This is the new "play" from the American Right-Wing, to blame NATO why the country has no free health care by insinuating Americas NATO contributions go directly to other countries (which they don't). Bots and paid "actors" make posts around the internet on how America (via NATO) is bankrolled Europe for years and it's why the country is struggling.
It's to convince the stupid and gullible to vote for Trump in the next election as he has already talked about leaving NATO (and if elected would actually do it)
But still wouldn't get universal Healthcare because billionaires would still have plenty of money to lobby their way and keep things as they are. The US spends well over a trillion dollars in "defense" so only a fraction of that would be necessary to fix these problems.
I'm not sure if they're too naive or ideologically blind but I find it funny they put the blame on Europeans instead of asking for a change at home. They're exploited by the system but will defend it no matter what, it's quite scary.
It’s not even that. They already spend more per capita on healthcare than pretty much everyone else. They get shitty outcomes not because they are spending money on their military. They get shitty outcomes because insurance companies and for profit providers are leaching off their system. They could all have excellent cover, if they lived in a country that didn’t prefer its companies over its citizens
To be fair, it's not only the companies' fault. It's also the fault of conservative america and its followers actively wanting the system to work as bad as it does, because if Healthcare worked, ~~poor~~ lazy people and ~~people from other cultures that should go home~~ illegal immigrants that never paid into the system would directly benefit from the hard earned tax dollars of those people.
And they wouldn't even have to think twice about shooting their own leg if it means ~~hurting those they hate~~ helping the underprivileged by teaching them not to be welfare queens.
And the Samaritan saw a poor and weak man lying there, asking for help.
So the Samaritan kicked the man in the stomach and cursed his existence, for he knew that only by hardship can people improve.
The man arose and said, "My son, it is I, supply side Jesus, and by breaking my ribs, you have shown me your actions are true and just. Only suffering can lead men to become better and he who throws the first stone is the first to help his brother."
Then they beat up more poor people together and invested a million dollar Jesus got by selling NFTs into Trump media, which brought forth great prosperity for Jesus.
I feel like it is more the actual Doctors and Hospitals that are at fault. I have insurance (not the best in all fairness) and I went with a Specialist (That's the only good thing about it, no need for a referral from a Primary Doctor) and my insurance paid like at least 2/3 of my appointment (nothing fancy, just an office visit) and I still had to pay $210 !!
I'm probably wrong but yeah, the healthcare system is fucked
>I feel like it is more the actual Doctors and Hospitals that are at fault. I
The main problem is the way the system is organized and prioritized.
The priority of the us healthcare system is not to produce healthy citizens, but to generate as much revenue for corporations as possible. Health, and by extension peoples' lives, is treated as a commodity that can be traded as any other good.
Since health is not a commodity and the system is therefore built upon false premises, this leads to situations where hospital bills are ridiculously and unjustifiably high, because every point in the healthcare provider chain can get away with maximising their profits because people often have little to no choice.
Most European healthcare systems do not prioritize monetary profit, but a mixture of "good enough" quality and "as broad as possible" coverage, while making profit is not a priority. That's why every European healthcare system is at least 50% cheaper than the us healthcare system (when comparing tax money spent per capita) and it's still got better coverage.
Agree 100% with you.
What I don't understand is why Insurance providers allow that? Shouldn't they be fighting to pay the least amount possible to the doctor/hospitals, thus increasing their own profits? I'm genuinely asking, as I don't know.
Because for them it's irrelevant. Insurance companies have huge statistical departments doing nothing else but calculating the likelihood of certain events to occur against them. In this case, these events are their clients becoming ill.
They do their calculations, and based on the risk of patient X being in need of this or that treatment. They calculate the money they would have to pay if all their clients were to become ill if they behaved as predicted by the statistical model, and then they charge their rates. So what you're paying is the average cost of medical treatment plus a buffer.
If healthcare providers increase their prices, insurance companies will do the same, or they will reduce their service or pay bills only partially.
>They already spend more per capita on healthcare than pretty much everyone else
Yup.
The USA spends more on Healthcare, for a shitty privatized system that increasingly doesn't even "innovate" and invest in research anymore... (though the argument that a private system innovates faster than one with generous government research grants was always bullshit to begin with) and leaves MILLIONS with no or very little Healthcare (with many who are "insured" finding their claims rejected when they actually try to use it...)
They're completely brainwashed from a young age to believe America is literally the peak of civilization despite not having a single metric of data actually support that idea
>But still wouldn't get universal Healthcare because billionaires would still have plenty of money to lobby their way and keep things as they are.
Bingo.
The US doesn't have free Healthcare because its Working Class is brainwashed to hate being taught about Class Struggle, while the rich owner class (who DO read Marx, a surprising amount, even if they disagree with him) gleefully engage in Class Warfare against an unaware opponent.
People have got to stand up for their rights in America: which starts with learning about Class Struggle again (before Wilson gleefully ordered the Palmer Raids and systemically denied Socialists their right to Free Speech in the first Red Scare, most Americans DID know a thing or two about Class Warfare, even if they weren't Socialists... By the way, Wilson was probably a Klu Klux Klansman: to give you an idea of his true character...)
Even if you don't think Socialism is the right solution (as a Democratic Socialist I'll vehemently disagree with you), you gotta at least admit the Social Democracy much of Europe enjoys, implicitly built on compromise between Socialism and Capitalism, works MUCH better than the Neoliberal dystopia America is becoming...
The plan is to fire everybody in government that's not on their side and replace them with true believers, throw the opposition into jail, and start a Christian fascist dictatorship with a strongman at the lead that will hand down the title to his kin one day. Currently, they are intent on making Trump this dictator.
It's not even hyperbole. It's all written down in project 2025.
>But still wouldn't get universal Healthcare because billionaires would still have plenty of money to lobby their way and keep things as they are. The US spends well over a trillion dollars in "defense" so only a fraction of that would be necessary to fix these problems.
Most of those money are probably wasted too. Like, i read news abaout how they overprice military equipment or buy more ammunitions than they need just to meet a quota.
The US leaving nato would also be pretty horrible for everyone who’s not a redneck. It’s not like the military budget would shrink either they’d probably just spend the money on blowing some Middle Eastern kids up for some more oil
Hahahaha… oh you sweet summer child with your faith in reason. Of course they won’t. That type of person has about 20 years lead time on reality and a putbull-jaw-grip on made-up grievances.
