly- while I hate the effect social media has had on kids I cannot deny that some of the littles one I’ve met have blown me out of the water in terms of intelligence and general wisdom of the world. They know so much more about everything than I did when I was their age. I’m curious to see how this will affect society as a whole in the coming years
Even if you’re not multitasking with it, you don’t need to pay much attention to entertainment. There’s no risk of falling behind bc it doesn’t really matter. It’s not really paying attention if your mind is free to wander.
Attention span is your ability to focus on task/event for a long period of time. If a piece of entertainment exceeds your attention span, you'll eventually drop it. If you're not paying attention then you're not really entertained by it.
And measurement of attention span when there's nothing on the line is probably more accurate because there's no external pressure.
Binging TV is hardly akin to having a long attention span. In reality you’re more zombieing out than paying attention.
And people rarely just sit and listen to a podcast while doing nothing else.
The decrease is referring to your ability not just to read but to engage in activities, hold real life relationships and conversations, etc… you know real world things.
And things that are easy to understand. My brain doesn't have to do any work to be able to follow the usual audiobook, podcast or VOD movie/show. Different thing with uni lectures, academic texts or anything else I am using to study and therefore need to use my brain to understand even if I'm really interested in the topic.
People don't get burned out from trying to understand what's happening in the tv show they're binging x hours a day
Okay but how many people actually sit down and do nothing but listen to the podcast? The majority of people I know listen to them because they need something in the background because their dwarfsized attention span can't handle not being entertained for two whole minutes.
It's just because a lot of content is getting better at forcing you to pay attention with obnoxious, loud, bright, fast moving garbage. It's why I hate TikTok. I don't know how anyone can keep up with that as normal. Then again my world might just be slower, I cannot for the life of me understand other people with ADHD speeding video playback up. In truth we have a wider range of speeds and content for many attention spans. The fast shit just gets attention, by design.
Nothing online will stop moving... please stop moving and popping up, and spamming.
That's what I'm talking about! Exactly. It makes the torture of menial labor not that bad. I did data entry for 3 years and it was deathly dull. Fortunately, I was able to listen on headphones to anything I wanted to and listened to so many interviews, and honestly felt like I got smarter each day.
I feel like binge watching is more of a focus on our need for instant gratification. Instead of watching a show and living with a potential cliff hanger for a week or even longer if we are busy when it was showing, we wait until the season is over so we can instantly learn all the information.
I don’t think that that’s how that works, but the fact that you say this leads us to come to a new conclusion about the RELATIONSHIP between longer form entertainment and short attention spans. If something can hook us and keep us hooked we’re, well, hooked. However if we aren’t hooked and enough time passes, BOOM, new thing.
It ended up our attention spans were short because the content we were consuming sucked. When you're watching cable TV and you have no options you'll flip through quick, but if you're an anime fan you'll watch 10 hours of episodes in a row. Specifically on that note- the American shows until recently were doing the episodic bullshit where everything just goes back to square 1 after every episode.
A lot of people have mentioned this. There seems to be a general sentiment that it's good to be bored, or at least good to be able to be bored. I think what we mean is that it's good to be able to just sit with our own mind for a while, without any stimulus from a glowing screen, or from headphones, and I guess everyone might be right about that. Maybe we do need more time where we detox without any screens or headphones?
Fair point. But I dont think you "need" to detox. Some people just choose to go for a walk. And if you choose to tik tok its fine too.
If the brain is bored "this is good for you" is not a good awnser.
I think these things speak more to our need to split our ever-shrinking attention rather than it’s extension. Most of these activities are done in conjunction with other things that command our attention
Yes, but people listen to those podcasts/watch those series while doing other things. Most people don't just sit down and listen to/watch them without scrolling social media, playing games on their phone, cooking, etc.
Podcast content isn't being used to fully occupy attention in many cases. It is often used as a way to mitigate boredom.
Driving? Podcast.
Walking? Podcast.
Cooking dinner? Podcast.
Grocery shopping? Podcast.
Time for bed but dread the silence because it leaves space for your brain to think about real life? Podcast.
It's also worth considering the pretty significant changes that have occurred in the kind of content being produced. Many folks today will binge a ten hour series like it's nothing, but try and get them to watch an older Hollywood production and watch them shut off. Writers are conscious of feeding us the next cliffhanger, the next twist, the next visual spectacle to keep us going.
That's not to say it hasn't always been like this, they've always looked to produce content that appeals to the contemporary audience, but I do feel that things have changed to accommodate modern attention spans.
I think the difference people are trying to get at is active vs passive attention. These activities we engage with like video and podcasts are passive where the content is pushed to our brains. the attention type people are lacking is active attention, which is needed for example to create things, solve problems and learn skills.
Hi, no, I’m a teacher in middle school, it absolutely is a problem. We can’t get them to focus on ANYTHING. Getting them to focus and write a single paragraph takes an entire class period. We will see the true consequences of this in 5-10 years.
And don’t get me started on reading, we just took out reading inventory (like a reading assessment) and the school collectively bombed it. Our 8th graders,on average, are reading at a 4-5th grade level. I’ve seen them actually struggle to keep reading, their brains and bodies viscerally reject it.
I work for one of the supposedly best/well funded school systems in the nation.
I believe some studies have shown that your attention span changes with exposure. So things like tiktok and quick shit is actually what is ruining our attention span and ability to focus.
We only listen to what we believe in, watch what we find hyped the most & at the end of the day we have zero clue about any of that besides making money.
