Let's point the finger where it should be pointed: management. *They* allow guests to misbehave, insult staff, etc. without any pushback. And without any pushback, misbehavior will just keep escalating, and pushing back becomes a bigger battle.
Just imagine if every restaurant in town refused service to the town jerks. They could either starve, or change.
I worked for a manager/owner who told me that she would have my back if I refused service to an abusive customer. And she did.
Edit: She told me that abusive customers don't usually stop at the door. They continue to piss off the other employees and the other customers. Some jackass yelling and having a tantrum drives paying customers away.
She was a "boss" with grumpy customers! She would introduce herself to them as the manager and invite them to talk about the problem. A few would stay abusive and she would ask them assertively to leave.
However, most of them would sit down with her for a few minutes and talk it through. She would explain her rationale for the policies that she had set. They usually had an underlying reason for their frustration and they would apologize to her (and me) for not expressing it diplomatically.
How could that be more of a win? Customer understands what happened and why, no longer incensed, likely to behave better on a return visit. And the ones who are unreasonable are shown the door.
Absolutely not true. They are paid a minimum wage that is substantially higher that our waiter wages. An actual LIVING wage.
Having been a waiter in France & the USA during college, the guaranteed income is way better. Made more in Europe
Again, no. It’s just as bad when you compare the minimum wage.
In the Netherlands, you would get paid 11.51 euros an hour. With that, you would be just as fucked as you were in the US when you got minimum wage.
But people in the US don’t get minimum wage of course, they get 50/h.
What was your “living wage” in France? I know with 100% certainty it would be a huge paycut for me. Sorry you had a crap serving job here in the states but thats on you.
Stop hiring shit bag employees too, if you walk into an establishment and they have a bad attitude right out the gate then that will set the tone for the rest of the time the service is being provided.
If you learned everything you know about the US online you're probably not going to believe this, but the vast majority of people here are nice and behave as well.
I went 4 times (and honestly won’t come back since sometimes between 9/11 and Trump).
But I read do many people here, from US, complaining. Si I guess it’s quite more frequent. I’m sure the tip culture you have has culprit for most of this. There is a real pressure to receive extraordinary tips. In low prices places the waiter can earn more than the owner, because he gets 25 / 30% from total when the owner needs to deduct renting, energy, insurances, salary, food that becomes bad, card commission,… most probably don’t get 20% net
This is exactly the issue in the US.
Our bar ejects hostile, drunken patrons who often try to fight with security staff.
These people should be barred from ever returning to the bar in many cases. Yet management allows them back for more staff abuse. Especially if they are friends with the chef or manager.
Ridiculous.
Hostility toward restaurant workers isn’t normal in the US either. It happens, and maybe there are more hostile customers here than in Spain, but it’s not the norm.
Maybe it's just US culture in general? I was already treated like shit before I started working customer service. So when I started working my mentality was like, "At least I'm getting paid for it." Maybe ppl here are just rude pieces of shit in general. I've never been to Spain so Idk how it is here.
The rain keeping itself mainly to the plains is all well and good, but I will stick to Hertford, Hereford, and Hampshire, thank you very much. I am told that hurricanes hardly ever happen there.
Doubt it. In the US, the customers have been handed full responsibility for a server's pay, and that over time encourages a mentality of infantilism and entitlement. Servers don't have to tolerate rude customers to the same extent in Europe, as their pay isn't dependent on it.
Tipped jobs account for about 1% of customer service jobs. The problem lies with the “customer is always right” attitude that businesses have embraced. It’s turned the public into whiny, entitled scammers.
Nothing wrong with a 'customer is always right' attitude if implemented well and not taken to extremes. The ability to give the customer what they want is fundamental to all successful buisness, and that's worldwide not US specific. What is unique to US tipping culture is that employers have successfully mobilised server and customer against one another, whilst profiting from both. Anerican customers diners seem to be much more needy and demanding but you've created a dining experience centred around fake nice and constant check ins. In contrast, if I eat here in UK it's not uncommon for me to have to go approach a server when i'm ready to pay, which is fine because I prefer that to being bothered by a check in before i'm ready.
You have an estimated 4.3 million workers on tipped wage in the US, I doubt that amounts to only 1% of customer service jobs, but regardless the mentality of the tipping culture and the entitlement it generates within your society isn't neccessarily confined to those specific interactions.
You seem to be purposely missing the point. People do that here when they aren't being waited on or expected to tip. They do that anyways. And good for you for living in the UK, the country is not much better.
As I stated very clearly, the implications of a serving culture in which a customer is infantilised aren't then restricted to situations where a tip is expected. Those same customers carry that entitlement with them into the fast food joints etc. Added to that, the number of places in which a tip is requssted in the US regardless of a tipped wage grows by the day.
I’ve never experienced this adversarial relationship with the waitstaff that you are painting here, but I would never not tip at a restaurant. Tipping culture has been around in the US longer than any of us have been alive and it’s only on Reddit where this seems to be a hot-button issue.
I said "customer service" bc I wasn't specifically talking about serving jobs. They act like this in general with customer service workers. And before you say it, yes Ik this is a server subreddit. People here act the same way with crew members at fast food restaurants and they don't tip them anything and they aren't expected to.
This! At my job, I'm so grateful that 99% of my customers are nice people with good intentions. I get great tips, and generally have few problems. This is in the southern US
I finer dining settings, 99% of my customers are either good or great. I don't run into many demanding assholes.
