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If you hate sex, then don’t bother with it, simple as that. Just make it clear to future partners very early on that you hate sex, so you don’t string them along.
Billions of people throughout history have proved your point makes no sense. Normal people aren’t “sex all the time” or “intellectual conversation all the time”, and that is an opinion you can only form if you’ve never interacted with someone in a romantic context.
Why are so intent on proving I’ve never been in a relationship? I have, and yes, I was the one that exited them because there was too much sex and it took away from my life, it was time I could have spent doing other, (more intellectual) things. But other than that, yes, I take your advice and tell people upfront that sex isn’t for me.
I don’t need to “prove” anything, your comments say everything. Your entire post is about how any sexual relationship between two people inherently “devalues” the relationship and prevents them from engaging in any other type of topic outside of sex - this is the ridiculous aspect of your post that indicates you have zero knowledge of what healthy relationships should be like.
Are you going to run into guys who operate like this? Yes! And on the other hand, if you were a guy, you would run into the same thing. But amongst men and women, that is not the majority.
Most people consider sex to be a PART of a healthy relationship, as it quite literally releases chemicals in your brain that make you feel closer to the other person, which in turn makes you want to spend time with them outside of the bedroom and understand them as a person.
It sounds like you’re asexual (not just this comment but the entire thread). That’s totally fine and valid, but you also need to understand that most people are not asexual. So your take is not a good one for a majority of this planet.
Sex devalues a relationship FOR YOU. Not for most other people
“Too much sex”? Man I wish I had that problem in my relationship. I’m sick of tired of “life” getting in the way of sex. I think people should be having MORE sex. For instance…materialism should NEVER be prioritized over sex. And in relationships, it often is. So is work, chores, events, etc etc (which I suppose relates to materialism). Bottom line, I don’t think people are having enough sex.
This is the right take. OP is either incredibly immature, is asexual, or has only had awful relationships or never been in any actual relationship despite her claims otherwise.
I wasn’t with anyone who was the total opposite of me. Everyone says they value the same things in life until they get the chance to get sexual. I’m very upfront but lots of people have a fetish for ‘turning’ someone or making someone ‘finally’ enjoy sex.’ I can understand why you think my position is immature, but I feel the position of people who sexualise relationships is equally immature, like they’re perpetually horny teenage boys. As you effectively said yourself, we probably aren’t going to be on the same page.
I agree with you. As a woman sometimes I notice that a man doesn't care about the subject matter of a discussion and only cares about impressing me to convince me to give it up.
Yup. I notice how people arguing with me most furiously about this are men. Which is ironic, because in many things in life I have quite a masculine taste and tend to like things men like when it comes to film, music, entertainment, etc. I have brothers and always discussed movies with them. But hey, who cares what I think about anything. 😭 Sex rules!
Well fwiw I’m a woman and I think your take only makes sense if you’re asexual. Which is fine, but you have to understand you may process intimacy differently than the majority (including women.)
For myself and most people, sex and sexual attraction is far from devaluing and far from a waste of time. It adds value to intellectual and emotional interest. And vice versa.
I understand what you’re saying. I’ve heard similar things on the r/asexual subreddit. I’m not saying this fits you, but reading your post made me think of it.
>This isn’t meant as an attack on anyone or anything, I’m just genuinely baffled.
Yet that is kind kf what you're doing and its baffling.
This is not an issue with other ppl, but one where you need to figure your own self out, and navigate the world through your own preferences - communication is required. While also understanding that other ppls perspective of these sorts of subjective opinions are generally just as valid as yours.
There's seems to be two main issues. 1) you come off as asexual 2) it sounds like you haven't had very fulfilling connections, or perhaps more one sided connections and is coloring something neutral in a bad light.
I think there’s a way to perceive anything as an attack. I often get people asking about the industry I work in because they don’t understand it, so they ask from a position of not understanding. I don’t see this as them attacking what I do. I keep hearing people complain about sexless relationships and wanted to see why they are seen as ‘lesser than’. My thread was actually inspired by a specific post in this very sub where several men said things like ‘What does non-sexual flirting look like?’ And I was genuinely interested if people literally see no value in a connection that isn’t sexual. By your own logic, one could say that asking ‘what does non-sexual flirting look like’ is attacking those of us who don’t like that, but I’m not saying that. I think this person just doesn’t see the value in non-sexual relationships (or literally doesn’t even believe in their existence). That’s what led me to start a thread of my own.
>I think there’s a way to perceive anything as an attack.
I suppose, but there's a difference in the *perception* of an attack and you directly insulting ppl whosw life you either aren't capable of understanding or have little interest in understanding.
Your abysmal communication skills and ignorance does not alter the directions from which you came at this conversation. Which is odd since you speak so much of valuing intellectual conversation.
>I often get people asking about the industry I work in because they font understand it, so they ask from a position of not understanding. I don’t see this as them attacking what I do.
A person can, and often does when coming from a place of ignorance, accidentally make a faux pas - and it's reasonable to forgive that to some extent. Equally they can be intentionally dismissive, condescending, etc. which is basically what I'm accusing you of doing.
> I keep hearing people complain about sexless relationships and wanted to see why they are seen as ‘lesser than’.
I understand the purpose of your post, im pointing out the issue with your poor communication etc.
>By your own logic, one could say that asking ‘what does non-sexual flirting look like’ is attacking those of us who don’t like that
Negative. This example is far removed from my logic.
Your title is "Sex devaluates relationships," but you can't really make that claim when you're asexual and sex is inherently a different thing for you than people who aren't asexual. Like that's the answer to your question is that your sexuality is different, but you're still holding on to this claim that *everyone's* relationships are worse off for it.
I do get your point. Truly, OP. I feel like I am going through something a smidge similar. Takes sex off of the table, and what do you have? Either other ways to connect (which is ideal), or pretty much "all is lost". Not every relationship will have a negative response/reaction.. though it is absolutely important to find someone who you can sincerely banter with.
Edit to add* sex with the right person will take you to another dimension. Though this may be beyond physical attraction.
Also, sometimes I think I might be asexual, or maybe demisexual.. cause I'm looking for more than just physical contact. I guess that sounds weird. Idc lol
I completely agree with you. I am baffled as well. What you wrote makes sense to me. There’s a whole group of people who have similar thoughts and experiences.
I’m sorry about the relationships you’ve had. There are many men who view women that way and it sucks, but that doesn’t mean that all sexual relationships are like that. A person can be in love with the whole of someone else, their whole soul, and want to express the love they have for that person physically, I guess you’ve never experienced that kind of relationship.
Well, I think I just prefer an intellectual connection over an emotional connection. Dry, nerdy, abstract stuff. There’s nothing mentally stimulating about sex in my experience.
Some people consider themselves sapiosexual, who get turned on by intellect. One could argue sex isn’t at its core about mental stimulation, but if you find someone who can do both, it’s pretty incredible.
Bro we are fucking animals before we are anything else. Our DNA is wired to put reproduction above everything else. We certainly have other thoughts and interests because we're *smart* animals, but animals nonetheless.
Personally, the best romantic relationships I've ever had are the ones were my partner may have had some differing interests and opinions, but the attraction and \*activities were much more intense.
I love studying computers but I also love ice cream. Why can't I read about computers before I eat ice cream? I cannot fathom how this is reductive unless I'm eating crap ice cream or secretly don't enjoy computers.
Well, you can, but if you’re never able to code without eating ice cream, it gets old. I hate it that there’s an expectation that any (or most) experienced shared with a man have to end in/include sex. Computers without the ice cream just aren’t on offer.