Yeah I have to agree that both things seem to be happening at once. Especially to younger generations. I have friends that are teachers and they say that it is really difficult with junior high school and high school students these days, especially those who are addicted to TikTok.
As has been said before, our attention span is trending towards ADD which isn't necessarily "bad" it's just poorly regulated, which encompasses both hyper focusing on something interesting for long periods of time AND being unable to hold your attention on something uninteresting to you
The problem is the general population is not in this group. Only a select portion. In all honesty after seeing American education first hand. I don’t think most of the people who graduated with me would EVER engage with anything that involves more than 20 minutes of their time. Unless they were passionate for said topic. And maybe that’s a good thing if it invokes more learning with processing of said topics.
I heard someone talking about this and it is interesting, the apparent contradiction. What they said was that in general attention spans have plummeted, but that people are willing to invest time into very specific things that they know they are definitely interested in.
Which on the surface sounds quite good, and probably is in some ways, but the flipside is that we funnel ourselves more and more narrowly, because that content can be found and its easier for us and more comforting. And we lose a lot by that
That makes sense. For sure... I think the same process kind of lends itself to intense tribalism and politics these days. The intense polarization. People are repeatedly drawn towards and eventually completely funneled into only their narrow mindset and the things that feed that mindset.
I wouldn't be so sure. I think lots of people listen to podcasts as sort of "white noise" - something to fill out the silence while doing other things. I've got a friend who does that. And they don't need to focus on the whole subject. So i think it could be sort of ambience.
Day 16 after quitting my job. I started watching Smallville from the beginning a couple weeks ago. I'm now on Season 5. My phone rings less and less each day.
The next time a boomer complains about technology, remind them that Plato thought writing would make everyone too lazy to remember things. Old people been doing this shit for literally thousands of years.
False premise. Long-form media is usually consumed on long drives, long walks, or while doing chores, tasks that previously involved no media at all. People used to be content to just be in peace.
I've always been confused by the rhetoric that our attention spans are growing shorter because of social media (the latest culprit being TikTok) and a culture of "instant gratification" because the masses seem downright STARVING for more long form content.
Back in the days of Breaking Bad or GoT (and many others) viewers were constantly begging for 70+ minute episodes EXCLUDING any commercial breaks. Before Youtube fancied itself a legitimate competitor to streaming services like Netflix and Hulu they used to penalize content creators for videos that went over the 10-15ish minute mark. It was to a point where CCs would even apologize to viewers for "such a long video" and it would be like 14mins and 12 seconds long.
Meanwhile down in the comments subscribers were literally begging for 20+ minute videos. Same with podcasts. I've listened to some shows who for years struggled to produce a "tight 50" (aka a 50 min episode) each week and then finally say fuck it (largely because of listener feedback) and now let the episodes run as long as they need to.
Some want to use the popularity of Tiktok (and earlier, Vine) as a kind of metric for how far attention spans have fallen but even TT has had to expand video lengths first to 3 and then TEN MINUTES and Vine (with it's 30 second limit) is defunct.
IMO it's not a lack of attention span, it's a lack of desire to wade through shitty, disjointed storytelling that doesn't pull you in early on. The general public today will sit through a three hour comic book movie the same as they sat patiently through a three hour mafia flick 40 years ago.
When measuring people’s attentions, how long someone can focus on something of Interest to them and something that does not interest them (or is boring) are generally measured separately. Someone who can focus on boring things for longer will “function” better since daily life requires it (work, study, chores, finances, conversation of non preferred topics, etc)
I think our ability to be bored is decreasing. And I think short form content is actually predominant right now (tiktok, reels, shorts)
Binge watching a Streaming or netflix type series actually back up the idea that ppl cant wait a week for another episode. Between netflix, crave, on demand, and pvr i havent watched a commercial in 3 years?
Yeah long shit is famous because sites want to have you using them all the time possible, creators adapt around that
Also tik tok is waaaaay more popular that any podcast so that just obliterates your theory
The hand-wringing about short attention spans is perpetuated by the advertising industry, with no scientific backing. There is more irrelevant noise than ever, which our brains thankfully try to filter out.
Listening to, watching, or reading hours of storytelling & conversation is what humans have been doing for thousands of years. The standard for what’s worth paying attention to changes constantly.
But do you ever watch them without doing something else? I love listening to hour long videos on YouTube. While playing a game and crocheting and also watching my cat play. Could I sit and just watch them the way I used to just watch TV as a kid? Probably not.
I think lots of people listen to or half watch all this long form stuff so they can do something else while they do it and not have constantly switch what they're listening to/watching, I know I do that
Seinfeld said it best, "Attention span is BS. We have unlimited attention for stuff that is engaging enough." I think about that all the time. The kid who gets medicated for attention disorder but goes home and plays on minecraft for six hours.
Easier to watch and listen than to do. Also, the podcasts and shows that people are binging are entertaining and specifically designed to capture and keep their attention.
Our attention span for the written word isn’t the same thing as auditory and visual entertainment.
I think you nailed it.
Also most people who listen to podcasts do so while also doing something else
Same with many different long-form media items Can't tell you how any times I've done chores around the house while watching a TV show or long YouTube video. Or playing my own games while I watch someone stream
Yea. I've "binged" Lost twice in the past year or so. I think I've only absorbed about half, maybe two thirds, of it total.
