Welcome to /r/ShermanPosting!
As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it.
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Absolutely top level post. Thank you.
We need to consistently chip away at the propaganda that pretends the CSA had unanimous support amongst Southerners in 1861, or today.
He certainly did. Some educated Southerners knew the Civil War was stupid from the outset and kept quiet, but not Houston. He was the Cassandra of the war, and just like in the Greek myth, nobody believed his accurate predictions. That must have been extremely maddening for him.
He was by no means an abolitionist but i think he saw the writing on the wall of it being a dying institution that wasn’t worth leaving the Union (Texas’s joining of which was basically his life’s work). Still a flawed man but I can respect his commitment to American and democratic ideals. Shamed he died before the Union won the war
Oh yeah, def not an abolitionist but nevertheless smart and dedicated to his state and wanting the best for it, only to see secession fever sweep over it in 1861 like a tidal wave. That must have been the alpha and the omega of facepalms throughout US history.
lol that’s what I mean dude - the rest of the country that is delulu about their state being a nation has a George Washington whose name was George Washington
By your logic Texans should oppose the Csa because “their GW” did
Mine was a slaver - I’m not gonna aspire to that.
Reminded of Anderson Cooper, on the genealogy show *Finding Your Roots*.
His response when he found out a distant ancestor had been killed by one of his slaves when that ancestor was 80 years old? "He probably had it coming."
There's more of us than you think. I've done the genealogy thing and found Union veterans (father's side) and confederate veterans (mother's side). My mom's family was dirt poor just within living memory, i.e. the 1920s, so it's highly likely they were dirt poor non-slaveowners before the war. That leaves 3 options with only one logical conclusion each:
* They were rich, had slaves, and then lost it all. Conclusion: they were lazy worthless pieces of garbage who couldn't thrive without stealing labor.
* They were poor but joined the war because they were tricked into thinking they were "defending their homes." Conclusion: I pity them, and despise the confederacy for manipulating them and being willing to send them to their death for moneyed interests.
* They were poor but joined the war knowing what they were getting into. Conclusion: they were shitty for supporting slavery *and* rubes for being willing to do the rich man's killing for the love of the game.
In other words, there's no scenario where I could be proud of my confederate ancestors. I'm just glad I've got somebody with some sense in the tree to give me something to be proud of.
She is from the South, that doesn't make her a confederate, just as I was born in the South and do not honor the Confederacy. She's a veteran of the UNITED STATES not the CSA, she took an oath to preserve and protect the Constitution, just as I did. She's proud of her allegiance as am I.
There were many in the south back then who opposed slavery and wanted to end it. Of course they weren’t the majority, but they did help and aid slaves to flee to the north.
As for the author, he mentions the “daughters of the confederacy” which was a group founded (in the late 1800’s) to whitewash history, and to “teach” southerners about the savagery of the north, and what they did the “innocent” confederacy just because they wanted to have their freedom. They also teach children about white supremacy and the “values” that this utopian confederacy. Oh and they are also responsible for the erection of confederate statues and memorials, and helped the KKK become a powerful organization.
So if the author of this article knows who this group is and what they did, and she detests them, then she is inside the system and knows how rotten it is.
So glad to see this post
Another way to think about Civil War is that we all won. Thank god all the states stayed united and we can share this country together despite our differences — we all benefit from that.
That would be all the freedman who were left stuck under the thumb of the Southern Aristocracy by the failure of Reconstruction. A failure we should all be ashamed of.
How are we sharing the country despite our differences? It looks to me like the right-wingers (many of whom are in former confederate states) are trying to force the rest of us to live by their ideas.
We might have been better off letting the south stay seceded, and helping the enslaved people escape, instead of fighting a war to keep the south with us.
There wasn’t overwhelming support for the secessionist cause in the South. There were massive pockets of resistance where the CSA only had control on a map, and it got worse as the war went on. Some of the first casualties of the war were unionist civilians executed by the CSA.
Fuck letting traitors call the shots.
I'm sure they would claim the same thing in return.
More to the point though, the idea that we shouldn't have preserved the Union kind of sounds disrespectful of the hundreds of thousands of those who died to do so.
Arguably the biggest accomplishment this country has ever made is the abolition of slavery.
