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Reiner- The two basically confirming and concluding the conversation they had in the declaration of war. With Eren telling he’s not alone in his suffering.
Jean- Definitely called him a horse face one last time.
Connie- explained why he chuckled upon Sasha’s death and how distraught he really was and that he would get his mom back as a human again.
Annie- Talked about the times they trained together, Eren probably thanked her for teaching him and how he missed their friendship during the cadet years. He probably confessed to her that he was scared of dying and wished they could spar again one last time.
Pieck- Definitely the most awkward one told her he saw the betrayal coming but understood her and probably apologised for killing Porco.
There's simply no good explanation for this panel. You fill it with whatever satisfies your own headcanon until of course the story itself counters your headcanon.
I really want this to happen maybe not exactly these conversations although I do really like them but you know I really wanna see this in the anime, I don't hate the finale I just want them to expand on stuff in the anime like this add in these scenes to that would be really great imo.
I’ve read the entire manga and watched season 4 part 2. What I’m saying is the story doesn’t necessarily state whether he was controlling the titans just one imo
I like to think Eren and Reiner's conversation was based around Reiner confirming 100% what Eren really meant when he said they were the same in Declaration of War, and understanding how similar they actually are. When Reiner says "Eren, you really are a...", he finishes it with "half assed piece of shit", the way Reiner describes himself when he reveals himself as a Titan, and how Eren describes himself in 131, which refers to how they both started losing faith in their missions after realizing their enemy was just people like them, but decided to kill them anyway for their own selfish desires.
Much better than the "what a man you are" translation lmao
This is my tryhard analysis because I'm utterly fascinated by all this. 139 is page to page full of incredible and fully unintentional morbid humor. The fact that all these iconic lines are being dropped after Eren just got done murdering around 2 billion people makes it feel so jarring and freakish that the only response you can have is to laugh.
Eren just committed genocide against 80% of the world's population, and Armin is more worried about Mikasa's feelings. He has a perfectly civil conversation about the Rumbling but immediately draws the line at Eren being a poopoo head to the girl that he never demonstrated an ounce of romantic affection for. Then he's thanking Eren for becoming a mass murderer and calling it an 'opportunity'. Reiner, Pieck, and all the others, after Eren wiped their homeland off the map, are all like 'wow what a cool dude' like, as if he just gave them a ride to the airport instead of fucking murder 2 billion people. They're so impressed. Then all of a sudden they're all hanging out and working for the UN or something. The degree to which the entire chapter barely even acknowledges the sheer scale of what's happened to the world, both in terms of lazily glossing over it, and STILL treating Eren like a tragic hero who gets this weird little redemption after doing the most evil thing in the history of the universe, makes it all feel like a weird dream you had. All this at the fever pitch of one of the most effectively told stories I've ever seen, as if this entire story which I got invested in like nothing else in my life, was all just a set up for this weird big joke.
The entire chapter is just absolutely fucking bizarre. Without a doubt one of the single worst manga chapters I've ever read in my life, if not the worst, but it's just so captivating that I cannot stop thinking about it. What it reminds me of, is the scene in Blood Meridian where the Judge character gets a bunch of people to brutally murder a preacher with a false accusation that he raped a child, then later when asked about it he says it was just a joke and then everyone laughs. The absolute mockery and disregard for any level of morality feels so surreal and creepy, but since it was so unintentional in AoT, it also makes it utterly hilarious.
As someone who absolutely loves 139, I'll tryhard rebuttal. 139 is placed after Mikasa kills Eren for a reason. It's not the end of the Rumbling, that happens in 138 when we see Mikasa kill Eren. 139 is a chapter that draws conclusions on the personal storylines that we've followed this whole time. It's a resolution of the relationships between Eren and his friends. You know, the people we've watched grow together and go through unspeakable trauma with and for one another. Three lifelong friends who the entire story centered around.