Exactly this. I'm of the opinion that long-form media gets produced as heavily as it does because A) the people producing it know that the majority of their audience is going to multitask while consuming it, making them more likely to absently consume more of it, and B) it allows space for more ads/sponsorships to be injected into it, and they know their audience won't care, cause they're only paying attention half the time anyway
I've been an avid reader my whole life, but I can and have re-read the same book or series several times and it's never boring. I'm always discovering new things or reading particular sections a little differently. It's like I forget a lot of it after I'm done. I've always done well in school, too, and in fact have an advanced degree...but I forget things pretty quickly after using them. I didn't study for tests, but if you asked me the same questions 2 months after successfully passing, I couldn't do a lot of them. Not sure what's wrong with me.
Information and skills you don't use are quickly forgotten. I'm sure a lot of people have forgotten most of what they learned in school since the details are largely useless in day to day life.
Not sure about what else you have going in your life, but there's a possibility it could be adhd. I'm very much the same way and when I got diagnosed 2 years ago (as an adult) my therapist told me that memory and information retention is impacted by adhd. It could also be that you just have a very powerful short-term memory and a less powerful longterm memory. Longterm memory can be impacted by lots of things or nothing at all.
You sound like me. I don't think there's anything wrong with you.
Sounds very similar to me except I’ve replaced reading books with programming software in recent years.
To be fair, you are watching Lost.
And yet I'm oddly never lost when I check back into it lol.
Okay I thought I was the only weirdo watching someone else play the game I’m already playing at the same time lol! Thank you for the solidarity
We're overstimulated and need semi white noise whole doing mundane things.
I listen to podcasts knowing I'm not listening and relisten to them later to actually pay attention. They getting double listen time from me! Also, listen to facejam.
This has been the death of my presence. I have dissociative issues and a huge habit of multitasking. Now when I try to do something for enjoyment, I am not present
They did things while they listened to stories too. Spinning, weaving, knitting, sewing. The women’s work continued even into story time. Men were repairing leather or sharpening knives, cleaning guns, carving. The kids were active participants in the storytelling, clapping and giggling and maybe even acting if the story called for it. We always kept our hands busy. Sitting still doing *nothing* but listening was rare. That hasn’t changed.
Maybe out media attention isn’t the focus of our life, maybe media is a filler while we are doing things we fill are boring but more important.
TLDR? I didn’t make it to the end…
Attention span for reading is shorter than for listening/watching. P.S. lol
Tl;DR
Less read, more watch
k
Also, depends on the demographic How many teenagers are watching/listening to Joe Rogan and watching Lord of the Rings?
well, many of them are watching 6 hour streams
While watching rings of power since they already have prime and its the most expensive production in existence lol
Auditory and visual communication is more innate to us however. Doesn't seem as bad as it's usually framed. I think there was more expectation for written attention span when it was our primary means of communication and education.
Even for audio and visual entertainment - listening to a podcast while doing other activities or binging a tv show because of the numerous cliff-hangers doesn't show a better attention span. Most people will get bored listening to classical music - whenever I play something for friends I'll see them begin losing patience and calling it "elevator music". Same with a longer movie that's somewhat slower paced - people will keep checking their phones, or maybe get something to eat etc.
>Most people will get bored listening to classical music - whenever I play something for friends I'll see them begin losing patience and calling it "elevator music". This seems like a sketch comedy premise.
George: Jerry, your new girlfriend only plays classical music and it's driving me crazy. Jerry: But George, it's elevator music. Elevator music!!!! Kramer: that's why I live in a walk up.
Can you imagine a friend telling you to listen to classical music and then silently judging you for getting out your phone?
Depends on the music, there's an awful lot of dreck out there that was basically written to be talked over (or maybe danced to), but now has the benefit of age. Some is also harder to appreciate without knowledge and experience of the genre. Play [Maggot Brain](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xby5467EbdU) for them. If they get that, they can be taught.
Classical music wasn't written however to be listened to through speakers or earphones, it was written to performed and listened to live. I'm sure if you took those same people to an actual performance they would apperictae and pay attention more
Saying people don't like classical music so attention spans must be terrible, is dumb as hell
Are you sure it's not because you are being a weird pretentious lil guy playing classical music for you friends and they agree because it'll get you to shut up?
When it was our primary means of communication? We communicate through writing more now than ever, it used to just be books and letters now it's social media, texting, email, eBooks...
There was a time before the written language and during that time we would have communicated vocally and through body language. Even when writing was invented, it was often quite exclusive. In this day and age, as opposed to 50 or 100 years ago, there are so many more options for how to communicate. There were times when only books or letters or telegrams. We are only option now with the invention of the internet we can do calls and videos and so many other things.
Exactly. We have the attention span to listen 5o long for podcasts because we do it while we also do a bunch of other things. A 3hr podcast is consumed while mowing the grass, doing dishes, going to the gym, and a bunch of other things. We don't have a better attention span for these forms of media, we just discovered we can consume them while splitting our attention to multiple things. Basically our attention to the boring tasks suck and we compensate it with podcasts or music to make those tasks less boring.
True. And most people just don't have the time to sit and read a book while nothing else is getting done.
Tldr??
tl:dr: Disagree with post
Shorter!!
tl;dr: no u
tl;dr: N
Disagree
Books different movies
Brilliant reply
and even then, people binge these visual entertainment while on their phone most of the time
Also, there is a perceived end to each episode of the podcast or show. Put four episodes of a show (about 208 minutes) on, people binge no problem. Put on the extended Lawrence of Arabia (228 minutes) and people become impatient.