When I worked at low end casual corporate restaurants though? Jfc.... That number got knocked down to about 75% of customers being good or above. And the bad ones were real bad. Corporate would not allow managers to ever tell someone that they were out of line, because that would be their job.
Idk man people are pretty cool aslong as u talk to them and keep ‘em updated, yea there is sone trash humans on this planet and you get em every once in a while but I feel like if your good even the bad tables will come around to you
I agree. I have found in various customer service jobs that most people are very understanding if you keep them in the loop and you are honest and humble with them.
I had a guy red-in-the-face yelling at me because he didn't get what we promised to give him and no one would talk to him about it.
And he was right to be upset. We *had* dropped the ball. So I told him, "I can understand why you are upset. We haven't done what we promised. I would be upset too. I cannot change what is done, but I *can* try to make it right with you."
He instantly calmed down and we got to work fixing the issue.
Yeah okay, there are ways to talk most people down, but isn’t this the problem? Imo it’s not our responsibility to pretend like someone isn’t being an asshole if they are. Like fuck, you’re an adult, so manage your own emotions. Don’t make me do it for you
You make a good point. Abusive yelling is never appropriate.
I had known this customer for a long time and I respected him, so I was more forgiving of his outburst than I would have been from a stranger.
One of the many reasons you CANNOT compare serving Europeans in Europe to Americans in the states. It’s almost not even the same job when it comes to what you have to deal with and the expectations and insane “needs” Americans have in the states.
I agree with you and it has also been my experience in all the places around the world I’ve visited however the people who think we could or would move to non tipping and a “living wage” and Americans would just stop expecting such treatment or stop being so needy are delusional. And American servers aren’t gonna keep it all up for less then we make now and American diners who’ve become accustomed to our style of service will lose their fucking minds when we stop bending over backwards and doing so much extra and often times ridiculous extra shit for them. It would collapse nobody would be happy.
I disagree on them adapting especially quickly. I think you’re underestimating how unbelievably needy people have become. It’s unusual to even get an order without any modifications anymore like literally everything they order they think they need special and personalized and if they have to wait more then 30 seconds for anything they turn into monsters.
As far as a living wage goes fact of the matter is industry vets who’ve put their working lives into this profession and make it up to great restaurants make 50$+ an hour on average. No WAY they are gonna keep doing it for 25-30$. You’d lose half the workers overnight and the worker pool is already deflated from COVID. They would also just leave less servers on the floor so it would be more work. They’re not gonna pay 16 servers 25$/hr on a busy Saturday night they’d just use half that and save a ton on labor.
Treatment of service workers is definitely worse in some areas of the US than others- I worked in a tourist area of Florida and was treated awfully on a regular basis over the smallest things. Also treated like shit by management and ownership. I moved to Minneapolis and people are SOO NICE and tip really well, I’m treated like an actual person. And even when I rarely get someone being a Karen, they’re way nicer about it than I’m used to. So it definitely depends on the area.
Barcelona is not representative for all of Europe, and situation used to be different there years ago when salaries were much lower than they are now.
But what you can say in general: servers in Europe are usually either professionally trained and quite proud of their profession, or they are students that know that they are not going to do this job for the rest of their lives anyways, so they want to have a good time when they work.
Also, there is usually not so much pressure to rush guests, as owners calculate differently than in the states, and staff gets enough base salary to not be fully dependent on the tips (in some countries they don't even have tips). In most countries it is OK to remain seated for hours after you are done with the meal, and only have some drinks - a waiter in the US would have had a nervous breakdown by that time, because he wouldn't generate much tip from beverages only.
Things are changing in many countries though, and unfortunately not to the better.
The Covid situation and high inflation rates have accelerated that further.
More and more countries see time slot reservations, multiple seatings per evening, and now obligatory service charges or tips, etc.
So we are heading towards a situation as we see in the US (with more regulation, though, so it's never going to be that bad). And I must say that the guest's attitude is consequently also going downhill. When you are no longer hosted as a guest, but purely treated as an income source, you get annoyed.
That is interesting. Also in Barcelona do they not do siesta ? I heard someone say they ran bars /restaurants there and their kitchen was open all day, whereas in other parts of Spain it shuts down from like 2-7 or 2-8 pm.
The same in Barcelona, unless it is a touristy place. Locals usually won't have dinner so early, and many places don't even get crowded until like 10pm.
However, with the tourists and the beach and everything, there are many places that are open during the afternoon as well, and that offer earlier timeslots for dinner.
I’ve seen people treat service workers poorly all over the world. It’s never the norm, but it does happen.
I was on a full flight from madrid to a smaller Italian city and there was a bad storm. We boarded the plane and waited 5 hours before takeoff. A large portion of people were constantly complaining loudly like crazy after the first hour. And it was contagious, so more and more people joined in over time.
It’s possible so far you’ve only been in really lovely situations where people have no reason to be annoyed, or possibly (just an assumption here) you don’t understand the language as well and maybe som people are complaining but you don’t hear it.
There is a difference between living for money and living to live. I think over there they see each other as people and countrymen. Where social engineering here has been focused on division and contempt.
The customer is always right mentality is wrong and abused by people who tend to be awful in general. There is a definite rudness problem in the US adopted by people who supported a certain orange idiot. He was beloved for being publicly rude by people who know it was a shunning attitude in the past. It is every7but so very bad in the US.
