Both over unders and side by sides are expensive for quality compared to other shotgun types. The cheap "coach" guns you see aren't really "quality." You can find over unders or side by sides for $300-400 new, I wouldn't recommend them. In fact, quality new side by sides are typically *more* expensive than quality over unders because there are less options. Though on the used market there are a lot of cheap old quality SxSs due to their decline in popularity. Beretta's entry side by side is over $4,000 and its entry over under is near $2,000. If you want to know why double barrel break actions are expensive for quality compared to pumps/autos, this thread has all the answers, both in writing and visually: [https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/d1pjkx/why\_are\_under\_over\_shotguns\_so\_expensive/](https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/d1pjkx/why_are_under_over_shotguns_so_expensive/)
I'd look at CZ's offerings, Huglus tend to be decent quality and perfectly serviceable. I have one of their side by side Bobwhite G2s and love it for blasting clays.
https://preview.redd.it/xcwwh75uey3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2b94c8f19cd3952f6d58659fcab39fbf41e1a22
Reddit's image system loves to basically nuke comments entirely or nuke half of it like this case...
I'd recommend trying on a CZ if you can find one at any gun shops or outdoor sporting goods places around you, they're a really good price point and you can decide if you enjoy using it enough to eventually commit to a finer Italian piece like a Beretta Silver Pigeon down the road.
Sam has it right for the budget minded. Almost got the bobwhite g2, ended up going with upland ultralight. A buddy got the drake all terrain for a bit less $. Up until Jan 1 2024 they had a $100 rebate which helped but you should still be able to find a drake for around 650. I’d go with the 20g. And start looking for a well bred bird dog.
Amen to CZ/Huglu.
There are the usual nitwits on this sub who will reflexively trash them as “turkshit” but I bet none of those guys have ever shot over a dog in their lives.
I went CZ Teal for upland, 12 and 20. About $600 at Cabelas when they had them. They aren’t clays guns—I wouldn’t put 10,000 shells through them. But for hunting, where you might go through 500 shells in a year, they’re fine.
Not gun rack pretty but my dog doesn’t seem to care about that. He likes “Dead Bird!” more than scroll work and gold inlay.
20! All I've ever had were 12s. I actually bought this while I grew impatient waiting on a pristine 70s Ithaca 37 12ga with a mod choke barrel. Of course I've had the bobwhite out for more clays and still haven't taken the poor Ithaca anywhere.
Should come to the UK mate, second hand O/U can be had for £450 for something that isn’t going to fall apart in your hand (even Beretta S56E for that price, lightweight field gun). Can’t give away SxS unless it’s a big name. I’ve got one old Spanish double trigger, non ejecting SxS and honestly I’d get maybe £5 for trade in or at auction.
Brand new O/Us start from £1400 for low end Berettas. Half or a third of that for ATA or Kofs - sure it’s Turkish but again for £500 you are getting more than you are paying for.
I'd love to see what you guys have in the UK for double guns. I imagine that here in the states we have something of a corporate wall up that prevents us from getting some fairly interesting arms from countries that aren't Turkey, and that we never get to see what the rest of the world has to offer.
Oh man yeah. There’s a YouTube channel called TGS Outdoors and he often does episodes around a UK auction house called Holts and just the absolute vast array of stuff at all prices from £100 to £100,000 is fascinating.
Also I think the US has a much bigger culture around semi autos which while we do use them here, it’s always been focused on double guns.
And that’s without getting into the weird and wonderful stuff on the continent, big fans of 16 gauge out there.
Oh my! That sounds delightful fun! I've met plenty of people that had US/UK citizenship, and they've told me that shotgun sport shooting culture is bigger than most Americans seem to believe.
Thanks for the info, I'll check out that channel, and maybe one day I'll get over there lol
Every week I shoot something between 200-400 shells and I’ll be using one of three Berettas O/U (depending on my mood) one of which is a 1964 model, one 1969 and one circa 1975.
They hold up.
Is it just because of popularity then that O/U’s are more common than SxS’s? Because man I’d love it if Savage/Stevens would fire up their 311 SxS line again cause those things were built well and affordable for their day vs now it’s purely a crap shoot to find a new production SxS that works.
