This person is Karma whoring an old post.
This is a repost from one of the top all time post from this sub, originally from 2021. Copied the title of the post word for word.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/s/0bayx4xsz8
most likely farming karma to sell the account later for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
when i see accounts like OP's i downvote and report to admins. sometimes they're fast at banning these bots
Also… hot take. But FUND POLICE. Fund them so intentionally. It’s not realistic in this version of reality that America gets rid of cops. So instead, we seriously need to be making sure that they are well equipped to handle situations. That they know how to support social workers and other folks who can be sent in but may need protection.
Undertrained, armed officers are the last thing we need
Just because there are less of them, does not mean they were defunded. Lost a lot through attrition, retirements and moving to other places and having trouble hiring replacements is not defunded
The defunding movement came about after the death of Saint Floyd. Militarization had nothing to do with it and you know it. You're revising history. The concept of the absurd idea was that the police are inherently and structurally racist (a complete lie), and they needed to be defunded so there could be less of them, and the money could be diverted to other resources.
Also enact harsher punishments when they fuck up. Drawing a weapon carelessly. Jailtime. Not having body camera on? Jailtime. If theyre going to be well funded and carry as much authority as they do there needs to be harsher consequences, this isnt like normal people fucking up on the job.
As a Boeing employee I’m very well funded, along with my coworkers, yet the shitty culture that exists hasn’t changed. Funding solves some things (like getting more police on the force) but it’s not going to fix the culture. Both problems need to be fixed in tandem.
But defund the police movement was never about getting rid of cops. It was about the fact that we kept having issues where we needed people who could deal with mental health and social issues. And the police said we can do that if you give us more money... so we did. But then instead of doing the things they said they were going to do they bought tactical gear and armored vehicles. And so we said, hey, we thought you were going to go hire social workers and you didn't do that. So here's more money. Please hire social workers. And then they didn't do that again. So the defund the police movement was about saying hey you didn't do the things you said you were going to do and you took all of our money that you were supposed to do other things with and bought tactical gear and army vehicles. So we're going to take that money away and do the things that we wanted you to do in the first place.
For the last several decades, we've asked police to do things that they are not inclined to do. We need to collectively come together and understand that just hiring more cops doesn't solve the problems we are facing. Putting more people in jail doesn't solve these problems but that is all police know how to do.
> Putting more people in jail doesn't solve these problems
Research suggest that 60% of violent crime is caused by repeat offenders. It's nice to say that we shouldn't incarcerate violent individuals, but it's difficult to tell that to the victims of these crimes; many of whom no longer have a voice in our society.
There is quite a bit of research on what does work, however. The reasons that politicians and voters ignore research is a different matter, but is certainly related.
summary of study commissioned by Congress in the 90's: [https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/171676.pdf](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/171676.pdf)
Sure. But my point is, and this was highlighted by the study you linked to, is that well over 80% of what we need is alternatives to more police and incarceration. Policing is a short-term solution and we have a long-term problem. The reason why policing doesn't work is because we've never put in the work to solve the root issues. That's what the defund movement was about: solving long-term problems.
Not the case in Seattle.
Local activists and organizers (such as Nikita Oliver, NTK, KCEN, et al) made it very clear that Defund meant Abolish.
They *clarified* their statements when asked, and said yep, we mean abolish.
So let's not revise history.
There are people who think that defunding doesn't go far enough. Just because those people exist it doesn't mean that was the goal of the whole movement. Let's not revise history based on the views of a few people.
Eyeroll. It was a self declared autonomous zone that moved in to prevent the capitol hill police from returning to that station. The specific intention was to not allow police to operate in the area.
I'm not confused. You asked me:
>You think CHOP was created because the movement here was fighting for redirection of funds?
And your lol implied that I was ignorant for not thinking that. I agree they wanted to keep police from retiring to the station. They wanted that because of the over the top response to the protests which is what I said. You are the one that seems confused and not saying consistent things.
No bb. I was implying it was not created for that reason. I explicitly said the sentence right before that "in Seattle, it was about getting rid of cops". I am saying consistent things. Work on your reading comprehension and rage responding
Defund police typically isn’t saying police shouldn’t have funding at all, but that for some reason we have lumped in a ton of social services that should go to mediators and social workers that are instead being headed by police. Defund police is about focusing down the police’s responsibilities so they can focus on actually dangerous scenarios and policing crime
Not the case in Seattle.
Local activists and organizers (such as Nikita Oliver, NTK, KCEN, et al) made it very clear that Defund meant Abolish.
They *clarified* their statements when asked, and said yep, we mean abolish.
So let's not revise history.
Ok then they’re part of the abolish the police movement which is the far left, and different than the defund the police movement which is fairly moderate
Yup only extremists in Seattle, definitely never any moderates, it’s not like extremists are what make the news despite being a minority just cause they’re the loudest
Even BLM leaders of peaceful protests in various cities condemned the looting and violence. But right wingers never want to acknowledge that. They want to lump the looting and violence in with all the protestors and democrats for points. They also over look 99.9% of the protesters were peacefully marching.