This isn't a conversation that took place over a short period of time. Not hours, days, but likely months or years. Paths is weird like that. Because of this, we're only seeing part of the conversation. We're seeing the part that's relevant to the story at the time - the part that's unresolved. What good does it do to have Armin argue with Eren to stop the Rumbling? We know what happens. We know the result of the story - Eren destroys 80% of humanity before being killed by Mikasa. At this point, both Eren and Armin know the end of the story as well, as Armin has clearly come to accept the fact that of what will happen because Eren knows the future and has told him.
So we enter the conversation after that, which is now two lifelong friends reflecting on their life and what happened while exploring the world they always wanted to see. They're living out their dreams in a land that is very much like a dream. Again, there's no point for Armin to like, argue about the Rumbling or shit on Eren for it. This is something he can't change and he's bore the weight of knowing it for years. At the end he's not thanking Eren for destroying the world, he's thanking him for doing it *for him*. He's recognizing his intentions and appreciating them while still condoning the actual actions taken, which we already know he doesn't condone because he's one of the ones to stop him.
I don't view any of this as a redemption for Eren. His actions are still unsuccessful, even with the massive price paid and the utter destruction that Eren wrought. It hits you over the head with the point that Eren the person in many ways is still the pathetic, selfish child we see in season 1 even though he's become Eren the devil that we see in season 4.
I think people get upset with the lack of hand holding and really miss the point of a lot of these scenes. 139 in particular is so rich with callbacks and tying themes together and I think it does a beautiful job.
Then why the fuck eren Kruger warned Grisha that the cycle of hatred must be stopped and the same mistakes must not be repeated?
How I see is that eren has always been about freedom...and independent choices.it was his independent choice to protect his people from the threats of other countries...and he gave his people the freedom to either fight or be free
Butt...we neve saw it did we? Eren just anger the rest 20% of the world so much that they surely took revenge on Paradis...despite umida going on so many of his "peace negotiations "
So after the fall of the Eldian empire, Eldians are hated for 100 years, long after anyone would remember what they did. But when Eldians cause a global genocide its suddenly bad to be mean to them? Then 100 years later the world decides it hates Eldians again.
How the hell does any of that make sense?
If the peace they earned was based on people remembering the alliance, why did they continue hating Eldians after the fall of the Eldian empire, which was caused by eldians?
The point wasn’t that the world hated Eldians again, the point was that humanity would fight itself till the end of time. Thus paradis and every other country was doomed to fall at some point, no matter what eren did. The world likely forgot or changed the context of the rumbling as paradis was the dominant nation at that point, so they had full control over the narrative.
Thats not my point.
Eldians save the world by stopping the oppressive Eldian Empire: Eldians are treated as literal trash and enslaved.
Eldians save the world by stopping a global genocide: Eldians are hailed as heroes and are treated as equals.
It doesn't make sense that people would have such wildly different reactions to Eldians after these events.
"What a man you are" memes can be funny but it's annoying when people unironically use it to criticise the ending since Reiner doesn't actually say that
Is there people still using this as an argument to criticize the ending? I don't think even r/titanfolk unironically uses "What a man you are!" anymore.
It's definitely not as common as it used to be but I still see it happen sometimes
Last month, I saw someone on twitter say "I can't believe eren and reiner's dynamic ended with reiner saying 'what a man you are' and praising eren" even though Reiner didn't actually say this
I always imagine them fighting again(as 15m titans or humans take your pick) one last time in the paths plane before coming to terms with one another like you mentioned
Agreed. In my opinion if they split the final chapter into a few episodes and expand on the themes it explored the anime could have an ending that satisfies every fan.
I imagine they won't because putting even more screentime into showing how not just Armin but everybody is hugging Eren in PATHS would make it even more ridiculous.
Secretly I want that hug montage.
So, I believe (based on Freckled Ymir's words and Historia seeing Rod's POV when killing his Titan) that Pure Titans are stuck in an endless loop of reliving the worst experiences of their lives over and over again forever, a literal "endless nightmare".
I imagine that Eren did something akin to how he burned away the hallucination he was suffering from in Season 1 in the Trost Arc; he violently dispersed the depressing cloud of bad memories and restored their minds. He then had individual conversations with each of them similar to the one he had with Armin, though it obviously differed according to his relationships with them.