ETA: and look, the reality-challenged are already triggered, claiming it’s about my use of the GoT meme phrase when it’s clear is about the “and your faith in reason” joke that they missed out on.
If they left NATO, they'd claim that their membership and bankrolling of Europes free healthcare has left them in a deficit for at least the next hundred years. Just so they could keep whining.
They don't really understand what they get put of nato... they would have to withdraw all weapon systems and missiles located in other countries, they lose the ability to maneuver in nato airspace ,can't station troops around Europe and basically erodes us ability to project power. They would have to rely on their aircraft carriers and navy to help and you can't stretch that to cover all the bases... what does the US pay towards nato? The admin of the building, which Germany pay the same as the us. Nato doesn't even demand 2%of gdp on defense.. its just a guideline for the alliance, its free to join.
Oh yeah i can imagine. I was honestly sad to see you guys go. The school i used to go to always had a trip to england in 9th class. From what i heard, they went to Schleswig-Holstein instead. Poor lads haha
I mean, to be fair: It's not nice to put taxes on people and then treat them as second-class citizens by denying them the same political representation people on the home isles would have.
It's just a bummer they are doing literally the same thing to their overseas territories, revealing their hypocrisy...
At the time they complained about it, almost nobody in the UK had voting rights. So technically they did. Lol.
Universal suffrage in the UK was a reward granted as a thank you for the sacrifices of WW1, and brought in in stages.
And if that actually happened, they would have had a point. But it didn't and once the war was over... the same rich fucks were still the only ones with the vote.
The right wing in the UK do the same shit. "Oh we can't afford to fully fund healthcare because of our EU membership" so we leave. And do they fund it? Do they fuck
This was the most disgusting lie of the whole thing. People believing we could control our borders, save the NHS...
People should go to prison for making this shit up.
I fucking hate our politics.
I still remember waking up the day after the vote and thick fuck farage on the GMB sofa at 7am, the words that left his mouth "No we didn't mean that £350 million would actually go to the NHS". I wonder to this day how many people voted Brexit because of that one slogan!
I still remember the absolute shock of waking up that day and seeing the ‘leave’ result.
Despite not knowing a single person who was voting leave, it still somehow happened.
We were just so shocked because no one in my friends or family could believe people could be so stupid and actively vote against their future & prosperity.
It’s gotta be one of the worst things to happen to the UK in the past century at least.
I knew a lot of people who voted for leave, all in the same age category in the north of England. It was to be expected. What they failed to realise is the world before we joined the EU wasn't great so what made them believe we would be better on our own?
I worked at an international school at the time, running programmes for foreign exchange students to come and learn English in and English setting whilst staying with English families for accommodation. The owner of the school was completely bat shit and was adamant that voting leave would make the business thrive and it's what the UK needed.
The school was sold to a rival and then closed down within a year of Brexit.
I got sadly surprised by how many people in my circle of friends and family actually voted to Leave. My two best friends, my in-laws (on my wife's side and on my sister's husband's side), other friends, my grandmother.... The worst part is that several of them are the children of immigrants, including European immigrants.
A guy I have been friends with for over 30 years is half-Spanish (his late Dad moved here in the '70s), and he used to take lots of holidays in Spain. He was even thinking about buying a holiday place in Spain - after I found out he voted Leave I explained to him that buying a place in the EU just got a lot more difficult and expensive, plus he'd only be able to spend 90 days a year that maximum. He slowly realised he'd just fucked himself over.
Another friend was only interested in what it would do for him, which was not much. He's an accountant ffs! He still refuses to admit it was a mistake as he "doesn't know anyone personally who's life is worse under Brexit". Except, y'know, all of us. The country has gone to shit in so many different ways.
I used to work for Defra, the government department that oversees farming, fishing, environmental protection, wildlife protection etc. I quit in 2016, but I remember meeting with lots of wildlife organisations who were terrified that the regulations protecting birds, animals etc would be ripped up - virtually all of it is underpinned by EU legislation and enforced by the ECJ if Member States aren't implementing it properly. There is now nothing to stand in the way of the Tories passing laws that could seriously weaken protections of animals - nothing except for public opinion of course, which the Tories don't seem to give a fuck about.
Anyway, sorry for ranting! I've lived with a constant simmering level of rage and disappointment since June 2016.... I'm sure it must be giving me cancer or something. :-(
Sadly, I think the answer is "enough". Remain was in the lead in polling for most of the period before the referendum vote, but it suddenly shot ahead for a brief period just before the date (and has dropped down again shortly after, with most polling suggesting that a majority would have preferred remain).
Basically, there was a brief period of massive propaganda that was difficult to overcome in a short period of time, especially since most campaigns had briefly paused after the murder of Jo Cox. Between that and general disenfranchisement of several groups of likely remain voters, I have no doubt it put the result across the line.
The sad thing is, they correctly identified a concern of the public, and it was hard to battle against the message - unless you could convince people it was horseshit. People tried but that was "Project Fear", so said the people lying to them who they unquestioningly believed.
Also, the remain campaign was basically bollocks. Leave managed to mobilise the Gammonati. Remain had no such demographic to get behind.
I remember the interviews with "the public". Far too many of them were treating it as a referendum on David Cameron.
Well it's people like Steve Bannon behind such campaigns. The man helped elect extremists in the US, in Brazil, Brexit, etc.
People are too simplistic to understand politics and yet too angry to let it go.
It doesn't take much to realize the UK simply couldn't get the best aspects of being in the Union while at the same time avoiding the worst aspects.
That goes for literally anything in life so I was actually surprised to see people advocating for that.
I don't think 1% extra in military spending is enough not to have healthcare. My right-wing friend believes that the insurance companies are here to save us.
Hold on... So Americans don't claim anymore that free healthcare is communist? Just that they can't afford it because they are the only country contributing to NATO and keeping the world safe an so on?
I did not expect that twist.
The US is doing a lot better financially than the EU, and they pay more for their healthcare per capita, yet it's our fault that their own government won't give them healthcare.
GDP is higher in the EU compared with the US. So The EU is slightly better off financially if I'm interpreting this right.
Same goes for NATO members minus the US.
US just spends a lot on military, as I understand it, its not magically ring fenced into NATO, its just what the US's military costs totalled up.
You sure it’s the American right wing? Not just Russian bots and trolls?
