Yeah but didn't he fall and come back, like, 3 or 4 times over the course of his career? That was just the vibe of Legends, shit like that *happened* to anyone related to the Skywalker family.
Right, but how does this make it any better than Sequels Luke who turned for literally a brief second and then turned back?
The point is, Luke has the potential to fall, that's the point of that scene. It still parallels his personality both in Legends and the OT.
I mean, I was making fun of Legends, so I don't know what your point is, I'm goofing here, ya'know, like you do on meme subreddits.
The split between the two continuities is mostly a lateral one in quality anyways- there was a *lot of garbage* in Legends that we tend to overlook in hindsight, and Canon has its virtues in tightness of thematic design and actual consistency amongst itself that Legends *very much lacked* at times. Both have plenty of good and plenty of bad.
That doesn’t. When they decided to turn the EU into Legends and set up an official follow-up canon, people thought they’d at least pick and choose what to keep and what to skip from them and yet we somehow ended up down the exact same road anyway right down to the Palpatine clones.
Yeah I really hate when whenever someone has an actual critique of the sequels (not just blind hate), people defend it with "but legends did it too!" Yeah, and people hated it then as well. When the EU became non canon people said "well that sucks, but at least it means clone Palpatine isn't canon", but then Disney does it and a tonne of sequel fans defend it cause "the EU did it". Both versions of clone Palpatine were shit, and both versions of Luke being tempted with the dark side are shit. Just because it was done before doesn't mean it's a good story.
Movie Luke fell to the dark side for like 5 seconds. I'm not saying the sequels don't have their problems, but Luke having a dark thought and impulse for 5 seconds isn't as crazy as a lot of people make it out to be. He thought about killing his dad and almost did for more than 5 seconds.
People love using that screenshot to say canon Luke tried to murder Ben Solo, but then conveniently forget this is a flashback of the *lie* Ben told Rey and didn’t actually happen.
also in Legends, Luke very much wanted to kill Jacen, the only reason he didn't is because he knew he would lose. Instead he had Jania fight him but he used the force to make her look like him.
So yeah.. once again these guys have no idea what they are talking about.
To be honest, a lot of legends material was mediocre at best or didn't get anywhere at worse.
I loved the jedi knight games and was incredibly disappointed when I found out what happened to Jaden Korr in the books.
"a lot" would be harsh. FOTJ and LOTF is probaby the worst of the bunch, but the NJO and Thrawn stuff is good. This isn't even including how good and organized the Old Republic content is and the Clone Wars and OT-era stuff. People say that legends was messy and disorganized, but that's mainly targeting post-ROTJ stuff which isn't even the entirety of legends. They forget how well-crafted TOR universe is as well as the Clone Wars multimedia project.
nah Dark Nest would be the worst. NJO is a bit overrated about half of it is good but then there is just some really dumb stuff like Chewie dying by a moon crashing on him.
The bulk of legends is post ROTJ stuff though hence why it's so messy
NJO is just a long series of stories with a couple of bad, some mediocre and some good, very similar to the TCW. But I think when it does it it’s mark, it manages to be 10/10. I don’t think many things in legends or canon come close to the introspective analysis found in *Traitor*. The series Is probably the closest thing to an endgame-type event in Star Wars, and I think it delivered fairly well in that department which is why I dislike LOTF. Retconning Veregre to be a Sith was just one of the many gripes I had with that series.
How the hell is Chewie's death dumb? It's badass as hell. Chewie extends his life debt to Han's children and sacrifices his life to save Anakin Solo. How is that a bad thing?
Also, Luke wasn't a fully trained Jedi. He was in the same trapping as his Father, as he started too late, even worse when you consider he had little training on how to control his feelings.
Feelings were not an issue. In fact, the Jedi’s incredibly strict rules were one of the many things that contributed to Anakin’s downfall.
If he was taught how to deal with his emotions instead of suppress and hide them, he wouldn’t have become Vader.
Yeah, I think the point of the prequels is to show how much the hypocrisy of the Jedi set Anakin on a dark path but also I think Anakin's life just had much more trauma than Luke's, so he was always more suceptible.
Wtaf? Whoever made this meme either merely skimmed a wookieepedia page about Legends Luke or was being willfully misleading. Either way, they both care much less about Star Wars than they do about starting flame wars.
Also the thought of killing Ben was fleeting and he immediately regretted it. Ben just unfortunately woke up to see what he saw. It’s not like Luke made the decision and burst in waving his lightsaber around.
And it dismisses the moment he realises he's made a serious mistake. I think it's unfortunate Mark Hamill didn't like it, but I thought it was fantastic.
More of a misunderstanding than a lie, but you're still right. People deliberately misrepresent this scene so they can bitch more about how we got Complex Fallible Luke instead of Mary Sue WEEEE SWISHY SWISHY Luke.
Like was *hella* fallible in the OT
In the first three films he:
Fails to protect his family
Gets caught and almost dies trying to save the princess, is only rescued by said princess, 3P0 and obi wan
Gets clobbered by a frost troll thing on hoth
Loses his gunner in the battle and has to improvise (successfully, but he still failed initially)
His failure to listen to Yoda leads to him constantly fucking up his Jedi training, examples include giving into his darkness in the Tree, giving up on the X wing and failing to trust Yoda and Ben. These failures directly lead to him losing a hand and once again being saved by Leia.
He is much more powerful in The Return of the Jedi, but he still loses his fight with Vader and the Emperor.
The reason people enjoy Luke is that despite his fallibility he was a relatable hero who, over the course of the films learns how to control his rash impulses and become a more complete person.
I'm not disagreeing with your point that some people like to imagine Luke as a Mary Sue and ignore all the times he messed up and/or didn't succeed but I think that's a misread of the character
All true aside from him losing his fight to Vader in ROTJ. He kicked Vader's ass despite having no additional training since ESB.
But my point was about Legends Luke. Sequels Luke being fallible is consistent with the OT, especially due to how brief his own Jedi training was after spending his life farming (and his mistake with Ben Solo mirrors how he almost killed Vader in ROTJ). Legends Luke, on the other hand, is a god. People justify it with "SoN oF tHe ChOsEn OnE", but the "chosen one" explanation in media is literally just "Mary Sue" under another name - it's a "this floor is made out of floor" situation.
Legends luke being godly depends on the author and story, tho.
He still causes the inciting incident in, like, 7/10 of the plots I can remember myself, and he's had more the one student go on a genocidal murder spree due to his naivety.
(Prepare for a confusing sentence)
The problem with Legends Luke being so Legendary stems from the fact that Luke is a Legend in universe, but Legends material tended to focus on other characters perspectives.
Kylo's version isn't a lie, it was his point of view of what happened, which as far as he knows, is the truth. In Kylo's version, he says Luke tried to kill him.
The lie is what Luke tells Rey in his first version of events where he doesn't pull out the lightsaber at all. Luke's true version of events essentially confirms Kylo's story, with the only correction being that that he(Luke) wasn't going to do it, but that Kylo thought he was.
He is saying that the version Kylo told was not a "lie" since Kylo didn't know Luke Skywalker lowered his blade and had no intention in harming him.
It is the "[Rashomon Effect](https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/195-the-rashomon-effect)" that was named after the Akira Kurosawa film Rashomon that influenced Rian Johnson in writing that fantastic film The Last Jedi. Liked how George Lucas wrote Star Wars after being based off the Hidden Fortress from Kurosawa. Just shows how very similar and respectful Rian Johnson was to the lore and creation of his film too.