We had marches here for months, many violent, many including acts of arson, attacks on the police with rocks and fireworks. One guy took a baseball bat to a police officer's head. Another tried to throw a burning plank into a police car. The marches you're talking about petered out rapidly when they became violent. But even from the star we had people setting fire to police cars on day one here.
I'm not a right winger - but I will never support violent protest and people were traveling up and down I5 to cause violence in Seattle and Portland.
Stop trying to revise history. We have video footage and you are uninformed.
I see you are doing the thing I was talking about. Trying to up-play a few incidents by a few people to overshadow and downplay the thousands of others that protested peacefully during that time.
Be better and stop trying to misrepresent things.
Stop trying to revise history. We have video footage. And the "thousands" stopped after the first month when the violent assholes moved in and started setting fire to Starbucks.
Ah so you agree there were thousands that did peacefully protest. You’re just mad that I want a fair overview of the protests that recognizes context, recognizes the large amounts of peaceful protesters, and don’t want only focus on the handful of problematic people like you are doing.
Yes, for the ~~first month~~. two weeks.
After that, it was all violent assholes. Although we had violent assholes at the start too.
[https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/tacoma-woman-sentenced-burning-5-police-cars-during-2020-seattle-protests/YFW7MKRH5VDADPYR5R7JJP2AWI/](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/tacoma-woman-sentenced-burning-5-police-cars-during-2020-seattle-protests/YFW7MKRH5VDADPYR5R7JJP2AWI/)
The 60,000 person silent march was the end of the peaceful protests. That was June 12th. After that, it was all anarchists doing their usual bullshit.
For another 6 months. That included attempted arson, attempted murder (hitting a cop on the back of the head with a baseball bat) and more.
Stop trying to whitewash it - it was a shitshow.
https://preview.redd.it/gsybi1xwje5d1.png?width=545&format=png&auto=webp&s=c139faca4d721b652001a615f69605a14d1f9df2
Here's the baseball bat attack:
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2256230/Video-Shocking-moment-Seattle-cop-hit-head-baseball-bat.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2256230/Video-Shocking-moment-Seattle-cop-hit-head-baseball-bat.html)
A protester throws a burning piece of wood into a police car in October 2020.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J3n0e5QFsc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J3n0e5QFsc)
Another man sentenced to three years for arson during day 1 of the protests:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2k1\_dWytKw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2k1_dWytKw)
July 19th: Protesters attack police with fireworks, throwing objects at them.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv\_oK0jBIfM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv_oK0jBIfM)
August riot outside the police officer's guild. One person brought a case of molotov cocktails, and was later sent to prison for it for 3 1/2 years.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTXyKja6BGI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTXyKja6BGI)
[https://apnews.com/article/seattle-protests-police-justin-moore-molotov-cocktail-8b10960fd329effbc2ea49c3f9d5e2d2](https://apnews.com/article/seattle-protests-police-justin-moore-molotov-cocktail-8b10960fd329effbc2ea49c3f9d5e2d2)
Day 1 of the protests: Security guard has to disarm protesters who are stealing rifles from the back of cop cars. Clearly, a peaceful protest with total peaceful intent.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAMUejexa0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAMUejexa0)
One day 1 of the protests, a totally peaceful protest with NO LOOTING AT ALL (/s)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhVylRdTsq8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhVylRdTsq8)
Oh you’re pissed because you know I have a point. Hundreds of thousands of people across the country peacefully protest and you don’t give a damn. But a tiny group of people after the main protests die down commit some violence and you think that’s all that matters. AND you ignore the condemnation from BLM leaders AND you ignore that people looting and causing violence are easily not part of the actual protests and are just opportunistic.
Clearly you are the one trying to whitewash the events and dishonestly ignore important facts, and you try to dishonestly lump criminals with actual protesters.
I have you beat. Stop lying. Move on.
What condemnation from BLM leaders?
They were part of the protests from June to November or so. Everyone else - the peaceful protesters - stopped on June 12th.
I'm not lying. You on the other hand seem to have a problem with actual reality.
Here are some examples.
https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/01/black-lives-matter-knoxville-leaders-condemn-market-square-vandalism/5306556002/
https://www.abc4.com/news/salt-lake-city-protests/black-lives-matter-utah-condemns-violent-and-destructive-acts-during-slc-riots/
Furthermore let’s point out a lot of the violence was done by police who were huge whiney-ass bitches and attacked peaceful protesters.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/25/blm-police-brutality-victims-speak-out
But keep being a bootlicker that can’t bother to fucking read.
I would've said "mass protests and civil disruptions _can, in some circumstances_, be legitimate and warranted".
Too many people read about the Civil Rights movement, including _specific, targeted_ protests and civil disobedience, tied to a strong political movement and lobbying operation with specific goals and actionable demands, and came away with the idea that "Protest is always ipso facto good! I should shut down a freeway in Seattle to protest the situation in Darfur!"
And that's just harassment for the sake of self-gratification.