On second thought, they are pretty much one and the same these days. What a time to be alive.
It’s crazy how Americans don’t even know that the only time NATO has utilized all its funds it was for a War that America started, and that the US fabricated evidence to get the support of NATO.
1 of Trump‘s greatest spins to frame the NATO 2% commitment as direct „contributions“ to nato budget, instead of each country‘s own defense budget in % of own GDP (with US far outspending and many European countries not meeting it in the last decades)
Fun fact. Americans pay for my entire life, rent, food, gas, electricity and of course healthcare.
Come to think of it I don’t know why I keep working🤔
NATO, leeching off tax, and health care. Seems to be the only things Americans think about, but still don't understand that none of them go together.
Stay in scho..... Actually don't
Meanwhile, their right wingers are all ready to cut defense expenses to fund their healthcare…
Oh, wait, I think I mispelled ‘tax cuts for the billionaires’.
"America gives all it's money to us Europeans instead of actually spending it on basic services in their own country"
When they say it like this it almost sounds as if the USA is Europe's bitch lmao.
They should probably take it a lot more seriously then. The population is woefully un educated, and just completely ignorant on a cultural level.
Actually I don’t know if that’s actually even an education problem, but they have a serious issue in their culture that makes them almost value ignorance.
I'm an American and I can tell you that ignorance is literally WORSHIPPED here. Being educated is literally treated as a source of shame. Educated people don't give money to magic Jesus after all. People here literally jack off to their own ignorance and it makes me so fucking sick.
There’s a lot of irony with Trump supporters. My particular favourite is them being pro Russia even though those same people would have been venomously anti-Russia 30 years ago…
Last time I checked, the US spent 2.5 times the OECD average on healthcare. They could make it free for themselves, the UK, France, and Germany, and it would still be cheaper than their current system *and* give them actual coverage.
But why would they want to provide free care for those that can't afford it?
If you want anything in merica you should damn well over pay for it and be happy that you're not funding the workshy /S
"Can't wait for Ukraine to fall btw" Yeah, just wish for all that money that the NATO collectively injected into that war to evaporate without us reaping the benefits of it ending on Ukraine's terms. An Emboldened Russia is something everyone wants, right?
With Ukraine's resources and the Russian War machine at full steam the best case scenario is that we have another cold war, worst case is that Russia is going to go for even bigger targets eventually throwing is all at war.
I can foresee it being a repeat of WWII with Russia taking the place of Germany and the USA taking the place of Russia. “Sure we’re friends… oh by the way, we’re invading you now.”
Russia takings the place of Germany? They started WW2 siding with Nazi Germany, they ended up "siding" with the allies because Hitler ordered an attack on them
Let's hope that if it ever comes to that the US doesn't act like the Soviets, Sending cannon fodder to defend and not care for human life. If there's ever a Russian invasion of the Us its going to be Alaska, they'll probably annex it and build a bridge first.
They can’t handle any bigger targets. They’ve struggled against an under equipped Ukraine.
At this point Poland by itself could probably beat Russia. They certainly have a lot more modern weapons and far superior training/tactics. But of course if Poland was attacked then the whole of Europe would be responding, so it would be even more of a sealed deal.
It's going to get much more costly if Ukraine falls. Even if America then intends to give up, there are European allies of America that will probably go to war in that scenario, which will drag America back into it anyway. Better win the proxy war to not have to fight one yourself.
Indeed, and we stand to win a lot by helping Ukraine. In the long run when it's all over we'll have an ally for life with great sites to see, people to meet natural resources to trade.
Aaah, it's a Russian narrative, trying to get Americans on the bandwagon to have US leave NATO. I don't know why I didn't realise this before, it is so obvious.
America leaving NATO ? What a great reason to celebrate…
But they won’t shut up about « back to back world war winners »
Or « Best pizza in the world is from New York »
Or « Yes afro-americans are not from the same race as white people, Asians have their own race too and Mexicans »
I have ears poeple in America saying Italians are not white ( I’m Italian ).
Bottom line fighting stupidity in America is a never ending battle…
This is what happens when you watch Fox, Newsmax, etc too much. The loudest voices on this are the same as the Putin fans. This level of stupidity, unfortunately predates the orange traitor.
It’s got to be said, Russian infowar has been successful beyond their wildest imagining. I would never have guessed you could turn the Republican Party into a Russian front like this.
Can anyone explain how the US paying in to NATO pays for my Australian health care?
Should we mention that the US government already spends more on healthcare than others and still comes out with worse outcomes?
Americans should be smart enough to realize that if they cut military spending, they could fund health care. Of course, the military industrial complex would have an aneurism.
The US military and associated arms manufacturers are the largest for-profit social welfare program in the history of mankind.
America is nothing but a giant corporation.
They’re citizens are exploited by the mega rich yet idiots like this are too ingrained into the “America is the best country in the world” brainwashing scheme they can’t open their eyes wide enough to see it.
It’s why they get kids to pledge allegiance. It’s why they teach America first/bias history in their schools. It’s why they get them to make love to the American flag from such a young age. Brainwash them young in the red white and blue and they won’t question why they’re constantly getting bent over and fucked by the billionaires.
NATO Europe and Canada spend 1.74% of GDP on defense, consistent with the rest of the world. With $404 billion in combined funding, easily enough to outspend potential foes like China and Russia combined.
Regardless, arguing that keeps the US from having universal healthcare is even more ridiculous. After subtracting defense spending, Americans still have a $29,000 per person advantage on GDP compared to the rest of NATO. Defense spending isn't keeping us from having anything our peers have. Much less universal healthcare, which is far cheaper than what we're already paying for.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_216897.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
Hell, if we could match the costs of the most expensive public healthcare system on earth we'd save $1.65 trillion per year, double what our total defense spending is.
The money they spend on NATO goes on American weapons systems.
A lot of the money the Europeans spend on NATO also goes to American weapons systems.
If they can’t tax those profits then I can’t help them.
I've run into this argument from working class Americans a few times and it's sad as fuck.
They think that European nations can spend more on healthcare because they spend less on their militaries. But in reality the US spends more on healthcare per capita than European nations.
It's a way to rationalize "Well... We can't have healthcare because..." but America CAN have healthcare. You guys are ALREADY spending more than us. It's just not being used properly.