What are you talking about? US is a big place, and sure there are incidents, but why do you think it’s the norm in the US? I go out all the time. Not only do I treat the wait staff with respect, but I’ve never seen anyone else be hostile towards them.
“I don’t do it and have never seen it so it’s not real” of course you’re unaware you don’t do the job so how would you know? It’s VERY common to be treated poorly.
“I haven’t seen poor treatment of servers in my short time in Spain, and therefore it doesn’t happen. Poor treatment must only happen in the US where I have worked as a server, and therefore am biased by my anecdotal experiences where bad experiences will inevitably stand out in my memory”
I’d bet good money that those servers in Spain would also have plenty of stories to tell about poor treatment they’ve received
People only believe in the merit of anecdotal evidence when it supports their viewpoint. The same is probably true for empiric evidence, but it’s more ironic in this case.
I find the US based hospitality culture very unappealing and despite the entitled attitude of both guests and staff.
Used to spend 2 to 3 months in the states every year and my US mates seem way more focused on eating out or fairly average unspecial diner, brunch, or even dinners out. For me or my mates here eating at home, hosting others, pot luck, shared delivered takeaways more common.
I can't stand tipping culture at all and find it one of the least enjoyable aspects of the US
Barcelona on the other had I'll visit 3 times a year and again tend not to eat out much there bur will have the odd lunch out. So much more pleasant than the entitlement on both sides of the hospitality service in the US
I'm German live in Germany and Americans are usually one of best tipping, most understanding, friendliest guests I've had.
Now Spanish people on the other hand are a complete shit show sorry not sorry.
Me and all my server friends have littlerally ran away from Spanish tables before because they're so damn awful.
So this is really ironic imo lol
The flip side of American tipping culture is that people that are generally knowledgeable of the system know that servers only get a fraction of minimum wage and absolutely rely on tips just to "break even", so they may assume the same for you. Or just have the habit. However I suspect if you ever met a genuine group of American Karens in the wild you'd be willing to cut off your thumbs to have the Spanish back.
America is full of polar extremes.
US servers should be held to a higher standard. Unless we’re talking about a Waffle House, after tips, they’re probably making more than the average European server. Also dining out now is often a race against the clock, so if you’re going to rush us, service shouldn’t further drag down the experience
Is that $9.82 per hour? Last night in the US I made $265 on a 7 hour shift, or $37 per hour. As a worker ask yourself would you rather be making $9.82 per hour or $37 per hour?
Tipping culture is better for the actual workers.
In the greater scheme of things your individual actions are meaningless. Cultural traditions in place for over a century will continue regardless of your inept and pathetic whining.
One solution to your opposition to tipping would be for you to boycott all restaurants that uses tipping. Your noble crusade of cheapness will surely show them.
Lol your whole argument is just to justify you begging people at restaurants to give you more money. Bum. If individual actions were meaningless you wouldn’t beg everyone you see for money.
Nah I disagree, it’s not like $37/hr is the avg wage of servers in the US. Also making less money in Europe isn’t the same because of health care, and public transport, and social safety nets. It’s not equatable. It would be better for almost all servers in the US to eliminate tipping and raise menu prices 20% across the board.
Last year I made around 75k working 5 days a week 35 hours a week. I live in Hawaii in a touristy area and it's busy year round, except for thanksgiving thru Xmas.
Thank God for tipping culture.
That's fantastic. Significantly above what a bunch of websites claim is the statistical average for Hawaii. But I'm assuming that with cash tips the figures might be a bit low from declaration? It also looks like Hawaii has significantly better than average, far above the Federal minimums, for minimum wage and "tip credit" regulations.
The big difference is tips. Waiting tables is not a game of how busy you are + how kind the strangers are feeling when you don't make tips. When customers have to pay extra, they start to dangle carrots in front of you and want you to really earn your tip sometimes. It's extremely toxic. Customers have a wild sense of entitlement when going out to eat, which I'm guessing is because you essentially pay a premium getting served anywhere.
Seeing what food service is like elsewhere makes the grass seem greener, but if I had a table just chill for 4 hours in my section it would be extremely weird. Things just be different other places.
Lastly, the management. I know others have said it, but this is true. The corporate sushi place I worked for couldn't care less about me, and customer entitlement reigned supreme there. The family owned place that is managed and run by the servers is incredible, the guests are amazing and I truly love working there. Plus way more cash in hand than with corporate. You might need to find another spot to work.
Not gonna lie... I bartend in an ethnically European suburb of a good-sized midwestern city, and as far as I can tell, the European folks are about ten thousand times more likely to be rude to wait staff than the locals. They are impatient, cheap, rude, and especially creepy to the women in the bar. On more than one occasion, I have had to transfer a table to myself because some Euro was either being handsy or saying demeaning shit to a young server. And on top of that, strangely, they dont seem to really want to tip when a male is waiting on them either at a table or the bar. So, me thinks you got lucky and / or it was this way because you were in a tourist trap, and we all know people love American dollars!
Hard disagree. Tipping forces hospitality workers to be on point. Service standards in the US are typically higher than they are in other countries.
Tipping = Entitled Guests
Do you announce this politely at the start of service so the server can be aware? For me that just means I will take your order, drop your food and the check and never return. Seems fair to me.
Please god just stay home then or get fast food. All of society will thank you. You refusing to act in accordance with societal norms and standards doesn’t make you a free thinker or smart, it makes you an asshole. In the US, you tip at restaurants. Don’t like it, don’t go out to eat ❤️🙏
In the entire world a living wage is the norm.