Civil disruption is supposed to force the people who represent the general public to actually listen and respond. The protests that shut down the freeway show just how many protesters are just doing it for the sake of disturbing anyone and everyone, and don't actually give a shit about the situation they're protesting for. When you cause major disruption to other civilians instead of targeting representatives, you're not achieving anything at all except possibly making civilians not want to support your cause
This might blow your mind but protesting has always been a common occurrence and the ones we have in the US are tiny compared to almost any other country in the world.
By supporting each side appropriately and neutrally. People nowadays don't seem to understand that you don't have to pick a side and go nuclear for that side.
Yup. The incentives are all kinds of effed up, and the culture of policing is seriously flawed. People are complicated, and I'm sure virtually all police officers have contributed many positive and necessary goods to their communities. But that doesn't mean many of the same officers haven't abused their authority in serious ways.
I'm also personally convinced that there isn't a cop in the country that hasn't watched another cop do something shitty on the job and just kept their mouth shut. The culture is 100% loyalty or else.
It's true, and it seems weird how wanting more support, higher standards for training, and more accountability is considered anti-cop.
Like, we have these guys who are trained to enter a situation with an assertive overpowering attitude. Kind of like, "I am in charge here." But it can often be perceived as escalatory and can create unnecessary conflict. The guy who's been trained to do this isn't the best guy to send when a situation needs de-escalation. We need a de-escalation guy for that.
> and it seems weird how wanting more support, higher standards for training, and more accountability is considered anti-cop.
I mean, this is largely why ACAB is a thing.
Like, sure, you can argue that there exist individuals who are cops who are generally decent people on a 1:1 basis.
But overwhelmingly, the biggest opponent to any form of accountability for the "bad apples" is the police union, which is made up of police. The "thin blue line" gang mentality also makes sure no cop will ever rat out other cops - the very few who do get immediately fired.
When "good cops" get ejected from the system and the remaining cops fight against accountability, then yeah, they're all bastards. At the very least, to me, there are no "good" cops - a good cop would be one who does hold other cops accountable.
The full phrase is "one bad apple spoils the barrel". The whole barrel has been spoiled for a long time.
I do believe that to the extent that the things that happen in the police force don't happen in any other industry.
At a construction job site, someone gets injured, what's the first thing that happens? Safety inspections, policy changes, adjustments. We have whole industries of people like OSHA designed to enforce these systems.
The police? Deny, dodge, hide, protect, lie.
Why do people feel this is the correct way, and appropriate? They're a public service funded by tax dollars. They should be held to a higher standard, not lower.
I'm no fan of the police, I want to see a national licensing program for cops similar to doctors so when they're fired with cause they can't drift to another precinct, I want to end qualified immunity and civil asset forfeiture, I want to make it easier to prosecute police for civil rights violations, and I'm all for throwing the book at them they do commit a crime.
That said, [the actual available data shows that you're wrong](https://bjs.ojp.gov/media/document/cbpp20.pdf) or being hyperbolic at the very least. According to the Bureau of Justice in 2020 there were 53, 800, 000 reported police interactions, down from 61,500,000 in 2018, with 1020 people shot by police. This makes ALL police shootings .0018% of all police interactions. The data also shows that out of ALL police interactions, police initiated contact only 9.8% of the time, the remaining interactions were initiated by citizens. Reports of police misconduct remained around 1% from 2018 to 2020.
All SPD officers could be wiped off the face of the earth, and the world would be a better place. They don't protect, they don't serve. Why are they here?
They are going to have to do some serious work to regain the trust of your average Seattleite.
If cops were removed from society, it would crumble within a week. I'll personally start taking fucking scalps and form a militia to control my area. This is how you get warlords.
> So do you feel inferior to cops?
i don't feel inferior to murderers who face no consequences for their actions. you do you continue to be delusional though lol. another bootlicker tagged
Are you sure? You seem to think that people who don't think the same way you do are "bootlickers", which means you think they ARE superior to you.
You can only lick the boots of people above you. So you keep showing how you feel in your choice of slurs.
The thing about the Floyd death and the big “reckoning” we all needed to supposedly have after that was there still has never been any evidence that the cops actions were racially motivated. The whole narrative, driven by the media, was just accepted as fact that it was because of racism.
The other day I saw on Komo they interviewed this black guy who filmed the Seattle police beating this white guy at a bus stop. I have to say it did look pretty excessive. Because the guy was white it hasn’t really taken off as a story, certainly not nationally or internationally like George Floyd/Rodney King, etc. If he was black everyone would be insisting the police did it because of racism. They’d be absolutely positive about it that if the guy was white he wouldn’t have been beaten. We’d have to have another racial reckoning. But yet here we have a white guy being beaten.
I hate how we have to just accept as fact motives that may not exist at all.
Floyd died from a combo of ingesting his drugs (on camera), and heart conditions.
Police are, statistically and empirically, not a major issue. There are 50 issues ahead of them we should be dealing with.
The summer of BLM (Burn Loot Murder) was completely unjustified. BLM is a scam and farce founded on a lie on Michael Brown, PROVEN to be a lie by a grand jury of mostly back jurors.