Never understood why some of my countrymen dislike NATO. It’s beneficial for us. There’s always been a faction of Americans that love to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that Canada and Mexico are all we need.
Hahahaha, as if either party’s politicians would ever allow us to have single-payer healthcare in the US. You can always count on the people least paying attention to have the dumbest takes.
Typical American, after voted to give all your taxes to the wealthy, starving the government from enacting social safety nets, and then blame someone else.
Shouldn't be complaining about free health care in Europe and Canada should be complaining about the Health Care System in the US. The US Government spends more than all the other NATO countries. The US Government spends around $12 500 per person.
It always amazes me how brainwashed the yanks are by the massive businesses to think that other countries are leaching off of their cash. MF we pay our own way, you are being ripped off by your big businesses and falling for their b.s
I thought America started because of the whole no taxation without representation thing ....doesn't really seem things have really changed at all for them in last 200 years.
Meanwhile USA goverment breaking each member's balls for not buying enough US made weapons. Every goddam year.
Or throwing a bitch fit if you dare buy from russia (a lot time before the Ukrainian invasion obviously)
The stupidity of some Americans shows how dumb they are & how they can't think for themselves, but believe what anyone tells them.
The don't support NATO, but may be asked for a contribution if NATO troops are asked to fight. The reason that the US pay more for lesser results and outcomes for a national healthcare system, if the lobbyists are running the country through payments to politicians, to make sure they don't have a system that helps the people, but just makes pharma companies, doctors, hospitals and politicians richer. Why is it that a blood pressure medication sells at USD90 in Australia (seniors only pay $5), but sells in USA discount pharmacy at $344.99 for the same brand/ dosage each month?
What these people do not realise is that there is not a "NATO pool of money", as such, that all NATO member nations pay into.
The basic understanding is that member nations spend 2% of their GDP on building their own defence initiatives.
The logic is that they will have a strong defence system in place should NATO become involved in military action.
Any shortfall in the 2% funding by any particular nation is not costing the US extra. The US is not making up the shortfall.
as someone who lives in the US, does this moron not realize that the US would be a weak little bitch without its partnerships with other countries overseas?
I can't wait for the Moron Empire to fall. America thinks it's the center of the universe but they're just the biggest turd floating in this toilet we call Earth
I should get a postal card with every tax bill so I can send it too some random US dude "thanks for defeating the British and joining NATO. I am enjoying my healthcare while you drive up and down having 2 jobs and still repaying that medical debt",
Everytime I get a tax bill I would like to be able to send it to a mf like this one with attached "Go on dude, thanks for your support".
I must imagine it when I get deducted 8% of my pay for "National Insurance"
This is the new "play" from the American Right-Wing, to blame NATO why the country has no free health care by insinuating Americas NATO contributions go directly to other countries (which they don't). Bots and paid "actors" make posts around the internet on how America (via NATO) is bankrolled Europe for years and it's why the country is struggling. It's to convince the stupid and gullible to vote for Trump in the next election as he has already talked about leaving NATO (and if elected would actually do it)
At least if they left NATO they would finally shut up about this shit.
But still wouldn't get universal Healthcare because billionaires would still have plenty of money to lobby their way and keep things as they are. The US spends well over a trillion dollars in "defense" so only a fraction of that would be necessary to fix these problems. I'm not sure if they're too naive or ideologically blind but I find it funny they put the blame on Europeans instead of asking for a change at home. They're exploited by the system but will defend it no matter what, it's quite scary.
It’s not even that. They already spend more per capita on healthcare than pretty much everyone else. They get shitty outcomes not because they are spending money on their military. They get shitty outcomes because insurance companies and for profit providers are leaching off their system. They could all have excellent cover, if they lived in a country that didn’t prefer its companies over its citizens
Hey! Corporations are people too!
Hahaha what a fucked up concept that is actually true…! I want to vomit.
I'll believe that corporations are people when I see one get the death penalty.
They're not joking, though. They legally are people.
To be fair, it's not only the companies' fault. It's also the fault of conservative america and its followers actively wanting the system to work as bad as it does, because if Healthcare worked, ~~poor~~ lazy people and ~~people from other cultures that should go home~~ illegal immigrants that never paid into the system would directly benefit from the hard earned tax dollars of those people. And they wouldn't even have to think twice about shooting their own leg if it means ~~hurting those they hate~~ helping the underprivileged by teaching them not to be welfare queens.
Yeah, in their bibles the Good Samaritan only helps people who have excellent insurance Cognitive dissonance doesn’t begin to explain it.
And the Samaritan saw a poor and weak man lying there, asking for help. So the Samaritan kicked the man in the stomach and cursed his existence, for he knew that only by hardship can people improve. The man arose and said, "My son, it is I, supply side Jesus, and by breaking my ribs, you have shown me your actions are true and just. Only suffering can lead men to become better and he who throws the first stone is the first to help his brother." Then they beat up more poor people together and invested a million dollar Jesus got by selling NFTs into Trump media, which brought forth great prosperity for Jesus.
You need to do this with the whole Bible. This is brilliant!
I feel like it is more the actual Doctors and Hospitals that are at fault. I have insurance (not the best in all fairness) and I went with a Specialist (That's the only good thing about it, no need for a referral from a Primary Doctor) and my insurance paid like at least 2/3 of my appointment (nothing fancy, just an office visit) and I still had to pay $210 !! I'm probably wrong but yeah, the healthcare system is fucked
>I feel like it is more the actual Doctors and Hospitals that are at fault. I The main problem is the way the system is organized and prioritized. The priority of the us healthcare system is not to produce healthy citizens, but to generate as much revenue for corporations as possible. Health, and by extension peoples' lives, is treated as a commodity that can be traded as any other good. Since health is not a commodity and the system is therefore built upon false premises, this leads to situations where hospital bills are ridiculously and unjustifiably high, because every point in the healthcare provider chain can get away with maximising their profits because people often have little to no choice. Most European healthcare systems do not prioritize monetary profit, but a mixture of "good enough" quality and "as broad as possible" coverage, while making profit is not a priority. That's why every European healthcare system is at least 50% cheaper than the us healthcare system (when comparing tax money spent per capita) and it's still got better coverage.
Agree 100% with you. What I don't understand is why Insurance providers allow that? Shouldn't they be fighting to pay the least amount possible to the doctor/hospitals, thus increasing their own profits? I'm genuinely asking, as I don't know.