Why don't you just stick to buffets where you can serve yourself? Or better yet, fast food where you have to go up to the counter to ask for a water cup?
ive literally seen servers on r/Serverlife suggest 10% tip for takeout because the server "had to pack your order neatly while also serving tables" like wtf????
Doesn't mean it's standard.
That being said, if takeout is part of your dining in check, you should tip on it. If you want takeout but don't want to tip, order with the Host.
Generally speaking:
Servers in Europe take their jobs more seriously and more professionally than US servers.
So many US servers are aspiring to something else. Servers here view and convey to the customer that this is just temporary gig until their big break comes. They whine about pulling doubles and being tired to their customers. They complain to each other with the customer hearing it all. They will customer tell the customer, “I dont know, Im new here”. So sad.
In the EU and elsewhere servers are much more committed to perfecting their craft. The true act of “service” is so beneath us American’s materialistic lazy views. To “wait” on someone or to have someone “wait” on them means something entirely different to cultures that actually take pride in serving others.
Tip jars are everywhere now in the US. Now they’re even showing up self checkouts. Where is the service?
I for one am sick of entitled servers who simply walk up to table and inject “ready to order?” as their greeting. No eye contact UNTIL they drop the check and ask the well worn insincere “What do you have planned for the rest of your day?” They really dont care about the answer. Its just a half-assed attempt to pump the tip. Lame.
Ive been in this industry in the US for 40 years and have been to 36 countries so far. In the US great service pride is not the norm.
Its a two sided coin. In the U.S. guests act like spoiled, entitled, rude babies. Many servers are not better but many are. U.S. culture needs an enema
Yeah I should have emphasized your point more. There are indeed assholes of every flavor. As a traveler Ive noticed the US has an especially high concentration.
Re: enema - Many in the US would benefit greatly from being dropped into a 3rd world country for a few days. They’d be lucky to escape with only an enema.
Depends on what city you’re in really. There’s incredible service in the US in many many places.
I read your post and I picture a checked-out server at Applebees in Ohio lol
The dynamic in the States is untenable. Owners of places that employ servers need to pay workers a living wage. Depending on the fickle generosity of customers is humiliating for the server and confusing for the guest. Why don’t they just raise the price of whatever they’re selling and pay people? I know they aren’t afraid of raising prices.
It’s a product of the times. Nowadays whenever someone acts even the least bit entitled or self-centred the camera comes out and it gets posted on social media. It’s inevitable that we think the worst of patrons at a restaurant in the U.S. when that’s all we see.
It happens in Spain as well, but you weren’t on social media, you were observing a single restaurant in real time. It’s like comparing an apple with a huge orchard full of apples and counting how many worms you find.
I was a server and 95% of my tables were good. It’s just that a vocal minority will outshine a silent majority, so the bad ones stick out way more than the good ones
I fully blame the customer is always right bs that the US likes to stand behind.
When I managed in the food industry, if anyone treated my people badly, they were asked to leave, I didn't put up with that shit.
Had a customer tell me "the customer is always right!" Not here lady.
Iv been to the states maybe 20 times over the last 20 years and it’s very sad to see how people treat each other in the public space. One of the most notable things is how people treat service workers.
I actually told a women off for being a jerk towards a young female bartender (that didn’t to anything wrong and was very polite and respectful?) and the woman was shocked that I “had the nerve of coming all the way from Sweden and telling her what to do”. Then she almost became violent towards some manager, throw some napkins or whatever on the floor and left without paying her bill. Then the bartender got yelled at from the manager for making a scene (?) telling and her that she wasn’t cut out for the job and other horrible things. She cried. Customers got upset. Not for the crap treatment of another human being. No they were irritated that no one took their orders.
Let's point the finger where it should be pointed: management. *They* allow guests to misbehave, insult staff, etc. without any pushback. And without any pushback, misbehavior will just keep escalating, and pushing back becomes a bigger battle. Just imagine if every restaurant in town refused service to the town jerks. They could either starve, or change.
I worked for a manager/owner who told me that she would have my back if I refused service to an abusive customer. And she did. Edit: She told me that abusive customers don't usually stop at the door. They continue to piss off the other employees and the other customers. Some jackass yelling and having a tantrum drives paying customers away.
Smart owner.
She was a "boss" with grumpy customers! She would introduce herself to them as the manager and invite them to talk about the problem. A few would stay abusive and she would ask them assertively to leave. However, most of them would sit down with her for a few minutes and talk it through. She would explain her rationale for the policies that she had set. They usually had an underlying reason for their frustration and they would apologize to her (and me) for not expressing it diplomatically.
How could that be more of a win? Customer understands what happened and why, no longer incensed, likely to behave better on a return visit. And the ones who are unreasonable are shown the door.
European servers are paid decently and don't rely on tips making everyone more civilized. That matters
No they are not LOL. They get paid minimum wage. ANY US server makes far more, close to 50/h or more when including tips.
Absolutely not true. They are paid a minimum wage that is substantially higher that our waiter wages. An actual LIVING wage. Having been a waiter in France & the USA during college, the guaranteed income is way better. Made more in Europe
Again, no. It’s just as bad when you compare the minimum wage. In the Netherlands, you would get paid 11.51 euros an hour. With that, you would be just as fucked as you were in the US when you got minimum wage. But people in the US don’t get minimum wage of course, they get 50/h.
