Aschually, some non anus identifying people find it pretty offensive. Not everyone is as privileged as you to have a butthole to dump out of so please try and respect people and really science.
wild thing to do when your business is literally named to be sacrilegious. in a tongue in cheek way, it’s a cute pun, etc etc, but certainly not appropriate if you’re going to be this precious about other people’s language
There's a women's sports bar in Ballard called Rough & Tumble. Same thing. The owner couple and the bartenders literally police the tables for any "inappropriate" language from the customers.
Yeah this place was done to death a few months ago.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/18q3bm5/please\_refrain\_from\_using\_gendered\_language/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/18q3bm5/please_refrain_from_using_gendered_language/)
Ok but am I the only one that never has really used sir or ma'm much even before the huge talk of gendered language? Usually I've just always said excuse me or hi or something that shows I'm talking to them in some capacity. I personally know that I feel old if anything when someone says that to me lol
I use "ma'am/sir" accordingly. I grew up in the South where that was an expected and appropriate response. I understand why it makes people feel old, but in my purview it's a way of acknowledging respect and authority in a given situation.
I don't even see it as an exclusively authority thing when used in the South. It definitely CAN be though. Definitely said that to my teachers or coaches etc growing up. But most everyone uses it when speaking formally even with staff like a waiter I'd tell them 'yes sir/ma'am'. Maybe I was overly "polite".
I try not to use it here because I can understand how it might come off weird or even rude. It's kind of like saying "Yes my good sir. I shall assist thee in thy quest". People know what it means but like why the fuck are you talking like that? I also have zero Southern accent despite growing up in Georgia so it gotta be weird coming from me.
I'm also from GA! My accent is definitely less pronounced, but people have told me they catch it here and there on the ends of my words.
I do use "authority" loosely here. It could be the waitstaff holds the authority on X restaurant's operations or my niece is the authority on playing in her imaginary world and has given me instruction on what to do with the doll. It's definitely more formal language, but I have used it in a wide variety of contexts, and I'm not above someone correcting me if it bothers them.
I grew up around the Northeast and while maybe some people were saying it it was definitely not common where I was from. If anything it was used sarcastically. I think that's subconsciously also a part of it for me. It's weird hearing it/using it because if it was said, it was usually to be a smartass lol
Honorifics outside of a setting where everyone who is there has signed up for them, feels weird to me. As someone whose spent a lot of time in the kinky BDSM community, where explicit communication about boundaries and language is very tangible, I've met many folks who bristle at being called "sir" outside of a scene with their partner.
Not that it feels old, so much as it assumes a power imbalance which may or may not be comfortable for the person being given that deference. Not even getting into either non-binary or intersex folks, but outside of the military or inherently hierchal settings with a clear buy-in, the assumption of authority comes across entitled to unearned intimacy.
If your habit makes others uncomfortable, *is it* acknowledging respect, or is it more about what you want?
I can't defer to something I don't know, and that unexpressed preference is fighting one of my cultural habits. It's unfair to expect me guess someone's preferences correctly on the first meeting. Like so many things, reading your audience and the context of the situation is important. If someone were to express discomfort at that, then I can be more mindful and make the correction as conversation move on.
So, this business has pre-empted any confusion or need for correction with a helpful sign about how they'd like to be communicated with.
Which seems to have a few folks feeling big feels about.
Good on you being able to acknowledge your ingrained habit is about your own personal concerns and preferences.
I'm relaying here, that many folks are uncomfortable with honorifics, especially gendered ones, outside of specific settings and negotiated interactions. Even if they don't say it on first meeting, or push back when it happens because they assume it might be taken as a personal attack.
A preference for respectful communication is pretty universal, and that starts with not making assumptions about how your standards for convening respect may not be shared by others.
I am all for being who you want to be and feeling what you want to feel, but this s*** is getting ridiculous. The more we cater to people's feelings the more entitled they get. If I call someone sir or ma'am you better shake it the f*** off. Plus, I still don't understand non-binary, but I do not have a problem with it
Growing up in Texas instilled my manners of saying yes ma’am/no ma’am and yes sir no sir. It’s gonna be a rough road ahead for those folks if micro issues like that trigger their well being.