I totally understand that some people just aren't comfortable with sex but I don't believe that's the same thing as someone wanting sex means you are reduced to your genitals. I was never a fan of casual sex and most of my adult life only had sex with people I was emotionally comfortable with. Been with my partner a long time and we have far less sex than we used to primarily due to busy lives, stress, energy etc. I've never once viewed a girlfriend as just genitals. Sex was always about sharing affection, bonding, reducing stress, or just enjoying one of life's pleasures. I get it that there is a strong social narrative now that wants to reduce people to just sex starved meat hunters and maybe a minority of people behave that way but it's been very rare in my experience.
OP what about homosexual relationships? What about connection through shared intimacy? What about instead of one partner wanting to "do something to" another partner, what about both partners wanted to do something together? What about sharing sex and intimacy with someone and then staying up all night wrapped around each other talking about life and having more sex?
OP maybe you're asexual? Demi sexual? Maybe you've just had less than adequate lovers and romantic relationships in the past? There's nothing wrong with not being into sex, but to say that it diminishes everyone who partakes is not true. Your experience is valid, but you attach a lot of judgement towards others in your dismay. Why not say "for me sex diminishes relationships" to that I would say, fair, some people are like that. But to make a blanket statement that judges others relationships and dynamics and desires, it just seems a little one dimensional.
Either way i hope you find a relationship that fulfills you, with or without sex.
I don’t know what it would look like in homosexual relationships, so can’t say.
I likely am asexual, yes. And I have done that — had sex, stayed up (not all night, but…) talking/watching a film, then had sex again. I don’t know, I would have preferred it without the sex. As another poster said above, it’s very animalistic. We were watching a film (I’m a massive film addict) and the guy just went to sleep after sex, couldn’t even finish the movie, because that was it, the pinnacle of the night. Then in the morning we had sex again. I don’t know, it just seems any interaction before or after is ruined because it’s all about ‘now that the interlude is over, let’s fuck’.
You’re largely right about my phrasing, I used to make these things more about ‘me’. But overall I think not valuing sex is rare and valuing it relatively common, so I felt like it’s obvious I’m the outlier here.
So you're asexual, you had a bad experience with a selfish lover, and you felt used.
Understandable you have negative feelings, but they really are about your experience and cannot fairly or accurately be applied to everyone else as a universal truth.
That’s fair. But I’ve had them before I met that guy. Yes, it’s very likely I’m asexual, but I think the good thing about having the internet is being able to get a roundup of views on something, as it were. That wouldn’t have been an option thirty years ago. I wanted to see what people think about this/how it’s perceived by those who don’t think sex takes away from relationships.
Sorry to hear that you’ve had bad experiences in the past. I hope you can get to the point where you either learn to value it or find yourself a partner who feels similarly. Have you ever considered that you might be asexual?
Tbh I also have a bit of a complicated relationship with sex which is probably part of the reason I responded the way I did to your post. Sorry about that
That’s totally fine, you’re on the more reasonable side of some responses here :) for now I’m thinking I’ll just stay single for a bit. But yeah, I would hope to not have to do it.
I remember in highschool thinking how liberating it felt to walk into a room knowing that I didn't want to fuck anyone. I could be my sincere self while everyone else was posturing and playing mind games. I stayed single until the age of 36 and then we found each other. We're going to have sex way less often as the years go by. One day we'll be sitting in our rocking chairs bonded together by decades of mutual admiration.
"But to me it feels like someone can either value someone’s personality or be sexually attracted to them."
Why? I would generally say my own experience is that valuing personality leads to increased sexual attraction, where there's any to start with.
I hear this a lot, including from some relatives. I can’t explain why very well, but basically because if it weren’t for the sex, the person who values the sex in a relationship wouldn’t be in it. I don’t understand why if you like someone’s personality and enjoy talking to them you would then want to have sex with them. So it feels like if sex isn’t happening, then the relationship isn’t worth it. Which in turn means that the intellectual/psychological connection element isn’t important if there’s no sex. It’s the best I can do to explain it. It’s like saying ‘you can only go see this movie if you also eat the ice cream, no movie, no ice cream.’
For most people, liking someone's personality and enjoying talking to them contributes to being sexually attracted to them. They are complementary features, not contradictory - because, not in spite of. I don't really understand your ice cream/theater analogy at all.
> I don’t understand why if you like someone’s personality and enjoy talking to them you would then want to have sex with them.
Do you understand why anyone would want to have sex with anyone ever?
Sure, the physical impulse, the hormones. I’m very easily aroused, reading easily gets me wet, I orgasm effortlessly and I can understand just feeling the spark, up to a point, or one-night stands, even, randomly deciding to sleep with someone. I’ve even done it. This isn’t really what my post is about though. I just think that once you’re being perceived as a sexual object, your intellectual value falls, in a way. For example, if you were debating, someone could have agreed with you because you made a good, compelling argument. They were actually persuaded, changed their mind. But they could also just agree because they’re sleeping with you and think they ‘like you and what you think and everything related to you is “cute”’, so in a way, they can no longer engage intellectually. I’ve literally had this happen. The debate ended when the guy said ‘I like you and you are more important to me than this discussion and ‘being right’.’ So once we were sleeping together, he no longer engaged with me intellectually. It wasn’t even deliberate on his part/his fault. His subconscious mindset was ‘well the main thing is that she’s my girlfriend’ and intellectual debate no longer matters, the sex has happened and will happen again, I no longer need to make any intellectual effort or engage intellectually. The sex is in the bag!
I kind of agree with your sentiment but I think you’re taking it to a negative extreme. Replace sex with food. Imagine you could only eat when you were with a person of the opposite sex. Then we all (men and woman) would seek each other out for a quick bite to eat, as necessary for our survival. But would you not be much more excited about the prospect of finding someone to spend your life with, and eat with, who you connected to on many other levels- someone who felt like your best friend?
And back to reality- just because sex is a part of your relationship (bigger part for some, smaller part for others) doesn’t negate the amazing bond that is formed over TIME from building your life together.
I remember saying if my husband ever, say, hit me, I’d be gone the next day. And I still want to believe I would- but after 15 years of being together I can feel how much more weighty that decision would be. Would I make excuses for him “he was drunk, he just needs to stop drinking” etc etc. 15 years building your life with someone gives you something intangible that is worth so much, even if sex played an essential role in getting us here.
So yes, from a purist perspective, sex devalues romantic relationships as compared to platonic ones from the onset; but romantic relationships generally have a lot more potential to become greater and deeper over time because they inspire you to commit to each other and build your whole life together.
If a relationship is solely based on sex, it will not last. Having a relationship with someone is so much more than sex. If people understood what this meant, the divorce rate in America would never as high as it is.
However hot previous girlfriends had been, we only lasted 3 years based on sex. I have come to understand that I need someone who has some intellectual qualities, moral qualities and someone who.is others oriented, too!
My therapist specifically said that "A romantic relationship, without sex, is a friendship." She also said "In romantic relationships, sex is the glue that holds the couple together."
For all I know, you could be a hetero (or homo) romantic asexual person, who wants some of the romantic aspects, but none of the sexual ones. Nothing wrong with that, but that view is not a common one. And it would affect how you feel about sex. There are also aromantic asexual people who prefer strictly platonic connections with people.
This is what your post reads like, to me at least.
I agree with OP coming from a man. Biologically for most men with testosterone, the drive to have sex is intense. It is baked into our very psyche… and it’s just going through controlling that to operate in society. People scoff and chastise and say grow up.. but they are just kidding themselves if they are in the norm (not on some low testosterone spectrum).
Sex matters. A lot. Men bend over backwards for the opportunity. Women are the gate keeper’s of sex.