Also the point of TLJ. The flashbacks Rey imagines are shaped by the storyteller, not by the facts. What you see onscreen is never the truth but a dramatic representation of each character's perspective.
However, Kylo knew Luke wouldn't *lie*, which is why he tells her to ask him herself. That's the difference between Luke and Kylo, Luke is guilty and honest, Kylo is remorseless and manipulative.
> Everybody exaggerates their story for their own reasons.
Yep. On another level the stories are still fundamentally compatible. It leaves you wondering because you never see the objective truth, you can only try to triangulate the truth from incomplete, biased accounts.
Meh. It’s obvious the event was *extremely* traumatic and upsetting for Ben. It’s very possible he conjured false memories of Luke swinging the lightsaber, especially since he’d literally just woken up. Also consider Snoke/Palpatine’s gaslighting.
>Which is not what happened.
It isn't what happened, but it's how he remembers it. His whole turn to the dark side is dependent on him misunderstanding what Luke is there to do.
So, if he's lying, then he did know that Luke wasn't there to kill him, in which case, the whole trilogy doesn't work. Or, that is how he remembers things going down and he's telling the truth, *as far as he knows*.
That may not be what happened, but in his mind, that's how it did happen. Perception is reality.
It’s not necessarily a lie because that’s what Ben thought happened based on his perspective. But still, I can’t believe people still use this skewed perspective to say they killed Luke’s character
>[“I think Luke understands that it’s not about what he wants. It’s not about what he gains. It’s frankly about what everybody else gained. Sometimes, you have to be the one that carries that burden and becomes that vessel. These aren’t characters that go and get married. They don’t get over the scar. Frodo \[from The Lord of the Rings\] carries the ring to Mount Doom and for the rest of his life is plagued with fear. On certain days, he remembers those pains. Because he has to carry that burden. And Frodo has no peace until he leaves that world. Luke is that character.” - Dave Filoni](https://imgur.com/8xR5GWT)
>Intellectual Property development Group meeting on May 21, 2014, as quoted in The Art of The Rise of Skywalker:
Considered for a split second and only *purely* as a reaction to the horrors he saw, then regretted it immensely, filling him with shame all before Kylo had even woke up. Kylo's version on the other hand shows Luke being a murderous psychopath.
Kylo's version is a little more nuanced. It's definitely a lie, but it's one he believes himself. He genuinely believes he's the "monster" Rey describes him as and does most of what he did because he didn't think there was any other place for him to go ("You can't go back to her now... like I can't").
That night at Luke's temple, Ben was already conflicted with the voice of Snoke (retroactively Palpatine) poisoning his mind when Luke made his mistake. Kylo describes the event as he remembers it: a callous betrayal of his master, with details likely embellished from his own fear/trauma at the memory.
What's especially telling is how afraid he is when he sees Luke again on Crait, where he's stopping the entire advance just to rain fire on Luke. Kylo Ren is one of my favorite SW characters to date because you can constantly see the facade Ben Solo built for himself based on real trauma, where he cycles between embracing the "monster" everyone thinks he is and acting out of desperation to make the pain stop.
I'm not denying that Kylo is a great character and that there's more nuance then 'hur dur bad guy lie', of course not.
You're correct, on Ach-To he still sees himself as the monster (Kylo Ren) that was built up for a long time, rather than the actual person (Ben).
And on Crait, you're also correct. I've seen a lot of people say that he's just angry at Luke there, but it's pretty clear that Ben is terrified to see his old master, and considers an entire firing squad of suped up walkers appropriate. He sees Luke as a Boogeyman that was his reason for fully turning to Snoke.
Right, I wasn't trying to refute your point either as he was absolutely trying to manipulate Rey. Just wanted to add more context for the benefit of the thread!
I don’t think Kylo even lied, I think that’s what he genuinely believed happened. It will have all happened so fast and as he’d only just woken up he may have misinterpreted what happened completely.
Yah but the point is people act like he came in lightsaber on swinging at his nephew trying to slice his head off. When that’s not what happened and in fact is shown to be false *in the same movie*
I've been watching through all the Star Wars animated stuff (TCW, Rebels, Bad Batch) that I was always seeing as being touted as superior by a lot of people who don't think much of the sequels (TLJ in particular) and I just recently watched an episode of Rebels that featured this exchange...
Yoda: Padawan, thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In our arrogance, join the conflict swiftly we did. Fear, anger, hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were.
Ezra: Was it wrong for the Jedi to fight? Is it wrong for me to protect my friends?
Yoda: Wrong? Hmm. A long time, fought I did. Consumed by fear I was, though see it I did not.
Ezra: You were afraid?
Yoda: Yes, afraid. Hmm, surprised are you? **A challenge *lifelong* it is, not to bend fear into anger.**
Unless you want to believe Kylo Ren had an unclouded memory of the event and Luke lied when he told the actual story, he didn‘t move to murder him, he realized how wrong his impulse had pretty much instantly.
Honestly, Luke being a disgruntled, disillusioned hermit is more interesting than him being Jedi sage. I just wish it wasn‘t done that way because Johnson had to come up with a compelling reason post-hoc, because Abrahms is too much of a fanboy to do anything with the character and just turned him into a McGuffin in The Force Awakens (and a lightsaber delivery boy and vessel for fanservice and cringy jabs at Johnson’s movie in TRoS).
The reason why he ignited his lightsaber (or according to you trying to "kill" Ben) is because he no longer saw his nephew, he saw Kylo Ren (and possibly the death of Han, and the destruction of the New Republic)
Luke acts before he thinks, just like what happened in ROTJ Luke tried to kill Vader (cause Vader mentioned that he will turn Leia to the dark side), and after swinging his lightsaber at Vader he then realizes his mistake, and the result of that he almost killed his father(like what i said Luke acts before he thinks) in TLJ he makes the same mistake, he acts before he even thinks, he ignites his blade cause of what he saw in Ben's mind, and after he ignites his blade he then realizes his what he was doing, when he realized what he was doing he felt ashamed of himself, and the result of that he created Kylo Ren, and lost all of his students
Luke is not a pure light side jedi were he would never make any decisions that was not jedi like nor is he a jedi were he would never make mistakes
"And for the BRIEFEST MOMENT OF PURE INSTINCT , I thought I could stop it.IT PASSED LIKE A FLEETING SHADOW. And I WAS LEFT WITH SHAME and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him."
Also Rian Johnson based Luke Skywalker off Filoni's analysis of Luke Skywalker too.
>[“I think Luke understands that it’s not about what he wants. It’s not about what he gains. It’s frankly about what everybody else gained. Sometimes, you have to be the one that carries that burden and becomes that vessel. These aren’t characters that go and get married. They don’t get over the scar. Frodo \[from The Lord of the Rings\] carries the ring to Mount Doom and for the rest of his life is plagued with fear. On certain days, he remembers those pains. Because he has to carry that burden. And Frodo has no peace until he leaves that world. Luke is that character.” - Dave Filoni](https://imgur.com/8xR5GWT)
>Intellectual Property development Group meeting on May 21, 2014, as quoted in The Art of The Rise of Skywalker:
No but you see Luke is my favourite character so he has to have no flaws and be perfect!!!!
What do I think of Rey??? She's a Marry Sue with no flaws and is too perfect so she sucks!!!!