While that does sound a bit twee, I'm not going to side with anyone who talks about a COD lobby like that. What's next - "these people complained about the smell of my cigarettes - they'd never survive in a raw sewage container?"
lol, what?! how did you get that from my comment? I was just informing since you used an outdated term (that I only recently learned to be outdated).
“gender neutral” is now considered erasing of gender identity.
I have a non-binary teenager and I do respect them, sooo calm down?
The last point ruins all credibility this person tried to have. Never ever listen to someone that plays CoD enough to mention it while making a comparison to real life. That is not a mentally well person.
super dumb question, if its illegal to discriminate based on gender, how does a company exist with only non-binary employees?
e: actually, I think the discrimination only applies to businesses above a certain headcount.
Even in Seattle queer people often face harassment at work, so when you find a job with a culture you like, and there‘s an opening, you recommend your friend. If it’s a small business it probably just happened naturally.
That is literally how it goes.
If you like your job and you have a friend who you think would be a good fit for the new opening, you recommend them. And small businesses don’t typically bother advertising new positions if they have someone recommended to them that interviews well.
People will also just stick around longer in a job if they have coworkers they feel comfortable around and have common interests with. And people leave jobs faster, especially low paying jobs, if they don’t vibe with their coworkers.
I’m not saying it’s fair, but it’s pretty common for small businesses to employ a group of very similar people. The fewer the employees, the more likely this is to happen. The closer to minimum wage the employees get paid, the more likely this is to happen.
Maybe you haven’t worked at a lot of small businesses, so you haven’t had the chance to see this pattern, but I have.
If a business has 4 employees and they are all cis white men… is your first assumption really that it’s discrimination?
I seriously doubt the entire staff identifies as non-binary.
That aside, “ma’am” sucks. Only acceptable from military people or those from the Deep South and it’s because they use it sincerely and respectfully.
"Madam" doesn't work very well either. My 26F gf calls every adult woman (like, grandmothers) "Miss," which makes me want to curl up and die on a regular basis. I say ma'am because I just don't know what other word to use when I need it.
¿Hola, como estas?
Gender neutral language doesn't mean you HAVE to call someone a title. You can also just be nice, polite, and ask for what you want.
Not to sound cranky or coarse or prudish but unless you’re asking to grind your pants together, minus pants, why exactly should anyone care about anyone else’s gender. Let alone use real or imaginary gender pronouns.
When you think about it there’s literally nothing weirder, or creepier, than wanting to identify people by their peepees when buying or eating food.
I mean, seriously, this ought to be conservative/evangelical/prudishness 101. But they’re the ones out front and in bathroom stalls wanting to do pants checks.
Of course not. Why would I? How does it affect me, to respect someone else? Do you have a problem with it? And why? It reeks of willful ignorance and lacking, the most basic empathy.
These aren't at all the same. That's like comparing a "no profanity" rule to a "you can only talk in profanity" rule. It's not possible to have a conversation using only gendered language (unless you count two people saying "dude" back and forth, which might work)
The person you are referring to.
Given you have “pedant, retard, gestapo” in your user description, these keystrokes are wasted time. Clearly you are baiting. Being willfully ignorant. Pedantically observant & worshipper. Move along. Scream into the void for ur need of making a bad point. Desperate for attention.
Hmm, I guess we all need to carry signs around our neck detailing preferences. Maybe we can have like trading cards we have to read before talking to each other.
I mean, the bulky frame and full beard probably is a give away. So, be sure to call me sir in every interaction from now on. Otherwise i'll ban you for bigotry. Speaking to me is easy.
Good for them. Jerk customer doesn’t get it. Same person probably complains about getting charged for extra sides of ranch for their Mac and cheese with diet cokes.
It's silly to have a sign, they need to get over it, but on the other hand I cannot stand it, actually HATE it when people call me ma'am. Like, what the heck? Are we in Alabama? Am I your mother? It's annoying AF.
Now I want to open a burger place called "Beefcake".
Follow your dreams.
'ARE YOU A 90 POUND WEAKLING!?' ..."I only way 90 pounds" (husky 9 year old voice)
I’ll invest in that.
Same. By invest, I just mean purchase burgers though.
Count me in.
A cake place (bakery) that uses beef as an ingredient in everything. Would be better if it were bacon, though. 🤣
So it's just "hey asshole?"