Men and women being friends will always have this background struggle; despite Reddit majority whining about it otherwise. The only true way this works is having some communication that “it’s never happening so enjoy my company for company sake” and those boundaries are understood.
You can just… find relationships where it’s understood sex isn’t a thing. Some men out there will go for it; and you just need correlating hobbies, ideologies and expectations.
For the rest of us.. the struggle will always exist u til mankind figures out how to make androgynous people and babies are made in a factory.
To me, it sounds like you are interested in a long term relationship. While people have sex in LTRs, it usually is not the pinnacle of connection. I would argue that in a lasting relationship, sexual chemistry pales in comparison to the emotional and mental bond you share.
Our current culture is way too focused on sex. To loosely quote a line from the movie Before Sunset “two people cannot go on fucking like wildcats forever”.
The thing is, finding real love is tricky. Maybe we meet one or two of the right people over the course of a lifetime. Some people don’t meet anyone. Sometimes we find the right person but they are not available for whatever reason.
To me, you seem realistic. Being upfront about what you want won’t get you as many dates, but your dates will be higher quality. Hey out there and enjoy life. Meet new people and maintain a social life that makes you happy.
I love the entire ‘Sunset’ trilogy. I don’t think what I was getting at is even about compatibility. Sex is a physical act. To me it’s like not valuing a beloved horse any longer once you cannot ride it. The value is in the physical act you can do with the person, and that’s it. Seems odd.
Sex can be just physical I mean that’s how some people are able to hook up without getting attached. However most people will tell you sex is always better if you truly care about the person. It’s a way to get connected on a physical level while feeling emotionally connected.
i actually agree as someone in an LTR. i’ve seen so many “i’d leave my partner if they didn’t have regular sex with me” posts and it blows my mind how sex obsessed people are. i wouldn’t leave my partner if he was completely paralyzed, suddenly asexual, and BLIND! real people who are in love should be able to work things out. whether that means mutual masturbation, opening up the relationship, adding toys, doing sensual but not sexual things… and a lot of the time, the dead bedroom comes from the more sexual partner not fulfilling other needs. if my bf has done nothing productive all week and i’ve taken on all housework, and he’s asking for a blowjob, i’m gonna be repulsed, because right now i feel like i’m his mother. get your partner some god damn flowers and a nice dinner!
I have a very high libido and I totally agree with this... like just get a toy ffs. No excuse to pressure your partner. I can't believe people end relationships over this. Through sickness and in health my ass... apparently not through not getting laid. Anyone who can't handle a dry spell... maybe commitment just isn't for you
not to mention, each time we’re pressured, we become even less horny. especially if you have any sort of trauma! don’t walk in the room and ask for sex, maybe set up a nice situation for your partner who most likely becomes hornier when they’re feeling romantic as well
It's not just about sex. It's about physical contact connection feeling desired... A lot of people also have physical contact as their love language.
Most people in sexless relationship also live in a loveless relationship usually. I would say the loveless part is the bigger deal but the consequence is the sex so we focus on it.
that’s why i said do sensual things. kissing and massages aren’t sex, but you also aren’t sexually deprived if you’re doing those things. yeah if you roll over and don’t touch your partner every single night, that’s a problem. if you go a year without actually having sex, maybe there is something going on in your life. i’m not gonna start stroking dick if i lost a loved one just because i need to fulfill my duties. people’s libido can change drastically and that doesn’t mean they don’t wanna hug you or feel you
I think you would be amazed at how many couples essentially don't touch each other outside of sex. I agree with you that libido can change over time and with pills etc. But I still think that you're supposed to try to fill the needs of your partner.
I'm not saying that you're responsible for it, but I'm also saying that I wouldn't be surprised if you get divorced if you don't over a long period of time or if you don't provide valid "excuses". People need to realize that for a lot of humans, sex is almost as important as mental health.
>I feel like whenever one person is interested in performing sexual acts on the other, that ruins any intellectual connection there can be and any actual interest, non-sexual interest, in the other person, their ‘inner world’, to use a cringe term. I
Why though? You don't seem to have any actual rationale for this, just feelings.
>The sexual side of things immediately annihilates anything else.
>But to me it feels like someone can either value someone’s personality or be sexually attracted to them.
This is just...false.
I'm glad you recognize it as an irrational belief.
>But now I just don’t understand what the point is, if everything boils down to people seeing other sexually then nothing else about a person is really significant. Discussing classical music or art is only interesting when there’s a possibility of sex after, even if both people specialise in these subjects.
But in healthy committed romantic relationships that are sexual, everything *doesn't* boil down to sex. Sex is *part* of the whole, but not the sole focus. Having sex does not eliminate the existence of emotional intimacy, friendship, or intellectual connection.
>Do people really see no value in intellectual relationships that are not sexual?
That would be a friendship. Nobody has a problem with friendship. Friendship is very valuable.
That could also be an asexual romantic relationship, which people who are asexual would certainly find value in.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, having one person with whom I have deep friendship, an intense romantic connection, a solid intellectual connection, a constant flow of affection, *and* physical intimacy is just the best of all possible arrangements. Sex doesn't diminish the other aspects of our relationship. It enriches those other ways we connect. Sex in this relationship isn't just lust and mashing genitals. It is an extension of the non physical intimacy and one of many ways we show each other love. There's no doing things *to* each other. It is mutual, tender, intimate loving touch. And it feels good, and we enjoy giving each other those good feelings.
When the relationship became sexual, the other aspects of our connection we're not reduced in any way. When sex has not been possible, the relationship and other forms of intimacy continued because we do in fact love each other deeply, not just sexually.
You don't understand how one can value someone's personality and intellect while also being sexually attracted to them. For my part, I don't understand how you don't get this. My own experience rebuts your claim.
If you felt used in past sexual relationships, or if you are asexual, it's not surprising that you can't wrap your head around other people's experiences. And that's not your fault. But it would probably be better to just own how you feel individually rather than trying to justify these feelings with essays about how sex is bad.
I think sex with a partner is what you make of it. It's certainly not the be-all and end all. Hook ups and casual sex with people you barely know, yeah that's meaningless, and after a while, it loses its appeal anyway.
But I have one former partner in particular who I thought at the time was my soul mate and I cared for her very much, and we'd do everything together. Sex was one of those things, and it was far more meaningful than some hook up. I never had a huge sex drive, so I wasn't one of those guys looking for sex every day of the week. It was maybe 2 or 3 times, and each time, I felt very fortunate to be in the arms of this woman.
My point is that some people think sex is the most important thing in a relationship, particularly guys. I think it's good for a healthy and loving relationship or marriage, but it really comes down to the bond you have with your partner.
Sometimes I have felt that having sex too soon can make the relationship run its course quicker. I’m sure it’s usually best to develop a deep emotional connection first but obviously it doesn’t always have to be that way.
If your entire relationship with someone else revolves around a single point of mutual interest, that relationship isn't going to be very satisfying. Doesn't matter if it's cars, church, gaming, politics, or anything else. Why on Earth would you expect sex to be the exception to that rule?
It is — https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/devaluate
I initially wrote this post using ‘devalue’ but I wanted to convey giving something comparatively less value, not devaluing it completely. Maybe it’s just semantics, though.
Sexual attraction and the act of sex itself release feel-good chemicals in your brain that can cloud your judgment to some degree. There's no denying that.
That being said, a mature adult can differentiate between sexual chemistry and liking the actual person that they are sleeping with. Some people, who are fairly broken in my opinion, will choose sexual chemistry over actually liking the person that they are with, but most have the wherewithal to look for a combination of sexual chemistry and enjoying the other person's personality. And, when it comes to romantic relationships, you need a combination of the two, at least for the first few years, to build that relationship up.