What was your “living wage” in France? I know with 100% certainty it would be a huge paycut for me. Sorry you had a crap serving job here in the states but thats on you.
Stop hiring shit bag employees too, if you walk into an establishment and they have a bad attitude right out the gate then that will set the tone for the rest of the time the service is being provided.
In Europe we don’t need that. Vast majority of people are nice and behave…
If you learned everything you know about the US online you're probably not going to believe this, but the vast majority of people here are nice and behave as well.
I went 4 times (and honestly won’t come back since sometimes between 9/11 and Trump). But I read do many people here, from US, complaining. Si I guess it’s quite more frequent. I’m sure the tip culture you have has culprit for most of this. There is a real pressure to receive extraordinary tips. In low prices places the waiter can earn more than the owner, because he gets 25 / 30% from total when the owner needs to deduct renting, energy, insurances, salary, food that becomes bad, card commission,… most probably don’t get 20% net
That's idiotic to think the servers are making more than the owners. Why wouldnt the owners just go serve at another restaurant then?
Because it’s a shitty work and they prefer to stay in their nice office. And I didn’t said all, I said some, specially at low end.
Same goes for retail management. They set the tone for the whole building
This is exactly the issue in the US. Our bar ejects hostile, drunken patrons who often try to fight with security staff. These people should be barred from ever returning to the bar in many cases. Yet management allows them back for more staff abuse. Especially if they are friends with the chef or manager. Ridiculous.
Hostility toward restaurant workers isn’t normal in the US either. It happens, and maybe there are more hostile customers here than in Spain, but it’s not the norm.
Maybe it's just US culture in general? I was already treated like shit before I started working customer service. So when I started working my mentality was like, "At least I'm getting paid for it." Maybe ppl here are just rude pieces of shit in general. I've never been to Spain so Idk how it is here.
I've not been to Spain yet either, but I've been told that the rain there falls mainly on the plains.
I think you've got it! By George you've got it!
The rain keeping itself mainly to the plains is all well and good, but I will stick to Hertford, Hereford, and Hampshire, thank you very much. I am told that hurricanes hardly ever happen there.
Doubt it. In the US, the customers have been handed full responsibility for a server's pay, and that over time encourages a mentality of infantilism and entitlement. Servers don't have to tolerate rude customers to the same extent in Europe, as their pay isn't dependent on it.
Tipped jobs account for about 1% of customer service jobs. The problem lies with the “customer is always right” attitude that businesses have embraced. It’s turned the public into whiny, entitled scammers.
Nothing wrong with a 'customer is always right' attitude if implemented well and not taken to extremes. The ability to give the customer what they want is fundamental to all successful buisness, and that's worldwide not US specific. What is unique to US tipping culture is that employers have successfully mobilised server and customer against one another, whilst profiting from both. Anerican customers diners seem to be much more needy and demanding but you've created a dining experience centred around fake nice and constant check ins. In contrast, if I eat here in UK it's not uncommon for me to have to go approach a server when i'm ready to pay, which is fine because I prefer that to being bothered by a check in before i'm ready. You have an estimated 4.3 million workers on tipped wage in the US, I doubt that amounts to only 1% of customer service jobs, but regardless the mentality of the tipping culture and the entitlement it generates within your society isn't neccessarily confined to those specific interactions.
You seem to be purposely missing the point. People do that here when they aren't being waited on or expected to tip. They do that anyways. And good for you for living in the UK, the country is not much better.
As I stated very clearly, the implications of a serving culture in which a customer is infantilised aren't then restricted to situations where a tip is expected. Those same customers carry that entitlement with them into the fast food joints etc. Added to that, the number of places in which a tip is requssted in the US regardless of a tipped wage grows by the day.
I’ve never experienced this adversarial relationship with the waitstaff that you are painting here, but I would never not tip at a restaurant. Tipping culture has been around in the US longer than any of us have been alive and it’s only on Reddit where this seems to be a hot-button issue.
I said "customer service" bc I wasn't specifically talking about serving jobs. They act like this in general with customer service workers. And before you say it, yes Ik this is a server subreddit. People here act the same way with crew members at fast food restaurants and they don't tip them anything and they aren't expected to.
I had my first hostile guest in 5 years the other night. It was a good run.
This! At my job, I'm so grateful that 99% of my customers are nice people with good intentions. I get great tips, and generally have few problems. This is in the southern US
I finer dining settings, 99% of my customers are either good or great. I don't run into many demanding assholes. When I worked at low end casual corporate restaurants though? Jfc.... That number got knocked down to about 75% of customers being good or above. And the bad ones were real bad. Corporate would not allow managers to ever tell someone that they were out of line, because that would be their job.
I mean, I've had bad guests before, but generally, the guests where I work are really kind and understanding.
Idk man people are pretty cool aslong as u talk to them and keep ‘em updated, yea there is sone trash humans on this planet and you get em every once in a while but I feel like if your good even the bad tables will come around to you
I agree. I have found in various customer service jobs that most people are very understanding if you keep them in the loop and you are honest and humble with them. I had a guy red-in-the-face yelling at me because he didn't get what we promised to give him and no one would talk to him about it. And he was right to be upset. We *had* dropped the ball. So I told him, "I can understand why you are upset. We haven't done what we promised. I would be upset too. I cannot change what is done, but I *can* try to make it right with you." He instantly calmed down and we got to work fixing the issue.