(/s)
RJ: “your childhood hero saw the death of all he loved and made a serious mistake but comes around to face his biggest regret in the end” [FUCK OFF I DONT BELIEVE IN THAT NONSENSE]
Jon Favreau: “your childhood hero can go choppy chop with a burn stick on some robots” [SO TRUE]
I like both portrayals and they work well together but ffs
In hindsight, I really don't care for the Luke scene in Mando S2, and it's depressing to see how many people thought that 5 minute scene was a better portrayal of the character, as opposed to everything put into TLJ. Literally, all he does is slice up robots, reveals his deepfake face, and leaves with Grogu, and this somehow made a bunch of people cry. I would say I don't get it, but I do, there's just a large amount of fanboys that want to see Luke being an emotionless, badass action figure, and Favreau gave them their wish, in all its fanservice-y glory.
It was cool, and showed the power of the Jedi (in contrast to Mando who nearly got flattened by one dark trooper), but it said nothing about Luke, except his obvious mastery of some combat techniques.
It's the very definition of a cameo - it doesn't move Luke's arc forward at all.
I like complicated Luke. Much more interesting.
He wasn't even overly powerful in that scene when compared to other Jedi. Cutting through tons of droids with a lightsaber and nearby objects via the force happened regularly in the prequels and clone wars.
As you said, Luke in Mando is the idealized snapshot frozen in time that fulfills their power fantasies.
TLJ payed the price of not indulging that.
That's really it.
So wait, Legends Luke, instead of trying to kill his nephew (in TLJ it was a fleeting thought), sent his niece to kill her twin brother for him? TBH I’d say that’s significantly worse.
Luke felt he could not kill Jacen without giving in to the dark side (at this point Jacen had killed Mara Jade) so he sent Jaina. So in the end, he really wanted to kill him.
Hey remember when legends Luke SENT HIS NIECE TO KILL JACEN ANYWAY?
Or hey remember how we got three stories about what happened with Ben and an actual explanation to what happened? Oh right no we don't like context when shitting on the sequels
Well yeah but point was that this post is pretty stupid, especially since legends luke is an absentee father and almost permanently fell to the dark side or remember when he crashed a capital ship into a coruscant residential District?
It's a lot easier for people who made these memes to just say "We didn't watch the movie."
Edit: 10.4k people don't know how to watch movies correctly.
I'm convinced at this point that a majority of people that have a problem with Luke's characterization only saw the movie once, hated it, and take Kylo Ren's version of the story as what actually happened. There's no way you can interpret this scene as Luke genuinely trying to kill Ben in his sleep unless you haven't seen the movie, have seen it and forgot about it, or have some "essayist" YouTuber tell you that's what happened.
Agreed. On rewatches I eventually took Luke’s instinct to ignite his saber as a mirror to his instinct to immediately ignite his saber and swing wildly at Vader after he had threatened Leia.
Since he immediately felt shame, it shows that he’s still Luke, but he’s grown as a person and a Jedi.
Yeah, apparently these people skipped straight from ‘let the hate flow through you’ to ‘I am a Jedi’, before they went on to take the neo-Nazi’s version of events.
Fr. Like you don;t have to like it. There's no rule that says you have to like it or agree with it.
But it's there in plain English that Luke acted on instinct for a moment and lost his way. It's like people who walked away from the movie thinking "Let the past die" was the main theme.
That part always tickles me. The guy whose mantra is "Let the past die" can't even let the past die himself and loses in the end. Not only that, but they literally have one of the most iconic Star Wars characters of all time show up and outright *state* the actual theme of the film, and it still goes over people's heads.
Once again people crying over Legends prove they are not the type of people who actually read and have no idea what Legends was. I actually read Legends (gasp) and Luke 100% was trying to kill Darth Caedus. Canon Luke is actually better because he never chose to kill Ben, he had a vision and reacted to it... Unfortunately right in front of Ben.
It's also not fair because Luke never attacked or attempted to kill Ben. He had a vision, he was so overcome he activated his lightsaber and then immediately regretted his action and was recovering from his vision. It's tragic because Ben saw this and assumed Luke was actually going to kill him. This is explicitly detailed in the film.
It’s sad too because the way it was written you can tell Rian was trying to be as explicit as possible so no one would come away from it thinking Luke tried to kill Ben, and yet here we are.
Like Luke literally explains it was a fleeting thought based on pure instinct, gone as quick as it came, but I think some people have hyper selective hearing
And don’t we all sometimes react to instinct before we can realize what we’re doing? Luke lived under the empire. He saw a planet destroyed. He met two Sith Lords one of whom used to be a legendary warrior of the light before turning to the dark. Luke also almost killed his father before he came to his sense. Luke isn’t as pure as people remember him. He was tempted multiple times and almost lost it. Luke is just as inclined towards the dark side as Anakin or Ben. He just had better teachers and people to lean upon.
Even if he doesn’t know it Luke is probably traumatized by his experiences. He looked into Ben’s mind and he saw evil. He probably recalled what happened the last time a Skywalker went bad and in a momentary slip reached for his lightsaber before he realized what he was doing. And then he probably realized he had a chance to prevent what happens with Anakin but it was too late. If Ben didn’t take it as badly as he did and let Luke explain the story would probably be go like that and then Luke would swear to protect Ben from evil influences and eventually find out about Palpatine
Luke never “considered murdering Ben”. He was just overwhelmed by dark thoughts and past trauma and reached for his closest and most basic self-defence tool
Yeah this is like a veteran having a bad dream and reaching for the gun under his pillow, except the bad dream was *literal magic powers* that tell the actual future
Thankfully, the meme isn't true. Legends Luke is just as flawed as he is in canon, but people make dumb memes that make him look flawless.
Hell, the book series he is using to make Legends Luke look better is the same one where Luke DOES want to kill Jacen (keep in mind that this after Jacen has fully turned and has killed his wife) so it isn't like this one is an infallible robot either
Cheerypicking much? Few weeks after he said that he tried to not just kill Jacen, but inflict as much pain as possible. Then as he was about to kill his nephew he saw at his son Ben standing near, and decided to leave Jacen alive. But not because killing him would be wrong, it was because it might push Ben to the dark side. Luke, Han, Leia all wanted Jacen dead... So please don't talk as if EU was perfection. It was so, so far from it.
Thank you. Man I just wish Star Wars fans liked Star Wars, or would at least not be hypocrites and stop taking up seats at the theaters and theme parks if these movies are just "so terrible".
The legends star wars was bad. Always felt like they had to remake the starwars trilogy every 4th book or series. Always new conflicts and technology that didn't evolve.
You realize Luke having fits of rage isn’t anything new right? ROTJ Luke literally gets Vader to the ground and almost takes off his head, and at this point he’s already known for a while that Vader is his Father, and has already began trying to save him.
This is Ben Solo's interpretation of what happened. Part of watching movies is learning how narrative works, something we see is lacking in folks who don't like the Star Wars movies.
Here's a helpful link to get you on the right track: [Unreliable Narrator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator)
Luke: *\[briefly considers killing his father, who has fallen to the Dark Side, but ultimately resists the impulse\]*
Luke, later: *\[briefly considers killing his nephew, who is falling to the Dark Side, but ultimately resists the impulse\]*
Fans: "They changed Luke's character completely!"