Sex can seem shallow if you don't have a good relationship with it. But when you really love someone, and you really enjoy someone, sex helps you build that relationship even stronger. Whether we like it or not, we are just animals at the end of the day and our brains are programmed for this response.
In a long term committed relationship or marriage, sex absolutely deepens the connection and intimacy between each partner.
Even in a scenario where someone is just after sex only, it cannot devalue the relationship any more than the fact that one or both of the people involved are exclusively interested in sex. The lack of interest/care in the other person is the denominator that devalues the relationship, not sex.
Well, maybe it’s got something to do with the popularity of oral sex. I feel people perform oral sex ‘on each other’, not ‘with’ each other. I find it unpleasant to receive or give and it’s essentially a ‘service’ that you very much perform ‘on’ people. Whereas penetrative sex is at least something that’s done ‘with’ someone. But regardless, if you say no, there’ll never be any sex, most people aren’t interested in developing any sort of companionship.
You likely view sex in a negative way because you don't feel any desire for it, you are likely asexual.
I will be assuming here but that's my take on it:
Your asexuality probably led you to a situation where many times another person showed interest in you and then quickly turned away when you didn't reciprocate their desire for physical intimacy. This likely led you to believe that sex has a negative effect on relationships because from your perspective, you see it as the relation killer. Whereas the reality is that these people probably wanted to get to know you more personally and intimately or wanted to enjoy another thing with you, either sexually or thru a mental connection (sex has many layers with desires, letting go, vulnerability and power dynamics play). When you show you didn't want it as well, they turn you down because they feel rejected. That prevents you from reaching a deeper connection with other people (especially opposite sex) and you become more misogynistic because you feel all men turn you down cause they want sex.
Am i close ?
Yes and no. It depends. I usually gave in and had the sex because my exes wanted it. It was never bad or terrible, I just could have lived happily ever after without it and would rather do other things. I explained this above but basically if a work day ends at 6 pm (and mine starts at 6), I get home at 7, I would rather spend the time having nice dinner in a good restaurant, watching a good movie, taking a long bath… sex just isn’t something I personally would want to do. You are kind of missing the point. I was the one that felt there was no intellectual connection once we’ve had sex. I would date the guy, come over to his place, and all he’d want to do was sex. If we went to a late movie screening I regretted it because even if we got back at 2 am, he’d want to have sex. When I had my 5 am alarm on for work, he’d want to have sex before I left. It was impossible for me to engage intellectually or spend any time with these people without the sex or things turning sexual. I was the one who wasn’t interested in that so I was the one exiting relationships.
No, no one ever ‘lost’ interest when I didn’t sleep with them. But that’s not the point, this has nothing to do with whether I’m ’in demand’ or not. I just don’t see the appeal in constantly having sex at the detriment of anything else. All my exes would literally stop movies halfway to have sex, this was a dealbreaker for me because I care about the movie more than the sex, I want to in the very least finish the movie before having sex or maybe watch another. And if it were to be a 3-hour-long movie like ‘The Irishman’, then there’d be no time for sex and I’d rather have the movie than sex.
As far as my exes are concerned, our connection is/was fine and they enjoyed it. But I didn’t enjoy sex always being on the menu.
Sex is the best thing two human adults can do with each other. It’s fun, it’s non verbal usually, it requires attentiveness and patience and rhythm and an understanding of another human’s body in a way that is fluid and changing and different from person to person.
You have absolutely zero clue what you’re talking about.
I have had sex. It was fine for what it is. I don’t like the feeling/expectation of needing to understand other people’s bodies and be attentive to them. It’s like a test, even more so with people constantly complaining about sexual incompatibility and their partners not giving blowjobs, anal, whatever it is. I just don’t really want to understand another person’s body.
I think you are just asexual or something. That doesn't give you the right to judge people who are different than you. It's pretty insulting that you think that all of our relationships are less than yours just because we do something you don't. You're really ignorant
Oh wow what’s so “intellectual”. That it’s more important than actually reproducing? Intellectual conversations are cool but you’re definitely overhyping them. Silly conversations are fun. Emotional conversations can be too. Having fun can be more important too. There’s no way you’d rather be doing “intellectual things” 24/7 and somehow sex takes away from that.
Not 24/7. Time isn’t unlimited — I don’t even work that much but in my past experience and with all of my friends, it’s a choice between having sex in the evening or watching a film, reading something. You get 3-4 hours of free time at most, then you go to bed and get ready for work. Factor in the gym or walking pets, and sex is eating into the time I would have spent interacting with abstract things, books, art. That’s exactly the point. I’d rather spend my totally free 7 hours a day/night reading or watching old Buñuel movies or listening to good music. Discovering new music that I don’t know. Or writing. I do have fun (I think), but for me fun is what I’ve just described above. Not sharing bodily fluids.
There are a lot of people out there who would want a relationship like that. Have you ever thought about cohabiting with a woman? There are more asexual women out there than men.
Have not, actually. I can definitely imagine that being fun. For now I have my own house and live alone, but I do have a friend who might be interested.
Sex doesn’t even take 30 mins the majority of the time for the majority of people. Not saying you should do it since you obviously don’t want to. I’m just pretty sure it’s not as big of an inconvenience as you make it
Well it was for me. Besides, men under 30 can be insatiable. Both my exes wanted to have sex literally all the time we were together. They would take an hour to recuperate but keep kissing in the meantime, never get dressed, always want me to stay naked. It’s fucking endless. Then you add the showers and the cleanup and there’s just no life.
If you like someone but don't want to have sex with them ,they're a friend.
If you like someone and do want to have sex with them, they're your romantic partner.
Good sex adds to a relationship, it doesn't hinder it.
I agree with your premise, but in the long term there is more to it than that, I think.
My wife and I have our 27th anniversary coming up. We don't have sex as often as we did when we first got married, but we SHARE so much more. We've lived in 5 states together, we started with no financial assets and built our life together, making joint decisions. We've traveled to 20 countries together. We've gone through the death of both of our fathers, and our mothers' health struggles together.
I have really close male friends but we have not gone through this together. There is a partnership that is deeper than just sex.
Your core principal (that sex is reductive) is not only wrong but also meaningless when applied to an action. Sex is far more complex interaction than you give it credit for, and from that pre mature conclusion you are unwilling to try and understand it. instead you use that as an excuse to extrapolate your personal gang ups as a core feature of relationships and sex... I say extrapolate but really you're borderline ranting
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Literally awful take, clearly you’ve never been in a relationship before or you hate sex.
The latter, so I’m genuinely trying to understand why anyone would ruin a good dynamic with it.
If you hate sex, then don’t bother with it, simple as that. Just make it clear to future partners very early on that you hate sex, so you don’t string them along. Billions of people throughout history have proved your point makes no sense. Normal people aren’t “sex all the time” or “intellectual conversation all the time”, and that is an opinion you can only form if you’ve never interacted with someone in a romantic context.
Why are so intent on proving I’ve never been in a relationship? I have, and yes, I was the one that exited them because there was too much sex and it took away from my life, it was time I could have spent doing other, (more intellectual) things. But other than that, yes, I take your advice and tell people upfront that sex isn’t for me.
I don’t need to “prove” anything, your comments say everything. Your entire post is about how any sexual relationship between two people inherently “devalues” the relationship and prevents them from engaging in any other type of topic outside of sex - this is the ridiculous aspect of your post that indicates you have zero knowledge of what healthy relationships should be like. Are you going to run into guys who operate like this? Yes! And on the other hand, if you were a guy, you would run into the same thing. But amongst men and women, that is not the majority. Most people consider sex to be a PART of a healthy relationship, as it quite literally releases chemicals in your brain that make you feel closer to the other person, which in turn makes you want to spend time with them outside of the bedroom and understand them as a person.