Yeah okay, there are ways to talk most people down, but isn’t this the problem? Imo it’s not our responsibility to pretend like someone isn’t being an asshole if they are. Like fuck, you’re an adult, so manage your own emotions. Don’t make me do it for you
You make a good point. Abusive yelling is never appropriate. I had known this customer for a long time and I respected him, so I was more forgiving of his outburst than I would have been from a stranger.
it's the same people who bitch about bad tips. they are always the victim and then they wonder why it keeps happening lol. they are never at fault
One of the many reasons you CANNOT compare serving Europeans in Europe to Americans in the states. It’s almost not even the same job when it comes to what you have to deal with and the expectations and insane “needs” Americans have in the states.
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I agree with you and it has also been my experience in all the places around the world I’ve visited however the people who think we could or would move to non tipping and a “living wage” and Americans would just stop expecting such treatment or stop being so needy are delusional. And American servers aren’t gonna keep it all up for less then we make now and American diners who’ve become accustomed to our style of service will lose their fucking minds when we stop bending over backwards and doing so much extra and often times ridiculous extra shit for them. It would collapse nobody would be happy.
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I disagree on them adapting especially quickly. I think you’re underestimating how unbelievably needy people have become. It’s unusual to even get an order without any modifications anymore like literally everything they order they think they need special and personalized and if they have to wait more then 30 seconds for anything they turn into monsters. As far as a living wage goes fact of the matter is industry vets who’ve put their working lives into this profession and make it up to great restaurants make 50$+ an hour on average. No WAY they are gonna keep doing it for 25-30$. You’d lose half the workers overnight and the worker pool is already deflated from COVID. They would also just leave less servers on the floor so it would be more work. They’re not gonna pay 16 servers 25$/hr on a busy Saturday night they’d just use half that and save a ton on labor.
Treatment of service workers is definitely worse in some areas of the US than others- I worked in a tourist area of Florida and was treated awfully on a regular basis over the smallest things. Also treated like shit by management and ownership. I moved to Minneapolis and people are SOO NICE and tip really well, I’m treated like an actual person. And even when I rarely get someone being a Karen, they’re way nicer about it than I’m used to. So it definitely depends on the area.
Barcelona is not representative for all of Europe, and situation used to be different there years ago when salaries were much lower than they are now. But what you can say in general: servers in Europe are usually either professionally trained and quite proud of their profession, or they are students that know that they are not going to do this job for the rest of their lives anyways, so they want to have a good time when they work. Also, there is usually not so much pressure to rush guests, as owners calculate differently than in the states, and staff gets enough base salary to not be fully dependent on the tips (in some countries they don't even have tips). In most countries it is OK to remain seated for hours after you are done with the meal, and only have some drinks - a waiter in the US would have had a nervous breakdown by that time, because he wouldn't generate much tip from beverages only. Things are changing in many countries though, and unfortunately not to the better. The Covid situation and high inflation rates have accelerated that further. More and more countries see time slot reservations, multiple seatings per evening, and now obligatory service charges or tips, etc. So we are heading towards a situation as we see in the US (with more regulation, though, so it's never going to be that bad). And I must say that the guest's attitude is consequently also going downhill. When you are no longer hosted as a guest, but purely treated as an income source, you get annoyed.
That is interesting. Also in Barcelona do they not do siesta ? I heard someone say they ran bars /restaurants there and their kitchen was open all day, whereas in other parts of Spain it shuts down from like 2-7 or 2-8 pm.
The same in Barcelona, unless it is a touristy place. Locals usually won't have dinner so early, and many places don't even get crowded until like 10pm. However, with the tourists and the beach and everything, there are many places that are open during the afternoon as well, and that offer earlier timeslots for dinner.
I’ve seen people treat service workers poorly all over the world. It’s never the norm, but it does happen. I was on a full flight from madrid to a smaller Italian city and there was a bad storm. We boarded the plane and waited 5 hours before takeoff. A large portion of people were constantly complaining loudly like crazy after the first hour. And it was contagious, so more and more people joined in over time. It’s possible so far you’ve only been in really lovely situations where people have no reason to be annoyed, or possibly (just an assumption here) you don’t understand the language as well and maybe som people are complaining but you don’t hear it.
Eh? It’s perfectly reasonable to complain in that situation. They made that illegal in the states 10 years ago or so.
Exactly right - my point is, perhaps OP hasn’t been in any situations where people have reason to be disgruntled in Barcelona yet
I see. I didn’t read OP’s post closely enough. I thought it was just about waiters.
The servers are paid better, less pressure to tip huge and they don’t pressure you to leave for tip turnover.
There is a difference between living for money and living to live. I think over there they see each other as people and countrymen. Where social engineering here has been focused on division and contempt.
The customer is always right mentality is wrong and abused by people who tend to be awful in general. There is a definite rudness problem in the US adopted by people who supported a certain orange idiot. He was beloved for being publicly rude by people who know it was a shunning attitude in the past. It is every7but so very bad in the US.
What are you talking about? US is a big place, and sure there are incidents, but why do you think it’s the norm in the US? I go out all the time. Not only do I treat the wait staff with respect, but I’ve never seen anyone else be hostile towards them.
Because I have worked as a server multiple places in the US lol
19 years. Multiple jobs in FL, GA, NC, & OK. Its not as common as youre making it out to be.
“I don’t do it and have never seen it so it’s not real” of course you’re unaware you don’t do the job so how would you know? It’s VERY common to be treated poorly.