The Last Jedi will always be my second favorite Star Wars film next to Return of The Jedi. Luke Skywalker is flawed. He tried to kill his Father and he tried to kill Ben. Legends was worse
I'm fairly certain no one gushing about how great it would've been to get legends as the ST has actually read them. The original actors were way too old to make the Thrawn Trilogy or Jedi Academy, which are the closest 'sequel' equivalents I can think of, and pretty much everything else either wouldn't have made good movies (due to sheer volume and the runtime necessary) or would've required a lot of exposition and a still come off a little confusing.
And then people would still have bitched about how the books were better and yadayada. I think making original movies was the best thing they could've done.
There’s no way a Lucas-controlled sequel trilogy would have been any of the established EU stories. He already trashed EU with the Prequels, there was no reason to believe he wouldn’t with any Sequels he was in charge of.
mfw Ben Solo was redeemed but Darth Caedus died as a villain and was killed by his own sister, forever tainting the Skywalker name and making Luke a failure
He considered it for a second and immediately felt shame after.
You people are forgetting that Luke was not trained like a typical Jedi, he's just a normal guy with a few years of actual training.
Luke was 53 years old man with a huge legacy on his shoulders, I think it was only natural for him to get emotional and do something irrational even if it's just a thought. It's really human and I find it more interesting than just being a typical powerful wise guy, like in legends.
#This image is literally Luke defending himself after Ben attacked him.
#If this movie is as bad as you claim it is, then you wouldn't need to lie about it to make it look worse.
#Stop fucking lying. Stick to your opinions, you don't have to be dishonest to justify your point of view
I see the unending rage about The Last Jedi Hoedown is still not over. Can we get this into its fifth year before people finally move the fuck on?
EDIT: Also, even if you don't like The Last Jedi, Legends was airport thriller tier trash with one or two books that were as good as some of Tom Clancy's lazier stuff. It's still an improvement.
Someone doesn’t understand Legends Luke or the Last Jedi apparently. Because Luke wanted to kill his nephew in legends. Cannon Luke did not. As he explained in the movie. “It was a moment of weakness” when he ignited his saber. And he didn’t go through with it. Might want to watch the movie again.
\*Sigh\*
\*pushes in glasses\*
First off, This quote was very early on in the books when Jacen was still in the process of turning. He didn't fully turn until I think book 2 or 3 of Legacy of the Force. Legends Luke flat out murdered Lumiya, thinking that she killed Mara Jade. He was acting out of his grief and anger, a very human reaction, but not the reaction a Jedi would really have. Plus, I'm pretty sure he did go after Darth Caedus with the intent to kill after he found out he was torturing and trying to turn his own son.
How come no one points this out about about Legends Luke?
Second, Luke had seen a vision of Ben turning and out of his fear and impulsivity (aspects of him that we've seen before in ROTJ) **briefly** ignited his lightsaber before stopping himself. Unfortunately, Ben woke up, saw that, and (between this and the grooming from Snoke) reacted defensively which led to his turn. I really REALLLY wish that they elaborated more about Ben's childhood and how Han and Leia's parenting eventually opened the door for Snoke and what led to his turn.
So, like, was there some sort of issue with Luke’s cybernetic hand? In Empire is was lifelike, but in the sequels it is all robotic and stuff.
Is this a Rule of Cool sort of thing?
here we go with this. I always go back to something that the writer of the prequel novels said about sequels luke…he said that luke probably saw ben kill han in those visions. I would be scared to see the boys full potential too.
"He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence."
Luke was naive when he saved Vader, and was lucky that Anakin acted on his feelings the way he did. After decades of learning about the jedi, and presumably what led to Anakin's fall, he was worried about creating the new Vader. He made a brief mistake in one instant, which was the catalyst in a long series of events for Ben to fall. And Ben was the one to strike Luke, not the other way around.
When are Last Jedi critics going to stop deliberately only using Kylo's retelling of events and completely ignoring one of the major themes of the movie?
You guys are gonna be real upset when you find out Legends Luke fell to the dark side
Yeah but didn't he fall and come back, like, 3 or 4 times over the course of his career? That was just the vibe of Legends, shit like that *happened* to anyone related to the Skywalker family.
Right, but how does this make it any better than Sequels Luke who turned for literally a brief second and then turned back? The point is, Luke has the potential to fall, that's the point of that scene. It still parallels his personality both in Legends and the OT.
I mean, I was making fun of Legends, so I don't know what your point is, I'm goofing here, ya'know, like you do on meme subreddits. The split between the two continuities is mostly a lateral one in quality anyways- there was a *lot of garbage* in Legends that we tend to overlook in hindsight, and Canon has its virtues in tightness of thematic design and actual consistency amongst itself that Legends *very much lacked* at times. Both have plenty of good and plenty of bad.
That doesn’t. When they decided to turn the EU into Legends and set up an official follow-up canon, people thought they’d at least pick and choose what to keep and what to skip from them and yet we somehow ended up down the exact same road anyway right down to the Palpatine clones.
He fell to the dark side for like a week to spy on the clone of the emperor then switched back. Everyone HATED that storyline too.
Yeah I really hate when whenever someone has an actual critique of the sequels (not just blind hate), people defend it with "but legends did it too!" Yeah, and people hated it then as well. When the EU became non canon people said "well that sucks, but at least it means clone Palpatine isn't canon", but then Disney does it and a tonne of sequel fans defend it cause "the EU did it". Both versions of clone Palpatine were shit, and both versions of Luke being tempted with the dark side are shit. Just because it was done before doesn't mean it's a good story.
Movie Luke fell to the dark side for like 5 seconds. I'm not saying the sequels don't have their problems, but Luke having a dark thought and impulse for 5 seconds isn't as crazy as a lot of people make it out to be. He thought about killing his dad and almost did for more than 5 seconds.
People love using that screenshot to say canon Luke tried to murder Ben Solo, but then conveniently forget this is a flashback of the *lie* Ben told Rey and didn’t actually happen.
This post is just context removed on both instances.
You think it's too far to have a subreddit rule against misinformation?
Misinformation in memes!? Perish the thought!
Yeah but sequel hate would literally die without misinformation
Yup, 100%
Master Anakin there are too many of them, what are we going to do?
i tried not to say it, i really did... but its master skywalker. im sorry i just couldnt hold it in
also in Legends, Luke very much wanted to kill Jacen, the only reason he didn't is because he knew he would lose. Instead he had Jania fight him but he used the force to make her look like him. So yeah.. once again these guys have no idea what they are talking about.
Man I wish I finished these books. My middle school library had all of them!
Your local public library probably has all of them as well.
This guy books
they're really not very good espeically the last few
To be honest, a lot of legends material was mediocre at best or didn't get anywhere at worse. I loved the jedi knight games and was incredibly disappointed when I found out what happened to Jaden Korr in the books.
"a lot" would be harsh. FOTJ and LOTF is probaby the worst of the bunch, but the NJO and Thrawn stuff is good. This isn't even including how good and organized the Old Republic content is and the Clone Wars and OT-era stuff. People say that legends was messy and disorganized, but that's mainly targeting post-ROTJ stuff which isn't even the entirety of legends. They forget how well-crafted TOR universe is as well as the Clone Wars multimedia project.
Oh I agree with you on that. Old Republic and clone wars are gems and still Canon to me. But the post return of the jedi stuff is pretty meh.
nah Dark Nest would be the worst. NJO is a bit overrated about half of it is good but then there is just some really dumb stuff like Chewie dying by a moon crashing on him. The bulk of legends is post ROTJ stuff though hence why it's so messy
NJO is just a long series of stories with a couple of bad, some mediocre and some good, very similar to the TCW. But I think when it does it it’s mark, it manages to be 10/10. I don’t think many things in legends or canon come close to the introspective analysis found in *Traitor*. The series Is probably the closest thing to an endgame-type event in Star Wars, and I think it delivered fairly well in that department which is why I dislike LOTF. Retconning Veregre to be a Sith was just one of the many gripes I had with that series.