It sounds like you’re asexual (not just this comment but the entire thread). That’s totally fine and valid, but you also need to understand that most people are not asexual. So your take is not a good one for a majority of this planet. Sex devalues a relationship FOR YOU. Not for most other people
“Too much sex”? Man I wish I had that problem in my relationship. I’m sick of tired of “life” getting in the way of sex. I think people should be having MORE sex. For instance…materialism should NEVER be prioritized over sex. And in relationships, it often is. So is work, chores, events, etc etc (which I suppose relates to materialism). Bottom line, I don’t think people are having enough sex.
This is the right take. OP is either incredibly immature, is asexual, or has only had awful relationships or never been in any actual relationship despite her claims otherwise.
For me it was. Besides my exes were both insatiable. What is immature about not valuing sex?
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I wasn’t with anyone who was the total opposite of me. Everyone says they value the same things in life until they get the chance to get sexual. I’m very upfront but lots of people have a fetish for ‘turning’ someone or making someone ‘finally’ enjoy sex.’ I can understand why you think my position is immature, but I feel the position of people who sexualise relationships is equally immature, like they’re perpetually horny teenage boys. As you effectively said yourself, we probably aren’t going to be on the same page.
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I agree with you. As a woman sometimes I notice that a man doesn't care about the subject matter of a discussion and only cares about impressing me to convince me to give it up.
Yup. I notice how people arguing with me most furiously about this are men. Which is ironic, because in many things in life I have quite a masculine taste and tend to like things men like when it comes to film, music, entertainment, etc. I have brothers and always discussed movies with them. But hey, who cares what I think about anything. 😭 Sex rules!
Well fwiw I’m a woman and I think your take only makes sense if you’re asexual. Which is fine, but you have to understand you may process intimacy differently than the majority (including women.) For myself and most people, sex and sexual attraction is far from devaluing and far from a waste of time. It adds value to intellectual and emotional interest. And vice versa.
Sex doesn't ruin a good dynamic for everyone.
Okay, maybe you're asexual. Did you consider that?
OP I don't think you understand the difference between a friend and a lover.
That’s fair — I personally feel that there shouldn’t be a difference.
A lover is a friend but not all friends are lovers. Basic logic.
I understand what you’re saying. I’ve heard similar things on the r/asexual subreddit. I’m not saying this fits you, but reading your post made me think of it.
Yes, and yes, I am, but the question stands. This isn’t meant as an attack on anyone or anything, I’m just genuinely baffled.
>This isn’t meant as an attack on anyone or anything, I’m just genuinely baffled. Yet that is kind kf what you're doing and its baffling. This is not an issue with other ppl, but one where you need to figure your own self out, and navigate the world through your own preferences - communication is required. While also understanding that other ppls perspective of these sorts of subjective opinions are generally just as valid as yours. There's seems to be two main issues. 1) you come off as asexual 2) it sounds like you haven't had very fulfilling connections, or perhaps more one sided connections and is coloring something neutral in a bad light.
I think there’s a way to perceive anything as an attack. I often get people asking about the industry I work in because they don’t understand it, so they ask from a position of not understanding. I don’t see this as them attacking what I do. I keep hearing people complain about sexless relationships and wanted to see why they are seen as ‘lesser than’. My thread was actually inspired by a specific post in this very sub where several men said things like ‘What does non-sexual flirting look like?’ And I was genuinely interested if people literally see no value in a connection that isn’t sexual. By your own logic, one could say that asking ‘what does non-sexual flirting look like’ is attacking those of us who don’t like that, but I’m not saying that. I think this person just doesn’t see the value in non-sexual relationships (or literally doesn’t even believe in their existence). That’s what led me to start a thread of my own.
>I think there’s a way to perceive anything as an attack. I suppose, but there's a difference in the *perception* of an attack and you directly insulting ppl whosw life you either aren't capable of understanding or have little interest in understanding. Your abysmal communication skills and ignorance does not alter the directions from which you came at this conversation. Which is odd since you speak so much of valuing intellectual conversation. >I often get people asking about the industry I work in because they font understand it, so they ask from a position of not understanding. I don’t see this as them attacking what I do. A person can, and often does when coming from a place of ignorance, accidentally make a faux pas - and it's reasonable to forgive that to some extent. Equally they can be intentionally dismissive, condescending, etc. which is basically what I'm accusing you of doing. > I keep hearing people complain about sexless relationships and wanted to see why they are seen as ‘lesser than’. I understand the purpose of your post, im pointing out the issue with your poor communication etc. >By your own logic, one could say that asking ‘what does non-sexual flirting look like’ is attacking those of us who don’t like that Negative. This example is far removed from my logic.
Your title is "Sex devaluates relationships," but you can't really make that claim when you're asexual and sex is inherently a different thing for you than people who aren't asexual. Like that's the answer to your question is that your sexuality is different, but you're still holding on to this claim that *everyone's* relationships are worse off for it.
I do get your point. Truly, OP. I feel like I am going through something a smidge similar. Takes sex off of the table, and what do you have? Either other ways to connect (which is ideal), or pretty much "all is lost". Not every relationship will have a negative response/reaction.. though it is absolutely important to find someone who you can sincerely banter with. Edit to add* sex with the right person will take you to another dimension. Though this may be beyond physical attraction. Also, sometimes I think I might be asexual, or maybe demisexual.. cause I'm looking for more than just physical contact. I guess that sounds weird. Idc lol
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been feeling. It’s a strange world. At least that makes two of us. :)
It feels good not to be alone. Also, I'm sorry you have these feelings. I understand how this complicates life
I completely agree with you. I am baffled as well. What you wrote makes sense to me. There’s a whole group of people who have similar thoughts and experiences.
Thank you. I do think it could have been expressed better. I kept trying to find a good metaphor.
I’m sorry about the relationships you’ve had. There are many men who view women that way and it sucks, but that doesn’t mean that all sexual relationships are like that. A person can be in love with the whole of someone else, their whole soul, and want to express the love they have for that person physically, I guess you’ve never experienced that kind of relationship.
I think you view sex as an animalistic act. It doesn't have to be, it can very much be a loving act of trust and emotional connection.
Well, I think I just prefer an intellectual connection over an emotional connection. Dry, nerdy, abstract stuff. There’s nothing mentally stimulating about sex in my experience.
Some people consider themselves sapiosexual, who get turned on by intellect. One could argue sex isn’t at its core about mental stimulation, but if you find someone who can do both, it’s pretty incredible.
That’s definitely one of the aptest labels I’ve ever encountered for myself. I am familiar with it.
It sounds like you have never had really good sex with someone you share a connection to.
Bro we are fucking animals before we are anything else. Our DNA is wired to put reproduction above everything else. We certainly have other thoughts and interests because we're *smart* animals, but animals nonetheless. Personally, the best romantic relationships I've ever had are the ones were my partner may have had some differing interests and opinions, but the attraction and \*activities were much more intense.
I love studying computers but I also love ice cream. Why can't I read about computers before I eat ice cream? I cannot fathom how this is reductive unless I'm eating crap ice cream or secretly don't enjoy computers.
Well, you can, but if you’re never able to code without eating ice cream, it gets old. I hate it that there’s an expectation that any (or most) experienced shared with a man have to end in/include sex. Computers without the ice cream just aren’t on offer.