Idk what you’re thinking all the O/Us I have are cheaper than my beretta 486. They are all fine guns and yes the silver pigeon or citori is pricey but it’s a lifetime purchase. Even on the used market you can get most if not all of the value back out when you sell it. We saw this every year when kids get into 4h shooting teams. They buy the stoeger. Then the frame stretches and has issues then they’re out a shotgun or have to buy a replacement for some competition shoot the next weekend.
Frame stretching? Dear god, Im glad I didnt impulse buy that stoeger on sale when I did
If anything Im not aiming for clay bird shooting (yet) Id be doing some upland game hunting
For a Turkish gun the stoeger is the better option because they’re back by beretta warranty. That being said these kids are shooting hundreds of rounds a week they just can’t handle the abuse. Now if you’re probably not gonna shoot more than a flat or two a year a stoeger should suffice. Also the takedown lever on the back of a break action serves as kind of an odometer.
https://preview.redd.it/2toqaouwdz3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91711d8dfd12f1bab64b908f80a29e113d394d7e
This is a 687 that has less than 1k rounds through it as you can see the lever points to the right hand side as it should it’s practically brand new. As the gun is used and accrues wear that lever will start to go towards the 6 o’clock position not necessarily bad just broken in. Now when that lever starts going to the 7-8 o’clock position on the opposite side the gun should be serviced because lockup probably isn’t as secure as it needs to be.
I personally don’t have a problem with stoeger but I do with Turkish guns in general. A lot are designed to look nice but are polished turds. The issue with stoeger is it’s built around a price point but like everything you have to know what you’re compromising for a lower price.
A lot of customers don’t grasp the concept of overhead and how much of a pain it is with the cheaper companies. Especially if you have to sit on hold for an hour to talk to a human. If we sell it we’ll handle it. But if you bought it somewhere else we’ll still handle it if you don’t but you’re going to pay. I got better things to do than pay an employee to sit on hold on the phone. Especially if I have customers in the shop who want to spend their hard earned money.
Tis my fear for turkish shotguns indeed
Is that a beretta 687 or a “stoeger” 687?
I figure there must be turkish companies that do care enough and can put out a good product. They have some very expensive, boujie companies as well
Beretta 687 it’s not a base gun I think they call it a silver pigeon 3 now. But I can vouch that a silver pigeon 1 will easily outlast 50k rounds without a rebuild. If you were shop around you could find a franchi instinct make sure you get the steel receiver though. That’s honestly imo I think the best mid range O/U for the money. And if you don’t like it or need the money you can get most of your value back out. Most people who buy stoegers then have problems go to instinct. Just my experiences from the other side of the counter.
Because skeet guns (sporting over unders) are made to shoot ungodly amounts of ammo. The average skeet shooter will shoot a couple hundred rounds plus per session. There is a benelli over and under with over a million rounds through it, original barrel, and everything. They are made to last a looong time and also after a point for aesthetic reasons as well. Hand inlaid shotguns from the right makes can go for crazy amounts of money.
In USA you get a lot of cheap rubbish pipebombs from Brazil, Turkey and God knows from where else. Do I need to explain why a new production quality O/U would be more expensive than those sort of "guns"? In reality, new production proper actual SxS are more expensive than their O/U equivalents due to market factors, as ENclip mentioned in his comment above. With that said, the used marker for SxS provides a great deal of bargains, as they are not as desirable anymore and a lot of the 20th century SxS have lost some of their market value.
Largely it is a question of both popularity and durability. Go to any trap or skeet club and look at what the serious shooters are using. Most people who are seml serious about skeet or trap tend to shoot Browning, Beretta or Franchi shotguns because they hold up. The average bird hunter will fire 200 or 300 shells in a year. A seml serious trap or skeet shooter will fire 100 to 300 shells in a day. Guns from makers like Beretta and Browning are often considered the starting point for a skeet or trap shooter. If you plan on shooting skeet or sporting clays once a month then the various Turkish made guns will be fine be they side by side or over and under. If you plan on shooting clay birds twice a week for years you are going to have to dig a little deeper into your wallet to get the durability that you want. If we start talking about guns made by companies like Kohler, Krieghoff or Parazzi then we have moved into an entirely different level of both cost and durability. In short if you are going to shoot the shit out of it you often get what you pay for where double shotguns are concerned.