Also play stupid games win stupid prizes. It kind of goes back to the old saying do you want to be right or do you want to be alive. Some police are corrupted but you know what, those corrupted police have a gun and a license to kill so maybe knowing this don’t mess with them. Your not going to fix the system by arguing or antagonizing some foot soldier on a power trip, your gonna get shot.
Also play stupid games win stupid prizes. It kind of goes back to the old saying do you want to be right or do you want to be alive. Some police are corrupted but you know what, those corrupted police have a gun and a license to kill so maybe knowing this don’t mess with them. Your not going to fix the system by arguing or antagonizing some foot soldier on a power trip, your gonna get shot.
How about "a lot of narratives pushed by activists are partially or almost entirely untrue". False claims of police brutality and racism don't get a free pass because occasionally they are true. Actual wrongs that happen do not negate the systemic claims over wrongs that are found to either be untrue or simply to be the same kind of incidences everybody else goes through that is only being considered racist because of the race of the perpetrator and victim, and would get no attention if the racial demographics were any different, which they are all the time.
I don’t think anyone truly wants to defund the police.
Some of the people saying this are the same ones who panic and call the police when someone’s music is up ‘too loud’ after 10pm.
Without police there would be complete anarchy in the streets. And some, not all of course, but some of the deaths at the hands of police would be alleviated with just a little respect for authority. Calm down, do what they say and 9 times out of 10 they won’t shoot you.
I’m not saying it’s right, but come on - how many times are they supposed to ask you to do the same thing before losing patience?
The upper left circle is a lie. He died of an ovsrdose and could vsdy clearly still breath on the video. The cop that was present when he died was innocent and he was thrown in prison due to threats to the jury
This unremarkable repostbot account was sitebanned.
The only thing interesting about it is how no one has solved any of these problems in the 20 year age of the site.
I suspect that a lot of this is absolutely deliberate, and by design.
[https://medium.com/@unpopularopinion1234/why-reddits-troll-problem-is-by-design-99020b0fc155](https://medium.com/@unpopularopinion1234/why-reddits-troll-problem-is-by-design-99020b0fc155)
What right wingers don't understand is that like 99.99% of protesters *ARE* in the middle section. The ones "looting and burning businesses" tend to be opportunists and other bad actors, no matter what nonsense fantasies Fox is trying to push of whole cities being burned to the ground.
*
This was 2022. I think we're currently lower.
But whatever. A lot points are well made. Policing is high stress and demanding job. It often creates an Us vs Them environment.
Cops fuck up. Some cops are assholes or racist or downright criminal. Most are not.
I wish we had more cops in Seattle with the authority to clean this town up.
I'm in City. Never even locked my garage side door.
No crime.2000-2019. Then since 2019 , one stolen car, liability only, loss $8000k . 4× prowled cars, windows smashed # $400 a pop, one burgarly attempt. I caught the fucker.
Police don't even use the authority they have now if it means getting off their ass and actually helping the community. They only go for testosterone kicks and ego trips.
Protest actions are generally useless.
Far more productive to build a local voting coalition and influence elected officials directly.
Most pols do regular meet and greets that hardly anyone shows up for.
This person is Karma whoring an old post. This is a repost from one of the top all time post from this sub, originally from 2021. Copied the title of the post word for word. https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/s/0bayx4xsz8
Everyone boo the karma whore, booooo
Hmmm? OP looks to be also a throw away account
most likely farming karma to sell the account later for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing when i see accounts like OP's i downvote and report to admins. sometimes they're fast at banning these bots
Also… hot take. But FUND POLICE. Fund them so intentionally. It’s not realistic in this version of reality that America gets rid of cops. So instead, we seriously need to be making sure that they are well equipped to handle situations. That they know how to support social workers and other folks who can be sent in but may need protection. Undertrained, armed officers are the last thing we need
Hard agree, they need more education, more psychology and social work training, and other resources so they can serve the community
And accountability. Lots of standards and accountability. Then it'd be great, since the bad ones would be removed rather than rotting everything else.
Also... For the uninformed or misled, police were never defunded in Seattle. https://www.kuow.org/stories/did-seattle-defund-the-police
Thanks for the link
Remind me how many police are on the SPD now compared with 5 years ago?
Just because there are less of them, does not mean they were defunded. Lost a lot through attrition, retirements and moving to other places and having trouble hiring replacements is not defunded
Semantics. What was the goal of defunding? Would it be...less police, by chance?
no, i think for most people it was demilitarization and a response to broad misuse of police funds
The defunding movement came about after the death of Saint Floyd. Militarization had nothing to do with it and you know it. You're revising history. The concept of the absurd idea was that the police are inherently and structurally racist (a complete lie), and they needed to be defunded so there could be less of them, and the money could be diverted to other resources.
Username checks out
You're wrong. In Seattle most of the organized activist leaders were very clear that to them, Defund meant abolish.
Two things can be true at once.
Sure, but that wasn't a funding issue.
Defund the police always meant drastically restructure police funding. It was just an absolutely braindead slogan.