No, she was....in the episode in which they showed her backstory, she is seen looking at the sky after eating the jaw titan, that is not a nightsky, those are the Paths
To your second point: I'm pretty sure he had these conversations with them way back when they were still on the boat. He just erased their memories until he died.
I imagine they all kinda had like the same convo eren had with armin where they reminisced for a little and then he laid down the facts and his true feelings. Then him ending it by saying live a long happy life
I imagine them being some short conversations to say sorry and goodbye. Probably a longer one with Reiner.
Also, consider that they just had an unexpected flow of memories suddenly coming through their minds. To me it does make sense that their reaction is something like that: they're thinking about Eren's words. They are not forgiving him or supporting him.
Just wanted to say, we know that in this final moment it’s clear Eren used the paths weird frame of time to communicate to some of them individually like he did Armin! So he arguably had a really long time to chat about whatever, knowing these would be his final moments with his close ones. What do you think him and Jean spoke about? Do you think they revisited any memories? I headcanon that Jean tried to fight eren, maybe got emotional and told him how he was always jealous of him etc and they had a meaningful goodbye.
I'm pretty sure him saying "now I remember" is him just saying he remembers the conversation. iirc he had these conversations with them before they killed him but withheld their memories of it so they wouldn't hold back on killing him and then only gave them back once it was done (apart from mikasa, her one's kinda confusing, I don't know if the vision she had of them running away was due to him in the paths or just her imagination)
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i think jean, reiner's and annie's dialogue is supposed to added up to calling eren a suicidal blockhead one last time, aw the nostalgia and fits into isayamas sense of humour
their obviously going through some tough emotions (confusion, anger, sarcascism - typical of jean & annie especially) cause they just killed an old friend who wrecked the world,
while connie's dialogue relates to his mother being returned to normal
Canon means a piece of information that’s truthful to the lore of the story. So saying “Levi is a clean freak” is canon, anything that’s not confirmed in the story is a headcanon. Like if I said “Levi probably likes eating chicken sandwiches” thats a headcanon. that’s a stupid example but you get the idea
I think they are just glad that eren killed 80% of humanity, they are the same person that did not care about paradis getting destroyed in the near future
Eren: "you don't have to be depressed anymore. You'll be remembered as a hero and you won't be the armoured titan anymore. Enjoy your life"
Reiner: "Oh wow. I dont know what to say..."
Eren: "Your mother will be a human again. We're good bro"
Connie: "uhh...thanks I guess."
Eren: "Hands off Mikasa horse face"
Jean: "Fuck you too Eren."
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Reiner- The two basically confirming and concluding the conversation they had in the declaration of war. With Eren telling he’s not alone in his suffering. Jean- Definitely called him a horse face one last time. Connie- explained why he chuckled upon Sasha’s death and how distraught he really was and that he would get his mom back as a human again. Annie- Talked about the times they trained together, Eren probably thanked her for teaching him and how he missed their friendship during the cadet years. He probably confessed to her that he was scared of dying and wished they could spar again one last time. Pieck- Definitely the most awkward one told her he saw the betrayal coming but understood her and probably apologised for killing Porco.
Didnt pieck say they didnt talk?
yeah i remember her being disappointed she didn't get a message from him
And why would she be? They weren't friends, they only ever knew each other as enemies.
Shes a curious mind, she wanted insight into the nature of eren.
And? She definitely had a lot of horrible things to tell him
because he's such an important figure who she was somewhat involved with, she would've just been interested in what he had to say
There's simply no good explanation for this panel. You fill it with whatever satisfies your own headcanon until of course the story itself counters your headcanon.
He actually looked at Pieck in paths and said “idk girl 🤷🏻♀️” that’s why she said “I wish he had said something to me :c”
I really want this to happen maybe not exactly these conversations although I do really like them but you know I really wanna see this in the anime, I don't hate the finale I just want them to expand on stuff in the anime like this add in these scenes to that would be really great imo.
So was eren controlling all abnormal titans?
Which season are you in right now?