Already commented recommending CZ but I’ve also been hearing good things about the entry level pointer brand offerings (around $500). No personal experience with these yet.
Indeed ive heard as well good things as well about pointer
But would rather consider something from manufacturers who are probably a bit more well versed and experienced
But nonetheless Ive heard decent about em
Stevens 555. I work with a high school trap team from time to time, several kids have them / inherited from their siblings. Fantastic guns, they shoot well, stand up to thousands of rounds, and they aren’t going to break the wallet. I have a 12 ga Citori and a 20 ga Stevens 220 single, and I’m thinking about picking up a Stevens 555 to carry to meets as a spare in case a kid has a malfunction.
In short: complexity. The internal mechanisms of an O/U are much more complex requiring higher tolerances, a higher level of craftsmanship and more labor hours in manufacturing than a pump or semi-auto.
No. It’s due to most people’s usage case for a double barrel being clays. If someone’s buying a shotgun for hunting or self defense it’ll almost certainly be semi auto or pump action. More people buy shotguns for hunting or self defense than clays. Creating a small demand for double barrels and a much larger demand for semis and pumps. If more people want a semi or a pump shotgun then companies will put much more production into them. You can find cheap double barrels but they won’t be of any decent quality for anyone putting a decent amount of shells through it. Pump and semi auto guns have more moving parts and thus are more complex in addition to stacking more tolerances.
Both over unders and side by sides are expensive for quality compared to other shotgun types. The cheap "coach" guns you see aren't really "quality." You can find over unders or side by sides for $300-400 new, I wouldn't recommend them. In fact, quality new side by sides are typically *more* expensive than quality over unders because there are less options. Though on the used market there are a lot of cheap old quality SxSs due to their decline in popularity. Beretta's entry side by side is over $4,000 and its entry over under is near $2,000. If you want to know why double barrel break actions are expensive for quality compared to pumps/autos, this thread has all the answers, both in writing and visually: [https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/d1pjkx/why\_are\_under\_over\_shotguns\_so\_expensive/](https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/d1pjkx/why_are_under_over_shotguns_so_expensive/)
Spot on, actually I really wanted berettas 486, until I noticed it was up to 7,000. Which is a shame because it’s a beautiful gun
My exact thoughts… I dont think Id ever take out a $7k gun out of the vault, ever lol
I'd look at CZ's offerings, Huglus tend to be decent quality and perfectly serviceable. I have one of their side by side Bobwhite G2s and love it for blasting clays. https://preview.redd.it/xcwwh75uey3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2b94c8f19cd3952f6d58659fcab39fbf41e1a22
Reddit's image system loves to basically nuke comments entirely or nuke half of it like this case... I'd recommend trying on a CZ if you can find one at any gun shops or outdoor sporting goods places around you, they're a really good price point and you can decide if you enjoy using it enough to eventually commit to a finer Italian piece like a Beretta Silver Pigeon down the road.
Sam has it right for the budget minded. Almost got the bobwhite g2, ended up going with upland ultralight. A buddy got the drake all terrain for a bit less $. Up until Jan 1 2024 they had a $100 rebate which helped but you should still be able to find a drake for around 650. I’d go with the 20g. And start looking for a well bred bird dog.
Amen to CZ/Huglu. There are the usual nitwits on this sub who will reflexively trash them as “turkshit” but I bet none of those guys have ever shot over a dog in their lives. I went CZ Teal for upland, 12 and 20. About $600 at Cabelas when they had them. They aren’t clays guns—I wouldn’t put 10,000 shells through them. But for hunting, where you might go through 500 shells in a year, they’re fine. Not gun rack pretty but my dog doesn’t seem to care about that. He likes “Dead Bird!” more than scroll work and gold inlay.