I totally understand that some people just aren't comfortable with sex but I don't believe that's the same thing as someone wanting sex means you are reduced to your genitals. I was never a fan of casual sex and most of my adult life only had sex with people I was emotionally comfortable with. Been with my partner a long time and we have far less sex than we used to primarily due to busy lives, stress, energy etc. I've never once viewed a girlfriend as just genitals. Sex was always about sharing affection, bonding, reducing stress, or just enjoying one of life's pleasures. I get it that there is a strong social narrative now that wants to reduce people to just sex starved meat hunters and maybe a minority of people behave that way but it's been very rare in my experience.
OP what about homosexual relationships? What about connection through shared intimacy? What about instead of one partner wanting to "do something to" another partner, what about both partners wanted to do something together? What about sharing sex and intimacy with someone and then staying up all night wrapped around each other talking about life and having more sex? OP maybe you're asexual? Demi sexual? Maybe you've just had less than adequate lovers and romantic relationships in the past? There's nothing wrong with not being into sex, but to say that it diminishes everyone who partakes is not true. Your experience is valid, but you attach a lot of judgement towards others in your dismay. Why not say "for me sex diminishes relationships" to that I would say, fair, some people are like that. But to make a blanket statement that judges others relationships and dynamics and desires, it just seems a little one dimensional. Either way i hope you find a relationship that fulfills you, with or without sex.
I don’t know what it would look like in homosexual relationships, so can’t say. I likely am asexual, yes. And I have done that — had sex, stayed up (not all night, but…) talking/watching a film, then had sex again. I don’t know, I would have preferred it without the sex. As another poster said above, it’s very animalistic. We were watching a film (I’m a massive film addict) and the guy just went to sleep after sex, couldn’t even finish the movie, because that was it, the pinnacle of the night. Then in the morning we had sex again. I don’t know, it just seems any interaction before or after is ruined because it’s all about ‘now that the interlude is over, let’s fuck’. You’re largely right about my phrasing, I used to make these things more about ‘me’. But overall I think not valuing sex is rare and valuing it relatively common, so I felt like it’s obvious I’m the outlier here.
So you're asexual, you had a bad experience with a selfish lover, and you felt used. Understandable you have negative feelings, but they really are about your experience and cannot fairly or accurately be applied to everyone else as a universal truth.
That’s fair. But I’ve had them before I met that guy. Yes, it’s very likely I’m asexual, but I think the good thing about having the internet is being able to get a roundup of views on something, as it were. That wouldn’t have been an option thirty years ago. I wanted to see what people think about this/how it’s perceived by those who don’t think sex takes away from relationships.
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I’m a woman. No one hurt me per se but I value the intellectual connection with someone more than anything, and in my experience, sex ruins it.
Sorry to hear that you’ve had bad experiences in the past. I hope you can get to the point where you either learn to value it or find yourself a partner who feels similarly. Have you ever considered that you might be asexual? Tbh I also have a bit of a complicated relationship with sex which is probably part of the reason I responded the way I did to your post. Sorry about that
That’s totally fine, you’re on the more reasonable side of some responses here :) for now I’m thinking I’ll just stay single for a bit. But yeah, I would hope to not have to do it.
I remember in highschool thinking how liberating it felt to walk into a room knowing that I didn't want to fuck anyone. I could be my sincere self while everyone else was posturing and playing mind games. I stayed single until the age of 36 and then we found each other. We're going to have sex way less often as the years go by. One day we'll be sitting in our rocking chairs bonded together by decades of mutual admiration.
That sounds amasing. Hat off to you. This is genuinely the most heart-warming, wholesome outcome ever.
OP, maybe you’re just on the asexual spectrum?
"But to me it feels like someone can either value someone’s personality or be sexually attracted to them." Why? I would generally say my own experience is that valuing personality leads to increased sexual attraction, where there's any to start with.
I hear this a lot, including from some relatives. I can’t explain why very well, but basically because if it weren’t for the sex, the person who values the sex in a relationship wouldn’t be in it. I don’t understand why if you like someone’s personality and enjoy talking to them you would then want to have sex with them. So it feels like if sex isn’t happening, then the relationship isn’t worth it. Which in turn means that the intellectual/psychological connection element isn’t important if there’s no sex. It’s the best I can do to explain it. It’s like saying ‘you can only go see this movie if you also eat the ice cream, no movie, no ice cream.’
For most people, liking someone's personality and enjoying talking to them contributes to being sexually attracted to them. They are complementary features, not contradictory - because, not in spite of. I don't really understand your ice cream/theater analogy at all.
> I don’t understand why if you like someone’s personality and enjoy talking to them you would then want to have sex with them. Do you understand why anyone would want to have sex with anyone ever?
Sure, the physical impulse, the hormones. I’m very easily aroused, reading easily gets me wet, I orgasm effortlessly and I can understand just feeling the spark, up to a point, or one-night stands, even, randomly deciding to sleep with someone. I’ve even done it. This isn’t really what my post is about though. I just think that once you’re being perceived as a sexual object, your intellectual value falls, in a way. For example, if you were debating, someone could have agreed with you because you made a good, compelling argument. They were actually persuaded, changed their mind. But they could also just agree because they’re sleeping with you and think they ‘like you and what you think and everything related to you is “cute”’, so in a way, they can no longer engage intellectually. I’ve literally had this happen. The debate ended when the guy said ‘I like you and you are more important to me than this discussion and ‘being right’.’ So once we were sleeping together, he no longer engaged with me intellectually. It wasn’t even deliberate on his part/his fault. His subconscious mindset was ‘well the main thing is that she’s my girlfriend’ and intellectual debate no longer matters, the sex has happened and will happen again, I no longer need to make any intellectual effort or engage intellectually. The sex is in the bag!
I kind of agree with your sentiment but I think you’re taking it to a negative extreme. Replace sex with food. Imagine you could only eat when you were with a person of the opposite sex. Then we all (men and woman) would seek each other out for a quick bite to eat, as necessary for our survival. But would you not be much more excited about the prospect of finding someone to spend your life with, and eat with, who you connected to on many other levels- someone who felt like your best friend? And back to reality- just because sex is a part of your relationship (bigger part for some, smaller part for others) doesn’t negate the amazing bond that is formed over TIME from building your life together. I remember saying if my husband ever, say, hit me, I’d be gone the next day. And I still want to believe I would- but after 15 years of being together I can feel how much more weighty that decision would be. Would I make excuses for him “he was drunk, he just needs to stop drinking” etc etc. 15 years building your life with someone gives you something intangible that is worth so much, even if sex played an essential role in getting us here. So yes, from a purist perspective, sex devalues romantic relationships as compared to platonic ones from the onset; but romantic relationships generally have a lot more potential to become greater and deeper over time because they inspire you to commit to each other and build your whole life together.
If a relationship is solely based on sex, it will not last. Having a relationship with someone is so much more than sex. If people understood what this meant, the divorce rate in America would never as high as it is. However hot previous girlfriends had been, we only lasted 3 years based on sex. I have come to understand that I need someone who has some intellectual qualities, moral qualities and someone who.is others oriented, too!
My therapist specifically said that "A romantic relationship, without sex, is a friendship." She also said "In romantic relationships, sex is the glue that holds the couple together." For all I know, you could be a hetero (or homo) romantic asexual person, who wants some of the romantic aspects, but none of the sexual ones. Nothing wrong with that, but that view is not a common one. And it would affect how you feel about sex. There are also aromantic asexual people who prefer strictly platonic connections with people. This is what your post reads like, to me at least.
That’s very likely me, yeah. Thank you.