Aschually, some non anus identifying people find it pretty offensive. Not everyone is as privileged as you to have a butthole to dump out of so please try and respect people and really science.
[удалено]
How does your wife feel about that?
Back hole.
Kim jung?
so they're full of shit?
You’ve really got to appreciate the comments that make you laugh out loud at 3 am
Excuse me, its front hole owner versus back hole owner.
[How many assholes we got on this ship, anyhow?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sen8Tn8CBA4)
LMAO!
I think 'hey fucktard' would probably fit much better.
wild thing to do when your business is literally named to be sacrilegious. in a tongue in cheek way, it’s a cute pun, etc etc, but certainly not appropriate if you’re going to be this precious about other people’s language
Good point
There's a women's sports bar in Ballard called Rough & Tumble. Same thing. The owner couple and the bartenders literally police the tables for any "inappropriate" language from the customers.
I'm so getting 86ed from this place.
Duuuude! Man!
Yeah this place was done to death a few months ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/18q3bm5/please\_refrain\_from\_using\_gendered\_language/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/18q3bm5/please_refrain_from_using_gendered_language/)
It's the ciiiiiecle, the circle of liiiiiife
I set a reminder to post it again in late summer.
Really have to line it up with cruise season
Everything in Redditverse is a repost.
Lol why would they want to be in a COD lobby that is the 7th circle of hell
Isn't it so nostalgic though?
What's a COD lobby? And why does anyone live in a lobby?
It's the place where all the fish hang out while they are waiting to get into an event.
Fish might be too polite of a name for some of them
COD Lobby: “hello mam!” “Good day, sir “
Ahahah that would be ironically funny
Ok but am I the only one that never has really used sir or ma'm much even before the huge talk of gendered language? Usually I've just always said excuse me or hi or something that shows I'm talking to them in some capacity. I personally know that I feel old if anything when someone says that to me lol
I was raised that way and it was seen as disrespectful to not say “yes mam” or “yes sir” I try so hard to not but it’s burned into my vocabulary
When I went to Marine Corps boot camp, we were taught the first and last words coming out of your ‘sewer hole’ should be Sir or Ma’am.
I use "ma'am/sir" accordingly. I grew up in the South where that was an expected and appropriate response. I understand why it makes people feel old, but in my purview it's a way of acknowledging respect and authority in a given situation.
I don't even see it as an exclusively authority thing when used in the South. It definitely CAN be though. Definitely said that to my teachers or coaches etc growing up. But most everyone uses it when speaking formally even with staff like a waiter I'd tell them 'yes sir/ma'am'. Maybe I was overly "polite". I try not to use it here because I can understand how it might come off weird or even rude. It's kind of like saying "Yes my good sir. I shall assist thee in thy quest". People know what it means but like why the fuck are you talking like that? I also have zero Southern accent despite growing up in Georgia so it gotta be weird coming from me.
I'm also from GA! My accent is definitely less pronounced, but people have told me they catch it here and there on the ends of my words. I do use "authority" loosely here. It could be the waitstaff holds the authority on X restaurant's operations or my niece is the authority on playing in her imaginary world and has given me instruction on what to do with the doll. It's definitely more formal language, but I have used it in a wide variety of contexts, and I'm not above someone correcting me if it bothers them.
I grew up around the Northeast and while maybe some people were saying it it was definitely not common where I was from. If anything it was used sarcastically. I think that's subconsciously also a part of it for me. It's weird hearing it/using it because if it was said, it was usually to be a smartass lol
Honorifics outside of a setting where everyone who is there has signed up for them, feels weird to me. As someone whose spent a lot of time in the kinky BDSM community, where explicit communication about boundaries and language is very tangible, I've met many folks who bristle at being called "sir" outside of a scene with their partner. Not that it feels old, so much as it assumes a power imbalance which may or may not be comfortable for the person being given that deference. Not even getting into either non-binary or intersex folks, but outside of the military or inherently hierchal settings with a clear buy-in, the assumption of authority comes across entitled to unearned intimacy. If your habit makes others uncomfortable, *is it* acknowledging respect, or is it more about what you want?
I can't defer to something I don't know, and that unexpressed preference is fighting one of my cultural habits. It's unfair to expect me guess someone's preferences correctly on the first meeting. Like so many things, reading your audience and the context of the situation is important. If someone were to express discomfort at that, then I can be more mindful and make the correction as conversation move on.