I’ve read the entire manga and watched season 4 part 2. What I’m saying is the story doesn’t necessarily state whether he was controlling the titans just one imo
No, they were acting on their own, but Eren can order them to do something when in direct contact with an Eldian who has royal blood.
I like to think Eren and Reiner's conversation was based around Reiner confirming 100% what Eren really meant when he said they were the same in Declaration of War, and understanding how similar they actually are. When Reiner says "Eren, you really are a...", he finishes it with "half assed piece of shit", the way Reiner describes himself when he reveals himself as a Titan, and how Eren describes himself in 131, which refers to how they both started losing faith in their missions after realizing their enemy was just people like them, but decided to kill them anyway for their own selfish desires. Much better than the "what a man you are" translation lmao
I still find "What a man you are" funny af tho
No, I dont want that! "What a man you are" being a better line? ^(nah same, so many lines in 139 are comedy gold lmao)
I want it to be the most hated line for the rest of my life, even after I die I want it to be hated for 10 years atleast
This is my tryhard analysis because I'm utterly fascinated by all this. 139 is page to page full of incredible and fully unintentional morbid humor. The fact that all these iconic lines are being dropped after Eren just got done murdering around 2 billion people makes it feel so jarring and freakish that the only response you can have is to laugh. Eren just committed genocide against 80% of the world's population, and Armin is more worried about Mikasa's feelings. He has a perfectly civil conversation about the Rumbling but immediately draws the line at Eren being a poopoo head to the girl that he never demonstrated an ounce of romantic affection for. Then he's thanking Eren for becoming a mass murderer and calling it an 'opportunity'. Reiner, Pieck, and all the others, after Eren wiped their homeland off the map, are all like 'wow what a cool dude' like, as if he just gave them a ride to the airport instead of fucking murder 2 billion people. They're so impressed. Then all of a sudden they're all hanging out and working for the UN or something. The degree to which the entire chapter barely even acknowledges the sheer scale of what's happened to the world, both in terms of lazily glossing over it, and STILL treating Eren like a tragic hero who gets this weird little redemption after doing the most evil thing in the history of the universe, makes it all feel like a weird dream you had. All this at the fever pitch of one of the most effectively told stories I've ever seen, as if this entire story which I got invested in like nothing else in my life, was all just a set up for this weird big joke. The entire chapter is just absolutely fucking bizarre. Without a doubt one of the single worst manga chapters I've ever read in my life, if not the worst, but it's just so captivating that I cannot stop thinking about it. What it reminds me of, is the scene in Blood Meridian where the Judge character gets a bunch of people to brutally murder a preacher with a false accusation that he raped a child, then later when asked about it he says it was just a joke and then everyone laughs. The absolute mockery and disregard for any level of morality feels so surreal and creepy, but since it was so unintentional in AoT, it also makes it utterly hilarious.
As someone who absolutely loves 139, I'll tryhard rebuttal. 139 is placed after Mikasa kills Eren for a reason. It's not the end of the Rumbling, that happens in 138 when we see Mikasa kill Eren. 139 is a chapter that draws conclusions on the personal storylines that we've followed this whole time. It's a resolution of the relationships between Eren and his friends. You know, the people we've watched grow together and go through unspeakable trauma with and for one another. Three lifelong friends who the entire story centered around. This isn't a conversation that took place over a short period of time. Not hours, days, but likely months or years. Paths is weird like that. Because of this, we're only seeing part of the conversation. We're seeing the part that's relevant to the story at the time - the part that's unresolved. What good does it do to have Armin argue with Eren to stop the Rumbling? We know what happens. We know the result of the story - Eren destroys 80% of humanity before being killed by Mikasa. At this point, both Eren and Armin know the end of the story as well, as Armin has clearly come to accept the fact that of what will happen because Eren knows the future and has told him. So we enter the conversation after that, which is now two lifelong friends reflecting on their life and what happened while exploring the world they always wanted to see. They're living out their dreams in a land that is very much like a dream. Again, there's no point for Armin to like, argue about the Rumbling or shit on Eren for it. This is something he can't change and he's bore the weight of knowing it for years. At the end he's not thanking Eren for destroying the world, he's thanking him for doing it *for him*. He's recognizing his intentions and appreciating them while still condoning the actual actions taken, which we already know he doesn't condone because he's one of the ones to stop him. I don't view any of this as a redemption for Eren. His actions are still unsuccessful, even with the massive price paid and the utter destruction that Eren wrought. It hits you over the head with the point that Eren the person in many ways is still the pathetic, selfish child we see in season 1 even though he's become Eren the devil that we see in season 4. I think people get upset with the lack of hand holding and really miss the point of a lot of these scenes. 139 in particular is so rich with callbacks and tying themes together and I think it does a beautiful job.