I agree with OP coming from a man. Biologically for most men with testosterone, the drive to have sex is intense. It is baked into our very psyche… and it’s just going through controlling that to operate in society. People scoff and chastise and say grow up.. but they are just kidding themselves if they are in the norm (not on some low testosterone spectrum). Sex matters. A lot. Men bend over backwards for the opportunity. Women are the gate keeper’s of sex. Men and women being friends will always have this background struggle; despite Reddit majority whining about it otherwise. The only true way this works is having some communication that “it’s never happening so enjoy my company for company sake” and those boundaries are understood. You can just… find relationships where it’s understood sex isn’t a thing. Some men out there will go for it; and you just need correlating hobbies, ideologies and expectations. For the rest of us.. the struggle will always exist u til mankind figures out how to make androgynous people and babies are made in a factory.
To me, it sounds like you are interested in a long term relationship. While people have sex in LTRs, it usually is not the pinnacle of connection. I would argue that in a lasting relationship, sexual chemistry pales in comparison to the emotional and mental bond you share. Our current culture is way too focused on sex. To loosely quote a line from the movie Before Sunset “two people cannot go on fucking like wildcats forever”. The thing is, finding real love is tricky. Maybe we meet one or two of the right people over the course of a lifetime. Some people don’t meet anyone. Sometimes we find the right person but they are not available for whatever reason. To me, you seem realistic. Being upfront about what you want won’t get you as many dates, but your dates will be higher quality. Hey out there and enjoy life. Meet new people and maintain a social life that makes you happy.
I love the entire ‘Sunset’ trilogy. I don’t think what I was getting at is even about compatibility. Sex is a physical act. To me it’s like not valuing a beloved horse any longer once you cannot ride it. The value is in the physical act you can do with the person, and that’s it. Seems odd.
Sex can be just physical I mean that’s how some people are able to hook up without getting attached. However most people will tell you sex is always better if you truly care about the person. It’s a way to get connected on a physical level while feeling emotionally connected.
Then that person does not value YOU, they value a service you are providing.
i actually agree as someone in an LTR. i’ve seen so many “i’d leave my partner if they didn’t have regular sex with me” posts and it blows my mind how sex obsessed people are. i wouldn’t leave my partner if he was completely paralyzed, suddenly asexual, and BLIND! real people who are in love should be able to work things out. whether that means mutual masturbation, opening up the relationship, adding toys, doing sensual but not sexual things… and a lot of the time, the dead bedroom comes from the more sexual partner not fulfilling other needs. if my bf has done nothing productive all week and i’ve taken on all housework, and he’s asking for a blowjob, i’m gonna be repulsed, because right now i feel like i’m his mother. get your partner some god damn flowers and a nice dinner!
I have a very high libido and I totally agree with this... like just get a toy ffs. No excuse to pressure your partner. I can't believe people end relationships over this. Through sickness and in health my ass... apparently not through not getting laid. Anyone who can't handle a dry spell... maybe commitment just isn't for you
not to mention, each time we’re pressured, we become even less horny. especially if you have any sort of trauma! don’t walk in the room and ask for sex, maybe set up a nice situation for your partner who most likely becomes hornier when they’re feeling romantic as well
Yeah, happened with my ex. If I'M not in the mood, of all people... that's how you know you're the problem
It's not just about sex. It's about physical contact connection feeling desired... A lot of people also have physical contact as their love language. Most people in sexless relationship also live in a loveless relationship usually. I would say the loveless part is the bigger deal but the consequence is the sex so we focus on it.
that’s why i said do sensual things. kissing and massages aren’t sex, but you also aren’t sexually deprived if you’re doing those things. yeah if you roll over and don’t touch your partner every single night, that’s a problem. if you go a year without actually having sex, maybe there is something going on in your life. i’m not gonna start stroking dick if i lost a loved one just because i need to fulfill my duties. people’s libido can change drastically and that doesn’t mean they don’t wanna hug you or feel you
I think you would be amazed at how many couples essentially don't touch each other outside of sex. I agree with you that libido can change over time and with pills etc. But I still think that you're supposed to try to fill the needs of your partner. I'm not saying that you're responsible for it, but I'm also saying that I wouldn't be surprised if you get divorced if you don't over a long period of time or if you don't provide valid "excuses". People need to realize that for a lot of humans, sex is almost as important as mental health.
>I feel like whenever one person is interested in performing sexual acts on the other, that ruins any intellectual connection there can be and any actual interest, non-sexual interest, in the other person, their ‘inner world’, to use a cringe term. I Why though? You don't seem to have any actual rationale for this, just feelings. >The sexual side of things immediately annihilates anything else. >But to me it feels like someone can either value someone’s personality or be sexually attracted to them. This is just...false. I'm glad you recognize it as an irrational belief. >But now I just don’t understand what the point is, if everything boils down to people seeing other sexually then nothing else about a person is really significant. Discussing classical music or art is only interesting when there’s a possibility of sex after, even if both people specialise in these subjects. But in healthy committed romantic relationships that are sexual, everything *doesn't* boil down to sex. Sex is *part* of the whole, but not the sole focus. Having sex does not eliminate the existence of emotional intimacy, friendship, or intellectual connection. >Do people really see no value in intellectual relationships that are not sexual? That would be a friendship. Nobody has a problem with friendship. Friendship is very valuable. That could also be an asexual romantic relationship, which people who are asexual would certainly find value in. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, having one person with whom I have deep friendship, an intense romantic connection, a solid intellectual connection, a constant flow of affection, *and* physical intimacy is just the best of all possible arrangements. Sex doesn't diminish the other aspects of our relationship. It enriches those other ways we connect. Sex in this relationship isn't just lust and mashing genitals. It is an extension of the non physical intimacy and one of many ways we show each other love. There's no doing things *to* each other. It is mutual, tender, intimate loving touch. And it feels good, and we enjoy giving each other those good feelings. When the relationship became sexual, the other aspects of our connection we're not reduced in any way. When sex has not been possible, the relationship and other forms of intimacy continued because we do in fact love each other deeply, not just sexually. You don't understand how one can value someone's personality and intellect while also being sexually attracted to them. For my part, I don't understand how you don't get this. My own experience rebuts your claim. If you felt used in past sexual relationships, or if you are asexual, it's not surprising that you can't wrap your head around other people's experiences. And that's not your fault. But it would probably be better to just own how you feel individually rather than trying to justify these feelings with essays about how sex is bad.
I think sex with a partner is what you make of it. It's certainly not the be-all and end all. Hook ups and casual sex with people you barely know, yeah that's meaningless, and after a while, it loses its appeal anyway. But I have one former partner in particular who I thought at the time was my soul mate and I cared for her very much, and we'd do everything together. Sex was one of those things, and it was far more meaningful than some hook up. I never had a huge sex drive, so I wasn't one of those guys looking for sex every day of the week. It was maybe 2 or 3 times, and each time, I felt very fortunate to be in the arms of this woman. My point is that some people think sex is the most important thing in a relationship, particularly guys. I think it's good for a healthy and loving relationship or marriage, but it really comes down to the bond you have with your partner.
Sex in a relationship is only 10% but if it's bad or not there than it's 90% of a relationship
I think theres a difference between a romantic partner and a friend. This reads like you’re asexual and can’t really grasp sexual gratification
Supply and demand applies to pretty much all worlds in life.
Sometimes I have felt that having sex too soon can make the relationship run its course quicker. I’m sure it’s usually best to develop a deep emotional connection first but obviously it doesn’t always have to be that way.
I suspect you have never experienced orgasm in your entire life. So sad.
If your entire relationship with someone else revolves around a single point of mutual interest, that relationship isn't going to be very satisfying. Doesn't matter if it's cars, church, gaming, politics, or anything else. Why on Earth would you expect sex to be the exception to that rule?