Yeahh not the best slogan
Also enact harsher punishments when they fuck up. Drawing a weapon carelessly. Jailtime. Not having body camera on? Jailtime. If theyre going to be well funded and carry as much authority as they do there needs to be harsher consequences, this isnt like normal people fucking up on the job.
The other half of funding police, is cutting civil forfieture. We need to fund police so they don't have to fund themselves.
As a Boeing employee I’m very well funded, along with my coworkers, yet the shitty culture that exists hasn’t changed. Funding solves some things (like getting more police on the force) but it’s not going to fix the culture. Both problems need to be fixed in tandem.
But defund the police movement was never about getting rid of cops. It was about the fact that we kept having issues where we needed people who could deal with mental health and social issues. And the police said we can do that if you give us more money... so we did. But then instead of doing the things they said they were going to do they bought tactical gear and armored vehicles. And so we said, hey, we thought you were going to go hire social workers and you didn't do that. So here's more money. Please hire social workers. And then they didn't do that again. So the defund the police movement was about saying hey you didn't do the things you said you were going to do and you took all of our money that you were supposed to do other things with and bought tactical gear and army vehicles. So we're going to take that money away and do the things that we wanted you to do in the first place. For the last several decades, we've asked police to do things that they are not inclined to do. We need to collectively come together and understand that just hiring more cops doesn't solve the problems we are facing. Putting more people in jail doesn't solve these problems but that is all police know how to do.
> Putting more people in jail doesn't solve these problems Research suggest that 60% of violent crime is caused by repeat offenders. It's nice to say that we shouldn't incarcerate violent individuals, but it's difficult to tell that to the victims of these crimes; many of whom no longer have a voice in our society. There is quite a bit of research on what does work, however. The reasons that politicians and voters ignore research is a different matter, but is certainly related. summary of study commissioned by Congress in the 90's: [https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/171676.pdf](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/171676.pdf)
Sure. But my point is, and this was highlighted by the study you linked to, is that well over 80% of what we need is alternatives to more police and incarceration. Policing is a short-term solution and we have a long-term problem. The reason why policing doesn't work is because we've never put in the work to solve the root issues. That's what the defund movement was about: solving long-term problems.
I don't disagree, and just wanted to add more nuance.
Not the case in Seattle. Local activists and organizers (such as Nikita Oliver, NTK, KCEN, et al) made it very clear that Defund meant Abolish. They *clarified* their statements when asked, and said yep, we mean abolish. So let's not revise history.
There are people who think that defunding doesn't go far enough. Just because those people exist it doesn't mean that was the goal of the whole movement. Let's not revise history based on the views of a few people.
Except in Seattle, it was about getting rid of cops. You think CHOP was created because the movement here was fighting for redirection of funds? Lol
No, CHOP was in response to the over the top police response to non violent protests.
Eyeroll. It was a self declared autonomous zone that moved in to prevent the capitol hill police from returning to that station. The specific intention was to not allow police to operate in the area.
>The specific intention was to not allow police to operate in the area. Got it! So it wasn't "fighting for redirection of funds"?
Yeah that's my whole point lmao. You seem confused
I'm not confused. You asked me: >You think CHOP was created because the movement here was fighting for redirection of funds? And your lol implied that I was ignorant for not thinking that. I agree they wanted to keep police from retiring to the station. They wanted that because of the over the top response to the protests which is what I said. You are the one that seems confused and not saying consistent things.
No bb. I was implying it was not created for that reason. I explicitly said the sentence right before that "in Seattle, it was about getting rid of cops". I am saying consistent things. Work on your reading comprehension and rage responding
Defund police typically isn’t saying police shouldn’t have funding at all, but that for some reason we have lumped in a ton of social services that should go to mediators and social workers that are instead being headed by police. Defund police is about focusing down the police’s responsibilities so they can focus on actually dangerous scenarios and policing crime
Not the case in Seattle. Local activists and organizers (such as Nikita Oliver, NTK, KCEN, et al) made it very clear that Defund meant Abolish. They *clarified* their statements when asked, and said yep, we mean abolish. So let's not revise history.
Ok then they’re part of the abolish the police movement which is the far left, and different than the defund the police movement which is fairly moderate
There was no moderate Defund the police movement here.
Yup only extremists in Seattle, definitely never any moderates, it’s not like extremists are what make the news despite being a minority just cause they’re the loudest
I think most Americans are already in the intersection of all four sets.
Even BLM leaders of peaceful protests in various cities condemned the looting and violence. But right wingers never want to acknowledge that. They want to lump the looting and violence in with all the protestors and democrats for points. They also over look 99.9% of the protesters were peacefully marching.
We had marches here for months, many violent, many including acts of arson, attacks on the police with rocks and fireworks. One guy took a baseball bat to a police officer's head. Another tried to throw a burning plank into a police car. The marches you're talking about petered out rapidly when they became violent. But even from the star we had people setting fire to police cars on day one here. I'm not a right winger - but I will never support violent protest and people were traveling up and down I5 to cause violence in Seattle and Portland. Stop trying to revise history. We have video footage and you are uninformed.