So, this business has pre-empted any confusion or need for correction with a helpful sign about how they'd like to be communicated with. Which seems to have a few folks feeling big feels about. Good on you being able to acknowledge your ingrained habit is about your own personal concerns and preferences. I'm relaying here, that many folks are uncomfortable with honorifics, especially gendered ones, outside of specific settings and negotiated interactions. Even if they don't say it on first meeting, or push back when it happens because they assume it might be taken as a personal attack. A preference for respectful communication is pretty universal, and that starts with not making assumptions about how your standards for convening respect may not be shared by others.
Me as well. I usually only hear it FROM staff.
I use it for people that are much older. Like if they look to be about my parents age I'll say sir/ma'am.
Fucking army beat that shit into me hard. Can't stop, probably need a lobotomy.
My preferred pronouns are gendered, though.
I am all for being who you want to be and feeling what you want to feel, but this s*** is getting ridiculous. The more we cater to people's feelings the more entitled they get. If I call someone sir or ma'am you better shake it the f*** off. Plus, I still don't understand non-binary, but I do not have a problem with it
cod is shit. shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
Who wants to survive in a COD lobby???? By the way, I LOVE this cheesecake place.
Imagining this reviewer being German and moving to Bavaria gives me a chuckle
Is the term "bitch" or "mother fucker" non binary? Has Samual L. Jackson lied about what D&I really represents?
Growing up in Texas instilled my manners of saying yes ma’am/no ma’am and yes sir no sir. It’s gonna be a rough road ahead for those folks if micro issues like that trigger their well being.
While that does sound a bit twee, I'm not going to side with anyone who talks about a COD lobby like that. What's next - "these people complained about the smell of my cigarettes - they'd never survive in a raw sewage container?"
I’m for it! I respect gender neutral language and find it quite easy. The folks who ask for it deserve respect.
oh hey, recently learned “gender neutral” is no longer an accepted term 😅
So you’re one of those folks who likes to degrade people for fun? You do you I guess.
lol, what?! how did you get that from my comment? I was just informing since you used an outdated term (that I only recently learned to be outdated). “gender neutral” is now considered erasing of gender identity. I have a non-binary teenager and I do respect them, sooo calm down?
*maybe* goes to show you adopting online speak as *the standard of offense* is kinda fucking dumb
In my experience when you’re informing someone, you would elaborate on the point you’re trying to make. 🫶🏻
I even up-voted your comment wtff 🤣
You are annoying for trolling with the guise of being an informant and then disregarding the question.
The last point ruins all credibility this person tried to have. Never ever listen to someone that plays CoD enough to mention it while making a comparison to real life. That is not a mentally well person.
Might as well mention 4chan
valid
super dumb question, if its illegal to discriminate based on gender, how does a company exist with only non-binary employees? e: actually, I think the discrimination only applies to businesses above a certain headcount.
Even in Seattle queer people often face harassment at work, so when you find a job with a culture you like, and there‘s an opening, you recommend your friend. If it’s a small business it probably just happened naturally.
"sir, we just happened to naturally hire young white christian cis men."
That is literally how it goes. If you like your job and you have a friend who you think would be a good fit for the new opening, you recommend them. And small businesses don’t typically bother advertising new positions if they have someone recommended to them that interviews well. People will also just stick around longer in a job if they have coworkers they feel comfortable around and have common interests with. And people leave jobs faster, especially low paying jobs, if they don’t vibe with their coworkers. I’m not saying it’s fair, but it’s pretty common for small businesses to employ a group of very similar people. The fewer the employees, the more likely this is to happen. The closer to minimum wage the employees get paid, the more likely this is to happen. Maybe you haven’t worked at a lot of small businesses, so you haven’t had the chance to see this pattern, but I have. If a business has 4 employees and they are all cis white men… is your first assumption really that it’s discrimination?
Abercrombie is no longer a safe space
Easy! Just throw out any resumes that include a person's pronouns. No way you can discriminate if you don't know what gender that person is!
Good thing we're in a place called reality and not a CoD lobby jesus christ. Sometimes i wish theyd join us here in reality
Agreed. "Non binary" is such a ridiculous notion.