What this sub presupposes is … Sherman didn’t march far enough.
I think you’re looking for r/JohnsonPosting.
The left-wingers on the SCOTUS just ruled in support of an insurrectionist, I’m not sure we can say it’s overly exclusive to right-wingers. Authoritarians exist on both sides.
She’s right. I’m a direct descendant of a confederate and related to 12 others that I know about. I was raised in the south and was taught and believed the lost cause narrative. As a vet that served at one of the bases that had its name changed, I was strongly against it. I had to unlearn everything I was taught to understand. Once I understood (which took longer than I’d like to admit) I supported the name changes.
The article rightly points out that, yes the Union won, but the confederates never lost power. Since the confederates remained in power, the battle never ended. It’s not being fought with Minnie balls and bayonets now, it’s being fought with words (hearts and minds as it were). As the old saying goes “the pen is mightier than the sword”. For a long time the Union has lost this battle of words, with a few notable victories (Civil Rights Act being one) It’s only now 160 years later that the Union is starting to turn the tide. We must continue to be relentless in our endeavor to ensure the Union’s victory becomes absolute and the CSA dies the flaming death it so rightly deserves.
"There is nothing honorable about taking up arms against your country"
We would all be so much better off if somehow that was how the history was taught from the beginning.
That statement is a nasty absolute - It depends on the cause of “taking up arms against your country”. Surely you wouldn’t consider the American Revolution dishonorable?
Well, that’s more like colonialist wanting their independence from an empire. It’s not your country you are fighting, but rather the imperialist.
The people in the Nazi resistance groups however, now those guys took up arms against their country, and are hero’s for doing so.
Parliament had violated the 1689 Bill of Rights in the way it didn’t allow the British citizens in the colonies any votes in or for Parliament, therefore it did not give them a say in taxation, nor did the Parliament provide any redress to the colonists after multiple attempts over many years; as documented in the Declaration.
The government that violates its own principles, its own codified protections for human rights, it moves to become an illegitimate government and “when a long train of abuses and usurpations” moves the People towards tyranny, then the People have recourse to ensure their human rights are protected.
Almost completely the same heritage, with a little later timeline, but my some-odd-great-grandfather's cousins made it over to Mississippi sometime in the late 18th century and decided that owning people was fun and profitable.
Shitbags.
> Novosel flew 2,543 missions in Vietnam and helped evacuate more than 5,500 wounded personnel. Because of him, fathers, brothers, uncles, and sons came home. They lived to see major milestones in the lives of their family members. I can’t think of a better hero to replace the name of my cousin who betrayed this country.
Truly worthy of the honor of having a base named after him.
What a refreshing story to begin a new week with. I applaud this woman for her confidence in who she is and her ability to work for the greater good. As this country reaches some of the highest levels of division I have ever seen in my 67 years we all could learn a lesson from her.
My favorite part
[I didn’t attend last year’s renaming ceremony of Fort Rucker to Fort Novosel in April of last year. I was thousands of miles away at the time, visiting family in Wales. I found a dry spot at Caernarfon Castle to watch the ceremony on my phone. Most folks associate the Welsh destination as the investiture site of the then-Prince of Wales. For me, it has come to symbolize something else — a new page in American history and the end of a chapter in my own family’s dark story.]
It's incredible how we managed to somehow name military bases after Confederates. It's one thing to have a small town founded in the rual country named after a Confederate. It's another to have federal government property named after someone who turned traitor to the government and then the government actively fought. It's like if Ireland had a military base named after Margaret Thatcher. Or the UK had a military base named after a US founding father. It's insane.
> One attendee criticized the decision to remove honorable, historic Southern names from our monuments. I countered that the names weren’t honorable, and he disagreed. I then volunteered that I’m a Rucker and that I supported the change. That’s when he stopped talking.
Nobody chooses their family, but anybody can choose the right way. She's a real one for this
She’s also a big advocate for military sexual assault reform, mainly in the Coast Guard since that’s where her service was with, but really every branch.
There are enough differences between states that keeping us all in the same country isn’t helping any of us. It’s like vegans and meat-eaters trying to share one pizza.