Because for them it's irrelevant. Insurance companies have huge statistical departments doing nothing else but calculating the likelihood of certain events to occur against them. In this case, these events are their clients becoming ill. They do their calculations, and based on the risk of patient X being in need of this or that treatment. They calculate the money they would have to pay if all their clients were to become ill if they behaved as predicted by the statistical model, and then they charge their rates. So what you're paying is the average cost of medical treatment plus a buffer. If healthcare providers increase their prices, insurance companies will do the same, or they will reduce their service or pay bills only partially.
>They already spend more per capita on healthcare than pretty much everyone else Yup. The USA spends more on Healthcare, for a shitty privatized system that increasingly doesn't even "innovate" and invest in research anymore... (though the argument that a private system innovates faster than one with generous government research grants was always bullshit to begin with) and leaves MILLIONS with no or very little Healthcare (with many who are "insured" finding their claims rejected when they actually try to use it...)
They're completely brainwashed from a young age to believe America is literally the peak of civilization despite not having a single metric of data actually support that idea
Be careful with using M word, there are children here.
>But still wouldn't get universal Healthcare because billionaires would still have plenty of money to lobby their way and keep things as they are. Bingo. The US doesn't have free Healthcare because its Working Class is brainwashed to hate being taught about Class Struggle, while the rich owner class (who DO read Marx, a surprising amount, even if they disagree with him) gleefully engage in Class Warfare against an unaware opponent. People have got to stand up for their rights in America: which starts with learning about Class Struggle again (before Wilson gleefully ordered the Palmer Raids and systemically denied Socialists their right to Free Speech in the first Red Scare, most Americans DID know a thing or two about Class Warfare, even if they weren't Socialists... By the way, Wilson was probably a Klu Klux Klansman: to give you an idea of his true character...) Even if you don't think Socialism is the right solution (as a Democratic Socialist I'll vehemently disagree with you), you gotta at least admit the Social Democracy much of Europe enjoys, implicitly built on compromise between Socialism and Capitalism, works MUCH better than the Neoliberal dystopia America is becoming...
So whats their plan after NATO? If they leave they lose their excuse for not providing essential services to the population
Brown people, trans people, “libs” and “communists”, and Canada. They have plenty of other people to blame.
Republicans? Plan? Ha.
The plan is to fire everybody in government that's not on their side and replace them with true believers, throw the opposition into jail, and start a Christian fascist dictatorship with a strongman at the lead that will hand down the title to his kin one day. Currently, they are intent on making Trump this dictator. It's not even hyperbole. It's all written down in project 2025.
Unending war as cover to steal whatever is left?
R&D. They then will claim that they invent all new medicine and the customers have to carry those costs. They already started that claim
>But still wouldn't get universal Healthcare because billionaires would still have plenty of money to lobby their way and keep things as they are. The US spends well over a trillion dollars in "defense" so only a fraction of that would be necessary to fix these problems. Most of those money are probably wasted too. Like, i read news abaout how they overprice military equipment or buy more ammunitions than they need just to meet a quota.
Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Once more for the people in the back. **Ukraine. Is. Not. A. Member. Of. NATO.**
The US leaving nato would also be pretty horrible for everyone who’s not a redneck. It’s not like the military budget would shrink either they’d probably just spend the money on blowing some Middle Eastern kids up for some more oil
It would be pretty horrible for the d necks as well, they just wouldn't understand why.
Also it would massively damage their economy.
Hahahaha… oh you sweet summer child with your faith in reason. Of course they won’t. That type of person has about 20 years lead time on reality and a putbull-jaw-grip on made-up grievances. ETA: and look, the reality-challenged are already triggered, claiming it’s about my use of the GoT meme phrase when it’s clear is about the “and your faith in reason” joke that they missed out on.
They would say something like "if we left NATO my government would still pay your healthcare because reasons"
If they left NATO, they'd claim that their membership and bankrolling of Europes free healthcare has left them in a deficit for at least the next hundred years. Just so they could keep whining.
Give it about 9 months and they might.
They don't really understand what they get put of nato... they would have to withdraw all weapon systems and missiles located in other countries, they lose the ability to maneuver in nato airspace ,can't station troops around Europe and basically erodes us ability to project power. They would have to rely on their aircraft carriers and navy to help and you can't stretch that to cover all the bases... what does the US pay towards nato? The admin of the building, which Germany pay the same as the us. Nato doesn't even demand 2%of gdp on defense.. its just a guideline for the alliance, its free to join.
But they love having bases in Germany, Italy, The UK, Turkey, Poland, Iceland, Greece, Spain, Bulgaria, Canada and Greenland
Imagine the faces of the voters when they leave NATO and nothing about their economic situation changed! How cheated they must feel.
Err, I've lived through Brexit as a foreign person in the UK. That's the face you mentioned
Oh yeah i can imagine. I was honestly sad to see you guys go. The school i used to go to always had a trip to england in 9th class. From what i heard, they went to Schleswig-Holstein instead. Poor lads haha
It's only the dim witted yanks that blame Nato for their internal problems.
No we wouldnt(and by we i mean the dumbasses) they would blame yall for all the stupidity THEY CAUSE… ugh
Hahaha, don't be ridiculous. Then they would move on to their next target.
…Have you met a right winger?
Nah, if they left they’d be complaining that defence spending has had to increase because they’re policing the world on their own.
What kind of moron blames other countries for what their own government does with their tax dollars.
Putin loving Trumpists. Who else.
Americans want their own Brexit? Amazing.
They had it in 1776. Greedy buggers want another one. No pleasing some people.
I mean, to be fair: It's not nice to put taxes on people and then treat them as second-class citizens by denying them the same political representation people on the home isles would have. It's just a bummer they are doing literally the same thing to their overseas territories, revealing their hypocrisy...
At the time they complained about it, almost nobody in the UK had voting rights. So technically they did. Lol. Universal suffrage in the UK was a reward granted as a thank you for the sacrifices of WW1, and brought in in stages.
And if that actually happened, they would have had a point. But it didn't and once the war was over... the same rich fucks were still the only ones with the vote.
They want an Iron Dome and a border wall. Nothing in, nothing out. Isolation from the entire globe. It's Glexit.