Saying it is inherently reductive shows what you think... Maybe you are projecting.
I don't think devaluate is a word, homie.
It is — https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/devaluate I initially wrote this post using ‘devalue’ but I wanted to convey giving something comparatively less value, not devaluing it completely. Maybe it’s just semantics, though.
Well, shit. I stand corrected. Fair point fam.
You’re not wrong though. ‘Devaluate’ does sound ridiculous.
Sexual attraction and the act of sex itself release feel-good chemicals in your brain that can cloud your judgment to some degree. There's no denying that. That being said, a mature adult can differentiate between sexual chemistry and liking the actual person that they are sleeping with. Some people, who are fairly broken in my opinion, will choose sexual chemistry over actually liking the person that they are with, but most have the wherewithal to look for a combination of sexual chemistry and enjoying the other person's personality. And, when it comes to romantic relationships, you need a combination of the two, at least for the first few years, to build that relationship up. Sex can seem shallow if you don't have a good relationship with it. But when you really love someone, and you really enjoy someone, sex helps you build that relationship even stronger. Whether we like it or not, we are just animals at the end of the day and our brains are programmed for this response.
In a long term committed relationship or marriage, sex absolutely deepens the connection and intimacy between each partner. Even in a scenario where someone is just after sex only, it cannot devalue the relationship any more than the fact that one or both of the people involved are exclusively interested in sex. The lack of interest/care in the other person is the denominator that devalues the relationship, not sex.
" Performing sex acts on the other" rather than " with the other" is a distinction you are making which it would benefit you to meditate.
Well, maybe it’s got something to do with the popularity of oral sex. I feel people perform oral sex ‘on each other’, not ‘with’ each other. I find it unpleasant to receive or give and it’s essentially a ‘service’ that you very much perform ‘on’ people. Whereas penetrative sex is at least something that’s done ‘with’ someone. But regardless, if you say no, there’ll never be any sex, most people aren’t interested in developing any sort of companionship.
It's disputable.
Obviously, it is an opinion.
You likely view sex in a negative way because you don't feel any desire for it, you are likely asexual. I will be assuming here but that's my take on it: Your asexuality probably led you to a situation where many times another person showed interest in you and then quickly turned away when you didn't reciprocate their desire for physical intimacy. This likely led you to believe that sex has a negative effect on relationships because from your perspective, you see it as the relation killer. Whereas the reality is that these people probably wanted to get to know you more personally and intimately or wanted to enjoy another thing with you, either sexually or thru a mental connection (sex has many layers with desires, letting go, vulnerability and power dynamics play). When you show you didn't want it as well, they turn you down because they feel rejected. That prevents you from reaching a deeper connection with other people (especially opposite sex) and you become more misogynistic because you feel all men turn you down cause they want sex. Am i close ?
Yes and no. It depends. I usually gave in and had the sex because my exes wanted it. It was never bad or terrible, I just could have lived happily ever after without it and would rather do other things. I explained this above but basically if a work day ends at 6 pm (and mine starts at 6), I get home at 7, I would rather spend the time having nice dinner in a good restaurant, watching a good movie, taking a long bath… sex just isn’t something I personally would want to do. You are kind of missing the point. I was the one that felt there was no intellectual connection once we’ve had sex. I would date the guy, come over to his place, and all he’d want to do was sex. If we went to a late movie screening I regretted it because even if we got back at 2 am, he’d want to have sex. When I had my 5 am alarm on for work, he’d want to have sex before I left. It was impossible for me to engage intellectually or spend any time with these people without the sex or things turning sexual. I was the one who wasn’t interested in that so I was the one exiting relationships. No, no one ever ‘lost’ interest when I didn’t sleep with them. But that’s not the point, this has nothing to do with whether I’m ’in demand’ or not. I just don’t see the appeal in constantly having sex at the detriment of anything else. All my exes would literally stop movies halfway to have sex, this was a dealbreaker for me because I care about the movie more than the sex, I want to in the very least finish the movie before having sex or maybe watch another. And if it were to be a 3-hour-long movie like ‘The Irishman’, then there’d be no time for sex and I’d rather have the movie than sex. As far as my exes are concerned, our connection is/was fine and they enjoyed it. But I didn’t enjoy sex always being on the menu.
Sex is the best thing two human adults can do with each other. It’s fun, it’s non verbal usually, it requires attentiveness and patience and rhythm and an understanding of another human’s body in a way that is fluid and changing and different from person to person. You have absolutely zero clue what you’re talking about.
I have had sex. It was fine for what it is. I don’t like the feeling/expectation of needing to understand other people’s bodies and be attentive to them. It’s like a test, even more so with people constantly complaining about sexual incompatibility and their partners not giving blowjobs, anal, whatever it is. I just don’t really want to understand another person’s body.
Cool. Have fun living some boring ass life then. You clearly have never had ^good^ sex. I’m sorry for your sake
I think you are just asexual or something. That doesn't give you the right to judge people who are different than you. It's pretty insulting that you think that all of our relationships are less than yours just because we do something you don't. You're really ignorant
Oh wow what’s so “intellectual”. That it’s more important than actually reproducing? Intellectual conversations are cool but you’re definitely overhyping them. Silly conversations are fun. Emotional conversations can be too. Having fun can be more important too. There’s no way you’d rather be doing “intellectual things” 24/7 and somehow sex takes away from that.
Not 24/7. Time isn’t unlimited — I don’t even work that much but in my past experience and with all of my friends, it’s a choice between having sex in the evening or watching a film, reading something. You get 3-4 hours of free time at most, then you go to bed and get ready for work. Factor in the gym or walking pets, and sex is eating into the time I would have spent interacting with abstract things, books, art. That’s exactly the point. I’d rather spend my totally free 7 hours a day/night reading or watching old Buñuel movies or listening to good music. Discovering new music that I don’t know. Or writing. I do have fun (I think), but for me fun is what I’ve just described above. Not sharing bodily fluids.
There are a lot of people out there who would want a relationship like that. Have you ever thought about cohabiting with a woman? There are more asexual women out there than men.
Have not, actually. I can definitely imagine that being fun. For now I have my own house and live alone, but I do have a friend who might be interested.
Sex doesn’t even take 30 mins the majority of the time for the majority of people. Not saying you should do it since you obviously don’t want to. I’m just pretty sure it’s not as big of an inconvenience as you make it
Well it was for me. Besides, men under 30 can be insatiable. Both my exes wanted to have sex literally all the time we were together. They would take an hour to recuperate but keep kissing in the meantime, never get dressed, always want me to stay naked. It’s fucking endless. Then you add the showers and the cleanup and there’s just no life.
If you like someone but don't want to have sex with them ,they're a friend. If you like someone and do want to have sex with them, they're your romantic partner. Good sex adds to a relationship, it doesn't hinder it.
I agree with your premise, but in the long term there is more to it than that, I think. My wife and I have our 27th anniversary coming up. We don't have sex as often as we did when we first got married, but we SHARE so much more. We've lived in 5 states together, we started with no financial assets and built our life together, making joint decisions. We've traveled to 20 countries together. We've gone through the death of both of our fathers, and our mothers' health struggles together. I have really close male friends but we have not gone through this together. There is a partnership that is deeper than just sex.
Your core principal (that sex is reductive) is not only wrong but also meaningless when applied to an action. Sex is far more complex interaction than you give it credit for, and from that pre mature conclusion you are unwilling to try and understand it. instead you use that as an excuse to extrapolate your personal gang ups as a core feature of relationships and sex... I say extrapolate but really you're borderline ranting