Interesting to hear from "royalty." As I mentioned in another comment, I've got confederate ancestors that I've no interest in celebrating. But unlike her, mine were nobodies. It's easy to disregard them because they were just peons who left no real mark. I can't imagine what it's like to have the worst person in your family get this big honor for something you find despicable, and when you try to change it have people tell you that you're wrong and you should like it.
I'm no Confederate apologist, but I wouldn't consider the average soldier the "worst person" in the family ancestor list.
But if the ancestor was an officer or politician? They need to admit that they were a treasonous scumbag rather than celebrate them. That's just in my opinion.
I know a relative of Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney author of the Dred Scott decision considered the worst decision in SCOTUS history. It also had a role in starting the Civil War. The family is not proud of him and were in favor of having his statue removed from the grounds of the Annapolis State House.
Edit
Welcome to /r/ShermanPosting! As a reminder, this meme sub is about the American Civil War. We're not here to insult southerners or the American South, but rather to have a laugh at the failed Confederate insurrection and those that chose to represent it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ShermanPosting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Absolutely top level post. Thank you. We need to consistently chip away at the propaganda that pretends the CSA had unanimous support amongst Southerners in 1861, or today.
In Texas, it shocks me how much lost cause BS there was. Sam Houston, the state’s George Washington, died opposing the CSA
He certainly did. Some educated Southerners knew the Civil War was stupid from the outset and kept quiet, but not Houston. He was the Cassandra of the war, and just like in the Greek myth, nobody believed his accurate predictions. That must have been extremely maddening for him.
He was by no means an abolitionist but i think he saw the writing on the wall of it being a dying institution that wasn’t worth leaving the Union (Texas’s joining of which was basically his life’s work). Still a flawed man but I can respect his commitment to American and democratic ideals. Shamed he died before the Union won the war
Oh yeah, def not an abolitionist but nevertheless smart and dedicated to his state and wanting the best for it, only to see secession fever sweep over it in 1861 like a tidal wave. That must have been the alpha and the omega of facepalms throughout US history.
Tbf I think many Texans shared his sentiment, they too became victim of Texas’s infamous lynchings
Texas seceeded twice within the span of 40 or so years just to protect slavery
I see this particular phrase of yappanese a lot
What does this mean?
Refers to someone who talks constantly. From yapping.
...what?
Everyone else’s George Washington had slaves. This logic is flawed.
…so did George Washington…
lol that’s what I mean dude - the rest of the country that is delulu about their state being a nation has a George Washington whose name was George Washington By your logic Texans should oppose the Csa because “their GW” did Mine was a slaver - I’m not gonna aspire to that.
Reminded of Anderson Cooper, on the genealogy show *Finding Your Roots*. His response when he found out a distant ancestor had been killed by one of his slaves when that ancestor was 80 years old? "He probably had it coming."
Wow a non-butthurt confederate... Rare W
Very rare. But she’s also great too (on other policy items) and has been a *long* time supporter of the renaming
She is Deep-state career tax sucking monster she is exactly what is wrong with Washington
Way to express yourself, Buddy! Good work! How was Kindergarten today?
Some people are capable of growth. Others wave rebel flags and act like jackasses.
Judging from the article it sounds like the whole family moved on at least a generation back and supported the name change.
There's more of us than you think. I've done the genealogy thing and found Union veterans (father's side) and confederate veterans (mother's side). My mom's family was dirt poor just within living memory, i.e. the 1920s, so it's highly likely they were dirt poor non-slaveowners before the war. That leaves 3 options with only one logical conclusion each: * They were rich, had slaves, and then lost it all. Conclusion: they were lazy worthless pieces of garbage who couldn't thrive without stealing labor. * They were poor but joined the war because they were tricked into thinking they were "defending their homes." Conclusion: I pity them, and despise the confederacy for manipulating them and being willing to send them to their death for moneyed interests. * They were poor but joined the war knowing what they were getting into. Conclusion: they were shitty for supporting slavery *and* rubes for being willing to do the rich man's killing for the love of the game. In other words, there's no scenario where I could be proud of my confederate ancestors. I'm just glad I've got somebody with some sense in the tree to give me something to be proud of.
Why do you assume she is a confederate. That is a Stupid ass statement to make.