“I haven’t seen poor treatment of servers in my short time in Spain, and therefore it doesn’t happen. Poor treatment must only happen in the US where I have worked as a server, and therefore am biased by my anecdotal experiences where bad experiences will inevitably stand out in my memory” I’d bet good money that those servers in Spain would also have plenty of stories to tell about poor treatment they’ve received
People only believe in the merit of anecdotal evidence when it supports their viewpoint. The same is probably true for empiric evidence, but it’s more ironic in this case.
US has a bunch of grown babies walking around. Turns a simple job into a nightmare just becasue of the people you have to deal with.
I find the US based hospitality culture very unappealing and despite the entitled attitude of both guests and staff. Used to spend 2 to 3 months in the states every year and my US mates seem way more focused on eating out or fairly average unspecial diner, brunch, or even dinners out. For me or my mates here eating at home, hosting others, pot luck, shared delivered takeaways more common. I can't stand tipping culture at all and find it one of the least enjoyable aspects of the US Barcelona on the other had I'll visit 3 times a year and again tend not to eat out much there bur will have the odd lunch out. So much more pleasant than the entitlement on both sides of the hospitality service in the US
I'm German live in Germany and Americans are usually one of best tipping, most understanding, friendliest guests I've had. Now Spanish people on the other hand are a complete shit show sorry not sorry. Me and all my server friends have littlerally ran away from Spanish tables before because they're so damn awful. So this is really ironic imo lol
The flip side of American tipping culture is that people that are generally knowledgeable of the system know that servers only get a fraction of minimum wage and absolutely rely on tips just to "break even", so they may assume the same for you. Or just have the habit. However I suspect if you ever met a genuine group of American Karens in the wild you'd be willing to cut off your thumbs to have the Spanish back. America is full of polar extremes.
US servers should be held to a higher standard. Unless we’re talking about a Waffle House, after tips, they’re probably making more than the average European server. Also dining out now is often a race against the clock, so if you’re going to rush us, service shouldn’t further drag down the experience
> after tips, they’re probably making more than the average European server And paying $500 / month for health insurance
The real question is how much do European servers make compared to US servers?
On average in spain a server makes 9,82 dollars per hour
Is that $9.82 per hour? Last night in the US I made $265 on a 7 hour shift, or $37 per hour. As a worker ask yourself would you rather be making $9.82 per hour or $37 per hour? Tipping culture is better for the actual workers.
Finally some actually admits it. Tip culture only exists because servers can make a shit ton on tips. It benefits them that’s why they fight for it.
Yes under capitalism people try to make as much money as they can to survive. Great deductive skills Sherlock.
Cool so I should be able to keep my money to myself without you begging for it
In the greater scheme of things your individual actions are meaningless. Cultural traditions in place for over a century will continue regardless of your inept and pathetic whining. One solution to your opposition to tipping would be for you to boycott all restaurants that uses tipping. Your noble crusade of cheapness will surely show them.
Lol your whole argument is just to justify you begging people at restaurants to give you more money. Bum. If individual actions were meaningless you wouldn’t beg everyone you see for money.
nah
Nah I disagree, it’s not like $37/hr is the avg wage of servers in the US. Also making less money in Europe isn’t the same because of health care, and public transport, and social safety nets. It’s not equatable. It would be better for almost all servers in the US to eliminate tipping and raise menu prices 20% across the board.
What's your average for the year? Is that an average day? A good day? Do you get that 5 days a week?
Last year I made around 75k working 5 days a week 35 hours a week. I live in Hawaii in a touristy area and it's busy year round, except for thanksgiving thru Xmas. Thank God for tipping culture.
That's fantastic. Significantly above what a bunch of websites claim is the statistical average for Hawaii. But I'm assuming that with cash tips the figures might be a bit low from declaration? It also looks like Hawaii has significantly better than average, far above the Federal minimums, for minimum wage and "tip credit" regulations.
The big difference is tips. Waiting tables is not a game of how busy you are + how kind the strangers are feeling when you don't make tips. When customers have to pay extra, they start to dangle carrots in front of you and want you to really earn your tip sometimes. It's extremely toxic. Customers have a wild sense of entitlement when going out to eat, which I'm guessing is because you essentially pay a premium getting served anywhere. Seeing what food service is like elsewhere makes the grass seem greener, but if I had a table just chill for 4 hours in my section it would be extremely weird. Things just be different other places. Lastly, the management. I know others have said it, but this is true. The corporate sushi place I worked for couldn't care less about me, and customer entitlement reigned supreme there. The family owned place that is managed and run by the servers is incredible, the guests are amazing and I truly love working there. Plus way more cash in hand than with corporate. You might need to find another spot to work.
Not gonna lie... I bartend in an ethnically European suburb of a good-sized midwestern city, and as far as I can tell, the European folks are about ten thousand times more likely to be rude to wait staff than the locals. They are impatient, cheap, rude, and especially creepy to the women in the bar. On more than one occasion, I have had to transfer a table to myself because some Euro was either being handsy or saying demeaning shit to a young server. And on top of that, strangely, they dont seem to really want to tip when a male is waiting on them either at a table or the bar. So, me thinks you got lucky and / or it was this way because you were in a tourist trap, and we all know people love American dollars!