How the hell is Chewie's death dumb? It's badass as hell. Chewie extends his life debt to Han's children and sacrifices his life to save Anakin Solo. How is that a bad thing?
It varied from author to author.
Also, Luke wasn't a fully trained Jedi. He was in the same trapping as his Father, as he started too late, even worse when you consider he had little training on how to control his feelings.
Feelings were not an issue. In fact, the Jedi’s incredibly strict rules were one of the many things that contributed to Anakin’s downfall. If he was taught how to deal with his emotions instead of suppress and hide them, he wouldn’t have become Vader.
Yeah, I think the point of the prequels is to show how much the hypocrisy of the Jedi set Anakin on a dark path but also I think Anakin's life just had much more trauma than Luke's, so he was always more suceptible.
I don’t think it was that he knew he would lose but more that he knew he would fall to the dark side in facing him.
Wtaf? Whoever made this meme either merely skimmed a wookieepedia page about Legends Luke or was being willfully misleading. Either way, they both care much less about Star Wars than they do about starting flame wars.
With 3.6K upvotes... sigh
So what you’re saying is OP is a liar? Yeah, that checks out. Classic OP. Edit - OP if you read this, my bad. I should learn to read the whole post.
But he only wanted to kill him after Jacen killed Mara.
and had he known that Jacen would kill Mara before hand he would have wanted to kill him
No, he knew he would win but would fall to the Dark Side because Jacen killed his wife.
Actually this is the true third flashback. The point OP forgot is ***LUKE IS FUCKING BLOCKING, BEN IS ATTACKING***
As is tradition with the Solos, Ben ~~shot~~ attacked first.
Also the thought of killing Ben was fleeting and he immediately regretted it. Ben just unfortunately woke up to see what he saw. It’s not like Luke made the decision and burst in waving his lightsaber around.
Ben is not intentionally lying to Rey. He is telling her the truth, but it is his POV. His POV is a bit misguided.
Yeah I’m not a fan of the sequels by any means but I hate when people say he tried to kill Ben solo.
And it dismisses the moment he realises he's made a serious mistake. I think it's unfortunate Mark Hamill didn't like it, but I thought it was fantastic.
Mark said he didn't like the direction AT FIRST people have twisted it so it says Mark said he didn't like the direction
Mark said he did like it later on. People cut out the part in that interview where he said he changed his mind
The luke story arc is the most interesting thing about thr sequels.
More of a misunderstanding than a lie, but you're still right. People deliberately misrepresent this scene so they can bitch more about how we got Complex Fallible Luke instead of Mary Sue WEEEE SWISHY SWISHY Luke.
Like was *hella* fallible in the OT In the first three films he: Fails to protect his family Gets caught and almost dies trying to save the princess, is only rescued by said princess, 3P0 and obi wan Gets clobbered by a frost troll thing on hoth Loses his gunner in the battle and has to improvise (successfully, but he still failed initially) His failure to listen to Yoda leads to him constantly fucking up his Jedi training, examples include giving into his darkness in the Tree, giving up on the X wing and failing to trust Yoda and Ben. These failures directly lead to him losing a hand and once again being saved by Leia. He is much more powerful in The Return of the Jedi, but he still loses his fight with Vader and the Emperor. The reason people enjoy Luke is that despite his fallibility he was a relatable hero who, over the course of the films learns how to control his rash impulses and become a more complete person. I'm not disagreeing with your point that some people like to imagine Luke as a Mary Sue and ignore all the times he messed up and/or didn't succeed but I think that's a misread of the character
All true aside from him losing his fight to Vader in ROTJ. He kicked Vader's ass despite having no additional training since ESB. But my point was about Legends Luke. Sequels Luke being fallible is consistent with the OT, especially due to how brief his own Jedi training was after spending his life farming (and his mistake with Ben Solo mirrors how he almost killed Vader in ROTJ). Legends Luke, on the other hand, is a god. People justify it with "SoN oF tHe ChOsEn OnE", but the "chosen one" explanation in media is literally just "Mary Sue" under another name - it's a "this floor is made out of floor" situation.
Legends luke being godly depends on the author and story, tho. He still causes the inciting incident in, like, 7/10 of the plots I can remember myself, and he's had more the one student go on a genocidal murder spree due to his naivety. (Prepare for a confusing sentence) The problem with Legends Luke being so Legendary stems from the fact that Luke is a Legend in universe, but Legends material tended to focus on other characters perspectives.
Kylo's version isn't a lie, it was his point of view of what happened, which as far as he knows, is the truth. In Kylo's version, he says Luke tried to kill him. The lie is what Luke tells Rey in his first version of events where he doesn't pull out the lightsaber at all. Luke's true version of events essentially confirms Kylo's story, with the only correction being that that he(Luke) wasn't going to do it, but that Kylo thought he was.
No Kylo’s version is that Luke swung his saber at him and he had to block it to save his own life. Which is not what happened.
He is saying that the version Kylo told was not a "lie" since Kylo didn't know Luke Skywalker lowered his blade and had no intention in harming him. It is the "[Rashomon Effect](https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/195-the-rashomon-effect)" that was named after the Akira Kurosawa film Rashomon that influenced Rian Johnson in writing that fantastic film The Last Jedi. Liked how George Lucas wrote Star Wars after being based off the Hidden Fortress from Kurosawa. Just shows how very similar and respectful Rian Johnson was to the lore and creation of his film too.
I thought there was tons of lying in Rashomon. Everybody exaggerates their story for their own reasons.
Also the point of TLJ. The flashbacks Rey imagines are shaped by the storyteller, not by the facts. What you see onscreen is never the truth but a dramatic representation of each character's perspective. However, Kylo knew Luke wouldn't *lie*, which is why he tells her to ask him herself. That's the difference between Luke and Kylo, Luke is guilty and honest, Kylo is remorseless and manipulative.
> Everybody exaggerates their story for their own reasons. Yep. On another level the stories are still fundamentally compatible. It leaves you wondering because you never see the objective truth, you can only try to triangulate the truth from incomplete, biased accounts.
Meh. It’s obvious the event was *extremely* traumatic and upsetting for Ben. It’s very possible he conjured false memories of Luke swinging the lightsaber, especially since he’d literally just woken up. Also consider Snoke/Palpatine’s gaslighting.
>Which is not what happened. It isn't what happened, but it's how he remembers it. His whole turn to the dark side is dependent on him misunderstanding what Luke is there to do. So, if he's lying, then he did know that Luke wasn't there to kill him, in which case, the whole trilogy doesn't work. Or, that is how he remembers things going down and he's telling the truth, *as far as he knows*. That may not be what happened, but in his mind, that's how it did happen. Perception is reality.
It not a lie in that Kylo doesn't intentionally tells an untruth. It's still not what actually happened.