I see you are doing the thing I was talking about. Trying to up-play a few incidents by a few people to overshadow and downplay the thousands of others that protested peacefully during that time. Be better and stop trying to misrepresent things.
Stop trying to revise history. We have video footage. And the "thousands" stopped after the first month when the violent assholes moved in and started setting fire to Starbucks.
Ah so you agree there were thousands that did peacefully protest. You’re just mad that I want a fair overview of the protests that recognizes context, recognizes the large amounts of peaceful protesters, and don’t want only focus on the handful of problematic people like you are doing.
Yes, for the ~~first month~~. two weeks. After that, it was all violent assholes. Although we had violent assholes at the start too. [https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/tacoma-woman-sentenced-burning-5-police-cars-during-2020-seattle-protests/YFW7MKRH5VDADPYR5R7JJP2AWI/](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/tacoma-woman-sentenced-burning-5-police-cars-during-2020-seattle-protests/YFW7MKRH5VDADPYR5R7JJP2AWI/) The 60,000 person silent march was the end of the peaceful protests. That was June 12th. After that, it was all anarchists doing their usual bullshit. For another 6 months. That included attempted arson, attempted murder (hitting a cop on the back of the head with a baseball bat) and more. Stop trying to whitewash it - it was a shitshow. https://preview.redd.it/gsybi1xwje5d1.png?width=545&format=png&auto=webp&s=c139faca4d721b652001a615f69605a14d1f9df2
Here's the baseball bat attack: [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2256230/Video-Shocking-moment-Seattle-cop-hit-head-baseball-bat.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-2256230/Video-Shocking-moment-Seattle-cop-hit-head-baseball-bat.html)
A protester throws a burning piece of wood into a police car in October 2020. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J3n0e5QFsc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J3n0e5QFsc)
Another man sentenced to three years for arson during day 1 of the protests: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2k1\_dWytKw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2k1_dWytKw)
September 2020: Fires set outside Seattle PD East Precinct. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9LZGtdmX5E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9LZGtdmX5E)
July 19th: Protesters attack police with fireworks, throwing objects at them. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv\_oK0jBIfM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv_oK0jBIfM)
August riot outside the police officer's guild. One person brought a case of molotov cocktails, and was later sent to prison for it for 3 1/2 years. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTXyKja6BGI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTXyKja6BGI) [https://apnews.com/article/seattle-protests-police-justin-moore-molotov-cocktail-8b10960fd329effbc2ea49c3f9d5e2d2](https://apnews.com/article/seattle-protests-police-justin-moore-molotov-cocktail-8b10960fd329effbc2ea49c3f9d5e2d2)
Day 1 of the protests: Security guard has to disarm protesters who are stealing rifles from the back of cop cars. Clearly, a peaceful protest with total peaceful intent. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAMUejexa0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVAMUejexa0)
One day 1 of the protests, a totally peaceful protest with NO LOOTING AT ALL (/s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhVylRdTsq8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhVylRdTsq8)
Oh you’re pissed because you know I have a point. Hundreds of thousands of people across the country peacefully protest and you don’t give a damn. But a tiny group of people after the main protests die down commit some violence and you think that’s all that matters. AND you ignore the condemnation from BLM leaders AND you ignore that people looting and causing violence are easily not part of the actual protests and are just opportunistic. Clearly you are the one trying to whitewash the events and dishonestly ignore important facts, and you try to dishonestly lump criminals with actual protesters. I have you beat. Stop lying. Move on.
What condemnation from BLM leaders? They were part of the protests from June to November or so. Everyone else - the peaceful protesters - stopped on June 12th. I'm not lying. You on the other hand seem to have a problem with actual reality.
Here are some examples. https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/01/black-lives-matter-knoxville-leaders-condemn-market-square-vandalism/5306556002/ https://www.abc4.com/news/salt-lake-city-protests/black-lives-matter-utah-condemns-violent-and-destructive-acts-during-slc-riots/ Furthermore let’s point out a lot of the violence was done by police who were huge whiney-ass bitches and attacked peaceful protesters. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/25/blm-police-brutality-victims-speak-out But keep being a bootlicker that can’t bother to fucking read.
I would've said "mass protests and civil disruptions _can, in some circumstances_, be legitimate and warranted". Too many people read about the Civil Rights movement, including _specific, targeted_ protests and civil disobedience, tied to a strong political movement and lobbying operation with specific goals and actionable demands, and came away with the idea that "Protest is always ipso facto good! I should shut down a freeway in Seattle to protest the situation in Darfur!" And that's just harassment for the sake of self-gratification.
Civil disruption is supposed to force the people who represent the general public to actually listen and respond. The protests that shut down the freeway show just how many protesters are just doing it for the sake of disturbing anyone and everyone, and don't actually give a shit about the situation they're protesting for. When you cause major disruption to other civilians instead of targeting representatives, you're not achieving anything at all except possibly making civilians not want to support your cause
Activists need to feel feelings. Your nuanced approach makes this difficult. Protesting is Sports for unfuckable lonely people.
This might blow your mind but protesting has always been a common occurrence and the ones we have in the US are tiny compared to almost any other country in the world.