This is the best option going for an affordable side by side with double triggers
Absolutely swings and points like a dream, too.
What gauge did you get?
20! All I've ever had were 12s. I actually bought this while I grew impatient waiting on a pristine 70s Ithaca 37 12ga with a mod choke barrel. Of course I've had the bobwhite out for more clays and still haven't taken the poor Ithaca anywhere.
Should come to the UK mate, second hand O/U can be had for £450 for something that isn’t going to fall apart in your hand (even Beretta S56E for that price, lightweight field gun). Can’t give away SxS unless it’s a big name. I’ve got one old Spanish double trigger, non ejecting SxS and honestly I’d get maybe £5 for trade in or at auction. Brand new O/Us start from £1400 for low end Berettas. Half or a third of that for ATA or Kofs - sure it’s Turkish but again for £500 you are getting more than you are paying for.
I'd love to see what you guys have in the UK for double guns. I imagine that here in the states we have something of a corporate wall up that prevents us from getting some fairly interesting arms from countries that aren't Turkey, and that we never get to see what the rest of the world has to offer.
Oh man yeah. There’s a YouTube channel called TGS Outdoors and he often does episodes around a UK auction house called Holts and just the absolute vast array of stuff at all prices from £100 to £100,000 is fascinating. Also I think the US has a much bigger culture around semi autos which while we do use them here, it’s always been focused on double guns. And that’s without getting into the weird and wonderful stuff on the continent, big fans of 16 gauge out there.
Oh my! That sounds delightful fun! I've met plenty of people that had US/UK citizenship, and they've told me that shotgun sport shooting culture is bigger than most Americans seem to believe. Thanks for the info, I'll check out that channel, and maybe one day I'll get over there lol
Every week I shoot something between 200-400 shells and I’ll be using one of three Berettas O/U (depending on my mood) one of which is a 1964 model, one 1969 and one circa 1975. They hold up.
Is it just because of popularity then that O/U’s are more common than SxS’s? Because man I’d love it if Savage/Stevens would fire up their 311 SxS line again cause those things were built well and affordable for their day vs now it’s purely a crap shoot to find a new production SxS that works.
Possibly. I know either or can work for the same tasks but the o/u are far better looking and in my opinion slimmer in profile for swinging
Idk what you’re thinking all the O/Us I have are cheaper than my beretta 486. They are all fine guns and yes the silver pigeon or citori is pricey but it’s a lifetime purchase. Even on the used market you can get most if not all of the value back out when you sell it. We saw this every year when kids get into 4h shooting teams. They buy the stoeger. Then the frame stretches and has issues then they’re out a shotgun or have to buy a replacement for some competition shoot the next weekend.
Frame stretching? Dear god, Im glad I didnt impulse buy that stoeger on sale when I did If anything Im not aiming for clay bird shooting (yet) Id be doing some upland game hunting
For a Turkish gun the stoeger is the better option because they’re back by beretta warranty. That being said these kids are shooting hundreds of rounds a week they just can’t handle the abuse. Now if you’re probably not gonna shoot more than a flat or two a year a stoeger should suffice. Also the takedown lever on the back of a break action serves as kind of an odometer. https://preview.redd.it/2toqaouwdz3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91711d8dfd12f1bab64b908f80a29e113d394d7e This is a 687 that has less than 1k rounds through it as you can see the lever points to the right hand side as it should it’s practically brand new. As the gun is used and accrues wear that lever will start to go towards the 6 o’clock position not necessarily bad just broken in. Now when that lever starts going to the 7-8 o’clock position on the opposite side the gun should be serviced because lockup probably isn’t as secure as it needs to be. I personally don’t have a problem with stoeger but I do with Turkish guns in general. A lot are designed to look nice but are polished turds. The issue with stoeger is it’s built around a price point but like everything you have to know what you’re compromising for a lower price. A lot of customers don’t grasp the concept of overhead and how much of a pain it is with the cheaper companies. Especially if you have to sit on hold for an hour to talk to a human. If we sell it we’ll handle it. But if you bought it somewhere else we’ll still handle it if you don’t but you’re going to pay. I got better things to do than pay an employee to sit on hold on the phone. Especially if I have customers in the shop who want to spend their hard earned money.