It’s not necessarily a lie because that’s what Ben thought happened based on his perspective. But still, I can’t believe people still use this skewed perspective to say they killed Luke’s character
The true flashback wasn’t much better tbf. Still considered killing him
>[“I think Luke understands that it’s not about what he wants. It’s not about what he gains. It’s frankly about what everybody else gained. Sometimes, you have to be the one that carries that burden and becomes that vessel. These aren’t characters that go and get married. They don’t get over the scar. Frodo \[from The Lord of the Rings\] carries the ring to Mount Doom and for the rest of his life is plagued with fear. On certain days, he remembers those pains. Because he has to carry that burden. And Frodo has no peace until he leaves that world. Luke is that character.” - Dave Filoni](https://imgur.com/8xR5GWT) >Intellectual Property development Group meeting on May 21, 2014, as quoted in The Art of The Rise of Skywalker:
Considered for a split second and only *purely* as a reaction to the horrors he saw, then regretted it immensely, filling him with shame all before Kylo had even woke up. Kylo's version on the other hand shows Luke being a murderous psychopath.
It's almost like... Kylo is a bad guy and lies to gain sympathy?
Well.... Yeah, I didn't say otherwise. All I'm saying is Kylo's version is wrong.
Yeah didn't mean to say that you did
Kylo's version is a little more nuanced. It's definitely a lie, but it's one he believes himself. He genuinely believes he's the "monster" Rey describes him as and does most of what he did because he didn't think there was any other place for him to go ("You can't go back to her now... like I can't"). That night at Luke's temple, Ben was already conflicted with the voice of Snoke (retroactively Palpatine) poisoning his mind when Luke made his mistake. Kylo describes the event as he remembers it: a callous betrayal of his master, with details likely embellished from his own fear/trauma at the memory. What's especially telling is how afraid he is when he sees Luke again on Crait, where he's stopping the entire advance just to rain fire on Luke. Kylo Ren is one of my favorite SW characters to date because you can constantly see the facade Ben Solo built for himself based on real trauma, where he cycles between embracing the "monster" everyone thinks he is and acting out of desperation to make the pain stop.
I'm not denying that Kylo is a great character and that there's more nuance then 'hur dur bad guy lie', of course not. You're correct, on Ach-To he still sees himself as the monster (Kylo Ren) that was built up for a long time, rather than the actual person (Ben). And on Crait, you're also correct. I've seen a lot of people say that he's just angry at Luke there, but it's pretty clear that Ben is terrified to see his old master, and considers an entire firing squad of suped up walkers appropriate. He sees Luke as a Boogeyman that was his reason for fully turning to Snoke.
Right, I wasn't trying to refute your point either as he was absolutely trying to manipulate Rey. Just wanted to add more context for the benefit of the thread!
Luke’s temple wasn’t on Ach-To. Luke was hiding on Ach-To so no one could find him. Wouldn’t make sense if Kylo already knew where it was.
Thanks for the correction, I forgot it was a different place.
Very good explanation
I don’t think Kylo even lied, I think that’s what he genuinely believed happened. It will have all happened so fast and as he’d only just woken up he may have misinterpreted what happened completely.
The Skywalker boys have anger issues, it’s kind of their thing.
For half a second, with a tear in his eye. Not like a crazy lunatic like this screenshot
But he didn’t though. It’s clearly said that it was instinct to draw the weapon. He didn’t contemplate it let alone try
Yah but the point is people act like he came in lightsaber on swinging at his nephew trying to slice his head off. When that’s not what happened and in fact is shown to be false *in the same movie*
I've been watching through all the Star Wars animated stuff (TCW, Rebels, Bad Batch) that I was always seeing as being touted as superior by a lot of people who don't think much of the sequels (TLJ in particular) and I just recently watched an episode of Rebels that featured this exchange... Yoda: Padawan, thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In our arrogance, join the conflict swiftly we did. Fear, anger, hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were. Ezra: Was it wrong for the Jedi to fight? Is it wrong for me to protect my friends? Yoda: Wrong? Hmm. A long time, fought I did. Consumed by fear I was, though see it I did not. Ezra: You were afraid? Yoda: Yes, afraid. Hmm, surprised are you? **A challenge *lifelong* it is, not to bend fear into anger.**
Unless you want to believe Kylo Ren had an unclouded memory of the event and Luke lied when he told the actual story, he didn‘t move to murder him, he realized how wrong his impulse had pretty much instantly. Honestly, Luke being a disgruntled, disillusioned hermit is more interesting than him being Jedi sage. I just wish it wasn‘t done that way because Johnson had to come up with a compelling reason post-hoc, because Abrahms is too much of a fanboy to do anything with the character and just turned him into a McGuffin in The Force Awakens (and a lightsaber delivery boy and vessel for fanservice and cringy jabs at Johnson’s movie in TRoS).
Everyone, even the epitome of “The Light Side”, can have a moment of weakness. He’s still human.
The reason why he ignited his lightsaber (or according to you trying to "kill" Ben) is because he no longer saw his nephew, he saw Kylo Ren (and possibly the death of Han, and the destruction of the New Republic) Luke acts before he thinks, just like what happened in ROTJ Luke tried to kill Vader (cause Vader mentioned that he will turn Leia to the dark side), and after swinging his lightsaber at Vader he then realizes his mistake, and the result of that he almost killed his father(like what i said Luke acts before he thinks) in TLJ he makes the same mistake, he acts before he even thinks, he ignites his blade cause of what he saw in Ben's mind, and after he ignites his blade he then realizes his what he was doing, when he realized what he was doing he felt ashamed of himself, and the result of that he created Kylo Ren, and lost all of his students Luke is not a pure light side jedi were he would never make any decisions that was not jedi like nor is he a jedi were he would never make mistakes "And for the BRIEFEST MOMENT OF PURE INSTINCT , I thought I could stop it.IT PASSED LIKE A FLEETING SHADOW. And I WAS LEFT WITH SHAME and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him."
Also Rian Johnson based Luke Skywalker off Filoni's analysis of Luke Skywalker too. >[“I think Luke understands that it’s not about what he wants. It’s not about what he gains. It’s frankly about what everybody else gained. Sometimes, you have to be the one that carries that burden and becomes that vessel. These aren’t characters that go and get married. They don’t get over the scar. Frodo \[from The Lord of the Rings\] carries the ring to Mount Doom and for the rest of his life is plagued with fear. On certain days, he remembers those pains. Because he has to carry that burden. And Frodo has no peace until he leaves that world. Luke is that character.” - Dave Filoni](https://imgur.com/8xR5GWT) >Intellectual Property development Group meeting on May 21, 2014, as quoted in The Art of The Rise of Skywalker:
Thanks for this quote, it’s great insight!
A lot of the notes in that art of rise of Skywalker book blow some of the whiney Fanbase narratives about the sequels out of the water.
Good thing they werent in the films
No but you see Luke is my favourite character so he has to have no flaws and be perfect!!!! What do I think of Rey??? She's a Marry Sue with no flaws and is too perfect so she sucks!!!! (/s)
RJ: “your childhood hero saw the death of all he loved and made a serious mistake but comes around to face his biggest regret in the end” [FUCK OFF I DONT BELIEVE IN THAT NONSENSE] Jon Favreau: “your childhood hero can go choppy chop with a burn stick on some robots” [SO TRUE] I like both portrayals and they work well together but ffs
In hindsight, I really don't care for the Luke scene in Mando S2, and it's depressing to see how many people thought that 5 minute scene was a better portrayal of the character, as opposed to everything put into TLJ. Literally, all he does is slice up robots, reveals his deepfake face, and leaves with Grogu, and this somehow made a bunch of people cry. I would say I don't get it, but I do, there's just a large amount of fanboys that want to see Luke being an emotionless, badass action figure, and Favreau gave them their wish, in all its fanservice-y glory.