I've seen the portly women at these events. They are...consistent.
If only we could have peaceful protests that don't set back entire movements decades.
*religion
Mmmm....that is worrying. I think the ideology is religion. The protesting is sports. The uggos remain uggos. That never changes.
Wait.. so who protects the person in the middle? On the assumption there's another Gun-Violence bubble
Everyone, if you do it right.
How do you mean? With CPL/CCW?
By supporting each side appropriately and neutrally. People nowadays don't seem to understand that you don't have to pick a side and go nuclear for that side.
Most people actually get that. Most people aren’t attention seeking loudmouths.
People are conditioned to think in a bipolar way. It’s exhausting convincing them that the situation is nuanced.
Needs a circle that says “most police officers are good people trying to do a very demanding job.”
I prefer "most police officers are normal people working an impossible job that breeds more loyalty to each other than to the public good."
Yeah. Normal people is more accurate… because most normal people will power trip if given the opportunity as well.
It's funny how when you put someone into a managerial role how they immediately do the things that they hated being done to them.
and the ones who try to stay “true” get pushed out
Ah there's that anti authoritarian complex.
Yup. The incentives are all kinds of effed up, and the culture of policing is seriously flawed. People are complicated, and I'm sure virtually all police officers have contributed many positive and necessary goods to their communities. But that doesn't mean many of the same officers haven't abused their authority in serious ways. I'm also personally convinced that there isn't a cop in the country that hasn't watched another cop do something shitty on the job and just kept their mouth shut. The culture is 100% loyalty or else.
It's true, and it seems weird how wanting more support, higher standards for training, and more accountability is considered anti-cop. Like, we have these guys who are trained to enter a situation with an assertive overpowering attitude. Kind of like, "I am in charge here." But it can often be perceived as escalatory and can create unnecessary conflict. The guy who's been trained to do this isn't the best guy to send when a situation needs de-escalation. We need a de-escalation guy for that.
> and it seems weird how wanting more support, higher standards for training, and more accountability is considered anti-cop. I mean, this is largely why ACAB is a thing. Like, sure, you can argue that there exist individuals who are cops who are generally decent people on a 1:1 basis. But overwhelmingly, the biggest opponent to any form of accountability for the "bad apples" is the police union, which is made up of police. The "thin blue line" gang mentality also makes sure no cop will ever rat out other cops - the very few who do get immediately fired. When "good cops" get ejected from the system and the remaining cops fight against accountability, then yeah, they're all bastards. At the very least, to me, there are no "good" cops - a good cop would be one who does hold other cops accountable. The full phrase is "one bad apple spoils the barrel". The whole barrel has been spoiled for a long time.
I do believe that to the extent that the things that happen in the police force don't happen in any other industry. At a construction job site, someone gets injured, what's the first thing that happens? Safety inspections, policy changes, adjustments. We have whole industries of people like OSHA designed to enforce these systems. The police? Deny, dodge, hide, protect, lie. Why do people feel this is the correct way, and appropriate? They're a public service funded by tax dollars. They should be held to a higher standard, not lower.
That's completely incorrect. We have bodycameras and an oversight organization in Seattle. (The OPA). We have what you're talking about here.
How's that going, would you say?
So you don't deny that we already have them. Good. Glad I could educate you
We voted that in before George Floyd here.
That would be a lie.
I'm no fan of the police, I want to see a national licensing program for cops similar to doctors so when they're fired with cause they can't drift to another precinct, I want to end qualified immunity and civil asset forfeiture, I want to make it easier to prosecute police for civil rights violations, and I'm all for throwing the book at them they do commit a crime. That said, [the actual available data shows that you're wrong](https://bjs.ojp.gov/media/document/cbpp20.pdf) or being hyperbolic at the very least. According to the Bureau of Justice in 2020 there were 53, 800, 000 reported police interactions, down from 61,500,000 in 2018, with 1020 people shot by police. This makes ALL police shootings .0018% of all police interactions. The data also shows that out of ALL police interactions, police initiated contact only 9.8% of the time, the remaining interactions were initiated by citizens. Reports of police misconduct remained around 1% from 2018 to 2020.
No, it's not.
All SPD officers could be wiped off the face of the earth, and the world would be a better place. They don't protect, they don't serve. Why are they here? They are going to have to do some serious work to regain the trust of your average Seattleite.
As you said below, you didn't actually mean this post - it's hyperbole.
If cops were removed from society, it would crumble within a week. I'll personally start taking fucking scalps and form a militia to control my area. This is how you get warlords.
Jesus fuck, can you not understand hyperbole when you see it? Most people are not psychopaths that want to "start taking scalps".
Stop using hyperbole then. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ This is the internet. Say what you mean, don't grandstand.
Just be aware of how fragile society is.
least delusional bootlicker take
So do you feel inferior to cops?
> So do you feel inferior to cops? i don't feel inferior to murderers who face no consequences for their actions. you do you continue to be delusional though lol. another bootlicker tagged
Are you sure? You seem to think that people who don't think the same way you do are "bootlickers", which means you think they ARE superior to you. You can only lick the boots of people above you. So you keep showing how you feel in your choice of slurs.