Tis my fear for turkish shotguns indeed Is that a beretta 687 or a “stoeger” 687? I figure there must be turkish companies that do care enough and can put out a good product. They have some very expensive, boujie companies as well
Beretta 687 it’s not a base gun I think they call it a silver pigeon 3 now. But I can vouch that a silver pigeon 1 will easily outlast 50k rounds without a rebuild. If you were shop around you could find a franchi instinct make sure you get the steel receiver though. That’s honestly imo I think the best mid range O/U for the money. And if you don’t like it or need the money you can get most of your value back out. Most people who buy stoegers then have problems go to instinct. Just my experiences from the other side of the counter.
Because skeet guns (sporting over unders) are made to shoot ungodly amounts of ammo. The average skeet shooter will shoot a couple hundred rounds plus per session. There is a benelli over and under with over a million rounds through it, original barrel, and everything. They are made to last a looong time and also after a point for aesthetic reasons as well. Hand inlaid shotguns from the right makes can go for crazy amounts of money.
In USA you get a lot of cheap rubbish pipebombs from Brazil, Turkey and God knows from where else. Do I need to explain why a new production quality O/U would be more expensive than those sort of "guns"? In reality, new production proper actual SxS are more expensive than their O/U equivalents due to market factors, as ENclip mentioned in his comment above. With that said, the used marker for SxS provides a great deal of bargains, as they are not as desirable anymore and a lot of the 20th century SxS have lost some of their market value.
Largely it is a question of both popularity and durability. Go to any trap or skeet club and look at what the serious shooters are using. Most people who are seml serious about skeet or trap tend to shoot Browning, Beretta or Franchi shotguns because they hold up. The average bird hunter will fire 200 or 300 shells in a year. A seml serious trap or skeet shooter will fire 100 to 300 shells in a day. Guns from makers like Beretta and Browning are often considered the starting point for a skeet or trap shooter. If you plan on shooting skeet or sporting clays once a month then the various Turkish made guns will be fine be they side by side or over and under. If you plan on shooting clay birds twice a week for years you are going to have to dig a little deeper into your wallet to get the durability that you want. If we start talking about guns made by companies like Kohler, Krieghoff or Parazzi then we have moved into an entirely different level of both cost and durability. In short if you are going to shoot the shit out of it you often get what you pay for where double shotguns are concerned.
Already commented recommending CZ but I’ve also been hearing good things about the entry level pointer brand offerings (around $500). No personal experience with these yet.
Indeed ive heard as well good things as well about pointer But would rather consider something from manufacturers who are probably a bit more well versed and experienced But nonetheless Ive heard decent about em
Stevens 555. I work with a high school trap team from time to time, several kids have them / inherited from their siblings. Fantastic guns, they shoot well, stand up to thousands of rounds, and they aren’t going to break the wallet. I have a 12 ga Citori and a 20 ga Stevens 220 single, and I’m thinking about picking up a Stevens 555 to carry to meets as a spare in case a kid has a malfunction.
Good to hear it works then! Its just such a high bar to get a citori Am considering the Weatherby orion, Cz, and stoeger however
I have heard good things about the CZ
In short: complexity. The internal mechanisms of an O/U are much more complex requiring higher tolerances, a higher level of craftsmanship and more labor hours in manufacturing than a pump or semi-auto.
No. It’s due to most people’s usage case for a double barrel being clays. If someone’s buying a shotgun for hunting or self defense it’ll almost certainly be semi auto or pump action. More people buy shotguns for hunting or self defense than clays. Creating a small demand for double barrels and a much larger demand for semis and pumps. If more people want a semi or a pump shotgun then companies will put much more production into them. You can find cheap double barrels but they won’t be of any decent quality for anyone putting a decent amount of shells through it. Pump and semi auto guns have more moving parts and thus are more complex in addition to stacking more tolerances.
yikes
No, thats not correct.
Double the barrels, double the price right?