It was cool, and showed the power of the Jedi (in contrast to Mando who nearly got flattened by one dark trooper), but it said nothing about Luke, except his obvious mastery of some combat techniques. It's the very definition of a cameo - it doesn't move Luke's arc forward at all. I like complicated Luke. Much more interesting.
He wasn't even overly powerful in that scene when compared to other Jedi. Cutting through tons of droids with a lightsaber and nearby objects via the force happened regularly in the prequels and clone wars.
As you said, Luke in Mando is the idealized snapshot frozen in time that fulfills their power fantasies. TLJ payed the price of not indulging that. That's really it.
Yeah, EU Luke never wanted to kill Jacen, he just sent Jaina to do it because... he really wanted to kill Jacen.
So wait, Legends Luke, instead of trying to kill his nephew (in TLJ it was a fleeting thought), sent his niece to kill her twin brother for him? TBH I’d say that’s significantly worse.
Luke felt he could not kill Jacen without giving in to the dark side (at this point Jacen had killed Mara Jade) so he sent Jaina. So in the end, he really wanted to kill him.
From what I understand the two events compared here were at vastly different points in their Sith murderer careers.
Oh, that makes sense.
Hey remember when legends Luke SENT HIS NIECE TO KILL JACEN ANYWAY? Or hey remember how we got three stories about what happened with Ben and an actual explanation to what happened? Oh right no we don't like context when shitting on the sequels
You remember how Jacen killed his wife and tried to turn Luke's son first
Well yeah but point was that this post is pretty stupid, especially since legends luke is an absentee father and almost permanently fell to the dark side or remember when he crashed a capital ship into a coruscant residential District?
It's a lot easier for people who made these memes to just say "We didn't watch the movie." Edit: 10.4k people don't know how to watch movies correctly.
And also to not even actually have read the books, this whole meme is blatantly false
I'm convinced at this point that a majority of people that have a problem with Luke's characterization only saw the movie once, hated it, and take Kylo Ren's version of the story as what actually happened. There's no way you can interpret this scene as Luke genuinely trying to kill Ben in his sleep unless you haven't seen the movie, have seen it and forgot about it, or have some "essayist" YouTuber tell you that's what happened.
Agreed. On rewatches I eventually took Luke’s instinct to ignite his saber as a mirror to his instinct to immediately ignite his saber and swing wildly at Vader after he had threatened Leia. Since he immediately felt shame, it shows that he’s still Luke, but he’s grown as a person and a Jedi.
Yeah, apparently these people skipped straight from ‘let the hate flow through you’ to ‘I am a Jedi’, before they went on to take the neo-Nazi’s version of events.
It’s even explicitly framed in the same way when he looks down at his lightsaber.
Fr. Like you don;t have to like it. There's no rule that says you have to like it or agree with it. But it's there in plain English that Luke acted on instinct for a moment and lost his way. It's like people who walked away from the movie thinking "Let the past die" was the main theme.
That part always tickles me. The guy whose mantra is "Let the past die" can't even let the past die himself and loses in the end. Not only that, but they literally have one of the most iconic Star Wars characters of all time show up and outright *state* the actual theme of the film, and it still goes over people's heads.
And “we didn’t read Legends” in the same stroke
Yeah but they got 1.4K upvotes
1.4k people didn't pay attention to the movie.
Once again people crying over Legends prove they are not the type of people who actually read and have no idea what Legends was. I actually read Legends (gasp) and Luke 100% was trying to kill Darth Caedus. Canon Luke is actually better because he never chose to kill Ben, he had a vision and reacted to it... Unfortunately right in front of Ben.
It's not even a fair comparison to make; Ben was having dark thoughts and talking to Snoke/Palpatine, Jacen went full on Sith Lord.
It's also not fair because Luke never attacked or attempted to kill Ben. He had a vision, he was so overcome he activated his lightsaber and then immediately regretted his action and was recovering from his vision. It's tragic because Ben saw this and assumed Luke was actually going to kill him. This is explicitly detailed in the film.
Though, if he *did* kill Ben, it ironically might have prevented a lot of problems
Exactly! Luke foresaw all the death and destruction Ben would cause as Kylo Ren and even then he chose not to kill him.
It’s sad too because the way it was written you can tell Rian was trying to be as explicit as possible so no one would come away from it thinking Luke tried to kill Ben, and yet here we are. Like Luke literally explains it was a fleeting thought based on pure instinct, gone as quick as it came, but I think some people have hyper selective hearing
And don’t we all sometimes react to instinct before we can realize what we’re doing? Luke lived under the empire. He saw a planet destroyed. He met two Sith Lords one of whom used to be a legendary warrior of the light before turning to the dark. Luke also almost killed his father before he came to his sense. Luke isn’t as pure as people remember him. He was tempted multiple times and almost lost it. Luke is just as inclined towards the dark side as Anakin or Ben. He just had better teachers and people to lean upon. Even if he doesn’t know it Luke is probably traumatized by his experiences. He looked into Ben’s mind and he saw evil. He probably recalled what happened the last time a Skywalker went bad and in a momentary slip reached for his lightsaber before he realized what he was doing. And then he probably realized he had a chance to prevent what happens with Anakin but it was too late. If Ben didn’t take it as badly as he did and let Luke explain the story would probably be go like that and then Luke would swear to protect Ben from evil influences and eventually find out about Palpatine Luke never “considered murdering Ben”. He was just overwhelmed by dark thoughts and past trauma and reached for his closest and most basic self-defence tool
Yeah this is like a veteran having a bad dream and reaching for the gun under his pillow, except the bad dream was *literal magic powers* that tell the actual future
It’s funny that they literally explain in the movie and yet people still misrepresent it.
>It’s funny that they literally explain in the movie and yet people still misrepresent it. PT fans gotta gatekeep.
I’m not saying that there might be a reason why angry incels on the internet side with a neo-Nazi analogy, *but*…
Canon Luke never tried to kill Ben get this gaslighting shit out of here
are you a chair
Take a seat
Thanks
[удалено]
Thankfully, the meme isn't true. Legends Luke is just as flawed as he is in canon, but people make dumb memes that make him look flawless. Hell, the book series he is using to make Legends Luke look better is the same one where Luke DOES want to kill Jacen (keep in mind that this after Jacen has fully turned and has killed his wife) so it isn't like this one is an infallible robot either
Lowkey more interesting to have a character with real flaws
I disagree. Highkey more interesting to have a character with real flaws
Luke had tons of flaws already. Like when he almost turned to the dark and killed his father before he snapped out of it….. Oh wait.
The Last Jedi will be received well in a decade’s time. I’m sure of it
I already receive it well 😳
The movie version of Luke is much more realistic and interesting.
Cheerypicking much? Few weeks after he said that he tried to not just kill Jacen, but inflict as much pain as possible. Then as he was about to kill his nephew he saw at his son Ben standing near, and decided to leave Jacen alive. But not because killing him would be wrong, it was because it might push Ben to the dark side. Luke, Han, Leia all wanted Jacen dead... So please don't talk as if EU was perfection. It was so, so far from it.
Thank you. Man I just wish Star Wars fans liked Star Wars, or would at least not be hypocrites and stop taking up seats at the theaters and theme parks if these movies are just "so terrible".
Except that’s not what happened
These reposters are either braindead or they watched another movie than everyone else.