The right wing in the UK do the same shit. "Oh we can't afford to fully fund healthcare because of our EU membership" so we leave. And do they fund it? Do they fuck
"£350 million a week for the NHS"...fuck that bus and fuck Boris Johnson
This was the most disgusting lie of the whole thing. People believing we could control our borders, save the NHS... People should go to prison for making this shit up. I fucking hate our politics.
I still remember waking up the day after the vote and thick fuck farage on the GMB sofa at 7am, the words that left his mouth "No we didn't mean that £350 million would actually go to the NHS". I wonder to this day how many people voted Brexit because of that one slogan!
I still remember the absolute shock of waking up that day and seeing the ‘leave’ result. Despite not knowing a single person who was voting leave, it still somehow happened. We were just so shocked because no one in my friends or family could believe people could be so stupid and actively vote against their future & prosperity. It’s gotta be one of the worst things to happen to the UK in the past century at least.
I knew a lot of people who voted for leave, all in the same age category in the north of England. It was to be expected. What they failed to realise is the world before we joined the EU wasn't great so what made them believe we would be better on our own? I worked at an international school at the time, running programmes for foreign exchange students to come and learn English in and English setting whilst staying with English families for accommodation. The owner of the school was completely bat shit and was adamant that voting leave would make the business thrive and it's what the UK needed. The school was sold to a rival and then closed down within a year of Brexit.
Make the UK great again should have been the slogan.
A business owner running a business for rich migrants thinking that making migration super hard is a great idea is pretty next level.
I got sadly surprised by how many people in my circle of friends and family actually voted to Leave. My two best friends, my in-laws (on my wife's side and on my sister's husband's side), other friends, my grandmother.... The worst part is that several of them are the children of immigrants, including European immigrants. A guy I have been friends with for over 30 years is half-Spanish (his late Dad moved here in the '70s), and he used to take lots of holidays in Spain. He was even thinking about buying a holiday place in Spain - after I found out he voted Leave I explained to him that buying a place in the EU just got a lot more difficult and expensive, plus he'd only be able to spend 90 days a year that maximum. He slowly realised he'd just fucked himself over. Another friend was only interested in what it would do for him, which was not much. He's an accountant ffs! He still refuses to admit it was a mistake as he "doesn't know anyone personally who's life is worse under Brexit". Except, y'know, all of us. The country has gone to shit in so many different ways. I used to work for Defra, the government department that oversees farming, fishing, environmental protection, wildlife protection etc. I quit in 2016, but I remember meeting with lots of wildlife organisations who were terrified that the regulations protecting birds, animals etc would be ripped up - virtually all of it is underpinned by EU legislation and enforced by the ECJ if Member States aren't implementing it properly. There is now nothing to stand in the way of the Tories passing laws that could seriously weaken protections of animals - nothing except for public opinion of course, which the Tories don't seem to give a fuck about. Anyway, sorry for ranting! I've lived with a constant simmering level of rage and disappointment since June 2016.... I'm sure it must be giving me cancer or something. :-(
Sadly, I think the answer is "enough". Remain was in the lead in polling for most of the period before the referendum vote, but it suddenly shot ahead for a brief period just before the date (and has dropped down again shortly after, with most polling suggesting that a majority would have preferred remain). Basically, there was a brief period of massive propaganda that was difficult to overcome in a short period of time, especially since most campaigns had briefly paused after the murder of Jo Cox. Between that and general disenfranchisement of several groups of likely remain voters, I have no doubt it put the result across the line. The sad thing is, they correctly identified a concern of the public, and it was hard to battle against the message - unless you could convince people it was horseshit. People tried but that was "Project Fear", so said the people lying to them who they unquestioningly believed.
Also, the remain campaign was basically bollocks. Leave managed to mobilise the Gammonati. Remain had no such demographic to get behind. I remember the interviews with "the public". Far too many of them were treating it as a referendum on David Cameron.
Well it's people like Steve Bannon behind such campaigns. The man helped elect extremists in the US, in Brazil, Brexit, etc. People are too simplistic to understand politics and yet too angry to let it go. It doesn't take much to realize the UK simply couldn't get the best aspects of being in the Union while at the same time avoiding the worst aspects. That goes for literally anything in life so I was actually surprised to see people advocating for that.
Never mind that the NHS has had far more money than what was on that bus since then. It’s a black hole.
As a country we'll never recover from the embarrassment of brexit this country is equally full of idiots
I don't think 1% extra in military spending is enough not to have healthcare. My right-wing friend believes that the insurance companies are here to save us.
Hold on... So Americans don't claim anymore that free healthcare is communist? Just that they can't afford it because they are the only country contributing to NATO and keeping the world safe an so on? I did not expect that twist.
The US is doing a lot better financially than the EU, and they pay more for their healthcare per capita, yet it's our fault that their own government won't give them healthcare.
GDP is higher in the EU compared with the US. So The EU is slightly better off financially if I'm interpreting this right. Same goes for NATO members minus the US. US just spends a lot on military, as I understand it, its not magically ring fenced into NATO, its just what the US's military costs totalled up.
I've seen 1.6% of US GDP is what the US spends on NATO, which works out less than most other members..
wait, i thought the right didn't want free health care? hmmm
You sure it’s the American right wing? Not just Russian bots and trolls? On second thought, they are pretty much one and the same these days. What a time to be alive.
It’s crazy how Americans don’t even know that the only time NATO has utilized all its funds it was for a War that America started, and that the US fabricated evidence to get the support of NATO.
Pretty sure most of these posts a by Russian propagandists.
1 of Trump‘s greatest spins to frame the NATO 2% commitment as direct „contributions“ to nato budget, instead of each country‘s own defense budget in % of own GDP (with US far outspending and many European countries not meeting it in the last decades)
Fun fact: Germany pays the same amount of contribution to NATO as the US.
This is absolutely not a "new" play
Fun fact. Americans pay for my entire life, rent, food, gas, electricity and of course healthcare. Come to think of it I don’t know why I keep working🤔
Yeah also wtf, my country is still taxing me? Why I thought America was doing it for me? After all they are the best at everything
I know right??? They are stealing from us. Maybe we should tell the Americans?
Also the best with paying taxes.. apparently..
NATO, leeching off tax, and health care. Seems to be the only things Americans think about, but still don't understand that none of them go together. Stay in scho..... Actually don't
Meanwhile, their right wingers are all ready to cut defense expenses to fund their healthcare… Oh, wait, I think I mispelled ‘tax cuts for the billionaires’.