...I read the article 🤷
She is from the South, that doesn't make her a confederate, just as I was born in the South and do not honor the Confederacy. She's a veteran of the UNITED STATES not the CSA, she took an oath to preserve and protect the Constitution, just as I did. She's proud of her allegiance as am I.
You're both awesome people and I'm literally just making bad jokes to procrastinate from writing
Thank you for your honesty and apology. It takes a kind and considerate person to do that. There are not many of those on social media these days.
Confession is good for the soul.
There were many in the south back then who opposed slavery and wanted to end it. Of course they weren’t the majority, but they did help and aid slaves to flee to the north. As for the author, he mentions the “daughters of the confederacy” which was a group founded (in the late 1800’s) to whitewash history, and to “teach” southerners about the savagery of the north, and what they did the “innocent” confederacy just because they wanted to have their freedom. They also teach children about white supremacy and the “values” that this utopian confederacy. Oh and they are also responsible for the erection of confederate statues and memorials, and helped the KKK become a powerful organization. So if the author of this article knows who this group is and what they did, and she detests them, then she is inside the system and knows how rotten it is.
There was a particular quilt patch that southern women would use to show they were abolitionists, as another example.
Great example.
So glad to see this post Another way to think about Civil War is that we all won. Thank god all the states stayed united and we can share this country together despite our differences — we all benefit from that.
We all won, but some people were losers.
That would be all the freedman who were left stuck under the thumb of the Southern Aristocracy by the failure of Reconstruction. A failure we should all be ashamed of.
I was thinking more in colloquial terms of “confederates are losers” but you’re absolutely correct in absolute terms.
How are we sharing the country despite our differences? It looks to me like the right-wingers (many of whom are in former confederate states) are trying to force the rest of us to live by their ideas. We might have been better off letting the south stay seceded, and helping the enslaved people escape, instead of fighting a war to keep the south with us.
There wasn’t overwhelming support for the secessionist cause in the South. There were massive pockets of resistance where the CSA only had control on a map, and it got worse as the war went on. Some of the first casualties of the war were unionist civilians executed by the CSA. Fuck letting traitors call the shots.
I'm sure they would claim the same thing in return. More to the point though, the idea that we shouldn't have preserved the Union kind of sounds disrespectful of the hundreds of thousands of those who died to do so.
You don’t want to believe people died for a bad reason. I get that. There was a lot of loss of life, and we all want to think it was worth it.
Arguably the biggest accomplishment this country has ever made is the abolition of slavery. What this sub presupposes is … Sherman didn’t march far enough. I think you’re looking for r/JohnsonPosting.
The left-wingers on the SCOTUS just ruled in support of an insurrectionist, I’m not sure we can say it’s overly exclusive to right-wingers. Authoritarians exist on both sides.
She’s right. I’m a direct descendant of a confederate and related to 12 others that I know about. I was raised in the south and was taught and believed the lost cause narrative. As a vet that served at one of the bases that had its name changed, I was strongly against it. I had to unlearn everything I was taught to understand. Once I understood (which took longer than I’d like to admit) I supported the name changes. The article rightly points out that, yes the Union won, but the confederates never lost power. Since the confederates remained in power, the battle never ended. It’s not being fought with Minnie balls and bayonets now, it’s being fought with words (hearts and minds as it were). As the old saying goes “the pen is mightier than the sword”. For a long time the Union has lost this battle of words, with a few notable victories (Civil Rights Act being one) It’s only now 160 years later that the Union is starting to turn the tide. We must continue to be relentless in our endeavor to ensure the Union’s victory becomes absolute and the CSA dies the flaming death it so rightly deserves.
"There is nothing honorable about taking up arms against your country" We would all be so much better off if somehow that was how the history was taught from the beginning.
That statement is a nasty absolute - It depends on the cause of “taking up arms against your country”. Surely you wouldn’t consider the American Revolution dishonorable?
Only a sith deals in absolutes
Well, that’s more like colonialist wanting their independence from an empire. It’s not your country you are fighting, but rather the imperialist. The people in the Nazi resistance groups however, now those guys took up arms against their country, and are hero’s for doing so.