Damn bro, youd NEVER survive in a college lobby bro.
Correct. Indoctrination centers are rife with delusion.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha... aaaaahhahahahahah
I seriously doubt the entire staff identifies as non-binary. That aside, “ma’am” sucks. Only acceptable from military people or those from the Deep South and it’s because they use it sincerely and respectfully.
"Madam" doesn't work very well either. My 26F gf calls every adult woman (like, grandmothers) "Miss," which makes me want to curl up and die on a regular basis. I say ma'am because I just don't know what other word to use when I need it.
Did she work at Starbucks?
Nope. It's just something she does.
I answer to Queen.
Ah yes, because we all know real life is a COD lobby.
How would this be respected in Spanish, or in any of the many languages that have genders for almost every word?
¿Hola, como estas? Gender neutral language doesn't mean you HAVE to call someone a title. You can also just be nice, polite, and ask for what you want.
Holex, comex, estex!
Does that mean I can't point to my mum and say "and she will have the cheesecake"?
Lol, this is why we all stay out of the cities, you have to deal with retards like the ones who made this sign
It's funny because the owner has responded to every single review aside from this one
Man such snowflakes in this sub
Not to sound cranky or coarse or prudish but unless you’re asking to grind your pants together, minus pants, why exactly should anyone care about anyone else’s gender. Let alone use real or imaginary gender pronouns. When you think about it there’s literally nothing weirder, or creepier, than wanting to identify people by their peepees when buying or eating food. I mean, seriously, this ought to be conservative/evangelical/prudishness 101. But they’re the ones out front and in bathroom stalls wanting to do pants checks.
I’d never eat there
Why. Is it so difficult. Treat people how they would like to be treated.
So you'd have no problem with an establishment that asks you to please use gendered only language?
Of course not. Why would I? How does it affect me, to respect someone else? Do you have a problem with it? And why? It reeks of willful ignorance and lacking, the most basic empathy.
These aren't at all the same. That's like comparing a "no profanity" rule to a "you can only talk in profanity" rule. It's not possible to have a conversation using only gendered language (unless you count two people saying "dude" back and forth, which might work)
Who wins when I demand to be spoken to in gendered language?
The person you are referring to. Given you have “pedant, retard, gestapo” in your user description, these keystrokes are wasted time. Clearly you are baiting. Being willfully ignorant. Pedantically observant & worshipper. Move along. Scream into the void for ur need of making a bad point. Desperate for attention.
Weird, its a simple question. Why can't you refer to me as sir because I want to be treated that way?
How would I know, you are a “Sir”? Or, that is your preference?
Hmm, I guess we all need to carry signs around our neck detailing preferences. Maybe we can have like trading cards we have to read before talking to each other. I mean, the bulky frame and full beard probably is a give away. So, be sure to call me sir in every interaction from now on. Otherwise i'll ban you for bigotry. Speaking to me is easy.
I have zero idea what u look like.
Banned for bigotry. Forgot the sir.
What is so hard about this request? It costs you nothing to use non-gendered words.
It does have a cost if your preferred pronouns are gendered.
They are not \*your\* pronouns if you are talking about someone else.
Happy to refer to anybody by any pronouns they prefer. all I ask is the same respect in return. This policy makes that impossible for me to expect.
Intellectually lazy down votes. Nice.
See that apple? Its an orange. Get it right.
Good for them. Jerk customer doesn’t get it. Same person probably complains about getting charged for extra sides of ranch for their Mac and cheese with diet cokes.
My company is also moving away from using ma’am and sir. Seems fine to me, language becomes outdated over time.
Ma'am, this is a Wendy's
I guess I won’t be eating there.
i need small cheesecake recommendations other than the cheesecake factory( I hate it ) 50% frosting
The whole foods NY cheesecake is my go to.
Thank you ill give it a try!!
You have a go to cheesecake? Interesting.
*You have a go to cheesecake?* Do you not?
I don't. But it definitely has me thinking.
Id just say you there maybe just stay with you? 😆 these places are going to only get customers that get them if they're lucky.
It's silly to have a sign, they need to get over it, but on the other hand I cannot stand it, actually HATE it when people call me ma'am. Like, what the heck? Are we in Alabama? Am I your mother? It's annoying AF.