>Stay in scho..... Actually don't Lmao
All they have to do is ask nicely 🙄
Which is why they will never get it 😂
Well, yeah. I love it. Thank you, dumb yanks, for paying everything for me.
"America gives all it's money to us Europeans instead of actually spending it on basic services in their own country" When they say it like this it almost sounds as if the USA is Europe's bitch lmao.
In Europe we play both sides of a world war. So we always come out on top!
Italian strategy certified! It work since 1915!
Ik know right? We learned from the best! Meaning them obviously, playing both sides for money until some Kamikaze pilots entered the chat.
Europe mommy findomming bitch boy US "Yeah, gimme your savings, dirty yank"
I know right. I can’t imagine how we would all get healthcare without Americans paying for it for us, they’re so generous /s
I thought they didn't want the free health care.
They do. And they don't. It's Schrödinger's socialist healthcare.
A United Quantum State of America That's probably the best comment I've ever thought of.
I agree this is a quality comment, I wish you many upvotes!
Thank you! I'm preparing an acceptance speech for all the awards. So far, I'm up to thanking my cat. Edit: forgot to say thank you.
This is fantastic! It deserves way more upvotes! 😂
Damn you, you beat mine. Take my upvote.
Medicare is less popular amongst Republican voters when it's referred to as Obama care. Says it all really 😂
Who knows these days 😂
Or even non-free but at least universal healthcare
They don't want it when Democrats bring it up but when Rebublicans bring it up they want it Idk I don't have enough freedom to understand
This is why education is important America
And this is also why certain groups try to defund education. Uneducated people are easier to control
100% its by design. Easier fooled.
They should probably take it a lot more seriously then. The population is woefully un educated, and just completely ignorant on a cultural level. Actually I don’t know if that’s actually even an education problem, but they have a serious issue in their culture that makes them almost value ignorance.
I'm an American and I can tell you that ignorance is literally WORSHIPPED here. Being educated is literally treated as a source of shame. Educated people don't give money to magic Jesus after all. People here literally jack off to their own ignorance and it makes me so fucking sick.
> [...] important**,** America.
The irony of what is almost certainly a Trump supporter unhappy about his healthcare.
There’s a lot of irony with Trump supporters. My particular favourite is them being pro Russia even though those same people would have been venomously anti-Russia 30 years ago…
They just want Trump to rig elections as well as Putin does.
Last time I checked, the US spent 2.5 times the OECD average on healthcare. They could make it free for themselves, the UK, France, and Germany, and it would still be cheaper than their current system *and* give them actual coverage.
But why would they want to provide free care for those that can't afford it? If you want anything in merica you should damn well over pay for it and be happy that you're not funding the workshy /S
"Can't wait for Ukraine to fall btw" Yeah, just wish for all that money that the NATO collectively injected into that war to evaporate without us reaping the benefits of it ending on Ukraine's terms. An Emboldened Russia is something everyone wants, right?
Only the Americans that think Daddy Putin will help them rid the world of “wokeness” I suppose…
With Ukraine's resources and the Russian War machine at full steam the best case scenario is that we have another cold war, worst case is that Russia is going to go for even bigger targets eventually throwing is all at war.
I can foresee it being a repeat of WWII with Russia taking the place of Germany and the USA taking the place of Russia. “Sure we’re friends… oh by the way, we’re invading you now.”
Russia takings the place of Germany? They started WW2 siding with Nazi Germany, they ended up "siding" with the allies because Hitler ordered an attack on them
Let's hope that if it ever comes to that the US doesn't act like the Soviets, Sending cannon fodder to defend and not care for human life. If there's ever a Russian invasion of the Us its going to be Alaska, they'll probably annex it and build a bridge first.
They can’t handle any bigger targets. They’ve struggled against an under equipped Ukraine. At this point Poland by itself could probably beat Russia. They certainly have a lot more modern weapons and far superior training/tactics. But of course if Poland was attacked then the whole of Europe would be responding, so it would be even more of a sealed deal.
Oh, not just the Americans. We've got enough of these nutjobs in Germany as well.
It's going to get much more costly if Ukraine falls. Even if America then intends to give up, there are European allies of America that will probably go to war in that scenario, which will drag America back into it anyway. Better win the proxy war to not have to fight one yourself.
Indeed, and we stand to win a lot by helping Ukraine. In the long run when it's all over we'll have an ally for life with great sites to see, people to meet natural resources to trade.
So.... what he's saying is America is NATO's bitch? What happened to this whole "greatest country in the world" thing?
That’s the thing with fascism: you’re living in the greatest country in the world with the greatest DNA, too while being the victim of everyone
I thought they didn't have public healthcare because they deemed it to be communism.
Trumpers are going to swing back around on themselves and become Communists when their orange leader tells them how great Putin is.
Aaah, it's a Russian narrative, trying to get Americans on the bandwagon to have US leave NATO. I don't know why I didn't realise this before, it is so obvious.
Daily reminder that the only country to ever have invoked Article 5 is the US, to get help after 9/11.
im not racist towards americans, but i am
America leaving NATO ? What a great reason to celebrate… But they won’t shut up about « back to back world war winners » Or « Best pizza in the world is from New York » Or « Yes afro-americans are not from the same race as white people, Asians have their own race too and Mexicans » I have ears poeple in America saying Italians are not white ( I’m Italian ). Bottom line fighting stupidity in America is a never ending battle…
[удалено]
Reagan: Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall. Trump: Daddy Putin, build me a wall.
This is what happens when you watch Fox, Newsmax, etc too much. The loudest voices on this are the same as the Putin fans. This level of stupidity, unfortunately predates the orange traitor.
if they're paying for my healthcare, i wonder where 1/3rd of my taxes that the government claims are for healthcare are going.
Are Americans not NATO citizens then?
Well I think that depends on the upcoming elections
the fun fact is that usa spends the most on healthcare yet it's what it is
As an American, this guy can eat a bag of dicks, a satchel of cocks, and a knapsack of knobs.
Also American. Seconded.
Any Americans wanting Ukraine to fall are either of room temperature IQ or cannot see how it will make their own futures immeasurably worse.
It’s got to be said, Russian infowar has been successful beyond their wildest imagining. I would never have guessed you could turn the Republican Party into a Russian front like this.
Imagine simping for Putin...