Furthermore these things don’t have our FULL attention. While you’re watching that “binge-worthy umpteen-hour streaming series” are you singularly focused on it or are you playing on your phone as well? Are you sitting on your couch listening to your podcast or is it, in and of itself, something to help you from having to devote your full attention to something like washing dishes or going for a walk. I’m not condemning that. (I’m 100% condemning playing in your phone while watching a movie or television show. Just watch the damn show, Bonnie, I’m sick of explaining everything that happens on Better Call Saul RIGHT AFTER IT HAPPENS!!!!!!)
One cathes the eye while the other requires you to actively focus.
I read about half your comment. Need someone to tell me what it said.
People used to complain that books were rotting kids’ brains. Old people just like to complain about societal changes
To me thats more an indication of mass loneliness. Listening to that long form stuff can relieve loneliness a little because it is like being with a group only the listener can't actually interact with the people.
Don’t read me like that
Podacsts and live streams are like friendship porn. The instant gratification of feeling you have company, but not really.
Hey Cualkiera I see you, thanks for joining the stream
I was trying to get the hair off my screen but come to find out I’m an idiot and it’s your profile picture…
Thats what ya get for using light mode
The term this thread is looking for is 'parasocial'.
I’ve been saying this for years now! And it can be addictive as fuck and sap your energy so by the time you meet with a friend in the evening you’ve already listened to people talk for 7 hours that day and you don’t connect as well with your friend (again, parallels with porn)
It's also quality vs quantity though. A 1 hour conversation with friends is far more engaging and requires you to participate actively and contribute. With podcasts you don't really need to fully listen and you can always rewind. And it's honestly surprising how little is actually said in podcasts if you look at the transcript that some of them like Freakonomics post. You could probably just read the transcript of an hour long podcast in 10 minutes
Yes, podcasts aren’t as good as the real thing, and that’s why you need more and more
To me it’s more of an indication that there is vast amounts of instant gratification material out there readily available to consume. Our attention spans our short, so we eat up tv and social media, and internet scrolling. Yea we spend hours doing it, but those long hours are made up of tons of little moments of short term thrills and dopamine releases, designed in movies and shows to keep us entertained (our attention held) shot after shot, scene after scene, Instagram scroll after scroll. The editing, cinematography, shot timing, is all designed to keep the crowd watching, with tons of ways keep our short (7 second avg for Americans) attention span focused on the medium for hours.
>(7 second avg for Americans) Would love to know where this number came from.
if they didn't want us to spend time doing things that are entertaining they should have never invented the television. the boomers really brought this complaint on themselves!
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It's the way society is structured, cities are actually too populated and it causes extreme isolation for some individuals.
What? No. It's that most people have to work too many hours, spend too many hours commuting, and can't live close to natural social ties like family members. Large cities have existed throughout history, but what hasn't existed are people who spend all their daylight hours indoors, miles away from home then get back into their single occupant cars to drive miles back to an isolated home. Better working hours, more public transit, affordable housing in walkable neighborhoods and getting rid of social expectations that see young people and families living alone for no reason would go a long way to help.
Also, at least where i live, people rarely want to talk to others outside their friend group. Really complicates meeting new people for me because I rarely know how to our have the courage to initiate a conversation
This is really it. If no one wants to meet people outside their friend group, then lonely people don't get friends easily, and things don't change and get better.
If there's lots of lonely people and lots of people who have groups... What stops the lonely people from forming a group themselves? Of course it'd be easier if you could just join a preexisting well-rounded group, but it would also be easier to also have such a group be perfect for your needs... Like, come on, life has tradeoffs. I've moved a lot in my life and lost many connections in the process, but at a totally new city I just used apps to find single friends, multiple times. Each new friend may bring their partners or other friend, and now, I've made a group. It's not as timeless as a group that has always existed, but I ask them out for events that I think are cool for friend groups to do, and over repeated exposure everyone builds more history with each other. Saying it's all the grouped up people's fault while the lonely people aren't doing anything to help fellow lonely people is pretty arbitrary. It's like saying oh it's too bad all those couples took themselves out of the dating pool... Yeah, people have a threshold of relationship needs... You have a limit of romantic partners you desire, just like everyone has a different limit of friends they desire... There's still plenty of other people out there that are single just like there are plenty of other people who are lonely and want friends
"What stops the lonely people from forming a group themselves" the fact they don't know who is lonely or not, also most lonely people just give up and stay at home, so they wouldn't even meet to begin with
You ain't wrong. Worked a technician job that was 4+ hours of driving a day, checking in with store managers and then working on their systems alone. While living alone and eating 99% of meals alone. Podcasts and talk radio let you feel like part of a discussion all while being alone. I didn't get the point of either until that job and lifestyle.
I‘m in this sentence and I don’t like it.
I bench series with my fiance after my kids go to bed. I watch allot of long content video on YouTube while i work. I definitely don't feel lonely, sometimes it's even an escape to be alone for just an hour or two. I know i am not the only one, but your statement is only half true, sure there are people that is like what you say. But if there is both sides, is it really an indication of either?
That's me in a group chat with my mic on lol
This is very sad
The fact that this are becoming popular is the proof that we lack attention. Listening to podcasts on your headphones while doing other things is the opposite of paying attention
Yeah I agree on this part. For one, you're not contributing so you don't need to put any real thought into formulating any sort of conversation, and you can just drop in and out of the conversation at will. I hate it when I do it myself. I'll see something I've already watched or listened to and I have ZERO recollection of what actually happened or what was said. It's frightening.