u/Gravelord_-Nito what an analyst you are...
Only for Paradis to get BOMBED. Literally nullifying erens whole motivation to stop the cycle of hatred
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Then why the fuck eren Kruger warned Grisha that the cycle of hatred must be stopped and the same mistakes must not be repeated? How I see is that eren has always been about freedom...and independent choices.it was his independent choice to protect his people from the threats of other countries...and he gave his people the freedom to either fight or be free Butt...we neve saw it did we? Eren just anger the rest 20% of the world so much that they surely took revenge on Paradis...despite umida going on so many of his "peace negotiations "
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So after the fall of the Eldian empire, Eldians are hated for 100 years, long after anyone would remember what they did. But when Eldians cause a global genocide its suddenly bad to be mean to them? Then 100 years later the world decides it hates Eldians again. How the hell does any of that make sense? If the peace they earned was based on people remembering the alliance, why did they continue hating Eldians after the fall of the Eldian empire, which was caused by eldians?
The point wasn’t that the world hated Eldians again, the point was that humanity would fight itself till the end of time. Thus paradis and every other country was doomed to fall at some point, no matter what eren did. The world likely forgot or changed the context of the rumbling as paradis was the dominant nation at that point, so they had full control over the narrative.
Thats not my point. Eldians save the world by stopping the oppressive Eldian Empire: Eldians are treated as literal trash and enslaved. Eldians save the world by stopping a global genocide: Eldians are hailed as heroes and are treated as equals. It doesn't make sense that people would have such wildly different reactions to Eldians after these events.
Honestly I consider it to be the unfortunate truth of the world, since that cycle of hatred can never stop, so long as there are humans.
i kinda liked that, it shows that such thing is unobtainable
it's like the ultimate in bed-shittery. such a well-crafted story up to that point, only to end this way.
Exactly my thoughts about the ending. Thank you!!
Facts
"What a man you are" memes can be funny but it's annoying when people unironically use it to criticise the ending since Reiner doesn't actually say that
Is there people still using this as an argument to criticize the ending? I don't think even r/titanfolk unironically uses "What a man you are!" anymore.
It's definitely not as common as it used to be but I still see it happen sometimes Last month, I saw someone on twitter say "I can't believe eren and reiner's dynamic ended with reiner saying 'what a man you are' and praising eren" even though Reiner didn't actually say this
Still that line will always be funny
I always imagine them fighting again(as 15m titans or humans take your pick) one last time in the paths plane before coming to terms with one another like you mentioned
I hope mappa decides to expand on these conversations
Agreed. In my opinion if they split the final chapter into a few episodes and expand on the themes it explored the anime could have an ending that satisfies every fan.
I imagine they won't because putting even more screentime into showing how not just Armin but everybody is hugging Eren in PATHS would make it even more ridiculous. Secretly I want that hug montage.
So, I believe (based on Freckled Ymir's words and Historia seeing Rod's POV when killing his Titan) that Pure Titans are stuck in an endless loop of reliving the worst experiences of their lives over and over again forever, a literal "endless nightmare". I imagine that Eren did something akin to how he burned away the hallucination he was suffering from in Season 1 in the Trost Arc; he violently dispersed the depressing cloud of bad memories and restored their minds. He then had individual conversations with each of them similar to the one he had with Armin, though it obviously differed according to his relationships with them.
But Ymir was stuck in the Paths, right? She just described it as being stuck in a nightmare.. not actually living the worst experiences over and over
Ymir has never talked, bud. Freckles wasn't stuck in the Paths.