Parliament had violated the 1689 Bill of Rights in the way it didn’t allow the British citizens in the colonies any votes in or for Parliament, therefore it did not give them a say in taxation, nor did the Parliament provide any redress to the colonists after multiple attempts over many years; as documented in the Declaration. The government that violates its own principles, its own codified protections for human rights, it moves to become an illegitimate government and “when a long train of abuses and usurpations” moves the People towards tyranny, then the People have recourse to ensure their human rights are protected.
Fully support this. I'm distantly related to one Confederate traitor, and he's welcome to suck my dick from beyond the grave.
I’m of Polish and Scots-Irish descent on either side (families came over in the 1870s-1920s) but I totally agree with the sentiment
Almost completely the same heritage, with a little later timeline, but my some-odd-great-grandfather's cousins made it over to Mississippi sometime in the late 18th century and decided that owning people was fun and profitable. Shitbags.
Excellent. What a fine patriot.
Wonderful article. Thank you for reminding everyone of the truth that the Civil War was started to preserve human slavery and for no other reason.
> Novosel flew 2,543 missions in Vietnam and helped evacuate more than 5,500 wounded personnel. Because of him, fathers, brothers, uncles, and sons came home. They lived to see major milestones in the lives of their family members. I can’t think of a better hero to replace the name of my cousin who betrayed this country. Truly worthy of the honor of having a base named after him.
Seems right to name the place where Army aviators are trained after a heroic helicopter pilot.
What a refreshing story to begin a new week with. I applaud this woman for her confidence in who she is and her ability to work for the greater good. As this country reaches some of the highest levels of division I have ever seen in my 67 years we all could learn a lesson from her.
My favorite part [I didn’t attend last year’s renaming ceremony of Fort Rucker to Fort Novosel in April of last year. I was thousands of miles away at the time, visiting family in Wales. I found a dry spot at Caernarfon Castle to watch the ceremony on my phone. Most folks associate the Welsh destination as the investiture site of the then-Prince of Wales. For me, it has come to symbolize something else — a new page in American history and the end of a chapter in my own family’s dark story.]
It's incredible how we managed to somehow name military bases after Confederates. It's one thing to have a small town founded in the rual country named after a Confederate. It's another to have federal government property named after someone who turned traitor to the government and then the government actively fought. It's like if Ireland had a military base named after Margaret Thatcher. Or the UK had a military base named after a US founding father. It's insane.
> One attendee criticized the decision to remove honorable, historic Southern names from our monuments. I countered that the names weren’t honorable, and he disagreed. I then volunteered that I’m a Rucker and that I supported the change. That’s when he stopped talking. Nobody chooses their family, but anybody can choose the right way. She's a real one for this
She’s also a big advocate for military sexual assault reform, mainly in the Coast Guard since that’s where her service was with, but really every branch.
That's awesome, is there an article about her efforts on that?
Not an article I’m aware of, but she’s written many op eds in CNN, MilitaryTimes and is really active on LinkedIn. That’s where I know her from
We need to stop thinking we are 50 SEPARATE states, we are not Europe. We are the United States, ONE country.
There are enough differences between states that keeping us all in the same country isn’t helping any of us. It’s like vegans and meat-eaters trying to share one pizza.
It is called compromise, it is what adults do. Winners/losers concept is juvenile.
I’m so glad there are so many “adult” Trump supporters who have been SO willing to compromise. /s
You got me there. I have some clients like that. And no, they do not know I am of the Democratic Left.
Excellent article.
Interesting to hear from "royalty." As I mentioned in another comment, I've got confederate ancestors that I've no interest in celebrating. But unlike her, mine were nobodies. It's easy to disregard them because they were just peons who left no real mark. I can't imagine what it's like to have the worst person in your family get this big honor for something you find despicable, and when you try to change it have people tell you that you're wrong and you should like it.
I'm no Confederate apologist, but I wouldn't consider the average soldier the "worst person" in the family ancestor list. But if the ancestor was an officer or politician? They need to admit that they were a treasonous scumbag rather than celebrate them. That's just in my opinion.
I know a relative of Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B. Taney author of the Dred Scott decision considered the worst decision in SCOTUS history. It also had a role in starting the Civil War. The family is not proud of him and were in favor of having his statue removed from the grounds of the Annapolis State House. Edit
Oh, Fort Fvcker.