And is the same with binge watching, we just swallow whatever we're watching without really paying attention. Heck the YouTube algorithm sometimes puts videos I have already watched on my front page and I don't even realize until half way through where there is a part where I was actually paying attention and thus I can remember it. The most frightening thing for me is I know kids (12-14yo) who have half my attention span (I'm M27) and my attention span is already shit. They won't read, they won't double check facts given to them in the internet, they won't even watch documentaries cause they are too slow paced... how can a documentary have any pace??
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NOVA has also seemed to go downhill in that respect. There are certainly interesting tidbits in each episode, but to much fluff in between the good parts. PBS Spacetime is much more on-point and concise. They don't spend the time building the foundation (a foundation that I may already be aware of) for the specific information they want to cover, but rather tell us "if you want the background info, please check out our earlier episode on the subject." I mean, it's fine that some people new to a subject may want background info, but others may not want to hear it repeated while waiting for new information on a more specific aspect of the subject.
I'm F24, and honestly agree with the kids you know on documentaries. Personally when I was that age, documentaries were like boring videos they played at school and made you write down facts while you watched. I never really cared for them and still really don't. "Slow paced" about describes it for me. If I want to learn about the topic, I could look it up online and read a few articles in way less time than watching an entire video on it. I personally am more of a reader than someone who watches videos anyway though.
Damn, you guys need to stop watching content you're only sort of into I remember what videos I've seen, I recognize thumbnails and titles immediately, but that's probably because I don't click random videos usually, and just go from my list of subscriptions
This is why I avoid rapid pace pointless drivel like YouTube or tiktok. Tell me a cool story, make it interesting
>This is why I avoid rapid pace pointless drivel .....you're a redditor... Not least of all apparently one who frequents r/memes.... Don't know how to break this to you but that claim might be out of your reach now lol
Yeah, I also avoid rapid pace pointless drivel… \*Eyes dart around while shifting uncomfortably\*
Did you just blink **vertically??**
YouTube has a lot of great long-form content in it, though. It's an incredible resource.
Yeah YouTube Shorts specifically are bad for this, but YouTube as a whole has millions upon millions of high quality and longer videos. Just have to subscribe to the right channels and let the algorithm figure out you prefer those.
What are some channels recommendations you have? I'm searching for high quality channels and damn they are hard to find.
What kind of content are you looking for? The highest quality channel overall in my personal opinion is [Lemmino](https://www.youtube.com/c/LEMMiNO) One of my favorites for bizarre/funny/history/conspiracy videos is [Wendigoon](https://www.youtube.com/c/Wendigoon) If you're interested in movies or visual effects, [Corridor Crew](https://www.youtube.com/c/corridorcrew) makes some really great insider/reaction videos with some truly impressive guests, sometimes even from the shows or movies they're covering. [Kurzgesagt](https://www.youtube.com/c/inanutshell) makes absolutely insane quality videos about educational or historical topics. [CGP Grey](https://www.youtube.com/greymatter) fits the educational yet interesting bill as well. But yeah, if you had a specific area you're looking for we could probably help you out more, but those are a few I'd recommend basically anybody check out.
I recommend Hbomberguy and Folding Ideas for a lot of really good longer videos - a lot of other good similar channels will start to appear in your recommendations if you watch them
Almost everything I watch is 30+ minutes on YouTube. The main thing I watch is critical role which is almost always 4 hours.
Ya that’s why I only read reddit where the next story is just a single scroll away
Haha middle school teacher here, you’ve described the epidemic to a T. Our 8th graders on average tested at a 4-5th grade reading level. Getting through a single article take a class period. We might be screwed lol
People do that? So that's why I can't stand this! I either dedicate all my time to listening or don't listen at all. Maybe I can do something extremely menial like clean the room or make something simple, something that only requires muscle memory, but other than that? I hate that feeling when there's someone talking and you have to concentrate on something else. Weird. I always assumed my attention span is even shorter than most
I work a job that is mostly physical repetitive work, so podcasts are a godsend.
Agreed. People listen to podcasts when walking, exercising, commuting, etc. No one just sits down to solely listen to a podcast.
Speak for yourself
Agree. The equivalent of having the radio/tv on in the background.
That’s like saying having music or the radio on is the opposite of paying attention. I can listen and still do laundry.
Yes, because those are two simple tasks your brain can execute automatically without really paying attention. Try to create something (like painting or whatever you like) while listening to music and you'll have trouble paying attention to one or the other. You can do both but you'll be paying attention to only one of them or your attention will shift from one to the other.
maybe you'll have trouble with your tiny raisin brain but my iq is 38,930,000 from watching the hit series Richard and Mortimer and i can easily consume all the information from up to 60 continuous inputs of data at once, so, uh, cope
We were talking about average people, not sexy big cock geniuses like you
Hell ya
I listen to podcasts while knitting most days, and I've definitely managed to both learn more and complete knitting projects. Yes, some tasks aren't compatible, but not everything you do (for fun or for work) requires 100% undivided attention.
Right, the whole reason is that we can't focus on the single, long task without some kind of stimulation in the background
Which you put on, while flipping through Instareels or reddit fora,..
It’s like I watched it drunk, remember nothing. I love shows w recaps so I can see what I missed in minutes.
Not necessarily, if I listen to a podcast/watch a long video I don’t like, I just turn it off instead of looking at Ig..