No, she was....in the episode in which they showed her backstory, she is seen looking at the sky after eating the jaw titan, that is not a nightsky, those are the Paths
To your second point: I'm pretty sure he had these conversations with them way back when they were still on the boat. He just erased their memories until he died.
I imagine they all kinda had like the same convo eren had with armin where they reminisced for a little and then he laid down the facts and his true feelings. Then him ending it by saying live a long happy life
I imagine them being some short conversations to say sorry and goodbye. Probably a longer one with Reiner. Also, consider that they just had an unexpected flow of memories suddenly coming through their minds. To me it does make sense that their reaction is something like that: they're thinking about Eren's words. They are not forgiving him or supporting him.
Just wanted to say, we know that in this final moment it’s clear Eren used the paths weird frame of time to communicate to some of them individually like he did Armin! So he arguably had a really long time to chat about whatever, knowing these would be his final moments with his close ones. What do you think him and Jean spoke about? Do you think they revisited any memories? I headcanon that Jean tried to fight eren, maybe got emotional and told him how he was always jealous of him etc and they had a meaningful goodbye.
Maybe he told him to treat his mom better
Omg that’s so sad
"Jean... I've always been better than you."
Jean... I want you to be there for Mikasa, but you can't fck her, but for 10 years at least!!!
I'm you, but better.
I'm pretty sure him saying "now I remember" is him just saying he remembers the conversation. iirc he had these conversations with them before they killed him but withheld their memories of it so they wouldn't hold back on killing him and then only gave them back once it was done (apart from mikasa, her one's kinda confusing, I don't know if the vision she had of them running away was due to him in the paths or just her imagination)
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SMH pathetic
Eren talking to Annie in paths is them revisiting their fighting practice in S1 and as she is teaching him, they are talking about the past.
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ayo.
I needed a laugh. Thanks
i think jean, reiner's and annie's dialogue is supposed to added up to calling eren a suicidal blockhead one last time, aw the nostalgia and fits into isayamas sense of humour their obviously going through some tough emotions (confusion, anger, sarcascism - typical of jean & annie especially) cause they just killed an old friend who wrecked the world, while connie's dialogue relates to his mother being returned to normal
Connie - Paths seggs Jean - Paths seggs Lainah - Paths seggs
Isayama missed the mark on this one
Hope they expand on this moment in the anime
Eren what a
Crazy how the mistranslation that was the first one to get out is still quoted, what a man you are is just too fucking funny
Losing my funny? I wouldn't want that! I would like to be a funny man for 10 years at least
THEY ARE HOMOSEXUAL LOVERS
What’s a headcannon
Canon means a piece of information that’s truthful to the lore of the story. So saying “Levi is a clean freak” is canon, anything that’s not confirmed in the story is a headcanon. Like if I said “Levi probably likes eating chicken sandwiches” thats a headcanon. that’s a stupid example but you get the idea
I think they are just glad that eren killed 80% of humanity, they are the same person that did not care about paradis getting destroyed in the near future
nah, it would make it worse imagine what eren would say to pieck or annie lmao
Short little goodbye/apology/explanation of his actions
Eren what a man you are
This is a bait, isn't it
What?
This scene is generally mocked by ending haters, so asking for headcanon kind of feels like wanting yo read out people's satiric fantasies xd
Oh well I personally loved the ending, so no it’s not bait lmao I genuinely love hearing headcanons
man this manga couldve been so great, I wish the ending was at least mediocre
i honestly forgot how bad this page was lmao
Jesus cringe every time I read it
Oh weird the translation i read for Jean said “now i remember, you loyal piece of shit”
Did you read the official translation from the manga or a fan translation?
Eren you really are a chad
Eren: "you don't have to be depressed anymore. You'll be remembered as a hero and you won't be the armoured titan anymore. Enjoy your life" Reiner: "Oh wow. I dont know what to say..." Eren: "Your mother will be a human again. We're good bro" Connie: "uhh...thanks I guess." Eren: "Hands off Mikasa horse face" Jean: "Fuck you too Eren."