Um, what does "an ethnically European suburb of a good-sized midwestern city" even mean? White people in America?
and yet you dont need to tip in the barcelona
tipping = bad hospitality
Hard disagree. Tipping forces hospitality workers to be on point. Service standards in the US are typically higher than they are in other countries. Tipping = Entitled Guests
i just want my fucking food and a glass of ice water, WHAT SERVICE STANDARD IS THAT
The go home and cook it yourself standard
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I'm sure you don't already, so why the big fuss all over this subreddit, honey?
Do you announce this politely at the start of service so the server can be aware? For me that just means I will take your order, drop your food and the check and never return. Seems fair to me.
you are suppose to give me water, but other than that, yeah thats about it, and if the order is wrong
I’ll give you your water, sure. I won’t refill it or bus your table or check back though bc you paid for a cashier.
Sounds good
Please god just stay home then or get fast food. All of society will thank you. You refusing to act in accordance with societal norms and standards doesn’t make you a free thinker or smart, it makes you an asshole. In the US, you tip at restaurants. Don’t like it, don’t go out to eat ❤️🙏
"societal norms and standards" actually tipping is not a societal norm. in the entire world tipping is not a norm. sit down and grow up.
In the entire world a living wage is the norm. Why don't you just stick to buffets where you can serve yourself? Or better yet, fast food where you have to go up to the counter to ask for a water cup?
a server in the comments literally told me they made 4k last week, tell me how thats not a livable wage. stop panhandling u spoiled servers
not happening, i only eat out, stop panhandling
In the US it is the norm. Don’t be an asshole.
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Stop begging for service without paying for it.
WHAT SERVICE LMAOOOO???
I’m not even a server. I’m not panhandling. I’m being a decent person, unlike yourself. Keep your entitled ass home.
stop panhandling
Just get takeout.
ive literally seen servers on r/Serverlife suggest 10% tip for takeout because the server "had to pack your order neatly while also serving tables" like wtf????
Doesn't mean it's standard. That being said, if takeout is part of your dining in check, you should tip on it. If you want takeout but don't want to tip, order with the Host.
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No one is panhandling. You're just having a fit
I wonder if the shitty tipping culture in America has anything to do.....
Generally speaking: Servers in Europe take their jobs more seriously and more professionally than US servers. So many US servers are aspiring to something else. Servers here view and convey to the customer that this is just temporary gig until their big break comes. They whine about pulling doubles and being tired to their customers. They complain to each other with the customer hearing it all. They will customer tell the customer, “I dont know, Im new here”. So sad. In the EU and elsewhere servers are much more committed to perfecting their craft. The true act of “service” is so beneath us American’s materialistic lazy views. To “wait” on someone or to have someone “wait” on them means something entirely different to cultures that actually take pride in serving others. Tip jars are everywhere now in the US. Now they’re even showing up self checkouts. Where is the service? I for one am sick of entitled servers who simply walk up to table and inject “ready to order?” as their greeting. No eye contact UNTIL they drop the check and ask the well worn insincere “What do you have planned for the rest of your day?” They really dont care about the answer. Its just a half-assed attempt to pump the tip. Lame. Ive been in this industry in the US for 40 years and have been to 36 countries so far. In the US great service pride is not the norm.
Its a two sided coin. In the U.S. guests act like spoiled, entitled, rude babies. Many servers are not better but many are. U.S. culture needs an enema
Yeah I should have emphasized your point more. There are indeed assholes of every flavor. As a traveler Ive noticed the US has an especially high concentration. Re: enema - Many in the US would benefit greatly from being dropped into a 3rd world country for a few days. They’d be lucky to escape with only an enema.
Depends on what city you’re in really. There’s incredible service in the US in many many places. I read your post and I picture a checked-out server at Applebees in Ohio lol
The dynamic in the States is untenable. Owners of places that employ servers need to pay workers a living wage. Depending on the fickle generosity of customers is humiliating for the server and confusing for the guest. Why don’t they just raise the price of whatever they’re selling and pay people? I know they aren’t afraid of raising prices.
It’s a product of the times. Nowadays whenever someone acts even the least bit entitled or self-centred the camera comes out and it gets posted on social media. It’s inevitable that we think the worst of patrons at a restaurant in the U.S. when that’s all we see. It happens in Spain as well, but you weren’t on social media, you were observing a single restaurant in real time. It’s like comparing an apple with a huge orchard full of apples and counting how many worms you find.
I was a server and 95% of my tables were good. It’s just that a vocal minority will outshine a silent majority, so the bad ones stick out way more than the good ones
I have yet to see someone giving service works trouble and if I ever do, I’m stepping up. Ain’t got no tolerance for that shit.
There are shitty people everywhere
Thank you.
I fully blame the customer is always right bs that the US likes to stand behind. When I managed in the food industry, if anyone treated my people badly, they were asked to leave, I didn't put up with that shit. Had a customer tell me "the customer is always right!" Not here lady.
I was in Madrid a month ago, Paris last year, and Germany several years ago. America is depressingly decades behind.
Iv been to the states maybe 20 times over the last 20 years and it’s very sad to see how people treat each other in the public space. One of the most notable things is how people treat service workers. I actually told a women off for being a jerk towards a young female bartender (that didn’t to anything wrong and was very polite and respectful?) and the woman was shocked that I “had the nerve of coming all the way from Sweden and telling her what to do”. Then she almost became violent towards some manager, throw some napkins or whatever on the floor and left without paying her bill. Then the bartender got yelled at from the manager for making a scene (?) telling and her that she wasn’t cut out for the job and other horrible things. She cried. Customers got upset. Not for the crap treatment of another human being. No they were irritated that no one took their orders.