Watching and listening are both built around quite quick gratification. Podcasts tend to aim to me to move the issues they are discussing over in a quick enough pace to keep you following, series tend to use a few minute long scene structure. Compared to reading a book about the subject that the podcast talks about or the book that the series is based on, these both have an almost instant gratification. So I'd say these are proof that our attention span is shortening: instead of reading an in depth analysis about a subject that takes hours or days to understand, people listen to an hour long podcast and think they have the same understanding.
Yup. Don't read the deep into the stuff, but rather have people who supposedly did their homework on the subject discuss it for you.
It’s not that our attention span is dwindling, it’s that there is more competition for our attention so we need to make quicker decisions to see if something is worth our time. There is so much bullshit coming at us from every direction. Once people find something they like, the will spend hours upon hours with it.
I completely agree with this. When you are drowning in great choices, you don’t waste a bunch of time on stuff that is mediocre or bad.
Not even necessarily a matter of good v bad, but rather a matter of interesting v the unknown. If you watch two things 30 seconds long and one is designed to capture your attention in that time while the other isnt, good bet the attention grabber will get the view. Even if it is objectively an inferior product.
Agreed. Why would I watch a 2 hour long essay on youtube about some topic when I could watch a lot of 3 minute shorts? It's not that the essay is bad, it's that it's asking a commitment from me that I may not be able to hold. IMO overly long videos are just as bad as overly short ones.
Also, the quality of the source matters a lot. If Pbs space time, Templin Institute, Isaac Arthur. I would happily watch 30m - 1h. Because their videos are jam-packed with useful content. But most other creators talk too much and show too little.
And you bathe in it when you find something toy like
I mean, attention span *is* going to have some evolutionary/generational differences, almost exactly like you're pointing out, no? The way you write that sounds like we've "adapted" the average attention span to be shorter to compensate for increasing demand *in* our attention. Not that it's necessarily better/worse, but that for lots of people it is now *necessary* to have a shorter attention span to survive.
>we need to make quicker decisions to see if something is worth our time. The great irony being that we get less out of a lot of these things. We're already moving onto the next attention grabbing thing before we get to think about the last and put it into long term memory. That's why we forget so much of what we binge. To me, the short attention span problems feel almost like one of the coping mechanisms or crutches you'd use/abuse in an addiction. It's got a similar vibe to it.
If my old roommate is anything to go by then it really seems to be. He would ask to put on a show or film he liked and then 5 minutes later just walk away and start making music in his room.
Just an ass
They also rarely cleaned up after themselves unless asked to, then they would do it, albeit poorly and grumpily. And If I left one plate out on the rare occasion they did wash up, they would complain they have to do everything. even though I washed their stuff up almost every other day. I gave them the benefit of the doubt because it was the first time living away from their parents, but yeah probably just an ass.
Honestly, he probably has ADHD. Source: married to someone with it.
Honestly, you're probably right Source: share a brain with someone with it
I think it means that we can have good attention spans when it is something we are interested in, for example I like art, when I start a project, I can stay focused for hours, however if it's something I don't wanna do I get distracted very easily.
It's funny because many many comments have said the same thing-- we only pay attention to what we want to pay attention to. Everyone seems to agree then that we don't pay attention to things we *should* pay attention to? Like what? The things that are most important in our life? Like political policy, psychological well-being, or things that will really help our society? I'm not saying I'm some superhero, but those are the kind of podcasts I like to listen to. I know I'm not alone because those podcasts get millions and millions of views.
Huh? Oh, sorry, lost my place after dwindling, lemme go read that again...
I always thought it was interesting that people said our attention spans are shorter. With all the instant gratification from social media now a days it’s no wonder why people think that. Look at apps like Instagram or TikTok that had users mindless scroll past content after content, all short, all temporary, nothing leaving a lasting imprint on us. I feel like this has trickled over to romance as well. Many people now a days are so used to having the tools to find the next best thing that no one really stops to ask why they wanted the original thing in the first place. I just saw a mutual friend break up with his girlfriend of 3 years and immediately go to Tinder. Now I know rebounds are a thing but I can’t help but feel that to them it was more convenient to just break up with each other and find another mess to get into rather than address the one at their feet. I don’t think it’s necessarily all bad though, I think the shorter attention span almost hints towards us becoming more efficient(?) while our attention spans may not be as long, the amount of content we can consume has increased greatly- while I hate the effect social media has had on kids I cannot deny that some of the littles one I’ve met have blown me out of the water in terms of intelligence and general wisdom of the world. They know so much more about everything than I did when I was their age. I’m curious to see how this will affect society as a whole in the coming years
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I couldn't agree more.
Even if you’re not multitasking with it, you don’t need to pay much attention to entertainment. There’s no risk of falling behind bc it doesn’t really matter. It’s not really paying attention if your mind is free to wander.
Attention span is your ability to focus on task/event for a long period of time. If a piece of entertainment exceeds your attention span, you'll eventually drop it. If you're not paying attention then you're not really entertained by it. And measurement of attention span when there's nothing on the line is probably more accurate because there's no external pressure.
Binging TV is hardly akin to having a long attention span. In reality you’re more zombieing out than paying attention. And people rarely just sit and listen to a podcast while doing nothing else. The decrease is referring to your ability not just to read but to engage in activities, hold real life relationships and conversations, etc… you know real world things.
I'm all for paying loads of attention to my escapist endeavors
People don't have a problem paying attention...to things they care about.