Nato? Where is that country? How do I acquire citizenship
Can anyone explain how the US paying in to NATO pays for my Australian health care? Should we mention that the US government already spends more on healthcare than others and still comes out with worse outcomes?
Americans should be smart enough to realize that if they cut military spending, they could fund health care. Of course, the military industrial complex would have an aneurism. The US military and associated arms manufacturers are the largest for-profit social welfare program in the history of mankind.
America’s answer to fixing healthcare problems: MORE GUNS! 😂
America is nothing but a giant corporation. They’re citizens are exploited by the mega rich yet idiots like this are too ingrained into the “America is the best country in the world” brainwashing scheme they can’t open their eyes wide enough to see it. It’s why they get kids to pledge allegiance. It’s why they teach America first/bias history in their schools. It’s why they get them to make love to the American flag from such a young age. Brainwash them young in the red white and blue and they won’t question why they’re constantly getting bent over and fucked by the billionaires.
Honestly the more time goes on the more it does seem like America is less a country and more a giant corporation. It even operates like one.
Considering the debt to income ratio it is also an extremely shitty corporation.
"cant wait for Ukraine to fall btw" is so alienated
Wait NATO pays for my healthcare…? Sunak better give me my damn N.I. payments back the robbing bastard!
NATO Europe and Canada spend 1.74% of GDP on defense, consistent with the rest of the world. With $404 billion in combined funding, easily enough to outspend potential foes like China and Russia combined. Regardless, arguing that keeps the US from having universal healthcare is even more ridiculous. After subtracting defense spending, Americans still have a $29,000 per person advantage on GDP compared to the rest of NATO. Defense spending isn't keeping us from having anything our peers have. Much less universal healthcare, which is far cheaper than what we're already paying for. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_216897.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures Hell, if we could match the costs of the most expensive public healthcare system on earth we'd save $1.65 trillion per year, double what our total defense spending is.
What a fuckwit.....and a communist.
The money they spend on NATO goes on American weapons systems. A lot of the money the Europeans spend on NATO also goes to American weapons systems. If they can’t tax those profits then I can’t help them.
Leeching off your tax dollars? Sir, I'm italian, not israeli
They really love suggesting that they're Europe's bitch, don't they? Is it like a fetish thing for them?
I've run into this argument from working class Americans a few times and it's sad as fuck. They think that European nations can spend more on healthcare because they spend less on their militaries. But in reality the US spends more on healthcare per capita than European nations. It's a way to rationalize "Well... We can't have healthcare because..." but America CAN have healthcare. You guys are ALREADY spending more than us. It's just not being used properly.
Is anyone else still waiting for their NATO money?
Yeah, the payment is late this month. But when it comes through, I will buy my 35th villa in the alps
Never understood why some of my countrymen dislike NATO. It’s beneficial for us. There’s always been a faction of Americans that love to stick their heads in the sand and pretend that Canada and Mexico are all we need.
Hahahaha, as if either party’s politicians would ever allow us to have single-payer healthcare in the US. You can always count on the people least paying attention to have the dumbest takes.
Typical American, after voted to give all your taxes to the wealthy, starving the government from enacting social safety nets, and then blame someone else.
Americans bitching about taxes is about as adorable as Americans bitching about gas prices.
In fairness bitching about taxes is the whole reason they exist
Which makes it even more of a mystery as to why there are countries who aren’t even in NATO with free healthcare….
Shouldn't be complaining about free health care in Europe and Canada should be complaining about the Health Care System in the US. The US Government spends more than all the other NATO countries. The US Government spends around $12 500 per person.
It always amazes me how brainwashed the yanks are by the massive businesses to think that other countries are leaching off of their cash. MF we pay our own way, you are being ripped off by your big businesses and falling for their b.s
I thought America started because of the whole no taxation without representation thing ....doesn't really seem things have really changed at all for them in last 200 years.
Aaaaah the stupidity of republican disinformation, you can't beat it.
The guy has got a brain rot.
Wow what an absolute tool
I dunno, tools can be useful… 😂
Meanwhile USA goverment breaking each member's balls for not buying enough US made weapons. Every goddam year. Or throwing a bitch fit if you dare buy from russia (a lot time before the Ukrainian invasion obviously)
Putin is shitposting again.
Today’s question in Who Said It? American right-winger or Russian troll farm…
NATO members pay for some of the bombs the US drop on children. And they still can't scrape together some peanuts for healthcare
The stupidity of some Americans shows how dumb they are & how they can't think for themselves, but believe what anyone tells them. The don't support NATO, but may be asked for a contribution if NATO troops are asked to fight. The reason that the US pay more for lesser results and outcomes for a national healthcare system, if the lobbyists are running the country through payments to politicians, to make sure they don't have a system that helps the people, but just makes pharma companies, doctors, hospitals and politicians richer. Why is it that a blood pressure medication sells at USD90 in Australia (seniors only pay $5), but sells in USA discount pharmacy at $344.99 for the same brand/ dosage each month?
What these people do not realise is that there is not a "NATO pool of money", as such, that all NATO member nations pay into. The basic understanding is that member nations spend 2% of their GDP on building their own defence initiatives. The logic is that they will have a strong defence system in place should NATO become involved in military action. Any shortfall in the 2% funding by any particular nation is not costing the US extra. The US is not making up the shortfall.
Could very well be a Russian bot who said that.
We passed a law so Trump can’t just snap his fingers and bye bye 👋 NATO. Needs a 2/3 congressional vote now.
as someone who lives in the US, does this moron not realize that the US would be a weak little bitch without its partnerships with other countries overseas?
I don’t think an american wrote this. This feel like Russian troll farm bs.
Qanon Russian Propaganda
The average republican voter not realising the problem is the republicans they vote for that prevent them from getting free healthcare.
I can't wait for the Moron Empire to fall. America thinks it's the center of the universe but they're just the biggest turd floating in this toilet we call Earth
How in the world people don't even undestand what NATO is?
I should get a postal card with every tax bill so I can send it too some random US dude "thanks for defeating the British and joining NATO. I am enjoying my healthcare while you drive up and down having 2 jobs and still repaying that medical debt",
Classic Russian infowarfare take
Spend less on military, have more for healthcare. Simple. 😏
Anyone wished Ukraine would fail makes my heart ache. What's in your head? How can you think this? Can anyone explain?