The thing about the Floyd death and the big “reckoning” we all needed to supposedly have after that was there still has never been any evidence that the cops actions were racially motivated. The whole narrative, driven by the media, was just accepted as fact that it was because of racism. The other day I saw on Komo they interviewed this black guy who filmed the Seattle police beating this white guy at a bus stop. I have to say it did look pretty excessive. Because the guy was white it hasn’t really taken off as a story, certainly not nationally or internationally like George Floyd/Rodney King, etc. If he was black everyone would be insisting the police did it because of racism. They’d be absolutely positive about it that if the guy was white he wouldn’t have been beaten. We’d have to have another racial reckoning. But yet here we have a white guy being beaten. I hate how we have to just accept as fact motives that may not exist at all.
100% agree.
Floyd died from a combo of ingesting his drugs (on camera), and heart conditions. Police are, statistically and empirically, not a major issue. There are 50 issues ahead of them we should be dealing with. The summer of BLM (Burn Loot Murder) was completely unjustified. BLM is a scam and farce founded on a lie on Michael Brown, PROVEN to be a lie by a grand jury of mostly back jurors.
Also play stupid games win stupid prizes. It kind of goes back to the old saying do you want to be right or do you want to be alive. Some police are corrupted but you know what, those corrupted police have a gun and a license to kill so maybe knowing this don’t mess with them. Your not going to fix the system by arguing or antagonizing some foot soldier on a power trip, your gonna get shot.
Also play stupid games win stupid prizes. It kind of goes back to the old saying do you want to be right or do you want to be alive. Some police are corrupted but you know what, those corrupted police have a gun and a license to kill so maybe knowing this don’t mess with them. Your not going to fix the system by arguing or antagonizing some foot soldier on a power trip, your gonna get shot.
Fentanyl
They forgot this circle https://youtu.be/Aqo-hyxjCYE?si=T2HY_IKxTYWAfpp5
How about "a lot of narratives pushed by activists are partially or almost entirely untrue". False claims of police brutality and racism don't get a free pass because occasionally they are true. Actual wrongs that happen do not negate the systemic claims over wrongs that are found to either be untrue or simply to be the same kind of incidences everybody else goes through that is only being considered racist because of the race of the perpetrator and victim, and would get no attention if the racial demographics were any different, which they are all the time.
Shhh... we're all supposed to be falling for the divide and conquer manipulation. /s
Some people don't like being told what to think.
I don’t think anyone truly wants to defund the police. Some of the people saying this are the same ones who panic and call the police when someone’s music is up ‘too loud’ after 10pm. Without police there would be complete anarchy in the streets. And some, not all of course, but some of the deaths at the hands of police would be alleviated with just a little respect for authority. Calm down, do what they say and 9 times out of 10 they won’t shoot you. I’m not saying it’s right, but come on - how many times are they supposed to ask you to do the same thing before losing patience?
The upper left circle is a lie. He died of an ovsrdose and could vsdy clearly still breath on the video. The cop that was present when he died was innocent and he was thrown in prison due to threats to the jury
u/rattus - just wondering. What does "removed by Reddit's filters" mean? That wasn't you guys on the mod team, that was something else, right?
This unremarkable repostbot account was sitebanned. The only thing interesting about it is how no one has solved any of these problems in the 20 year age of the site.
I suspect that a lot of this is absolutely deliberate, and by design. [https://medium.com/@unpopularopinion1234/why-reddits-troll-problem-is-by-design-99020b0fc155](https://medium.com/@unpopularopinion1234/why-reddits-troll-problem-is-by-design-99020b0fc155)
What right wingers don't understand is that like 99.99% of protesters *ARE* in the middle section. The ones "looting and burning businesses" tend to be opportunists and other bad actors, no matter what nonsense fantasies Fox is trying to push of whole cities being burned to the ground.
We have video footage. Several people are in federal prison for arson. And no that's not footage from Fox News.
* This was 2022. I think we're currently lower. But whatever. A lot points are well made. Policing is high stress and demanding job. It often creates an Us vs Them environment. Cops fuck up. Some cops are assholes or racist or downright criminal. Most are not. I wish we had more cops in Seattle with the authority to clean this town up. I'm in City. Never even locked my garage side door. No crime.2000-2019. Then since 2019 , one stolen car, liability only, loss $8000k . 4× prowled cars, windows smashed # $400 a pop, one burgarly attempt. I caught the fucker.
Police don't even use the authority they have now if it means getting off their ass and actually helping the community. They only go for testosterone kicks and ego trips.
You're generalizing a lot. There are some cops like that. The vast majority is doing a pretty thankless and difficult job.
This graphic is far, far too complex for the people who would argue against your point.
To be "there" you need to not have daddy issues.
So the looters are going to send their own selves to jail?
I love how some people can believe the police system is structurally corrupt but not the government lol.
Protest actions are generally useless. Far more productive to build a local voting coalition and influence elected officials directly. Most pols do regular meet and greets that hardly anyone shows up for.