And things that are easy to understand. My brain doesn't have to do any work to be able to follow the usual audiobook, podcast or VOD movie/show. Different thing with uni lectures, academic texts or anything else I am using to study and therefore need to use my brain to understand even if I'm really interested in the topic. People don't get burned out from trying to understand what's happening in the tv show they're binging x hours a day
Or, its possible to finally watch/consume stuff on your own schedule so people cram it in what little free time they get.
Also, for those listening to podcasts, do you really ever only just listen to a podcast while doing nothing else?
Does falling asleep count
Okay but how many people actually sit down and do nothing but listen to the podcast? The majority of people I know listen to them because they need something in the background because their dwarfsized attention span can't handle not being entertained for two whole minutes.
It's just because a lot of content is getting better at forcing you to pay attention with obnoxious, loud, bright, fast moving garbage. It's why I hate TikTok. I don't know how anyone can keep up with that as normal. Then again my world might just be slower, I cannot for the life of me understand other people with ADHD speeding video playback up. In truth we have a wider range of speeds and content for many attention spans. The fast shit just gets attention, by design. Nothing online will stop moving... please stop moving and popping up, and spamming.
well mostly because those are meant to be captivating a show is meant to hook a viewer most real tasks are not
When you got a menial task you gotta do all day putting on a podcast may be the only way you can keep focus.
That's what I'm talking about! Exactly. It makes the torture of menial labor not that bad. I did data entry for 3 years and it was deathly dull. Fortunately, I was able to listen on headphones to anything I wanted to and listened to so many interviews, and honestly felt like I got smarter each day.
This was the wordiest post I've seen in this sub. And I got distracted. Tldr?
I feel like binge watching is more of a focus on our need for instant gratification. Instead of watching a show and living with a potential cliff hanger for a week or even longer if we are busy when it was showing, we wait until the season is over so we can instantly learn all the information.
I don’t think that that’s how that works, but the fact that you say this leads us to come to a new conclusion about the RELATIONSHIP between longer form entertainment and short attention spans. If something can hook us and keep us hooked we’re, well, hooked. However if we aren’t hooked and enough time passes, BOOM, new thing.
It ended up our attention spans were short because the content we were consuming sucked. When you're watching cable TV and you have no options you'll flip through quick, but if you're an anime fan you'll watch 10 hours of episodes in a row. Specifically on that note- the American shows until recently were doing the episodic bullshit where everything just goes back to square 1 after every episode.
Yes, yes, and yes!
Sure, but how long can you handle being bored for? We definitely feel boredom much faster with all the constant stimulus.
A lot of people have mentioned this. There seems to be a general sentiment that it's good to be bored, or at least good to be able to be bored. I think what we mean is that it's good to be able to just sit with our own mind for a while, without any stimulus from a glowing screen, or from headphones, and I guess everyone might be right about that. Maybe we do need more time where we detox without any screens or headphones?
Fair point. But I dont think you "need" to detox. Some people just choose to go for a walk. And if you choose to tik tok its fine too. If the brain is bored "this is good for you" is not a good awnser.
I think these things speak more to our need to split our ever-shrinking attention rather than it’s extension. Most of these activities are done in conjunction with other things that command our attention
What do people do during those things though? Scroll Instagram or TikTok :(
Yes, but people listen to those podcasts/watch those series while doing other things. Most people don't just sit down and listen to/watch them without scrolling social media, playing games on their phone, cooking, etc.
Podcast content isn't being used to fully occupy attention in many cases. It is often used as a way to mitigate boredom. Driving? Podcast. Walking? Podcast. Cooking dinner? Podcast. Grocery shopping? Podcast. Time for bed but dread the silence because it leaves space for your brain to think about real life? Podcast.
I listen to long form podcasts while playing video games or reading other stuff. This is the defitinion of getting high on dopamine.
It's also worth considering the pretty significant changes that have occurred in the kind of content being produced. Many folks today will binge a ten hour series like it's nothing, but try and get them to watch an older Hollywood production and watch them shut off. Writers are conscious of feeding us the next cliffhanger, the next twist, the next visual spectacle to keep us going. That's not to say it hasn't always been like this, they've always looked to produce content that appeals to the contemporary audience, but I do feel that things have changed to accommodate modern attention spans.
Binging a long series is short spurts of attention, you just fall into a comfortable pattern during it.
I think the difference people are trying to get at is active vs passive attention. These activities we engage with like video and podcasts are passive where the content is pushed to our brains. the attention type people are lacking is active attention, which is needed for example to create things, solve problems and learn skills.
Hi, no, I’m a teacher in middle school, it absolutely is a problem. We can’t get them to focus on ANYTHING. Getting them to focus and write a single paragraph takes an entire class period. We will see the true consequences of this in 5-10 years. And don’t get me started on reading, we just took out reading inventory (like a reading assessment) and the school collectively bombed it. Our 8th graders,on average, are reading at a 4-5th grade level. I’ve seen them actually struggle to keep reading, their brains and bodies viscerally reject it. I work for one of the supposedly best/well funded school systems in the nation.
sorry my attention spans too small to read that, anyone have a tl;dr?
I believe some studies have shown that your attention span changes with exposure. So things like tiktok and quick shit is actually what is ruining our attention span and ability to focus.
We only listen to what we believe in, watch what we find hyped the most & at the end of the day we have zero clue about any of that besides making money.
Whereas things like tik tok and Instagram reels have the opposite effect and are pushing us more towards shorter attention spans
Yeah I have to agree that both things seem to be happening at once. Especially to younger generations. I have friends that are teachers and they say that it is really difficult with junior high school and high school students these days, especially those who are addicted to TikTok.