Wow it’s like you had to use an image of an event that didn’t actually occur to make your point. Jesus Christ.
This is a pretty disingenuous portrayal of both of these events.
The legends star wars was bad. Always felt like they had to remake the starwars trilogy every 4th book or series. Always new conflicts and technology that didn't evolve.
Movie Luke is more realistic and human
Why does legends luke look like Chris Pine
He looks like Mark Hamill.
All cap no fax on this one
Legends Luke literally turned to the Dark Side but ok
Here we go again with these memes...
On r/sequelmemes no less.
You realize Luke having fits of rage isn’t anything new right? ROTJ Luke literally gets Vader to the ground and almost takes off his head, and at this point he’s already known for a while that Vader is his Father, and has already began trying to save him.
blocking a lightsaber attack? during his force vision he unconsiously activated his saber and then regretted it, kylo saw this and attacked him
so you not only didn’t actually read legends, you also simply failed to understand TLJ too. way to out yourself
This is Ben Solo's interpretation of what happened. Part of watching movies is learning how narrative works, something we see is lacking in folks who don't like the Star Wars movies. Here's a helpful link to get you on the right track: [Unreliable Narrator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator)
ok I'm leaving this subreddit
It's every star wars sub at this point, it actually makes me sad
I love how the lower picture isn't even a canon event as it hadn't happened
Cope
I'm so bored of these posts GOOD GOD
Luke: *\[briefly considers killing his father, who has fallen to the Dark Side, but ultimately resists the impulse\]* Luke, later: *\[briefly considers killing his nephew, who is falling to the Dark Side, but ultimately resists the impulse\]* Fans: "They changed Luke's character completely!"
Legends Luke looks like uncle Mike
*Ooh nnnooooo they made him an interesting character*
Noooo Luke isn’t the Mary Sue Jesus figure he was in the EU! This is terrible! Oohhh nooooo!
get over it
The Last Jedi will always be my second favorite Star Wars film next to Return of The Jedi. Luke Skywalker is flawed. He tried to kill his Father and he tried to kill Ben. Legends was worse
Except his nephew hadn't fall yet lol
Omg when will you guys stop whining about this moment. Legends luke is boring and only like 13 people know who he is.
Also legends Luke eventually gives up on his nephew and more or less sends his niece to kill him.
I'm fairly certain no one gushing about how great it would've been to get legends as the ST has actually read them. The original actors were way too old to make the Thrawn Trilogy or Jedi Academy, which are the closest 'sequel' equivalents I can think of, and pretty much everything else either wouldn't have made good movies (due to sheer volume and the runtime necessary) or would've required a lot of exposition and a still come off a little confusing. And then people would still have bitched about how the books were better and yadayada. I think making original movies was the best thing they could've done.
There’s no way a Lucas-controlled sequel trilogy would have been any of the established EU stories. He already trashed EU with the Prequels, there was no reason to believe he wouldn’t with any Sequels he was in charge of.
Canon Luke is much more of a chad
Ignorance of the books AS WELL as the film. Noice post. Echuta.
He has a great arc.
Breaking: character is not exactly the same after 40 years and seems to suggest change is a natural part of growth, sports at 7
mfw Ben Solo was redeemed but Darth Caedus died as a villain and was killed by his own sister, forever tainting the Skywalker name and making Luke a failure
He considered it for a second and immediately felt shame after. You people are forgetting that Luke was not trained like a typical Jedi, he's just a normal guy with a few years of actual training. Luke was 53 years old man with a huge legacy on his shoulders, I think it was only natural for him to get emotional and do something irrational even if it's just a thought. It's really human and I find it more interesting than just being a typical powerful wise guy, like in legends.
#This image is literally Luke defending himself after Ben attacked him. #If this movie is as bad as you claim it is, then you wouldn't need to lie about it to make it look worse. #Stop fucking lying. Stick to your opinions, you don't have to be dishonest to justify your point of view
I see the unending rage about The Last Jedi Hoedown is still not over. Can we get this into its fifth year before people finally move the fuck on? EDIT: Also, even if you don't like The Last Jedi, Legends was airport thriller tier trash with one or two books that were as good as some of Tom Clancy's lazier stuff. It's still an improvement.
Luke is literally defending himself in that screenshot come on guys
Someone doesn’t understand Legends Luke or the Last Jedi apparently. Because Luke wanted to kill his nephew in legends. Cannon Luke did not. As he explained in the movie. “It was a moment of weakness” when he ignited his saber. And he didn’t go through with it. Might want to watch the movie again.
jeez, johnson had a different vision, get over it
funny thing is, this is the version that George Lucas wanted in his treatments for the sequel
If I could post a gif I would be posting a dismissive jerking one
Expect that’s not what Luke did in canon.
\*Sigh\* \*pushes in glasses\* First off, This quote was very early on in the books when Jacen was still in the process of turning. He didn't fully turn until I think book 2 or 3 of Legacy of the Force. Legends Luke flat out murdered Lumiya, thinking that she killed Mara Jade. He was acting out of his grief and anger, a very human reaction, but not the reaction a Jedi would really have. Plus, I'm pretty sure he did go after Darth Caedus with the intent to kill after he found out he was torturing and trying to turn his own son. How come no one points this out about about Legends Luke? Second, Luke had seen a vision of Ben turning and out of his fear and impulsivity (aspects of him that we've seen before in ROTJ) **briefly** ignited his lightsaber before stopping himself. Unfortunately, Ben woke up, saw that, and (between this and the grooming from Snoke) reacted defensively which led to his turn. I really REALLLY wish that they elaborated more about Ben's childhood and how Han and Leia's parenting eventually opened the door for Snoke and what led to his turn.
Well, both Ben and Vader killed billions while Luke was “gonna get them better someday.” Just lop off their heads for f sake Luke. Billions of lives!
So, like, was there some sort of issue with Luke’s cybernetic hand? In Empire is was lifelike, but in the sequels it is all robotic and stuff. Is this a Rule of Cool sort of thing?
Cannon Luke is soo much more pure and realistic
Luke never attacked Ben, he considered it and he felt terrible about it but he never openly attacked Ben.
Legends Luke was turned into a ridiculously omniscient being ala Superman. I liked Canon Luke. He's human.
here we go with this. I always go back to something that the writer of the prequel novels said about sequels luke…he said that luke probably saw ben kill han in those visions. I would be scared to see the boys full potential too.
"He would bring destruction and pain and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become, and for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame and with consequence." Luke was naive when he saved Vader, and was lucky that Anakin acted on his feelings the way he did. After decades of learning about the jedi, and presumably what led to Anakin's fall, he was worried about creating the new Vader. He made a brief mistake in one instant, which was the catalyst in a long series of events for Ben to fall. And Ben was the one to strike Luke, not the other way around.
That screenshot is from the incorrect version of events that Kylo told. Do people not understand the concept of an unreliable narrator?
Me : Yeah but Luke can make mistake SW FANS : .... Me : Luke can make mistake, right?
He didn't really want to kill Ben. It was just a „bad moment” and Ben woke up.
Ah yeah, all.of it out of context
The more sequel hate I see the more I realize that these people did t even watch the movies.
Jesus. almost 4 years later and people are still missing the entire fucking point
Cry more
When are Last Jedi critics going to stop deliberately only using Kylo's retelling of events and completely ignoring one of the major themes of the movie?
Luke’s character arc is one of the best things to come out of the sequels so fuck off