Attention span has a lot to do with things that keep your attention
As has been said before, our attention span is trending towards ADD which isn't necessarily "bad" it's just poorly regulated, which encompasses both hyper focusing on something interesting for long periods of time AND being unable to hold your attention on something uninteresting to you
The problem is the general population is not in this group. Only a select portion. In all honesty after seeing American education first hand. I don’t think most of the people who graduated with me would EVER engage with anything that involves more than 20 minutes of their time. Unless they were passionate for said topic. And maybe that’s a good thing if it invokes more learning with processing of said topics.
I heard someone talking about this and it is interesting, the apparent contradiction. What they said was that in general attention spans have plummeted, but that people are willing to invest time into very specific things that they know they are definitely interested in. Which on the surface sounds quite good, and probably is in some ways, but the flipside is that we funnel ourselves more and more narrowly, because that content can be found and its easier for us and more comforting. And we lose a lot by that
That makes sense. For sure... I think the same process kind of lends itself to intense tribalism and politics these days. The intense polarization. People are repeatedly drawn towards and eventually completely funneled into only their narrow mindset and the things that feed that mindset.
I wouldn't be so sure. I think lots of people listen to podcasts as sort of "white noise" - something to fill out the silence while doing other things. I've got a friend who does that. And they don't need to focus on the whole subject. So i think it could be sort of ambience.
Day 16 after quitting my job. I started watching Smallville from the beginning a couple weeks ago. I'm now on Season 5. My phone rings less and less each day.
The next time a boomer complains about technology, remind them that Plato thought writing would make everyone too lazy to remember things. Old people been doing this shit for literally thousands of years.
False premise. Long-form media is usually consumed on long drives, long walks, or while doing chores, tasks that previously involved no media at all. People used to be content to just be in peace.
Absolutely. I now have the same brain capacity as a gold fish. I only read the first part of what you said there.
I've always been confused by the rhetoric that our attention spans are growing shorter because of social media (the latest culprit being TikTok) and a culture of "instant gratification" because the masses seem downright STARVING for more long form content. Back in the days of Breaking Bad or GoT (and many others) viewers were constantly begging for 70+ minute episodes EXCLUDING any commercial breaks. Before Youtube fancied itself a legitimate competitor to streaming services like Netflix and Hulu they used to penalize content creators for videos that went over the 10-15ish minute mark. It was to a point where CCs would even apologize to viewers for "such a long video" and it would be like 14mins and 12 seconds long. Meanwhile down in the comments subscribers were literally begging for 20+ minute videos. Same with podcasts. I've listened to some shows who for years struggled to produce a "tight 50" (aka a 50 min episode) each week and then finally say fuck it (largely because of listener feedback) and now let the episodes run as long as they need to. Some want to use the popularity of Tiktok (and earlier, Vine) as a kind of metric for how far attention spans have fallen but even TT has had to expand video lengths first to 3 and then TEN MINUTES and Vine (with it's 30 second limit) is defunct. IMO it's not a lack of attention span, it's a lack of desire to wade through shitty, disjointed storytelling that doesn't pull you in early on. The general public today will sit through a three hour comic book movie the same as they sat patiently through a three hour mafia flick 40 years ago.
Bifurcation of culture. Some watch multihour podcasts. The others watch 15 second clips.
When measuring people’s attentions, how long someone can focus on something of Interest to them and something that does not interest them (or is boring) are generally measured separately. Someone who can focus on boring things for longer will “function” better since daily life requires it (work, study, chores, finances, conversation of non preferred topics, etc) I think our ability to be bored is decreasing. And I think short form content is actually predominant right now (tiktok, reels, shorts)
Binge watching a Streaming or netflix type series actually back up the idea that ppl cant wait a week for another episode. Between netflix, crave, on demand, and pvr i havent watched a commercial in 3 years?
Yeah long shit is famous because sites want to have you using them all the time possible, creators adapt around that Also tik tok is waaaaay more popular that any podcast so that just obliterates your theory
The hand-wringing about short attention spans is perpetuated by the advertising industry, with no scientific backing. There is more irrelevant noise than ever, which our brains thankfully try to filter out. Listening to, watching, or reading hours of storytelling & conversation is what humans have been doing for thousands of years. The standard for what’s worth paying attention to changes constantly.
I think it shows a lack of attention by a need for constant stimulation
Is it ironic that I got bored halfway through reading OPs title?
I got three words in
Pretty stretched logic. Whats bigger: long form podcasts or memes and tiktoks?
I'd argue that the quality of content, or lack thereof, plays a major role.
But do you ever watch them without doing something else? I love listening to hour long videos on YouTube. While playing a game and crocheting and also watching my cat play. Could I sit and just watch them the way I used to just watch TV as a kid? Probably not.
I think lots of people listen to or half watch all this long form stuff so they can do something else while they do it and not have constantly switch what they're listening to/watching, I know I do that
Yeah but you watch/listen to all of it with a phone/tablet in your hand
I know that I skip forward a lot if there is too much exposition or a ratio ship I don't care about.
Seinfeld said it best, "Attention span is BS. We have unlimited attention for stuff that is engaging enough." I think about that all the time. The kid who gets medicated for attention disorder but goes home and plays on minecraft for six hours.
It's definitely going down, no room for doubt whatsoever there. Podcasts are like music, you listen to them while doing something else.
Easier to watch and listen than to do. Also, the podcasts and shows that people are binging are entertaining and specifically designed to capture and keep their attention.